Another good episode and liked the discussed approach to the never ending topic of effectiveness. What defines effectiveness can be very deep and I believe only can be answered with sincere practice and trusting the path. So many benefits and ways that Aikido can positively effect us including both martial aspects as well as being aware of our surroundings and the world we live in. How to balance those is truly the key (eg. Bravery vs Brutality).
"Best way to avoid punch, no be there." - Karate Kid - Part II, by Mr. Miyagi. Learn Aikido to improve your life and share your knowledge with others (eventually). Great to see you guys again.
The techiques of aikido can be effective, but they are the most complicated way of getting effectiveness in a fight. The practice of aikido is ineffective for fight preparation, because, there is no fighting in the training. All the arguments I've heard here are nice, but in the end they boil down to "I am too afraid to fight, and I'm too invested in my religion / school of thought & practice to challenge my faith." It does come down to faith. "why do you have faith?" "because I have faith". Then the argument about "you just like what you like" and "there are all kinds of different flavours of everything and it's just up to what you choose" is very nice, but is one of many cop outs of accepting to test direct confrontation. All other Budos, as long as they've transitionned from "jutsu" to "do", have the same end philosophy of Aikido. The thing is, they follow the saying : "If you want peace, prepare war."
And they are made even more complicated by sticking to old teaching methods, they forget that we are westerns trying to learn a fighting style, which unlike many others gives the choice to keep the integrity of the attacker restraing him/her which is paramount in our times, thus avoiding lawsuits. Aikido is action not to hide behind philosophy or traditions.
@@RavensEagle ??? Are you simply criticizing the very concept of trying to have a critical conversation?? ... because you have no argument against my criticism , I guess... Provide something better, than silence, or do not speak.
One issue is that society thinks that studying a martial art is preparing you for conflict. I find it does not in most cases, it is the individual's mind that prepares one for conflict.
Yes, but it won't help much if you're prepared in your mind, but you lack the physical skills to actually do it. Also, knowing that you have the physical skills to do something will give a person more confidence, thus helping to prepare one's mind. Learning to swim definitely does NOT guarantee that you will never drown; however, learning to swim will go a LONG, LONG way in decreasing your risk of drowning, especially when compared to someone who cannot swim.
@@user-sg8kq7ii3y Nowwehre did I say not studying was useless. Nonetheless, I've personally seen those with zero Martial Arts training be the most combative street opponent. I have known a well-established black belt but did not have the where-it-all to engage in a real actual dynamic encounter. Unlike the black belt, their mind didn't freeze. They didn't have the false expectation that a street encounter would unfold the same way as it does in school. So the point holds, that simply studying a martial art is not preparing you for conflict. Especially the way most schools teach. To build on your analogy. It's not learning to swim that saves you from drowning. It's learning to react while under mental strain and continue when your body wants to stop. Even if that is just doggie paddling or simply relaxing enough to allow yourself to float.
@@michaelbenner3641 You stated, "It's learning to react while under mental strain and continue when your body wants to stop. Even if that is just doggie paddling or simply relaxing enough to allow yourself to float." Well, what I'm saying is that it's your TRAINING that gives you that ability to relax, to think under strain, etc. When a boxer is out doing roadwork in high altitude, and his lungs are burning, his legs feel heavy, and he can barely catch his breath, and his mind is telling him to stop running so he can sit down and catch his breath, he learns to push through that natural urge to stop, and he realizes that he CAN go further. He trains himself to do this. So, when he gets the same feeling in a boxing match, it's familiar to him, and he is able to push through because he has experienced the same feeling countless of times during training.
WHY? BECAUSE IN A STREET FIGHT WE NEED TO -----STAY ON OUR FEET----. FIGHTING ON YOUR BACK BJJ CAN GET A PERSON GANG BANGED. ---I FOUND ALL MARTIAL ARTS SHARE THE SAME BASIC MOVEMENTS - HIPS HEAD FEET MUST ALL MOVE A CERTAIN WAY IN MOVEMENT
There is objective or concrete truth, not every thing is subjective. For example, 2 and 2 will always be 4. To say 2 and 2 is 5, would be flat out wrong. There are some topics where there is an absolute "right and wrong" idea or answer, and there isn't much (or maybe even no) subjective truth to it at all. Now, some Martail Arts have been proven to be objectively more functional than others, and they have proven to be more functional through pressure testing, even if the pressure testing has "rules" for safety.
First of all, math is a human construct, not absolute truth. 1+1=2 can only be absolutely true if you can absolutely define 1. Which is impossible because boundaries are transient not absolute. We rely on our senses to determine boundaries between things which is subjective and biologically limited. It does not reflect the world as is. Math is also dependent on such limitations. 1+1=2 is the same as 1 apple + 1 apple = 2 apples. What is an apple? What is the boundary between an apple and a non-apple. 1 + 1 implies that what is being added together is the same. 1 is 1 and not anything else. When one adds two apples together where each apple has a different shape, color, taste, size, mass etc., are they the same? The only thing that is the same between them is their name. Basically everything else is different. But when we do the math, we ignore reality and treat them as if they were the same as a matter of convenience. If regards to traditional martial arts (at least Chinese), they all shared a similar foundation. That is anyone studying had to do intense body conditioning and full contact sparring without protection. Modern martial arts have abandoned all those requirements because they are heavily regulated to prevent injuries and being sued. So comparing MMA which has lighter regulations to the heavily regulated and crippled modern martial arts is comparing apples to oranges (or apples). It’s unfair and unreasonable.
@@Liliquan First of all, if your asking me to define the number "1" (the number "1" is not a tangible object, numbers are a concept that give a certain value to an object or a thing) , then I would like you to define the word "fair", because you inferred that my reasoning was "unfair", so first of all what dose fair/unfair even mean, because actually that is a human construct. Math is arguably not a human construct. Math is more like pure logic that humans discovered through their own conception and reasoning skills, but humans did not invent that logic. Secondly, you also said that my reasoning was unreasonable...I don't think so. Now, your asking me if I can define the word/number"one". I am not a mathmatition, so I probably can not define the number "one" (or any number) very well, but I bet their are plenty of brilliant mathmatitions and great thinkers out there who probably could, and who could also probably counter argue your attempt at logic and every argument point you tried to make, but admittedly, I can't argue it as well, so I will save that task for the smarter people. Now, when someone says "1 plus 1", we are assuming that you are adding 2 identicle (or maybe not identical) things together. This whole argument you tried to make about ie ,"what if the apples aren't identical" or "define an apple" etc... is nonsense. Of course we are talking about adding two identical things together, and that goes without saying. Even if you added 2 cars in a parking lot together, and even if they weren't identical, you are still adding 2 cars in a parking lot together, and that's pretty concrete (unless you ask me to actually define what a motor vehicle is, and yes, that could also be done too, but Im not going to define everything for you, that's ridiculous). Some things are pretty concrete and tangible no matter how much you try to argue it the other way. Now about modern "MMA" gyms having safety measures in their training. I highly doubt Martail Art practitioners of the past (even going as far back as to the Roman and Greek gladiators) did full contact sparring all of the time with out any safety measures in place (and IF they ever did, I don't think that there training lasted too long or was effective training). You seem pretty determined to criticize modern "MMA" or modern combat sports (or any kind of contact sport) training. The thing is, we have learned so much even over the last 75 years (for example, if you were to take a look at sports like boxing or even the NFL, even though NFL isn't actually a "combat sport" , but it is a contact sport), so now combat sports athletes can safely train longer and more effectively, and they can probably benifitt more from their training, and they can enjoy longer and maybe even more successful careers with out suffering from as much long term damage long after their career are over, because we simply understand so much more about a lot of things compared to as little as 75 years ago (let alone 4000 years ago).
@@ropongi1008 I’m not going to bother responding to most of what you wrote because it was basically purely defensive and ignored the reasoning put forth. You only say something is concrete because you want it to be. Adding two different cars together doesn’t concretely make them identical just because we both refer to each car as a car. That’s just convenient language, not reality. Humans are not special and do not have some special access to pure logic which we discovered through our special powers. The systems of logic we use are human created and limited by our biological capacities and social cultural systems. I didn’t criticize MMA at all (just more defensive nonsense). I just pointed out that the practice of modern martial arts is fundamentally different from traditional practices which means comparing MMA to a traditional fighting system is unfair and unreasonable. Most people in the modern world don’t practice those traditional systems but instead practice a highly stylized and neutered version.
@@Liliquan Everything you said was nonsense. First of all, I said the 2 cars DON'T HAVE TO BE IDENTICAL (but I think the general ASSUMPTION is anytime you are adding two things together, it is already assumed that they are probably identical, but even if they are identical, of course they are not the exact same car, that too goes without saying, they are 2 different cars that happen to be identicle, identical does NOT mean "THE SAME"), they would STILL BE 2 DIFFERENT CARS/ or motor vehicles that are being added together in an empty parking lot (even if they weren't identical)!! I don't know how you can argue with that logic, it's pretty straight forward. But yeah, I guess in a way, we do have special powers, our special power comes from our brains, and I believe that is our greatest gift from God. And no, humans did not invent the logic behind mathematics, we DISCOVERED that logic. The logic or the concrete truth that makes up mathematics always existed, even before modern humans walked the earth. 2 and 2 was always 4, it was never 5, even before we discovered that logic with our brains (or with "our special power"). In fact, even if the whole world was to agree tommorow that 2 and 2 was actually 5 and not really 4, it still wouldn't be true, and that is what makes mathematics absolute and concrete and factual weather you agree with it or not. That logic always existed even before humans could conceive it. Now, you made criticizisizems in a prior post about modern MMA practitioners taking safety measures in their training and implying that ancient Martail Arts practitioners didn't take nearly as many safety precautions when they trained, and that is assuming that they even trained full contact, and that is what I was responding to (you didn't just say that the training practices between modern MMA practitioners and ancient Martail Arts practicioners were just"DIFFERENT", and I wouldn't disagree with that, but that wasn't the ONLY thing you said). Now, you also said that you would not respond to most of what I wrote, well, you sure had a big response for saying that you wouldn't respond too much.
@@ropongi1008 Well with three letters you were able to show me why you believe in such ridiculous things. It makes complete sense now. Go to god my son and worship at the alter of nonsense. Be free from thought and let god handle the rest.
The first few minutes give enough answers for the whole podcast! I think saying, "I do Aikido because I'm interested in it" is enough.
Yuji. You are totally right. If it's for you, who cares what others think, right!
Another good episode and liked the discussed approach to the never ending topic of effectiveness. What defines effectiveness can be very deep and I believe only can be answered with sincere practice and trusting the path. So many benefits and ways that Aikido can positively effect us including both martial aspects as well as being aware of our surroundings and the world we live in. How to balance those is truly the key (eg. Bravery vs Brutality).
So true indeed.
"Best way to avoid punch, no be there." - Karate Kid - Part II, by Mr. Miyagi. Learn Aikido to improve your life and share your knowledge with others (eventually). Great to see you guys again.
Its great interview
The techiques of aikido can be effective, but they are the most complicated way of getting effectiveness in a fight.
The practice of aikido is ineffective for fight preparation, because, there is no fighting in the training.
All the arguments I've heard here are nice, but in the end they boil down to "I am too afraid to fight, and I'm too invested in my religion / school of thought & practice to challenge my faith." It does come down to faith. "why do you have faith?" "because I have faith".
Then the argument about "you just like what you like" and "there are all kinds of different flavours of everything and it's just up to what you choose" is very nice, but is one of many cop outs of accepting to test direct confrontation.
All other Budos, as long as they've transitionned from "jutsu" to "do", have the same end philosophy of Aikido. The thing is, they follow the saying : "If you want peace, prepare war."
Ok keyboard warrior
And they are made even more complicated by sticking to old teaching methods, they forget that we are westerns trying to learn a fighting style, which unlike many others gives the choice to keep the integrity of the attacker restraing him/her which is paramount in our times, thus avoiding lawsuits. Aikido is action not to hide behind philosophy or traditions.
@@RavensEagle ???
Are you simply criticizing the very concept of trying to have a critical conversation??
... because you have no argument against my criticism , I guess...
Provide something better, than silence, or do not speak.
One issue is that society thinks that studying a martial art is preparing you for conflict. I find it does not in most cases, it is the individual's mind that prepares one for conflict.
Yes, but it won't help much if you're prepared in your mind, but you lack the physical skills to actually do it. Also, knowing that you have the physical skills to do something will give a person more confidence, thus helping to prepare one's mind. Learning to swim definitely does NOT guarantee that you will never drown; however, learning to swim will go a LONG, LONG way in decreasing your risk of drowning, especially when compared to someone who cannot swim.
Great point!
@@user-sg8kq7ii3y Nowwehre did I say not studying was useless. Nonetheless, I've personally seen those with zero Martial Arts training be the most combative street opponent. I have known a well-established black belt but did not have the where-it-all to engage in a real actual dynamic encounter. Unlike the black belt, their mind didn't freeze. They didn't have the false expectation that a street encounter would unfold the same way as it does in school. So the point holds, that simply studying a martial art is not preparing you for conflict. Especially the way most schools teach. To build on your analogy. It's not learning to swim that saves you from drowning. It's learning to react while under mental strain and continue when your body wants to stop. Even if that is just doggie paddling or simply relaxing enough to allow yourself to float.
@@michaelbenner3641 You stated, "It's learning to react while under mental strain and continue when your body wants to stop. Even if that is just doggie paddling or simply relaxing enough to allow yourself to float."
Well, what I'm saying is that it's your TRAINING that gives you that ability to relax, to think under strain, etc. When a boxer is out doing roadwork in high altitude, and his lungs are burning, his legs feel heavy, and he can barely catch his breath, and his mind is telling him to stop running so he can sit down and catch his breath, he learns to push through that natural urge to stop, and he realizes that he CAN go further. He trains himself to do this. So, when he gets the same feeling in a boxing match, it's familiar to him, and he is able to push through because he has experienced the same feeling countless of times during training.
Why isnt ss kenneth Furuya in this podcast? his experience outside the dojo as us marine could input.
WHY? BECAUSE IN A STREET FIGHT WE NEED TO -----STAY ON OUR FEET----. FIGHTING ON YOUR BACK BJJ CAN GET A PERSON GANG BANGED. ---I FOUND ALL MARTIAL ARTS SHARE THE SAME BASIC MOVEMENTS - HIPS HEAD FEET MUST ALL MOVE A CERTAIN WAY IN MOVEMENT
There is objective or concrete truth, not every thing is subjective. For example, 2 and 2 will always be 4. To say 2 and 2 is 5, would be flat out wrong. There are some topics where there is an absolute "right and wrong" idea or answer, and there isn't much (or maybe even no) subjective truth to it at all. Now, some Martail Arts have been proven to be objectively more functional than others, and they have proven to be more functional through pressure testing, even if the pressure testing has "rules" for safety.
First of all, math is a human construct, not absolute truth.
1+1=2 can only be absolutely true if you can absolutely define 1.
Which is impossible because boundaries are transient not absolute.
We rely on our senses to determine boundaries between things which is subjective and biologically limited.
It does not reflect the world as is. Math is also dependent on such limitations.
1+1=2 is the same as 1 apple + 1 apple = 2 apples.
What is an apple? What is the boundary between an apple and a non-apple.
1 + 1 implies that what is being added together is the same. 1 is 1 and not anything else.
When one adds two apples together where each apple has a different shape, color, taste, size, mass etc., are they the same?
The only thing that is the same between them is their name. Basically everything else is different.
But when we do the math, we ignore reality and treat them as if they were the same as a matter of convenience.
If regards to traditional martial arts (at least Chinese), they all shared a similar foundation. That is anyone studying had to do intense body conditioning and full contact sparring without protection. Modern martial arts have abandoned all those requirements because they are heavily regulated to prevent injuries and being sued.
So comparing MMA which has lighter regulations to the heavily regulated and crippled modern martial arts is comparing apples to oranges (or apples).
It’s unfair and unreasonable.
@@Liliquan First of all, if your asking me to define the number "1" (the number "1" is not a tangible object, numbers are a concept that give a certain value to an object or a thing) , then I would like you to define the word "fair", because you inferred that my reasoning was "unfair", so first of all what dose fair/unfair even mean, because actually that is a human construct. Math is arguably not a human construct. Math is more like pure logic that humans discovered through their own conception and reasoning skills, but humans did not invent that logic. Secondly, you also said that my reasoning was unreasonable...I don't think so. Now, your asking me if I can define the word/number"one". I am not a mathmatition, so I probably can not define the number "one" (or any number) very well, but I bet their are plenty of brilliant mathmatitions and great thinkers out there who probably could, and who could also probably counter argue your attempt at logic and every argument point you tried to make, but admittedly, I can't argue it as well, so I will save that task for the smarter people. Now, when someone says "1 plus 1", we are assuming that you are adding 2 identicle (or maybe not identical) things together. This whole argument you tried to make about ie ,"what if the apples aren't identical" or "define an apple" etc... is nonsense. Of course we are talking about adding two identical things together, and that goes without saying. Even if you added 2 cars in a parking lot together, and even if they weren't identical, you are still adding 2 cars in a parking lot together, and that's pretty concrete (unless you ask me to actually define what a motor vehicle is, and yes, that could also be done too, but Im not going to define everything for you, that's ridiculous). Some things are pretty concrete and tangible no matter how much you try to argue it the other way. Now about modern "MMA" gyms having safety measures in their training. I highly doubt Martail Art practitioners of the past (even going as far back as to the Roman and Greek gladiators) did full contact sparring all of the time with out any safety measures in place (and IF they ever did, I don't think that there training lasted too long or was effective training). You seem pretty determined to criticize modern "MMA" or modern combat sports (or any kind of contact sport) training. The thing is, we have learned so much even over the last 75 years (for example, if you were to take a look at sports like boxing or even the NFL, even though NFL isn't actually a "combat sport" , but it is a contact sport), so now combat sports athletes can safely train longer and more effectively, and they can probably benifitt more from their training, and they can enjoy longer and maybe even more successful careers with out suffering from as much long term damage long after their career are over, because we simply understand so much more about a lot of things compared to as little as 75 years ago (let alone 4000 years ago).
@@ropongi1008 I’m not going to bother responding to most of what you wrote because it was basically purely defensive and ignored the reasoning put forth.
You only say something is concrete because you want it to be. Adding two different cars together doesn’t concretely make them identical just because we both refer to each car as a car. That’s just convenient language, not reality. Humans are not special and do not have some special access to pure logic which we discovered through our special powers. The systems of logic we use are human created and limited by our biological capacities and social cultural systems.
I didn’t criticize MMA at all (just more defensive nonsense). I just pointed out that the practice of modern martial arts is fundamentally different from traditional practices which means comparing MMA to a traditional fighting system is unfair and unreasonable. Most people in the modern world don’t practice those traditional systems but instead practice a highly stylized and neutered version.
@@Liliquan Everything you said was nonsense. First of all, I said the 2 cars DON'T HAVE TO BE IDENTICAL (but I think the general ASSUMPTION is anytime you are adding two things together, it is already assumed that they are probably identical, but even if they are identical, of course they are not the exact same car, that too goes without saying, they are 2 different cars that happen to be identicle, identical does NOT mean "THE SAME"), they would STILL BE 2 DIFFERENT CARS/ or motor vehicles that are being added together in an empty parking lot (even if they weren't identical)!! I don't know how you can argue with that logic, it's pretty straight forward. But yeah, I guess in a way, we do have special powers, our special power comes from our brains, and I believe that is our greatest gift from God. And no, humans did not invent the logic behind mathematics, we DISCOVERED that logic. The logic or the concrete truth that makes up mathematics always existed, even before modern humans walked the earth. 2 and 2 was always 4, it was never 5, even before we discovered that logic with our brains (or with "our special power"). In fact, even if the whole world was to agree tommorow that 2 and 2 was actually 5 and not really 4, it still wouldn't be true, and that is what makes mathematics absolute and concrete and factual weather you agree with it or not. That logic always existed even before humans could conceive it. Now, you made criticizisizems in a prior post about modern MMA practitioners taking safety measures in their training and implying that ancient Martail Arts practitioners didn't take nearly as many safety precautions when they trained, and that is assuming that they even trained full contact, and that is what I was responding to (you didn't just say that the training practices between modern MMA practitioners and ancient Martail Arts practicioners were just"DIFFERENT", and I wouldn't disagree with that, but that wasn't the ONLY thing you said). Now, you also said that you would not respond to most of what I wrote, well, you sure had a big response for saying that you wouldn't respond too much.
@@ropongi1008 Well with three letters you were able to show me why you believe in such ridiculous things. It makes complete sense now. Go to god my son and worship at the alter of nonsense. Be free from thought and let god handle the rest.
Aikido followed modern budo purposes so fighting isn't it major.
the water is level isent it
ochen