It’s all a matter of perspective. Last year I bought a 2023 Road Glide 107. It has about double the hp and probably triple the torque of my old bike. While everyone is telling me “you need this cam” or “you need this big bore kit”, I’m thrilled with the power I have now. Reliability is more important than high hp gains, riding miles and miles with no problems is worth it to me. Everyone should build their bike for them, not to impress others.
Your correct, 107 M8 will run and run for a long time without major problems, My 131 M8 makes a lot of HP and a LOT OF HEAT 😢. My Son's 107 M8 is truly a more enjoyable ride and no excessive heat.
I have an '18 107 Road Glide and I rarely twist the throttle more than 1/4 turn or rev past 3500 RPMs. I put money into comfort and suspension instead of Stages.
@@adamsandoval Adam, I congratulate you on your success in all of your Businesses that allow you afford to spend $60,000.00 on your new bike. I have to laugh at your experience with your $5,000.00 Harley that breaks down all the time. It looks like you got your new Expensive Toy out again. Did you realize that you can buy most any other Brand of Motorcycle and stock it will run better and handle better than Harley's do with the exception of the Pan America. I was thinking about buying a Yamaha V-Max that has 185 HP with decent handling and braking, plus very reliable but it only gets about 32 MPG or less with shaft drive. As a Tribute to Eric Buell and the Buell Brand that HD spent $116 Million to Kill I bought a 2008 Buell Ulyesses for $4,500.00 in 2022. It had 15,000 miles in it. The tires were hard as a rock and a rear wheel bearing went out. Online I found out that Buell upgraded from two small wheel bearings to three larger wheel bearings and I found the wheel , bearings and axle kit for a Surplus warehouse for with tax and shipping about $800.00 .. Now I don't have to worry about rear wheel bearing failures on a long trip. I supposed I should buy a spare belt next. My 2008 Buell has an Italian Frame and switchgear. German Luggage.. Japanese Showa Suspension that is adjustable and works just fine, and Chinese wheels. I paid $4,500.00 for it plus during Biden's Fuel price issues spent $700.00 fuel for my pickup and for the bike to get it back from Souix Falls SD to Michigan. Stock the 74 CI Buell is supposed to be 103 HP So far I have left every Harley I have encounter in the dust on a twisty road. The Buell has a wide comfortable seat that I can ride all day on. It has wide handle bars like a dirt bike.. It has aggressive Mid controls. So far I have not been beaten by an HD on the street in a drag race. At the Drag strip where were HD's with wheelie bars ect that were faster than me. My Problem was with the short wheel base I was doing huge wheelies. So I could not take off hard. I ran 12.77 at 107 MPH in the 1/4 mile. I am happy I bought the Buell to prove a point that Buell's were so Superior to HD's My Buell was $12,000 in 2008. My Yamaha FZ-07 was $7,400 on the road in 2017.. I have another $2,000 into luggage .. plus a windscreen .. crash bars and $650.00 into Ohlin Cartridges to make it handle like it should and $450 for a K-Tech rear shock . My Yamaha Needed Suspension upgrades and the Buell did not. The Buell gets about 43 MPG on 93 Octane and the Yamaha gets about 52 MPG on 87 Octane $1.00 per gallon cheaper gas. Riding with a HOG chapter at 55 MPH max I got 63 MPG ..
Torque is where it's at. I have a Heritage 114 and an Ultra Limited 114. I've put torque cams in both (with a good air cleaner and pipes, of course). I love having that torque when I need it, around 3000 rpm. The other day, when my wife and I were on my recently traded Road Glide 114 (also with a torque cam), a Mustang GT pulled up next to me at a red light. He gunned his engine. I gunned my mine. The light changed, and I watched him in my rear view mirror. He had gobs more HP than me, but my high thrust/weigh and torque, clobbered him. In the quarter mile, torque beats horsepower [almost] every time. With the EPA mandated speed limiters, you'll never really benefit from high horsepower anyway. Good video. I agree with all of your points.
Horsepower is a unit of power. Power does matter. If your bike doesn't make it, it won't move. You bike makes power across the rev range or you wouldn't have a rev range. What doesn't matter is the *peak* power they sell you to market bikes. Well, it doesn't matter if you're not trying to lower lap times. For those of us riding on the street it doesn't matter as we are very seldom riding at the rpm to get to the engine's peak power delivery.
I’m always going into these conversations like here we go again, but honestly this is the first one I’ve seen in a long time someone actually emphasizing the importance of balancing out the bike. And for that, thank you.
You're NOT wrong, in fact I would say your spot on!! Setting up the bike for the person who is riding it and not a machine in a shop will always make for a better ride.
Nailed it! However, there is a market for everything. If consumers are anxious to spend money, someone will be glad to make something to take it lol. Call me boring, but I'll keep my engine stock and use the savings on travel experiences.
Perfectly said! Get your a** on some class! No one should ever buy a harley for horsepower, buy a sport bike for that. Harley has and should always be bought four cruising, touring, and looking good while doing it. They are the most customizable bike on the road. I think people forget the history and lifestyle of what harley is. In my mid 40s, makes me sad to see some of that disappear, but I still see people trying to hang on to the nostalgia of what harley-davidson is! Younger peeps, do your homework and listen to Adam.
Onee of your best Adam. Good job. I have this conversation with friends all the time about how much HP they're putting down and how fast they are. I remind them that in rush hour traffic they going as fast as I am on my bike. LOL
I agree with you 100% great topic! Sometimes I get tired of the "what's the numbers" conversation! Not many people talk about how hot bikes run and problems they have had mechanically along the way either. I want performance and comfort plus reliability for long distance trips!
I agree Adam! Well said! I am 6'6" and 90% of what I have done to my 2021 Road Glide Special is for my personal comfort. Legend Revo A 13" rear shocks, custom made saddle, forward floor boards with extended shifter and brake, taller wind screen. I did do a stage 1 but nothing else to the engine. I have plenty of HP and Torque and with my bike set up for comfort I can routinely ride 400-500 miles in a day without much difficulty. Back in August I rode from Gatlinburg TN to my home in Western Ma in one day-900 Miles! Being comfortable, having fun and being in the wind are all that really matters(IMHO) HP is just a number...
Agreed Adam, that Horsepower is not the only gating factor, but for my Honda CB75'0's on Rt 95 in New England, it affords the ability to avoid aggressive traffic. Folks use to be polite years back, but these days, you have sometimes a momentum of 80+ mph for the herd with aggressive drivers weaving in and across lanes at 100+ mph. One must be alert to and know how to dodge these guys like meteorites - Further when needing to enter the highway, folks simply are not neighborly. It is about top speed, and also acceleration to that top speed - About having fun - well that's the luxury reserved mostly for newer bikes, although recently I have had less mishaps with my 45 year old Beauty. She and Babe her peer are 600lb bikes. They have been buffed and have about 98hp, and without helmets will peel your cheeks back under acceleration. Still, Beauty and i got time together and endless adventure stories to share - like drag racing at the beach in bathing suits with ones girlfriend hanging on, when I was a dumb kid. Full Face helmets were not invented then , and I did not use helmets then either - real dumb - now I look like a spaceman when I ride - On Country rides like yesterday, Only time Horses were needed was to leave a tail gaiter on a country road, where normally would cruse at 30-40 mph. The One thing a pretty Harley has over my bikes is riding comfort, where I figure you can ride for about 3 hours, where I like to dismount hourly for a stretch. Still, comeback to New England, and we can do Rt 7 to Limerock next season if you like -
I agree. So many ppl are chasing that number. That power number makes no difference if you can’t get it to the wheels. Plus in my years of working on cars/motorcycles, the more hp you make, usually the less reliable it becomes.✌️
Years ago I had a foxbody mustang. Built 306, big cam, trickflow heads and intake. Mean sounding!! I raced another foxbody with just a bolt on exhaust, and I was beaten by a car and half. I was spinning most of the time. Spinning ain’t winning, and if you can’t put all that power to the ground…at the end of the day all you have is a vehicle that feels like it’s on ice all the time. While fun, it’s not winning races. ✌️
I was just talking about this with a guy I was riding with. I have a 16 Road Glide Ultra 103 and he has a 23 Fast Johnnie Road Glide (I think 117). I couldn't keep up with him on the straight aways but then the traffic started building and we were working those bikes but got through it. After we stopped, I told him my bike may be older but I was doing my best to keep up and my bike handled well, it helps I upgraded with a full Fox Suspension system, handling is so much more responsive with it. He responded with, horsepower doesn't matter when the person riding doesn't know how to manipulate it. Definitely got me thinking, I know my bike and I know the response of what I want to do and what it can do. I may be in a lower gear to keep up but it's more than just twisting a throttle. Either way we had a great ride and I do love my bike but there is also a thrill when you have a large displacement bike and you hammer down with instant response to increase speed. I'll probably just do a minor cam swap to just get that pull at higher speeds when I need to pass someone and already going 80-90.
I have a 2020 Road Glide and this is the first one I didn't do any major engine work to just air cleaner and pipes with tuner. First one I did a full suspension system on and from now on that's the first thing I will do. Unbelievable how the bike rides. I totally agree with what you have said.
A couple of months ago my bike got totaled. I finally got my check from my insurance company. Monday I looked at a 2021 street glide special. Tomorrow is the test ride. It's been cool in central Ohio but this weekend is gonna be nice. Watching this video makes me want to get my bike tonight. I can't wait.
Torque equals comfort. Passing power is king. If I can pass with a twist of the throttle, instead of having to downshift, that’s more comfort and less fatigue. But it’s nice to be able to drop a gear or two and get that extra punch.
Never understood people saying passing power without downshifting. If you drive an automatic car it will always downshift to pass. Why wouldn't you want to put your engine in the proper rev range for max torque when passing?
@@Dave-sw2dm you don’t understand torque, or you don’t understand my statement. Most engines reach max torque far below max horsepower. If you’re on a long straightaway, do you go for broke every time you pass? My bike has over 90 lbs/ft of torque and 145 horsepower. I can pass quicker in 5th gear than most cars with an automatic that downshifts. It’s not a race. I just want to pass comfortably.
@@Ronzola1 , why did you mention the horsepower your engine puts out when you say it is the torque that matters? Where in the rev range are you putting out max torque? If you are in 6th gear what RPMs are you cruising at? Oh, is your bike only a 5 speed? You wont accelerate quicker by downshifting? Just sounds like a lazy rider trying to justify dumping $10k into their engine.
@@Dave-sw2dm I’m not justifying anything. Did you not read my original post? I said it’s nice to be able to drop a gear or two. If I feel like it, I will. I’m not a kid anymore. I’ve ridden over the years, more than 200,000 miles. If you interpret my preference for passing, using the torque that is ready and waiting at all times as being lazy, then that’s your problem. I have nothing to prove and nothing I need to explain to someone who seems to be trolling. I have my opinion and you have yours. Are you trolling Adam too? We are of the same opinion.
@@Ronzola1 , your post reminds me of my Mustang GT manual test ride. The salesman said I could pretty much leave it in 5th gear because it had so much power. I told him that is a negative for me. I want to have to work the gearbox to keep the engine in the powerband. That is how I feel about motorcycles. Give me enough power to run the interstate an exit or two to get to the next fun road but not so much power that I dont have to downshift to climb that hill or pass someone. Might as well buy an automatic Goldwing. If you are riding a Harleynwith those HP numbers you are riding a modified bike.
I have a 2012 ultra. I have a blueprinted 117 with a 7 speed Baker and bulletproof primary. 125 ftlb torque about same hp. With that Baker, it pulls so nice through the 1st 4 gears with all that torque. At 1300 lbs, fully loaded, it is very smooth and rolls through the mountains with ease. Torque is king!!!
I think anyone who's done a fair amount of touring knows that horsepower is not very important when you're doing 400 to 500 miles a day. Just cruising at highway speeds doesn't require much HP. Torque is more prevalent in most situations. Different styles of riding cause for different needs for different bikes. For me lean angle is important, while I like to be comfortable on a big cruiser riding down highway 1 in Cali, I do wish they had more clearance. So I take my Concours 14 out for the twisties. But rarely use the 164 horsepower it comes with.
The torque on my stock 107 M8 powered Sport Glide was more than enough, from the high compression long stroke under bore HD engine design. A 695# bike doesn't hurt, either, with torque figures like that. The 615# BMW R1250 RT touring bike that replaced it, is down on torque, at only 105 ft lbs, but the lighter weight more than offsets it. Plus how it tours and how it handles in the twisties is superior. Yes, I miss that rumble and torque right off of idle of the long stroke motor on the HD, but I don't miss servicing 3 holes to drain every 5000 miles and 7 qts needed vs drain 1 universal reservoir with 4 liters, that serves all 3 parts every 6200 miles, instead on the BMW.
Torque is more important than hp. I have a hot V111 in a 98 roadking and a mild near stock tc88 in a 99 roadking. The 99 has plenty of power for most riding. It doesn't have enough power to comfortably run a 6th gear, if it had one. The 98 does have a 6 speed and it is definitely more fun to ride than the 99. One bad thing is the 98 runs much hotter temperature-wise than the 99. I ride wearing shorts (on short rides) so the engine temperature is important to me. The larger the displacement the more heat there will be, that's just physics. Reliability is the most important thing if you plan to tour. I ride alone most of the time so I need reliability. Your bars look cool but I prefer apes. Very comfortable to me and makes carving curvy roads so easy. Many suspension upgrades as well. You have great points in your video.
Adam I agree with you 100%. I would trade a lot of horsepower for torque and a smooth ride any day. I would rather upgrade the suspension rather than upgrade the engine for more speed. Sometimes you can whip up on the big boys with a smaller engine if you have the right gear ratio. My personal opinion, the only thing speed gets you is a quicker death sentence if not a bigger ticket!
Good video focusing on many things being needed besides just the horsepower number, which as you pointed out doesn't mean much to most bagger riders except as a number to brag about while NOT moving. Warning: long comment ahead! I agree that "horsepower doesn't matter" for the vast majority of heavy bagger riders. Lots of bagger riders like to lug the big twin engine because it sounds good to them. They may be making lots of torque, but at 3000 RPM the Harley big twin is NOT making high horsepower. And that's OK because they don't really need to run high RPM on the street or road. High torque is what they need, to get the big bike moving from a stop, or get it moving faster while rolling down the road. I've ridden with lots of other bagger riders, and I can tell from the sound of their exhaust that they are not turning high RPM... thus, they are not making high horsepower. It's not physically possible. Here's why... Torque is a simple number that is the twisting force generated by the engine. It follows a curve governed primarily by the cam profile - and also by other engine factors like the intake and exhaust, the flow allowed by the heads, the volumetric efficiency (VE), and the AFR ratio at all RPMs... the TUNE. Without a good tune you're not going to make good torque. The cam (or cams in a Twin Cam) also govern(s) the torque profile. Engines are basically air pumps, and the torque produced at various RPMs always varies. For big baggers, you generally want a "flat" cam profile - one that will enable the engine to produce lots of torque starting at a relatively low RPM and continuing to produce lots of torque as the RPM increases, up to a point where it inevitably begins to fall off. All torque curves will rise to a peak as RPM rises, and then fall off at some point. Horsepower is a number calculated as: (Torque * RPM) / 5252. Horsepower is basically torque measured over a period of time to do work, and it can ONLY increase if the RPM increases. That's literally the definition of horsepower. You CANNOT make high horsepower unless you have high RPM. Period. Many bagger riders never rev their engine much past 3500 RPM, and so they never make high horsepower, but their engines make tons of torque, so everything works OK for them. By definition, the torque and horsepower curves will always cross at the constant of 5252 RPM. Generally, if the torque is falling faster than the horsepower is rising as the RPM increases, you've already made peak total power, and it's time to upshift regardless of the RPM. For the Harley big twins, that number is nearly always going to be lower than 5252 RPM - and much of the time it will be much lower than that. Harley big twins are "undersquare" - they have a long stroke relative to the bore, and they make lots of torque at lower RPM because the pistons are moving up and down a great deal in the cylinders and travel more. They can't rev to very high RPM because of the piston speed limitations of all that movement up and down. Thus, torque in a big Harley bagger is much more important than horsepower to most riders, because most riders don't ever rev their engines anywhere near 5252 RPM. But in sport bike engines that make relatively low torque across the RPM range but make massive horsepower at high RPM (again, the definition of horsepower), the total power will increase well beyond 5252 RPM. Sport bike engines are "oversquare"... they have a relatively short stroke in relation to the bore, and that makes lower torque - but they can rev to very high RPM to make lots of horsepower. These engines can rev to 10,000+ RPM because the short stroke means less piston distance traveled, and that leaves lots of room for the engine to rev to very high RPM. And, these engines really need to rev to high RPM to make high horsepower, because of their relatively low torque. I have a quite knowledgeable friend who likes to say "Torque is what gets you moving. Horsepower is what keeps you there". And that's true - you need high torque to get a 1000+ lb bagger moving wuickly, but you aren't going to go 100+ MPH unless you are making high horsepower. It's just physics, and torque vs horsepower is always somewhat of a trade-off. Having said all that, I have my 2012 CVO Street Glide with the 110 CI Twin Cam engine set up for high horsepower - pretty much the total OPPOSITE of most heavy baggers. I run a Ness Big Sucker Stage 2 intake, SE-259e cams that have pretty high lift (.579"), long duration (246 intake and 250 exhaust), and high overlap, a Drago's Dragula 2-into-1 race pipe, and slightly higher compression. I think higher compression of 10.5/1 would help tho. This configuration produces less torque at lower RPM than the stock engine configuration did with the stock SE-255 cams, but much higher torque and horsepower at higher RPM. My bike produces tons of torque starting around 2750 RPM and continuing up to about 5000 RPM. I don't mind running my engine at higher RPM to get moving, and I love the obnoxiously LOUD sound the Dragula pipe makes doing that. I am actually in the process of retuning the bike using the TTS MasterTune, to take advantage of the new functionality in the newest TTS software for adjusting timing and getting the EGR table dialed in better to smooth out the lower RPM performance up to about 50 to 60 kPa. Okay, I'm done now, for people who even made it this far. Prolly not many...
Yes it’s nice to see what parts you build with. So many choices out there it’s nice to know what’s actually going to improve my bike the way I want 👊🏽🇺🇸
You are correct Adam, it's not just the hp that matters. It's the combination of all the parts that makes a bike truly perform. The single most import part of a motorcycle is the rider. Not everyone has the same ability in many cases the guys that built these crazy machines but lack the skills, end up crashing them.
First, I love my 93 FLSTN, I've done a few things as far as seat, handlebars, lowered shocks, I don’t have the money to throw at her like a lot of people, I just love to ride her, I'm visually impaired so I don't ride around other bikes very often, and I don't want to go that fast anyway, 80 mph is about all I want so nothing really beats just getting to ride, thanks Adam, I've really enjoyed watching you live out your dream, thanks again,keep up the good work and keep enjoying the ride 👍✌️🖖
I agree Adam and I love the look of ur bike I am just surprised u washed it lol because we all know on how much u love washing ur bike God bless and see u done the road brother
I agree my 103 twin cams a 14 police and a 09 king both keep up fine with much higher horsepower bikes. Here in the Asheville area you can’t even use the top speed much. A really good tune is worth more than huge displacement.
I've been watching as many videos as it can since you first came out and everything like that seems kind of interesting. I know my bike is bone stock but you know for a 114 and on a heritage. It gets out there not look for speed at 69 years old pretty much done with speed have a nice day Bob.
You're absolutely right sir. My numero uno is CAN YOU RIDE YOUR BIKE!!! Can you keep up? Can you put yourself back on the road after something rattles off, shears off, or bogs down? Also your wrong, Telsa wouldn't beat a Shelby towards a charging station 😂😂😂
Yup. Most these newer bikes are in the 100 plus range which can generally lightly smoke the rear tire and lift the front end. And when you do that the life of wearparts is shortened. Suspension? Absolutely. I love out cornering my buds and then slow down on the straights while they roar by me. My bike dynoed with a nice flat torque curve maxing at 122 at the rear wheel. Its plenty! Only 107k on the ol Vic. On the original motor and tranny. Its in the shop today for tire, brakes, and fork oil. Love your setup! Good vid! Ride well and ride on brother!
Yup, I just bought a 2017 Road Glide from Ride Now with a 128ci stroker and got on it leaving the dealership like I do every time I do on my 2018 BMW K1600B and when I hit 3rd gear, it blew the gear up. Glad I bought a warranty! Evidently Harley transmissions are only good for 120ft/lbs of torque and 100hp . The gears are over-heat treated and are brittle. Since I have worked at an aerospace shot peen house for 32 years, I am going to shot peen the new gears before they install them .
I have the Thundermax ecm on mine because I can tune it myself with my lap top no dealership frustrations which is worth every penny to me, I also installed a new head pipe without cat converter and S&S 475c cam chest kit plus DBX40 mufflers 2017 Ultra limited. Great Video, Thanks
In Michigan I added to my ultra a header gave me the noise I needed to others around me to hear me coming that's what i feel i need to know no one is going to cut me off it's down to zero this year very happy about that
100% this, when talking about any 103 ci or newer Harley touring model - they all can comfortably cruise at 80 mph and pass as needed at 90 mph no problem. When looking at building a long distance bike I like to start with ergonmics, then wind, then lighting, then luggage, then suspension, then power
Damn I ride a 107 M8 softtail slim . The 107 is plenty of power for that bikes handling abilities. If I wanted 200 plus HP I'd go a gsxr 1000 . Even then I met a handful of guys outside of my job working for superbike Canada that can actually ride those bikes as it was designed to be ridden..
To each his own! Some of us chase numbers.....some have other additions. All cost money. Whatever you can afford and makes you happy. Harley performance baggers are a rabbit hole....I'm down that hole. 17 roadking with a 129ci m8 putting out 152hp and 150 tq. Outruns all my buddies bikes with me 2 up but it cost me a fortune. But still ain't enough and doesn't scare me so I get what ya saying. Fine line to walk...
The 114 was just fine for me. If I still had my Heritage, I would've put a cam in it. Maybe front spring kit. Otherwise, that was plenty of go for the type of riding it's designed to do. You aren't carrying speed into, or through corners on a cruiser, as you said as well.
100% For years I've been riding a Stock 96" Dyna minus exhaust, intake, and tune. I went with RaceTech front suspension and Racing Bros rear fully adjustable piggy back shocks. World of a difference with how the bike handles. I will eventually update the engine but it has lasted me 94,000 miles.
For myself, the Thunderstroke 111 is enough for me. With that being said, once I'm loaded down and riding 2 up, yes, I could use a little more only for a handful of situations. I upgraded my suspension to an Arnott system that I'm in love with thus far. There are other parts I'm wanting to change out, unfortunately, the aftermarket scene for Indian bikes is not what HD is. So, I work with what I have, and continue to enjoy it while waiting for companies to build what I want. Just keep riding, be safe.
Also been rockin your Kraus/Sandoval bars on my 21 Electra Glide Standard. Don't need to look at my stereo 'that's not there" I just wanted the adjustability. And I love it.
I have an aprilia 50cc 2 stroke gp bike that is one of my favorites just under my heritage. It has around 18 to 20hp and can hit 70 easy with the way i have it geared and it weighs about 200 lbs
Horsepower is the reason why we have reliability only found on the racetrack. Like Adam says we mere mortals just enjoy the ride we only need enough horsepower to get ourselves out of trouble. My next bike is the next experience the next demo the next long distance ride.
I agree with the stock comments, my '12 classic had 150K before I rebuilt the 103 and had some upgrades done on the oil pump, stator, compensator, tensioner and first clutch replacement. This old bike gets me where I'm going and has been reliable. I'd rather save all that expense for "show" and spend it on the upgrades for suspension, fuel, beer and motels. It's been to all lower forty eight, 4 provinces and it did just fine.
I got tired of trying to make my Harley go fast and handle. So I bought a second bike, a BMW S1000XR. There is no comparison with the Harley concerning power and handling. I still ride the Harley about 1/3 of the time.
100%. If you can’t outride your stock suspension, more horsepower is not going to help. If you don’t know what I mean by that, more horsepower is just a waste. I think a mild cam and good suspension will let you put all but the top 5% of riders out there in your rear view mirror, IF you have the skills, confidence and balls. If you don’t have those three you don’t need more horsepower lol.
Hey Adam, check out these bars made from rockit bars, these bars adjust as you ride… (electric) perfect for the t bar set up… game changer… ask for JT cool dude.. not only is he the manufacturer of them but he personally test rides his bars ,cross country mile pounder…
I’ve got a 124 M8.. 11:1 compression SS crank .. Had it originally set up to pull hard up top .. Changed some things for more torque .. Now it makes 145tq from 2500.. and stays above 140 til 5k. only 130hp…falls off around 5200rpm. But 3k-5k .. RIPS. I don’t feel like I’m missing anything thing I spent so little time above 5k .. and the horsepower setup was really only fun above 90-100mph I can have fun now at 40mph or 50 bc of that instant tq that is EVERYWHERE
@adam Sandoval- 22 Street Glide special. I’ve personally added everything myself except the front Suspension which was done by Big Bear performance. Fuel Moto 128 with all the ancillary components I felt I wanted. Rear Big Bear tuned Ohlins, great seat, Kw Windshield. It’s built for highway performance, long touring but still rips in the city. I’m less concerned with cutting weight because I see the bike as I’ve built it. She’s a heavy bagger made to eat miles and miles of road. My numbers are 132HP, 144TQ. Someone will consistently tell me I am leaving power on the table, but my tuner and I agree that we want state to state power and reliability. She has not let me down once.
HP is cool if you are wide open, but for the road torque is king. Let's be real and acknowledge that all that HP is useless on our Harleys because they are governed on their top speed. All your points are solid.
For daily riding, you're riding in the usable area UNDER the curve, since you rarely run full throttle, which is where the dyno curve line comes from. It's what's UNDER it that counts. and how much fuel you use vs waste with more and more aggressive cams and lack of back pressure from modified exhaust systems. I'll keep my bike stock.
I've never been one to follow the crowd. Probably why I'm on a stratoliner. The most important thing to me is I can get out there and ride! A budget friendly bike that's reliable rides and looks great is what matters to me. Everything else is fun but not a necessity to me. Ride on!
Suspension, seat, bars, foot position/ peg boards, Grips, air cleaner, exhaust, cup/phone and tires that grip and are durable. Not needed but Maybe a Low to mid Cam with a stock HD stage 2 download work fine over the road and canyons riding, road trips....................................Reliability and fun is what's important. 40 years + of riding this great country. Having a fast bike rock, but not need for over the road.
Amen , I have learned this 1st hand. My new to me 2020 limited, has been torn down twice, cause I wanted a 131 very unreliable, 27 k miles and I've learned it's junk.
I agree with the curve and where and when the bike gets its power. I was on a 660 cc bike on the Convoy and the only thing that was holding me at the back, was me, the bike would of nit had any problems riding high and tight with the larger Harleys.
I was told: Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how hard you hit the wall. Lol 😆 That aside, my education taught me, horsepower is a function of torque. Not the other way around. I prefer torque, it makes overall operation easier to me.
My old 2005 Dyna Wide Glide currently has 72,000 miles on the clock. All it has is a Screaming Eagle high flow air breather, and a pair of D&D flow through mufflers. Other than that, it's showroom stock. Never had the headbolts turned. Still has the original spring loaded cam chain tensioner. My secret... be very anal about oil changes at proper intervals, and don't dog the shit out of it. When the time comes... I'll rebuild it and ride it another 100,000 miles.
Agree. Horsepower is a calculation, torque x rpm divided by a constant. More rpm more horsepower generally speaking. My Super Duke 1290r 180 horsepower and 104 ft pounds all below 9500. Bike only weighs 460 pounds wet. Its electronic suspension is a major carpet ride. I have heard great things about legends. Surprised Harley has not introduced electric suspension other than its ADV bike. Suspension helps everything. Useable horsepower/torque at mid and lower end. Who rides around town at 14,000 rpm with some of these sport bikes. I place bags on my super Duke but recommended to not pass 110. I believe Harley also recommends baggers not to pass 110 as wind can grab the bags causing serious handling issues if not a professional racer.
I have a ‘14 street good 103 stage one it came that way w the screaming eagle big breather and pipes were all done…I did the Memphis shades screen and changed the seat and sissy bar and here shortly will do a lower rear kit just so I can feel better though I’m 5’11 the shocks in the bike r real I used to HAVE TO SEE how daft my bikes would go…these days I have learned to enjoy the ride and look around w my last on the back this bike will hold 120 all day and I just don’t see a need to do that nor will I cruise that fast and I’ve got plenty to pass anyone at any time …!!!
Facts, but it also matters how you ride, and YOUR individual purpose for riding. I ride long cross country rides, so stock is plenty for me. If I raced, that might be different tho.
I run all my harleys completely stock. Plenty of power for me. And the most reliable. Thanks for sharing , enjoyed.
It’s all a matter of perspective. Last year I bought a 2023 Road Glide 107. It has about double the hp and probably triple the torque of my old bike. While everyone is telling me “you need this cam” or “you need this big bore kit”, I’m thrilled with the power I have now. Reliability is more important than high hp gains, riding miles and miles with no problems is worth it to me. Everyone should build their bike for them, not to impress others.
Absolutely true 👊🏼😎
Your correct, 107 M8 will run and run for a long time without major problems, My 131 M8 makes a lot of HP and a LOT OF HEAT 😢. My Son's 107 M8 is truly a more enjoyable ride and no excessive heat.
I have an '18 107 Road Glide and I rarely twist the throttle more than 1/4 turn or rev past 3500 RPMs. I put money into comfort and suspension instead of Stages.
@@adamsandoval Adam, I congratulate you on your success in all of your Businesses that allow you afford to spend $60,000.00 on your new bike. I have to laugh at your experience with your $5,000.00 Harley that breaks down all the time.
It looks like you got your new Expensive Toy out again. Did you realize that you can buy most any other Brand of Motorcycle and stock it will run better and handle better than Harley's do with the exception of the Pan America.
I was thinking about buying a Yamaha V-Max that has 185 HP with decent handling and braking, plus very reliable but it only gets about 32 MPG or less with shaft drive.
As a Tribute to Eric Buell and the Buell Brand that HD spent $116 Million to Kill I bought a 2008 Buell Ulyesses for $4,500.00 in 2022. It had 15,000 miles in it. The tires were hard as a rock and a rear wheel bearing went out. Online I found out that Buell upgraded from two small wheel bearings to three larger wheel bearings and I found the wheel , bearings and axle kit for a Surplus warehouse for with tax and shipping about $800.00 .. Now I don't have to worry about rear wheel bearing failures on a long trip. I supposed I should buy a spare belt next.
My 2008 Buell has an Italian Frame and switchgear. German Luggage.. Japanese Showa Suspension that is adjustable and works just fine, and Chinese wheels. I paid $4,500.00 for it plus during Biden's Fuel price issues spent $700.00 fuel for my pickup and for the bike to get it back from Souix Falls SD to Michigan.
Stock the 74 CI Buell is supposed to be 103 HP So far I have left every Harley I have encounter in the dust on a twisty road. The Buell has a wide comfortable seat that I can ride all day on. It has wide handle bars like a dirt bike.. It has aggressive Mid controls. So far I have not been beaten by an HD on the street in a drag race. At the Drag strip where were HD's with wheelie bars ect that were faster than me. My Problem was with the short wheel base I was doing huge wheelies. So I could not take off hard. I ran 12.77 at 107 MPH in the 1/4 mile.
I am happy I bought the Buell to prove a point that Buell's were so Superior to HD's My Buell was $12,000 in 2008. My Yamaha FZ-07 was $7,400 on the road in 2017.. I have another $2,000 into luggage .. plus a windscreen .. crash bars and $650.00 into Ohlin Cartridges to make it handle like it should and $450 for a K-Tech rear shock . My Yamaha Needed Suspension upgrades and the Buell did not. The Buell gets about 43 MPG on 93 Octane and the Yamaha gets about 52 MPG on 87 Octane $1.00 per gallon cheaper gas. Riding with a HOG chapter at 55 MPH max I got 63 MPG ..
stock 2016 Ultra 103 engine works for me
Torque is where it's at. I have a Heritage 114 and an Ultra Limited 114. I've put torque cams in both (with a good air cleaner and pipes, of course). I love having that torque when I need it, around 3000 rpm. The other day, when my wife and I were on my recently traded Road Glide 114 (also with a torque cam), a Mustang GT pulled up next to me at a red light. He gunned his engine. I gunned my mine. The light changed, and I watched him in my rear view mirror. He had gobs more HP than me, but my high thrust/weigh and torque, clobbered him. In the quarter mile, torque beats horsepower [almost] every time. With the EPA mandated speed limiters, you'll never really benefit from high horsepower anyway. Good video. I agree with all of your points.
Horsepower is a unit of power. Power does matter. If your bike doesn't make it, it won't move. You bike makes power across the rev range or you wouldn't have a rev range. What doesn't matter is the *peak* power they sell you to market bikes. Well, it doesn't matter if you're not trying to lower lap times. For those of us riding on the street it doesn't matter as we are very seldom riding at the rpm to get to the engine's peak power delivery.
I believe reliability matters most. The dudes who let them sit are the ones who want bragging rights in HP.
Couldn't agree more! Torque is what matters on a large bagger!
Nailed it! Mild cam, high flow air, exhaust, a tune upgrade suspension, and good brakes. Perfection and lots of fun.
Absolutely
100 percent correct man!
I’m always going into these conversations like here we go again, but honestly this is the first one I’ve seen in a long time someone actually emphasizing the importance of balancing out the bike. And for that, thank you.
👊🏼😎
Without awesome torque you ain't going anywhere.
You're NOT wrong, in fact I would say your spot on!!
Setting up the bike for the person who is riding it and not a machine in a shop will always make for a better ride.
Nailed it! However, there is a market for everything. If consumers are anxious to spend money, someone will be glad to make something to take it lol. Call me boring, but I'll keep my engine stock and use the savings on travel experiences.
Perfectly said! Get your a** on some class! No one should ever buy a harley for horsepower, buy a sport bike for that. Harley has and should always be bought four cruising, touring, and looking good while doing it. They are the most customizable bike on the road. I think people forget the history and lifestyle of what harley is. In my mid 40s, makes me sad to see some of that disappear, but I still see people trying to hang on to the nostalgia of what harley-davidson is! Younger peeps, do your homework and listen to Adam.
Onee of your best Adam. Good job. I have this conversation with friends all the time about how much HP they're putting down and how fast they are.
I remind them that in rush hour traffic they going as fast as I am on my bike. LOL
It’s all about “ Useable Linear Power ‘ a nice smooth hp and torque curve 👍
You Are past correct, this is exactly correct. Thanks for bring this up on TH-cam!
I agree with you 100% great topic! Sometimes I get tired of the "what's the numbers" conversation! Not many people talk about how hot bikes run and problems they have had mechanically along the way either. I want performance and comfort plus reliability for long distance trips!
That’s correct, torque the more the better! Especially low end
I agree Adam! Well said! I am 6'6" and 90% of what I have done to my 2021 Road Glide Special is for my personal comfort. Legend Revo A 13" rear shocks, custom made saddle, forward floor boards with extended shifter and brake, taller wind screen. I did do a stage 1 but nothing else to the engine. I have plenty of HP and Torque and with my bike set up for comfort I can routinely ride 400-500 miles in a day without much difficulty. Back in August I rode from Gatlinburg TN to my home in Western Ma in one day-900 Miles! Being comfortable, having fun and being in the wind are all that really matters(IMHO) HP is just a number...
At 6’2”, I’ve found that for ultimate comfort, finding the right parts is key
Agreed Adam, that Horsepower is not the only gating factor, but for my Honda CB75'0's on Rt 95 in New England, it affords the ability to avoid aggressive traffic. Folks use to be polite years back, but these days, you have sometimes a momentum of 80+ mph for the herd with aggressive drivers weaving in and across lanes at 100+ mph. One must be alert to and know how to dodge these guys like meteorites - Further when needing to enter the highway, folks simply are not neighborly. It is about top speed, and also acceleration to that top speed -
About having fun - well that's the luxury reserved mostly for newer bikes, although recently I have had less mishaps with my 45 year old Beauty. She and Babe her peer are 600lb bikes. They have been buffed and have about 98hp, and without helmets will peel your cheeks back under acceleration. Still, Beauty and i got time together and endless adventure stories to share - like drag racing at the beach in bathing suits with ones girlfriend hanging on, when I was a dumb kid. Full Face helmets were not invented then , and I did not use helmets then either - real dumb - now I look like a spaceman when I ride -
On Country rides like yesterday, Only time Horses were needed was to leave a tail gaiter on a country road, where normally would cruse at 30-40 mph.
The One thing a pretty Harley has over my bikes is riding comfort, where I figure you can ride for about 3 hours, where I like to dismount hourly for a stretch.
Still, comeback to New England, and we can do Rt 7 to Limerock next season if you like -
HP matters to the aftermarket mostly. It sells parts.
I agree. So many ppl are chasing that number. That power number makes no difference if you can’t get it to the wheels. Plus in my years of working on cars/motorcycles, the more hp you make, usually the less reliable it becomes.✌️
Years ago I had a foxbody mustang. Built 306, big cam, trickflow heads and intake. Mean sounding!! I raced another foxbody with just a bolt on exhaust, and I was beaten by a car and half. I was spinning most of the time. Spinning ain’t winning, and if you can’t put all that power to the ground…at the end of the day all you have is a vehicle that feels like it’s on ice all the time. While fun, it’s not winning races. ✌️
Adam, your perspective is 100% accurate.
I was just talking about this with a guy I was riding with. I have a 16 Road Glide Ultra 103 and he has a 23 Fast Johnnie Road Glide (I think 117). I couldn't keep up with him on the straight aways but then the traffic started building and we were working those bikes but got through it. After we stopped, I told him my bike may be older but I was doing my best to keep up and my bike handled well, it helps I upgraded with a full Fox Suspension system, handling is so much more responsive with it. He responded with, horsepower doesn't matter when the person riding doesn't know how to manipulate it. Definitely got me thinking, I know my bike and I know the response of what I want to do and what it can do. I may be in a lower gear to keep up but it's more than just twisting a throttle. Either way we had a great ride and I do love my bike but there is also a thrill when you have a large displacement bike and you hammer down with instant response to increase speed. I'll probably just do a minor cam swap to just get that pull at higher speeds when I need to pass someone and already going 80-90.
Thanks for tuning in 👊🏼 😎
Love how you spected out your Road Glide.
Thanks!
I have a 2020 Road Glide and this is the first one I didn't do any major engine work to just air cleaner and pipes with tuner. First one I did a full suspension system on and from now on that's the first thing I will do. Unbelievable how the bike rides. I totally agree with what you have said.
I don’t care about horsepower I just enjoy the ride
A couple of months ago my bike got totaled. I finally got my check from my insurance company. Monday I looked at a 2021 street glide special. Tomorrow is the test ride. It's been cool in central Ohio but this weekend is gonna be nice. Watching this video makes me want to get my bike tonight. I can't wait.
Congrats!
Torque equals comfort. Passing power is king. If I can pass with a twist of the throttle, instead of having to downshift, that’s more comfort and less fatigue. But it’s nice to be able to drop a gear or two and get that extra punch.
Never understood people saying passing power without downshifting. If you drive an automatic car it will always downshift to pass. Why wouldn't you want to put your engine in the proper rev range for max torque when passing?
@@Dave-sw2dm you don’t understand torque, or you don’t understand my statement. Most engines reach max torque far below max horsepower. If you’re on a long straightaway, do you go for broke every time you pass? My bike has over 90 lbs/ft of torque and 145 horsepower. I can pass quicker in 5th gear than most cars with an automatic that downshifts. It’s not a race. I just want to pass comfortably.
@@Ronzola1 , why did you mention the horsepower your engine puts out when you say it is the torque that matters? Where in the rev range are you putting out max torque? If you are in 6th gear what RPMs are you cruising at? Oh, is your bike only a 5 speed? You wont accelerate quicker by downshifting? Just sounds like a lazy rider trying to justify dumping $10k into their engine.
@@Dave-sw2dm I’m not justifying anything. Did you not read my original post? I said it’s nice to be able to drop a gear or two. If I feel like it, I will. I’m not a kid anymore. I’ve ridden over the years, more than 200,000 miles. If you interpret my preference for passing, using the torque that is ready and waiting at all times as being lazy, then that’s your problem. I have nothing to prove and nothing I need to explain to someone who seems to be trolling. I have my opinion and you have yours. Are you trolling Adam too? We are of the same opinion.
@@Ronzola1 , your post reminds me of my Mustang GT manual test ride. The salesman said I could pretty much leave it in 5th gear because it had so much power. I told him that is a negative for me. I want to have to work the gearbox to keep the engine in the powerband. That is how I feel about motorcycles. Give me enough power to run the interstate an exit or two to get to the next fun road but not so much power that I dont have to downshift to climb that hill or pass someone. Might as well buy an automatic Goldwing. If you are riding a Harleynwith those HP numbers you are riding a modified bike.
Video was spot on, however the camera showed the air cleaner and the pipe on the left side a few times and that kinda jacked me up for a minute.
I have a 2012 ultra. I have a blueprinted 117 with a 7 speed Baker and bulletproof primary. 125 ftlb torque about same hp. With that Baker, it pulls so nice through the 1st 4 gears with all that torque. At 1300 lbs, fully loaded, it is very smooth and rolls through the mountains with ease. Torque is king!!!
Totally agree, more isn't always better
I think anyone who's done a fair amount of touring knows that horsepower is not very important when you're doing 400 to 500 miles a day. Just cruising at highway speeds doesn't require much HP. Torque is more prevalent in most situations. Different styles of riding cause for different needs for different bikes. For me lean angle is important, while I like to be comfortable on a big cruiser riding down highway 1 in Cali, I do wish they had more clearance. So I take my Concours 14 out for the twisties. But rarely use the 164 horsepower it comes with.
And staying off the highways makes motorcycling more enjoyable.
The torque on my stock 107 M8 powered Sport Glide was more than enough, from the high compression long stroke under bore HD engine design. A 695# bike doesn't hurt, either, with torque figures like that. The 615# BMW R1250 RT touring bike that replaced it, is down on torque, at only 105 ft lbs, but the lighter weight more than offsets it. Plus how it tours and how it handles in the twisties is superior. Yes, I miss that rumble and torque right off of idle of the long stroke motor on the HD, but I don't miss servicing 3 holes to drain every 5000 miles and 7 qts needed vs drain 1 universal reservoir with 4 liters, that serves all 3 parts every 6200 miles, instead on the BMW.
I totally agree!
Torque is more important than hp. I have a hot V111 in a 98 roadking and a mild near stock tc88 in a 99 roadking. The 99 has plenty of power for most riding. It doesn't have enough power to comfortably run a 6th gear, if it had one. The 98 does have a 6 speed and it is definitely more fun to ride than the 99. One bad thing is the 98 runs much hotter temperature-wise than the 99. I ride wearing shorts (on short rides) so the engine temperature is important to me. The larger the displacement the more heat there will be, that's just physics. Reliability is the most important thing if you plan to tour. I ride alone most of the time so I need reliability.
Your bars look cool but I prefer apes. Very comfortable to me and makes carving curvy roads so easy.
Many suspension upgrades as well. You have great points in your video.
Adam I agree with you 100%. I would trade a lot of horsepower for torque and a smooth ride any day. I would rather upgrade the suspension rather than upgrade the engine for more speed. Sometimes you can whip up on the big boys with a smaller engine if you have the right gear ratio. My personal opinion, the only thing speed gets you is a quicker death sentence if not a bigger ticket!
Good video focusing on many things being needed besides just the horsepower number, which as you pointed out doesn't mean much to most bagger riders except as a number to brag about while NOT moving. Warning: long comment ahead!
I agree that "horsepower doesn't matter" for the vast majority of heavy bagger riders. Lots of bagger riders like to lug the big twin engine because it sounds good to them. They may be making lots of torque, but at 3000 RPM the Harley big twin is NOT making high horsepower. And that's OK because they don't really need to run high RPM on the street or road. High torque is what they need, to get the big bike moving from a stop, or get it moving faster while rolling down the road. I've ridden with lots of other bagger riders, and I can tell from the sound of their exhaust that they are not turning high RPM... thus, they are not making high horsepower. It's not physically possible. Here's why...
Torque is a simple number that is the twisting force generated by the engine. It follows a curve governed primarily by the cam profile - and also by other engine factors like the intake and exhaust, the flow allowed by the heads, the volumetric efficiency (VE), and the AFR ratio at all RPMs... the TUNE. Without a good tune you're not going to make good torque. The cam (or cams in a Twin Cam) also govern(s) the torque profile. Engines are basically air pumps, and the torque produced at various RPMs always varies. For big baggers, you generally want a "flat" cam profile - one that will enable the engine to produce lots of torque starting at a relatively low RPM and continuing to produce lots of torque as the RPM increases, up to a point where it inevitably begins to fall off. All torque curves will rise to a peak as RPM rises, and then fall off at some point.
Horsepower is a number calculated as: (Torque * RPM) / 5252. Horsepower is basically torque measured over a period of time to do work, and it can ONLY increase if the RPM increases. That's literally the definition of horsepower. You CANNOT make high horsepower unless you have high RPM. Period. Many bagger riders never rev their engine much past 3500 RPM, and so they never make high horsepower, but their engines make tons of torque, so everything works OK for them.
By definition, the torque and horsepower curves will always cross at the constant of 5252 RPM. Generally, if the torque is falling faster than the horsepower is rising as the RPM increases, you've already made peak total power, and it's time to upshift regardless of the RPM. For the Harley big twins, that number is nearly always going to be lower than 5252 RPM - and much of the time it will be much lower than that. Harley big twins are "undersquare" - they have a long stroke relative to the bore, and they make lots of torque at lower RPM because the pistons are moving up and down a great deal in the cylinders and travel more. They can't rev to very high RPM because of the piston speed limitations of all that movement up and down. Thus, torque in a big Harley bagger is much more important than horsepower to most riders, because most riders don't ever rev their engines anywhere near 5252 RPM.
But in sport bike engines that make relatively low torque across the RPM range but make massive horsepower at high RPM (again, the definition of horsepower), the total power will increase well beyond 5252 RPM. Sport bike engines are "oversquare"... they have a relatively short stroke in relation to the bore, and that makes lower torque - but they can rev to very high RPM to make lots of horsepower. These engines can rev to 10,000+ RPM because the short stroke means less piston distance traveled, and that leaves lots of room for the engine to rev to very high RPM. And, these engines really need to rev to high RPM to make high horsepower, because of their relatively low torque.
I have a quite knowledgeable friend who likes to say "Torque is what gets you moving. Horsepower is what keeps you there". And that's true - you need high torque to get a 1000+ lb bagger moving wuickly, but you aren't going to go 100+ MPH unless you are making high horsepower. It's just physics, and torque vs horsepower is always somewhat of a trade-off.
Having said all that, I have my 2012 CVO Street Glide with the 110 CI Twin Cam engine set up for high horsepower - pretty much the total OPPOSITE of most heavy baggers. I run a Ness Big Sucker Stage 2 intake, SE-259e cams that have pretty high lift (.579"), long duration (246 intake and 250 exhaust), and high overlap, a Drago's Dragula 2-into-1 race pipe, and slightly higher compression. I think higher compression of 10.5/1 would help tho. This configuration produces less torque at lower RPM than the stock engine configuration did with the stock SE-255 cams, but much higher torque and horsepower at higher RPM. My bike produces tons of torque starting around 2750 RPM and continuing up to about 5000 RPM. I don't mind running my engine at higher RPM to get moving, and I love the obnoxiously LOUD sound the Dragula pipe makes doing that. I am actually in the process of retuning the bike using the TTS MasterTune, to take advantage of the new functionality in the newest TTS software for adjusting timing and getting the EGR table dialed in better to smooth out the lower RPM performance up to about 50 to 60 kPa.
Okay, I'm done now, for people who even made it this far. Prolly not many...
Nice review of your part's and very informative thanks for posting
Thanks for tuning in 👊🏼
Yes it’s nice to see what parts you build with. So many choices out there it’s nice to know what’s actually going to improve my bike the way I want 👊🏽🇺🇸
Well said!!! Nothing more to say. I stand with you!!
👊🏼😎
You are correct Adam, it's not just the hp that matters. It's the combination of all the parts that makes a bike truly perform. The single most import part of a motorcycle is the rider. Not everyone has the same ability in many cases the guys that built these crazy machines but lack the skills, end up crashing them.
First, I love my 93 FLSTN, I've done a few things as far as seat, handlebars, lowered shocks, I don’t have the money to throw at her like a lot of people, I just love to ride her, I'm visually impaired so I don't ride around other bikes very often, and I don't want to go that fast anyway, 80 mph is about all I want so nothing really beats just getting to ride, thanks Adam, I've really enjoyed watching you live out your dream, thanks again,keep up the good work and keep enjoying the ride 👍✌️🖖
Thanks for tuning in 👊🏼
I agree Adam and I love the look of ur bike I am just surprised u washed it lol because we all know on how much u love washing ur bike God bless and see u done the road brother
🤣 this whole build has been different than my previous bikes - including how I take care of it
I agree my 103 twin cams a 14 police and a 09 king both keep up fine with much higher horsepower bikes. Here in the Asheville area you can’t even use the top speed much. A really good tune is worth more than huge displacement.
I've been watching as many videos as it can since you first came out and everything like that seems kind of interesting. I know my bike is bone stock but you know for a 114 and on a heritage.
It gets out there not look for speed at 69 years old pretty much done with speed have a nice day Bob.
Thank you Adam! Just bragging rights!
The craze for more and more HP is crazy. Just ride the damn bike. I hope we can get back to just enjoying the ride soon.
You're absolutely right sir. My numero uno is CAN YOU RIDE YOUR BIKE!!! Can you keep up? Can you put yourself back on the road after something rattles off, shears off, or bogs down? Also your wrong, Telsa wouldn't beat a Shelby towards a charging station 😂😂😂
Yup. Most these newer bikes are in the 100 plus range which can generally lightly smoke the rear tire and lift the front end. And when you do that the life of wearparts is shortened.
Suspension? Absolutely. I love out cornering my buds and then slow down on the straights while they roar by me. My bike dynoed with a nice flat torque curve maxing at 122 at the rear wheel. Its plenty! Only 107k on the ol Vic. On the original motor and tranny. Its in the shop today for tire, brakes, and fork oil.
Love your setup!
Good vid!
Ride well and ride on brother!
Thanks for tuning in 👊🏼
Yup, I just bought a 2017 Road Glide from Ride Now with a 128ci stroker and got on it leaving the dealership like I do every time I do on my 2018 BMW K1600B and when I hit 3rd gear, it blew the gear up. Glad I bought a warranty! Evidently Harley transmissions are only good for 120ft/lbs of torque and 100hp . The gears are over-heat treated and are brittle. Since I have worked at an aerospace shot peen house for 32 years, I am going to shot peen the new gears before they install them .
I discovered many years ago that ride-ability is way more important that HP and dyno numbers.
I have the Thundermax ecm on mine because I can tune it myself with my lap top no dealership frustrations which is worth every penny to me, I also installed a new head pipe without cat converter and S&S 475c cam chest kit plus DBX40 mufflers 2017 Ultra limited. Great Video, Thanks
Nice!
Spot on and if there’s anyone qualified to provide this type of information, I’d say it’s you 😉
In Michigan I added to my ultra a header gave me the noise I needed to others around me to hear me coming that's what i feel i need to know no one is going to cut me off it's down to zero this year very happy about that
You are correct fine, sir
100% this, when talking about any 103 ci or newer Harley touring model - they all can comfortably cruise at 80 mph and pass as needed at 90 mph no problem.
When looking at building a long distance bike I like to start with ergonmics, then wind, then lighting, then luggage, then suspension, then power
Damn I ride a 107 M8 softtail slim . The 107 is plenty of power for that bikes handling abilities. If I wanted 200 plus HP I'd go a gsxr 1000 . Even then I met a handful of guys outside of my job working for superbike Canada that can actually ride those bikes as it was designed to be ridden..
Great video, Adam. Totally agree.
Thanks for tuning in 👊🏼
Couldn’t agree more my man. The older I get the more I want comfort over Preformance
To each his own! Some of us chase numbers.....some have other additions. All cost money. Whatever you can afford and makes you happy. Harley performance baggers are a rabbit hole....I'm down that hole. 17 roadking with a 129ci m8 putting out 152hp and 150 tq. Outruns all my buddies bikes with me 2 up but it cost me a fortune. But still ain't enough and doesn't scare me so I get what ya saying. Fine line to walk...
A fine line, indeed
The 114 was just fine for me. If I still had my Heritage, I would've put a cam in it. Maybe front spring kit. Otherwise, that was plenty of go for the type of riding it's designed to do. You aren't carrying speed into, or through corners on a cruiser, as you said as well.
100% For years I've been riding a Stock 96" Dyna minus exhaust, intake, and tune. I went with RaceTech front suspension and Racing Bros rear fully adjustable piggy back shocks. World of a difference with how the bike handles. I will eventually update the engine but it has lasted me 94,000 miles.
For myself, the Thunderstroke 111 is enough for me. With that being said, once I'm loaded down and riding 2 up, yes, I could use a little more only for a handful of situations. I upgraded my suspension to an Arnott system that I'm in love with thus far. There are other parts I'm wanting to change out, unfortunately, the aftermarket scene for Indian bikes is not what HD is. So, I work with what I have, and continue to enjoy it while waiting for companies to build what I want. Just keep riding, be safe.
Also been rockin your Kraus/Sandoval bars on my 21 Electra Glide Standard. Don't need to look at my stereo 'that's not there" I just wanted the adjustability. And I love it.
So glad to hear you’re loving them as much as I do!
Fun on bike is most important
I have an aprilia 50cc 2 stroke gp bike that is one of my favorites just under my heritage. It has around 18 to 20hp and can hit 70 easy with the way i have it geared and it weighs about 200 lbs
Horsepower is the reason why we have reliability only found on the racetrack. Like Adam says we mere mortals just enjoy the ride we only need enough horsepower to get ourselves out of trouble. My next bike is the next experience the next demo the next long distance ride.
As a former Hd Tech and fan of the TC88, I agree.
I agree with the stock comments, my '12 classic had 150K before I rebuilt the 103 and had some upgrades done on the oil pump, stator, compensator, tensioner and first clutch replacement. This old bike gets me where I'm going and has been reliable. I'd rather save all that expense for "show" and spend it on the upgrades for suspension, fuel, beer and motels. It's been to all lower forty eight, 4 provinces and it did just fine.
The horsepower gets you up to the top the torque takes you there
Rs468 + D&D billet cat exhaust pulls like a freight train.
I got tired of trying to make my Harley go fast and handle. So I bought a second bike, a BMW S1000XR. There is no comparison with the Harley concerning power and handling. I still ride the Harley about 1/3 of the time.
100%. If you can’t outride your stock suspension, more horsepower is not going to help. If you don’t know what I mean by that, more horsepower is just a waste. I think a mild cam and good suspension will let you put all but the top 5% of riders out there in your rear view mirror, IF you have the skills, confidence and balls. If you don’t have those three you don’t need more horsepower lol.
💯
I love my stock Indian chieftain it with the ride modes. I put it in sport and it makes me happy. That’s all the power I need.
I'm a rebel Harley rider. I kept my 114 Heritage stock. Nice and smooth. Nice and quiet. Just the way I like it.
Thanks adam
Hey Adam, check out these bars made from rockit bars, these bars adjust as you ride… (electric) perfect for the t bar set up… game changer… ask for JT cool dude.. not only is he the manufacturer of them but he personally test rides his bars ,cross country mile pounder…
I’ve got a 124 M8..
11:1 compression
SS crank ..
Had it originally set up to pull hard up top ..
Changed some things for more torque ..
Now it makes 145tq from 2500.. and stays above 140 til 5k.
only 130hp…falls off around 5200rpm.
But 3k-5k .. RIPS.
I don’t feel like I’m missing anything thing
I spent so little time above 5k ..
and the horsepower setup was really only fun above 90-100mph
I can have fun now at 40mph or 50 bc of that instant tq that is EVERYWHERE
@adam Sandoval- 22 Street Glide special. I’ve personally added everything myself except the front Suspension which was done by Big Bear performance. Fuel Moto 128 with all the ancillary components I felt I wanted. Rear Big Bear tuned Ohlins, great seat, Kw Windshield. It’s built for highway performance, long touring but still rips in the city. I’m less concerned with cutting weight because I see the bike as I’ve built it. She’s a heavy bagger made to eat miles and miles of road. My numbers are 132HP, 144TQ. Someone will consistently tell me I am leaving power on the table, but my tuner and I agree that we want state to state power and reliability. She has not let me down once.
HP is cool if you are wide open, but for the road torque is king. Let's be real and acknowledge that all that HP is useless on our Harleys because they are governed on their top speed. All your points are solid.
For daily riding, you're riding in the usable area UNDER the curve, since you rarely run full throttle, which is where the dyno curve line comes from. It's what's UNDER it that counts. and how much fuel you use vs waste with more and more aggressive cams and lack of back pressure from modified exhaust systems. I'll keep my bike stock.
I've never been one to follow the crowd. Probably why I'm on a stratoliner. The most important thing to me is I can get out there and ride! A budget friendly bike that's reliable rides and looks great is what matters to me.
Everything else is fun but not a necessity to me. Ride on!
Thank you for some truth .....
Torque/displacement are where it's at. Horsepower is an outcome of all the other important goods your motor gives you.
Great Vid. Adam⭐
Thanks 👊🏼😎 Glad you enjoyed it
Suspension, seat, bars, foot position/ peg boards, Grips, air cleaner, exhaust, cup/phone and tires that grip and are durable. Not needed but Maybe a Low to mid Cam with a stock HD stage 2 download work fine over the road and canyons riding, road trips....................................Reliability and fun is what's important. 40 years + of riding this great country. Having a fast bike rock, but not need for over the road.
I start with comfort and then move on to some accessories. Comfort is the key for me at 50
Amen , I have learned this 1st hand. My new to me 2020 limited, has been torn down twice, cause I wanted a 131 very unreliable, 27 k miles and I've learned it's junk.
Adam exactly torge will move a big heavy bike around just fine. If your racen then you want that horse power topend. Ride safe.
So true about HP, first of all 80mph is the top speed of any highway in the USA. Fast is great on the track but you don't need it in every day life
Those bars are what Kawasaki put on the Voyager XII back in 1986.
I agree with the curve and where and when the bike gets its power. I was on a 660 cc bike on the Convoy and the only thing that was holding me at the back, was me, the bike would of nit had any problems riding high and tight with the larger Harleys.
I was told:
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.
Torque is how hard you hit the wall. Lol 😆
That aside, my education taught me, horsepower is a function of torque. Not the other way around. I prefer torque, it makes overall operation easier to me.
Well put👊🏼
I have more concern with torque, not horsepower. Torque is what I can feel and enjoy.
My old 2005 Dyna Wide Glide currently has 72,000 miles on the clock. All it has is a Screaming Eagle high flow air breather, and a pair of D&D flow through mufflers. Other than that, it's showroom stock. Never had the headbolts turned. Still has the original spring loaded cam chain tensioner.
My secret... be very anal about oil changes at proper intervals, and don't dog the shit out of it. When the time comes... I'll rebuild it and ride it another 100,000 miles.
Got an 2004 Wideglide! Very similar set up! Love that bike sometimes more than my newer M8!
Agree. Horsepower is a calculation, torque x rpm divided by a constant. More rpm more horsepower generally speaking. My Super Duke 1290r 180 horsepower and 104 ft pounds all below 9500. Bike only weighs 460 pounds wet. Its electronic suspension is a major carpet ride. I have heard great things about legends. Surprised Harley has not introduced electric suspension other than its ADV bike. Suspension helps everything. Useable horsepower/torque at mid and lower end. Who rides around town at 14,000 rpm with some of these sport bikes. I place bags on my super Duke but recommended to not pass 110. I believe Harley also recommends baggers not to pass 110 as wind can grab the bags causing serious handling issues if not a professional racer.
Also electronic suspension nice to push a button, 2 people and bags
You 100% correct it’s not all about the horsepower with horsepower. It brings heat and that’s a whole new downfall if you wanna ride.
I have a ‘14 street good 103 stage one it came that way w the screaming eagle big breather and pipes were all done…I did the Memphis shades screen and changed the seat and sissy bar and here shortly will do a lower rear kit just so I can feel better though I’m 5’11 the shocks in the bike r real I used to HAVE TO SEE how daft my bikes would go…these days I have learned to enjoy the ride and look around w my last on the back this bike will hold 120 all day and I just don’t see a need to do that nor will I cruise that fast and I’ve got plenty to pass anyone at any time …!!!
I'd rather it look good than be fast. 80 mph is 80 mph. the biggest difference is how fast you get there when it comes to power
Facts, but it also matters how you ride, and YOUR individual purpose for riding. I ride long cross country rides, so stock is plenty for me. If I raced, that might be different tho.
Once I built my motor the top speed wasn’t the fun. It was having the power in the twisties .