@SergjDragunov I'm sure he knows more about FG and their future than you and he still took the job. It's a good ign where I am sitting. You probably just hoping the game fails for some reason
You can really work hard on a plain without wings. But it will still not fly. Procedural generated maps, buildable walls and a more complex economy are the wings that are missing. Players want replayability. To play on a map more than once will reduce replayability. To have no comeback options and no tools to buy time like walls can do for example also reduces the replayability. To have such a stupid simple economy where almost every unit needs the same type of resource also reduces the replayability.
@@Red-wb5jj " a more complex economy" lol what?! Are you f*cking crazy? Complex economy is what majority of playerbase hates. People dont like so much of a multitaks, they like fighting, the like basebuilding, they like make grades, but not economy.
Well, the game is funded till release. Yeah they do have to ration it, so for example they do not really have expendable funds to hire a new person for the team, unless someone else decides to step down for whatever reason, but the expenses are planned out to last till 1.0 - if the game makes more money during the early access, that would allow them to delay 1.0 further, but well, 0.1 surely didn't change their financial situation much. I'm thinking 0.3 / 0.4 - is when the game may start getting some traction again, but we'll see
The concept art for the infernal hero with the key blade(?) looks really awesome, and sets a more distinct tone than what we've seen from Infernals so far! Love what Allen is bringing to the table.
Yes, that they are and i have to say i am really impressed what I am seeing for the Infernals as someone who is interested in maining them, and can't see what Allan will do with the other factions as well. He has good vision and is highly motivated. I think the art is in good hands now. I just hope the studio gives him enough time to fix everything that can be fixed and tweek the reast.
@cameronhoss4039 i see nothing wrong with wanting them to succeed and hope that they do. I am not joining the hate train just for the hate. If they make a great game I will play it, if the dont i won't.
I definitely agree. 1vs1 and Co-op just do not cut it for me because I like team based PvP the most in these sorts of games, whether it is traditional RTS gameplay or custom game content. The Campaign is of course just as important for an RTS, but that is what will first and foremost get people invested in the game when it launches and it is content you normally play once or a couple of times for achievements and be done with it. Long term Stormgate needs 3vs3 to have a sustainable core audience of players after they are done with the Campaign. It is really the true gateway to making 1vs1 more popular. Co-op also benefits greatly from 3vs3 and the Campaign being good and it might eventually eclipse 3vs3 for really casual players once the content and mechanics are fleshed out. For me I stopped playing after having done the Campaign and done some Co-op. The lack of 3vs3 really hurts the replayability of this game. I am glad that they are still working on getting that mode done to fill that void.
@@Frozen_Death_Knight How familiar are you with SC2 coop? Cause it's leagues more polished than Stormgate is atm and still very fun imho. As SG coop gets more polished I'll keep playing it, and I hope it overtakes it eventually. It's cool how it does 3p rather than 2p as in SC2. But ye I hope SG 3v3 will get as awesome and addicting as Heroes of the Storm was for me for years. I can never get friends to play RTS with me, so this would be a way in for them.
I hate the coop 3v3 mode. Them not adding normal team games like 2v2 etc was a huge L for my friend group. We play team games on StarCraft2 and what we currently have is not it.
100% agree. That was the whole initial appeal to me when they first announced the game. Like oh, an RTS that's going to be casual-friendly where yes, sweatlords can still do their thing, but casuals can have fun as well
I'm really happy they're focusing a lot on the infernals. I've felt like they were a huge miss for me from the earliest look at them. The central conflict of the game implies that these guys are big, badass, overwhelming, and completely ruthless. Then you see them in-game and they look more like trolls, goblins, and undead, or something. I just don't get the badass demon vibe from any of their units. For the lore of the game to work, they need to feel like an overwhelming force of destruction.
its a shame that they couldnt get him from the beginning. Hopefully he has enough time to correct the train before it runs off the rails. It definitely looks and sounds like he has a vision. Before the game need to look coherent as does each race.
Really , really hoping this guy and the team has the finesse to follow through and nail this revamp. It’s just critical that they pivot from Fortnite/mobile game vibes to a universe that’s way more badass/gritty/intriguing enough to explore and care about ! I’m truly wishing them the best of luck on their journey. Great video and commentary throughout btw !
I think the first RTS that incorporates a tutorial in its campaign that actually teaches you how to play an RTS against real people is going to be the most successful. RTS games never actually teach you how to play them. They should have build orders built into the campaign and give players reminders to do certain things at certain times, like injecting with queens and hitting timing attacks in StarCraft 2. If the game just tells you to build some units and make a massive blob for every mission then you're not actually learning to play the game.
I hope they keep on improving it. I'm watching this game from time to time. Once they implement the 3v3 mode, all they have to do is invite popular streamers to play it, especially casual RTS players.
yeah in 10 years but players already moved on. 84 players peak on steam for a multiplayer game is really bad. and its free but still no one is playing.
I think, if they just change enough as they keep going, it will be enough of a promise that it will become different. Camps are a bit under utilized. They could be varied to give different perks to different factions. Played around with, for example each faction could have a power camp in close proximity to the opponents base that varies depending on which factions are being played (especially in 1v1 but could be iterated for 2v2 or 3v3) - that one player would benefit from defending, while the opponent would go for aggressing - perhaps something that gives periodic debuffs if it isn't taken down.
I love the look of that Pandora character, it seems like she has a lot of personality compared to all our Tough Soldier characters so far and our basic Nice Angel Lady and Evil Demon Man. The like, story/lore based planet-soul-sucking sphere he showed off did sound like an interesting plot element especially with his statement that it might appear in the corner of a versus map or something that could really give maps personality even on the multiplayer side. The new "Soul Well" replacement from the pig farm looks sick, as does the Hedgehog replacement. I'm NOT so sure about the Brute, I think it looks cool just waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top for the Infernal's basic infantry, I'm cool with the concepts making it in but lol probably should be toned down by release.
Definitely awesome new Infernal Art Works. I personally like the Infernals much and I'm impressed that they will do such a huge rework for them. Also the new hedgehog looks way better!
I remember at the AMA of the head of art direction before the game was revealed, I asked "Beside visual clarity, what other goals do you have with the art direction" and the answer was basically "It's really just visual clarity" Let me just say I am not surprised that they're doing a redesign.
great summary of a very lenghty video. SG really has come a long way and it's only the biggenning. Very excited about all the coming changes! Keep spreading the SG love
@@Ziegfried82 They don't have the money for that. They spent it all on some inclusive Disney voice actor (which is what RTS players really care about). The larger issue with SG is that it is just fundamentally broken. You have an entire faction (Celestials) that ignore map rules and can just fly their own base into the middle of the map.
I've always been confvinced if these guys get enough time they will make THE next RTS and successor to SC2. I just hope they have enough time and budget to do it.
Stormgate’s art direction can change as often as the developers desire, but without significant gameplay innovations, the game risks feeling stagnant. To truly captivate players, it needs deeper mechanics and features that enhance replayability and excitement. Procedurally Generated Maps Introducing procedurally generated maps would revolutionize the scouting, making it more dynamic and engaging. This approach would also vastly increase replayability, as each match would present unique challenges and opportunities. Players enjoy adapting to fresh conditions rather than memorizing static, handcrafted maps. Age of Empires 2 serves as a perfect example: its map diversity, ranging from Arabia to Nomad or Gold Rush to Black Forest or Team Islands to Arena, requires entirely different strategies and skills, keeping gameplay fresh and exciting across thousand of matches. Evolving Economy and Resources A more diverse economy system could further enrich gameplay. Imagine resources with distinct mechanics: one tied to fixed points on the map, like gold or minerals, and another that players can harvest or generate anywhere, turning the entire map into potential strategic hotspots. Such a design would shift the focus dynamically during matches, ensuring that battles and critical moments happen in varying locations. Art-wise, resources should also stand out visually, adding aesthetic appeal and aiding gameplay readability. This diversity would make every match unique and create opportunities for more complex strategies, enhancing both player experience and spectator enjoyment. Buildable Walls for Strategy and Comebacks Walls are essential for creating strategic depth in RTS games. Cheap, high-HP walls allow for defensive maneuvers, buying time, and enabling dramatic comebacks-especially in team games, where protecting allies becomes vital. Walls also influence the flow of battles, shaping chokepoints and forcing creative unit compositions. The destruction of walls can spark tense, exciting moments across the map, keeping viewers and players alike engaged. Without such a tool, gameplay risks losing variability and tactical nuance. Aiming Beyond SC2: Learning from Age of Empires 2 Stormgate aspires to be a next-generation RTS, but to surpass Starcraft 2’s appeal, it must broaden its scope. While SC2 excels in fast-paced 1v1 matches, Age of Empires 2 boasts the highest active player base in RTS history due to its unmatched gameplay diversity and robust multiplayer modes (1v1 through 4v4). Even if one personally prefers SC2, the numbers don’t lie: Age of Empires 2 has found a formula that resonates with a wider audience. Stormgate can benefit from adopting and improving upon these mechanics without losing its identity. Procedural maps, diverse resources, and walls would not make Stormgate a clone of Age of Empires, but rather a richer game that combines the best elements of various RTS titles. Embracing Innovation The success of RTS games lies in openness to innovation. Just as Stormgate borrows successful elements like early scouting from Age of Empires and player abilities from C&C Generals and AOM, it should embrace new features that foster replayability, strategic variety, and accessibility. Procedural maps, walls, and an evolved economy are not constraints-they are opportunities to craft an RTS that stands out in the modern gaming landscape. By combining the best ideas from across the genre, Stormgate can deliver the diversity, excitement, and depth that players crave. To limit its scope would be to limit its audience, ensuring it remains a niche game rather than a genre-defining masterpiece. A broader, more adaptable vision will unlock Stormgate’s true potential. Listen to the nay-sayers who like Starcraft 2 will not improve Stormgate much. They want a game like Starcraft 2 and how successful this was and is we can see. It has less active players than SC 1 and Age of Empires 2. So they have to think about if they want to build a game for a niche or they really want to build the best next gen rts possible. There are still plenty of things that differentiate Stormgate from Age of Empires. Not only the futuristic setting but also the look and feel of the units, the better technical execution, and the improved unit responsiveness make the game still feel like a Blizzard RTS. By the way, Age of Empires, like Warcraft 3, features units with higher HP, which is one reason Age of Empires has a larger player base as Starcraft 2 and why Starcraft 2 is beyond its potential. Even the developers of Stormgate knows that and that is the reason why they increase the life of all units and structures compared to Starcraft 2. But here the good parts of Age of Empires doesn't stop. There is more like the benefits of procedural generated maps, walls and a bit more different economy. There are also good things for the economy in other games like C&C. The concept of power plants that work a bit like Pylons have a big potential to create interesting mechanics and decisions during one match. Don't just think about the mechanics in other games one by one, but also be creative. Change something in a new direction to the things you take from other games. To be successful, a game needs casual players, not just professional ones. The pros will come on their own if the game is successful with the broader audience-if players not only enjoy playing it themselves but also watching others play. Seeing the same revealed maps repeatedly, already knowing how they will be played (as is typical in Blizzard RTS games), becomes very boring for viewers. It lacks the variety and surprises that make for exciting spectator experiences. Everyone opposed to these changes should carefully consider their effects: fewer players, longer queue times in ranked matches, fewer tournaments, less support, and ultimately a less developed game. Is that what you really want? Then continue to be endlessly enthusiastic about Blizzard RTS games and ignore everything other RTS games have to offer. You can dislike Age of Empires, but you can't dislike walls or procedural-generated maps, because they offer to much for the exciting gameplay and the replayability and from which game these ideas come doesn't matter. There are lot of other games with procedural generated maps and buildable walls.
Thanks for the updates as always !! I'm stilll very miuch confident that these guyz can make a great video game. we could see that from day 1. Yes, a very unfinished game but clearly, you can see that they are experienced professionnals whoknow how to make a game, howw to approach a development. Can't wait for the 1.0 somewhere in the future. It has always been clear to me that I was gonna wait for the polished version. Those who expected a lot from such an early version are just stupid, i'm sorry.
Finally! It only took them to almost fail to admit they needed a new art director. Man, everything this guy is saying is music to my ears. Let's just hope they're going to get enough time to deliver. Also gosh I hope he gets rid of trees altogether. I.e. have some other destructible object to fill their role. It could be buildings, rocks, magical walls. Anything would be better. Currently, just one glance at any map gives this sad 'warcraft 3 at home" vibe.
Hot take. battleaces has bot battles when laddering for lower leagues, stormgate should do this. My starcraft purest heart says no, however, my, I work at a high school and know plenty of kids who play clash of clans and clash royale, says we need this. I am 33, I played sc2 in beta, I had brood war as a kid, stormgate ladder is hard. If some kid hops on and get the holy shit kicked out of them and goes 0-5 they aren't playing anymore, if they even make it 5 games. I think for low leagues having a scaffolding process that it obscured is not a bad thing it had no negative affect on the hardcore crew but makes learning the game feel way less brutal especially considering the nature of 1v1. Obviously we don't want bots in masters but for new players I think it would help. Love the art changes, I have been playing SG on and off for a while and still hop on ladder I hit plat and I don't think I need bot opponents, but for maybe silver and below? What could it hurt? the bot "ai" is already there.
They should think about the base mechanic first of a race for example infernals should use blood(kill) to either become stronger or to summon better demons
I am not sure I agree with the idea of Elden Ring being more approachable as the reason it did as well as it did. It served an audience and it did so consistently and the audience got bigger. If he means that from an art standpoint though he may have a point. The souls games have some great views, but that initial one with the tree is hard to beat.
I think Tim Morton meant something else, closer to what you said. First and foremost, you need to make sure it will satisfy your core audience - e.g., the diehard soulslike fans. Only once your game is fun for them should you try to add things or tweak the formula in hopes of attracting a wider audience. Dark Souls 1-3 slowly grew a core audience for From Software. Then, when designing Elden Ring, they first made sure it will still be fun for those core fans. Only once the game worked for those did the devs start tweaking it to possibly win over a bigger, more casual crowd - as a "win-more" tactic. That way, if you fail in attracting new people, you will at least have enough sales from your core fans to keep the lights on and try again with a new project. Something like "First, make sure your product appeals to your core fans - to guarantee that at least someone likes it and buys it; to get your basic amount of sales. After that, you can try to add stuff that might appeal to more people - this is a riskier bet, but it might give you extra sales on top of your basic "core" sales".
The concept art looks definitely more interesting. One one hand, it’s an obvious improvement in terms of building up the identity of playable factions. However, the big question here is how well will these integrate into the game as actual units/heros. I am not sure about the Pandora’s Box character. Can see how it could be very clunky. The Brute concept has some WoW/HotS vibes to me. Again, whether that stays or the until will look actually more sinister, will depend on what it looks like an asset in the game. The new building concept is too simple and slick. It may look a bit nicer than what we currently have in the end, but at the same time be more dull and uninspiring. And there tends to be a focus on the simple geometric shapes - a cube or a sphere. Given these are planned to be added together with some SFX, do we need more simple geometry in the game, which has flying triangles and pyramids as units. It’s somewhat consistent, but could again not improve things overall. I loved the design on the new map. Adding more lore-oriented and atmospheric visual detail is a good idea and is a great bridge to the lore for PvP players or others not that interested in the campaign. But these is obviously a very early stage for these changes, so a lot of work will be done.
What I don't get is how there are still units just appearing out of thin air next to the buildings once they are produced. That really bothered me with SC2 already. I remember that one obscure "The Settler" RTS from 2004 or somthing, that managed to actually animate unit production. You could see the swordmen and archers practice on a training ground before leaving the barraks. The coolest thing was seeing the little metalworker melt iron, cast cannon barrels and fixing them on wheels, before they rolled out. They even animated the mold according to the size of the cannon barrel. I've never seen another RTS with that level of detail and I'm a bit frustrated that even todays developers are so lazy about that.
After playing POE2 for a bit now, I just love the more realistic and darker art directions, like diablo 4 as well. So the closer they can get to making this game from units that look like clay toys to actual fearsome demons the better!
Definitely would like them to turn the frost giant logo/maschot from a plushie into a brutish yheti. Making everything more gritty is the best thing they can do. I already love the ragdolls and gibits can't wait to see if we can reach space marine 2 levels of carnage.
the gaunts throw axes. looks like a joke, i hope they rework a lot of this art because this game could be amazing if it was more dark/mature. this guys ideas look amazing. cmon stormgate you got this!! i believe! half the game is feeling like a badass controlling cool units at your disposal
@Stormgate Central ,one thing i don't like in my opinion is the shadow not the FOW , the shadow it is too dark, its kinda not blending to the game, its a mild eyesore not also for the player but also for the spectators because the game character design is already too much so especially when both player clashing it is kinda confusing, now you planning to add 3v3. idk.
The style of what he says sounds interesting, but I still would hope they have demons like what the typical person thinks of. So make the higher demons have that type of armor, but then there's lesser demons that look more traditional with a bit of spin
The new art director will be extremely responsible. He will be responsible for Stormgate's most serious problem: design, and his last hope has become him.
Yeah so apperently Stormgate is pretty big in Korea. Mc played in StormGate League Invitational recently, the first place prize is 10M Korean won, so about 7k USD for first place - this are basically the same numbers MC was playing over back when he was known as Boss Toss back in early SC2, the venue they hired for this also looked really grand, not what you would expect looking at the play numbers
Guys, at this point it feels just like a meme to broadcast anything about that game, IT was a gigantic scam and cash grab from these Tim/Tom (i Always forget) Morten Guy, just look at how everything went, ITS an obvious scam, just crazy
It's gotta be a Stormgate or Zero Space to bring in the younger generation. Or maybe an older RTS. I have been having my oldest kid play through the Warcraft 3 campaign and that is going well. IMO, Battle Aces ain't it. It doesn't have real base building in it so it's not technically a traditional RTS. I just don't think it's gonna last. It doesn't seem deep or engaging enough to scratch the RTS itch for me and I imagine that is going to end up being true for a lot of people who are still playing RTS games. But time will tell.
You can polish shit but in the end its still be shit... The frost giant team had said that they will not change the art style, ths concept art even though cool means nothing if its applied in to the same clash of clan art style. The infernal should be a scary race and they are in concept art but their model looks like something you find in mobile games... Somebody should make a graphic modes with different artstyle models and then if everyone is using that instead of original models, the developer will finally learn what we already know.
The art is not the main problem. The gameplay is. Before Warcraft 3 came out Warcraft 2 was more like Age 2. You had 3 different resources instead of 4, you can build walls, you had water units etc. So the Blizzard formula was more like Age 2. It's time to leave the Blizzard formula again and to create something completely new. The blizzard formula is no super power or something like that. The blizzard formula also has a lot of downsides. To recognize these downsides and to make things different is key to build up successful rts. So leave the blizzard formula.
I’ll check out the new art when they get there, but if I’m being honest it’s the game’s theme that made me not like the art. I’m just not liking the sci-if/starcraft look. Trying to make their “own take” on StarCraft just doesn’t work.
if stormgates a car, it doesn't just need new paint, it needs a new engine, new body, new breaks, new wheels, heated seats, and one of those little smelly trees, we'l come back when it does
I think that's a bit unfair; the engine, wheels, and chassis are amazing - compared to all the other RTS currently being made, i feel SG has the best pathing, netcode, and engine. I often play SG 1v1 games with no noticeable lag with people as far off as norway, korea - no way i could do that in SC2
It's a farce that they even have two resources in the game. Almost everything in the game requires both resources anyway, so it makes no sense to have two resources. So where is the progression in the game design? They have learned obviously too less.
It's not as much the art style that makes this game unappealing, but the setting. SC was sci-fi. This is neither sci-fi nor normal fantasy. Humans are discount plastic Terrans and maybe-alien-demons-and-angels simply suck as a concept. Just a personal opinion.
a design made to milk money out from 5 year old chinese kids changing now to a brand new design ! made to milk money from 10 year old kids stormbait is DoA anyway, the universe is awkward and not worthy of remembering, not like other great RTS games with iconic campaigns
They try to reinvent the wheel 😂😂 they want to make better SC (wich is immpossible to to coz its perfett game last 30 years😂😂😂)and yet they make game thats warcraft 3.. Bro they are sooo lost... hope they get atleast paid at the end of this moba 😂😂😂
i really hope they get rid of the fortnite aesthetics. not every online game needs to be made to appeal to 10 year olds who only know minecraft and fortnite.
Everything the new art director was saying sounds amazing. If they can pull off that vision it will make such a huge difference.
You should feel bad for him waisting His time at that doomed studio, unlesse Morten pays him 25k a month 2 LMAO
@SergjDragunov I'm sure he knows more about FG and their future than you and he still took the job. It's a good ign where I am sitting.
You probably just hoping the game fails for some reason
@@SergjDragunov Wtf? The studio is great and they are working really hard.
You can really work hard on a plain without wings. But it will still not fly.
Procedural generated maps, buildable walls and a more complex economy are the wings that are missing. Players want replayability. To play on a map more than once will reduce replayability. To have no comeback options and no tools to buy time like walls can do for example also reduces the replayability. To have such a stupid simple economy where almost every unit needs the same type of resource also reduces the replayability.
@@Red-wb5jj " a more complex economy" lol what?! Are you f*cking crazy? Complex economy is what majority of playerbase hates. People dont like so much of a multitaks, they like fighting, the like basebuilding, they like make grades, but not economy.
If they get enough time, they will definitely make a good game. It's just not there yet but hope they get enough runway
Well, the game is funded till release. Yeah they do have to ration it, so for example they do not really have expendable funds to hire a new person for the team, unless someone else decides to step down for whatever reason, but the expenses are planned out to last till 1.0 - if the game makes more money during the early access, that would allow them to delay 1.0 further, but well, 0.1 surely didn't change their financial situation much.
I'm thinking 0.3 / 0.4 - is when the game may start getting some traction again, but we'll see
The concept art for the infernal hero with the key blade(?) looks really awesome, and sets a more distinct tone than what we've seen from Infernals so far! Love what Allen is bringing to the table.
concept art always looked amazing but ingame its a different story
Yes, that they are and i have to say i am really impressed what I am seeing for the Infernals as someone who is interested in maining them, and can't see what Allan will do with the other factions as well. He has good vision and is highly motivated. I think the art is in good hands now. I just hope the studio gives him enough time to fix everything that can be fixed and tweek the reast.
Your comment kind of reads like someone from the stormgate team larping as a fan.
@cameronhoss4039 i see nothing wrong with wanting them to succeed and hope that they do. I am not joining the hate train just for the hate. If they make a great game I will play it, if the dont i won't.
3v3 was like the whole mission in my mind. To make a social RTS experience.
Without 3v3 there'd basically be no point to this.
Is the game playable online if using cracker version?
I definitely agree. 1vs1 and Co-op just do not cut it for me because I like team based PvP the most in these sorts of games, whether it is traditional RTS gameplay or custom game content. The Campaign is of course just as important for an RTS, but that is what will first and foremost get people invested in the game when it launches and it is content you normally play once or a couple of times for achievements and be done with it.
Long term Stormgate needs 3vs3 to have a sustainable core audience of players after they are done with the Campaign. It is really the true gateway to making 1vs1 more popular. Co-op also benefits greatly from 3vs3 and the Campaign being good and it might eventually eclipse 3vs3 for really casual players once the content and mechanics are fleshed out.
For me I stopped playing after having done the Campaign and done some Co-op. The lack of 3vs3 really hurts the replayability of this game. I am glad that they are still working on getting that mode done to fill that void.
@@Frozen_Death_Knight
How familiar are you with SC2 coop?
Cause it's leagues more polished than Stormgate is atm and still very fun imho.
As SG coop gets more polished I'll keep playing it, and I hope it overtakes it eventually. It's cool how it does 3p rather than 2p as in SC2.
But ye I hope SG 3v3 will get as awesome and addicting as Heroes of the Storm was for me for years.
I can never get friends to play RTS with me, so this would be a way in for them.
I hate the coop 3v3 mode. Them not adding normal team games like 2v2 etc was a huge L for my friend group. We play team games on StarCraft2 and what we currently have is not it.
100% agree. That was the whole initial appeal to me when they first announced the game. Like oh, an RTS that's going to be casual-friendly where yes, sweatlords can still do their thing, but casuals can have fun as well
I believe in Stormgate developers! With them, good luck.
I played SG recently, the game is looking better and better
Exactly, they shoot themselves in a foot with rushed EA but base game is already quite solid.
I hope more people will give it a try again
Unfortunately, the game doesn't run well for my PC. I can play zerospace without fps issues with decent graphic settings.
I'm really happy they're focusing a lot on the infernals. I've felt like they were a huge miss for me from the earliest look at them. The central conflict of the game implies that these guys are big, badass, overwhelming, and completely ruthless. Then you see them in-game and they look more like trolls, goblins, and undead, or something. I just don't get the badass demon vibe from any of their units. For the lore of the game to work, they need to feel like an overwhelming force of destruction.
This!
Yea, the infernals really felt blobby instead of scary
Allen Dilling is the right man to put StormGate back on track.
its a shame that they couldnt get him from the beginning. Hopefully he has enough time to correct the train before it runs off the rails.
It definitely looks and sounds like he has a vision. Before the game need to look coherent as does each race.
Really , really hoping this guy and the team has the finesse to follow through and nail this revamp.
It’s just critical that they pivot from Fortnite/mobile game vibes to a universe that’s way more badass/gritty/intriguing enough to explore and care about ! I’m truly wishing them the best of luck on their journey.
Great video and commentary throughout btw !
They definitely need to go hard on the space/hell look because until now the internals just look like generic hell spawn.
I think the first RTS that incorporates a tutorial in its campaign that actually teaches you how to play an RTS against real people is going to be the most successful. RTS games never actually teach you how to play them. They should have build orders built into the campaign and give players reminders to do certain things at certain times, like injecting with queens and hitting timing attacks in StarCraft 2. If the game just tells you to build some units and make a massive blob for every mission then you're not actually learning to play the game.
Most rts players never play another human.
I hope they keep on improving it. I'm watching this game from time to time. Once they implement the 3v3 mode, all they have to do is invite popular streamers to play it, especially casual RTS players.
I really believe with enough time they can make exactly the game so many of us want. It's always improving.
yeah in 10 years but players already moved on. 84 players peak on steam for a multiplayer game is really bad. and its free but still no one is playing.
Actually, i didn't expect it, but this could truly save the game!
I think, if they just change enough as they keep going, it will be enough of a promise that it will become different.
Camps are a bit under utilized. They could be varied to give different perks to different factions. Played around with, for example each faction could have a power camp in close proximity to the opponents base that varies depending on which factions are being played (especially in 1v1 but could be iterated for 2v2 or 3v3) - that one player would benefit from defending, while the opponent would go for aggressing - perhaps something that gives periodic debuffs if it isn't taken down.
Ready for the 0.2.0 update!
I love the look of that Pandora character, it seems like she has a lot of personality compared to all our Tough Soldier characters so far and our basic Nice Angel Lady and Evil Demon Man. The like, story/lore based planet-soul-sucking sphere he showed off did sound like an interesting plot element especially with his statement that it might appear in the corner of a versus map or something that could really give maps personality even on the multiplayer side. The new "Soul Well" replacement from the pig farm looks sick, as does the Hedgehog replacement. I'm NOT so sure about the Brute, I think it looks cool just waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top for the Infernal's basic infantry, I'm cool with the concepts making it in but lol probably should be toned down by release.
Definitely awesome new Infernal Art Works. I personally like the Infernals much and I'm impressed that they will do such a huge rework for them. Also the new hedgehog looks way better!
Really hope they can make a successful game!
I love new Brute, looks great and my sc2, league of legends friends are also happy about new look of this unit! Great video like always
Let's see where this road takes us
I remember at the AMA of the head of art direction before the game was revealed, I asked "Beside visual clarity, what other goals do you have with the art direction" and the answer was basically "It's really just visual clarity"
Let me just say I am not surprised that they're doing a redesign.
great summary of a very lenghty video. SG really has come a long way and it's only the biggenning. Very excited about all the coming changes! Keep spreading the SG love
hahhaha come a long way? 84 players 24 peak on steam? come a long way? hahahaha delulu is so much dude.
They need to basically redo every single aspect of the art if they want to make it "more edgy." This is the most cartoony RTS game I have ever seen.
It's a Fortnite style and it does not work at all. It's an ugly looking game. So yeah a total redesign will go a very long way.
@@Ziegfried82 They don't have the money for that. They spent it all on some inclusive Disney voice actor (which is what RTS players really care about).
The larger issue with SG is that it is just fundamentally broken. You have an entire faction (Celestials) that ignore map rules and can just fly their own base into the middle of the map.
The infernal brute was my favorite design choice both game-play and design wise.
Vanguard vehicles in a metal slug style might look cool
I love the idea of what he said about how they're reimagining the Infernals. Shifting from a Warcraft inspiration towards a more Diablo inspiration.
Turning up the Cool Factor is gonna be huge.
very positive! not sure if it will be enough to make the game a big success, but I'm hopeful
I've always been confvinced if these guys get enough time they will make THE next RTS and successor to SC2. I just hope they have enough time and budget to do it.
Got pc recently to start playing lol and stormgate new art direction looks great.
Stormgate’s art direction can change as often as the developers desire, but without significant gameplay innovations, the game risks feeling stagnant. To truly captivate players, it needs deeper mechanics and features that enhance replayability and excitement.
Procedurally Generated Maps
Introducing procedurally generated maps would revolutionize the scouting, making it more dynamic and engaging. This approach would also vastly increase replayability, as each match would present unique challenges and opportunities. Players enjoy adapting to fresh conditions rather than memorizing static, handcrafted maps. Age of Empires 2 serves as a perfect example: its map diversity, ranging from Arabia to Nomad or Gold Rush to Black Forest or Team Islands to Arena, requires entirely different strategies and skills, keeping gameplay fresh and exciting across thousand of matches.
Evolving Economy and Resources
A more diverse economy system could further enrich gameplay. Imagine resources with distinct mechanics: one tied to fixed points on the map, like gold or minerals, and another that players can harvest or generate anywhere, turning the entire map into potential strategic hotspots. Such a design would shift the focus dynamically during matches, ensuring that battles and critical moments happen in varying locations. Art-wise, resources should also stand out visually, adding aesthetic appeal and aiding gameplay readability. This diversity would make every match unique and create opportunities for more complex strategies, enhancing both player experience and spectator enjoyment.
Buildable Walls for Strategy and Comebacks
Walls are essential for creating strategic depth in RTS games. Cheap, high-HP walls allow for defensive maneuvers, buying time, and enabling dramatic comebacks-especially in team games, where protecting allies becomes vital. Walls also influence the flow of battles, shaping chokepoints and forcing creative unit compositions. The destruction of walls can spark tense, exciting moments across the map, keeping viewers and players alike engaged. Without such a tool, gameplay risks losing variability and tactical nuance.
Aiming Beyond SC2: Learning from Age of Empires 2
Stormgate aspires to be a next-generation RTS, but to surpass Starcraft 2’s appeal, it must broaden its scope. While SC2 excels in fast-paced 1v1 matches, Age of Empires 2 boasts the highest active player base in RTS history due to its unmatched gameplay diversity and robust multiplayer modes (1v1 through 4v4). Even if one personally prefers SC2, the numbers don’t lie: Age of Empires 2 has found a formula that resonates with a wider audience. Stormgate can benefit from adopting and improving upon these mechanics without losing its identity. Procedural maps, diverse resources, and walls would not make Stormgate a clone of Age of Empires, but rather a richer game that combines the best elements of various RTS titles.
Embracing Innovation
The success of RTS games lies in openness to innovation. Just as Stormgate borrows successful elements like early scouting from Age of Empires and player abilities from C&C Generals and AOM, it should embrace new features that foster replayability, strategic variety, and accessibility. Procedural maps, walls, and an evolved economy are not constraints-they are opportunities to craft an RTS that stands out in the modern gaming landscape. By combining the best ideas from across the genre, Stormgate can deliver the diversity, excitement, and depth that players crave.
To limit its scope would be to limit its audience, ensuring it remains a niche game rather than a genre-defining masterpiece. A broader, more adaptable vision will unlock Stormgate’s true potential.
Listen to the nay-sayers who like Starcraft 2 will not improve Stormgate much. They want a game like Starcraft 2 and how successful this was and is we can see. It has less active players than SC 1 and Age of Empires 2. So they have to think about if they want to build a game for a niche or they really want to build the best next gen rts possible.
There are still plenty of things that differentiate Stormgate from Age of Empires. Not only the futuristic setting but also the look and feel of the units, the better technical execution, and the improved unit responsiveness make the game still feel like a Blizzard RTS. By the way, Age of Empires, like Warcraft 3, features units with higher HP, which is one reason Age of Empires has a larger player base as Starcraft 2 and why Starcraft 2 is beyond its potential. Even the developers of Stormgate knows that and that is the reason why they increase the life of all units and structures compared to Starcraft 2. But here the good parts of Age of Empires doesn't stop. There is more like the benefits of procedural generated maps, walls and a bit more different economy. There are also good things for the economy in other games like C&C. The concept of power plants that work a bit like Pylons have a big potential to create interesting mechanics and decisions during one match. Don't just think about the mechanics in other games one by one, but also be creative. Change something in a new direction to the things you take from other games.
To be successful, a game needs casual players, not just professional ones. The pros will come on their own if the game is successful with the broader audience-if players not only enjoy playing it themselves but also watching others play. Seeing the same revealed maps repeatedly, already knowing how they will be played (as is typical in Blizzard RTS games), becomes very boring for viewers. It lacks the variety and surprises that make for exciting spectator experiences.
Everyone opposed to these changes should carefully consider their effects: fewer players, longer queue times in ranked matches, fewer tournaments, less support, and ultimately a less developed game. Is that what you really want? Then continue to be endlessly enthusiastic about Blizzard RTS games and ignore everything other RTS games have to offer.
You can dislike Age of Empires, but you can't dislike walls or procedural-generated maps, because they offer to much for the exciting gameplay and the replayability and from which game these ideas come doesn't matter. There are lot of other games with procedural generated maps and buildable walls.
Thanks for the updates as always !! I'm stilll very miuch confident that these guyz can make a great video game. we could see that from day 1. Yes, a very unfinished game but clearly, you can see that they are experienced professionnals whoknow how to make a game, howw to approach a development. Can't wait for the 1.0 somewhere in the future. It has always been clear to me that I was gonna wait for the polished version. Those who expected a lot from such an early version are just stupid, i'm sorry.
Finally! It only took them to almost fail to admit they needed a new art director. Man, everything this guy is saying is music to my ears. Let's just hope they're going to get enough time to deliver.
Also gosh I hope he gets rid of trees altogether. I.e. have some other destructible object to fill their role. It could be buildings, rocks, magical walls. Anything would be better.
Currently, just one glance at any map gives this sad 'warcraft 3 at home" vibe.
Getting closer and closer to the graphic quality of an other RTS from 2010
Hot take. battleaces has bot battles when laddering for lower leagues, stormgate should do this. My starcraft purest heart says no, however, my, I work at a high school and know plenty of kids who play clash of clans and clash royale, says we need this. I am 33, I played sc2 in beta, I had brood war as a kid, stormgate ladder is hard. If some kid hops on and get the holy shit kicked out of them and goes 0-5 they aren't playing anymore, if they even make it 5 games. I think for low leagues having a scaffolding process that it obscured is not a bad thing it had no negative affect on the hardcore crew but makes learning the game feel way less brutal especially considering the nature of 1v1. Obviously we don't want bots in masters but for new players I think it would help.
Love the art changes, I have been playing SG on and off for a while and still hop on ladder I hit plat and I don't think I need bot opponents, but for maybe silver and below? What could it hurt? the bot "ai" is already there.
They should think about the base mechanic first of a race for example infernals should use blood(kill) to either become stronger or to summon better demons
I am not sure I agree with the idea of Elden Ring being more approachable as the reason it did as well as it did. It served an audience and it did so consistently and the audience got bigger. If he means that from an art standpoint though he may have a point. The souls games have some great views, but that initial one with the tree is hard to beat.
I think Tim Morton meant something else, closer to what you said. First and foremost, you need to make sure it will satisfy your core audience - e.g., the diehard soulslike fans. Only once your game is fun for them should you try to add things or tweak the formula in hopes of attracting a wider audience.
Dark Souls 1-3 slowly grew a core audience for From Software. Then, when designing Elden Ring, they first made sure it will still be fun for those core fans. Only once the game worked for those did the devs start tweaking it to possibly win over a bigger, more casual crowd - as a "win-more" tactic. That way, if you fail in attracting new people, you will at least have enough sales from your core fans to keep the lights on and try again with a new project.
Something like "First, make sure your product appeals to your core fans - to guarantee that at least someone likes it and buys it; to get your basic amount of sales. After that, you can try to add stuff that might appeal to more people - this is a riskier bet, but it might give you extra sales on top of your basic "core" sales".
The concept art looks definitely more interesting. One one hand, it’s an obvious improvement in terms of building up the identity of playable factions. However, the big question here is how well will these integrate into the game as actual units/heros. I am not sure about the Pandora’s Box character. Can see how it could be very clunky. The Brute concept has some WoW/HotS vibes to me. Again, whether that stays or the until will look actually more sinister, will depend on what it looks like an asset in the game.
The new building concept is too simple and slick. It may look a bit nicer than what we currently have in the end, but at the same time be more dull and uninspiring.
And there tends to be a focus on the simple geometric shapes - a cube or a sphere. Given these are planned to be added together with some SFX, do we need more simple geometry in the game, which has flying triangles and pyramids as units. It’s somewhat consistent, but could again not improve things overall.
I loved the design on the new map. Adding more lore-oriented and atmospheric visual detail is a good idea and is a great bridge to the lore for PvP players or others not that interested in the campaign.
But these is obviously a very early stage for these changes, so a lot of work will be done.
What I don't get is how there are still units just appearing out of thin air next to the buildings once they are produced. That really bothered me with SC2 already. I remember that one obscure "The Settler" RTS from 2004 or somthing, that managed to actually animate unit production. You could see the swordmen and archers practice on a training ground before leaving the barraks. The coolest thing was seeing the little metalworker melt iron, cast cannon barrels and fixing them on wheels, before they rolled out. They even animated the mold according to the size of the cannon barrel. I've never seen another RTS with that level of detail and I'm a bit frustrated that even todays developers are so lazy about that.
After playing POE2 for a bit now, I just love the more realistic and darker art directions, like diablo 4 as well. So the closer they can get to making this game from units that look like clay toys to actual fearsome demons the better!
Use Ori and the Will of the Wisps as an atmosphere reference. It would suit the game's vibe.
Definitely would like them to turn the frost giant logo/maschot from a plushie into a brutish yheti. Making everything more gritty is the best thing they can do. I already love the ragdolls and gibits can't wait to see if we can reach space marine 2 levels of carnage.
Previous infernals: Pixar Zergs.
I really hope this game is gonna be a success. I'm a SC2 player, and the less macro type of games SG offers is great I think.
much better than current iteration of gfx. I dont know what they thought when they designed current beta gfx.
Allen is another Blizzard legend, he's been around since before WoW. Very excited for him to join the team
I think I might give the game another chance because of the new brute alone
Same, the artstyle in the concepts is much more exciting than another hero or 3v3 mode rn
the gaunts throw axes. looks like a joke, i hope they rework a lot of this art because this game could be amazing if it was more dark/mature. this guys ideas look amazing. cmon stormgate you got this!! i believe! half the game is feeling like a badass controlling cool units at your disposal
@Stormgate Central ,one thing i don't like in my opinion is the shadow not the FOW , the shadow it is too dark, its kinda not blending to the game, its a mild eyesore not also for the player but also for the spectators because the game character design is already too much so especially when both player clashing it is kinda confusing, now you planning to add 3v3. idk.
The style of what he says sounds interesting, but I still would hope they have demons like what the typical person thinks of. So make the higher demons have that type of armor, but then there's lesser demons that look more traditional with a bit of spin
Owned fire whoever came up with the current art style. Shame shame
The new art director will be extremely responsible. He will be responsible for Stormgate's most serious problem: design, and his last hope has become him.
It was the only Stormgate interview I wanted to hear the most and it was the most pleasant and uplifting one.
Final they see that hedgehog is shitty
Very promising changes.
0:15, _the_ MC? He's still around? Cool! The changes looks really interesing and spot on!
Yeah so apperently Stormgate is pretty big in Korea. Mc played in StormGate League Invitational recently, the first place prize is 10M Korean won, so about 7k USD for first place - this are basically the same numbers MC was playing over back when he was known as Boss Toss back in early SC2, the venue they hired for this also looked really grand, not what you would expect looking at the play numbers
Guys, at this point it feels just like a meme to broadcast anything about that game, IT was a gigantic scam and cash grab from these Tim/Tom (i Always forget) Morten Guy, just look at how everything went, ITS an obvious scam, just crazy
3:31 why is the vision of this new IP basically another game? lol
I’d say SG was wrong from conception.
It's gotta be a Stormgate or Zero Space to bring in the younger generation. Or maybe an older RTS. I have been having my oldest kid play through the Warcraft 3 campaign and that is going well.
IMO, Battle Aces ain't it. It doesn't have real base building in it so it's not technically a traditional RTS. I just don't think it's gonna last. It doesn't seem deep or engaging enough to scratch the RTS itch for me and I imagine that is going to end up being true for a lot of people who are still playing RTS games. But time will tell.
Finaly!! I think the art style is one of the biggest problems with this game if you want people to even consider playing it.
The game is looking better a d better. I really hope they willmput the same amount of effort to make the game nore fun!
You can polish shit but in the end its still be shit... The frost giant team had said that they will not change the art style, ths concept art even though cool means nothing if its applied in to the same clash of clan art style. The infernal should be a scary race and they are in concept art but their model looks like something you find in mobile games... Somebody should make a graphic modes with different artstyle models and then if everyone is using that instead of original models, the developer will finally learn what we already know.
SO MUCH BETTER
remove creep!
The art is not the main problem. The gameplay is.
Before Warcraft 3 came out Warcraft 2 was more like Age 2. You had 3 different resources instead of 4, you can build walls, you had water units etc.
So the Blizzard formula was more like Age 2. It's time to leave the Blizzard formula again and to create something completely new. The blizzard formula is no super power or something like that. The blizzard formula also has a lot of downsides. To recognize these downsides and to make things different is key to build up successful rts. So leave the blizzard formula.
Great move
i hate that infernals felt like space orcs. the more infierno they got on their identity the better.
I’ll check out the new art when they get there, but if I’m being honest it’s the game’s theme that made me not like the art. I’m just not liking the sci-if/starcraft look. Trying to make their “own take” on StarCraft just doesn’t work.
Problems i have with stormgate run deeper than artstyle
The fact that it is scifi with wc3 mechanics just doesnt work for me
if stormgates a car, it doesn't just need new paint, it needs a new engine, new body, new breaks, new wheels, heated seats, and one of those little smelly trees, we'l come back when it does
I think that's a bit unfair; the engine, wheels, and chassis are amazing - compared to all the other RTS currently being made, i feel SG has the best pathing, netcode, and engine. I often play SG 1v1 games with no noticeable lag with people as far off as norway, korea - no way i could do that in SC2
Brakes
tell me you're not a developer without telling me you're not a developer lmfao
@@user-ur4nl6dq2x sgree engine feels great when it comes to unit interactions
Developer? Dont need to be a developer to see the game is a dud
dont give up
It's a farce that they even have two resources in the game. Almost everything in the game requires both resources anyway, so it makes no sense to have two resources. So where is the progression in the game design? They have learned obviously too less.
Infernals are a joke now they are more like orcs and barbarians than demons lol with their 'meat farms' and 'axe throwers'
100% agree, that would've been okay in wc3 setting, but even than undead and orca look more sophisticated
It's not as much the art style that makes this game unappealing, but the setting. SC was sci-fi. This is neither sci-fi nor normal fantasy. Humans are discount plastic Terrans and maybe-alien-demons-and-angels simply suck as a concept. Just a personal opinion.
Hi. If you're looking for others RTS I may get you a key for the demo of Santuraty. You just have to dm me I'm the CM of the discord of the game
celestrial is so angly i quit the game when i saw them. If they remove celestrial i am back for sure i cant watch them is pain for me.
I totally agree, one of the reasons I didn't continue playing
they have more chance if they start a completely new game with their engine, this game is doomed and everybody hates it
I don't like forced shaders
a design made to milk money out from 5 year old chinese kids changing now to a brand new design ! made to milk money from 10 year old kids
stormbait is DoA anyway, the universe is awkward and not worthy of remembering, not like other great RTS games with iconic campaigns
They try to reinvent the wheel 😂😂 they want to make better SC (wich is immpossible to to coz its perfett game last 30 years😂😂😂)and yet they make game thats warcraft 3..
Bro they are sooo lost... hope they get atleast paid at the end of this moba 😂😂😂
Please make a robotnl scorpion race with different winning condition
For me, the story, not the art, is unappealing.
84 players peak on steam right now hahaha this game is a pure joke. devs are jokes.
Art change : delete celestial and create an authentic and coherent interesting race
I wish they looked more like diablo angels, without this awkard SF toyish vibe.
Actually infernal host lol celestial are cool
i really hope they get rid of the fortnite aesthetics. not every online game needs to be made to appeal to 10 year olds who only know minecraft and fortnite.
I just wanted to say that this game looks ugly, stylistically. What happened to the talents that made broodwar & WC3?
Lip stick on a pig. Lol