It wasn't adapted to 5E well. A 5E party at the recommended level (10-14) will not be challenged by any of combat encounters in the dungeon - which are generally between CR 2 and CR 5. True there are a couple POSSIBLE CR 11 encounters near the end, and then the big one against Acererak. But even the Acererak fight is a pushover for a tier 3 party who can (and should) finish him in two rounds. "But the traps!" one might say. Sadly most of the traps are hardly an inconvenience. With most DCs around 15, a tier 3 party won't be failing many saves (one with a paladin might not fail ANY saves). The trap damage (outside of three potential insta-kill traps) is laughably non-lethal, with most trap damage only doing a POSSIBLE 2d8 to 2d10 damage. There are some poisoned traps, but 5E has so many ways of preventing poison damage at tier 3 that it's entirely likely the party will be immune to poison (heroe's feast, etc). I've run it at level twice for 5E and even with small tweaks, the parties were more bored (or annoyed) than scared. The excitement definitely wears off after the third or fourth "deadly trap!" that does only 6 damage. And while there are a lot of traps, each trap doing negligible damage over and over starts to feel more like a "HP tax" than something deadly or dangerous to be avoided. But at its core there IS an interesting dungeon here; one with legendary mystique and with some legitimately creative ideas. As written it makes a good challenge for tier 2 characters (say around level 8-9); but to make it a good, enjoyable challenge for tier 3 characters the DM will need to upgrade the encounters and traps.
I ran it relatively recently for my group and let them be level 20. I upgraded all the DCs on the traps a bit and ran poison as in 1st edition. I told them beforehand. We all had an absolute blast. Yes, they succeeded and yes they smashed all the combat but that was hardly the point. It was a super fun experience for all of us :) That said, you’re 100% right. As written, the 5e version is little more than a nuisance for a reasonably prepared tier 3 party.
I love the Tomb of Horrors and Acererak. The module really does challenge players (though in my experience, it some times helps to make sure they have what they need before hand) and its honestly just fun. And Acererak is my favorite villain because, well... he's just a ass who enjoys tormenting characters lol
I LOVE this dungeon as a piece of art + history more so than an actual thing to play and engage with. Not that I'd be opposed to trying it, but my players really don't like the sound of it from how I've described it, haha. I love learning about the old school D&D era and all the neat things about it. Btw, I am really digging this fairly new video essay format you're doing with this type of video. Keep it up.
I honestly couldn’t agree more. This dungeon as a piece of D&D history is truly remarkable and represents such an interesting point in the history of the game! While I haven’t run it myself, I’ve talked about it with my players and we are going to be doing it, as written, pulling no punches soon! We can’t wait :) Thank you for the feedback about the new format! I am having so much fun with the video essay format so I’m glad you’re enjoying it too!
Thank you! I think this dungeon is such an interesting part of D&D history and I agree, I love learning and reading about it. Especially when in the context of the older editions.
I got the chance to play this for like an hour before the entire party died by entering the sphere of anhilation. Spent more time making the character than going through the dungeon
How did I miss this post?? I decided to put alot of TOA in my campaign set in Exandria! I love this campaign book, it is so fun. I reflavored 9 trickster gods into 9 creations of Zehir, one of them being Uk'otoa. I haven't used TOH yet, but this makes me want to check it out :D
ToA is such an awesome spiritual successor to ToH and that sounds like such awesome flavour for an Exandria campaign! Glad you’re getting good use out of call of the Netherdeep haha :)
I agree with Jacob on his points with TOH but it's interesting to see you talk about it. It's definitely an interesting dungeon to talk about, regardless of which side you're on
100%. I fully appreciate why some people HATE this thing but I just think it represents such a unique time in D&D history and it's kinda fun to explore and talk about!
Ha no problem, it’s a great mood song. It’s called “The Empty Moons of Jupiter” and can be found here th-cam.com/video/yjY4cdOXXes/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BzLzopHbGINf3SyL Enjoy!
I suppose the real question is how did players back in the day (a) cope with, and (b) like the module? Did they see it as unfair and cryptic, or as a fun challenge?
Have had many players be able to navigate the tomb using the poem, finding several secret passages and progress. Not sure why you think the original is hard to read. Its pretty straight forward. Not every module is meant for every player. The Tomb of Horrors is an extreme example and is meant for expert PLAYERS of the game. MOST players simply aren't up to the challenges presented here, which does lead to frustration on the part of many. But it is a master class on dungeon design, and demonstrates the extremes of the game to be sure. Not a bad video, but the background music while you're narrating is a bit overbearing and should be eliminated.
I thought Jacob's take was more about Jacob and his crew rather than about the tomb. There's no wrong way to play the game but sometimes a playstyle & player expectations are utterly incompatible with an adventure and it just isn't for you. The 'experimentation' or obscure unsolvable traps assertion... honestly if you look at the options available for the current incarnation of D&D and all the options that could be used, that complaint frankly strikes me as a creativity deficit. Run straight as is in all it's deathtrap glory, the Tomb has never more more beatable (and yes there are clues in the tomb that aren't obscure if you think about them even if you don't have much system mastery to utilize all the other tools at your PCs disposal).
It wasn't adapted to 5E well. A 5E party at the recommended level (10-14) will not be challenged by any of combat encounters in the dungeon - which are generally between CR 2 and CR 5. True there are a couple POSSIBLE CR 11 encounters near the end, and then the big one against Acererak. But even the Acererak fight is a pushover for a tier 3 party who can (and should) finish him in two rounds.
"But the traps!" one might say. Sadly most of the traps are hardly an inconvenience. With most DCs around 15, a tier 3 party won't be failing many saves (one with a paladin might not fail ANY saves). The trap damage (outside of three potential insta-kill traps) is laughably non-lethal, with most trap damage only doing a POSSIBLE 2d8 to 2d10 damage. There are some poisoned traps, but 5E has so many ways of preventing poison damage at tier 3 that it's entirely likely the party will be immune to poison (heroe's feast, etc).
I've run it at level twice for 5E and even with small tweaks, the parties were more bored (or annoyed) than scared. The excitement definitely wears off after the third or fourth "deadly trap!" that does only 6 damage. And while there are a lot of traps, each trap doing negligible damage over and over starts to feel more like a "HP tax" than something deadly or dangerous to be avoided.
But at its core there IS an interesting dungeon here; one with legendary mystique and with some legitimately creative ideas. As written it makes a good challenge for tier 2 characters (say around level 8-9); but to make it a good, enjoyable challenge for tier 3 characters the DM will need to upgrade the encounters and traps.
I ran it relatively recently for my group and let them be level 20. I upgraded all the DCs on the traps a bit and ran poison as in 1st edition. I told them beforehand. We all had an absolute blast. Yes, they succeeded and yes they smashed all the combat but that was hardly the point. It was a super fun experience for all of us :)
That said, you’re 100% right. As written, the 5e version is little more than a nuisance for a reasonably prepared tier 3 party.
I love the Tomb of Horrors and Acererak. The module really does challenge players (though in my experience, it some times helps to make sure they have what they need before hand) and its honestly just fun. And Acererak is my favorite villain because, well... he's just a ass who enjoys tormenting characters lol
100%
Acererak is a perfect villain for this ridiculous adventure! I love it too just for what it is, it’s such a wild ride haha
I LOVE this dungeon as a piece of art + history more so than an actual thing to play and engage with. Not that I'd be opposed to trying it, but my players really don't like the sound of it from how I've described it, haha. I love learning about the old school D&D era and all the neat things about it.
Btw, I am really digging this fairly new video essay format you're doing with this type of video. Keep it up.
I honestly couldn’t agree more. This dungeon as a piece of D&D history is truly remarkable and represents such an interesting point in the history of the game! While I haven’t run it myself, I’ve talked about it with my players and we are going to be doing it, as written, pulling no punches soon! We can’t wait :)
Thank you for the feedback about the new format! I am having so much fun with the video essay format so I’m glad you’re enjoying it too!
I love hearing all the takes on this dungeon, and the reasonings. I love specifically the comparisons between the 5e version and original. Nice work.
Thank you! I think this dungeon is such an interesting part of D&D history and I agree, I love learning and reading about it. Especially when in the context of the older editions.
I got the chance to play this for like an hour before the entire party died by entering the sphere of anhilation. Spent more time making the character than going through the dungeon
Based on the art I thought this was going to be about the Tomb of Annihilation. My party completed that adventure last year and it was a blast.
The art of the devil is actually originally from the Tomb of Horrors! Tomb of Annihilation is in some ways the successor to the original :)
Considering I've been playing on and off since 83' i feel its a shame I've never played this module, mostly due to being terrified of it.
That’s a pretty valid reason not to haha! The thing is genuinely terrifying!
How did I miss this post?? I decided to put alot of TOA in my campaign set in Exandria! I love this campaign book, it is so fun. I reflavored 9 trickster gods into 9 creations of Zehir, one of them being Uk'otoa. I haven't used TOH yet, but this makes me want to check it out :D
ToA is such an awesome spiritual successor to ToH and that sounds like such awesome flavour for an Exandria campaign! Glad you’re getting good use out of call of the Netherdeep haha :)
I agree with Jacob on his points with TOH but it's interesting to see you talk about it. It's definitely an interesting dungeon to talk about, regardless of which side you're on
100%.
I fully appreciate why some people HATE this thing but I just think it represents such a unique time in D&D history and it's kinda fun to explore and talk about!
Ik this video is 2 years old but what is the music from? I want to use it in my campaign
Ha no problem, it’s a great mood song. It’s called “The Empty Moons of Jupiter” and can be found here th-cam.com/video/yjY4cdOXXes/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BzLzopHbGINf3SyL
Enjoy!
I suppose the real question is how did players back in the day (a) cope with, and (b) like the module? Did they see it as unfair and cryptic, or as a fun challenge?
Wow thats wild. The culture of dnd has changed so much.
Definitely a huge change!
This module is a crawl... Players start poking every stone scared of their own shadows. 😂
It felt like you are suppossed to play through it multiple Times. Which is kind of weird for an adventure.
Very weird indeed. Pretty much everything about it is weird though haha
Have had many players be able to navigate the tomb using the poem, finding several secret passages and progress.
Not sure why you think the original is hard to read. Its pretty straight forward.
Not every module is meant for every player. The Tomb of Horrors is an extreme example and is meant for expert PLAYERS of the game. MOST players simply aren't up to the challenges presented here, which does lead to frustration on the part of many. But it is a master class on dungeon design, and demonstrates the extremes of the game to be sure.
Not a bad video, but the background music while you're narrating is a bit overbearing and should be eliminated.
I thought Jacob's take was more about Jacob and his crew rather than about the tomb. There's no wrong way to play the game but sometimes a playstyle & player expectations are utterly incompatible with an adventure and it just isn't for you. The 'experimentation' or obscure unsolvable traps assertion... honestly if you look at the options available for the current incarnation of D&D and all the options that could be used, that complaint frankly strikes me as a creativity deficit. Run straight as is in all it's deathtrap glory, the Tomb has never more more beatable (and yes there are clues in the tomb that aren't obscure if you think about them even if you don't have much system mastery to utilize all the other tools at your PCs disposal).
Actually, Seth Skorkowski has the best review of the original Tomb I've seen. This is not an adventure for beloved characters
I dont know about that one chief it seems like straight torture but to each there own ig lol
Hahaha that’s a fair take! I actually ran it a few weeks ago with my group and we all had a blast! To each their own indeed!