The Dark Reality Of Celebrity Endorsed Mega-Churches | State Of Grace | Refinery29
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- On this episode of State Of Grace, our host, Grace Baldrige looks deeper into the hyper surrounding celebrity endorsed mega-churches in L.A. She quickly learns they are more often practicing the opposite of what the preach. Press play to discover the truth about their inclusivity!
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State Of Grace is a series that explores the intersection of human rights, sexuality, and faith. Host Grace Baldridge dives into controversial societal realities that Americans face everyday and how to navigate the modern world while remaining faithful.
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What do you think the solution to this issue is? Share your ideas with us below!
Try to make it less extremely and more religious.
Science and freethinking are welcoming to everyone.
I think it's important to keep having this discussion. LGBTQ gets persecuted and flogged out of synagogues as Jesus said would happen. I still believe it is a sin because the Lord said so but I too have sins and that's why love covers all and deliverance and sanctification is a long and tough process. I believe deeply that so many Christians who are gay are ordained by God Himself in an undeliverable state for the moment because perhaps the Lord is truly shedding light on the Pharisees and evil tax collectors in corrupted churches. God sometimes allows certain seeds of the devil to get the bigger picture finished like in the book of Job. I believe most churches are indoctrinated today and most spiritual leaders lack the child-like faith and true humility to be able to decipher the parables that require holy understanding. Many churches seem to be seeds falling off of hardened rock hearts and people forgot that God is Love.
It is wise to stand on the narrow path and not to err on either side but to see the bigger picture. Do not condemn others unless you have already made yourself self righteous before God by your own delusions and arrogance. Many LGBTQ people today are truly walking the walk of discipleship but don't fall too deeply into its trap by overidentifying to the point it becomes sin. Remain humble and constantly question who you are to the Lord and He will deliver wonderful answers in time. It's a tightrope.
You guys, even if you don't like gays, I don't think that you should judge them for only God is worthy to judge. We all have sins and we all come from God. Though you don't like someone, you must learn to accept them.
*Real satanism is the "church" system(s)!!!* Everything else is just a diversion, each created to give "church" goers a false sense of security!
The Lord's prayer, _On Earth as it is in Heaven_ and Acts 2:41-47
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Christianity as a service and church as something to go to is of doctrines of devils and seducing spirits.
Parable of the sheep and goats, the rich man and the beggar Lazarus. Ezekiel 16:49 Daniel 4:27 Job 29(why he is called perfect and upright) Isaiah 1&58 Zechariah 7
A welcoming church is not an accepting church. And we all should know the difference.
Cody Johnson I totaly agree with you that a welcoming church isn't necessarily accepting of homosexuality, instead knows well the difference between the sin and the sinner so they don't cast him/her aside along with what they did or going through. Welcoming churches should acknowledge clearly that there is no progressiveness in the law, but there is a law of progressiveness, that is people who progressively learn to abide by it. But they are talking about another problem here regarding misleading advertisement and the lack of teaching and guidance since there are people in this video who spent a whole year going to Church and found out about non acceptance of the homosexuality not through a sermon, a reading or counciling, but through a testimony of a pearson who used to struggle and overcame same sex attraction. What about the guy who was told he was a good Christian and then was denied a leading position?! Those aren't welcoming churches, but misleading and heart breaking churches!
A G No one spoke about casting out anybody in this video: people just left at the faintest hint that living in a gay relationship or practicing homosexuality isn't something a cristian should do and so is sex outside the mariage, but do people whine about it over and over or do they wonder arround from church to church looking for acceptance and trying to change it!?! I really don't get it! Why on earth are they so aproval thirsty and can't stand even a bit of disapproval that they just evaporate at the minimum of it? Gay or non gay, but from psycological point of view that's the index of an imature human personality. No body kicked them out and ofcourse you can't give to people that are living in irregular situations leading positions and it's been like that since forever, but there's so much else that they can do! Any place you go, there are rules you may like or not and decide freely wether to abide by them or not or even move on.
Good point.
Dani By It took me a moment to get what you were feeling. The problem isn’t that they want to be praised, but that they treated homosexuality as a sin that “needs to be changed” or “can be changed.” And left a church they thought was safe for them (because religion and lgbt is known to be violent towards one another), disappointed in that home they loved. Loving god and being gay should be hand and hand. It’s not a sin what they are doing in my eyes, the context was taken out of those verses. But, that’s another topic.
They want to feel loved for who they are and not see it as a big deal. They want to praise god and get the same treatment as any other REGARDLESS of their sexuality. It’s not a case of “why do you always need approval” and more a case of “why do these churches care if they love god and lead their life following him.” More so of “why does it matter?”
This is why I still have a problem with the Pope.
A true enemy is better than a false friend.
Yes
Better the devil you know🤷🏽♀️
Wat dat mean??
Dang you hit the mark on that one 👏🏽
A true enemy is more clear than a false friend.
“Of all the bad men, religious bad men are the worst.”
--C.S. Lewis.
Not all Christian men are bad. All have sinned. No one is any better then the whole
@@Kens1966 I agree with you, maybe you just interpret the C.S. Lewis quote wrong ? the way I interpret it, is as follow: some men are bad and some are good, of all the bad once, the worst are the religious once, as they are hypocrites as they don´t do as they preach, much worse then an honest crook.
@@Kens1966 #notallchristians. Spare me.
The American Evangelical movement is a cancer. Kill it with fire.
Ken P. I think you may have interpreted the quote wrongly. It states '...the BAD men' not of all the good men or of all the men. Religious BAD MEN... I hope you understood that statement the right way
"6/26/08 From The Lord, Our God and Savior
The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
This question was asked of The Lord: Lord, what do you think of Todd Bentley and all these megachurches?
Thus says The Lord: No more shall My people call out My name, and then run after men in authority, seeking after the vain glory wrought within the churches of men! No more shall they run greedily after vain glory, or heap up vanities to themselves, in MY name! For they have done a detestable thing in My sight! Lo, I have beheld their hearts, and within them I have seen their vanity, vanities on top of vanities and many vain deceits!... Woe to the churches of men who seek after vain glories, and build themselves up by vanity and greed! Woe to them! For they shall be the first to be thrown down! They shall be brought down to the ground, they shall no more stand!
Look, My sons and daughters, look at all these detestable things wrought within the churches of men, and tell Me, what do you see? What do you see, beloved? What have they done to My name?!... Woe to these people of excess! Woe to all these churches of men, who pollute My name and steal from My glory! For they build great churches of brick and wood, magnificent buildings of concrete and steel, yet the poor cry at the doors!
Yes, they build great and extravagant houses,
They amplify their voices like the wind,
Yet the cause of the widow and
The fatherless goes unheard!...
Shall I not recompense them for all these things?!
Shall I not abase all these self-appointed leaders,
These charlatans, in front of many witnesses?!...
Shall I not come upon them quickly
And strip them of all their clothes,
Leaving them naked and desolate?!
Behold, I shall be terrible to them, yes, I shall be a terror unto them, when I sweep across the land and destroy all these houses which bear My name! For My anger is kindled, and My face is set hard against them! No more shall they seduce My bride and rape My daughters! No more shall they cause My children to sin! FOR I, MYSELF, HAVE SEEN IT!
My sons and daughters, listen to My voice and give heed to My spirit. For I tell you the truth, if these great and extravagant churches were to call for the Holy Spirit in truth, and I did send it in the fullness of My strength, none would stand, all would fall down. Thus I did not send it, nor has My presence been among them, for I do not know them. All is vanity and vain glory, corruption by flattery, filthy pretense for evil gain. For in My presence all fall down and give Me glory; from the righteous to the wicked, all shall fall down and give Me glory.
For who can stand before The Lord Most High? Who?! Not this man! For he has lifted up his head, and taken it upon himself to speak in My name, though I have not sent him. Therefore I shall surely humble him, and he shall be severely abased in the sight of many witnesses. For I alone uplift, and I alone abase, says The Lord.
Thus says The Lord: The light has gone out of the churches of men, and My hand is removed. Therefore what remains, and what spirit dwells there? Deceptions clothed in falsehoods, whitewashed and covered over in purple and scarlet, doctrines of demons! Therefore prepare, all you who remain in My love,[1] for the time is at hand; the Trumpet is blowing and the warning is sent down. Yet those in your land cover their ears and will not listen; indeed, they hate the sound of this Trumpet and refuse to give heed! Thus I shall be terrible to them, and nature shall rise up in its fury and fight against them!
Yet The Lord is not without mercy, for all these things are but a call to awake. For your land and its people sleep; behold, they lie down in beds of wickedness, embracing sins of every kind. And those among the churches slumber also, with all these self-appointed prophets, pastors and preachers lulling them to sleep, though the storm rages.
Behold, sin inundates the streets and alleyways, even to the broadways, a great deluge of wickedness; the surge of which has come and shall not be turned back, until its pinnacle is reached and that written is accomplished. And behold, the eyes of many shall be opened in that day, and they shall see. Yes, they shall call out and choose Righteousness, and I Myself will save them out of all their troubles; I shall surely deliver them from the mouth of the dragon.[2] Then they will know, I AM THE LORD.
Therefore, My servants, again I say to you,
Turn away from this world and prepare!...
Call out to your beloved
And speak to them My name,
Give a shout to your kindred and countrymen;
Blow the Trumpet and sound the alarm!...
For the Days of Sorrow are here
And the Day of The Lord is upon you;
Behold, it waits at the door
And is about to come in...
Says The Lord."
www.thevolumesoftruth.com/Woe_to_the_Megachurches_of_Men
I’m a straight Muslim what am I doing here? Oh yeah! I’m educating myself about other religions, cultures, and different topics!
Yes, my friend, you are a student of all things. Curiosity is the beginning of understanding and empathy. Blessings
This is NOT Christianity. This is people taking liberty for licence. Our God is NOT pro homosexuality
@@ngufanikojo6430
Who am i, or you to call anything unclean that our Lord has made clean?
He forgave all of us on the cross. No matter straight, gay or Martian.
In the Kingdom, none of us will have sexuality.
There will be neither man nor woman. We'll be genderless.
Remember this my brother /sister ;
Our Lord came to save, not judge and he hung out with a lot of very messed up people, drunks, users, homeless, straight, gay... The lot.
One of his most beloved disciples was a prostitute, right?
He heals and says not to harm ourselves again (sin).
Any brother or sister in this community unforgiven because the world sees them as different?
The world has no say in the matter in the eyes of the King.
Only the King.
For God so loved the world (all of us. Straight, gay or whatever) that he sent his only begotten son that WHOEVER so shall believe in him shall be saved.
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL mankind, especially those believing.
All.
He turned nobody away.
The workers of iniquity are something entirely different.
They speak in his name, preach in his name, but it's all for filthy lucre. Most probably don't even believe.
Just ponder this for a while and know that I'm not saying this to you with any unkindness intented. Your a good soul who loves our Lord.
But just consider the matter. All is backed up in scripture.
🙏😇❤️
Watch The Bible Project on TH-cam, this video is actually misrepresenting the church.
@@spiritof6986 God loves everyone yes, but he also calls for repentance. Its about honoring the image of God that we are made in. He doesn't want anyone to sin. It does not justify what God deems sin. He died for it, he didn't die so we could continue to sin. We must continually grow in Christ and cut off our old selves to serve his will.
Every mega church I’ve ever been to has been cultish and exploitative
Ava Beck key word - exploitative 👌🏻
Also, if we look at the biblical model of the early church, people met inside houses on a small and intimate scale. I think there is no way to truly do community in a mega church.
That's part of their purpose.
Christel 스텔 yes completely agree. A church big enough to call mega only leaves a false sense of community and a fat amount of money that could have gone to help people in need but didn’t
every church I've ever been to has been cultish and exploitative
no offense to anyone: I live in LA & I can’t stand these types of churches. i don’t want my pastor looking like he just stepped out of All Saints. and the theatrics are tooooo much. there are some great churches out there, but these types of churches ain’t it.
Totally agree with u
I was just talking about this. I agree with you.
Yes! Check out preachersnsneakers on Instagram, it’s all the designer clothes these mega church pastors where, the complete opposite of what serving the poor should be 👎
Just out of curiosity, when you say there are some great churches, what is your definition of "great"?
These aren’t churches this is theatrical spectacle that hides corruption like paint on rotten wood!!!
“We do not reject people for their orientation or any OTHER ISSUE...”
Like period that says it all
How is your sexual orientation an issue like-
I started crying when he said that drag would be a place where Jesus would be, and when that girl said she couldn’t be loved. No one should feel that way.
Totally agree. Jesus himself would probably not be welcome.
Have you seen the part of the Bible where Jesus cleared out the temple because He said it was being used inappropriately? He made a whip - I can tell you I wouldn’t want to be touch by a whip made by The Son of God.
“May Christ establish His Throne upon the ruins of our self-love” Francois Fenelon
@@markreilly52 you are right Jesus would not be welcome there! Because those people dont know Jesus. The world has lost its face. End is near
I'll never be loved, being worthless garbage myself.
@@Winter78ful There is no love there's only pain and hatred and death.
It's important to know the difference between MEGAchurches and churches. Megachurches are cultish, watered-down Christianity, have pastors that don't practice what they preach, and usually take obscene amounts of money from attendees for their own personal gain. Churches are usually welcoming, have concrete beliefs that they stand by and practice, and use donated money for helping people throughout the world.
In that case the Catholic Church is a Megachurch?
Not the 4 churches I've been to, one of which was running underground crime & another where the youth pastor was molesting kids. Both smalltown 'churches' BTW...
@@BernicePanders I'm not talking about individual catholic churches. I'm talking about THE Catholic Church. The one that supported the Nazis and actively supports and covers child raping priests on six continents.
I also see them as borderline cult status. Do your homework and listen to your heart.
@@LeCheckmate how did they support the Nazis?
They tried to be diplomatic but at the end a lot of priests ended up at concentration camps and they saved a bunch of Jews.
Protestant Church played an almost equal role in National-socialism than the Catholics on the whole, even within the leadership ranks of the Nazis. And while Hitler himself came from a catholic background, his views on Jews were pretty much a modernized copypasta of what Martin Luther (who was as much of an anti-Semite as the later Nazis) wrote about them before. And Hitler openly credits Luther for that.
“Stromie is a wife, dogmom, and a Christian.”
Man, How does she do it?
B. Belai hahahah
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, I thought that too.
How did she become a dog's mom? Was she artificially inseminated with a puppy fetus?
@@TabithaElkins dont make it weird
“Is it really a home if the welcome is conditional?”
- Grace via Refinery29, 2019
Grace Baldrige is a fantastic documentary presenter! She should and could be on prime-time, she presents issues for LGBTQIA people with candor and compassion, whilst also being dead serious, it's great!
State of Grace is quickly becoming one of my favorite series on this channel. I've always been curious about those types of churches as a non-Christian , what a great video
GONETOMARS Thanks for watching!
+onetomars Thanks for being here!
Yes, I’m obsessed with this segment! It’s so important
Seriously agree. Grace is exceptional and I appreciate her interest in religion.
This are not real church of God
This was a lot like a *good* Vice report. Nice to see Refinery 29 taking on serious topics in an investigative format.
bolding the word "good" => 😂
Check out ‚shady‘ by refinery29 if you haven’t yet, it’s amazing!
What bothered me is their use of biased prompts when they were interviewing the ex-mosaic community members. "Why do you think that Mosaic is NOT transparent on the issue of LGBTQ inclusion?"
It just irks me because as much as I want to believe that this is a fair representation; this is definitely a very biased way of reporting...
Vice owns Refinery29 now actually
@@Ali-yu7qz maybe the questions resulted from conversations not aired and for the sake of brevity they seem prompted? But great point.
From the little bit I've seen of Kanye's church. I have to say, it wasn't a church, it was just excuse to make an album.
PrincessKLS actually what his church and many many many of these so called mega churches are actually are part of Satan’s master plan to introduce the ‘New Age’ which claims there are ‘many’ ways to God and heaven when the bible clearly says the opposite. Through Jesus Christ alone is the only way to the Father. These churches are paving the way for the arrival of the antichrist (Satan) who will deceive many many many people who haven’t actually read the bible into thinking he’s the messiah and he will force every human to worship him and who ever does not will be killed. After the 7 years of his terror on the earth called the tribulation period the ‘Apocalypse’ comes and Jesus second coming will once and for all banish Satan to the depths of Hell. God Bless y’all
It's a tax write off.
@@andiincali.4663 Preach
I honestly believe Kanye is a true Christian. It’s just the church is not what you’re used to seeing. It’s like Christian churches in California are different from what the world knows as Christian churches. Is like mega church pastors are getting paid to preach where as real pastors they have an actual job on the side and they’re not using the church’s money for their personal needs. I do agree that mega churches are somewhat Satanic.
Hey has said it is not church, just a ministry.
I used to go to a small Episcopal church in middle of nowhere Wyoming. The town has less than 1,000 people. The congregation is only about 30 people max. And this church is the most accepting and loving church I have ever been to. The pastors, members, congregation everyone was supportive, accepting, kind, true Christians. They love and support the LGBTQ+ community (there are a couple of church members that are part of the community even). To these wonderful people no matter your status, sexuality, race, life circumstance, ect. you are a person who deserves to be loved and supported. If a small church in one of the most conservative "red blooded" areas of the country can do this, why can't others? I am far from religious but I know that Jesus would not be ok with how so many of these "Christians" act in his name.
That's great to hear! (I'm an Anglican btw) Can you tell me where exactly this church is? And its name?
Try to read your bible once in a while o?
True love means telling the truth. True Christians will warn people that there is a cliff at the end of the trail they're on.
That is a Church I would Love to attend. I am Straight but I Love people so Long as they Love God are not psychopaths, pedo’s or satanic.
I'm an Episcopalian too!
The churches need to be upfront and honest. The fact they aren't doing this is very sneaky.
Girlforaction exactly! Some friends asked my husband and I if we wanted to join them for a Sunday at church. I didn’t really want to go because I didn’t grow up Christian and I am very non-religious and have my own different beliefs. I said “I’m sorry, but I’m not interested in going somewhere that doesn’t support others and judges them for who they love” and they told me “our church is VERY accepting. The people are really nice. You should come!” So I decided to come along thinking nothing of it, until they started talking about how they “accept everyone they are scared for them and understand they are sinning and those who do not follow the church will go to hell”. They were talking about how pro-choice people are demons (I’m pro-choice) and how homosexuality is a sin and that they “love” homosexuals but want them to change so they don’t go to hell.
As soon as I got into the car I told my husband “I NEVER want to go to a place like that again. They are hateful and full of shit”. When I told our friends I do not wish to go back there because they are in fact not accepting or loving at all, our friends looked at me like I was crazy and than continued to tell me “you should come to church” for another 2 months until I flat out said “I don’t believe in those things and never will”.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience.
Girlforaction it’s ok. I didn’t think they would be any different to be honest. I just wanted to be nice to our friends but I know that I will never go back to a place like that again. I didn’t care for church in the past and I certainly don’t care for it now. The friends tell can me all day how if I don’t believe what they believe in, than I’m wrong and will go to hell. But the only thing they’re doing is pushing me farther away.
Maayan Foster I'm a European who grew up in an atheist home and became christian later on in life and while reading your coments I wasn't sure wether to laugh or cry and whom to pitty first you or your friends. In Europe we basicly have catholics, orthodox and the protestant churches of the first and the second reform and some of those embraced pentecostalism, but they're are well organized and totaly transparent and yes there are some sneaky new churches from U.S. trying to root in every now and then, but they're often very much critisized by their local protestant brethren while catholics and orthodox seem to ignore them, or at least they do in public. On the other hand the situation of the protestant churches in the U.S. is a TOTAL humongous mess: they have over 30.000 different denominations and many of those are diy churches started by people whose personal strival to prosper wasn't satisfied in the place where they belonged, so they started their own church and doctrine to fit them better! Honestly, I'm convinced that most of those denominations are just plain cults that have very little to do with religion. The sad part is that we totaly lack the descernement in the western world (including Europe) and we let the cults freely prosper and call them religion to begin with. In some parts of the world, like India, the government grants freedom to cults, yet recognizes them as cults and keeps them listed and under observation instead of embracing them and promoting them under the name and the benefits of religion. One of the reasons of the fall of the Roman Empire were to many cults with a political agenda and the main reason why the christianity became promoted as the religion of the state was that they didn't identify with a political party and they had the ability to unite people from every social extraction and grant stability and common values. Christianity is about encountering that crucified Jesus that has risen and establishing a personal every day relationship with him through the Holy Spirit. I never met anyone who was motivated to convert through the fear of hell. I guess you bumped into one of many autoreferential "churches". If you ever feel like setting a foot in a real church, check out first that it's denomination history doesn't interrupts for 18, 19 or 20 centuries straight after the Acts of the Apostols (first century) and reemerges only with the birth of its founding pastor and I guarantee you won't have any disastrous first experience impacts. You might even like it enough to show up a second time and the time after that, and never stop, like it happened to me. Honestly, for me the religious experience became as exciting and over whelming and sides along with the most beautiful moments of my life like falling on love or having kids. The only regret my dad had on his death bed was due to his full self awerness that he never gave God a chance in his life and he was really sorry for that but it was too late. I'm not trying to proselitys you, but inspite lowsy belivers and bad representatives religion is not just for the weak or the total failure like the current secularism is yelling it out while it punctually omits that they're doing it becouse they know well that true religion is actually capable of shaping strong individuals and societies inspite all their flaws and contribute to the progress of human kind and their civilization since the beginning of times. We make all sorts of life experiences, then why not the expilerience the religion which can be one of the most powerful ones?
Maayan Foster Christians aren’t hateful or full of shit. It’s funny how you seem to have this narrow minded stereotypical view of us and yet expect Christians to be liberal in their thinking. We don’t have to support the killing of innocent children in the womb. That doesn’t make you a demon. I would say you’re misinformed- since I used to be pro choice too but a demon?Really? Also, we don’t have to accept homosexuality. It’s a sin like many other sins we are against. Also, we don’t believe in 'changing' homosexuals- whatever that means. The clear Christian message is to walk with Christ your saviour.
This was a wonderful article written by Jackie Hill Perry, who was a lesbian. Hopefully she enlightens you on how Christians should approach the issue of homosexuality.
www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-heterosexual-gospel
Yeah, I'll always have my faith (Christian), but I am fully aware that the organised church has some serious issues.
Sio Head the Bible?
nellymusical What is that supposed to mean?
it's not the organized church, just the ones that have strayed away. Many churches are still faithful to God's word regardless of how many other churches have fallen and compromised to fit in with the world.
@@Elizabeth.Holiday the word of God is not subjective, that's clearly refuted in 2 Peter 1:19-21 "no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will", so scripture is not up to human bias but up to God's purposed meaning.
Christianity upholds belief of objective truth, so the true meaning of text isn't up to the interpreter but rather is determined by the author. Humans however, may distort scripture and read it with bias, like the warnings of 2 Peter 3:16.
Slight differences in between translations are barely noticeable, if you go on Bible hub you can search up a verse and read across 30 translations on the same page. Compare them for yourself and see exactly how similar they are.
What you may be referring to, "one man's empathy and kindness becoming supporting sin", that's a confusion of doctrine. The Bible is black and white on the issue of homosexuality being sin, true empathy and kindness is respectfully but truthfully telling someone they're in sin but still loving them, just as Jesus did. Jesus was in the company of sinners, loving them and getting to know them, but always telling them like it is. Sin is sin. We all need salvation, else we will be lost and eventually eternally separated from God. Worldly "tolerance/empathy/kindness" doesn't factor in the end result of someone's soul, since the world doesn't know God.
@@augustine.c8204 You mean 'contested', not refuted. Refutation generally requires proof/evidence. At the end of the day, the only thing we have proof of is that human beings wrote the bible based on each writer/editor's own human experiences. This is the epitome of subjectivity.
As atheist I find this very interesting how everyone thinks their way is the right way
Well, as an atheist, don't you also think your way is the right way? I think most beliefs are like that.
I was an atheist until I realized that believing in something really adds to your life
Shadi Alaha, well, being an atheist is a belief. It’s a belief of not believing in religion
Anonymous [26490] believing in nothing is not the same as believing in something spiritual, either way I still support your views of course I am just speaking from my experience xx
@@shampaugs6409 you can be spiritual without believing in a specific god/belonging to a certain religion. I'm an atheist but I get my spirituality from meditation and volunteering in non-profit organizations. Spirituality literally means "the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things". I guess in the end, I just BELIEVE that you don't need to belong to a certain religion to be a kind person.
As a CHURCH, they should not be ashamed or hiding their stance on anything, regardless of what it is.
If a church has no real belief system them what’s the point of going? Is a church has no meaning then why are these people fighting to get in?
Americans: *Laugh at Western religions and faith systems for having myriads of deities and rituals*
Also Americans: *We have 700 hundred megachurches who aren't taxed or monitored, some of them even refuse to provide shelters to others during thunderstorms and floods. Our churches systematically discriminate against anyone they see as a threat to their doctrines and we have pastors who own multiple private jets and mansions while preaching a life of simplicity and truthfulness.*
*Oh yes, totally forgot to mention that we also have Westboro Baptist Church and Church of Scientology- two premier institutions of superstition, misinformation, pseudoscience and hatred, leading the nation forward on a path of self destruction -one celebrity at a time.*
*'Murica, f@**#k** yeah!*
Dr. Arjun Menon i agree but the reason why Churches cant provide shelter are for legal reason :/
Dr. Arjun Menon he says while judging.
The Westboro Baptists are literally just one extended family that formed a church and are more notorious than influential really .
Well said.
Dr. Arjun Menon you forgot the biggest problem, pastor pedophilia. They have immunity because they are perceived as “saintly good” and are not regulated and the laws aren’t forced on them. They have a crime ring, they create a list of boys that are easy to silence.
Thank you for telling our stories and for bringing this abuse to light.
Those of us who attended and gave time & money to Mosaic never thought we’d see accountability. Thank you for helping us to finally get that. It has been so healing.
Y’all are HEROES!!!
Alex G, Sorry you had to experience that at Mosaic. I think I understand what you mean by "abuse" but I would just say to be careful with the use of the word. It's unfortunate but abuse has very specific connotations. Hope you find a true home.
@@MM-yj9dr What we experienced was abuse. I do not use that word lightly.
Thank you!
It's God's word not abuse.
Im with you. I was an intern there for quite some time, and damage was done. I’m so grateful to see these conversations being held publicly and unapologetically.
@@suzweinstein I can only imagine! Can you explain?
“I don’t need a church to tell me I’m right, I need a church to tell me when I’m wrong”. Father Mike Schmitz
Wouldn't be Christianity without making people feel guilty and ashamed. Original sin. It's abusive to raise children in that. One thing about trauma is that people keep inflicting their own traumas on their children. People think they've chosen a faith, that they've discovered a revelation.
Why would I trust an institution that has committed SO much wrongdoing over the last 1000 years, to tell me that I'm in the wrong? My moral compass as an atheist is far superior to that of oh so many so called Christians these days (at least in America). If they won't stand up and admit their own wrongdoing, they have forfeited their authority.
@@draculawolfman1502 The whole system is abusive and brainwashing. Implanting the notion of some otherworldly being that will smite you or cat you into eternal damnation for your actions, yep, that's a CULT.
DJM-anon th-cam.com/video/XzkwdSsfV8U/w-d-xo.html
DJM-anon nobody is obligating you
Churches don't have to pay taxes. Imagine being able to start a business and not ever be taxed... that'd be amazing, right??!!
@Maddie Rowe actually there are PLENTY of businesses that don't get taxed. A 501C3 is pretty easy to obtain.
@@mosesking2923 not if you want to make a profit. But a megachurch makes huge profits.
The biggest cons are the clergymen. Religious organizations bring in millions of dollars and pay little or tax. They invite you to part of them and keep promoting. If you really want to be part of a legalized scan. Holy shitballs.
Why? They want money!!! The more the better.
I’ve been an atheist for as long as I can remember, so this is fascinating to me. The Mormon church is doing this as well- saying they accept gay people, but that’s not quite the case... they all know they’re loosing members, so they want to expand their membership and hopefully get them “straight again.” as always, another detailed and interesting video by Grace!
I’m so glad I found this video. Yesterday, I drove past mosaic. It caught my eye. I thought it looked so trendy and certainly I belonged there. Today (Sunday) I started researching mosaic with intentions to attend a service. I went to their website where everything sounded great, inclusive, and again, like I belonged there. Then, I came to TH-cam and looked up mosaic, I wanted to watch their videos and a service. This video was right under mosaics video. I’m so grateful to have found this and know that I definitely don’t belong there. Thank you.
When my brother and I were in high school he came out. It was the year of our Catholic confirmation sacrament and I was very protective of my brother and wanted everyone to accept him the way I did. He was not open at church. The second to last Sunday school class before confirmation this guest priest came in from another diocese (I should add we lived in Italy, I know people have different experiences different places) and he basically told the class "ask me any question about the scriptures and I will know the answer." And I asked him "what did Jesus say about being gay" and he really didn't answer my question. He quoted Paul he quoted some other stuff but I kept asking "no I want to know what JESUS and GOD said." It Got tense because he didn't have an answer and eventually we were all dismissed. A couple days later the priest at our church called my mom and told her about the confrontation and wanted to question me AND me brother separately. He told my mom we could not be confirmed Catholic if our beliefs and practices did not line up with those of the Catholic church (won't confirm my brother if he is gay and won't confirm me if I support him). They tried to out my brother and my VERY Catholic mother told my brother that the priest could go f**k himself if he calls himself a man of God but won't welcome him with open arms. But my brother decided the confirmation was a sacrament between him and God and we all lied and put on a smile for our last days at that church. I really struggled with my faith and didn't understand why my brother would do that, but I understand now. Being religious is bigger than the church you pray in and the priest at the altar. That priest is a man who sins. He didn't let that priest take away his identity as a Catholic. And in the end my brother won. We are CATHOLICS who do not believe God sees being LGBTQ+ as a sin!!! Now we have a pope who openly accepts the gay community and says it is not a sin. Times change slowly but surely. Soon all churches will perform gay marriage ceremonies and everyone will feel welcome. Have faith. Don't let anyone take that away from you
Read the second book of corinthians and u will see exactly what God says about the gay lifestyle. Cool story tho
The chirch was right to Go with Gods words and not bend for ur brother. They are here to spread Gids word not change Gods word to suit individuals and their lifestyles. The Lord made it clear.
@@enlightenedbeauty4128 Too bad your own leader doesnt agree with you....and the Lord did make it clear; its man who messed up the translations
“You know it’s like real church when they bring out the tambourines” lol so true
“We are the church and you are welcome here.” 😭❤️
The Church is ran by Jesus Christ.
I went to church until I was eighteen and hated every minute of it. It always shocks me that church has such a powerful hold on people. I was raised mormon and church was three hours long plus you went to activities on tuesday. I also had seminary during regular school hours. There is nothing that could ever tempt me back to church.
latter day saints of Jesus Christ is not Christianity.
Same! I hated seminary so much.
People are often raised to believe that every good thing that happens to them is because of their faith in god, and every bad thing is a test or proof that your faith isn’t strong enough. It really messes a person up. It’s hard to unlearn that. I know grown adults who are afraid of demonic possession type horror movies...they KNOW it’s not real but it just FEELS real and reminds them of emotional trauma . They can’t watch it
@@xianism Here's the thing nothing bad happened to me I simply hated the culture. In my opinion the mormon church has very hateful views towards people, i'm not gay but the suicide rate among gay teens in mormonism is high. You said some very kind things and I hope people that go to church meet more people like you.
I’m sorry you had such bad experiences. Sometimes it takes time for people to change. People make up the culture that you’ve experienced. My experience living in Detroit and being a member of the Church was nothing like what I experienced once I moved to Utah. It’s not perfect by far, but changing for the better in multiple ways including shorter services and streamlined seminary. I hope you find yourself willing to try again one day. 😊
This is definitely one of the main reasons I left my church. My old church is considered a mega church. I’ve caught a pastor telling a leader not to lead a student just because he was gay.
Yes, come as you are but be renewed by the Holy Spirit. Sad these churches are watering down the gospel 😔... “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
2 Timothy 4:3
Agreed :) Jesus welcome sinners to forgive them and make them brand new, in His image.
We are all born with DNA with sind and we chose with help of God to not do them
@@brandibreen8260 the church is not Jesus. That said, then maybe the LGBTQ+ community is seeking inclusion in the wrong place. If they have received acceptance from Christ, who cares whether or not churches include them?
The church is the body of Christ.
Come on, yes!
Grace is the type of person I want to be: willing to have discussions with those who disagree with who I am. Her series is so interesting and give me so much more insight into things I don’t know much about. I can not wait for another episode
I served at Mosaic for 3 years, from 2015 to 2018 (I've served with some of the people in the video). I was so hype in the beginning because I feel like I belong. People were so welcoming and the messages by Pastor Erwin really led me to know who God really is and it’s beyond wonderful. There are a lot of amazing selfless people there but there are also a lot of hurting people. Hurt people hurt other people. And I was one of many who also got hurt. Honestly, Pastor Erwin is one of the most kind real people I’ve ever met. But unfortunately, the attendees and even the leadership is not so nice. I don’t think Pastor Erwin really know how to deal with that. Even I don’t really know what the solution is too. People who are hurting, they gossiped, and they are mean. I’ve seen a lot of people got hurt and the multiple dramas were overwhelming to me that I have to leave. I’ve found another church that I love now but I still listen to Pastor Erwin’s messages.
I’ve been ostracized from my childhood church. I was invited along with my husband by a church. We poured our heart and souls in there for a year. We were told our 20 year union was a problem it we wanted to continue to be welcomed, we needed to “change”. Apparently the holy ghost had made us blind to our sin but folks sitting in the next pews were uncomfortable. So we left and were broken hearted. We found another church within the UCC but money is mismanaged and we recently decided to leave. At 45 I’ve decided to stop trying with organized religion and for the first time in my life I feel free, I don’t feel guilt or dirty. I’ll never go back to church. This is it for me.
Maybe we should look at what God says instead of what the physical church will say
Queen Isabella amen and amen 💕
Which god? Where?
Look, if God has something to say, why doesn't God just get on the horn and say it to everyone instead of just revealing it to certain people at certain times and in certain places?
@Tiayra It's called virtue and yes He did speak on it
@Natalie Arlene how do you decide whether one religion is right or wrong. If you think there is a god that interacts with the world in a specific way, or should be worshipped in a specific way, how do you decide between religions that claim different things are true?
@Natalie Arlene I'm asking you, I want to know about what you think specifically
The state of grace series is one of my favorites on this channel, because not only does she bring such awareness to an lgbt topic, but she truly deep dives into it!!!!
+taliasclafani So glad you're enjoying it! :)
Refinery29 😊
One of the main reason I'm no longer a Christian is because how I would see churchgoers and how other people that claim to be Christians pick and choose what parts of the Bible they wanted to follow and what part of the faith was convenient for them. also how most of all the Christians I have ever met in my life are two-faced they are nice up front but they are a whole other person when you turn your back.
laura cee I’m so sorry you had this experience with Christianity and Christians. I know exactly what you mean, and we absolutely need to do better. This makes me so sad. I’m so sorry. 😞
@@SamMKKK Get rid of religion already.
steeve steeve No. You can have your feelings about religion, and I can have mine.
Picking and choosing is such a huge issue, as well as hypocrisy (both which are actually huge factors that need to be considered in this topic). I'm so sorry to hear that you experienced this laura cee.
People, don't let christians turn you away from Christ. Please ask God to help you read your Bibles, because without Him it's basically just reading words on a page without spiritual revelation.
+lauracee Wow, that's crazy. Thanks for sharing with us!
Church belongs to Christ. It should not be based on my or your ideas of what a church should be or should not be.
But your belief in chris is a book written by the understanding of men????
@@niffellbique3744 Yes, Of course! So, what's your point?
@@niffellbique3744 it wasnt the understanding of men. IT WAS GOD/CHRIST's law that made men wrote about it.
For real
@Templar without question
I wish State of Grace was available 10 years ago when I was still volunteering in a local Christian radio station.
I was such a confused kid back then, had so many questions but often didn't raise them because we'd get raised eyebrows from our fellow volunteers, hence we often discussed it secretly among my trusted also-confused friends.
This series would have been a great help in addressing a lot of those confusing issues often prevalent in Christian communities.. Sadly, I left that community because of those issues...
It is frightening that these mega churches exist at all, but it’s all about the money. This outright homophobia being preached or insinuated by so many (Americans) is appalling. Not just homophobia - blatant racism and intolerance of minority groups.
I’m English and Atheist. I have no need of religion, but understand why many people do.
I now live and run a Charity on a small Caribbean island which too is homophobic, caused by religion and ignorance. I mentor many children, do not tolerate any kind of intolerance and one of my proudest successes is one of “my” girls giving a speech in her school asking others to be accepting of homosexuality as we can’t help who we love, and how it has nothing to do with pedophilia (common misconception).
+sandrawatkin It's really sad. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
State of Grace is an amazing series. Thank you Refinery29 for keeping this going! I feel like I come away more enlightened every time I watch an episode.
"Being trusting is not a fault." I felt that. My heart goes out to anyone who has been betrayed, outcasted and denied the love they deserve.
I'm not Christain and I live in a conservation Asian country, where conversations like these are not encouraged. I hope you keep spreading the good word, Refinery29!
could these churches' stance be "accept the sinner but not the sin" and that's why they're "welcoming" to everyone?
laura kopylov yes it is, there is no missed message. The Bible talks about it!?
Of course that's their stance, well, at least of the ones that don't openly advocate for LGBT+ genocide. It's even in the response email read at the beggining. But people have been so abused within churches, religious communities and very likely within their families that they jump in at the first welcoming sign. They wanna "convert" them, or at least that's what church leaders and goers believe bcs they don't know shit about biology nor human history.
Yeah and that’s the Christian way
It’s not hard to see what the churchgoers are asking of the church, and the churches are not being transparent about their beliefs.
I left Christianity a while back. The politics are fucking ridiculous, the fact that I’m trans and bi shouldn’t have anything to do with my character as a person, and I was getting tired of the mental gymnastics with reconciling the Bible with physical reality.
good point, BUT they are deceptive in their welcoming message.
Church was so harmful to me as a woman. So many sexist attitudes. I'm so grateful to be out, because i cared so much about it at the time and i was certain i would be a Christian forever.
Yes very true. I feel like some churches dont even put women in leadership positions when they are capable. I'm still trying to navigate this world and I'm in between if I should still have faith (in jesus and god) or if I should become atheist. I hate the bible and its stories (very misogynistic) except the stories of jesus.
I agree so much as a single mom, they would shun me as a home-wrecker and the wives would warn their husbands or not allow me to stay over in their home because they were married. The church only accepts married couples .
@@asdfghjkl-oo7lv i can definitely relate! I think youre strong for pursuing what you can really believe in fully. For me the tipping point was when i realized that i could trust my self and my feelings more than what was expected of me, and then i knew deep down what i really believed. Theres a podcast called The Life After Podcast that really helped me also :) good luck on your exploring!
@@august21xp amen, i totally recognize those attitudes. When really they should be celebrating single parents for being strong af.
@@missmelodies52 thanks a lot!
I've really been enjoying these State of Grace videos! Grace has such a calm and understanding demeanor and has an incredibly soothing voice! I could watch these all day! Thank you Grace and Refinery29 for these interesting and informative stories!
+jadekrahn So glad you're enjoying!!
This is so powerful. Good for you for digging into this! 🙌
Hey Refinery29, great episode. Can you also make on on Mosques/Islam and LBGTQ+?
Thank you ♡
I’ll hold my breathe for this one.
There’s a mosque in DC with a gay imam. I wanted to go there but my in laws weren’t down with that.
No matter what side of this debate you are on, I think we can all agree that churches should be open and clear about policies. I love Grace, and everything she is doing for this series.
If a church isn’t following the Bible or at least teaching it in full, then don’t call it a church. Church is a Christian term. Anyone can make up a worship center and had at it. But for some reason, particular groups of people are obsessed with Christianity and churches.
I wouldn’t even care if the LGBT attacked the Christian church if they put the same amount of energy attacking Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Jewish centers. But they don’t! They NEVER do.
Mona Lisa cool
Grace, I love your content. This video was so incredibly moving and such a good conversation starter. You are doing fantastic work and its incredible to see. Thank you so much for your work.
I'm a heterosexual male atheist but I'm really truly impressed with what you are doing and helping it's people who of faith who also identify with the LGBT community, and I'm sure many atheists would also agree with me
Major respect and keep it up
I am LOVING this series. Keep up the good work! Xx
Very interesting. As a human and Christian, I have always been curious about mega churches.
Thank you for your hard work!
Please don't ever end this series!! I always enjoy watching Grace and her chaotic gay energy 🏳️🌈👌
This is why watering down the word is very problematic Gods word is very upfront..
Yes it is.
You actually think the the un-watered down version of Christianity is better?
@@f.k6920 The unwatered AND the correctly translated.
exactly.
Florence Katanha you question obviously went over their head.
Awesome video! Thanks to the brave and wise people who shared their stories. The only thing worse than hatred is conditional love. Every time I was failed by a church, I realized how deeply I was loved by God.
As an affirming Christian ally who is a member of an affirming Christian church I want to share that this is an amazing series and I really appreciate it!! It feels like we’re part of the minority in the world of Christianity, but at the same time shows like this - which are bringing awareness to the reality of the “religious left” (so to speak) - are very helpful. There is a third option. You don’t have to choose between who you are and what you believe. Thank you again for this awesome series - loving it!!
+bleuberry So glad you're enjoying the show! :)
I love this series !! keep them coming please
Evil and hate in churches needs to stop. Period. God bless us all.
yeah no fan of organized churches I have my faith and it’s my own
Jordan S same
same. but i do long for community and someone to just worship with :(
I actually respect people who make up their own faith over people in keep harassing an existing faith to change. This is not okay in any major religion. But everyone has the right to worship whatever.
Naomi N. You need to find a group to belong too. All I ask is that people leave all major religion alone and stop asking them to change. Just start your own church
Well said , its a personal relationship
Here is the bottom line: The church is about service to God. The church is about spreading the gospel to the lost. The church is about being a living, physical example of the love of Christ. The church functioning as it is supposed to is not always glamorous, it is not always show-worthy, it is not always earthly-rewarding. The church is made up of people, believers, who still struggle with sin (whatever sins they may be). Christ dined with thieves and He befriended a traitor and He saved a murderer from Hell and gave him new life and a mission. That is what Christ is about. The perversion of that by believers, by mega-churches and local churches alike, by nonbelievers--is dangerous and harmful and it is simply not what how we are taught to live in Scripture. Do not deny churches the right to preach the Bible--all of it. The honest, rough, heartbreaking, encouraging, terrifying, and redeeming parts of it alike. Because it is the truth. Because that is a full representation of Christ. Because LOVE without Truth isn't love.
Madison B amen 🙏🏽
Amen.
Madison B alright Madison we get it you believe in Jesus.
Yes I agree. It is stated that everyone who is in Christ is a new creation, the old is gone.
Amen..... Lead everyone to the Lord and He will do the rest 😊😊
You are 100% right, we are the church. We can gather and worship wherever and whenever. A building, stage, music and lights are not necessary. 💙
This was eye opening! Thanks for sharing Refinery29!
More Grace please! I’ve watched her since she was on Pop Trigger, so happy to see her here!
Thank you so much for posting
My church makes the distinction between "welcoming" and "affirming" - we are affirming of the preciousness of EVERYONE which gives all people equal status and ability to serve or be served. Period. I am so very sorry for the pain each of you has experienced at this deception/bait and switch tactic. It is supremely unchristlike.
ohh, grace... i feel you so much. you are absolutely amazing. i too went through going to churches until i finally decided they only housed toxicity for me, and i have never been happier finding my own tribe and clan through my very own friends. so much love to you
I really appreciate this series!
I appreciate these videos so much and cannot express how deeply I was touched by that last sentiment: "we are the church, and you are welcome here." What I would not give to hear that from my own former church community.
+kaelak We're so glad this meant something to you! ❤️ Thank you for being here!
Thank you Grace for your great reports. They always get me thinking.
As always, love your reporting, Grace.
“We are the church and you are welcome here” that made me bawl holy shit
+saraqz Same!
“We are the church. And you are welcome here.” Beautiful
Grace I have the upmost respect for you. Thank you so much for bringing to light these issues.
Thank you for being so brave to show us this Grace. It must not have been an easy assignment.
Thanks heaps for this, you’ve raised some really challenging (for me) points about how we are all one in Christ, and how inclusion is belonging.
Why would they want to go to a Christian church and then complain about them not being accepting? That’s like me bringing ham to a synagogue and then getting upset when they don’t eat it? 🤔
People choose to bring ham. People don't choose their sexuality.
Are you saying that only straight people are allowed to exercise their faith within a community of people that share their faith?
Do you want to segregate all religious gatherings by sexuality?
LeCheckmate I said nothing about segregation. If you go to gay church the Bible still going to be the same.🤦🏽♂️
@@itsaaronlolz You said nothing about segregation yet write 'gay church' instead of church. Would you like to elaborate?
LeCheckmate if you go to a gay church or an LGBT friendly church or any church the Bible doesn’t change. I’m not religious and I am gay and I wouldn’t want to be part of an organization that considers me an abomination. If you are okay with being an abomination go right ahead, preach.
@@itsaaronlolz hey I'm actually in your position (I'm not gay tho). Like the bible is very misogynistic and homophobic (I remember I read somewhere that God burned a city because it was turning gay? It was in the old testament.). I'm on the verge of becoming atheist but in the new testament it says that jesus and God love everyone and is accepting. Did God change his views on people? Did he change what is sinful and what is not. Do gay Christian's only follow the new testament. I'm so curious and I would like to know other's opinions.
I love these videos, and I love Grace! Keep up the good work ❤️
Great job Grace! This topic is important to so many people!
“Dragcon is a place where Jesus would be” - hahah I love that 😭💕
He would, but I don’t think that’s the same as condoning it. He ate with Zaccheus the tax collector (tax collecting being viewed as a negative profession as it enriched Roman colonizers at the expense of Jews), but the outcome of that meeting was Zaccheus returning the money he collected; only then did Jesus proclaim him saved. In christianity, Jesus did die on the cross and everyone who believed gets autosaved regardless of “sin”, but it doesn’t change that sins are still sins (though the understanding of what people consider “sin” may change through time and societies). I’m pretty whatever on any organized religion and believe anyone should do whatever they want as long aa it doesn’t hurt people, but this view of Jesus as a party animal is kind of a misrepresentation of the historical figure.
@뽀동이 proper exegesis of scripture makes it plain that when Jesus was around anyone, many of them were never the same again. The practice of sin in their lives was over, as he said to the woman in John 8, "Go, and sin no more." Or in John 5:14, he tells the paralytic he healed to stop sinning or something worse will happen.
Though not everyone recieved Jesus, he was always present for people to come as they are with the hope of freedom from who they thought they were.
So, yes, Jesus could be present at a drag show even if only one soul is changed for the better. Scripture makes that plain.
Be blessed
@@erenjinchuriki But Jesus preached about economic sin. He didn't speak on sexual matters. He never ever said anything about being gay, or trans, or a man who enjoys wearing dresses and makeup. Not once.
@@leenycallahankhan6966 God made them man and woman, it is written in the scriptures multiple times. A man parts from his mother and father to unite with a woman and become one flesh in service to God. I think it's pretty clear.
@@leenycallahankhan6966 God did speak on it and, John 10:30 (KJV) I and my Father are one.John 14:9 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Isn't all those flashy stuffs the exact opposite of what Jesus what promoting?
“I don’t need a church to tell me I’m right, I need a church to tell me when I’m wrong”. Father Mike Schmitz
I attend Hillsong church and also am a student at Hillsong College. This video is really eye opening and I am glad that this issue is being brought to light. It saddens me that so many people have been turned away from the church because of their sexuality, when all Christians are called to love one another and spread the gospel. No church is perfect because no person is perfect, but I hope to see more and more inclusive and accepting churches within this world. And bringing attention to this issue will definitely help us get there.
And I love what the reverend said at DragCon. “This is where Jesus would be.” He totally is.
Yes, Jesus welcomes all sinners. And He also offers forgiveness and a brand NEW life. Never ever, whether alcoholic or homosexual, does He leave you in your sin.
🙂 they always preach about God’s love but remove the part of fearing God and obeying his will.
Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
God is all holy and righteous, and judges righteously. Thankfully and only by His grace and through faith in Christ we are no longer separated from His love!!
@@carebearboo4247 love proverbs and psalms 😃
@@carebearboo4247 Rather twisted isn't it? You must fear something to begin to understand it? I guess one should be afraid of a god who sends everyone to hell by default. If god didn't want us separated, he would have created sinless beings. Why would a perfect god create imperfect beings & punish them for not being perfect?
@@utubepunk well in the beginning of the world there was no sin. But there was free will of man, which is why we are in a fallen world now. If you want to be convinced to believe in God, I cant do it myself. Only He can. I encourage you to ask Him to reveal Himself to you. I was agnostic about 5 years ago and now I'm a believer. I think its important to question who God is and if He is real, it's how I became a true born again believer. Not a fake Christian like I was before.
Love doesnt come out of fear. You might get obedience, but you wont get love or respect.
Thank you for this video 🙏🙏
Church is a place where you can meet Jesus, learn about God's Word, and be renewed. The Bible is clear about what constitutes sin, so when a church supports the Bible... even at the expense of criticism... I'd still want to go to that church. For anyone who is a Christian, we must put our pride aside because it's God's perfect principles over our personal opinions. The truth hurts, but so does living a life of sin that further separates us from God.
The Bible was put down on paper by man. A council called the Niecene council decided how the Bible should read and what should be in there. It is not a book direct from the mouth of God as he would have it. It is doctored abs changed to fit man's views and as such it can not be taken as literal fact.
God did not drop a manuscript in front of man and say this is it. Man put down what he wanted abs turned to to god's word. Take for example the old testament. Liviticus lists page after page of things that are considered unclean. Women on their period. Man who have touched a women on her period. Shellfish. If you take one part literally you have to take the rest. You can not pick and choose.
That's easy for you to say because you're not the one being shunned in the Bible and by people like you. God did not write the Bible, it was just a bunch of men. If you know something is wrong but do it and support it anyway then you're exactly why Christianity has the reputation it has. Truth hurts
Bible cannon was voted by men. And the only voice that can judge the issue of homosexuality is Jesus and he never once mentioned homosexuality. It was Paul who mentioned homosexuality. If you study him he was a know anrisemite and unfamiliar with the practices of Greek and Roman society and thought it was wrong. So it was his opinion and not mentioned by Jesus.
The Kingdom of Heaven is within you to look anywhere else is idolitry. The Temple of the Lord is your physical body because that is where your Eternal Soul resides.
State of Grace is one of the best journalistic channels on TH-cam. Would love to see a higher volume of videos or even podcasts.
"we are the church and you are welcome here." goddamn. I'm an atheist and that hit me hard. church is everywhere and the people who believe in god. thank you for this amazing series.
I love this channel and I absolutely love this series! Grace is a fantastic journalist and an amazing person. She is comfortable with who she is and doesn't back down, but she is also kind, understanding and compassionate. I would love to see more interviewers like her who use logic, reason, facts and intelligent discussions to explore difficult topics. It really frustrates me how Vice continues to push overly opinionated, incendiary "reporters" in order to get more views. This series is a refreshing change. Thank you for all your hard work and please keep producing more great content!
I'm so familiar with this. I'm Anglican in NZ and still there are struggles about inclusion. And I don't even know why I go to church. My dream is to have an inclusive ministry outside of institutional church.
Keep up the fantastic work. It is so appreciated
10:00 This is so eloquent. "Being trusting is not a fault". I got chills.
State of Grace has been so informative for me as a queer person. I have never been a part of *any* organized religion and was raised with a certain level of suspicion towards it. This video touched on many of the reasons behind that suspicion. So, my own relationship to the topic is very different from the people featured here. However, I greatly appreciate hearing the perspectives of people who did have to wrestle with accepting themselves and maintaining a relationship to their faith communities.
The only thing that is inherently wrong is hurting people, in any way, shape, or form. With that principle in mind, being LGBTQ+ isn't wrong. Excluding LGBTQ+ people because of their differences that make them unique is wrong.
I agree. People shouldn't be judged by other people who have sins as well.Only God can judge us so we should all live and accept ourselves/each other.😊
Ok I know God and jesus love everyone but what about the old testimate being homophobic? Do LGBTQ+ Christian's only believe in the new testament and not the old one?
I am so confused. I dont go to church anymore because I feel like the bible is very misogynistic (except for the new testament). I just believe in God and Jesus but I dont really follow the bible teachings. But I really would like to hear some opinions from others.
@@asdfghjkl-oo7lv The old testament has a lot of questionable ideals, and many intolerant Christians like to pick and chose the sections they preach. Some examples of excerpts that would no longer apply today are listed in these links: www.biblestudytools.com/nlt/leviticus/passage/?q=leviticus+15:19-33; www.biblestudytools.com/ezekiel/44-20.html;
That being said, in my opinion, since the old testament has been written years ago, you can label some of its teachings as not applicable in our day and age, including homophobia.
However, everyone's version of faith is a personal and unique decision, so every LGBTQ+ Christian has their own way of balancing faith and identity or individuality. Therefore, it is safe to say that you can decide what and what not to believe from the Bible, as long as it is true to yourself and does not directly harm anyone else.
thank you for this video. this topic is SO IMPORTANT. it is something i struggle sooo long with...
thanks for sharing. Church Clarity seems like a great resource.
I love Grace, awesome host. Please do more with her :)
i was confused for a second when I heard Elliot page's deadname
So good! I’ve served as a worship pastor in several mega churches and have seen how they really fumble this issue...
A very well done documentary. I hope you get to talk with Mosaic eventually. I commend you for reaching out and wanting conversation. That’s what we need more of.