IMO ROTJ is actually the best. Most of its criticisms really don't hold much water, and it delivers a relentlessly satisfying conclusion at every level
Thats crazy cuz ppl absolutely hated ROTJ when it first dropped. Now its so iconic. Plus it brought us Palpatine, who is one of the most iconic villians
The Cloud city scenario was such a failure on Luke’s part because not only did he not help Han and Leia, he actually endangered Leia because she had to come back for him and now Han was far out of reach because of that
On the other hand, he did bring Artoo with him, and Artoo is the one who finally repairs the hyperdrive allowing them to escape. So there's that at least. Not much, but it's something.
@@TylerCharlesFisher well the issue is that Leia had to go back for Luke so they wouldn’t have been in that predicament or at least they would’ve had more time to figure out what was wrong.
to be honest I dont know if that is true Luke didnt save them actively But he was dueling or at least occuping vader long enough leia and lando had time to escape all this shooting , running around , battling the stormtroopers.. If Vader was around this would have been a different outcome
It wasn’t a total failure, Luke did learn the truth about Vader being his father. He was also able to resist being tempted by the dark side, something his father Anakin was sadly unable to do.
What I love also is that in that movie when Luke says "I can’t believe it" ( when lifting the x-wing) and Yoda replies "that is why you failed But then Lukes apply that exact lesson onto Vader by believing in his father, which no one did since Padme died, and that was the only way he could have defeated Sidious, and that was the failures of jedis too, they didn’t believe in love and Vader which grew and kept him in the Dark side. That’s beautiful, Luke overcome his failures and Jedis failures but still uses the goods of his character and jedis teachings , amazing
A point: Yoda and Obi Wan didn't want Luke to Bespin. They also wanted Luke to kill Vader. They are some of the people that handed over the Republic to Palpatine. Luke went to Bespin and got pummeled by Vader, whom he refused to kill in their last duel. He was the main cause for the fall of Palpatine. I'd be slow to follow these old jedi's guidance, as they often look good in the short term, but end up in disaster in the long run. By choosing not to sacrifice Leia and Han, Luke preserved in himself the core belief that people, individuals, matter. It's something the jedi Order seems to forget all too often, with apocalyptic results. Going to Bespin mightn't been the smart thing to do, but I think it was the right thing. On another topic, somebody should make a video focusing on Luke's growth through all three movies. This one, for example, only focused on his growth in the second, with small references to the first one. An analysis of the entire arc should be interesting.
Great points. One small thing: I think the issue with Luke going to cloud city wasn't that he should have just let Han and Leia die, but that he doesn't need to be the Hero in every single scenario. Throughout the film Luke is depicted as being impatient, headstrong, and reckless. I think the point Yoda is making is that by being impatient and trying to rescue them without proper training, Vader will beat him and it will all be for nothing. He was ultimately right about that. However Yoda was wrong that Luke had to kill Vader, Luke's sacrifice and refusal to give up (arguably a anifestation of his headstrong stubborness) was balanced by his patience, empathy, Loyalty and sacrificial nature, which are hallmarks of a good Jedi in the "old" sense. It's my headcanon (fuck the sequel trilogy, lol) that Luke started a Jedi order based on Forgiveness, compassion, and loyalty to the good in people, removing some of the more dogmatic aspects of the Jedi and allowing people to figure out the Dark side in a more open-minded way
@@limbothytimothy You made some good points yourself. I specially agree with your sentiments towards the sequel trilogy ;-D (with a caveat - the acteos themselves did their jobs very well - when the directors and the scripts allowed that). A point I won't agree with is that Yoda was willing to let Luke rescue his friends after he completed his training. Not that he was happy with them dying, but I don't think he saw any way for Luke to be ready for Vader in time to save them, Nothing on the Dagobah scenes pointed to it. He did they needed to be sacrificed, and I always understood that their very lives, not just their well being, were to be forfeited. For the greater good.
Yoda didn't want Luke to kill Vader, but *confront* him. Obi-Wan didn't want Luke to kill Vader, he just didn't believe he could be redeemed. In a sense, I agree that Luke had a different mindset to both of them, and that was part of his triumph. Their concern was that Vader would be able to twist Luke's attachment to his friends into fear and anger, and so their argument - we must make sacrifices for what we believe in, isn't necessarily wrong. Luke was unprepared. And neither Han or Leia would want Luke to risk his life for them (even though Han did exactly that on Hoth). And this is the point of the friendship; to be willing to sacrifice without requiring or expecting the same in return. I think ESB is intentionally a moral dilemma that doesn't have a clear right or wrong. I think it is intentional that Luke and Yoda have a bond, and yet Luke disappoints his mentors. This is inevitable in the apprentice/mentor relationship - and makes for good drama. All of Luke's traits that served him well in ANH - loyalty, courage and compassion - are turned against him in ESB and the root of his downfall.
Great video man! Luke might be my favourite character in the films, sure he's not as suave as Han but as you described, the arc he has and the journey he goes on is so much more fulfilling
To me I think Yoda was disappointed not so much that he didn’t realize he was Yoda but that he didn’t realize this creature was toying with him for a reason not just to annoy him
I think it was to show how foolish and impatient luke was. He wasn't open minded, he couldn't believe that such a creature could be a jedi to him a jedi was a specific image. It basically showed how naive and how close minded luke is.
@@abigailslade3824 well yes he was testing him but to me Yoda’s disappointment wasn’t so much because Luke didn’t know he was Yoda but he was totally oblivious that this creature was trying to tell him something. Especially when he said his father was a powerful Jedi, Luke should’ve known something was up here
im personally a bigger fan of the other two films in the original trilogy but yeah this film is defiantly up there in the list of best sequels with spider-man 2
Gonna say that you had me at using all the familiar KOTOR soundtrack. Just wanted to say that since I noticed it and it just struck such a chord with me.
I've made this point countless times but if Luke didn't return then artoo wouldn't have been there to save them. Keep in mind Lando and chewie were hammering on the engine and not thinking clearly. Luke ignoring Ben and Yoda's pleas to kill Vader also saved Lukes life and saved Anikan who killed the Emperor.
Luke's idea of what it is to be a Jedi - a great warrior - is what ended up failing him, thereby causing him to fail. Only when he yielded to the reality of what a Jedi was - having the power and the will to shape the outcome of events, and having the discipline to use that power wisely - did he begin to succeed. In the end, it's just a matter of being willing and able to set things right. It's not about the Force or even the lightsaber - though they are an extension of one's will and discipline.
Remember the Kasdan Rule, which I just decided exists: If the voice you're hearing doesn't sound like a mix between a weasel and a witch, it's not our boy Lenny
Voice of Irvin Kershner. He directed the 1978 horror film Eyes of Laura Mars. Your video is interesting. Luke has to deal with failure in the story. The Rebel Fleet in space echoes Battlestar Galactica(1978).
2m37s "They had to innovate. Lawrence Kasdan and his team..." The innovation came from Lucas, not Kasdan. Kasdan did the later script polish and dialogue polish (and even some of that was changed by the cast). The story was conceived by Lucas, and that is what Brackett wrote her first draft based on. Lucas disliked the draft and rewrote the script several times before Kasdan got involved. He credited Brackett out of respect (who was sick while writing and passed away not long after). You're actually playing Kershner's voice at 2m56, not Kasdan. There were script consultation sessions in the writing process involving Kershner, Kasdan, Lucas and Kurtz. JW Rinzler also claimed the edit of the movie was harder than with ANH - the production had been a mess for a variety of reasons. However, Hirsch was back as editor to assist Lucas and knew the style of movie Lucas wanted. Hirsch always pay a lot of respect to Lucas in interviews. I think ESB has very little to do with Kasdan, except for some snappy dialogue. Lucas picked Kershner because he wanted a more character focused second movie. It's also interesting to note that Lucas deeply disappointed his own father by choosing to follow a career in the arts instead of the business he had built up and expected him to take over. I recommend watching Arndt's Insanely Great Endings, if you haven't seen it already. And So Uncivilized's videos about Star Wars.
"The innovation came from Lucas" THANK YOU! I always hate these Lucas bashings because he gave the fans what the needed, a story, than what they wanted, a formula.
@@akumaten Yeah, ESB is always held up as the gold standard of Lucas "stepping back" and others making his ideas "better", by people who have no idea at all about how that movie was made, and who made the decisions. It's like people don't realise it was Lucas who wanted the movie to be "darker" and more character driven. Given that Kasdan was responsible for the Solo script - the biggest flop ever in Star Wars, it's hard to believe the secret sauce came from him. I get so sick of the commentary on what Lucas did or didn't do, when Wikipedia and a few documentaries can fill in the most of the details. Just another youtube channel with an opinion and hot take. Nothing wrong with an opinion, unless it's presented as fact.
I can relate to Luke when I was young all I said when asked to do something I always said I can't The Empire Strikes Back is a classic Star Wars movie it delves deep into the mythology that inspired it
I would've accepted Luke failing at something different, something less blatantly out of line with his character and less embarrassing/absurd. Even then, he should've bounced back in a brilliant fashion.
There are two major pieces of missinformation at the begining of this video. 1. Lawrence Kasdan did not write Empire Strikes Back. He and Brackett share the screenplay credit but George wrote the story. Brackett was barely involved with the final product and Kasdan was there for dialogue and things. All of the ideas came from George. The credits do not tell the full story, you have to know who did what exactly from behind the scenes material. Source: “The Making of Empire Strikes Back” by JW Rinzler, and also every interview any of these people have ever done about the film. 2. The video erroneously plays a clip of Irvin Kershner, the film’s director, and credits it to Kasdan. This should be basic knowledge for anyone who has seen or read the behind-the-scenes of this film. These errors are major to the degree I think this video should be removed.
DISNEY STAR WARS PRODUCT WILL NEVER BE PART OF THE ORIGINAL STAR WARS PRODUCT LINE FROM LUCAS, WHICH END AT EPISODE 6. Disney Star Wars may have the brand name, but their products are inferior to the original & not the same, its a different inferior product from ANOTHER company. This is what's wrong with these new products from other companies.
The Director was a very skilled technician, but this achievement belongs to Lucas. Tell, what else has this director done? All crap. Lucas is the genius. Weather those jealous of hhis talent accept it or not.
Last Jedi was an inferior product from another company called Disney, not part of the original 6 episode Star Wars product from Lucas. Also you are lyin when you said they continued it from this film, because everything in the ending of the actual original Star Wars Saga, episode 6, refutes ur nonsensical claims. Disney star wars may have the brand name, but it will never be the same or part of the original product line. Star Wars ends at episode 6. GAME OVER.
The problem TLJ Luke didn’t get a chance to fix his mistakes instead they killed him off. The lesson of failure should had gone to Rey because Luke already his own failure.
Return of the Jedi is my favorite movie, A New Hope is the most acclaimed from a standalone critical perspective, but Empire Strikes Back is the best.
Well said!
IMO ROTJ is actually the best. Most of its criticisms really don't hold much water, and it delivers a relentlessly satisfying conclusion at every level
Me too
Thats crazy cuz ppl absolutely hated ROTJ when it first dropped. Now its so iconic. Plus it brought us Palpatine, who is one of the most iconic villians
I love how the Originals gave us a relatable human like protagonist
So facts
The Cloud city scenario was such a failure on Luke’s part because not only did he not help Han and Leia, he actually endangered Leia because she had to come back for him and now Han was far out of reach because of that
On the other hand, he did bring Artoo with him, and Artoo is the one who finally repairs the hyperdrive allowing them to escape. So there's that at least. Not much, but it's something.
@@TylerCharlesFisher well the issue is that Leia had to go back for Luke so they wouldn’t have been in that predicament or at least they would’ve had more time to figure out what was wrong.
@@TheMan-je5xq Fair enough.
to be honest I dont know if that is true
Luke didnt save them actively
But he was dueling or at least occuping vader long enough leia and lando had time to escape
all this shooting , running around , battling the stormtroopers.. If Vader was around this would have been a different outcome
It wasn’t a total failure, Luke did learn the truth about Vader being his father. He was also able to resist being tempted by the dark side, something his father Anakin was sadly unable to do.
The truth is without Luke’s failure he would have never seen his two paths of destiny
What I love also is that in that movie when Luke says "I can’t believe it" ( when lifting the x-wing) and Yoda replies "that is why you failed
But then Lukes apply that exact lesson onto Vader by believing in his father, which no one did since Padme died, and that was the only way he could have defeated Sidious, and that was the failures of jedis too, they didn’t believe in love and Vader which grew and kept him in the Dark side.
That’s beautiful, Luke overcome his failures and Jedis failures but still uses the goods of his character and jedis teachings , amazing
Your sound bite you label at 2:52 as Lawrence Kasden is actually Irvin Kershner... the Director. And one of the main reasons Empire Shines.
Yikes...
*Irvin Kershner
Also Lawrence Kasdan, not Kazdan (or Kazden)…😮
A point: Yoda and Obi Wan didn't want Luke to Bespin. They also wanted Luke to kill Vader.
They are some of the people that handed over the Republic to Palpatine.
Luke went to Bespin and got pummeled by Vader, whom he refused to kill in their last duel.
He was the main cause for the fall of Palpatine.
I'd be slow to follow these old jedi's guidance, as they often look good in the short term, but end up in disaster in the long run.
By choosing not to sacrifice Leia and Han, Luke preserved in himself the core belief that people, individuals, matter. It's something the jedi Order seems to forget all too often, with apocalyptic results.
Going to Bespin mightn't been the smart thing to do, but I think it was the right thing.
On another topic, somebody should make a video focusing on Luke's growth through all three movies. This one, for example, only focused on his growth in the second, with small references to the first one. An analysis of the entire arc should be interesting.
Great points. One small thing: I think the issue with Luke going to cloud city wasn't that he should have just let Han and Leia die, but that he doesn't need to be the Hero in every single scenario. Throughout the film Luke is depicted as being impatient, headstrong, and reckless. I think the point Yoda is making is that by being impatient and trying to rescue them without proper training, Vader will beat him and it will all be for nothing. He was ultimately right about that. However Yoda was wrong that Luke had to kill Vader, Luke's sacrifice and refusal to give up (arguably a anifestation of his headstrong stubborness) was balanced by his patience, empathy, Loyalty and sacrificial nature, which are hallmarks of a good Jedi in the "old" sense. It's my headcanon (fuck the sequel trilogy, lol) that Luke started a Jedi order based on Forgiveness, compassion, and loyalty to the good in people, removing some of the more dogmatic aspects of the Jedi and allowing people to figure out the Dark side in a more open-minded way
@@limbothytimothy You made some good points yourself. I specially agree with your sentiments towards the sequel trilogy ;-D (with a caveat - the acteos themselves did their jobs very well - when the directors and the scripts allowed that).
A point I won't agree with is that Yoda was willing to let Luke rescue his friends after he completed his training. Not that he was happy with them dying, but I don't think he saw any way for Luke to be ready for Vader in time to save them, Nothing on the Dagobah scenes pointed to it. He did they needed to be sacrificed, and I always understood that their very lives, not just their well being, were to be forfeited. For the greater good.
Yoda didn't want Luke to kill Vader, but *confront* him.
Obi-Wan didn't want Luke to kill Vader, he just didn't believe he could be redeemed.
In a sense, I agree that Luke had a different mindset to both of them, and that was part of his triumph. Their concern was that Vader would be able to twist Luke's attachment to his friends into fear and anger, and so their argument - we must make sacrifices for what we believe in, isn't necessarily wrong. Luke was unprepared. And neither Han or Leia would want Luke to risk his life for them (even though Han did exactly that on Hoth). And this is the point of the friendship; to be willing to sacrifice without requiring or expecting the same in return.
I think ESB is intentionally a moral dilemma that doesn't have a clear right or wrong. I think it is intentional that Luke and Yoda have a bond, and yet Luke disappoints his mentors. This is inevitable in the apprentice/mentor relationship - and makes for good drama.
All of Luke's traits that served him well in ANH - loyalty, courage and compassion - are turned against him in ESB and the root of his downfall.
"It's too big"
"What she said, that is"
Great video man! Luke might be my favourite character in the films, sure he's not as suave as Han but as you described, the arc he has and the journey he goes on is so much more fulfilling
To me I think Yoda was disappointed not so much that he didn’t realize he was Yoda but that he didn’t realize this creature was toying with him for a reason not just to annoy him
I think it was to show how foolish and impatient luke was. He wasn't open minded, he couldn't believe that such a creature could be a jedi to him a jedi was a specific image. It basically showed how naive and how close minded luke is.
@@Alchemax i agree with you
I always saw it as a test, he (Yoda) needed to know exactly what he was working with.
@@abigailslade3824 well yes he was testing him but to me Yoda’s disappointment wasn’t so much because Luke didn’t know he was Yoda but he was totally oblivious that this creature was trying to tell him something. Especially when he said his father was a powerful Jedi, Luke should’ve known something was up here
@@TheMan-je5xq I meant he was testing his character not testing him on whether he knew he was Yoda.
im personally a bigger fan of the other two films in the original trilogy but yeah this film is defiantly up there in the list of best sequels with spider-man 2
Aliens, Terminator 2, Godfather II..
Gonna say that you had me at using all the familiar KOTOR soundtrack. Just wanted to say that since I noticed it and it just struck such a chord with me.
I've made this point countless times but if Luke didn't return then artoo wouldn't have been there to save them. Keep in mind Lando and chewie were hammering on the engine and not thinking clearly. Luke ignoring Ben and Yoda's pleas to kill Vader also saved Lukes life and saved Anikan who killed the Emperor.
Obi-Wan and Yoda failed in a lot of ways, and became stagnant characters. The Jedi couldn't have possibly been restored without Luke.
The greatest teacher failure is
Always nice to hear Kotor’s soundtrack
It's 2024 and Luke is still as ICONIC as ever! It's 2024 and Rey is completely IRRELEVANT!
Even after 50 yrs still the best movie in franchise
Honestly, this is one of the best videos I’ve ever seen on Empire and Luke. Great job!
Luke's idea of what it is to be a Jedi - a great warrior - is what ended up failing him, thereby causing him to fail. Only when he yielded to the reality of what a Jedi was - having the power and the will to shape the outcome of events, and having the discipline to use that power wisely - did he begin to succeed.
In the end, it's just a matter of being willing and able to set things right. It's not about the Force or even the lightsaber - though they are an extension of one's will and discipline.
You did good Alchemax
you did good.
Maritza Flores 👀
@@FlorentineNoble Vito...
Cool video! one nitpick, I'm 99% sure that's the voice of Irvin Kershner not Lawrence Kasdan
oh yes, you are right. My bad I cannot believe I made such a stupid mistake.
Alchemax lol no worries, it happens.
Remember the Kasdan Rule, which I just decided exists: If the voice you're hearing doesn't sound like a mix between a weasel and a witch, it's not our boy Lenny
2:49 - That's Irvin Kershner citing George Lucas, not Lawrence Kasden.
great analysis. great video
U need to make videos again!!! This was 🔥🔥🔥
Voice of Irvin Kershner. He directed the 1978 horror film Eyes of Laura Mars. Your video is interesting. Luke has to deal with failure in the story. The Rebel Fleet in space echoes Battlestar Galactica(1978).
No, Luke! I am your father! What a revelation! Luke handled it well. Star Wars cant happen without him. Any more sequels wont be worth your time.
On making or breaking SW was director Irvin Kirschner's voice- not producter Lawrence Kasdan.
Odd how so many men and boys became Jedi…. Some became good Jedi…. Indeed…
2m37s "They had to innovate. Lawrence Kasdan and his team..."
The innovation came from Lucas, not Kasdan. Kasdan did the later script polish and dialogue polish (and even some of that was changed by the cast). The story was conceived by Lucas, and that is what Brackett wrote her first draft based on. Lucas disliked the draft and rewrote the script several times before Kasdan got involved. He credited Brackett out of respect (who was sick while writing and passed away not long after).
You're actually playing Kershner's voice at 2m56, not Kasdan. There were script consultation sessions in the writing process involving Kershner, Kasdan, Lucas and Kurtz. JW Rinzler also claimed the edit of the movie was harder than with ANH - the production had been a mess for a variety of reasons. However, Hirsch was back as editor to assist Lucas and knew the style of movie Lucas wanted. Hirsch always pay a lot of respect to Lucas in interviews. I think ESB has very little to do with Kasdan, except for some snappy dialogue. Lucas picked Kershner because he wanted a more character focused second movie.
It's also interesting to note that Lucas deeply disappointed his own father by choosing to follow a career in the arts instead of the business he had built up and expected him to take over.
I recommend watching Arndt's Insanely Great Endings, if you haven't seen it already. And So Uncivilized's videos about Star Wars.
"The innovation came from Lucas"
THANK YOU!
I always hate these Lucas bashings because he gave the fans what the needed, a story, than what they wanted, a formula.
@@akumaten Yeah, ESB is always held up as the gold standard of Lucas "stepping back" and others making his ideas "better", by people who have no idea at all about how that movie was made, and who made the decisions.
It's like people don't realise it was Lucas who wanted the movie to be "darker" and more character driven.
Given that Kasdan was responsible for the Solo script - the biggest flop ever in Star Wars, it's hard to believe the secret sauce came from him.
I get so sick of the commentary on what Lucas did or didn't do, when Wikipedia and a few documentaries can fill in the most of the details. Just another youtube channel with an opinion and hot take. Nothing wrong with an opinion, unless it's presented as fact.
I can relate to Luke when I was young all I said when asked to do something I always said I can't The Empire Strikes Back is a classic Star Wars movie it delves deep into the mythology that inspired it
It's almost like we didn't need Luke to fail again in tLJ, because he'd already failed here and grown from it.
That was the director fault and he wasn’t George Lucas because George wouldn’t had the sequels trilogy to be like that.
I would've accepted Luke failing at something different, something less blatantly out of line with his character and less embarrassing/absurd. Even then, he should've bounced back in a brilliant fashion.
At this point I dont care about disney’s twisted vision of star wars I just enjoy the originals and the prequels and dont watch the disney bullshit
I think Yoda was being extra hard on Luke because he had some of the same tendencies as Young Anakin.
Great video, saw it on reddit ( obi wan)
Can’t believe I’m not subbed yet😤
then sub
Are you going to do a return of the Jedi video.
2:49 That's Irvin Kershner, not Lawrance Kazdan
There are two major pieces of missinformation at the begining of this video.
1. Lawrence Kasdan did not write Empire Strikes Back. He and Brackett share the screenplay credit but George wrote the story. Brackett was barely involved with the final product and Kasdan was there for dialogue and things. All of the ideas came from George.
The credits do not tell the full story, you have to know who did what exactly from behind the scenes material.
Source: “The Making of Empire Strikes Back” by JW Rinzler, and also every interview any of these people have ever done about the film.
2. The video erroneously plays a clip of Irvin Kershner, the film’s director, and credits it to Kasdan. This should be basic knowledge for anyone who has seen or read the behind-the-scenes of this film.
These errors are major to the degree I think this video should be removed.
DISNEY STAR WARS PRODUCT WILL NEVER BE PART OF THE ORIGINAL STAR WARS PRODUCT LINE FROM LUCAS, WHICH END AT EPISODE 6.
Disney Star Wars may have the brand name, but their products are inferior to the original & not the same, its a different inferior product from ANOTHER company. This is what's wrong with these new products from other companies.
Disney should have a study day for their sequel writers where they're just force fed videos like this.
Why do I feel like this is addressed at disney?
uh
uh
@@Alchemax uh
@@Alchemax hey Beavis
Adversity is our strength 😜
The Director was a very skilled technician, but this achievement belongs to Lucas. Tell, what else has this director done? All crap. Lucas is the genius. Weather those jealous of hhis talent accept it or not.
And this was continued into Last Jedi. Anyone who fails to see that is simply wrong.
Last Jedi was an inferior product from another company called Disney, not part of the original 6 episode Star Wars product from Lucas. Also you are lyin when you said they continued it from this film, because everything in the ending of the actual original Star Wars Saga, episode 6, refutes ur nonsensical claims. Disney star wars may have the brand name, but it will never be the same or part of the original product line. Star Wars ends at episode 6. GAME OVER.
@@samueljones621 um… not a word you said was true but whatever makes you sleep well at night
We'll never agree on this
@@ryanbarth6691 that sucks that you can’t see it bc it’s pretty clear and makes the movie pretty damn good but sorry that you can’t see it
The problem TLJ Luke didn’t get a chance to fix his mistakes instead they killed him off. The lesson of failure should had gone to Rey because Luke already his own failure.