Will A's repeat Giants near-relocation 30 years ago?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
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#mlb #baseball #vegas
Yes, until it's official anything can happen... However, you left out one HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between the A's and the Giants... The GiantS owner was selling the team. So, he didn't care who bought it... All it took was somebody in San Francisco to buy the team... The A's owner is NOT selling the team... He is taking "his" team to Las Vegas... BIG DIFFERENCE!
EXACTLY what I was thinking
The A's owner is taking "his" team (your words) to Las Vegas - with Other People's Money! He's a beggar, trying to leverage up the value of the team through debt, and then sell the team. That's your real difference...And by the way - in case you hadn't heard - the A's owner also owns the soccer San Jose Earthquakes, and he has collateraled BOTH teams for financing for who knows what, so technically both teams are owned by creditors... 😒
@@bartphlegar8212380 million dollars that belongs to other people the rest of the money will either be loaned from a bank or paid of by fisher himself don’t pretend you know how this deal works and unless the people of LV go to the games Las Vegas residents are not paying a dime. Look into Tax Increment Financing you know the thing Vegas got right that Oakland failed miserably at
Brodie doesn't even mention what happened in 1977/78, when Charlie Finley wanted to sell the Athletics to Marvin Davis, an oil magnate, and move the team to Denver. The sale didn't go through, or the A's would have said bye bye a long time ago.
Yes, Brodie...I was living in Tampa at the time and YES we wanted the Giants..we wanted a MLB team. Now, if Bay area leaders cant come up with a unified proposal, we will LOSE our Rays. Please do a video about the Rays latest update. You are doing a fablous job reporting on all of this. The A's MUST stay in the bay area....
@@805fillmore Yeah, they even had the Montreal split season squashed. MLB hates Oakland which is why they have lifted any road blocks and tossed em away for Fisher to relocate to LV. They just don't like that Oakland doesn't bend over to cough up fat $. Oakland has managed to put $1 billion on the table without a single penny coming from the general fund. That's insane that they have accomplished that. The offsite is through grants they applied for and the onsite will be to repay through the taxes from that district that is created. I dont think they thought Oakland was going to pull that off, which is why they made it a boondoggle price tag for Oakland to have to chip in. They realized this actual beastmode of a waterfront ballpark will happen through Oakland's side so they panicked and are now trying to cram 4 years worth of work in 4 months to get Vegas going.
I think since the Manfred era began, the MLB owners have become collectively jealous of all the new stadiums that NFL teams have been able to get with some degree of public money. Now they are taking the strategy that if they don't get what they want they will explore the option of moving. This has happened with Oakland and is about to happen with Tampa, Millwaukee, and the Chicago White Sox.
Billionaires wanting a hand out. It's bad enough that they actually pay less percentage of taxes overall than average people, because of this and that loophole (Musk and Bezos both have paid $0 in certain years, Amazon and Tesla $0 in some years, but no longer because of the minimum 15% corporate tax from the Inflation Reduction Act signed last year into law by Biden).
I'm sick of those with mega bucks not wanting to spend their own money. MacGowan/Giants spent their own $ for Oracle!
So, when spoiled billionaire owners don't get their ways, they want to move. The question is, "Where are they going to go? Are they gonna just trade cities?"
Great video Brodie. I don't think it's over for the A's in Oakland.
The difference is Bob Lurie wanted to sell, John Fisher does not. It's over.
@@bobbyhamblen2338 And Charles Johnson doesn't want to sell, which is a problem for the Giants, as he doesn't want to spend for star players.
@@bobbyhamblen2338Yeah. There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking concerning the A’s staying in Oakland.
@@ldfreitas9437 Giants have offered big contracts to Judge, Correia, Bryce Harper and will offer big money to Ohtani, signing those players is another thing.
the A's are history, they aren't even the 2nd team in the Bay Area, they are the 3rd team, moving to Vegas tho, won't solve the issue of a very bad team, the fans want a winning team
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes"- Mark Twain
I remember when the White Sox were going to move to Tampa Bay. Eerily similar series of events. They made the right decision to stay, but they ended up with a cookie cutter park instead of the Armor Field plans which had included commercial and residential development, and would have avoided the destruction of McCuddy's Tavern. These new stadiums, excluding a handful, end up as white elephants. I'd rather take the train and watch a game in an old park versus driving to the suburbs and paying $60 to park. Summer in Las Vegas is brutal and nobody wants to visit when its 110 degrees. The Coliseum may be a dump, but its well located on the Bart line. The new SoFi in LA isn't even on an LA Metro line. Develop a new park and entertainment district on site and end the drama. The A's belong to the East Bay. Enough is enough.
Unfortunately the difference is Fisher isn't selling the team to someone in Vegas. He's doing this on his own and he won't sell.
Great knowledge as usual! Love the use of Crawford! Thanks for all you do Brodie, if ever in Vegas I'll buy you a beer!
No. It won't. The only reason the Giants were stopped is because the former A's owner wanted them to stay and helped them do so. The Giants want the A's gone
Obviously not true Giants fans do not want the A's gone Go look at the videos of Giants and A's fans Uniting as one at oracle park and chanting john fisher sell the team dont group all Giants fans into this because a large majority of giants fanbase wants Oakland to stau Sincerely a Giants fan.
@@Rose34561 did I say fans? No. Ownership is what I said. And it seems pretty obvious that the Giants ownership wants the Athletics gone
And a lot of giants fans don’t even know this happened lol
Great points Brodie!!!
Now let’s cue the incoming Kaval bots and fisher simps comments that will make 0 sense and attempt to slander Oakland.
You can’t argue with clowns, but this reporting 100% needed and is great.
So, I'm not the only one who sees this. Same trolls, same bots, different posts.
The A’s are gone, shut it
@@halomo81 You shut it, Kaval!!!!
@@brentduanefoster Athletics….Go bye bye LV new home Oakland 0 teams left 🤣😂🤣😂 and the only people to blame are your Elected officials
@@halomo81 Of course Fisher/Kaval trolls would say that. Come up with something new.
The Giants also had a handshake agreement in the early 70's to move the team to Toronto (before the Blue Jays) that fell apart at the last minute. I feel Oakland's best bet would be if MLB made an arrangement similar to the NHL when the Gund Brothers wanted to move the North Stars to San Jose. Gund Brothers were given an expansion team instead (San Jose Sharks) and the North Stars were sold to local buyers.
And the A's almost got sold and moved to Denver in 1978.
Wasn't early 70s but late 70s.
@@ldfreitas9437 Was early 70's. Blue Jays expansion team was granted in '76. Giants almost moving here was before that.
@@jeffmacd1972 By what, one year. I remember it was talked about around 1974/75.
The problems with the Seattle Pilots was that MLB had the Pilots start two years before they were originally scheduled to start playing in order to balance the schedule and to please Kansas City who didn’t want to wait three years without a professional baseball team. Kansas City lost the A’s to Oakland at the end of the 1967 season. Kansas City already had an MLB caliber ballpark, which was completely rebuilt in 1955 for the A’s, that could be used temporarily until Kauffman Stadium was completed in 1973. The Seattle Pilots also had a particular weak ownership group that turned out couldn’t keep the team beyond one season. Also, Seattle Pilots played in a very poor Triple A ballpark, Sick's Stadium, that hadn’t been well maintained for years before the Pilots even showed up which meant it wasn’t even Triple A caliber in 1969. Plus the fixes that were supposed to be done at Sick's Stadium were not anywhere near ready in time for opening day. The ballpark was supposed to of had about 30,000 seats but only had about 17,000 on opening day. It was so bad that supposedly some fans had to wait until the third inning before they could take their sets because the sets were still being installed. It was that bad and after the 1969 season, Sick's Stadium was deemed not good enough for MLB use, even for temporary use. After all of this the team ended up going bankrupt and being brought by the future Commissioner of Baseball, Bud Selig and his ownership group and he moved the team to Milwaukee and it become the Brewers. This is why you don’t rush expansion and MLB has for the most part learned its lesson from the Seattle Pilots fiasco.
I remember that well. The Giants we’re headed to TB to play in the Sun Coast Dome
Loved this. Let's hope Oakland can get it together in Oakland and stay or let Vegas get an expansion team.
It's more of a if MLB slaps sense into the A's and forces them to make the deal. The city has near $1 billion on the table for the project and the A's balked knowing it's gonna happen thanks to the city. A's are broke and can't afford their waterfront ballpark. It's not an Oakland problem, but A's problem. A's and Raiders are some of the cheapest owners for pro sports. They didn't have the $ to build a ballpark in the Bay Area. Lacob, the only 1 who does, is also the only team in the market with NBA. He had the option to build anywhere (SF/Oak/SJ). He chose SF's waterfront.
@@WiggleBabiesHahahaha love your fairy tale story about the A’s “Balking” on the deal and also the bigger lie about the “1 billion dollars” on the table keep coming up with more fairytales like that lmao
There are so many teams that don’t draw, Pittsburg, Cincinnati, Arizona, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, Miami, Cleveland, Chicago White Sox, Washington Nationals. Is there any talk of any of these teams moving……No, because as you’ve said, Brodie, relocation JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN. There is still hope, slim, but hope, for the A’s staying put.
Funny you mention all that. First of all, I doubt there will be another expansion. Second of all, about a dozen years ago, there was some talk of amalgamating some teams that were not making it. The Twins, A's, and then broke Dodgers were mentioned as teams that would join another; in other words, fold up. This was in 2011. Then the Dodgers were sold...to Guggenheim Trust, Inc. worth then $219 billion. Suddenly, they had more money than almost all the other MLB teams put together!
@@ldfreitas9437 Thanks for responding. Major League Baseball should be ashamed with this fiasco all the way around. Bottom line is the A’s should be in Oakland in a new ballpark.
Miracles CAN happen... Let's GO OAKLAND!!!
Difference is Laurie was a Bay Area man that wanted to keep the team in SF and was willing to sell the team locally
This is a perfect example of it’s not over til it’s over. It’s very likely A’s are moving but til they are actually in Vegas anything can happen
I sure hope you're right!!!
Thank you for the history lesson. I still have hope 💚
If you look at the history of Major League Baseball from 1950 forward, the history of teams relocating is one where they tend to do it in spurts. The Boston Braves were moved to Milwaukee by Lou Perini in 1953, touching off a five year period where five teams moved, culminating with the 1958 westward trek of the Dodgers and Giants. While there was one in between (the original Senators rebirth as the Twins), the mid-60's saw another spurt of relocation that occurred in fairly short order. The Braves move to Atlanta in 1966 was the first of another round of four moves, which ended with the second Senators moving into the Dallas market. I don't necessarily think the A's are going to kick it off, but we may be witnessing the start of another such group of relocations.
That's probably Fisher's greatest fear. Spending money on payroll in a new park and having attendance issues continue. There's no guarantee. Not even in Vegas.
Brodie is the goat
If the A's had a nice Oakland ballpark attendance wouldn't be a problem smh
2:20 not even a giants fan and this broke me a little.
You kept saying MLB is doing this... MLB is NOT doing this... They are just not blocking it from happening...
Mlb has complete authority over the end result of this situation.
main difference is candlestick simply just sucked but operational from a health dept standpoint, Oakland coliseum would be condemned immediately if it were any other building
I remember this well, i was working in SF downtown in a law firm, there was even talk of putting a roof on Candlestick Park. .even though I was a life long A's fan, I was pushing for and was an activist for a new ball park in downtown SF. and even though that referendum was shot down, the whole thing that saved the Giants was Peter McGowan's group purchased the team and kept them here and built what was then AT&T Park.
Around 1968, there was talk of turning Bay Meadows in San Mateo into a multi-purpose stadium for the 49ers and Giants. The weather would not have required a dome, and those donut stadiums were the rage then. It also would have been right between Palo Alto and San Francisco, near two freeways and right on the then SP train line. It was considered an ideal location. Nothing came of it. Years later, it closes, and York, the 49er owner, didn't do anything for a new 49er stadium there. Should have done!
As has been pointed out by many, the biggest difference is Lurie was looking to sell the Giants to people who wanted to move the team to TB while Fisher is looking to move the team himself to LV. Laurie was looking to sell the team similar to how the Maloofs were willing to sell the team to Ranadive.
I think the biggest mistake Naimoli made was making his intentions clear to move to TB instead of faking keeping the team in SF. Clay Bennett faked his intention to keep the Sonics in Seattle. He did some lip service, half assed effort into getting a new arena when he bought the team and just moved them after a couple of years. You can kind of say the same thing is happening with Fisher but over the course of a couple of decades.
Also of note is that if the A's were the only Northern California MLB team, there's no way MLB would be willing to move them or else there would be a guarantee of an expansion team right now. The market is way too valuable. You look at the Coyotes situation where the NHL is desperately trying to keep the Phoenix market. Since the Giants are already there, MLB sees the A's as expendable since they'll still have the Northern California market. Of course, those of us who are Oakland A's fans know it's completely different and they couldn't sell us on the same product just because there's an MLB logo on the back of the uniforms
Also of note, it's strange how SJ couldn't get a deal done on a new stadium back in the early 90's when the Giants were handed the territorial rights by Haas. Years later, SJ was practically bending over backwards for the A's to move there
MLB is not gonna leave Giants as only team in Bay Area/ Norcal for too long!Too much money in Bay Area to just have one team. I believe MLB wants Fisher out of Bay Area if he doesn’t sell
Well said
@@deanwille8130hahaha please list your source where it says MLB wants the bay area with 2 teams this is gonna be very interesting ( and an obvious lie )
@@halomo81 MLB had the chance to make it a one team market in 1992 when Giants wanted to move to Tampa Bay! They obviously didn’t vote for the move! Why didn’t they approve it? A’s outdrew the Giants before Oracle! A’s back then were a better organization. What source said they want only one team in Bay Area/ Norcal? Bay Area is an excellent market! A’s have a terrible owner and terrible stadium. That’s why they are failing
@@805fillmore Vegas having four sports will not add up. Too small of a market
Surprised you didn't mention the mid-80s Cleveland Indians. The 1985 Indians (who went 60-102), for example, only drew 655,181 fans for the entire season.
In 1979, the A's only drew 306,763 for the entire 81 home game season. That was the lowest attendance for a year ever in Oakland, but they had some others in the 70s that were half a million plus. After the four WS appearances in the early 70s, things went downhill quickly for the A's. Their attendance for '72,73,74,75 were this: 800K plus, 1 million plus, 900K plus, 1 million plus. They didn't start averaging over a million fans until the mid-80s.
The problem is and always was the owner. He got pretty much what he wanted and still wants to move. He never had any intention of staying hoping that some governmental entity would fail to give him what he wanted so he could blame someone else for moving. What I find depressing is that no tech billionaire or group of them won’t come forward to save a Northern California team.
There is also history with The Raiders with respect to this way before Raiders moved to LA. There was a handshake agreement for Raiders to move to New Orleans, a deal for about 230 K in '62. The mayor of Oakland then got the owner to sell to a local group instead. With this one, Fisher does not want out, though; Raiders owner wanted out back in '62 and Giants owner was going to sell too. I don't see MLB who basically gave them the greenllight to look to LV stopping it now (not after the public funding went through). A's will get the plans down by end of the year, get approved shortly after is how it reads. What Oakland should do is pivot to looking to get in expansion game to get a pro team again. They need to adjust how they go about it for sure. So I doubt they do that, probably just go foward with developing the area around HT like the Mayor suggested will be done even if A's leave.
The Raiders and their fans were lucky that the city and county decided to build the arena and stadium in 1963, ready for use by '66, because they knew the Raiders might leave, and already the Raiders had played two of their first three seasons in San Francisco, at Candlestick and Kezar. Of course, things were different then. There were no luxury boxes, and no mega billionaires, only some multi-millionaires. The disparity of income was not a social problem like in modern times post Reagan/trickle down BS!
Gee I can make a comment after not having an option on recent live shows. I think the A’s staying in Oakland would be another Loan Depot situation.
I agree with the wider point of this video and would rather the A's stay in Oakland. I will push back on one point though, they aren't really "acting quick" here, the stadium, attenance, ect has been a problem for over 20 years.
Bob Lurie sold the team to Tampa investors but the National League owners voted against the sale.
The Giants almost moved to Toronto before they almost moved to Tampa/St. Pete.
That is just history repeating itself, given the Giants were originally going to be gone by the mid-1970s.
Marlins i think it's how the team been managed the earlier years it was so called do weather but after they got the new Stadium they started to get rid of players to .
In terms of baseball miami is a dump
The Marlins in 98 were the defending WS champs and in 2003 won the World Series.
There is no loyalty in sports anymore it's all about who will pay the most
I remember the day St Louis Cardinals were the only team west of the Mississippi baseball's become messed up
Moral of the story is, if you don’t invest in keeping good players long term, people don’t show up. No matter how new and nice the stadium is.
I remember that whole thing and for a time it did look like they were gone til it seemed like MLB decided they didn't want it to happen and the team was sold to McGowen. I'm thinking unless the league gets tired of John Fisher and forces him to sell the A's to local interests and Manfred doesn't appear to be barking up that tree at least not yet idk too early to say for sure if history is indeed repeating itself, but who knows if a local billionaire (possibly Lacob) steps up it could possibly happen. I don't think the A's moving is in the league's best interests and it's not as though Vegas won't get an expansion team (which they'd rather have anyway). If the A's stay put that is all but a certainty.
Im not convinced Fisher can get the finances in line for the Vegas ballpark....
Well, they have Nevada on the hook for financing quite a bit of it. Oakland and Alameda county people don't want to pay for a new ball park. Why should they? If the Giants could use their own funding for a park, then the As can find the dough themselves. These billionaires are in the best union one can be in: the Union of Billionaire Bosses!
@ldfreitas9437 when you say quite a bit it's only $380m out of $1.5b... I agree it's not chump change... but Fishers gap stock has tanked. He's gonna have to take out some interesting high interest loans for the rest of it. Just with Fishers history of failure and incompetence there's a non-zero chance of him failing to pull it off....
@@ldfreitas9437Hahaha 380 million is a lot to you???? miami is paying 551 million in public money and yoy really think 380 is a lot lmao….What’s the total cost Oh yea 1.5 Billion
I hope you are right.
Yep, the A’s will not be coming to Vegas. There’s going to be major roadblocks and the deal will fall apart or blocked by lawsuits or the voters.
hahahahaha lawsuits from where fans??? a lawsuit from fans isn’t going to keep the team. Voters have zero voting power in anything business related to MLB hahaha this guy….You’re delusional
I'm sure Brodie can find videos of Chalie Finley trying to sell the A's to Denver's Marvin Davis for a move to Denver after the 1977 season. Both teams could have moved, SF didn't, the A's might still, the Raiders left twice. I go back to when Oakland was in the habit of poaching teams from across the Bay, because the then new Oakland Arena was deemed a better place to play than the then twenty-five year old Cow Palace: hockey Seals and Warriors. I'll keep bringing back where the Raiders first played, '60 and '61: Kezar and the Stick, in SF.
wow seeing the marlins attendance knowing they won rings in 97 and 03 hurts
People aren't moving away from Atlanta like Oakland, by the looks of it there isn't any growth. The city is dying what other hints do you need, it's better to get out now.
1:49--The legendary talk radio host Pete Franklin(RIP). I heard that particular show, Pete essentially led a wake/funeral, caller after caller venting anger and/or sorrow, Pete being introspective instead of his normal fake anger and outrage routine
5 minute mark--Talking about Atlanta possibly moving: I remember watching a Braves game on TBS during that time, the pregame was talking about the issue of them moving, a bumper sticker was shown, it said:
GO BRAVES--AND TAKE THE FALCONS WITH YOU(there was talk of the NFL Falcons moving at that time too)
Miracles CAN happen... Let's GO OAKLAND!!!
Will never forgive the Giants for what they did with the A’s and San Jose. This could have been over 10 years ago
Yep fu4k the giants
Is there another ownership group to take over A’s
no…..because the team has never been for sale 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
City leaders need to tell these owners to drop dead. If all of them do so, the owners will have no leverage. If they want a new stadium built, the owners can spend their own money. If the owners threaten to move, good luck.
Nothing to do with politics. We did not want to pay for a stadium with our taxes. Same with not supporting the niners stadium super bowls be damned. Rich people can pay to play with their toys because it's not my job
I doubt it because Fisher has a death grip on the franchise and won't let it go. Correction... He will probably sell the team AFTER he gets his Vegas financing and deal thru. He's that stubborn and petty, he wants every dollar he can make. That bum should have never been allowed to get into the sports industry. He has ruined both the MLS Quakes and MLB A's.
I loved playing baseball when I was a kid! even though I wwwassn't very good at it! and as much as I have enjoyed watching the redsox, since I moved to Massechusetts! I am not impressed by Major League Baseballs Greed!
The Giants got the rights back from the A’s for the sj territory. The Giants had it 1st when they moved from Ny then gave it to the A’s when they moved from Kc.
Incorrect
I think a lot of this is just wishfull thinking. John Fisher isn't going to sell the team. As much as i don't want it to be true, the A's are moving to Las Vegas.
The past is the future.
Astros were almost sold to Virginia Group
Just get SJ rights back from Giants, then all problems solved.
Baseball should not expand to many mediocre players in the league now
Wrong. The only fact that matters is that *voters* refused to pay for the stadium... It had nothing to do with the Giants or 49ers, we refused to fund a stadium. End of story. Our tax dollars are worth more than "gang mentality" major league sports. Lmao😅 Did the team leave? Nope. The voters were right once again....
Brodie brotha GIVE IT UP 💯
Xam….. buddy…. You and the other Kaval bots should give it up.
Go bother Vegas video posts….this ain’t it for you softies.
@@stefanbrown5872 Oakland residents are all a bunch of crybabies!! Face the facts the A’s are moving to Las Vegas!! 🤡
‘We????…..No We Dont
@@805fillmore FACTS 💯
@@stewgotz1 I like you stew! You seem sensible and very much a cool dude.
805filmore tho…. That dude eats corn the long way.
The A’s are moving to Las Vegas. Court adjourned.
This poor guy is just delusional. Lol Denial is not just a river in Egypt. He probably still thinks Al Davis is going to bring the Raiders back to Oakland.
This time it's a done deal!!! YUCK! YUCK! YUCK!
HT project manager has resigned her position. A's are no longer paying half of her salary because they are hard at work on the LV ballpark and HT no longer exists to them.
This is a different era from the 50s, 60s, 70s of the past century. Stadiums could be built then with public funds and no one blinked or protested. For one, there was nowhere near the wealth and income disparity then as exists in recent decades. But even by the 70s, San Franciscans were saying NO to funding stadiums, as they saw that Candlestick was not built in the correct place. Stadiums were cheaper to build then: no luxury boxes, no huge scoreboards. All that stuff came later in time. Taxpayers aren't going to pay for any of that anymore!
@@sirchi8731 It's you're, not your. Learn some grammar and spelling. Also, learn this: NO BILLIONAIRES SHOULD BE SUBSIDIZED BY THE TAXPAYER FOR A STADIUM! I WANT MY TAX MONEY GOING TOWARD PUBLIC EDUCATION, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION (WHICH GETS PEOPLE TO GAMES, BY THE WAY, BUT YOU PROBABLY ALWAYS DRIVE LIKE A FOOL AND PAY FOR PARKING), PARKS, THE POLICE AND FIRE, ROADS, NOT SOME STADIUM!
SELL and STAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Neither is happening
Perhaps the Bay Area isn't all that great a place for professional sports teams. There are other things to spend money on. Truth be told, if the team is great, people will go to the games. Be champions, they show up. Also, the Giants were the only team for ten seasons, so if one wanted to see MLB baseball, that was where to go, and heck, they had Willie Mays! 49er attendance during the 60s was rather low most seasons, down from what it was in the 50s. Win and they will come. As: attracted when winning, when losing, low attendance.
SoCal is the same thing.
@@sirchi8731San Francisco can flex like Boston and NY. Oakland cannot.
@@sirchi8731 I'm liberal, so take your swipe at liberals and shove it up where your head is stuck, conjobiturd! No city should subsidize billionaire owners. The Giants built Oracle with their own bucks. Other pro teams have built stadiums with their own bucks in recent times. Cities are basically through with putting up bucks and have teams leave town! Yet, you'd rather that poor people don't get any help whatsoever! "Or?" Try "are!"
@@ChrisTrinhnumber1 Yes, don't win, they won't come is the general rule. There are other things to do, like going to the beach. Worst year of attendance by the A's: 1979: 306,763. The Giants used to have that many going to their games by the middle of May from the time they arrived in 1958 through1967. Truth be told, the Bay Area wasn't big enough for two teams then. It was, by the 1990s. Before then the population wouldn't really support two teams well.