Immersive Gaming! | Imp And Skizz Podcast (Ep82)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.พ. 2024
- In this episode of the Imp And Skizz podcast, we dive into Immersive Gaming. Where did it start? Where is it now? Where is it going and what does it mean to our way of life as we know it?
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Given what happened on Wednesday, we need a podcast on the difficulty and the plight of left handed gamers.
Or just have Etho on and how he uses his PC. (I mean, Mumbo and his thumb is already established)
What happened Wednesday?
Look up Tango's stream, "Today we learn Etho is a Mutant!".
Nothing nefarious... Just a talking stream that got sidetracked
@potato_opinion do you have a timestamp?
Immersed gaming isn't restricted to electronic. Being controversial... D&D isn't electronic but is immersive
Maybe I'm old
Dungeons & dragons might be the most immersive game you can play. Skizz was talking about the material loss of losing a sword or an item that your character worked for. The thing that you are most afraid of losing is your character itself. You put years of work into developing this person that you get to pretend to be. This person that you're playing has its own independent personality and ideals. It gives you the opportunity to truly be that knight in shining armor if you wish, or be the dark necromancer that raises the dead to control an army. So when that character gets killed, you literally go through grief. I've been playing a character for 18 months now. And when the time comes for that character to die, it's going to be hard. Skizz I would almost compare it to losing a pet. Once your character is dead, they are gone (barring resurrection spells). That character cannot exist in the world anymore. I think you 2 would be great at d&d, but I also think you probably have no time to invest in it lol
Also, I loved that the original immersive technology was at the core of this discussion. A BOOK! 📚
Well it goes deeper actually, below book is the idea of story telling itself and the way we share and understand information.. sitting around a campfire with your mates 50,000 years ago.
100%. Check out your local library today!
Can confirm that ttrpgs (i.e. D&D and similar games) are _very_ immersive.
ZITS streams playing DnD?
You guys would have a blast with learning the game and becoming immersed in your characters. Safe to say us viewers would love it as well!
They could have Tango GMing the campaign based on Decked Out/the terrors beneath deepfrost citadel.
Tango has already stated that he would never play DnD in a public format where he could be criticized for the choices he may or may not make during the game. He stated that he doesn't want to be exposed to those "negative" comments on 'how to play' the game he loves.
@@Zellada fair honestly, it's a shame people can be so judgemental.
Hermitcraft D&D oneshots?! I'd watch that in a heart beat.
We had Pong... it was literally the first thing of it's kind... actually playing a game through the tv. Of course people bought it. I don't think it was outrageously expensive either, so that wasn't a deal-breaker. We were dirt poor, just me and my widowed mum, and she managed to find enough cash to buy one for us to play together. It was utterly revolutionary.
Please do a podcast with Joel!
(Or it could be a duo podcast with Lizzie!)
A retired senior citizen here who's been MMORPG gaming for over 20 years. I used to run with a clan that went from World of Warcraft to Guild Wars 2, to Star War The Old Republic, to playing solo in Assasin's Creed. Immersion is real! When it came to heights or parkour in the game? I suffer terribly from panic attacks. Guild Wars 2 was filled with puzzles that heavily relied on those skills. It even affected my work. I worked on the 8th floor of an all-glass, 14-floor building. It was to the point where I couldn't even walk to the edge of the floor and look down at the street level without having a panic attack. I had never suffered from a fear of heights before I started gaming.
Thats crazy, i wouldnt have thoughr youd acquire a fear of heights through a video game. (Or did i get something wrong?)
Have you been able to improve your dealing with those fears?
@@NuschelThe brain is weird when it comes to neuroscience. It took me about 6 months of repeatedly walking over to the edge of the floor. Look down at the street traffic. While telling myself I was ok and to breathe through the panic attack before I could feel safe again. I still can't parkour or make in-game jumps without pausing to think through the panic. I ended up leaving that group of wonderful players, and solo-played Diablo games for the last 10 years. After all those years of game playing, I finally quit about a year ago due to arthritic conditions in my hands.
I'm only 11 minutes in but Skizz just said "people didn't feel like they were playing pong when they turned off the console."
Have you ever played tetris so much that you are seeing everything as blocks, after you stopped playing? Trippy!
Yes that’s a good point! I used to close my eyes and still see blocks falling.
I had that years back when I had an obsession for tetris for actually just a few weeks... me seeing them always fall down when closing my eyes or before going to bed made stop completely lol
Absolutely. I had a competitive online Tetris phase like 12 years ago and it go to the point I'd start seeing tetrominos if I kept my eyes closed long enough. Note this was in response to quitting League of Legends cold turkey after having dreams of playing it and waking up angry at my dream teammates haha!
Wicked topic. Skizz just gotta say, SO glad you are on Hermitcraft now. You are definitely one of the most amusing Hermits... and you and DippleDop keep me in stitches.
That being said, technology is growing so quickly that the stuff you are talking about was a dream when I was a kid. I am GenX. Crazy cool.
I recently saw a tiktok of a construction worker who was testing a virtual headset that linked with a tape measure and a miter saw. He could get his measurements, have them displayed in front, make his cuts precisely, make a professional label for that cut, cross off the measurement from his virtual list and have that cut fit perfectly. All in less time than normal with no marker lines.
My biggest thought was, this will revolutionize contractors and wood working projects if the headset counts as safety glasses and OSHA approves it.
AR in engineering has been a thing for a LONG time. When it comes to the building jobsite will likely take intensely thorough safety testing.
Petition to have Grian on the podcast
Second
Signed
Signed
My guess would be they will have him on as soon as their schedules line up. It is already a big ask to have them stream together let alone set aside an hour earlier in the day to record. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see it but I think it’s a scheduling issue not a “do we want Grian on the pod” issue
Now hear me out, imp said on a stream that they’d have another guest on soon, so I think it’s gonna be Grian
We, a group of RL gamer friends, still sometimes laugh at how immersed we got while playing the original Wolfenstein 3D from early 1990's. Walking through a corridor, coming to a corner... and whoopsie, I tried to take a peek around my monitor more than once to see if there were any baddies coming from behind that corner. It feels so stupid, but it's just instinctive when you get really intensely focused.
I looovved wolfenstein 3d I played the poop outta that. I remember finding the first secret room and then spent hours wall humping every pixel to try and find every secret lol
Please get grian,joel,scott,etho or lizzie on sometimes,i feel like they could be really interesting😊
Scott or Smajors is pretty much a guarantee, just a matter of when the timing fits for them to do a two-parter. Joel and Lizzie would have to be a duo podcast, I wouldn't expect only Joel or only Lizzie and then the other for a separate podcast. For all we can speculate, Grian is probably next week's guest podcast... don't hold me to it or quote me, it's just speculation again. Not sure when Etho would be on, but I don't think it's going to happen for roughly the next 6 months.
@@JasonICECarson etho said that he would be down to go on the imp and skizz podcast if they asked, so honestly i think he's going to be on sooner than you think. joel and lizzie totally have to be on together, they are such an interesting piece of minecraft youtuber history - one of the biggest female MC youtubers and one of the biggest hermits, as a longterm couple. could be kinda cool to do a three-parter even, one with joel solo, another with lizzie solo, and then one with em both together.
Ya they need to have more guests on. There’s thousands of creators in the space I think they should go beyond just hermitcraft and the sos smp.
@@joshuacollins789 Definitly, empires,life series,former dsmp members,qsmp,maybe Technos dad even!
I played Pong at my boyfriend’s house in 1981 then, we would go to the local arcade to play Donkey Kong, PacMan, and other video games…that started my love of gaming. Worked my way through nearly every Sega Genesis game (and beat them) in the 90’s and finally, now playing Minecraft and other games (as a grandma)! Immersive gaming is something I haven’t done much of (other than maybe Mario Cart) and is a whole different level. I do love rollercoasters and the experience like IMax but, as much as I’d love to try VR, I’d be afraid I’d hurt myself or someone else! Lol Technology has come a long way, baby!! Sorry, that was an old cig ad reference…I am old, after all. 😂 Love the podcasts and haven’t missed a single one…keep up the good work, guys! ❤
100% agree with skizz. Immersive gaming we do not need immersive reality.
Ooo! What a great podcast one of my new favorites! Let me indulge for a second since I love this subject! I am a Game Design major and I took a VR and AR class where I learned a lot!
1) 4D scents VR headsets for gaming actually does exist and works well! The only reason it isn’t available is that in the U.S., one of the largest game consumers, it’s actually illegal. This is because the way the scents are delivered to the user is the same process vape pens deliver their flavor/scent, and there is laws in place to not sell scented vapors because it can be used as a gateway to vaping.
2) I wore a sensory vest, and the one I wore covered quite a bit. My teacher was able to simulate him tapping my shoulder from across the room. It was scary accurate. If you wore it during a game where you could get shot, you would feel a “hit” and the area would get hotter. It’s super cool!
3) I also interacted with a Falcon Haptic Device that allowed me to feel like I was actually sculpting digital clay. It also changed depending on the surface you were interacting with, for example, I would bounce back when hitting a rubber ball, or feel sand paper when drawing over a rock. This was purely a simulation, but I could literally feel the sandy texture.
4) When Skizz mentioned a virtual keyboard and how he would need to feel it, it reminded me of another Haptic Device that was just a board connected to a computer. But it would simulate going through a force field, popping bubbles and holding a ball with ultrasonic speakers through the air. It used sound to simulate items that were not there! I’m sure it could be used to give Skizz the feeling of a keyboard 😆
5) In VR, my teacher made us walk the plank over a city skyline, but instead of just walking on the floor, he gave us a real plank that lined up with the one in VR, but the one irl was only 3 inches off the ground. I was scared and I was physically shaking while doing it! 😅
6) Lastly, my teacher made an audio device that connected my hearing to the hearing of a manikin. So I couldn’t hear anything around me, I was hearing through the ears of this manikin. Supposedly, the quality of this audio was the most purest and allowed all of us students to hear the exact same thing, even though we are all at different heights and have different sensitivities to audio. I was told to close my eyes and my teacher whispered into the ear of the manikin from across the room, in which I proceeded to jump/scream and swat at my ears to get my teacher away, but he wasn’t there.
Immersive gaming via VR/AR is on the rise, and even the prototype technology is outstanding and fascinating. Imagine what it feels like to be someone else but in the purest form. That’s what that audio device did to me, I became someone else in that moment. Also, the human mind is lazy and likes taking the path of least resistance, so that could explain why we get so easily immersed when then the graphics are not realistic. It’s easier for us to understand what is going on.
Thanks for such a great podcast Impulse and Skizz! I love this subject and I can’t wait for the next podcast!
FCD and I were just talking about this, with the immersion! We recently recorded a bit together, and both of us were feeling a little rusty. But when I got too close to the lava? I shouted "OW!!!" When he was attacked by a zombie? He shouted "Aaaaa!"
The immersion happens whether or not you realize it! And when recording, it makes a world of difference. I always think about in the Life series, when y'all are whispering or acting out of breath after running away. It adds so much!
Immersion comes down to feeling stakes. If you feel the stakes in a game you will feel immersed.
Pong, being first, people were OBSESSED with it. I don't know about being IMMERSED. I was there (yes, I'm even older than Imp and Skizz) and there were people that learned every position needed to make trick shots, to position the un-hittable "ball", etc. We were just learning how video games would transport you out of reality.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to make D&D style Dungeons and Quests on a Minecraft SMP😅 D&D is 100% emersive but can vary between DMs. Matt Mercer from Critical Role is so good, the audience watching the show gets immersed just watching them play. I totally agree with with Phasmophobia, I have never been more immersed in a game so much that would make me scream out loud, so good. Best playing with friends.
D&D inside Minecraft sounds really fun! Are you going to post any content from it?
@tyrsia Yeah, I just finished my first one, and the video is on my channel. Was a lot of work, but my other servermates said they loved it. Can't wait to make more.
I work in VR and AR development for over 7 years now. In my experience, the industry wants it, but isn't ready for it. I can feel it in every job, management doesn't know how to handle us devs, and it's making me quit my job once again. I liked to play a bit in VR in the past, and even the not enough AR games that exist, but you do get tired of it pretty quickly. It's cool to experience it, but will I really spend the hours I usually use to play games at the computer on a VR headset? I don't think so... But I might be biased, since I have to use these devices everyday at work, so they aren't really gaming platforms for me.
This podcast episode was right up my alley- I've been playing VR regularly for the past few years and I have a lot of experience in that realm and give a lot of thought to virtual experience. The VR immersion can be incredible with the right friend group and the right games. When you're hanging out with friends, flying around together, fighting monsters together, and exploring new worlds together, it's an incredible way to connect with your loved ones to do these unique experiences with. At the end of the day, virtual or not, it's real experiences I have with friends. It gives the same feeling I get playing minecraft with friends, but with the added bonus of getting a little exercise in hahaha.
A game doesn't need to have "realistic graphics" to get me immersed in the slightest. It just needs to create an interesting game play experience. Something that is fun to do, satisfying to accomplish, and memorable to think about.
Hey Rusty! Do you remember me from the stream a while back? It was of you animating Jellie bonking Scar and Grian laughing. I loved that stream, it felt very special to be one of the few people to have seen it.
When they mention the fear of heights, I've absolutely had that experience before in Minecraft.
Another great podcast! I can see gaming going towards a ‘suit’ type thing that we order with sensors it to detect our movements accurately with a light weight headset. Immersive to me is defined by anything that takes your mind off the real world, even for two minutes. A book, game, film even streamers all are forms of immersion but it’s depends how in-depth you let it go. Your mind can take you to new places in a book. A gaming VR headset can visually take you there too. Very similar but also very different approach.
having a room dedicated to immersive gaming sounds like the Holodeck in Star Trek
These podcasts are always so amazing! Keep up the amazing work!
My first game I owned was a handheld Space Invaders game. I have loved video games my whole life. Video game playing is something I share with my whole family. I have stayed up all night playing Sims 4 because I had lost track of time. 😂 it kind of makes me nervous for virtual/AI in the future.
After listening to this podcast, it’s become clear to me that once this hermitcraft season starts to slow down and you have a couple of hours to spare in a week, you need to play Detroit Become Human. Although it has some issues in some aspects of the writing and game design. For me it’s one of the most immersive games I’ve seen with some bits of phenomenal story telling that one or both of you guys need to experience.
This is fun. You youngsters talking about video games like we did over black & white TV becoming colorized.
Oh, the memories! LOL... Quazar "works in a drawer".
Star trek holo-deck. I dred the day I have to watch commercials in-between rounds or during loading. You guys a great keep it up.
I remember playing so much guitar hero that when i would drive i would still see the notes rolling down the road
Avid Dungeons and Dragons player here: I DM for a group where the story is the main focus, that's how my players and I like to play, and I work really hard to make it as immersive as possible by adding music, ambient noises, etc. as well as writing thoroughly-thought-out stories and worlds for my players to explore. And I can tell you that it is immersive, because I've had my players tell me to my face that the things we go through in game are still on their minds weeks after. There have been times my players have audibly gasped, cheered, or been totally silent while I've been weaving my little monologues, and I'm sure some of it is respect because I'm talking, but a lot is also allowing our imaginations to take a hold and run off to this world that's similar to ours, but different, embodying these characters that are played by us, but that are different than us. One last little anecdote, a couple weeks ago my buddy ran a game as well, and immersion was an understatement, I was thoroughly afraid (by design). My friend made an intentionally very creepy setting, and as things were coming to a head and we were beginning to piece together what was going on, I could feel my heart pounding and my blood pressure elevated. I was experiencing legitimate fear from words that were being told to me. I've gone on too long, but to put it gently, yes, D&D can be thoroughly immersive, and that's one of my goals as a DM and as a player.
IMPULSE! SKIZZ! IMMERSE YOURSELF IN THESE WORDS! Did it work? 😂😂 What a wonderfully philosophical topic! As always, yall keep the podcast really engaging. Thank you!
Personal take: I think Skizz is spot on with his predictions and his perspective on the future. Immersive reality is exactly where we're headed, and it will be dangerous for humanity overall. One of the bigger downsides to gaming is how much they can and do remove people from reality already. Video game addiction is a real issue (I well know from experience). Without a very healthy dose of self-control, it's already quite easy to lose oneself into the 100+ hours of gameplay most games offer, and ignore/lose sight of real life. Video games are ever more immersive, rewarding, and addictive often designed to keep us coming back as much as possible. To further remove a layer of reality from that already dangerous dynamic doesn't necessarily lead anywhere good. Visions of Wall-e run through my head...
Would love to see Impulse taking his VR Headset for a Flight in DCS, together with Skizz and Tango for some Banter and Cheerleeding 😂.
Also seeing Skizz on Hermitcraft is pure gold. Thanks for the Podcasts and a lot of light Moments lver the Years ❤
Holy catfish, a DCS mention in the comments of the Imp and Skizz podcast? I never thought I'd see the day. Imagine the hilarity that could ensue from Skizz backseating in a Tomcat or Strike Eagle.
I'd be surprised if they have the equipment most people would say are outright required (well, if Impulse still has the pieces from his Squad heli days...), but it's fully playable with an Xbox controller if you're clever enough.
@@theleftfootedsultan haha, well while talking about immersive gamepkay that's where my brain went xD yep, tomcat would be brilliant to watch
Happy Imp and Skizz day to all who celebrate! :D I've been chaining this habit with a weekly check-in with my friend, where we both talk about the episode and/or how we're doing that week!
what a sweet friend tradition! have a good week :)
@@mymymooncat You too! :)
As someone who plays Dnd, the game is as immersive as your Dungeon master want it to be. And when you have a good Dungeon master, you feel the story, you are in it, the table stop existing, you become your character.
I can describe the best sessions we had in details about where my character was, what was happening and all that stuff, but I don't remember what was happening at the table, cause I wasn't at the table, I was in the game.
I can also say that when you are in the game, emotionnal scenes, when well done can be so good. Like any other video games it can make you *feel*, and dnd has that x100 cause you are in the story.
Tabletop roleplaying games are very immersive when you let yourself into the story and are invested and as a Dungeon Master, it is the best feeling when your story can make your players feel heroic, enraged and devestated cause of the events of it.
We're already somewhat there, in terms of the virtual keyboards. Remember when iphones had us all switch from keypads on our cell phones to tapping on a screen? And in the early days, when the keyboard wouldn't pop up all the time, so you weren't always able to type when you wanted to? In that respect, we're already beholden to the limitations of tech, since without our phones *recognizing* a space for typed input, we're not able to use the keys or numpad at all...
For me, this was always with driving games. I would always lean into the corners
same:0 lol
I'd love to see Joel and Lizzie on the podcast
For me the first game which was so immersive that it got me (well, everyone) moving around in my chair was DooM. Gaming historians will always point out that it wasn't quite the first 3D game, but it was the first that most people played. The map was 3D with large tiles for building blocks meaning there was a fairly limited amount of different terrain, but with some areas lit, others with flickering lights and areas of darkness and a killer soundtrack it was absolutely terrifying. Never mind that the monsters were 2D sprites, we had to wait for Quake for 3D enemies, but the design of DooM was so different to anything we had ever seen before. We already had plenty of flight simulators and such, X-wing was a personal favourite, but Doom was another level of immersive. Even then the graphics were not convincing, but the suspense building soundtrack and the need to peer around corners totally drew you in.
I love all your podcast. I miss imp and skizz gameplay but now I see it living on the best server in my life. You guys literally inspired me to go for my air conditioning contractors license I've been in the field since I was born basically ,in company my great-grandfather started in 1939, but the test has always been daunting me so much that I became a procrastination expert. But no longer especially after watching what skiz does with a full-time career and joining hermitcraft which has been a dream because of my full-time career, literally just inspires me even more and drives me to complete all of my tasks. Beyond an inspiration wall I have my unfathomable wall which I actually have completed tasks on, which made it literally easier to expect what was daunting me so much to become minuscule in my mind. Thank you guys so much you take your time to do this I will take my time to listen I purely enjoy every episode and even though it's completely separate from your personal accounts on what you do and what you play. I don't know you personally but I feel like we've understood each other your years... maybe even in a past life.
To the bit about companies advertising in games. There's a Swiss Insurance company that has real workers from the real world that has made a deal with Rockstar Games (I think) so that they can have an insurance shop in GTA Online. They will sell certain life insurances, car insurances etc.
This means there are people paid to sell a game-insurance in a crime game, which, to me is crazy, but also really smart advertisement.
6:32 As a car guy , I was able to get myself a book about Porsche, it was a Porsche book showing all the cars made since its first car until 2020, I got the book during the pandemic and loved reading the whole book.
Loved the podcast btw.
D&D is absolutely immersive. It really is just group storytelling with the rules simply there to give everyone a shared language. It's like sitting around a campfire as a kid and telling ghost stories.
When i was younger in the early 90's at the end of a school district psych evaluation the evaluator asked me to talk about stuff i was interested in. So of course i started in on video games. The conversation then lead to how graphics at the time were clearly discernible from "real life". I explained how 16 bit chips are not capable of generating convincing "worlds" and were not "realistic". Then i explained (i was 11 years old?) that to get more realistic graphics we needed to move to 128 bit or 256 bit processing. I find it so interesting that we've come so far in rendering & display technology, but we still are not quite there in terms of photo-realistic immersive environments. I do believe it will take a leap in processing/memory etc to get us there - probably something in a lab somewhere today nowhere ready for commercial application. Of course you need that game design and narrative or it is just a fancy viewing experience. Super fascinating episode. Definitely going to purchase that book asap. Seems immensely my cup of tea! Also huge shout out to local libraries and their staff!
I totally agree with Skizz. He nailed it.
The only positive things that I can think of for immersive reality is translations (but that does take away the value of actually learning a different language) and helping physically disabled people/ people in general get to experience things they never would have been able to otherwise or allowing people to have a job that maybe they can't do physically (at their own will, this could very easily cross into ablism, which is not something that we want to promote).
Helping people get to experience things they never would have been able to otherwise and being able to connect with people that, again, we never would have got to meet otherwise, is what I am looking forward to the most about immersive gaming or as Skizz said, immersive reality.
I do not now or have ever thought of Minecraft as a blocky game, I am fascinated by what the map & mod makers create to take the player beyond vanilla. I am awestruck at players creativity with their builds whilst Mojang evolve vanilla Minecraft further to attract future players to experience the game. Playing on a multiplayer server takes it to a whole new level,providing the server is managed correctly. Minecraft in my hope will never become obsolete.
Ever since the pandemic, I do VR bowling with my dad every week. And as Impulse says, public VR feels awkward. But there are times (more than an hour in) where my brain says I can interact with a virtual chair. I have also found that having a fan blowing on me helps keep me grounded in games that offer free roaming.
My favorite immersive VR gaming story I heard someplace - Somebody was playing a VR WW2 simulator where when you die, instead of respawning, you leave the lobby and have to join a different game (kinda like hardcore minecraft, I guess), and he met another person while pinned down by enemy fire. They got to talking about random stuff for a few hours, until the other guy got picked off by a sniper. Dead. Apparently, the guy was in actual shock, as if he really saw someone die.
I remember playing games on 8 and 16 bit systems that brought me to tears through an immersive, well-told story. It's a similar feeling to reading a good book (like Skizz's Ready Player One) that sticks with you or hearing a song and relating to it on a visceral level.
I remember playing Resident Evil 1 at night, and totally thinking the howling I heard in the distance was coming from outside my apartment. Good sound design adds so much!
I remember my first game I played on my dad's box apple computer with floppy disks and no graphics. I would go downstairs hoping my dad was not working on his computer so I could play this game. I put a disk into the computer and green words would come on the screen directing me to pick a direction (North, South, East and West) I wanted to go. No pictures nor graphics. After choosing a directions I would get a couple of sentences letting me know what was in my environment. I would continue to move through this imaginary world solving clues and picking up loot. I had to instruct the game that I was crawling or jumping over things to access the rewards. I am much older now (as I am sure you might have picked up on) and can still remember parts of the imaginary world. The immersion and joy I had playing this game kept me in the gaming world till this day.
Honestly this is one of my fav podcasts yet
when it comes to dnd, it CAN be very immersive but it takes a lot. if the dungeon master (dm) gives you vivid descriptions of what’s going on around you, that really helps. if you and the other players can get into the role playing of your characters, that really helps. despite having both of these when i played, i did not get immersed because ultimately i did not enjoy the role playing aspect. i was the only new person to dnd in the group and i felt lost. i don’t have a great memory so i would forget details a lot. if i took notes, that would have helped a lot. despite not being into dnd, i love playing baldurs gate 3. i like being able to see what’s happening and i don’t have to coordinate with other people. the video game format just works better for me. i got very immersed very quickly.
tldr: dnd is a very immersive game with the right amount of investment and preparation
Great episode. I'm currently researching immersive performance as part of my PhD, and your discussion on the definition of immersive was spot on the money! I believe that we shouldnt be arguing "how" immersive something is, rather, what you are being immersed in. Are you immersed in the fiction of the game or your own imagination? On top of that, I argue that the agency of the immersed individual should be taken into account: you have plenty of agency in an open world game, compared to the limited agency in a game like phasmophobia, or even more limited in oldschool rpgs like Ocarina of Time. Watching a VR rollercoaster is certainly immersive, but the agency is entirely limited. Thanks for the thoughtful insights!
listened as a podcast and came here just to see the book! keep up with the good work guys, you're the best ❤
There was one interesting experience I had with immersion and VR games. About a year ago, a friend of mine got a Meta Quest VR headset and it was the first time I ever played with a good, accurate VR headset. I was playing "Stride", a parkour game about running fast and shooting drones and stuff and I was playing it for almost an hour straight. Eventually, I had to swap it off to someone else and I left quickly for classes.
As I was walking down the road, there was this weird almost vertigo experience. I was walking and moving around just fine but my brain was still telling me to move like I was in the game. Like I wanted to run faster down the street by pushing up on the joystick. I still had that feeling for around half an hour.
It was similar to what Skizz was talking about with GTA and thinking about running a red light, but also different. It wasn't so much the action of wanting to run and jump across buildings, but that I felt I should be able to walk faster because of the games fast pace. We can get immersed in our games via computer screens and tvs, but there's still a boundary of a controller or keyboard and a flat screen you can easily look away from. With VR, once you put it on, you can't look away. The controller is strapped to your hands and you are so much mobile. The immersion is so much more convincing that I my body thought it was real.
I don't think it's graphics or what you can do in the game that gets people immersed, but the medium of how the game is represented. It'll be interesting to see how controllers and headsets change in the future.
My son did sound production degree - his dissertation was on history of game sound but even he started at Duck Hunt! ❤
Awesome topic.
Thanks for the many great topics in fact~
There's a VERY REAL chance I was in a PokerStarsVR lobby with Skizz during the pandemic in 2020-2022. I spent TOO MUCH of my time in that game, I loved it.
I had to read a short story for an English class a few years back called "The Pedestrian" by Ray Bradbury, which I think was written in the 50s. It about a man walking on the sidewalk at night past houses only illuminated by tv light, and then getting stopped by a police car. It plays heavily into the idea of immersive reality taking over, but from the perspective of someone who doesn't give in to it. I won't say too much more in case you want to check it out :)
I like when they bring props for the episode…it makes the show more immersive 😂
Double comment because I’m loving this podcast so much right now.
Graphics have nothing to do with good immersive gaming, the game mechanics and the ‘story’ the game designers are telling us everything. You have to ‘care’ about what you are doing and that’s what makes a game immersive :)😊
Also think you would both enjoy playing a ttrpg maybe not dungeons and dragons but possibly something cyber punk or in that ilk. Skiz in particular because it draws on your improv skills
My grandmother bought a pong unit that I played with as a kid and we had great fun. To me it felt like playing airhockey at home in a small apartment without worrying about knocking over anything and getting in trouble.
Speaking of immersive graphics and AR, the new Apple Vision Pro is a great indicator of how far we've come. From reviews I've watched, the graphics on that thing are spectacular.
It would be so cool to see some of the people in the life series like Skizz, Impulse, Ren, and Martyn do a D&D campaign
Tango talked about it on a stream and basically said he wouldn’t do it because the toxic internet DM’s would be too crazy.
@@Tomlinmx5 not all of them have to be in it. Fair reason to not want to though
Little kid me saw my parents playing D&D and wondered how they could be having fun sitting around a table and talking and looking at sheets of paper and sometimes rolling funny dice. Then about 20 years ago my best friend in college is talking about something that happened in D&D and there is no mention of the info on the character sheet, no mention of dice. Just a story of what happened. Having played D&D (one campaign I am in has been going for 3-4 years and we are level 18) it is probably the most immersive thing I play.
- Donkey Kong Game-and-Watch - I have one of those on my desk (right now).... and Oil Panic, Popeye and Octupus. Such a great time.
- Microsoft's headset is the HoloLens
- The Surface (table) did come out for a short period -- I was in charge of debug support for it!
I am using my Quest 3 to play a game called Ghosts of Tabor. It's like VR version of Tarkov. It's incredibly immersive. Makes your heart rate go up and spooks you, and you use weapons like you would in real life. It's insane, but SO fun.
Love the show!
It is interesting to hear the modern definition of immersive gaming. The first truly immersive game I remember playing was Colossal Caves - a text-based interactive fiction game that lived on an 8” floppy drive. While there were no graphics to the game itself, my mind generated the ‘graphics’ based upon the descriptions given to a point where I was immersed in the game.
While I enjoy modern video games, I do find it sad that we now rely on imagery given to us versus allowing our minds to generate the imagery.
As a video game collector. I have so much more respect for impulse now.
I remember being astounded by the zapper for duck hunt lol was just absolutely incredible to me at the time. Still is in a way
There is this slowmotion video of it on TH-cam where they show how it worked. It is incredible how clever the makers were for inventing that joystick.
In short. There is 1 frame after you press the shoot button, where the ducks are a square of white light with the rest of the screen being black. And a light sensor in the gun is picking up if you hit the duck or not in that frame.
@@Questerer I'll have to see if I can find that. I have learned since I was a kid how it worked but I haven't ever seen a demonstration like that would be neat to see thank you 😊
Hey guys ! (Absolutely loving the podcast by the way).
If you hadn’t already I would love to hear you talking about improving yourself! 👍
I am in desperate need of some tips 😅
I think a huge part of immersive gaming, or tbh anything immersive, is emotional connection. I think the reason we get immersed in books, movies, or games is because we develop an emotional attachment to characters or objects we’ve found or built. The more emotionally invested you get in anything, the more immersed in that thing you will be.
(I’m not an expert on any of this though, just my opinion)
I loved decked out but I struggled to watch you guys play because I would get immersed and nervous for you guys and I hated the heart beat as it got faster it gave me so much anxiety but it was so fun to see you all hanging out between rounds.
Although I see the allure of VR gaming and I think it will continue as an slice of the overall gaming pie, I don't see it getting much bigger than it is now. Cost, space requirements, and comfort all play a factor and I don't think we're there yet.
Immersion is more about connecting with a world and its characters, not "fooling" anyone. That's why Minecraft and PacMan and other "low-fi" games have such devoted fans who continue to be immersed in those worlds.
9:40 you didn’t think anyone did this, but my brother got VERY immersed in those old Nintendo games, so much so that he actually DID jump every time his character jumped. It would be impossible for him to play sitting down. Video games was his exercise because he got so immersed😂
Speaking on the feel of game immersion , new vs old, the immersion now taps into your imagination and you escape reality. Game immersion in the 80's, 90's and early 2k...tapped into feeling self accomplishment and the reward from dedication. It started out preparing the brain and now they try and separate from it
I know I'm late to the party and this game is a little too mature for likely your guy's target audience but I think you'd both enjoy playing Baulders Gate 3. Its biased on the D&D system so it much plays like the table top game with the benefit of a virtual space to be in. At the same time though, the game is so large that there is always fun builds and unique things to do throughout the story of the game. The best part about it for me is that I've finished two runs of the game (about 300 hours in total) and I am still finding new ways to play and deal with fights/NPC interactions (Not to mention the unique dark urge play through). On top of that, some of the best moments are the interactions I've had with friends playing the game together. Truly a feet of talent and dedication that these, to use Skizz's words, fishermen are able to hook us in and create this environment where if you don't stop yourself you're hooked in for hours and hours at a time. My friends have pulled much inspiration from the game to help build our own stories and visuals in the actual tabletop version.
Also in my opinion, as a person who grew up with the first PlayStation consoles I genuinely believe we will continue to make these virtual environments more and more immersive. When you guys were talking about the full haptic rooms and the need for extra sensations like touch and smell I thought of these game branded scent canisters that almost are like the smells added to Disney World, like with Main Street.
This is a whole other side note but I remember being introduced to both your channels from your Naked and Scared series years before you guys were both on Hermitcraft. To be able to watch this growth and quality content is amazing and to be able to get to know your motivations and content through another source in podcasting is awesome. Keep up the great work and doing the good things!
How Skizz describes feeling on the tall, one block wide bridges while playing Naked and Scared is how i feel every time I'm "death bridging" while end busting for the first time on a world. Just terrified of falling into the void where it feels how i feel in real life near edges at heights.
Immersion is all about our own mind filling in after being provided with the best triggers along the way, illustrated by how the book is almost always better than the movie!
A great anime to also summons up this podcast is SAO (sword art online) on of my favorite to watch
When I started playing Minecraft I played nothing else at the time. My mind did something so wild I got scared. I stopped playing for the day and when I looked up from the screen, everything was pixelated. Everything! I blinked my eyes, and it didn't go away. Gradually, though(of course) it did stop but, man, that was so scary. And it happened more than once. It has stopped because I have incorporated more breaks in my gameplay.
It's really funny timing. Your cold open is talking about Ready Player One, and I am about 10 hours into that audio book. The movie was fine for a Hollywood adaptation, but the book really gets gritty on just how far gone a lot of us are when it comes to social media and "gotta have it" tech.
I've been playing dnd all my life! It's theater of the mind, plus dice, so as long as you have a good GM (game master) and group, it can be amazing! There's all kinds of different systems now, so if Medieval High Fantasy isn't your thing, there's Modern, Future, even Cyberpunk!
I'd love to hear about how you guys met! I remember watching a GIGS stream and you mentioned you were both teachers at the time, sounds like a cool story
i think they do that in one of the first podcasts
The point where Skizz mentions about wanting to pick people off from Golden Eye reminded me of how I played GTA with my dad and we constantly commented IRL of "Oh there'd totally be a hidden package there" or "That's a unique stunt spot" LOL
One of my favourite "non-hermit" episode so far. This such an interesting topic to discuss!
One of the best immersive games ever in my opinion is red dead redemption 2, its insane how i can feel so in the game by looking at it through my tiny little tv in my bedroom! This topic is so good!
I wholeheartedly agree with Skizz in all his points.
I am a verbal thinker so it's really hard for me to get immersed and things like books and board games and even video games sometimes but because I can't see the visual my brain saying the visual in real life helps me get immersed
@ImpAndSkizzPodcast Responding to Skizz's comments about the dangers of Immersive Reality over Immersive Gaming. I actually have the fortune to work at a company (based in Scottsdale, AZ) in the division of that company that is building VR Training for public safety uses. We're endeavoring to help train police officers, first responders, and security personnel to be able to respond to situations that they have never been in before (and are impossible/very difficult/too costly to train for via traditional training) in order to facilitate a better, less lethal, outcome. Ultimately, we're trying to save lives.
Examples:
1. Most officers never recieve useful training on how to handle a situation involving Autistic or mentally handicapped individuals. VR Training could run them thru many different scenarios before they ever encounter a real life one.
2. When faced with a situation that turns violent quickly, help train individuals to quickly determine if a less-than-lethal solution exists (e.g. taser, etc) rather than immediately going for the lethal option.
Additionally, by using a VR environment, an individual can complete training on a much more frequent basis, and often can train by themselves. This represents a massive cost and time savings for individuals and agencies.
There is training potential in just about every aspect of Public Safety. And in this context, the more realistic we can make the trainings, the better.
Just some food for thought!
This podcast is my favorites it’s tied The one with bdubs
A podcast topic that would be really interesting would be futurism. Love to hear you guys go on for an hour about what you think future technology or even society will be like.
Woah when did this come out? You guys have a podcast? That's frickin awesome I can't wait to listen to the other episodes!
We had Pong, it was AMAZING!! for it's day. Controlling a game on our TV felt like the future!
Honestly, I think Skiz is being a realist which is 9 times out of 10 pessimistic.
But 50 years from now, it would be cool to see something with holographic gaming or visual display that you can interact with. Be fun to turn your house into your own phasmophobia game. 😱 omg, that would be a crazy horror movie though. Was it a real ghost or a hologram?