Repairing a 1978 Williams Phoenix Pinball Machine - RISE FROM THE ASHES, You Neglected Old-Timer!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2024
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Good Morning fantastic, thank you, a Wednesday morning upload, cup of coffee in hand and a Williams 1978 pinball machine- outstanding!
Thank you for dropping by :)
Can you fix my spy hunter arcave mini
Hey
I’ve got a Gottlieb Cleopatra in my basement that is missing the boards that I liked to get rid of or at least repaired. Can anyone help me out?
These videos never seem to stop being interesting and I feel a sense of gratification when you get the machines up and running again,. Thank you for sharing these gems of knowledge and technical expertise with us.
No problem Chris, we'll get more of it zoomin along next time :)
G'day from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. I am looking to get one of these here in Australia and I wanted to say. I LOVE THIS MACHINE. The amount of hours, days and months I spent feeding this thing all my pocket money (allowance) every week. It is my all-time favorite. Thanks for bringing it back to life.
It's a fun old game, I really liked it, and had never played one before! I hope you find one for a good price, good luck!
It will be working fine and great progress is being made. Now to part 2. That's quite the vivid and wild looking gameboard.
Thank you for watching melanated prose!
Another pin back to life soon 👍👍👍 i enjoy so much your videos . I'm from Puerto Rico. 👋
Very cool, thanks for watching down in Puerto Rico! We'll see you on the next video Dennis :)
The artwork on the playfield is INSANE!!!! Pinballs are definitely a work of art :)
Yeah some of these artists just went crazy, LOL This guy must have been hallucinating at the time!
Great video Ron, very informative. Thank you for sharing your expertise. Looking forward to future videos.
Thanks John, glad you enjoyed it!
Stumble through em .. we enjoy it !
More Stumbling coming Monday :)
Keep your great repair videos coming. I really wish we could get hold of some of these older Bally/Stern games in Australia. @Joe's Classic Video Games & @
PinballHelp constant streams of pinball fixing videos got me inspired to try my hand at posting some.
Go for it man, we gotta save these things :) I wish more people would do the cheap, less collectible ones (like we do) because they seem to get passed over for all the super star titles, we're going to get to a point where theres 10 or less of some of these weird titles in the world still working....
Great video Ron! I watch ALL of your videos regardless of the topic, despite the fact that I prefer the pinball videos. The game you were working on when the bridge shorted out was a system 11 Williams Pin-Bot in November of 2018. I know since that was the time, I was considering buying a Pin-Bot myself. About 6 months later I picked up one for $700. I own two pinballs, they are the Pin-Bot I bought a year ago, & my High Speed I have owned almost 30 years. I bought new LED displays for Pin-Bot, but since they were stilll good, my High Speed got the LED displays instead. Thanks for the bridge reminder, I fused both my machines not long after your machine had the meltdown. Keep up the good work! Hello from Phoenix Arizona!
Hello Pinball 541! Thanks for the refresher, they blur together for me :) You own two pinballs, you sure picked a couple good ones :) Thanks for the kind words, we'll see you on the next video!
I just wanted to say thank you very much for all your videos and the hard work to make them. I am 50 years old and just got my first pinball. It is a fixer upper and is a Williams Flash. I am learning a huge amount from your videos and could not do this restoration job with out you. Thank you!!! My project is just beginning with a long road ahead. LOL
Woody flash is a great game, I've had about 5 of them through the shop, I like the playfield design and how the ball flows.... We go through all the boards in the next Phoenix video (out Monday) so hopefully it'll help you get yours up and running too. Thanks for the kind words, we'll see you on the next video!
Wow that's a gorgeous playfield, I love it!
Yeah it's going to be something else when it's done :)
I can see my electronics teachers crinching everytime you say UF capacitors lol. Awsome video as usual ....Very straight forward easy to follow trouble shooting thanks.
Thanks for watching Chris.
Great seeing you guys keep these classic machines preserved!
Thank you Mopar Stpehen, we appreciate you checking our videos out. Mopar or No Car :)
Ugh I hate those interconnect boards it kept having problems so I just got a brand new Rottendog board and it gets rid of the top board you only need the one board as they put everything in one board and it worked great.
But now I am full restoring my LaserCue and it is in 3,000 parts still. o.o
I also love the LED displays and was skeptical at first that they would not look right but from far away you cannot tell they are LED displays unless you get up and close to the displays. :)
Show me that plug in side of the line cord I always get in machines that have the ground cut or the line cord itself was cut and wired back up horribly.
In fact I had to replace the line cord on the new machine I got in which is Star Trek 25th Anniversary Pinball by Data East.
Some one had over fused with a bloody 25Amp fuse it blew its Veristors arse right off and had charred up and melted the vinyl in the power junction box.
It was brutal but have a new line cord in and the ground is back on it now too.
Man that's horrible about that fuse! If you get time watch our Dungeons and Dragon's pinball video on here somewhere, they overfused the board and caught the game on fire! Good fix on that Star Trek, very cool. See you on the next video!
That machine is the same age as me! Damn I feel old now.
Me too brother, born in 1978....
Have fun! Can't wait to see it working.
Coming Soon :)
That's an awesome pinball!
Thanks Dan, it's pretty fun! Or I guess it is, of course we don't have it working yet until the new video is uploaded :)
Yeee another cool pinball repair video for us ;-) keep filming Joe!
More coming soon :)
@@LyonsArcade As sure as night is dark and day is light?
This playfield looks wild!
Yeah it's pretty cool artwise :)
Interesting how wherever you go restoring old electronics be it computers, arcade machines, pinball machines, whatever it is electronic. Batteries are the bane of your existence.
Man ain't that the truth! They completely destroyed all these older ones. I'll show you the extreme damage on the next video, which will be up Monday. AND IN HIGH DEF
thanks guys for the video,great machine,looking forward to the next 1 :) x
Thanks Hope, we appreciate it!
Awsome video keep them coming
Thanks John, we appreciate you watching man, see you on the next one!
I always loved the fiery artwork of this machine that I saw brand new out of the box. The artwork colors on your plastics didn't fade, this is the original tint. The gameplay was not a killer but yet in line with the machines of that era, sort of electronified electromechanics. Your playfield is gorgeous, a good base to start from if the backglass is in line. Congratulations and thanks for the video as usual.
Tonero we will have more of this one next week, we have a lot to work through but I think it'll end up pretty decent :) See you on the next video!
@@LyonsArcade Looking forward to these !
"7 minutes ago"...great timing. I just sat down for my 1 hour lunch at work :)
Welcome, Welcome :)
Hey Ron. I realize that I'm (really) late to the party here. Just noting that the feed for the 5V supply is a full-wave rectifier, not half wave. If the secondary of the transformer is center-tapped, a full-wave design will run the center tap to ground (or reference) and then one diode for each end of the secondary will hand each "wave". That is why the banded end of both diodes are tied together while the unbanded end goes to the transformer (one to each end of the particular secondary).
If I were to feed the three wires from the transformer (two ends and the center tap) into a sealed box, you'd have no way of knowing if I used two diodes or four...until you measured the transformer to see where I picked off the reference (ground) or compare the output voltage of the sealed box versus the input voltage.
Also µ is the greek letter "mu" and not the arabic letter "u." Hence µ is for micro.
One last thing, even if you are abandoning a part of the power supply, I would still pull the old electrolytic capacitors as they can still leak, like a battery, and etch the board.
No so excited about that! Now that was funny!
:)
The problem with those old WMS power supplies is that the 3055 transistor output would “drift” over time and you’d wind up getting some god awful voltage out on VCC like 4.6 volts instead of 5V and those old TTL (non CMOS) ICs were intolerant to voltage drops below 4.8V. The game would fail.
The formula for IC1 (723 regulator) is VO=7(R1+R2/R2), where VO is the desired voltage out.
Although the resistors R1 and R2 were precision, the main transistor would heat up and change its properties.
The solution is to either replace the 3055 or use the above formula to change the “precision resistors” to accommodate the “drift” of the old 3055 transistor.
Watching your video a little longer, I just realized that this system doesn’t use the 723. Oops.
Thank you for the info Rick, I do seem to remember 'fixing' one once by adding in a resistor that was probably doing what you mention, maybe it was a slightly newer version of the power supply but yes, there was a place for a couple resistors and only one was populated from the factory, by adding the second one in (I think?) I was able to raise the voltage back up to get over 5 going out to the mpu.... I think I did a video on it here somewhere but I can't remember which machine it was.
Cool colors. Curious about the DIY led display kits. Was looking at buying a set maybe. Also wanting to replace a few lamp sockets .. any kits available with the different sizes?
I'm not aware of any kits but you can get all of those different sockets at www.MarcoSpec.com ... we should have the display video up next week sometime.
That playfield is straight out of an acid trip
The designer was probably high as hell
I may be wrong, but if memory serves me the figures on the plastics kinda "glow" in arcades that had black lights. That's why they are that color.
That could be, I forgot about the blacklight stuff :)
Hey Joe!
Really like your content!
I have a Phoenix pinball and the button to shoot the ball after you lose a game is not working, any way u can guide me a little to fix this issue?
This is a great start. I'm really interested in this one. I have a Williams World Cup from 78. I have it working, but sounds terrible. I'm wondering if you'll be working on the sound board at all. But looking forward to the rest.
We mess with it a little bit but very little... if I had one that the sound works but just sounds bad I'd suspect all the capacitors on that sound board.
That setup procedure sounds a lot like the old jukebox you repaired
Yes very similar!
Go pinball everyone!
Yes sir!
Nice work on power suply board now you need a new or good used MPU board....😆
Danijel, we're going to try to fix that damaged one tomorrow on here, are you saying we can't repair it ? :) See you on tomorrow's video!
@@LyonsArcade
Im shure you will repair it 😎
4 hex nuts for leg levelers
That makes sense, thanks!
uf works for me.
Apparently it's the correct way to say it, who knew?
Two repairmen and 700 $$ later my Phoenix is still not working . Machine turns on . Doesn't kick out ball . Behind the back glass the red transistors heat up guickly . Machine is is great shape that I don't want to give up on it .
Man that's crazy they charged you but didn't fix it... if the transistor heats up it's connected to a coil that's shorted likely. If you find anybody who's worked on these System3-7 machines they should be able to fix that pretty easily, it's ridiculous they charged you $700 and didn't fix the machine.... You can check the coils with a multimeter and check the transistors on the driver board that pair with any of the shorted coils, you basically have to replace the coil and the transistor usually if it burns up.
@@LyonsArcade Thank you . When I can afford to try again . I'll share this with the repairman .
I was just wondering why you were using YouEff when BOSH! Explanation! 😎😎😂😂
Another great vid! What is the coil/solenoid in the base cabinet for?
That’s the knocker. It makes a loud pop when you win a free game either by special, points or match.
Gotmilkforme is correct of course :) It smacks the wood on the side 'CRACK!!!'
Drop targets to the left of me, drop targets to the right, here I am back in the middle with you.
Lots of drop targets :)
tip never leave chips laying on work bench they hurt when leaned on with the heal of your hand and hurt twice as bad pulling them out
Yup plus you get all that crap that was on the legs injected into your skin... NO BUENO
Seriously, I was working on something and watching a video about Chase HQ where some guy was discussing the continuous turning steering wheel and dip switch settings and then this video popped up....what are the odds?
Glad you found us :)
beautiful play feild an the only reason i mentioned the UF stuff was to help not to be offensive but hey if ya want to be mean :-P
I wasn't talking about you brother, you mentioned it along with 100 other people.... .
@@LyonsArcade ok anyhow replacing the caps in anything over 20 yrs old is a good thing (ol tube type radios to tv's have them under the chassis ol wax an paper are common) heck many big flat screen tvs their power boards are what fail in them to be tossed to the curb its the caps that go bad they use cheap low quality ones an the tvs need so much power they actually dry them out in just a few years also subbed
Seems William T. Theavos is still alive according to the public records vailable on the net :=)). 71 years old and living in Fort Mill, SC so you might have been right hiding his phone number (even though i doubt he's still got the same through all these years :=)))
Yeah I didn't want a bunch of people calling him looking for more broke games he sold years back :) they probably will anyways though :)
@@LyonsArcade Hehehe...Who knows ? :=)
JOE'S CLASSIC VIDEO GAMES
1.) What is that SETUP procedure called? because I don't know why they did this but setting a dipswitch and you hold down the start button or other test buttons to program the setups. Is this only for the systems 1,2,3,4 games or all games? because i don't think i have seen this only bally games maybe its only for the williams games system 1 thur 4 games?
2.) I didn't see that Special LEVER to switch the sound board from the acoustic crimes to the electric crimes. What does that lever look like
3.) When you add a fuse for each bridge rectifier how do you know what fuse AMP rating to put in line to protect the bridge rectifiers?
4.) You mention something about leaving only one original display in which would take a fuse and +100 vdc & -100vdc put adding in 3 other LED displays which you have to add in a new fuse I'm guessing into the 5vdc line?
5.) The fuse they recommend to take out of the power supply board because it burnt up the header connectors and traces was to power the displays? because I see a fuse that is mounted directly to the backbox next to the bridge rectifiers. I'm not sure why this fuse would burn up the header connectors and traces that is why they moved it and installed in to the backbox for a heatsink?
Hi Bill!
1. Yes it's just for those first few systems on Williams, but there were only System 3, and 4, 1 and 2 were never released. So System 3, and maybe System 4 games (not sure about that one).
2. It's that big red lever on the top left side of the sound board, you flip it one way and it plays chimes!
3. I'm not sure how you figure out which amperage you need, but it's been determined by the people who decided to do that 'mod' that the correct amperage for this application is '8'. So I'm putting 8amp slow blo fuses in it.
4. Sorry I didn't make that part clear, there is a fuse on the power supply that makes the 100v and -100v lines work. You need those for the original displays, and in this game there is still 1 original display (the only one I have!). I'm going to use it to test if the game boots up, but after I get it booted and working, I'm going to replace all the displays in another video you'll see soon, with brand new LED displays that do not need the 100v or -100v. So when I get that done, I'll remove that fuse so the board no longer makes -100v or 100v, to cut down on the heat in the backbox. The LED's use so little power you don't need to update the fuse or anyting on the 5v line....
5. That fuse you're talking about yes they removed in design from the main power supply, it didn't run the displays though it ran all of the 'general illumination' lights, which are the ones under the plastics, and behind the backglass that light up all of the artwork. They're always on, and drew a lot of juice, so it would burn up the connector as the amperage ran through it over time. They figured this out, and after about System 3, they started putting that fuse on a seperate place (where you saw) so that they could solder the wires to the fuse holder.
See you on the next video!
@@LyonsArcade ok thanks for making it clear now.
1.) Has anyone told you why they did the SETUP like that for the systems 3 & 4 that you had to move one dipswitch at a time and LOAD in that configuration one at a time which took hours. I wonder why they did it this way, not sure if you know the answer but ask around
Man I love you Trolling the trolls! Keep on calling them uF, if a person don't know what you mean then they got no business messing with them big ass smoothing caps. They bloody hurt if you forget to discharge them before you grab them lol
We're just having fun with them Brad thanks for watching like always buddy
@24:13 No, it does NOT say "uF" on the capacitor, it says "μF". That is NOT a "u". It is the Greek letter "mu" (which is an abbreviation for micro). So you either need to say "mew-eff", or "microfarad". Dammit! 😜
I think you're wrong about that Michael, it's clearly a "U", get with the program man.
Alright, I'll let the Greeks know; this whole time they had their letters wrong. 😳
I’ve got a Gottlieb Cleopatra in my basement that is missing the boards that I would like to get rid of or at least repaired. Can anyone help me out?
Dan if you were near me I'd definitely buy it, Cleopatra is a great game. Check out www.PinSide.com there's probably someone near you that can give you a hand.
Are you sure that plastic isn't celluloid, if there's any rust on metal around those pieces, its producing its gas through cell rot.
Not sure
Phoenix is system 4 not 6 :=). *Edit* Ooops just realized you looked it up during the video. My bad... :=))
You almost beat me! Better luck next time :)
Send in the card for the free parts catalog.
They moved, LOL
But its not a U. It's Greek lowercase μ and it's pronounce "mu" - so call it a "mu f"
ok you're right
@@LyonsArcade I always said 'uhhffff' . (just to p.... them off :)
@@LyonsArcade Since the tail is on the wrong side I think it's a reverse u. Pronounce it "ooy"
“Micro Farads” hahaha gets me everytime
LOL i call those caps for "Uff's" so you are not alone for the U-F thing
It's the correct terminology man, you've got it right, don't listen to the 'know it all's' LOL
Are you telling me that if I click that amazon link and it opens into a new tab and I just look at the item, leave the browser tab open, then do some shopping you will earn the affiliate fees? I buy a lot of stuff on Amazon...
Yes sir. I never even knew it worked like that, basically when you click the link, it marks you as 'my' customer, I sent you there.. .so anything you buy (not just the thing you looked at) after clicking that, within 24 hours, we get a royalty for.
It's Amazon's old school way of marketing, when they started they couldn't afford advertising, so they just paid people if somebody bought something. They let anybody refer anybody... so the program is still around, it's called "Amazon Affiliates", when you click that link you tell them I sent you, and it puts whatever you buy on my account. I can't tell who bought what or even who bought anything, but it shows a list of stuff on my affiliate account that people purchased and they give me a little fee for it, it's pretty cool.
Thanks man, we appreciate it!
@@LyonsArcade I need to buy a $500 CPU and $300 Video card soon, and I'll be sure to use your link Thanks!
Regarding the microFarad thing.
Saying mu F would be correct as it is the Greek letter mu that represents micro. Ignore all the idiots though. Most think of it is a u 🙂.
Increasing the size of a filter cap by that small percentage doesn't make any difference and might even help filter the power more, especially on half wave rectified power.
Everybody always has to butt in and tell me the one thing they think I did wrong... when in reality, I did 100 things wrong and that's the only one they know about. So they gloat about
the 1 when we're both ignorant of the 99. It's always the people that think they're the smart ones too, such an astonishing thing about human nature.
I figured that was the deal with that filter cap, but I assumed at some point it must end up 'too much' but I don't know what damage it would do if it was say... to be extreme, 5 times the size it 'should' be..... maybe just use more amperage or something?
@@LyonsArcade If you go too big, the initial inrush current could damage the rectifiers or even transformer as that initial charge inrush is seen as almost a short circuit on DC for a very short time.
It was a bigger issue with some valve rectifiers. Most solid state ones are pretty resilient, but I probably wouldn't go more than about 30% above in filter caps in most cases. It depends on the quality of the components as well.
In other areas of circuits, like oscillators and such, exact values are more critical.
@@EsotericArctos STOP BEING A PICKY DOUCHE BAG!
@@HuntersMoon78 You obviously did not read my entire comment in the correct context, so stop with the all caps. You just made yourself look like a complete dick. Try clicking the SHOW MORE and read entire comments before commenting back.
Oh it's a U is it, like μsa? :P
No, that's a different U. By the way you forgot to put a period between each letter in USA
@@LyonsArcade eμgh gross, we call them full stops.
That dip switch option setting is TERRIBLE. There are replacement roms that will let you set it like the later games.
I looked into that but couldn't find any unfortunately... this particular one is a weirdo, it's got System 3 flipper roms but it's the first system 4 game, I was thinking like you said somebody probably made some System 4 flipper roms that work with the other rom chip but no dice. We get all into it, in the next video, see you then!
It is not a "U", it is "Mu" , a greek letter for "micro"
I think you might be wrong about that Yanick, it's clearly a U.
@@LyonsArcade Not really , "U" is not the same as "µ". First is U and second is "Mu" the greek letter
want to screw with people UF = MFD (old school)
I was thinking about that earlier, I think i'll just start referring to it as that and then talking crap if they use any other term, LOL
Saying " you f " is fine ... for microfarad don't take no shit.
I'm doing it deliberately from now on just to piss them off :)
µ.S.A.! µ.S.A.!
That's a great point Ken, very stupid of me to think of that as a U. So embarrassing, thank you for mocking me....
It is not "u" - it is Greek lower case m = My en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(letter) :-)
I don't know Martin, I think you might be wrong about that, looks like a U to me.
@@LyonsArcade - yes - but look closely. The straight line is on the left side. μ Not on the right side as in a u. :-) some fonts have even a serif on it.
I think the ball ramp was to make it harder to score, the plastic masking the fact that there is a higher ramp
That could be, definitely!