I tired as a mechanic working the snow trains after having been an engineer for 35 years. The snow removing years were very boring and fricking cold while maintaining or repairing these old beast. The rotor is like a huge flywheel designed to run an average 2,000 rpm max about 3,200 or less. Any faster you run the risk of bending the rotor shafts in heavy dense snow other wise you can maintain a more constant speed in light snow but snow drifts are compacted this is why you can walk on it.Cheers
I think you are exaggerating a lot. Do you realize how fast 3200 rpm s is? N ok way on earth big flywheel spins that fast. You might want to research that
Just a guess here, but the cutter head and rotor/thrower are turning at different speeds. The rotor might be what the OP is talking about spinning 2000rpm.
The plow is driven electrically from the B Covered Wagon. The Plow has steam to de-ice the blade, windows, et al. The entire unit is pushed by 2 GP 60's.
This is so COOL! I LOVE trains and NEVER knew that a train has a snowblower. The sound, the snow shooting in the air, the whole thing is cool, thanks for posting!!
What an incredible amount of snow! It seems to be rather fluffy and not frozen and hard as I have seen other machines struggling to move only a few feet.
I grew up in Colorado and it's still tough to wrap my head around the notion that this machine exists because they get that much snow repeatedly. Every winter.
they need some big snow fences to pile up all those drifts somewhere else. I remember in VA they took down some snow fence and ended up with a 20' drift on the road. it was amazing1
Thanks very much Chad Carlson for taking the time and energy to log this great video of the BNSF Rotary Snow Plow operators. It's fascinating watching what these men do in adverse conditions. Mike
@@dirtfarmer7472 Honestly i believe it would feel amazing getting all that snow blown onto you. Btw I have no memory of posting this three years ago, but time flies by, i got nostalgic
Was it because the cuts we're between two shelterbelt so it would be soft fluffy snow filling up the cuts instead of hard crusted over and with the wind in that area and the fields bear the snow ended up in the cuts between the shelterbelts.
Interesting snow blower, bigger than my 8hp one at home. Love the action. I also noticed the fields have no snow on them yet there is 6to 10 on the tracks.
the engine is an old F7B unit with an old 567 or 645 in it from EMD. It pulsate's as you have to keep the blade at a certain speed, when it slows down, you throttle up, when it gets to the speed, you throttle down.
This is one of the best scenes I've ever seen of a rotary plow in action. It's amazing how badly the snow drifts there. I wish I could've been there and seen that for my self. Also, thanks for using the high quality setting on your camera! Great video!
I think this was shot after a Christmas Holiday, and a period of snow and 40 mph winds. The wind drifting builds walls and mounds. It can happen in a day. The snow can compact and form ice that needs to be cut through. The operation of the plow involves the direction of the rotatory, the speed of the rotary, and the forward speed. When you hear him letting off its probably the throttle as you cannot rush this. Too fast and you can derail the rotatory. Slow an careful is best.
+consanna true. I was truck driving in Europe in the mid 90's when I got caught in a serious snow storm with driving winds. ( central france, coming back from Italy.) it came on very suddenly. I was on a driving break of 45minutes. lovely when it started. then the driving winds came and that's a game changer. it created utter chaos. wind driven snow can cover houses in minutes. very scary.
the "Power Units" are basically mechanically and internally Identical to the B-units they were converted from except for the fact that they no longer have Traction motors to drive the wheels and thus the B-unit can no longer move itself. The B-unit also has heavy duty cables to provide power to the plow it is attatched to. The plow is electically driven from the power unit, the plow geared to locomotive traction motors.
Awesome video I wish I could have been there to see but thanks to you I was and didn't have to freeze. The engines that was pushing that beast sounded so cool I loved this video. Thanks again for your sharing!!
This plow keeps moving forward at a steady Pace whereas when they close the Carlyle Branch from Beach North Dakota to Carlyle Montana, the engineer had the back up and take a run at it and go forward because the snow was as high as the top of the light on the plow. Rest of the story is with the commenter below!
I believe this video has been around awhile. I really like it. THANKS for putting time and location on it. I too would be interested to know why the blowers' engine surges, and the answer to some other questions people wrote in.
Not any worse than the blizzard of 77-78, or the one of 78-79. I-70 was closed from Oakley to Limon during the snow of 77-78; and then, in the 78-79 snow, I-70 was closed from Wakeeny to Limon. The UP, which runs through Wakeeny, to Limon, had 2 plows get stuck, during both winters. Took six diesels, and four front end loaders to dig those plows out, so the UP brought down their rotary plow to do the job. Only it got stuck just west of Sharon Springs.
You should see the snow plume, when they plow the line between Essex Montana and Kalispell. Between the snow sheds, once in a while there will be an avalanche that happens at the end of the snow sheds, if there are Bighorn Sheep trapped inside it's a beautiful red snowy plume that shoots out of there every once in awhile between snow sheds and then a big one at the end!
+Cristi Neagu Go watch "The battle for donner pass" there are some really good prime mover sounds in there, up in the pass plus some in the concrete sheds.
I didn't realize the BN has rotery's? I worked 5 and 6 over the Sierra's a couple years and got to see the U.P. rotery's which was neat. I like the sort of tiger purr the rotery motor makes.
Just having completed engineering (Choo-choo U.) school for Conrail (Wilmington, DE) in 1981, I was offered a permanent position at the BNSF in Colorado. My wife didn't want to leave Pennsylvania, so I declined the offer. Sometimes, I wonder, "What if"?
I don't know about Aurora, but Lincoln, NE had a all-time record for snow in December and on Christmas day. We had more snow here, but not as much wind I guess. My daughter spend the night in Aurora because the interstate east to Lincoln was closed over night.
I think there needs to be a redesign on the outlet chute, its blowing the snow too high into the air, and the wind is blowing the snow back onto the rails again
JurisArcane, The engines do this because the snow causes wheelslip and the 3 locomotives may need to back up and push again and again on freezing days when the rails have ice on them under the snow. They carry sand to put in front of the wheels but in conditions like this they can't carry enough so they do the best they can pushing and backing.
How about if they fell in to a void over the track. Stuck, no one could hear them over the noise of the blower. Not such a good idea to be in front of the blower. Think about safety. Kids, don't try this in your home.
@nkproad777 The snowplow is not diesel, it is electric. The B-Unit is not a B-unit locomotive anymore but basically a "mobile generator" to provide electricity to to the Rotary snowplow. SP called thier plow power units "Snails" because unlike "slugs" they still had thier "shells."
If you think that tightens your gut. When the Section Crew was ordered to knock a 2-foot overhang off in front of the plow with shovels. And one shovel accidentally-on-purpose happened to fall in front of the plow when the Engineer had backed up and was headed forward to hit It again and the shovel came out in 3 pieces the Roadmaster said, "I don't think we'll do that anymore". You think!
Jared H, There is improved snow plowing equipment today. It's a jet engine tilted down toward the rails and works well except it can burn the wooden ties. The entire US is supposed to have all ties replaced with concrete, but that will take awhile.
@shoppy168046 The video contradicts this. The unit moves forward ... and as the load increases on the blower portion the engine struggles against it. The pause indicates that the engine noise and diesel smoke are actually related to the blower section ... not the traction drive.
Wow, that was awesome! Not only the machine, but the amount of snow. You would think they would keep a steady amount of force on the blower instead of stalling it out and letting it catch up and repeating.
I can just see all the miles and miles of freight trains piled up behind the snow blower eagerly waiting to be speedily on their way down this congested stretch of railway.
yeah you can, ice on rails, spinning. That's why locomotives have sand on board. The reason it's at intervals is so you don't go full throttle, and to keep it at a set speed.
This is an awesome video! My kids and I were just looking at this bad boy sitting in the Hobson Yard. They will LOVE seeing the video of it in action. Thanks for posting!
It’s actually a two-cycle diesel-electric unit, likely a repurposed prime mover engine made by General Motors’ Electro-Motive Division (EMD) from the 1930’s or 1940’s. Most rotary plows use these old EMD 2-cycle engines as that was what was available when the last of these types of rotary plows were built, or being converted from piston-steam engines to diesel-electric units. They do sound like big gasoline engines though, don’t they?
Imagine what a pain it would be to do that by yourself with a shovel? Man, that snow blower... I can't believe what it's capable of. Pretty awesome power! It's also pretty cool to see one of the brand new ES44C4s on the job too. Great video!
That is a mountain of hard , compact snow. The roost that blower throws is amazing. Very awesome footage. Thanks!
That snow buster makes such a scenic display in the air, with a bright blue sky as it's canvas. Nature's beauty at it's finest.
I tired as a mechanic working the snow trains after having been an engineer for 35 years. The snow removing years were very boring and fricking cold while maintaining or repairing these old beast. The rotor is like a huge flywheel designed to run an average 2,000 rpm max about 3,200 or less. Any faster you run the risk of bending the rotor shafts in heavy dense snow other wise you can maintain a more constant speed in light snow but snow drifts are compacted this is why you can walk on it.Cheers
Damn 3000 rpm that realy fast
I think you are exaggerating a lot. Do you realize how fast 3200 rpm s is? N ok way on earth big flywheel spins that fast. You might want to research that
This video explains 90 revolutions on the fan blade. Maybe iij misunderstood your 3000 rpm comment.
th-cam.com/video/SuX4G3znpDE/w-d-xo.html
The old SP rotaries were never designed to run at that speed.
Just a guess here, but the cutter head and rotor/thrower are turning at different speeds. The rotor might be what the OP is talking about spinning 2000rpm.
The plow is driven electrically from the B Covered Wagon. The Plow has steam to de-ice the blade, windows, et al. The entire unit is pushed by 2 GP 60's.
"The entire unit is pushed by 2 GP 60's."
No it's not. It's an ES44AC (BNSF 6185) and a AC4400CW (CEFX 1019).
This is so COOL! I LOVE trains and NEVER knew that a train has a snowblower. The sound, the snow shooting in the air, the whole thing is cool, thanks for posting!!
These are obviously the best snow-fighting equipment the railroads have; they are rather impressive to watch too!
Former CBQ rotary snowplow! Nice! Hard to believe seeing how many of these well-maintained units still remain on BNSF's roster!
Lived by them tracks and was snowed in for 5 days during that blizzard. Watched that machine come thru town .. amazing
What an incredible amount of snow!
It seems to be rather fluffy and not frozen and hard as I have seen other machines struggling to move only a few feet.
Watching the direction they are blowing (trying anyway) the snow reminds me of the old adage about not pissing into the wind.
The snowplow actually does a beautiful job for heavy snow, no joke. Amazing stuff.
I grew up in Colorado and it's still tough to wrap my head around the notion that this machine exists because they get that much snow repeatedly. Every winter.
This is great! Thanks for all the effort you put into it. Glad to see we are not the only area that gets buried in the winter.
they need some big snow fences to pile up all those drifts somewhere else. I remember in VA they took down some snow fence and ended up with a 20' drift on the road. it was amazing1
Thanks very much Chad Carlson for taking the time and energy to log this great video of the BNSF Rotary Snow Plow operators. It's fascinating watching what these men do in adverse conditions.
Mike
Just felt an urge to reply to your 10 year old comment 😳
@@urosvlahovic9279
Just adding my 2 cents worth in 2024, & comment about the level of intelligence for the people who were standing down wind.
@@dirtfarmer7472 Honestly i believe it would feel amazing getting all that snow blown onto you. Btw I have no memory of posting this three years ago, but time flies by, i got nostalgic
Best toy EVER!
Thanks for sharing AND for explaining why the fields were clear of snow.
Was it because the cuts we're between two shelterbelt so it would be soft fluffy snow filling up the cuts instead of hard crusted over and with the wind in that area and the fields bear the snow ended up in the cuts between the shelterbelts.
Wow that is so awesome to see. Also the beautiful blue sky. A good day in Nebraska thanks
Now this is what i call an awsome recording. NICE
Interesting snow blower, bigger than my 8hp one at home. Love the action. I also noticed the fields have no snow on them yet there is 6to 10 on the tracks.
I wonder if they sell this snowblower attachment at Home Depot.
No, but they have it at Lowe's :)
No only at Train Depot!
@@deannelson9565 Literally AT a Train Depot!
Yeah I saw it for $49
the engine is an old F7B unit with an old 567 or 645 in it from EMD. It pulsate's as you have to keep the blade at a certain speed, when it slows down, you throttle up, when it gets to the speed, you throttle down.
THAT FOOTAGE IS AWESOME !!!!!!!
This is one of the best scenes I've ever seen of a rotary plow in action. It's amazing how badly the snow drifts there. I wish I could've been there and seen that for my self. Also, thanks for using the high quality setting on your camera! Great video!
I think this was shot after a Christmas Holiday, and a period of snow and 40 mph winds. The wind drifting builds walls and mounds. It can happen in a day. The snow can compact and form ice that needs to be cut through. The operation of the plow involves the direction of the rotatory, the speed of the rotary, and the forward speed. When you hear him letting off its probably the throttle as you cannot rush this. Too fast and you can derail the rotatory. Slow an careful is best.
+consanna true. I was truck driving in Europe in the mid 90's when I got caught in a serious snow storm with driving winds. ( central france, coming back from Italy.) it came on very suddenly. I was on a driving break of 45minutes. lovely when it started. then the driving winds came and that's a game changer. it created utter chaos. wind driven snow can cover houses in minutes. very scary.
the "Power Units" are basically mechanically and internally Identical to the B-units they were converted from except for the fact that they no longer have Traction motors to drive the wheels and thus the B-unit can no longer move itself. The B-unit also has heavy duty cables to provide power to the plow it is attatched to. The plow is electically driven from the power unit, the plow geared to locomotive traction motors.
Sounds intense. I always loved rotary snow plows. There is so much power. It is amazing how far the snow goes.
That is totally cool! Love the video!
Blessings to you and your family
that certainly is an impressive piece of kit. nice job, well done fella's.
Awesome video I wish I could have been there to see but thanks to you I was and didn't have to freeze. The engines that was pushing that beast sounded so cool I loved this video. Thanks again for your sharing!!
WOW! That is amazing to such high amounts of snow.. Really makes that rotary plow work!
This plow keeps moving forward at a steady Pace whereas when they close the Carlyle Branch from Beach North Dakota to Carlyle Montana, the engineer had the back up and take a run at it and go forward because the snow was as high as the top of the light on the plow. Rest of the story is with the commenter below!
I believe this video has been around awhile. I really like it. THANKS for putting time and location on it.
I too would be interested to know why the blowers' engine surges, and the answer to some other questions people wrote in.
looks like the kind of snow my dad would make me shovel in NH "to build character" when I was younger..
Guy H. in July!
G. H. With no shoes hehe
No shoes and a spoon and you had to eat it all
uphill, both ways!
Big character.
That’s one awesome piece of machinery! I would imagine that it uses a lot of fuel! Thanks so very much for sharing that with us! Great footage!
Wow! Really fast and efficient!
Not any worse than the blizzard of 77-78, or the one of 78-79. I-70 was closed from Oakley to Limon during the snow of 77-78; and then, in the 78-79 snow, I-70 was closed from Wakeeny to Limon. The UP, which runs through Wakeeny, to Limon, had 2 plows get stuck, during both winters. Took six diesels, and four front end loaders to dig those plows out, so the UP brought down their rotary plow to do the job. Only it got stuck just west of Sharon Springs.
VERY well done! Good video and beautiful snow plume shots.
You should see the snow plume, when they plow the line between Essex Montana and Kalispell. Between the snow sheds, once in a while there will be an avalanche that happens at the end of the snow sheds, if there are Bighorn Sheep trapped inside it's a beautiful red snowy plume that shoots out of there every once in awhile between snow sheds and then a big one at the end!
I love this 😍❤️👍🏽. This is just AWESOME AMAZING BEAUTIFUL ❤️
BMW 801 radial snow blower, that's awesome!!
Wait they used 801's in these?
@@ToreDL87 I'm pretty sure it was General Motors engines, and general electric generators and motors. Henceforth ergo electro-motive division of GM
@shoppy168046 then the power units sound really sick. the blower has control over how much power they need so it could be the old f7 motor reving
That engine sounded amazing on my sound system, shook my whole room and I could feel it in my chest. Bet that sounded great in person.
Greetings from the BIG SKY. That's a big snow drift you got there.
That is probably the best sounding engine i've ever heard.
+Cristi Neagu Go watch "The battle for donner pass" there are some really good prime mover sounds in there, up in the pass plus some in the concrete sheds.
Yeah, the EMD 567 is one of the most iconic diesel engines out there.
I just stopped in Aurora Ne for fuel. Summer is bliss, winter is fury. I won't be coming down i80 if trains have to plow.😦 Great train vid.
In this depth of snow 1mph is making good time.
...THE BEST rotary action camera angles , EVER...👍👍👍👍👍
That stuff is packed so hard, no wonder that have to go slowly, yikes
Thank you very much for posting this. Very good quality and content.
That is a beast of a machine.
yep
Sounds awsome
Wonkabar007, talk about old school...it sounds & looks like it took all winter
@@MrAIRSHOWFAN100 0000000000000
increase engine strength and it would be better
Now that's what I call winter railroading at its best. That video is something to remember with. Great video.
Glad TH-cam recommended this, anyone else?
That's deep snow out there very cold locomotives dig it out of the track awesome video friend bless you stay warm inside Nebraska
I live in Buffalo New York, I can use this in my driveway
I can totally relate. I was there when you got 7 1/2 feet
Jesse H yeh same, I live in England and we got about an inch last winter and it as so bad it was gone by lunchtime
I didn't realize the BN has rotery's? I worked 5 and 6 over the Sierra's a couple years and got to see the U.P. rotery's which was neat. I like the sort of tiger purr the rotery motor makes.
sounds a lot like my 85 Dodge pickup....so thats where it went that weekend, i was wonderin.... thatd also explain the slowness....
That is amazing!! Had to watch it twice and it still is friggen cool!!
Realmente muito lindo a beleza da neve. Bem difícil a remoção. E incrível o trabalho de limpeza e liberacao da via férrea. Amei o vídeo.
Great video. Wow that's a lot of snow! Thanks for sharing.
WOW! Impressive stuff, even though the train is hardly moving!
Just having completed engineering (Choo-choo U.) school for Conrail (Wilmington, DE) in 1981, I was offered a permanent position at the BNSF in Colorado. My wife didn't want to leave Pennsylvania, so I declined the offer. Sometimes, I wonder, "What if"?
"Hey...whats that noise?" - Snow burrowing squirrel nest
Superb! Worth watching for the sound alone. Magic.
When they are done there, they can come on over and do my driveway.
Two Beers lol
Notice the field to the right is bare/brown. In the midwest, the wind drifts every road cut full.
Athearn model trains makes a nice powered HO scale model of this snow plow & tender BN972559.
I don't know about Aurora, but Lincoln, NE had a all-time record for snow in December and on Christmas day. We had more snow here, but not as much wind I guess. My daughter spend the night in Aurora because the interstate east to Lincoln was closed over night.
Did they finish this before spring?
Very funny ass hole!
@swollenrhino… asshole is one word
Toms Chevelle Ass is one word, Hole is one word, Asshole is a compound word...lol.
That is super... Thank you for the spelling lesson!
Toms Chevelle Glad to help!😊
@9910steve its the direction the rotor goes.. these are not 2 stage snow blowers. :-)
Beautiful, great filming!
I can't help but wonder if 1-2 feet of snow ends up drifting back onto the tracks behind them from the plume.
I think there needs to be a redesign on the outlet chute, its blowing the snow too high into the air, and the wind is blowing the snow back onto the rails again
I am sure all that is adjustable. These guys just don't seem to know any better. Maybe they are new.?
JurisArcane,
The engines do this because the snow causes wheelslip and the 3 locomotives may need to back up and push again and again on freezing days when the rails have ice on them under the snow. They carry sand to put in front of the wheels but in conditions like this they can't carry enough so they do the best they can pushing and backing.
How about if they fell in to a void over the track. Stuck, no one could hear them over the noise of the blower. Not such a good idea to be in front of the blower. Think about safety. Kids, don't try this in your home.
Next time a rotary snow plow comes by my house in 30ft of snow, I'll stay far away
Me to lol
@nkproad777 The snowplow is not diesel, it is electric. The B-Unit is not a B-unit locomotive anymore but basically a "mobile generator" to provide electricity to to the Rotary snowplow. SP called thier plow power units "Snails" because unlike "slugs" they still had thier "shells."
Now that is so very impressive.It tightened my guts when you were close too the thing,but it was really impressive.
If you think that tightens your gut. When the Section Crew was ordered to knock a 2-foot overhang off in front of the plow with shovels. And one shovel accidentally-on-purpose happened to fall in front of the plow when the Engineer had backed up and was headed forward to hit It again and the shovel came out in 3 pieces the Roadmaster said, "I don't think we'll do that anymore". You think!
@@earlhollar1906 if you think that tightens your gut you should see my toro 6 horsepower gasoline powered 4 stroke single stage snow blower in action
Wow nice catch! Never seen a pair of GEVO's and a B unit and a diesel snowplow in one catch! Great job
Judging by the wind shouldn't they be blowing it the other way?
These big ones i think only blow one way
ben dunn You can’t change the direction on those ones it’s only shoots one word
@@wyatt2920 Which word?
@@johnchalleen3278 Snow!
@@JackReacheround you actually can
With that much torque I wonder if they had to engineer something to keep it from twisting itself off the rails.
Cool video! Thanks for sharing :)
Scenes like these make me glad to spend the winter months in Mexico.
Very Interesting. I love those GE's for the sound. Here in Michigan we use Russel Snowplows.
Jared H,
There is improved snow plowing equipment today. It's a jet engine tilted down toward the rails and works well except it can burn the wooden ties. The entire US is supposed to have all ties replaced with concrete, but that will take awhile.
Those jet drys would be virtually useless in this much snow
what happened to those two men walking toward the train? the snow blinded me from seeing where they went...@ 4:45
Was that a joke, or was that REALLY what happened?
didn't you hear them talking about climbing on board?
@shoppy168046 The video contradicts this. The unit moves forward ... and as the load increases on the blower portion the engine struggles against it. The pause indicates that the engine noise and diesel smoke are actually related to the blower section ... not the traction drive.
i love this video so much ive seen it like 10 times lol get some more footage if you can this winter dude !!!
Pretty neat... Up until now, only seen little snippets of these things. Never a nice long study!
It sounds a little like an Alco. It's a real workhorse!
Smokes like an Alco too!
@@GnonplussedGnome 16-567 EMD diesel.
Wow, that was awesome! Not only the machine, but the amount of snow. You would think they would keep a steady amount of force on the blower instead of stalling it out and letting it catch up and repeating.
Why not turn the shute to the other side since the wind is blowing in that direction?
Kiddro22 because there probaly was no other snow blower on the other side Seems logic to me
Seems idiotic to blow snow into the wind. These guys must be new.
It only blows one way. Can’t switch it.
They're standing on those snow drifts and not sinking into them. That's like igloo making snow. Super chilled, wind blown and densely consolidated.
that what it looks like when i snow blow my driveway....the neighbors hate me!
I can just see all the miles and miles of freight trains piled up behind the snow blower eagerly waiting to be speedily on their way down this congested stretch of railway.
that thing sounds scary and looks amazing!
yeah you can, ice on rails, spinning. That's why locomotives have sand on board. The reason it's at intervals is so you don't go full throttle, and to keep it at a set speed.
That blower sounds like an old truck! Lol
sounds alot bigger than a truck engine!
LOL i was fixing my snowblowerso i turned to look and see the old truck plowing(Heard it) NOPE its a TRAIN!
Old truck with 5,000 hp
I'm jealous that had to be awesome to see in person what an opportunity........ 5 stars all around
That thing's like an avalanche in a box!
This is an awesome video! My kids and I were just looking at this bad boy sitting in the Hobson Yard. They will LOVE seeing the video of it in action. Thanks for posting!
I bet the railroad guys hate it when the foamers get that close to the tracks, especially when they're running that kind of equipment.
No actually they like it
Most of the people present there *are* railroaders.
@@ZachPumphery yeah no one minds.
Sounds like a big gas engine in that blower. I'm surprised, I figured it would be diesel. I think it must be an old unit?
It’s actually a two-cycle diesel-electric unit, likely a repurposed prime mover engine made by General Motors’ Electro-Motive Division (EMD) from the 1930’s or 1940’s.
Most rotary plows use these old EMD 2-cycle engines as that was what was available when the last of these types of rotary plows were built, or being converted from piston-steam engines to diesel-electric units.
They do sound like big gasoline engines though, don’t they?
@@rucarnuts13 Yes, that was my first impression. Thank you for the clarification.
Great video
Wow this comment was made when I was 7 holy crap
@@atticusrallye702 👍
Ur old.
Imagine what a pain it would be to do that by yourself with a shovel? Man, that snow blower... I can't believe what it's capable of. Pretty awesome power! It's also pretty cool to see one of the brand new ES44C4s on the job too. Great video!
It would take weeks to clear all that snow with a shovel even if you shovelled with another person at the same time.