Movie Family Therapy: AVATAR The Way of Water
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2023
- Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/CINEMATHERAPY and enter promo code CINEMATHERAPY for an exclusive offer and 3 extra months for FREE!
How do you accept influence from your children? How do you create a safe family environment?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright are watching Avatar: The Way of Water and diving into movie family therapy with the Sully family. They focus mostly on Jake and his military-like parenting style and how he treats his family like a squad. Jonathan explains what it takes to feel safe in a family, both physically and emotionally, and how to let your children make their own decisions and mistakes. Alan comments on the mind-boggling work that goes into making lifelike digital characters and world. And he praises the actors’ motion capture performances, particularly Sigourney Weaver playing a teenager and crushing it!
This episode was filmed during the Writer’s Strike.
According to SAG-Aftra, independent film reviewers are welcome to discuss movies that have already come out. These films were produced under previous contracts and wouldn’t be affected by any changes resulting from the strike.
Any praise for the films we discuss is praise for the writers, actors, directors, and so many other artists and craftspeople who made them. Without their labor, we wouldn’t be able to watch our favorite films together. Without their labor, our show wouldn’t be as impactful. Without their labor, our show wouldn’t exist.
We support their strike efforts. If you’d like to support them as well, go to www.entertainmentcommunity.org.
Support us!
Patreon: / cinematherapy
Merch: store.dftba.com/collections/c...
Internet Dads Popcorn: ctpopcorn.com
Cinema Therapy is:
Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, Alan Seawright, and Corinne Demyanovich
Edited by: Trevor Horton, tzhediting.com
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
Connect with us!
Website: www.thecinematherapy.com
Discord: / discord
Instagram: / therapy_cinema
TikTok: / therapy_cinema
Twitter: / therapy_cinema
Facebook: / therapycinema - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
![[TH] VCT Masters Shanghai Playoffs DAY 5 // 100T vs PRX | FUT vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/q75pv359eP4/mqdefault.jpg)
Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/CINEMATHERAPY and enter promo code CINEMATHERAPY for an exclusive offer and 3 extra months for FREE!
Cinema Therapy AND Avatar. I'm so happy 🎉🎉🎉. 2 of my favourite things. Could you guys do the 1st film (the Extended Collector's Edition)?
Could you also do therapy for the other characters, like Quaritch and Spider?
Can you please breakdown the Disney movie Meet the Robinsons? ❤
I think that's why Jake was so hard on Lo'ak. Because he was just like him. Independent, reckless and a bit of a dumbass. All he ever wanted throughout the movie was to feel accepted and appreciated and a place to belong. He even said to Aonung the "He knows how it felt to be one big disappointment". And Neteyam takes after Neytiri. He's more calm but still a badass when needed, good at the bow and arrow and he even looks like her, while Lo'ak looks similar to his father, Jake.
Hey guys! Could you guys analyse Brooklyn (2015) please? The one with Saoirse Ronan in it!
It's important to mention that Jake wasn't always a strict father. In the first few minutes, we see him teaching and playing with his kids, going on dates with his mate, and happy. It wasn't until he saw the RDA's ships that he reverted back into soldier mode
It’s actually a pretty good depiction of repressed PTSD. Considering Jakes history, the thought that at some point the RDA could return has got to have been there all along.
Thats what i was thinking. They only showed a little of the happy childhood they had before the war began again but Jake was much more of an effectionate parent.
You’re right about that and I think you’re making a good point that they didn’t realize which is that when you’re at war, you’re always in soldier mood, even when it seems like you don’t need to be. I also think it softens us as an audience towards Jake to know that he is harsh more out of fear of losing his kids, as he said, than he is about being a strict disciplinarian just because, which is why seeing that part at the beginning of him just being loving and sweet towards them is important.
@@cappinjocj9316 I agree that Jake has a form of PTSD, but I don't think it's 100% from his time as a Marine. In the opening scene of the first movie, we learn that he lost his brother, his TWIN, to a robbery gone wrong. This had to have messed him up somehow, and his sense of helplessness enhanced everything he was taught by the military. I feel like that tragedy is a huge part of why he becomes so over-protective of his kids. (9/19/2023)
@@daniellemusella1594 That's a good point. As a twin, I can't even imagine how horrific that would be to live through.
Neytiri’s reaction to her oldest dying Is so real. I’ve seen movies where the reaction on the death of a child where it’s just a silent cry or maybe a sob. But this? If I lost a child, or my mom or sister or my partner? This is exactly how I would react. I’d be crying, screaming, denying, wailing… Zoe is incredible
Fr. Gregory Boyle, the founder of Homeboy Industries, once described the sound a mother makes when her child has died as this: "It is chilling and as horrifying a sound as I've encountered in my life."
It was also wrenching in the scene with Kate Winslet and the whales, both actors were incredible in this movie and both didn't have enough screen time.
What is so incredible to me is that actors can give that kind of performance in the circumstances that CGI demands, working in bare studios, wearing motion-capture equipment, etc. The imagination they must have to envision what the audience will eventually see…kudos! 👍
@@meganrogers3571 Many years ago I heard a man make that sound. He was a university professor who had just been told his wife had died in a car accident an hour before. The sound he made as he dropped to his knees chilled everyone who heard it. No one moved or spoke for minutes afterward. It was horrific😢
It’s the sound of your heart breaking while your soul is ripped apart.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." I loved that Kiri is depicted as having a close bond with the Sullys, despite not being biologically related to them, and they treat her as one of their own.
But not Spider, 'cause RACISM
@@claire3614 braindead take. Neytiri was the only one who felt that way about spider, and that's because when she was 18 his dad destroyed a sacred site, destroyed her home, killed the thanator she was on while she was still connected to it, and nearly killed her mate all within a matter of days. That's a hell of a lot of trauma she's never fully gotten over, and spider was a convenient scapegoat.
@@rickhillegas2414 he's also the reason her dad died in her arms :')
@@rickhillegas2414Fax. This reason for this was especially obvious once Neteyam died. They handled grief like soldiers. The only noticeable reaction was the mother but that's consistent with her character losing things close to her. With Spider, they sadly didn't really have time to worry. He was an aspect of their old life in the forest.
@@rickhillegas2414 It's not a "braindead take". For one thing, it's probably intended as comedic exaggeration to use the word "racism" when we're talking about science fiction species, given the all-caps emphasis. And yes, it's mainly just Neytiri that hates Spider... but he is treated differently than Kiri by Jake as well. Kiri is described by him as being adopted and a member of the family despite her mysterious conception of Grace's avatar... but he makes a point of describing Spider as "not part of our family... he was just always around". They didn't choose to adopt him right away like they did with Kiri. They left him at the lab to be raised by them, which they could have done with Kiri if they hadn't wanted to adopt her. I imagine if she had been born as a human from Grace's human body, she might not have been accepted as readily.
It's true that they, particularly Neytiri, have negative feelings towards him because of Quaritch. But given that their opposition to Quaritch fell along "race" lines (species, but in sci-fi/fantasy, that tends to represent race) and culture clash, which of course Quaritch and the other RDA humans started... but still, to judge all humans for it would indeed by prejudiced, and the reason for negatively associating Spider with Quaritch are a genetic fallacy of blaming a son for the sins of the father, and are inspired by "racial" tensions. Neytiri's prejudice towards him is indeed depicted as a negative thing in the movie, and I do believe this is consciously intended to be a part of the anti-racism themes in the story. Yes, they do explain Neytiri's "racism" with believable psychological trauma... but that does not excuse it, nor make it not "racism". Racists have all kinds of psychological motivations for being racist too.
Both things can be true... Neytiri is a 3-dimensional character with believeable and understandable motivations for acting the way she does... AND she's being prejudiced the same way racists are on Earth.
This is actually the entire point of having Neytiri's storyline be like this. To show that racism can go both ways. Victims of racism will tend to become racist in response. And it's wrong both times. Obviously, we put more blame on the side that started it, because we have to. How else do we prevent this to begin with, if we don't hold the one that started it accountable? But that doesn't mean we ignore the lesser evil just because we understand the motivations as making more sense. When it's hurting an innocent party like Spider represents, it will only cause more problems... as we see when Spider feels alienated by Neytiri and that's probably part of why he chooses to save Quaritch. The problem just perpetuates itself if you don't find a link that stops the cycle. We'll always have Quaritchs in the world, and they should be "killed" (prevented somehow from acting in harmful ways)... but hopefully Neytiri will choose to stop the cycle when she realizes it's causing problems... probably in the form of turning Kiri against her, or breaking the whole family apart if she continues to keep rejecting Spider. Hate and division only causes further hate and division. And Neytiri's motivations will probably be understandable as things get worse... finding out that Spider saved Quaritch is going to make her hate him even more. Of course it would. But like i just said, Spider might not have done that if he had felt more accepted into the Sullys, which he could have been if Neytiri had been more open to him. It's all part of a causal chain that Neytiri is a part of. And it's not worth it to keep hating Spider for Quaritch's sins if it means losing the family she does care about... if she realizes this, she'll break the chain and become reformed from her "racism". Quaritch probably never will, and this will be meant to show that victims are the ones who are often more capable of being the bigger person. It's always assholes like Quaritch, or soulless greedy business interests like the RDA, that keep starting these things. If victims choose not to respond with perpetuating of a cycle of prejudice, then you don't become an asshole. You can fight against prejudice and other injustices that fall along demographic lines, without becoming prejudiced yourself. I think that will ultimately be what Neytiri's story is about, with her having to learn that lesson along the way. I imagine Jake eventually having to remind her of his former life as a human will be part of her change of heart, as she may have lost touch with that fact over the years of knowing Jake only in his Na'vi body. He may even have to reveal more stuff he did in his past that makes him a lot like Quaritch, but he's changed. ... but anyway, I'm speculating a lot now. Point is, I believe the theme of "racism" is very much intended and they're going somewhere with it.
I don't think that Zoe Saldaña (Neytiri) gets enough credit for what a great actress she is and I think a lot of that is because she's usually playing humanoid aliens in genre movies. Her performance as new Gamora in Guardians 3 is one of that movie's most underappreciated aspects.
:0 I had *no idea* that she played as Gamora, like WHAT! No wonder she felt so familiar when I watched the Guardians series!
I absolutely and completely agree!!!
She was also Nyota Uhura in Star Trek
Agree! We need a new section on awards for this kind of act alone (motion capture), so Andy Serkis and Zoe Saldana can get their long due respect for their skills
Zoe is f'in fantastic. She really _lives_ the scenes. Her sobbing gets to me, in a way that most other actors don't manage. Not that others are bad, but there's something very real about Zoe's performance and her reactions as Neytiri, to death around her.
You'd be surprised at how effective the 73 year old Sigourney Weaver was at playing a 14 year old girl. It sounds ridiculous on paper, but she really made it work. Her voice sounds huskier and older, though not unrealistically mature.
I felt it was a really intentional and interesting choice. Her character is an old soul and somewhat "other" because of her especially deep connection to Eywa. Which I think came across well.
I saw people mention the voice but after seeing the Indiana Jones 5 deepfake, I think it's actually even more amazing how much Sigourney sounds like a teenager (and in-universe she has the cloning stuff so that might explain something). Cuz in Indy 5, the voice did NOT match the face at all, it was super jarring, which I remember was probably an issue with The Irishman too tbf. Idk how they did it but the voice was really as well done as it could've been without altering too much. Then again I'm very sure deepfaking voice AI will be good enough in the future where they can pitch it down.
I didn’t know anything about her playing the child and didn’t think anything strange about the character. The voice for imo. Face didn’t look bad either. Which leads me to believe that ppl who dislikes the decision just can’t unsee it or are trying to find a reason to hate the movie that just isn’t valid. Regardless, I don’t see an issue with it, so I don’t care
That's cause she's a queen, she slays
I'm still hoping that Blomkamp's Alien 5 (or as I like to call it, Alien 3 reboot) can still happen with Weaver. It's supposed to be a new timeline where Alien 3 and 4 did not happen, where Ripley and an older Newt return, along with Hicks and Bishop. I'm not sure what the plot was going to be but the artwork for the film looks amazing. It almost happened after Prometheus was made, but Ridley Scott used his connections at Fox to pull the plug on the project and we got Alien: Covenant instead.
Jake's "I see you, son" at the end was where I lost it. Such a beautiful and powerful sentence. I really liked how the kids stole the show at the end by saving both of their parents. They did exactly as Jake asked "Learn fast", and they did. Watching this movie in theaters, in 3D, was such an unforgettable experience 😄
It was an unforgettable experience. I don’t watch many movies in theaters, but I did watch that one in 3D and it was worth every penny!
Same here. I was sobbing. 😭
Same. Crying hard and saw it twice more in the cinema ❤
The editors kill me every time.
Someone give these guys an award. 😂
Our editors are the best!!
Even the subtitles are great, they often have little jokes
Agreed!
@@CinemaTherapyShowthey are!
yes! they/the subtitles make me laugh almost as much as the guys lol
It was cut off from the first movie but Jake has lived so many wars. He was a soldier in the human wars, he was a soldier in the human Na'vi wars, he was a soldier as a na'vi. With a life like his I wouldn't blame him to have become a stone. He never dreamed of having a family, he most probably never even cared if he died or not but now he has a big family that depends on him and we can see clearly how desperate he is. He wants his kids to grow up as fast as possible and become warriors so that they can protect themselves when he's gone. He's terrified.
I think Neytiri, who wants to die fighting with her clan, would be just as "harsh" on the children.
@@charoleawood I think now that she lost neteyam she probably will be more harsh on them now, I can't wait to see her character development in the next movies.. I'm pretty sure something snapped in her mind after loosing her child
He wasn't a soldier, he was a Marine. But you do have a point that he's terrified. He fought in an unspecified war in Venezuela, but it was more than likely a very destructive one. If it was anything like Vietnam or the Pacific war, Jake would've seen some of the absolute worst acts a human can commit, not just from the enemy, but from his comrades. The Marine corps has been well known as probably the most ruthless and brutal of the branches. In WW2 they killed killed enemy soldiers trying to surrender in case they were carrying a grenade, and would also take human skulls as trophies. In Vietnam would kill children due to the very real threat of them being Vietcong, as well as torment and torture anyone they believed was an enemy.
And there's a very real possibility that Jake committed a couple of war crimes himself depending on how bad the war got and how bad the enemy was. That's why Jake is scared, he's not afraid of humanities technology, though that's definitely a factor, he's afraid of what humans are willing to do in order to get the job done.
TBF in WWII their enemy is the Japanese Imperial Army which is notorious for never surrendering and their madness torturing. The marines killing all enemies is a normal reaction when 90% of the time the enemies that surrender do have grenades hiding on them
@@azukib2230 True. And that's likely why the IDF is stripping enemy terrorists down to their skivvies.
I felt the #cryingwithalan during Neteyam’s funeral. The family coming together to lay him to rest with Eywa, and then connecting to the tribe’s ancestral tree and seeing him again. Them officially accepting the place as their home, and where they can still feel their son’s spirit.
I’ve never lost a child, but I have lost friends and family members, and I feel like that scene really captures those emotions.
nah cause that scene sends me sobbing every time. not because of the emotions, but the fact that the last thing Neteyam wanted was to go home.. but he never did so. Even in death he was put to rest in a place he never fully accepted as his home, next to navi he never even heard of.
I agree that Lo'ak is almost the exact replica of young Jake - and that is why I believe Jake is harder on him, because he KNOWS what he brough upon himself with his behaviors and stuff, and when he saw that in his younger boy, he tried to stop it from happening. and i agree 100% with everything you are saying - you practically say everything i think and feel
That is EXACTLY how my dad was with me. He always knew exactly what I was thinking even if I tried to hide it because he was the same way growing up. I am my father’s daughter. And he was much harder on me than my brothers growing up because of this.
I liked the family dynamic well enough, though I found it kinda messed up that, not only do they seem only minimally concerned when Spider is kidnapped, but nobody confronts Neytiri for what she did to him. I get that Jake saw him as a ‘stray cat’, frequently seen but not really ‘theirs’, but aside from Kiri mentioning missing him ONCE, the kids seemingly forget all about him until the climax rolls around.
I just expect this to build up in the future and have meaningful consequences
I noticed that as well. As far as the kids go, I think part of it is they are growing up in a war zone. I think losing people is common enough where they have to just move on
I’m hoping the next one will be about her bring a mom the way this one was about jake being a dad. I want this explored to the max and I have faith it will be.
It’s one thing I didn’t mind since so many movies are already planned, that it’s most likely done on purpose for future plots.
There's what, 2 or 3 other movies planned? I'm sure it'll be featured more in the other films. They probably left it unresolved in this movie on purpose, so it makes for a more dramatic resolution in the future films (whether it's a good or bad resolution). James Cameron loves foreshadowing. It just sucks because it'll take longer, since he's been given a whole saga series now 😂
This episode is SO important for me right now. My husband is so hard on our son and he’s still very tiny and I’ve been trying to voice to him that he doesn’t have to just be hard but he needs to be open w him and thank y’all this was a beautiful episode
You're so welcome. :)
As a father it’s a hard balance.
On one side you’re trying to protect your child, because you know the world is unfair and hard.
On the other side, you’ve got to be emotionally available for your kids, because a father’s job goes beyond just “protect”.
I hope this episode can help him learn the importance of gentle connection. Family needs to be a safe place for a kid, not an extension of the "tough world" that many strict parents think they're preparing them for.
@@infamouschathe world not being kind is exactly why you don't need to be cruel to your kid. The world will tear them apart for you. Your goal os to soften the blows and give them the know how to make sure that as you step away that they can catch, dodge, and tank those hits. They can't do that if you tear them down. Mentally and emotionally tearing your child down so they can "learn how to be in the real world," would be like teaching your child how to run by physically paralyzing them. It doesn't matter what you tell them or what they learn if they aren't capable of actually applying it because of what YOU did to them. You teach them how to run by teaching them how to breathe when running, how to eat and stay hydrated, and you run along side them so they can learn by example. This way they can build the muscles and endurance to run and keep running. So when it's time for them to do it on their own, they can apply all you taught them.
Or that's how I see it. You job is to protect them and to try and keep the world from scarring them while accepting that the world will hurt them and they even hurt themsleves as they prat fall from time to time because they're children and are learning.
@@infamouschaBeing harsh doesn't equal protecting or making them stronger, it's literally the opposite. The "father's role" is just raising a confident, balanced, capable, assertive and what not child/future adult. No need to make a broken warrior out of a child without valuable coping skills "because the world is harsh and you need to get used to it".
I actually found the siblings dynamic very real. I'm the older sibling and I'm expected to be an example, to take responsibility, to keep the others out of trouble, especially when I was younger. Always trying to do right, and always seeking your parents' approval. Your younger siblings might hate you too for always being the "perfect" one, etc. So I really felt the dynamic between the two brothers. That's me and my younger sister, the "rebel" one. It's pretty complex. And I can understand both sides. I just wished they showed a bit more about Neteyam's struggle and the weight he was carrying in his shoulders.
Yeah, Netyam did not get enough screen time. I'm hoping there comes to be an extended cut like for the first movie, because the Collector's Cut of Avatar 1 elevates it to the next level. It's that way with all Cameron flicks, he cuts way too much.
When I heard Sigourney Weaver would be returning in Avatar The Way of Water I expected she would be her previous character Grace in a memory. No, the 65 year old (now 73) played a deceased Grace's 15-year old daughter...and nailed it! Also shout out to unknown Britain Dalton's amazing performance as Lo'ak. These actors, and the movie itself, deserves a lot more credit. Loved it! 🤩
Saw some of kiri on youtube MAN sigourney is a GREAT actress, we need her to do more voice acting i say, preferably maybe something related to avatar way of water like a series spinoff or a game!!
@@msk-qp6fn
*performance capture
I love that they made Way of Water more personal for Jake and his family. In the first movie, the personal story was small just because the main story was about the larger conflict of Pandora's Wildlife vs the Human Corporations. While that is still at play, and is more relevant with rising lea levels and pollution of bodies of water, Jake's journey as a loving, but flawed father makes it feel so much more down to earth. And him saying "I see you, son". by the end feels so earned.
Many people for some reason didn't like this movie but I think it's actually better than the Original. Way of the Water takes a great approach of mental family tolls. It makes you see the depth and development of the whole Sully Family. It shows the emotional toll on the children when told orders and confronted about their issues. But immediately afterward shows that they do care for each other. Even down to their son's death, it shows the love and mourning they are all facing especially Neytiri.
I agree. I thought that this movie was much better than the first since there's a lot more layers to its story and characters. Although it was, in my opinion, too long, it was still great.
I think why some people aren’t a fan of this one because on the surface level, it’s extremely similar to the first Avatar.
It also seemed a little formulaic to me. I quit watching when they left the forest.
I didn't like it because I spent all the first movie with Jake and Neytiri but they are largely pushed to the back seat in this movie until the very end. It felt disconnected that they'd focus so much on the kids, then hop into a Jake monologue, then go back to ignoring the parents for 30 more minutes. And it was too long.... It's gorgeous, but had maybe 3 too many swimming/ocean montages. I felt like the first had better montages because they were able to show different things. The land, the creatures, the dragons, the flying scenes, the trees and the floating mountains all felt like characters all to themselves. idk.... I think I've always loved the first movies in series like this because there's fewer characters to bond with and tighter stories. There's so many to get to know in this one that it felt watered down. I saw the point that Jake and Neytiri spent too long worrying while the kids were growing and learning new things and in the end it was that gained knowledge that saved them all, but.... mehhhh.
I think I would agree with you that this is better. Not only story wise but as well as the visual effects and world building. I regret not seeing this on the big screen. 😢
As an army brat, seeing this hit so damn hard for me. Everything Jake does, I remember my brother doing after he got out of the army, to the point where I remember thinking "Who the hell is this? Idk who came back from post, but it isn't my brother. This isn't the guy who stood up to school bullies for me, this isn't the guy who helped me get my first experience of a runner's high that made me fall in love with running, this isn't the guy who spent weeks modding an Xbox to give to me for Christmas...I don't know this guy. He's just someone who treats me like a lowly recruit now, and I was born into this family. I didn't ENLIST into it." Seeing the kids clearly having that same sense of hurt, confusion and resentment is just....wow. Like looking in a big, tall, blue mirror.
The military changes a person. And even when in peacetime, it's not easy for someone to just shift back out of that mindset, especially when they're afraid. Just like Jake is afraid for his kids, and he goes back into Soldier Mode to cope with that, but it's just...not a healthy dynamic for a family. When the threat's gone, they're you're kids, not your troops.
8:45 there’s a glimmer of a tear in Jake’s eyes when he says
“I though we lost them.”
Fantastic animators, just wanted to point that out.
I noticed that too!
I loved this! I also do want to add that despite Neteyam being projected as the “perfect son” that even before he died, I don’t think he believed that or felt that way. Neteyam tried his best to be the version of himself that Jake wanted him to be, even putting himself in the same protector role as his father, even when he did what was right to protect his family; Following Lo’ak into danger on two accounts and helping him fight the reef kids, to ensure Lo’ak’s safety, because that’s what his father taught him, “cause you’re the older brother, you gotta act like it”. It’s just so heartbreaking that Neteyam didn’t get his own “I see you” moment from Jake.
Minor detail in the dialogue that I love: Neytiri says to Jake at one point "this is not a squad, it is a family".
At some point during the last ten years, Jake likely opened up to her about his past life as a Human and his military service and she learned the word "squad" from him as a result.
When they’re all next to the whale together and Jake says “Sullys stick together,” it reminds me of my parents driving 12 hours up to help me escape and move away from my abusive (now ex) husband. We all got together and planned my escape and my parents jokingly said “go team [last name]!” To try and alleviate the heaviness of the situation.
I love them.
One thing I would like to add for the first movie is as someone with a disability. Seeing him be able to move, to RUN, and not have the barriers he faced for almost all his adult life made me cry with joy. Because in that moment when you are so drawn in you are Sully. The feeling of running, flying and freedom is indescribable… that makes the first movie important for me.
Jake saying "I see you, son" really struck me harder than I was expecting it to, I was trying to keep from making sobbing noises in the theater for the rest of the movie after that. That's what I've wanted from my parents my whole life, to be seen, as I am.
I just HATE what they did to Netiry in this movie. In the first she was an assertive and strong warrior, who inherited her father's bow as he died, leading to her supposingly becoming their group leader. We see that bow coming back time and time again in the movie I suppose as a metaphor for something ? But nothing ever happens with it, only for it to break at the end of the film and that doesn't have any impact on anything to her. Her last connection to her original tribe, her family, gone, but that doesn't lead anywhere else. First thing they do in the next movie is moving them to a new location, making her loose supposedly all family connexions / friends she ever had + her title wich completely disapears in favor of patriarch Scully. All we ever see her do all movie is be sad / a stay at home mom / angry with grief (that's the only trait she seems to have kept form the previous film). I was waiting for her to interfer every step of the way during the movie but it seems she doesn't deserve to be seen as the character she was in the first film anymore. Also it makes NO sense for her to be the one rejecting Spider in the begining of the filmwhen she's litteraly the one who brought Scully into the Naavi's lives.
(Sorry for the rant I hope everything is understandable in what I sad, english not being my first langage.)
Everything made sense! And you made an interesting point, to boot. :D
I totally agree with you, Neytiri had little power left. Especially in her relationship with Jake. Several times in the film she sits on the floor and cooks while Jake stands by and thinks and decides about the important things on his own. What she wants is not even asked or simply ignored. What Jake says is done. For me, this is absolutely not a partnership of equals and therefore not a good one.
Its helpful to see that Netiri's only connection into the plot of this movie is her family, and so that is the role she plays in it. The movie is primarily focused on a lasting conflict that centers around Jake and how that conflict affects their kids. Obviously the movie is mostly about the children, specifically the younger boy and weird daughter, which is made apparent from their dynamic characterization through the film. All other character's are rather static, because they aren't the central focus of the movie. In fact, Jake is a secondary focus, and that means Netiri is really tertiary, essentially a background character. In the first movie she was only a secondary character, because the main character was undoubtedly Jake. Its impossible to say whether she'll be a primary character in any Avatar movies and/or if Jake will continue to be the only main character, but its important to understanding why she has a diminished role in the second compared to the first.
@@Martick05545 An I understand that completely ! It just feels like she was tossed to the bin with her history, culture and everything she held dear : Her native home + friends, we don't even get a reaction from her about how she feels. Does she miss her home ? Has she left anyone behind ? The bow being broken really was the last straw for me, as I mentionned above there are multiple occasions in the movie where we see her looking at it / touching it as a symoblic gesture but it never leads anywhere. I truly thought there would be a moment where she'd be the one telling Scully that he essentially robbed her of everything she used to be / have back in the forest. I thought there'd be a moment where she'd ressent him (she has multiple reasons for it too as the movie goes on) and tell him on his military bullshit. The first movie was about him learning the way of Eywa, respect and connection to these new people around himand nature. Second movie he forgets all about it and makes his family a Marine Squad, leaves the tribe he's supposed to be the leader of (not even mentionning that his wife is supposed to be the leader as equal part too ??). It was a huge disappointement to me to see that her own beliefs and character just weren't there anymore. She was supposed to be a kind of resentful character, brave and proud of her culture the rightful Omaticaya leader. Now she's just a mom in the shadow of her military husband, a political refugie and a forgotten leader that even Ronal (The Metkayina's Tsahik) doesn't seem to give any respect to. I just feel like he got robbed. (sorry for the rant :'D)
Oh I get this though. Neytiri's tribe put a lot of importance their shaman leader who is always female from my understanding and it does sound like despite this, all importance was given to Jake. And since they had to move away from the forest, Neytiri presumably would lose her edge as a hunter and warrior and even as a shaman.
The How to Train Your Dragon theme over the scene of the ikran war party sent me, the editing is always top tier on this channel but that was hilarious
The way Jake’s parenting is more like a military commander reminds me of how my dad described my grandfather’s parenting when he was growing up including the discipline measures that happen in the army because my grandfather was a member of the army and fought in Vietnam and by the time I was born my mom didn’t want me and my sisters to be raised in a similar manner and my dad and grandfather took a path to becoming closer once I was born until my grandfather died of stomach cancer in 2014 and now that my grandmother is also gone it makes me miss him this video makes feel a little bit better about this week because it marks nine years since my grandfather died
I’m in the army and I like seeing my buddies with kids turn off the “army” when it comes to their kids and spouse. We all take “leave it at work” very seriously. Especially on hard days or weeks where we don’t come home.
@@kiachaotic6554 I'm proud of you guys. I'm sure that can't be easy. But you understand the importance of gentle parenting, and props to you for that.
I don’t know that I can cut Jake some slack in that moment. He just gave a whole speech to his wife about how she needed to be strong for her children and then he turned around and pulled the weakest shit ever with his son. Can I empathize with him? Yes. Does he still need to be held accountable for the way that he failed his son in that moment? Also yes. Parents should always be held accountable for the ways they hurt their children, even when they themselves are also hurting.
Yeah, I feel you. I get why he lashed out like that, but he just brutally shot at his son in such a vulnerable moment for Lo'ak. That's a wound that will not be healed easily, even after he's told "I see you".
A lot of faceplam moments for jake it seems
@@anneblackwood9013unfortunately that sort of stuff is common in the real world when dealing with harsh amd traumatic experience. People are contradictory amd they never truly see this. All people are. No matter how much you might think otherwise of yourself.
@@insertianameia2224 I know... But ideally you do enough work on yourself before getting married and/or having kids that you don't say stuff *that* cruel. Maybe I'm being idealistic... I hope not...
Yeah, he was brutally cruel. That's gonna be trauma for life for Lo'ak. He can't redeem himself after 5 minutes of that.
Maybe he'll do better in the next movie
After losing my own brother to a freak accident, I totally understand Neytiri going full berserk on anyone she felt was responsible for, not only her son’s death, but also the life threatening situations they put her family in
I'm so sorry you had to go through that 🫂
I LOVE the scene when Neytiri goes ape shit. It's almost cathartic to watch because as women we're often conditioned to stay calm and collected no matter what even if we're screaming on the inside. Don't scream or you will be labelled as crazy and hysteric, don't retaliate or you might get hurt. It's refreshing to see Neytiri just let everything out
This. I love neytiri, she is one of my favourite characters in media. A woman never taught to cover her emotion, who openly screams and weeps at grief and who lets rage power her revenge. Strong and feminine, dangerous and maternal, she is feminine love and feminine anger without shame in either.
My only wish during the “This family is our fortress” scene is that Jake says “Strong Heart” as comforting words while they hug. It would establish a great call back for when their family starts to fall fall apart and they literally lose their son later in the movie.
The "Strong Heart" is actually a callback to the first movie. When Jake asks Neytiri why she saved him from the viperwolves, she tells him he has "a strong heart, no fear."
I would love to see an analysis of Neytiri because she has lost so much movie after movie, and not enough people talk about what she's going through. They always focus on Jake and the kids. I think a psychological analysis on her handling the trauma a war and many family losses would really help people going through those same times find hope across the world right now ❤. Obviously donating and helping fight against forces helps the most, I just meant sometimes people want something to watch to help them relax in spite of the times.
What I think is very interesting, Spider is almost all the time with the sullys but is not considered their adoptive child, but you can still see jake caring about him.
He's not considered cause the mom of the family does not accept them as their kind. Otherwise he'd be!
"We learn, we evolve, we grow and we often do things better AS LONG AS THE THINGS ARE FINE. When things get tough, we backslide into our past behaviors..."
Just how precise this is... ❤
I'm not sure how much of it is character writing versus actor performance but the way Zoe Saldaña screams in her grief, first as a child losing her home and family and later as a mother losing her firstborn, is genuinely haunting. It's stuck with me ever since the first movie came out and gives me chills every time.
You know… y’all are the type of channel that can get me choking on snot AND coffee because I’m #cryingwithalan , take a sip, start to laugh, and it all goes downhill from there. Thank you. Genuinely. This is why we need dark grey hoodies. Or, 18% grey… hide all the stains as well as a good metering tool. ❤
Thanks for watching and crying with us! :)
the way of water in my mind is a freaking masterpiece
@@LordComradeAnarchoCapitalusDefinitely less dragons in the Godfather, so I concur.
While I don't love it to the same level you do, I also really love this movie. :)
Yup!!!
I was not expecting this. Such fun movies. No matter what, I feel like everyone falls in love with the world of Pandora
Its just so beautiful that you kinda just do.
@CommandaInChief I've told my mother several times that, if I suddenly won millions of dollars and bought a new house with some of this, one of the first things I'd do is have our backyard pool area turned into a scaled-down version of Pandora. The fake plants would have fiber-optic enhancements, which would be on a timer and mimic the bioluminescence, as the sun was going down. (9/19/2023)
My dad has said on the paradox of parenthood: "We want our children to become strong and independent adults while doing everything we say."
Can we get a video on Spider? He's such an interesting character and I love his dynamic with the Sully family
2nding this!
And Kiri! I understand why they focused on the father and his sons, but Kiri and Spider are my favorite characters, so I was really disappointed that they were almost completely ignored.
I especially wanna see the duo's interpretation of Spider's relationship with Quaritch.
Had to see this in theaters twice. Ending made me cry both times. Love it
me too
Same, except my second viewing I cried at the beginning when Neytiri starts singing the song.
I did too...
@@arupmistry1378 Yeahh when I rewatched it that song hit even harder for me too. I even committed to learning how to sing it, and it's such an enchanting experience.
@@anneblackwood9013 OMG REALLY? Even ive been trying to learn that sing little by little. But sometimes i have to pause cause it legit breaks my heart. Like i dont cry anymore since ive sene the movie so many times, but it still makes me sad
Vin Diesel should be jealous how James Cameron handled the f-word
😂 without the context behind this is crazy lol
He sure fucked them up
@@Mr.Starpop I have no context and I'm very confused XD
lmao
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I feel like another movie that could do with some family therapy is Wolfwalkers, specifically Robyn and Bill (Robyn's dad). I love how it's so clear that they love eachother, but they're not particularly great at communicating, which leads to one of the main conflicts in the movie. Tbh the entire movie is just amazing, in so many different ways :D
Yes!!
OMG YES, SO MUCH
YES TOTALLY ❤
It's such a cool thing that CG and motion capture has expanded the range of characters an actor can play. No amount of makeup or practical effects would ever make it possible for a woman in her 70's to play a teenager. But here, you don't question it for a second, so she's able to do something that would have not been possible otherwise ❤
I would love to see you guys do Caesar from the recent Planet of the Apes trilogy. Andy Serkis did a masterful job with the character, and I think there would be a lot to say about him.
My opa, German for grandpa, was dying when this movie was coming out. Cancer and dementia at once. I remember looking so forward to seeing the first in theaters and this one not just because of my immense love for avatar, but also because I needed something nice.
I remember being in the car home from the theater. I remember dad, who had gone to opa to make sure he was okay, calling us. I remember my mom pulling the car over and saying she knew what the call was. My dad said that opa had died just after the time taps normally ended. My opa was a veteran. I didn’t find myself wailing or sobbing or anything. I found myself upset, but also a little calm. I think having this movie directly before the news helped me a little. I’d just watched a very touching fictional death, which made me cope with my opa passing soon, and then I was given the news a real death had happened very gently. And I was ready. Later my mom told me my dad had texted her exactly when opa died. He’d died when we were watching the scene of the son being ‘buried’. Something about knowing that makes it even more touching for me. I don’t believe in a god but it felt like the universe knew and aligned just right so I’d be okay.
That is... Such an amazing story. When did your opa serve?
Not having seen the movie, I wonder if it's also a bit of overcompensation on Jake's part for not being Pandora-born? Yes, he's the chief now, but he's a Navi by science, not by birth, so he has to lock even more into the traditions. And on top of it, the only reason he got onto the Pandora project was because his brother Tom passed - you can't tell me that doesn't weigh on him.
Oh, absolutely. Despite having lived as a Na'vi for 15 years, he's still got the humanity that's been ingrained into him for over half of his life. Especially his time in the military, which came rushing back in the early scene when he saw the RDA had returned. The comics show how he'd always had that concern, but in that moment he knew it was go time
I also just wanna say that this movie was very interesting in its depiction of emigration. Jake has started fresh in a completely new environment many times before, so he rolls with punches and is comfortable making mistakes as he learns - but he is an adult with a lot of other life experiences making it harder for him to learn as quickly as his children. Meanwhile, the rest of his family has never uprooted their lives before and there are harder growing pains and more discomfort for them - but all the kids learn so, so quickly and could pass to their parents what they learned. I know so many people who immigrated to the US with their parents and they learned english quickly but their parents struggled and they were left to teach their parents english or bounce between languages and cultures inside vs outside the home.
Crying along with Alan and LOVING his emotional response to Jake finally seeing his son. So beautiful.
I love that Alan seems to have my problem that whenever a big beautiful thing happens, my brain is wired so that I cry with Big Emotion. It doesn't cry with sadness. It's like that meme of "Why do I blow on ice cream?" "My brain is like, 'very temperature, don't worrry, learned from soup.'" We got that brain "Why do I cry at happy gorgeous things?" "Big Emotion! Don't worry! Learned from sad."
For me, his main problem with the kids is that he keeps telling them to be strong without teaching them how, that's why they keep getting into bad situations or resolving stuff with violence.
For all the military training he has he didn't teach his kids any hand to hand combat apparently, otherwise they should've been able to deal with those kids without drawing any blood.
That and, he doesn't understand that strength is not equivalent to acting tough and fearless. True strength needs complex emotions.
I mean, loak just wanted to punish them for picking on his sister, not just subdue them or make them submit. The conflict had ended when loak turned back around. They were making fun of his hands and tail, so he used his weird hands to punch them in the face. Im 100% sure jake did tech them hand to hand combat, in fact you can see the way they fight is different than the other kids.
@@ElectricAlien577 Nah, those punches were completely amateurish.
Jake harshly yelling at the boys at the beginning for joining the fight and disobeying orders causing Netayim to nearly getting blown up is completely understandable and relatable. I think it comes entirely from a place of fear of losing his sons, which he nearly did. Him tearing up when talking to Netiri about it later shows how terrified he actually was in that moment and his actions were him coping and trying to make sure it didn’t happen again. They could have lost a son that day and thankfully didn’t, but if it happened again they might now be so lucky and actually lose them.
I think Neytiri would have been just as harsh --- she's willing that her whole tribe should die fighting, after all.
I've lost my Dad who called me "babygirl". Seeing Jake wanting to comfort Kiri and call her "babygirl" had me openly weeping in the cinema. Ugly crying.
As far as family therapy goes, it would be so lovely if you guys did What We Did On Our Holiday. I couldn't tell you what it is about this movie I adore so much but it absolutely guts me every time in just... the strangest of ways. I don't really know anyone who's seen it, but I truly do love it.
When I saw this in the theater, I had no idea it was Sigourney Weaver playing that role. I didn't know until the end credits. I am beyond blown away by her masterful performance.
She deserved to win an Oscar but wasn't even nominated...
@@charoleawood they'll never nominate a mo-cap performance. She deserved a nom, as did Andy Serkis for Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and LOTR: The Two Towers.
1] It's only shown at the beginning, but Jake also teaches us how important it is to make time for "date night", whatever big or small factors those entail.
2] It's interesting to me, how we can compare Jake's relationship with his two sons to that of Spider and his Avatar-Dad. "Where are the similarities and differences", would've been an intriguing topic to discuss. (9/19/2023)
Another connection that the dialogue brings from the 1st movie, is when Jake calls for Neitiri to have a strong heart so they can rescue Kiri and Tuk. What he's referencing is how Neitiri spared him in the first movie, she says she didn't let the animals at night kill him because she saw in him a "strong heart" with "no fear". I just thought it was a neat connection from the writing team to put in. But also, it would be a more intimate and direct way for Jake and Neitiri to understand each other without putting everything out in the open in front of Loak, Tsireya and Spider. It functions as their parenting/adult code, that they'll understand, which works for how Neitiri immediately reacts, in being stone cold and ready to kill. Love the episode!
I left the theater all three times just an emotional sobbing mess because I saw myself in so many ways & characters through each of the relationships shown, but especially father-child because I’m from a military family so I completely understood how it felt to be a child in that dynamic. But what really got to me was recognizing that everything Jake does in his interactions with the boys in particular was rooted in fear: Fear of losing the ones most precious to you due to situations out of your control. I remember texting all my friends how I came to have a good time and instead got a 3hr therapy session😂😂 and yes, I was definitely #cryingwithalan
I usually avoid watching movies in 3D and VR since I get motion sickness, which sucks as a VFX student who wants to know about all that. But I had the opportunity to see this on the World's Tallest IMAX, and I thought, if there's any movie that would be worth it to see there, it would be this one. It was a truly fantastic experience that I will always remember. This movie was so expertly designed in regards to 3D that I only left with a slight headache. It was so beautiful and immersive in a way that small screens don't do it justice.😍
If you have a CRT and a blu ray player hooked up to it (PS3 natively supports composite video) then I recommend watching Way of Water that way, I was shocked how great it looked! So, obviously a small screen isn't going to do it justice, but CRTs are just such a treat in themselves it makes up the difference.
One thing you might notice when watching this absolute masterpiece of a film is how Cameron uses depth. It's a 3 hour film. It seems like almost every scene is layered. So many layers. Characters, trinkets, plants, animals... layer upon layer to create depth... it's absolutely amazing to look at. The effects themselves are out of this world, but with an enormous amount of work that must have gone into filming and planned as acquired, I simply have no idea how this film is humanly possible. Once you start to notice the depth, it's impossible not to notice it. It's everywhere. And it's absolutely fantastic.
There is a combination of factors that made the first Avatar as impactful as it was. It wasn't just the fact that it was in 3D, but that it was being drawn visually in 3D. Many cores, many layers, many particles floating on the screen in different scenes, fantasy animals, all in a natural setting with lots of green and blue. It should be noted that several other films made later with the same 3D technology did not have the same impact. It is not enough to have technical capacity. You have to know how to exploit it.
Besides all that, the script was very good, obviously.
It's hard to imagine that in the next sequels we will be impacted in the same way. Many people will say that “the first one was better”, “it wasn’t so good”, “it’s more of the same” and so on.
Important considerations:
1 - The greatest criticism* of imperialism ever made in the history of cinema.
2 - How sad it is that we have lost our connection with nature.
3 - How absurd is computer graphics and how crazy is it to imagine that in a thousand years (if we don't blow ourselves up in a war) we will be able to easily simulate a virtual reality indistinguishable from reality, which leads us to the hypothesis that we already live in a simulation of another civilization.
4 - Yes, there are things left open, but you can let it go due to its grandeur.
5 - FAMILY is everything.
6 - Thank you James Cameron.
I forgot to comment: Save the whales, the whale is the only animal that gives names to family and friends through their children. (Yes, whales make friends, as they also go through grief when they lose a family member or friend). This comparison was formidable.
*I said the BIGGEST, not the BEST. This was the biggest criticism, as it reached the largest audience. Avatar managed to bring criticism of imperialism to a large number of people. There is no other film that was a critique of imperialism and that managed to reach this magnitude of people, which is why it is the greatest.
Co
It's very rare that I disagree with Jonathan's insight, but when watching this movie, I was disgusted by how Jake constantly undermines Neytiri. I see very little compassion from him for her. I'm really hopeful that we'll see this conflict resolved in the next movie, but knowing what I do about James Cameron, I'm skeptical.
I think he was better with her than with his sons, but he still wasn't great.
What are you referencing with James Cameron? I haven't heard much about him as a person.
Aside from maybe her initial objection to moving away from the forest, when does jake undermine naytiri? I dont recall jake ever directly undermining her decisions.
I will admit that I only saw the movie once, but will watch it again. The main times I remember Jake undermining Neytiri was leaving their home, pushing his medical providers (until she forcibly threw them out), making comments about their children, and not letting her grieve her dead son. Also, my comment about James Cameron was also based on some old interviews I remembered with his ex wives. I looked into a few articles to get examples, but times have changed and he keeps writing strong female characters... so maybe he just really does just love strong women but isn't able to stay in relationships with them 😆
@Masque1262
I wouldn't necessarily describe those things as undermining her. In regards to leaving their home, that wasn't as much undermining her as it was just arguing with her, and both of them expressing their feelings on the subject. Jake wanted to leave, she wanted to stay. She eventually agreed to leave of her own free will.
Naytiris initial objection to the medical help from his friends wasn't shown in the movie, though I could imagine she would object to bringing them there, and it may very well be that Jake ignored her objections and called them anyway, but we can't know for sure that she protested them coming in the first place. We do know that she made them leave after they had started working, and Jake didn't stop her.
I'm not sure which comments about their children you're referring too.
It's not that Jake didn't let her grieve her son, it's that their daughters were in immediate danger. They are being held hostage with guns to their heads. There wasn't time to grieve yet. They had to go save their daughters. Right now. They had plenty of time to grieve at the funeral after the battle was over. The final scene in the movie is them connecting to the spirit tree and seeing their son.
I don't think Jake was a perfect character in the movie or anything, and he had some work to do as a father, showing clear favoritism toward netayam, but I think his flaws are part of his arc in the story, and his journey to becoming a better husband and father. In the end he finally sees his loak for who he is, and not just an irresponsible troublemaker in comparison to netayam. And that he can't just run anymore, and perhaps naytiri was right in wanting to stay. I'm thinking the next movie will explore these relationships a bit farther.
The water actually is real in the way of water! Originally Cameron planned to use the traditional method, hated how it looked, and then created a brand new system. 😭
But the images of water we see are all mostly computer generated. Though, yes, performance capture was done in water.
When the movie first released I saw a lot of people say that Jake can see himself in Lo’ak, which is why he is harsher on him since he was Lo’ak, and sees his brother in Neteyam
In the books, its said by the other Forest Leaders Neteyam also is very much like his mother in the way he presents himself. Idk if its just me but I feel he reminds me of Tsu’tey
Most if not all of the water scenes were done in water so it's no surprise that their motions in water look real but stuff like lighting and reflection and small details is just amazing
Just wow 💙🩵
This episode hit way harder, because brings me back into how my childhood and teenagehood went, and I once again realize that despite my family not being bluntly toxic or bad, still, the parenting was wrong on so many levels, and it is what probably shaped me and caused all the psychological problems i now have and cant get over. Sometimes, I would think that because of this, I will definitely never get a family of my own. But sometimes, seeing videos like this, I actually think otherwise because i now at least know how a healthy family is supposed to be.
I absolutely adore this franchise, it holds my heart. Watching Allan in awe and giving film commentary while Jonno analyses my favourite fantasy family made my day.
Oel ngati kameie 💙
I literally just finished the movie so this is perfect timing
Awesome!
I love these movies so much, and I love how the sequel has a way more personal lens. It's also nice that Jake is not perfect. Every character in this movie has flaws, and that makes them relatable.
It'll be interesting analysis of Spider, that kid and his relationship with Sullys and the blue clone of the villain is so interesting, I'll like to see this chapter 😊
Soldier here to cry with Alan.
Edit: it would be awesome to see an episode focusing on Neitiry and Kiri ❤ such beautiful and fierce characters
Yesss Kiri is my favorite character 🥺 and Neytiri is awesome
The Ace Ventura cut away at 18:31... chef's kiss perfect!
"Heinz Getwellvet!"
My dad was a lot like Sully as a dad, both Marines and both injured and discharged because of it. I never felt like my dad ever really had pride for me, until I graduated Marine boot camp and I saw that pride and love in his eyes. The older I get and the more I get to know him, the more I realize I'm as much like him as I could get without being his twin. Down to the temper, defiance to authority, and putting family first. It's been about 7 years now and we've both helped each other grow by talking man to man and become each others therapist to a point. Sullys relationship with his son, is authentic as you can get, including his older brother which mirrors my own older brother who went Army and follows orders to the T. I used to think he was the favorite but just like yall said, it's crazy what happens when you saw us both leave the house and find our true norths. This episode honestly made me cry because I remembered that memory, so today, I'm #cryingwithAlan 😅😂
Kinda disappointed there was no mention of the scene where Jake-a character who's entire motive is to protect his family-disregards their safety at the end and almost gets them all killed. If Jake wanted to PROTECT his family, he would have led them off the burning, sinking ship. Instead, Jake launches a fist fight with Quaritch because even though he believes he is motivated to protect his family, the reality is he is motivated by the insecurity that he will never be a good enough protector. Quaritch’s threats poke at Jakes insecurities, so he makes the reactionary choice to attack Quaritch-who is effectively a dead man on a sinking ship making baseless threats-which initiates a completely unnecessary series of events that almost kills them all. And the film itself doesn’t really address this, no one is upset with Jake for almost killing them all, which makes me think the film doesn’t even recognize Jake’s choice as being impulsive and misguided. It’s just sort of unanalyzed because everyone manages to make it out alive.
The moment Jake chooses to stand and fight against Quaritch was a turning point for him; all this time he has been running and hiding to protect his family, but in that moment Quaritch's threats dug into how guilty he felt with all the destruction and loss that had happened as a result of him running in the first place; his son dying, the reef navi being attacked, the Tulkun being hunted and killed, their kids being kidnapped repeatedly as bait to draw them out. And theres no way of knowing for sure that Quartich's threats were baseless; he has an ikran afterall, he could've just flown away after Jake left with his family to go and do exactly what he said he would, regroup and come back to kill them all. Jake realised that if he ran again Quaritch would just keep coming, and he knows him all too well to dismiss that and assume he would just die (he's been dead before afterall!), so he stands and fights (his final words in the movie spell this out planely). I thought it was an appropriately rousing moment and a great way to kick off the finale, and brought Jake's arc full circle of finally embracing the warrior spirit of his wife Neytiri, whom he argues with throughout the movie on this very thing.
And then in the end, even though as far as he knows he's killed Quaritch (we know otherwise of course...), he still ends the movie determined to make a stand and fight the sky people at large, as he now knows that they and Pandora will never be at peace as long as they're around. Death is a huge price to pay in war, but I think the resolution the movie comes to is that fighting and risking one's life for a just cause is worth it; Payakan does this when he risks many lives to seek revenge against the sky people, getting himself outcast and his fellow warriors killed, and then even after that he does it again when Loak is in danger. Passifism is seen as a means to minimise death and conflict (as seen with Jake and the Tulkun), but then alternately killing and fighting are shown to be necessary when fighting oppression. I think the film does a decent job of showing the two sides of dealing with violence and what drives us to respond in the ways we do; Jake cuts and runs at the start but in the end goes to fight, and in both scenarios it's to protect his family.
the little bit we saw at the beginning of the movie of their start of their family and right before the humans come back coupled with the after life scene of young neteyam with his dad gave us a look into the kind of father he was and he probably would've remained to be had the invasion not happened again, I think its also very telling that the memory of neteyam in the spirit tree is one of a time before the whole war plus reimagining teenage neteyam in that memory
Please keep revisiting this film from different angles. There is a wealth of relationships and experiences to explore for all of these characters.
I loved this movie even more than the first, the way this movie made us fall in love with the Sully family is just incredible.
I would've loved to see what you thought about Spider's relation to the Sullys - particularly how Jake referred to him as a 'stray cat' at the start of the movie, and as a son at the end. Also anything about Spider and Quaritch - how Quaritch was trying to make a connection at the start but not admitting to it, making that connection after the iknimaya and then severing it when he shows Spider the monster everyone's told him his father was at the Ta'unui village, and particularly those last two scenes - when Quaritch gives up Kiri to save him, and when Spider saves him in turn but still rejects him for the Sullys. I really did love your take on this movie though, it's been living rent free in my mind since I saw it in the cinema.
Y’all teach us so much but make us laugh along side the teaching. Thank you Jonathan and Alan!
Thanks for watching! :)
I LOVE that you said "I need to swallow my PRIDE". Im an Adult and i still get the "Why are you so combative/defiant" response from my mom who is more focused on her own Pride than resolution. Im suffering from Toxic treatment because of Pride lol you guys are my therapy 😂
I feel like it makes perfect sense that Jake accepts influence from his wife but not his kids at first. Up until this movie in his life there hasn't been a problem he COULDN'T fix by relying on his assertive, military background and always-prepared-for-the-unknown-ness. It's what was his defining difference in the first movie that allowed him to succeed where others had failed to learn na'vi ways. And the first type of relationship he ever had with his wife was that of her being his teacher. He HAD to accept her influence to survive - and he's fully aware of her ferocity and skill. For a character like him, I'd imagine he looks at his kids and just sees them as the delicate tiny babies they once were, growing up in a world at war. Even if they just were to get injured badly, he was once disabled himself and felt how big and scary the world became when he didn't have His Strength. If I'd lived his life I'd probably react the same.
I think that these catch WAY too much flack for how good they actually are, and it's nice to see people point it out. I'd be curious to know what SPECIFICALLY though that is being labeled as bad dialogue as I never felt the same way.
I loved in particular when you pointed out that Jake was taking cues from Neytiri to listen about how he was being too hard on their sons. Likewise at one point, Neytiri was the one who had to listen amd DID listen when Jake said they needed to leave and she refused, but he reminded her that Quaritch LITERALLY had their children under his knife. You could see that was her wakeup call where she listened. They have a healthy relationship of LISTENING to each other and it isn't one-sided.
I really hope they show what the consequences might be of Neytiri going feral at the end and almost choosing to kill Spider. She has never liked him, but HE valued the Sully's. What's going to happen there?
A lot of people gripe that the Na'vi are portrayed too perfect and Humans too evil (which isn't fair for an unfinished story), but supposedly movie 3 will flip that script.
I love the movies either way and can't wait to see more Pandora.
There are good and bad elements to the movies. While there is technological genius and production, the story-writing, dialogue, and pacing are all things people may find fault in. I wouldn't be one to say the movies suck, but considering these things I would consider them decent movies. Sadly I don't believe Avatar will have the same legacy for its technological work as LOTR. While both produced breathtakingly beautiful films, I don't see how Avatar movies will revolutionize the technology of its industry. Its simply too unaffordable for most movie projects to afford.
I honestly barely followed the plot, I was so enthralled with the cinematography and world itself. It’s such a beautiful movie 😭
You guys should evaluate Quaritch as a father. Obviously it’s bad, but comparing it to Jake as a parent and also how his distant relationship with spider may have changed him. Also, how tf did Allen learn Na’vi.
Being a military parent, I absolutely understand Jake. I like orders and rules. Also I try to balance that with listening to my kids. It can lead to a lot of frustration when my kids being kids are disobedient or whiny about following rules and the jobs they have around the house. At the end of the. Day I love my kids and each day they reach me something new.
Your ability to self-reflect is admirable. It's so important to take guidance and learn gentleness with kids.
What can be most difficult is that around children adults feel drained and without choice in life because they as adults have to be more responsible when they'd rather be doing anything else.
And so many adults, not just military parents, come to caretaking with aggressiveness and fear, with the desire that their authority and their egos be recognized.
There is also so much boredom in military existence --- boredom and danger, so much autonomy already given over to superiors and the system itself, the sense that said autonomy has been robbed.
This tension is bottled up when at work and then released with toxicity when at home.
The thing is he had a very long time to parent in a relaxed environment ( Pandora relaxed ) then being thrown back into a war makes him need to take a different attitude again, back to his marine mind
Edit : in the first film he briefly mentions that you never stop being a marine , that you can leave but keep the mindset . Think that bushes the behaviour to a further understanding of his parenting style . Also should do a video on the first film , specifically towards Jake losing himself within the world
One thing I love about these movies is Jake’s development from a one track mind into a multi-dimensional character. I love how he doesn’t completely abandon his past as a marine but uses that to help defend his people and family.
I think he's always been a multidimensional character.
I loved this movie. Next time it would be cool for you to focus on one of the other kids or on Spider or on the mom and her parenting style.
Yes I really want them to talk about Kiri and Spider!
21:17 This "Strong Heart" here was... breathtaking. I cried the whole scene long....
Y'all should do Free Willy as well. I think Annie and Glen are pretty good foster parents, and I'd love to see yall explore their relationship with Jesse and his abandonment issues. It's a really great movie. The sequel would be interesting to explore too. Please please please do a video on them!
I never talk about this movie but today a classmate and I talked about it and all of a sudden this gets uploaded today. I've REALLY been wanting your opinions on this because I hated how Jake treated his sons like soldiers and put the responsibility of his children behaving on Neteyam, instead of teaching all their children responsibility individually. Also loved Alan's takes on the bts of this movie and the little Na'vi surprise at the end. The first avatar has been one of my favourite movies of all times since it came out because I loved the world building so much. Always love hearing about the process. Great video!
My father was a lot like Jake sully and we fought a lot when I was younger because i was so much like him but I was grateful that we mended our relationship before he passed. Seeing y’all bring that into light and awareness via this movie is very healing for me.
As a former BRAT and Vet., I have to say that Sully is, in the middle part of the movie, much like a lot of soldier parents. After a long time, decades, I understand my father behaved as he did, not because he didn't care, but because he did and had no idea how to show it outside of trying to control situations in an attempt to protect us.
And. In a situation like they were facing it could be dangerous for Sully to put his training and reactions down. Soldiers, Firefighters, and Police need their training and edge to survive the jobs they have to do. And when immenent danger is involved, emotion can be a real liability.
I think the aggression comes as much from putting up with military bureaucracy as it does from the dangers of the vocation.
I have been waiting for this. I saw Way of Water with my mom in 3D. We both have complex PTSD and other mental issues. It WRECKED us. I had a full meltdown panic attack as soon as we got home. Very emotional movie.
Absolutely love your show, have watched since the beginning and seeing this grow and evolve over time has been so fun. Also Thank you for the editing jokes, keep em coming!! ahha big love & gratitude to the whole crew behind this show and thank you for sharing the tears each time!
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
Please, please, please do an Video on Neytiri, she is like the major catalyst of grief, I would love to see you break down those aspects.
5:27 omfg this nearly made me snort my coffee hahaha
When I watched this movie in cinemas, a few weeks before I had lost my kid that I was pregnant with. So, when I saw Neytiri's motherly grief, I felt that to my core.
I'm so sorry for your loss
Dang, I really would’ve liked to see you guys react to Neytiri raging on the ship, just the way they portrayed her and the effects of the lighting was just 🤌🏽 it really tapped into her animalistic primal side
Cinema therapy is legitimately the thing I'm most excited for at FanX
Oh Hell yes.