This is how the compelling arguments in favor of Stormclocks look like : 1. Sovereignty 2. Independence 3. Culture 4. Faith 5. Identity This is how the compelling arguments in favor of the Empire look like : 1. Noooo, Stormcloaks are racists, how dare you! 😭
It's nice to finally find somebody who sees the main problem with people who support the empire. They only seem to be able to identify racism and act like it's the worst crime in the world. And add irony into the mix is the fact that they fail to notice racism that comes from other races besides of the nords. Including the high and mighty elves that people tried to defend.
The people who support the Empire also clearly don't seem to care for the fact that the nords are trying to free their native Homeland. I guess the word "native" only applies if you don't belong to a white group.
@@fdumbass Oh, yes, that "genius" argument about Ulfric being a Thalmor agent. If you read that document carefully, then you could see that Ulfriс was tricked into giving out information, telling him that the war was over, there was no point in resisting anymore. After defeating General Tullius, Ulfric begins to prepare for war with Talmor. If Ulfric is killed, he confesses in Sovngarde that he only wanted the good for his people. Your argument is literally for people with room temperature IQ.
The Empire has that cool Roman aesthetic, but the Stormcloacks are the right choice in the war. They fight to protect their people, and defend their homeland
I am an imperial who always joins the stormcloaks now because I have learned to look beyond trivial amounts of racist thought and started looking at the big picture. I have not forgotten how The Empire nearly murdered me without a trial and I also strongly believe that's natives have every right to not only rule themselves but to have their own opinions as well even if they are racist.
What will happen when the Dominion invades? Will the Nords, strong as they are be enough? I dont think so. The Thalmor will ravage the lands you claim to love. Long live the Empire.
the idea of nord culture being preserved is all well and good, but there's one big problem with joining the stormcloaks to do it. Ulfric is backed by the thalmor, according to papers you can find in the thalmor embassy (if i remember correctly). this one piece of information greatly changes the picture, as now it's not some nords who want independence, but rather the thalmor inciting civil war wherever they can in the empire to try and weaken & separate all the human factions, to then topple them all one by one, instead of fighting one big empire. now sure, they did win against the empire, to be able to enforce things like the talos worship ban, but ultimately they'd want to completely dominate humans as some form of inferior species, which they didn't quite manage to achieve, and why would they stop short if they could have achieved that? the empire is not as weak as it seems, then. on top of this, the empire may be planning another war against the aldmeri dominion themselves, which would probably only work if the humans were all united, and if they win then the nords would likely be given all the rights they want to worship talos. simply put, another war between the elves and humans is bound to happen at some point. and whether it will be a single, large war between the aldmeri dominion and the entire empire as prepared and powerful as it can be, or a bunch of smaller wars between the aldmeri dominion and all the divided human provinces (such as skyrim) one by one is determined by your choice on who you're backing in the skyrim civil war. alternatively, you might want to roleplay as a thalmor secret agent sent to back ulfric, or a young nord who got caught for whatever reason at the border by the empire and now sympathizes with the stormcloacks, or whatever. but if you want to make a smart decision for a human regardless of roleplaying, back the empire instead.
If you recall any comprehensive reading classes you once took, he was deemed an asset during torture and interrogation because of who his father was and has been uncooperative since before the markarth incident. An asset is not a friend, but a resource. They want the Civil war to happen as long as possible. This civil war is a war of redemption for ulfric. He is a nord, the bear of markarth, and a slayer of 1000 elves. He knows his utility as an asset in the great war will come to light and this war, a war for free expression, for sovereignty and religious freedom will be the only way in his eyes to right his wrongs
That same exact document you are speaking of also clearly states that the elves cannot allow either side to win because either side would be a force to be reckoned with no matter who won and so they had to keep the war going on. Learn to read for once and see the big picture. The Empire is not defending its people and so the Empire must be replaced and plus everybody knows that natives of every right to rule over their own land.
Nord "culture" and "religion" hasn't been mainstream for ages and is barely practised. The imperial cult and way of life presides over skyrim. Talos was just a man(not even a nord from what we understand) and is simply a symbol for Shor. Elves don't like Shor or Tiber septim so AD banned his worship as a condition of peace
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShay The Stormcloaks are not a ''force to be reckoned with'', they literally struggle to halt Imperial militia. The Thalmor wish to avoid an Imperial victory because the Empire poses an actual threat to the Dominion as a nation. The Thalmor wisht to avoid a Stormcloak victory because an ongoing war harms the Empire more in the long run than the Stormcloaks winning the war.
Depending on the race of your DB the answer could be because the Stormcloaks are fighting for a future that excludes you or flat out is hostile to your kind but if you play as a Nord than I could kind of understand the calculation being different
@@darthmadara7984playing as another race the stormcloacks even understand why you join them, the thalmor see themselves better and more superior than all races outside the altmer lol.
@@morbidzombii I know that siding against the stormcloak and strenghtening the Empire does not benefit the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks have their reasons but there problems of wanting a free skyrim is just not a non-Nord Dragonbern's problem. The problem, if the end game planetary threat. Killer demigod DB still even cares, is the Dominion, which most of the imperial forces are already preparing themselves for
I always play an imperial but even as an imperial, I joined the stormcloaks because I believe natives have ever right to control their own land instead of a Faraway emperor who is not connected to them at all and clearly doesn't care about their own well-being because he allows enemy agents to walk our roads and drag our citizens away.
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShayThat's allright but being either a non skyrim native or being an elf fearing that the nords might just back up their xenophobic rethoric with action once the empire is gone are legitimate fears that would affect the decision. Since it there is no consequence in this game however, knock yourself out with the cloaks
I am with the Empire. On a superficial level it makes sense for any non nord players as the nords are only fighting for themselves. The empire is preparing itself to fight the actual threat (the aldmeri dominion) and half of skyrim itself agrees so no need to pretend the whole of skyrim is persecuted. Half of skyrim realizes who the threat really is and my Non nord dragonborn sided against an undiplomatic and rather naive take of the situation. Conceivably, a nord DB could side with the storm cloacks if he is commited to use his demi-god powers to defeat the dominion but since we know he will not return in ES6 (hopfully not due to being trapped in apocrypha) it is hard to roleplay that he will see it through. My character knows he will abandon the world and he would rather leave a strong Empire behind rather than fracturing it further
I always play an imperial and yet I always join the stormcloaks because I look beyond the pettyful racism and focus on the fact that the elves don't want either side to win and I also believe that natives have every right to fight for their independence.
I used to fight for the empire on my first playthrough because I thought that would be better for all. But empires die eventually and this Empire is definitely dying and I say this as a historian.
The fact that empires die should not mean that citizens of said Empire should back a militia that further disrupt their land while the Empire is trying to prevent the extinction of their species as a whole. If it is its time in history to fall so be it but nobody should attack their homeland because they feel that it is probably screwed anyway especially when the next empire to rise is certainly some Aldmeri supremacy
Tiber Septim was a blessed man sure, maybe a demigod even but not at the level of Akatosh and the others for sure, a new human empire needs the Nords and Skyrim
He was literally a living avatar of Shor/Lokarn just like the Dragonborn. That is why the Greybeards greet you with the same words they use to greet Tiber Septim.
@@autisticpete5978 nord mythology is just delusion. Those tongs can call LDB whatever they want he is most Likely blessed by Akatosh and a kin toDragons
This is how I see it. A continued civil war weakens both sides and benefits the Aldmari Dominion. But the Empire and Skyrim can always be allies against a common foe (don't forget that Hammerfell drove out the Redguards). Really, for the sake of defeating the Almari Dominion in the future, the Empire should have just let any country secede that wanted too. But that would mean Cyrodil would be giving up its power over other provinces and other races. This is imperialism, as the ruling country holds power over and extracts resources from other provinces. Given that each province is a majority of one race, this make a defacto Imperial supremacist society. So while the Empire may be a meritocracy and a "melting pot" of a races, the overall effect leads to the Imperials disproportionally benefiting while the homelands of the other races have resources extracted from them. So the Empire is more of covertly racist. The Stormcloaks on the other hand, are fighting to keep their culture. The erasure of a marginalized ethnic culture is a form of ethnic cleasing. Granted this was the Empire's culture too (and, like Westernization, Imperial culture and religion has replaced many of the cultural practices of other ethnic groups outside of Cyrodil) and the Almeri Dominion is the reason for said cleansing. But while the Empire has a covert racism and Imperial supremacy, many of the Stormcloaks have an overt racism and xenophobia. If this was just towards the High Elves and Imperials as a reaction towards their oppression, we may be able to empathize with that as an understandable (but wrong) reaction to just wanting to not be oppressed. However, Nordic culture has hated elves for a long time and has even been distrustful of Bretons until they realized they were humans and not elves. The Dark Elf refugees from Morrowind are clearly oppressed in Ukfic's city as are the Argonians. And the Kajit caravans are looked at with distrust. There are also natives of Skyrim that are not the Nords, such as the Reachmen, who also seem to be unlikely to be granted the right to self determination from either side. Ultimately, I think Ulfric only cares about Ulfric and the Nords of Skyrim seem to be split on who they want their leader to be. But, at the same time, the Empire should not have a say in that matter and their oppression and Imperialism only radicalizes Skyrim's inhabitants towards the Stormcloaks and Ulfric (just like how imperial countries and colonizers end up oppressing and radicalizing their opponents in other countries. A real world example of this would be how the US involvment in a violent war in Afganistan and how the US was involved actually lead to a constantly increased membership of and growing support for the Tailiban over there ... who was origionally more of a fringe group). Talking away their religion, even though said religion was a product of imperialism (as it was not the Nordic pantheon, but the Imperial's religion), only served to radicalized the Nords of Skyrim and while not an in game feature (to my knowledge), I believe a realistic interpretation of the Stormcloaks would be to see many who don't even care about Ulfric, but join his cause because they want Nords to have freedom and independence (but, of course, you may have cult-like followers of Ulfric as well) and the Stormcloaks are the only currently viable path to get that.
rebellion against the Empire in the face of the Thalmor and their coming war is a fools ploy and playing into the egotistical ideas of that fool in Wildhelm is never good. He will only lead Humanity to disaster, the Empire needs the Nords as much as the Nords Need the Empire, only together can we unite against the Thalmor.
Go kiss the boots 👢 of the thalmor ........you might as well (if you're god was taken away) You would understand think of it from the perspective from the people of skyrim if it happened in any other part of Tamriel the exact same thing would have happened there being forced to stand with agreements that where not there's obviously it's what the thalmor want but some people like dying with some pride in themselves knowing that they stand and stood for what they believe
Both sides are wrong, they are both playing into the Thalmor goals, to destroy the Mundos and by só returning to their suposed imortality, as they believe, so for me skyrim means not joining either side and kill All Thalmor on sight
The imperial elder council is essentially just another council of the dominion. They are steeped like lipton tea in aldmeri corruption. They sold out their founder, they sold out hammerfell, and they sold out the people of skyrim. The empire let's the dominion go and kill worshippers of talos. Man kind is better off letting the empire fall and having a new human empire emerge from it, while cleaning the rot from her bones. Cyrodil couldn't be bothered with anything that isn't nibenese, and siding with the empire is siding with the dominion at the end of the day. You can think skyrim needs the empire but there is no empire. The empire is long past dead, and it died with the white gold concordat.
This can easily be countered by this. "What the Rebels like to forget is that the Empire is what's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim." Don't get me wrong, fuck the Thalmor. Period. They suck. But, the big thing in my eyes is this. Would you rather have NO Imperial backup? None? or an army of Imperial Soldiers, along with the Army of Stormcloaks. Both sides are awful. But when you think about it, only one will be able to whether the oncoming threat of the Dominion. Long live the Empire!
And that black smith chick in wijdhelm who smithes for the sole purpose of making swords to strike down imoerial soldiers. They don't even think about the dominion menace
Given the that the elves are behind the civil war in the first place. No! It is the Stormcloaks that are the problem. Their leader is working for the Thalmor. It is Talos which was from Skyrim to start off. It would be like England leaving the UK.
@@redwind5150 Using the Voice to murder your High King who barely had martial training while you were a war veteran? Surrending to the Aldmeri during the Great War? Surrending to some militia at Darkwater Crossing? Sending out assassins against Jarl Balgruuf?
I prefer the Imperials because of the outcome of the civil war. If the Stormcloaks win, then the empire weakens more to the point of going into the history books and the Aldmeri Dominion having total supremacy over all of Tamriel. But if the Imperials win, then the empire could have a fighting chance. Hammerfell managed to beat back the Thalmor all by themselves, and the lizards of Black Marsh managed to drive the daedra back by themselves. Having these two countries back would destroy the dominion entirely and abolish the treaty of the great war. Only through unification can the dominion be destroyed. This is just my opinion tho.
Okay soys, I'll make things easy for you: imagine that the Empire is the Russian Empire, and Skyrim is Ukraine. Don't hurt your brain thinking about it ahahaahahahahaha.
Or you could imagine the United States Empire and which side of the Civil War you would. Support. I would have fought to keep the US whole. Would you not!?
@@olegchromov3705 thanks for your honesty, but yeah the storm cloaks are more like the South trying to leave the USA than Ukraine, an already independent nation being reabsorbed as part of Putin's plan to rebuild the USSR .
@@olegchromov3705 Geo political analysis. I am not going to debate the war in Ukraine and your support for the confederacy on a skyrim video comment section
1:13 - 2:01 No. Talos is (or rather, was) an important and central deity in the Imperial Pantheon. He was absent from the Nordic Pantheon - to the point where Nord migrants to Cyrodiil even refused to attend chapel sermons in the Great Chapel of Talos. The Nords have become converted to the Imperial Nine Divines, but that does not make Talos a part of ''the Nordic Pantheon''. On the matter of enforcement - why does this video overlook Ulfric's considerable role in the enforcement of the Talos ban? 3:12 - 3:30 It is ironic you speak of the Stormcloaks ''restoring'' Skyrim's culture, when it is Ulfric who dishonors more of it than his Imperial counterparts. Like how he damns the Jarls and the Moot, ignored Torygg's legitimacy as High King, broke his oath, betrayed the Greybeards, and blasphemed through usage of the Voice. His whole campaign being, largely, centered around Talos - an Imperial deity - as opposed to Ysmir, or Kyne, or Shor for a return to Skyrim's roots, shows quite the opposite. 5:15 - 5:40 Based on character models, the opposite is implied. The young and middle-aged of Skyrim support the Empire because they look to the future and the chaos Ulfric brought, whereas the older folks seem more inclined to back Ulfric.
Honestly logistically the Empire is the better choice. But I think the Stormcloaks would be more enjoyable canon wise (racist as they may be.) Although really as long as we can agree on the fact the ceasefire ending is lame asf then we can all be friends lol.
No because Elesif deserves justice for how he murdered the high king in an unfair dual had he only used his sward he might've had a stronger argument but instead he cheated by bringing the dragon thume into it
i am not holding the shout against him but Stentor telling the DB that Torre respected Ulfric so much that he would have declared independence had he asked him shows that a barbarian cannot rule. He killed what could have been his most influential ally
@@darthmadara7984 In the same time, I guess it's a game of throne, right? If a "spared" Torrig changes his mind, or his allegiance again, as soon as it happens, Ulfric may be doomed. Better for Ulfric to seize directly the power, or some legitimacy, by getting Torrig out of the picture. In any case, the Dragonborn will decide the result of the war, right? Obviously, as usual, Tamriel is bloody and ruthless.🤓
@@Josian-ps7fb Ulfric did not accomplish what you are giving him credit for. The Dragonborn may decide to give him the victory but it was not part of his calculation. The most he could achieve is a divided skyrim. The only reason he did not get stomped is because the empire's forces are elsewhere preparing to face the dominion as they should. He could have let Torre declare independence and monitor the situation (keep a watcful eye on him) but he fractured skyrim instead and only a miracle aka dragoborn demigod can save him from the mess he created
@@Josian-ps7fb i think that is the way of the dragon not the nords. Fighting is talking, if it win it must be truth. The companions did not like the Fireballs i was blasting them with nor do any nords respect some paths to power. Ulfric shouting in a dual is controvercial but my always elven dovahkin will not be the judge of this action
@@user-vn8ky3xe3d Politics aside i tend to roleplay being from a more refined province. Any mod that has someone ask me where I am from, I never pick Skyrim
People always forget that Skyrim and the remaining Empire can still become allies against the Thalmor, along with Hammerfell, even after independence.
@@PrimarinaQueensomeone using their brains, splendid.
This is how the compelling arguments in favor of Stormclocks look like :
1. Sovereignty
2. Independence
3. Culture
4. Faith
5. Identity
This is how the compelling arguments in favor of the Empire look like :
1. Noooo, Stormcloaks are racists, how dare you! 😭
It's nice to finally find somebody who sees the main problem with people who support the empire. They only seem to be able to identify racism and act like it's the worst crime in the world.
And add irony into the mix is the fact that they fail to notice racism that comes from other races besides of the nords. Including the high and mighty elves that people tried to defend.
The people who support the Empire also clearly don't seem to care for the fact that the nords are trying to free their native Homeland.
I guess the word "native" only applies if you don't belong to a white group.
Average thalmor sleeper agent:
Chad
@@fdumbass Oh, yes, that "genius" argument about Ulfric being a Thalmor agent. If you read that document carefully, then you could see that Ulfriс was tricked into giving out information, telling him that the war was over, there was no point in resisting anymore. After defeating General Tullius, Ulfric begins to prepare for war with Talmor. If Ulfric is killed, he confesses in Sovngarde that he only wanted the good for his people. Your argument is literally for people with room temperature IQ.
For Skyrim!
My decision was made when my head was on the chopping block HAIL TALOS 😂
very short sighted tbh
But the Imperial dude helped you and Ulfric ran off
@@zigman3105 it's the same as the storm cloak dude helping you while the General buggers of.😁
The Empire has that cool Roman aesthetic, but the Stormcloacks are the right choice in the war. They fight to protect their people, and defend their homeland
I'm not a Nord though.
Ralof: You don't have to be a Nord to fight for Skyrim's freedom.
There is only one side, and Ulfric is the man to follow!
Even if he is a thalmor puppet
Only if all you see your DB as is a follower
I am an imperial who always joins the stormcloaks now because I have learned to look beyond trivial amounts of racist thought and started looking at the big picture.
I have not forgotten how The Empire nearly murdered me without a trial and I also strongly believe that's natives have every right to not only rule themselves but to have their own opinions as well even if they are racist.
What will happen when the Dominion invades? Will the Nords, strong as they are be enough? I dont think so. The Thalmor will ravage the lands you claim to love. Long live the Empire.
@@lexsavage3311you seem to forget about the DB
@@pink-kunnn honestly I feel like canon wise the Dragonborn wouldn’t intervene in the war
the idea of nord culture being preserved is all well and good, but there's one big problem with joining the stormcloaks to do it.
Ulfric is backed by the thalmor, according to papers you can find in the thalmor embassy (if i remember correctly).
this one piece of information greatly changes the picture, as now it's not some nords who want independence, but rather the thalmor inciting civil war wherever they can in the empire to try and weaken & separate all the human factions, to then topple them all one by one, instead of fighting one big empire. now sure, they did win against the empire, to be able to enforce things like the talos worship ban, but ultimately they'd want to completely dominate humans as some form of inferior species, which they didn't quite manage to achieve, and why would they stop short if they could have achieved that? the empire is not as weak as it seems, then.
on top of this, the empire may be planning another war against the aldmeri dominion themselves, which would probably only work if the humans were all united, and if they win then the nords would likely be given all the rights they want to worship talos.
simply put, another war between the elves and humans is bound to happen at some point. and whether it will be a single, large war between the aldmeri dominion and the entire empire as prepared and powerful as it can be, or a bunch of smaller wars between the aldmeri dominion and all the divided human provinces (such as skyrim) one by one is determined by your choice on who you're backing in the skyrim civil war.
alternatively, you might want to roleplay as a thalmor secret agent sent to back ulfric, or a young nord who got caught for whatever reason at the border by the empire and now sympathizes with the stormcloacks, or whatever. but if you want to make a smart decision for a human regardless of roleplaying, back the empire instead.
If you recall any comprehensive reading classes you once took, he was deemed an asset during torture and interrogation because of who his father was and has been uncooperative since before the markarth incident. An asset is not a friend, but a resource. They want the Civil war to happen as long as possible. This civil war is a war of redemption for ulfric. He is a nord, the bear of markarth, and a slayer of 1000 elves. He knows his utility as an asset in the great war will come to light and this war, a war for free expression, for sovereignty and religious freedom will be the only way in his eyes to right his wrongs
Not "backed by", it's "being used and manipulated by".
That same exact document you are speaking of also clearly states that the elves cannot allow either side to win because either side would be a force to be reckoned with no matter who won and so they had to keep the war going on.
Learn to read for once and see the big picture. The Empire is not defending its people and so the Empire must be replaced and plus everybody knows that natives of every right to rule over their own land.
Nord "culture" and "religion" hasn't been mainstream for ages and is barely practised. The imperial cult and way of life presides over skyrim. Talos was just a man(not even a nord from what we understand) and is simply a symbol for Shor. Elves don't like Shor or Tiber septim so AD banned his worship as a condition of peace
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShay The Stormcloaks are not a ''force to be reckoned with'', they literally struggle to halt Imperial militia.
The Thalmor wish to avoid an Imperial victory because the Empire poses an actual threat to the Dominion as a nation.
The Thalmor wisht to avoid a Stormcloak victory because an ongoing war harms the Empire more in the long run than the Stormcloaks winning the war.
I always go with Stormcloaks because why TF would I ever join the Empire who was just about to chop my head off for no reason?
Depending on the race of your DB the answer could be because the Stormcloaks are fighting for a future that excludes you or flat out is hostile to your kind but if you play as a Nord than I could kind of understand the calculation being different
@@darthmadara7984playing as another race the stormcloacks even understand why you join them, the thalmor see themselves better and more superior than all races outside the altmer lol.
@@morbidzombii I know that siding against the stormcloak and strenghtening the Empire does not benefit the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks have their reasons but there problems of wanting a free skyrim is just not a non-Nord Dragonbern's problem. The problem, if the end game planetary threat. Killer demigod DB still even cares, is the Dominion, which most of the imperial forces are already preparing themselves for
I always play an imperial but even as an imperial, I joined the stormcloaks because I believe natives have ever right to control their own land instead of a Faraway emperor who is not connected to them at all and clearly doesn't care about their own well-being because he allows enemy agents to walk our roads and drag our citizens away.
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShayThat's allright but being either a non skyrim native or being an elf fearing that the nords might just back up their xenophobic rethoric with action once the empire is gone are legitimate fears that would affect the decision. Since it there is no consequence in this game however, knock yourself out with the cloaks
I am with the Empire. On a superficial level it makes sense for any non nord players as the nords are only fighting for themselves. The empire is preparing itself to fight the actual threat (the aldmeri dominion) and half of skyrim itself agrees so no need to pretend the whole of skyrim is persecuted. Half of skyrim realizes who the threat really is and my Non nord dragonborn sided against an undiplomatic and rather naive take of the situation. Conceivably, a nord DB could side with the storm cloacks if he is commited to use his demi-god powers to defeat the dominion but since we know he will not return in ES6 (hopfully not due to being trapped in apocrypha) it is hard to roleplay that he will see it through. My character knows he will abandon the world and he would rather leave a strong Empire behind rather than fracturing it further
I always play an imperial and yet I always join the stormcloaks because I look beyond the pettyful racism and focus on the fact that the elves don't want either side to win and I also believe that natives have every right to fight for their independence.
I used to fight for the empire on my first playthrough because I thought that would be better for all.
But empires die eventually and this Empire is definitely dying and I say this as a historian.
The fact that empires die should not mean that citizens of said Empire should back a militia that further disrupt their land while the Empire is trying to prevent the extinction of their species as a whole. If it is its time in history to fall so be it but nobody should attack their homeland because they feel that it is probably screwed anyway especially when the next empire to rise is certainly some Aldmeri supremacy
I appreciate how you made both sides of the civil war look based.
Tiber Septim was a blessed man sure, maybe a demigod even but not at the level of Akatosh and the others for sure, a new human empire needs the Nords and Skyrim
He was literally a living avatar of Shor/Lokarn just like the Dragonborn. That is why the Greybeards greet you with the same words they use to greet Tiber Septim.
@@autisticpete5978 nord mythology is just delusion. Those tongs can call LDB whatever they want he is most Likely blessed by Akatosh and a kin toDragons
Yes. Freedom for Skyrim.
This is how I see it. A continued civil war weakens both sides and benefits the Aldmari Dominion. But the Empire and Skyrim can always be allies against a common foe (don't forget that Hammerfell drove out the Redguards). Really, for the sake of defeating the Almari Dominion in the future, the Empire should have just let any country secede that wanted too. But that would mean Cyrodil would be giving up its power over other provinces and other races. This is imperialism, as the ruling country holds power over and extracts resources from other provinces. Given that each province is a majority of one race, this make a defacto Imperial supremacist society. So while the Empire may be a meritocracy and a "melting pot" of a races, the overall effect leads to the Imperials disproportionally benefiting while the homelands of the other races have resources extracted from them. So the Empire is more of covertly racist.
The Stormcloaks on the other hand, are fighting to keep their culture. The erasure of a marginalized ethnic culture is a form of ethnic cleasing. Granted this was the Empire's culture too (and, like Westernization, Imperial culture and religion has replaced many of the cultural practices of other ethnic groups outside of Cyrodil) and the Almeri Dominion is the reason for said cleansing.
But while the Empire has a covert racism and Imperial supremacy, many of the Stormcloaks have an overt racism and xenophobia. If this was just towards the High Elves and Imperials as a reaction towards their oppression, we may be able to empathize with that as an understandable (but wrong) reaction to just wanting to not be oppressed. However, Nordic culture has hated elves for a long time and has even been distrustful of Bretons until they realized they were humans and not elves. The Dark Elf refugees from Morrowind are clearly oppressed in Ukfic's city as are the Argonians. And the Kajit caravans are looked at with distrust.
There are also natives of Skyrim that are not the Nords, such as the Reachmen, who also seem to be unlikely to be granted the right to self determination from either side.
Ultimately, I think Ulfric only cares about Ulfric and the Nords of Skyrim seem to be split on who they want their leader to be. But, at the same time, the Empire should not have a say in that matter and their oppression and Imperialism only radicalizes Skyrim's inhabitants towards the Stormcloaks and Ulfric (just like how imperial countries and colonizers end up oppressing and radicalizing their opponents in other countries. A real world example of this would be how the US involvment in a violent war in Afganistan and how the US was involved actually lead to a constantly increased membership of and growing support for the Tailiban over there ... who was origionally more of a fringe group). Talking away their religion, even though said religion was a product of imperialism (as it was not the Nordic pantheon, but the Imperial's religion), only served to radicalized the Nords of Skyrim and while not an in game feature (to my knowledge), I believe a realistic interpretation of the Stormcloaks would be to see many who don't even care about Ulfric, but join his cause because they want Nords to have freedom and independence (but, of course, you may have cult-like followers of Ulfric as well) and the Stormcloaks are the only currently viable path to get that.
i all ways go stormcloaks
rebellion against the Empire in the face of the Thalmor and their coming war is a fools ploy and playing into the egotistical ideas of that fool in Wildhelm is never good. He will only lead Humanity to disaster, the Empire needs the Nords as much as the Nords Need the Empire, only together can we unite against the Thalmor.
Parroting exactly what the game tells you with no nuance🗣🗣
Go kiss the boots 👢 of the thalmor ........you might as well
(if you're god was taken away)
You would understand think of it from the perspective from the people of skyrim if it happened in any other part of Tamriel the exact same thing would have happened there being forced to stand with agreements that where not there's obviously it's what the thalmor want but some people like dying with some pride in themselves knowing that they stand and stood for what they believe
Both sides are wrong, they are both playing into the Thalmor goals, to destroy the Mundos and by só returning to their suposed imortality, as they believe, so for me skyrim means not joining either side and kill All Thalmor on sight
The imperial elder council is essentially just another council of the dominion. They are steeped like lipton tea in aldmeri corruption. They sold out their founder, they sold out hammerfell, and they sold out the people of skyrim. The empire let's the dominion go and kill worshippers of talos. Man kind is better off letting the empire fall and having a new human empire emerge from it, while cleaning the rot from her bones. Cyrodil couldn't be bothered with anything that isn't nibenese, and siding with the empire is siding with the dominion at the end of the day. You can think skyrim needs the empire but there is no empire. The empire is long past dead, and it died with the white gold concordat.
The Thalmor patrols alone prove that the Empire is the Thalmor's bitch.
no to stromcloack evil Jarl Ulfric
"nord traditions" everyone is worshiping the empire pantheon
long live to empire
lmao, nope
This can easily be countered by this. "What the Rebels like to forget is that the Empire is what's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim." Don't get me wrong, fuck the Thalmor. Period. They suck. But, the big thing in my eyes is this. Would you rather have NO Imperial backup? None? or an army of Imperial Soldiers, along with the Army of Stormcloaks. Both sides are awful. But when you think about it, only one will be able to whether the oncoming threat of the Dominion. Long live the Empire!
And that black smith chick in wijdhelm who smithes for the sole purpose of making swords to strike down imoerial soldiers. They don't even think about the dominion menace
Given the that the elves are behind the civil war in the first place. No! It is the Stormcloaks that are the problem. Their leader is working for the Thalmor. It is Talos which was from Skyrim to start off. It would be like England leaving the UK.
Lol nope he's a coward
How is he a coward?
@@redwind5150 Using the Voice to murder your High King who barely had martial training while you were a war veteran?
Surrending to the Aldmeri during the Great War?
Surrending to some militia at Darkwater Crossing?
Sending out assassins against Jarl Balgruuf?
I prefer the Imperials because of the outcome of the civil war. If the Stormcloaks win, then the empire weakens more to the point of going into the history books and the Aldmeri Dominion having total supremacy over all of Tamriel. But if the Imperials win, then the empire could have a fighting chance. Hammerfell managed to beat back the Thalmor all by themselves, and the lizards of Black Marsh managed to drive the daedra back by themselves. Having these two countries back would destroy the dominion entirely and abolish the treaty of the great war. Only through unification can the dominion be destroyed. This is just my opinion tho.
No thanks. Ulfric only cares about Ulfric and even admits he was wrong in Sovengarde.
Skyrim is for the Nords.
Okay soys, I'll make things easy for you: imagine that the Empire is the Russian Empire, and Skyrim is Ukraine. Don't hurt your brain thinking about it ahahaahahahahaha.
Or you could imagine the United States Empire and which side of the Civil War you would. Support. I would have fought to keep the US whole. Would you not!?
@@darthmadara7984 I would absolutely not.
@@olegchromov3705 thanks for your honesty, but yeah the storm cloaks are more like the South trying to leave the USA than Ukraine, an already independent nation being reabsorbed as part of Putin's plan to rebuild the USSR .
@@darthmadara7984 how do you know his plans? Are you a mind reader?
@@olegchromov3705 Geo political analysis. I am not going to debate the war in Ukraine and your support for the confederacy on a skyrim video comment section
I always side with the empire. The stormcloacks have the shtty looking towns.
1:13 - 2:01
No. Talos is (or rather, was) an important and central deity in the Imperial Pantheon. He was absent from the Nordic Pantheon - to the point where Nord migrants to Cyrodiil even refused to attend chapel sermons in the Great Chapel of Talos.
The Nords have become converted to the Imperial Nine Divines, but that does not make Talos a part of ''the Nordic Pantheon''.
On the matter of enforcement - why does this video overlook Ulfric's considerable role in the enforcement of the Talos ban?
3:12 - 3:30
It is ironic you speak of the Stormcloaks ''restoring'' Skyrim's culture, when it is Ulfric who dishonors more of it than his Imperial counterparts. Like how he damns the Jarls and the Moot, ignored Torygg's legitimacy as High King, broke his oath, betrayed the Greybeards, and blasphemed through usage of the Voice.
His whole campaign being, largely, centered around Talos - an Imperial deity - as opposed to Ysmir, or Kyne, or Shor for a return to Skyrim's roots, shows quite the opposite.
5:15 - 5:40
Based on character models, the opposite is implied. The young and middle-aged of Skyrim support the Empire because they look to the future and the chaos Ulfric brought, whereas the older folks seem more inclined to back Ulfric.
Honestly logistically the Empire is the better choice.
But I think the Stormcloaks would be more enjoyable canon wise (racist as they may be.)
Although really as long as we can agree on the fact the ceasefire ending is lame asf then we can all be friends lol.
How is it “racist” for them to want to protect their people and their homeland?
No because Elesif deserves justice for how he murdered the high king in an unfair dual had he only used his sward he might've had a stronger argument but instead he cheated by bringing the dragon thume into it
No! "Might makes right"! That's the traditional path of Nord culture, not a "murder"!🌨😉🌨
i am not holding the shout against him but Stentor telling the DB that Torre respected Ulfric so much that he would have declared independence had he asked him shows that a barbarian cannot rule. He killed what could have been his most influential ally
@@darthmadara7984 In the same time, I guess it's a game of throne, right? If a "spared" Torrig changes his mind, or his allegiance again, as soon as it happens, Ulfric may be doomed. Better for Ulfric to seize directly the power, or some legitimacy, by getting Torrig out of the picture. In any case, the Dragonborn will decide the result of the war, right? Obviously, as usual, Tamriel is bloody and ruthless.🤓
@@Josian-ps7fb Ulfric did not accomplish what you are giving him credit for. The Dragonborn may decide to give him the victory but it was not part of his calculation. The most he could achieve is a divided skyrim. The only reason he did not get stomped is because the empire's forces are elsewhere preparing to face the dominion as they should. He could have let Torre declare independence and monitor the situation (keep a watcful eye on him) but he fractured skyrim instead and only a miracle aka dragoborn demigod can save him from the mess he created
@@Josian-ps7fb i think that is the way of the dragon not the nords. Fighting is talking, if it win it must be truth. The companions did not like the Fireballs i was blasting them with nor do any nords respect some paths to power. Ulfric shouting in a dual is controvercial but my always elven dovahkin will not be the judge of this action
First
After 4 years of Trump I could never join the White nationalist Stormcloaks.
You will never be a true son of Skyrim
@@user-vn8ky3xe3d Politics aside i tend to roleplay being from a more refined province. Any mod that has someone ask me where I am from, I never pick Skyrim