One thing I'd personally add in some way: Anyone who tries to read the mind of a Gray Philosopher runs the risk of suffering from the curse, or maybe it becomes easier for the curse to take hold when the Death Knell activates (suffering Disadvantage to the save or something like that). Very Ravenloft-inspired, but fits the creature. Love this creature. Never came upon it despite my love for the old, obscure creatures (especially undead). Thanks again, Dungeon Dad!
What if the philosopher is so deep in thought that, instead of being just unaware of their surroundings, they hear things said around them but can't distinguish between outside voices & their own thoughts Combine this with it constantly muttering to itself & you might be able to ask it questions to receive occasional cryptic answers ...while being swarmed by malices, of course :)
Personally, I like the idea of the Philosopher being in slightly odder places. Maybe it sits in the same place it died, crushed beneath an ancient bookshelf, drowned in a shipwreck, or cutdown on ye olde chamber pot. Perhaps the opposite is true, and the creature emerges not at its death location but wherever the obsession that haunted its life first began. One day it just appears in the audience seats of a theatre house, the waiting room of an ancient bank, a corner table at a seedy bar, or a dark mountain vista overlooking the kingdom.
With the Grey following a god, I could totally see the malices showing up as little specters of that’s god domains, such as little ghostly winged badgers for a nature god or like a flying tome for a knowledge god. With these apparitions attacking anyone who barely shakes in their faith. Great video, loved it!!
@@DungeonDad First time player, but in our current party my L3 cleric of light would probably just cook it from afar with a single Flaming Sphere. Until the Barb decides to charge in, that is.
Currently running Strahd, definitely gonna throw this in there as a cleric trying to figure out a way to defeat Strahd and becoming obsessed with trying to figure that out.
Man after you mentioned them in a lichs lair, I couldn't get the image out of my head of the party seeking out a lich for aid(for some reason) and coming into the lair and the lich is sitting next to the grey philosopher and having a deep philosophical discussion while sipping tea While writing that I had another idea, the grey philosopher knows a secret something like the location of the lichs phylactery but he won't give it willingly, so the party does some digging and finds out the lich actually has the answer to the gray philosophers question and has been keeping it from him.
@@DungeonDad awesome, maybe if you do a plot hooks episode about this guy I can get an honorable mention, keep up the good work man you are one of my favorites d&d TH-cam channels
I love the idea of a None-Evil version of this creature. Also with the Lich scenario, what if they are a Sane None-Evil version of a Lich. Then add in perhaps a Druid and a Paladin who also aren't Evil. They perhaps all achieved Immortality or at least Immortality Adjacent (Druid Timeless Body and Clone Magic) they received many thousands of years ago a True Prophecy about a Planar Ending threat. So with this Immortality stuff they did so to be "alive" to then fight back against the threat.
Here a good hook you could full Lovecraftin like Nyarlathotep was in their human guise and rolled though some small cities and caused some gray philosophers to be created by posing unanswerable questions to the local population causing the cities to be abandoned or over run. Heck it doesn't even have to be a plot hook it can be just world building flavour.
Sorry for the day-delay folks, Covid shots are no joke! Rather than rush it out I wanted to make sure it was worth watching, so here it is! The latest Monster of the Week! Thanks for watching everyone!
Love the Gray Philosopher. I have that creature catalog. Another good book is " Tall Tail of The Wee folk" ,it allowed players to make Fey folk character or the DM to make more powerful Fey NPCs
I am totally going to use this creature along side Allips... One of my party member's father, who was a sage in this big archive died due to becoming obsessed with with knowledge he was being posessed by via the Allip... and so now I'm imagining when the party ever returns to this archive they find the whole place haunted by Allips that are like the congealed malices together into one as they escape and wander about looking for more information as insane whispering creatures.
That's so creepy, I like it a lot. I can just imagine the players having these weird and incomprehensible questions asked of them in distant whispering tones while they traverse the dungeon.
@@DungeonDad Yeah, especially since this seems like a more effective way for an Allip to reproduce itself en masse as, if I'm not mistaken, it normally takes someone having to read an already infected book and then spend a ton of time writing all that information down before the new Allip is born right? Here the Allips would be forming out of the collective stray malice thoughts on the confounding subject...~ Not to mention, I had a follow up idea of having some Nothics also pursuing the bloated stacks to find those Arcane secrets...perhaps even having a Nagpa being behind the original spawning of this particular gray philospher so they could move in to take some knowledge for themselves.
ok so different thought on this monster. A Grey Philosopher comes back "from the great beyond" as a Reborn or a Revenant still trying to unravel the mystery that plagued them in life and then the unlife. Now it still haunts them. for flavor, and the CR fits (i think). take the Swarmkeeper Ranger for the little Malice creatures. eh this is more of spitball, getting the idea out there. thanks for in inspration.
adding this to the school I've been imagining from these videos. Failed studnts often become Gray Philosophers, wandering the school trying to learn all it contains until they can graduate in spirit. The library is hence a very dangurous place.
This is great timing because my guys are soon headed into the wastes of the world looking for a city that was ruined about 8,000 years ago. This will make a great encounter that might or might not be combat, depending on if the barbarian or the bard take the malice's personally.
Never heard of it but I love it! Question: I know it’s undead so the malignant thoughts deal necrotic…. But does anyone else feel as if maybe they should deal psychic damage?
Joke encounter: a really unskilled, but *really* determined caster who went Grey philosopher trying to figure out something that's fairly easy for a proper member of his class.
I can see this being in a modern setting where one of these is setting where it was trying to unravel the ultimate mathematics for the perfect algorithm & is now sending his Malices out through the Web to harass & attack users at home. Of course his hubris was questioning the infallibility of the sacred algorithm, blessed be it's works. (Yes that was sarcasm.)
Imagine what havock a Malice with access to the web do in a "Smart Home." An oven with Wi-Fi is no longer just arguably a waste of money, now it's a murderous hazard.
One of the long standing mysteries in my campaign is that a few thousand years ago when there was a horrible event where astroids struck the world and devastated the mortal population, it was actually not an accident and the gods had done it on purpose to wipe out the advanced civilizations because they regretted letting them access magic because they were able to challenge the gods. That would be a very good mystery for a gray philosopher to be working on and it would be a great way to let the players get their first big hint to it.
This did happen in D&D history, though only one specific civilization. Mages learned how to cast 10th level and higher spells, and attempted to gain control of the goddess of Magic herself.
I'm a very new DnD player, but watch your videos often, and am a big fan! While watching this, I had the idea of potentially using these creatures in combination with the False Hydra, which was mentioned in another one of your videos. Perhaps there are multiple citizens who's minds were warped so severely by the False Hydra, that their souls have been trapped, left to wonder why or how a specific event happened? Then, BOOM. "The Gray City" is born, a completely levelled remnant of a town, with multiple Gray Philosophers left as it's only inhabitants.
Have a look at the Chwidencha. It's easily my favourite non-5e monster. Recently threw some at my players. Of a party of 4, 3 of them were knocked during the fight. So much fun!
That is a great one! Have seen a heavy homebrew of this in the team four star homebrew campain. The unsealed it by moving an elevator up and had to fight against the legs trying to pull the arcane platform into the abyss or where ever. I think the episode was called „Costing a leg and a leg“
A lawful good gray philosopher, but is so strictly lawful that it sticks exactly to the letter of the law that it becomes an issue. Further more it has some sort knowledge that when ever a new law becomes law within its perceived realm it instantly knows the law. This would mean having its minions be allowed more range to handle bringing them to the Gray Philosopher for the law breakers' punishment, but it would be a good plot.
Reminds me of Goldmask from Elden Ring. His philosophical problem kept his spirit attached to his form, when he solved the philosphy, he immediately dies.
What's the original context for this monster? Like, the problem they were trying to solve? Something as vague as an 'unknown, unfathomable secret" doesn't function well in a game about roleplaying interactions.
As far as I know there’s no direct answer given. It’s kind of up to the DM to determine how much or how little you want to give your players I think. I feel like it’s intentionally vague so if you just want to pop one of them in a dungeon you can, but if you want to make them more important you could always get specific.
@@DungeonDad here is my take on the creature: the quest for knowledge, the unravelling of secrets is, when lacking a purpose, neither good, not evil. as such i would make the philosopher a true neutral creature, focused on unravelling a mystery they came so close to solving within their lifetime that they stopped eating or sleeping to finish their research, i would also ad that the grey philosopher has long forgotten the purpose for which they have been seeking this knowledge, so it can't be good or evil. imagine the grey philosopher sitting on a chair in the corner of a library, not bothering anyone as long as it remains undisturbed, the malices only spawn to defend it or to deal with a disturbance, like someone making too much noise, someone trying to move the book the philosopher was reading when he died, or even moving the chair he sits on, it's not a menace to society, but a nuisance to a noble or wizard who now owns that library. the party is tasked by the librarian to resolve the issue, as the creature gets in the way and now the players have to figure out what the question even is, by reading the still open page of his book, looking through a note they find on his desk, consulting older humanoids like a really old elf who might have known the philosopher during his life time. once the party has figured out the question, there are two options to continue, either that question has been solved since the philosophers passing and just figuring out the question was the problem, OR it falls to the players to find that knowledge, not only allowing them to put the philosopher to rest, but maybe also gaining power for themselves through this realization. this could be done through a variety of ways, a warlock might consult his patron for advice, a cleric could pray for guidance from his deity, a wizard could use his own knowledge of history and the arcane, the barbarian could suggest visiting his tribes shaman/druid who is ancient and wise due to timeless body. so many possibilities for different characters of different races, classes and background to contribute here.
One Idea is that you could use this creature at the beginning of a campaign and when the party kills it, his scream affects the whole world, now the whole world is in chaos and the party has to figure out a way to fix their mistake
I could almost see a massively souped up version of one of these as the final boss of a campaign. Imagine having a Big Bad who wreaks havoc upon the land with his summoned hordes of eldritch creatures, and all the party knows is some kind of motivation, maybe become a deity like you said. Maybe he even started off well-intentioned but somewhere along the way realized that, in order to solve the enigma, he would have to employ dark and unsavory means and that's where his Malices begin to spawn. Throughout the campaign the party never meets him, never interacts with him in any way, only fighting his summoned Malices and his disciples. And then at the climax they finally come face to face with him, they give their big heroic speech and... nothing. He doesn't speak to them. He can't even hear them. Even as they start wailing on him, he doesn't fight back. He has been chasing this secret for thousands of years, beyond death itself, and now he will finally take it to oblivion with him. It would make for a rather chilling confrontation, I think. Alternatively, maybe once they've whittled him down to half health, his eyes suddenly light up and focus, he stirs and says something like: "I've got it. After all these years, I've finally got it. The answer... is *you.* You are exactly what I needed... all this time." And then the *true* battle begins.
Instead of being a pet to a lich have the lich seek out the philosopher. A specific one who is contemplating the true nature of death. He is contemplating true immortality and how to kill anything, even a god or even a titan. The lich has a way of getting the knowledge from the philosopher or something.
Maybe something like, the Lich being able to gain answers, but in turn being affected by the curse. But since the Lich reforms at it's Phylactery after death, it causes both itself to reappear, while also creating a grey philosopher in the place it died. And so it wanders the Lands, using it's Arcane Power and magic to try and find answers to impossible questions, creating more and more Grey Philosophers, until the party manages to destroy the Lich once and for all, causing all the Philosophers it spawned to disappear. You could even make it take a dark turn and make it so that the party killing the Lich, causes every single creature currently effected by the curse to die, all of them unleashing their cursed shriek, causing a massive wave of the curse spreading across all the towns/villages that the Lich went through, making it so that the players in pursuit of loot and exp, doomed massive parts of the continent.
What an odd monster. Perfect for my brooding philiopher king who is trying to understand where his kingdom fell apart. Thanks very much. My players are very RP heavy, they will love the idea of almost knowing some great insight.
Christian monks in the eleventh and twelfth century in the holy land would isolate themselves on top of 40foot poles with a platform or hut on the very top to fast, isolate, and contemplate. You could do an encounter were a rich man buys a “cursed” field from a struggling temple. In the field are three pillars of contemplation were the temples last three head priests put themselves after a similar inciting event(mystery: what did all three read or see that lead to their isolation, lets say over a period of 100 years? Who’s is the current head priest? How long and has he come the same conclusion? Did he sell the field to avoid a similar fate?).
Steal this plot idea I came up with: A cleric of a god of death healing and love - Naralis Analor comes to mind - Becomes fixated on the concept of agape love (that is the greek definition the fatherly love of God for humans or gods love humanoids in this case) going so far as to declare love for ones own family is merely a form of discrimination between living beings. Exiled by his church for his radical teachings he preaches how living beings cannot possibly show love for fellow sentient beings on such a scale believing that only in death can one show true love - the giving of their flesh to beasts, insects and bearing cold and harsh winds without complaint, unable to hate or harm. He has amassed an exceptional following of zealots and has begun a transformation into a grey philosopher relying on a speaker to pass on his teachings to his followers. Unbeknownst to his followers his speaker as become the victim of a fiend of possession - now little more than a puppet for the demon who is able to freely sway his believers and weaponizing them to his own ends. The church has thus sent a group of adventurers to find out what's going on and eliminate the leadership of the cult if need be. Though the exact nature of the grey philosopher whether remaining uncorrupted to then aid the party in a moment of peril against such a fiend or undergoing a transformation into a full demon or undead I leave up to you.
Because I think monsters need more weaknesses to reward clever players and diversifying damage, maybe the Grey Philosopher should have a venerability to Psychic damage, as that would interrupt his contemplations.
Yes. I read about these, but never actually used one in a game. With the living wall, that's two of the big three "zero-movement" monsters covered. Do you have any plans to do the gazebo?
@@TheZenBullet Gazebo: CR2. Attack routine: Stand motionless, ignoring all damage for 2d4 rounds, then collapse inflicting 3d6 damage to all creatures within 20'. A dexterity save is allowed for half damage.
the oracle or seer that communicates with the lawful good gray philosopher could also be corrupt, and is lying to the people. kind of like the skyrim dark brotherhood night mother vibe.
We need a new creature catalog. A book of every monster ever updated for 5e. And also maybe something similar for spells and items. And possibly dungeons but that might be a bit too ambitious.
A scenario I could see being fun to run this creature against a party in would be to have a fellow adventuring party slowly falling prey to the curse and them calling out to the players for help
As a God of secrets I would imagine that Vecna had a hand (just one mind you) in their creation. With an eye (again just one) to uncovering vast secrets.
I had a thought of a slightly altered version of this creature that could be made into a one-shot, but would require the creature to move. The Grey Philosopher could've been a researcher who stumbled upon a truly massive magical library, but was in such poor health that they died shortly after arriving, perhaps without even opening a single book (alternately, it could be a normal spirit that transforms INTO a Grey Philosopher during the adventure). The party is tasked to help the researcher's spirit by guiding them to areas where the spirit could find materials relevant to its research, perhaps under the assumption it was looking for something akin to a cure for a disease ravaging the area. However, as they continue to help, curious adventurers may begin to notice that the books that the spirit focuses on aren't exactly wholesome and begin getting suspicious, but should they try to confront the creature, it spawns a number of Malices and leaves to continues its research in another room. The PCs must now hunt the Grey Philosopher throughout the library, only to eventually find it on a throne hidden behind a secret wall (maybe have some Malices come through cracks in the wall to indicate that it's there), where upon the more traditional fight against the Grey Philosopher happens as it tries to figure out the answer it sought.
I feel like with a bit of rework, this could be a new, interesting take on the Stone Giant Dreamwalker. Maybe after years of wondering in the 'dreamworld', and going more and more mad, while collecting weird objects they think have some great meaning, some dreamwalkers sit down to think, motionless, gradually turning into stone.
Awesome video. Really well done and the fact you go over plot hooks is really valuable content!! I’m starting a Theros campaign tomorrow and this fits perfectly with the Sage PC’s backstory. Someone asked him a question that he didn’t know the answer to, when he sought out the information, it angered Kruphix (the God of the Horizon and sacred knowledge). And thanks to your video, I have a plan! The person who was seeking the info was showing traits of the curse, and will eventually (when the players are appropriate level) turn into the gray philosopher, still seeking answers. Thanks again for the video.
You're super welcome, thanks for watching! I adore that idea. I have a huge soft spot for Theros, so I'm really happy someone is going to be using this monster in a Theros game. Tying it to Kruphix and one of the PC's backstory is literally perfect. Great idea!
I like the idea of using the Grey Sage as a good NPC. Someone that the party could come back to gain knowledge but would often get lost in thought and stop talking. Maybe it would be a “White Sage”?
As per the stat block they are typically evil, but alignment is always more of a guideline anyway. I would totally consider having one of them be good or neutral so that the party might be able to help them out.
@@DungeonDad Sounds like a puzzle hook. > Neutral Grey Philosopher sitting on a throne in front of an obvious rotating wall > Must have the know-how, knowledge via magic item/spell (such as using wish to find the answer) > Philosopher figures it out, bids farewell and fades away > Wall rotates and you get a chest, scroll, etc That would be a pretty unique encounter, It may even require back tracking or end game knowledge in order to beat the puzzle.
definitely heard of them before - know for a fact they appeared in Mystara and Ravenloft sourcebooks but don't know of actual appearances in adventures.
Yo, super cool monster! Great find, for certain! I never heard of it myself but it does sound super interesting. I could see running it as a lower level threat for a horror-themed adventure. A wizard, sage, cloistered, heretical monk or Philosopher comes across a dark, eldritch tome, and if the tome itself is not directly cursed, the knowledge within worms it's way into the reader's mind, becoming their obsession. This can let you put one of these monsters in a more active environment, providing a more immediate hook as a village or abbey becomes plagued by unending malices. The players have to find the Gray Philosopher, who might be hidden in a secret lab or chamber as their studies drove them to paranoid conspiracy, while constantly fending off the ever spawning malice. Not to mention if they aren't careful when defeating the Gray Philosopher, it's Death Knell could end up cursing the NPCs in the area, either perpetuating the problem or causing a full 'nice job breaking it heroes' where a once humble village just becomes nothing but a mass of Gray Philosophers in a sea of Malice because of the player's actions.
I have just finished a campaign where the entire party were new players, effectively an intro to D&D. My big bad was a Grey Philosopher. The idea was, the Grey Philosopher was a mad cleric whose evil plan was thwarted 500 years ago when he was assassinated, but his soul refused to move on until he could figure out how to complete his plan. Anyway it worked really well because depending on whether or not the new players wanted to continue, I had options. At the upcoming session zero, if they want to continue with the campaign, the Grey Philosopher could transform into a lich or something else and continue to be a threat (potentially being sucked into Ravenloft). If they wanted to change the campaign, or stop, the villain was beaten. The other thing was being such an obscure monster, the noob PCs would have had no idea how to beat it without having collected numerous clues about how to deal with him. The other thing I was able to do was I prepared a "vision" associated with his death knell, which was a couple of paragraphs that I instant messaged to those who failed their saving throw, so it doubled as the curse and foreshadowed his return in another form. It showed the Grey Philosopher sacrificing his followers by draining their psychic energy to enable his return.
I like the idea of having one of those guys just thinking about the most trivial stupidity, and you get to give him the answer (like a chad paladin who’d died JUST after being asked a dumb riddle) and you tell him the answer, and it’s the most weird-ass “ascension”. Like, there’s no big reveal, no curse, unless maybe you got a dumber party member who now tries to figure out why the answer works, and you may even get this nee chad-bro lesser god on your side or against you according to if he wanted you or not to give him the answer…
Warlock invocation: greater Eldritch contemplation Your move speed is reduced to half and you can only take one action a round, in return you gain the abilities and resistances of the Grey Philosopher (save determined by your charisma not intelegence) You can spawn a max of 1d4×Cha mod malice at a rate of 1d3-4(not sure)/round (this is due to the active and malicious nature of invocations, the normal spawn rate is 1d4 and chatisma mod is the measure of a warlocks casting power) and the malice despawn 1d4 rounds after contemplation ends. Duration: 24 hours (I'm talking 3.5 warlock technically and a manteled invocation like this has a standard duration of 24 hours warlocks only got like 14 invocations total)
Personally i would see as an illuminati dnd season. Think about it. The grey philosopher or a table of group grey philosophers running a complex network of schemes to collect enough knowledge for a goal. Using pawns and becaming a shadow government. Doesn't have to be random eldritch thinking. That monster is brilliant for a conspiracy like dnd campain. Your big bad doesn't always has to be a Lich. Love it.❤
I've been binge watching your videos and I've been enjoying the look into ad&d because I pull alot from second edition for my fifth edition games. my question though is where do I get a copy of the creature catalogue?
Discworld-esque idea: the party is tasked by a pink dragon to retrieve the ULTIMATE Joke. Which is of course the topic of the grey philosopher's pomdering. Of course it will turn out to be a bad pun or immature scatological joke that anyone with an INT higher than a 3yo wouldn't find that funny
This reminds me of a philosopher undead you meet in Divinity Original Sin 2. If you talk to him you can challenge him to a battle of wits, which gets so existential that if you lose, your character's head literally explodes and you have to res them.
I remember re-statting this one for 3.5 years ago. I made the philosopher itself a hazard rather than a creature, because it's so passive that only its Malices really needed full stats. The philosopher could be "Disarmed" with either sufficient magical-weapon damage or with a high enough Wisdom or Religion check to out-argue it.
I think an interesting mechsnic for the malices would be having them infect others thoughts more directly, causing effects akin to confusion or crown of madness.
When I think over-thinking that will freeze a person in place, I don't think contemplating on some serious deep secret truth... I think ANXIETY. Imagine if someone had anxiety So Bad, it killed them, trapped their soul to the spot, their own anxious thoughts taking a life on their own and screwing over any living thing in the vicinity.... Just as anxiety actually does to a person and their loved ones. You could throw them in an abandoned insane asylum, or in some lost/hidden corner of a massive magic school. A student panicking over an exam so hard, his own thoughts barred him from ever taking the final test. Death Knell curse? You got epic-level anxiety now too!! Did you close your backpack? Did you leave your oven on before the quest? Does your armor make you look as stupid as you feel? How screwed would you be if you face a rust monster? Do you have a decent backup weapon to your main weapon? Oh god, what if your party of adventurers finds out about that embarrassing thing you did as a kid?!??!!?!? Bam. Totes more relatable than obsessing over some ancient truth.
I thought it would be really fitting if, instead of malices, there would be a philosopher that spawns Moigno's instead, physical contemplations of this equation they are struggling to determine the solution for, all failures discarded and made into malignant mathematical forces.
For my campaign, I can see them being the former apostles of the former god of knowledge, trying to piece together why their god was destroyed by their own power. Why is too much power a possibility for a god? How much was too much? How can it be prevented in the future? Honestly this could actually be great for the plot line I have with a Demigod’s anxieties around ascending to godhood. It’d be a more late game part of the campaign but well worth the wait I think. Thanks for giving me the chance to think about this man!
I got hit by one in a 1980s era Sliders campaign. Just slid on in to a town who was like "yeah, we don't fucking go into that library anymore. You get asked unknowable questions at the door, and a wrong answer is death."
This seems like a wonderful Way to put a hint machine into any dungeon. Just have the party come across a room with the philosopher sitting. They merely noticed the party and say. So rare for me to get visitors when I am busy thinking. I have enough time to answer at least three questions. But then I must get back to my contemplations, Existence won't figure itself out. Now what would you like to know. And it can only answer questions about that particular dungeon or the enemies within. But if the parties go to a different dungeon later And get stumped they encounter the same thing. Who literally responds with. What a surprised meeting you again, I guess it is a small world after all. If you have any questions about this place I am More than happy to answer but again I can only answer three questions, For it is very tiring To split my mind between my contemplations and the mortal rows.
Think this us a great monster to psychologically mess with the plauers, maybe homebrew that it can cast message to speak to them, lure it in to its dungeon and spook them into giving it clues; would make a great plot-twist quest giver that turns out is really evil and youve been helping it unravel that mystery the whole time
I run d&d in a fallout inspired setting. So an idea I might do, that it is an internet obssesed dude who was obssesed with something- powerscaling a silly anime, theorizing about the MCU.. and he mutter d&d rethorics. "DBS is mid" and to people of the fallout it sound mysteriouse and they make a cult behind him
I would add one thing, not sure if its a correction because I'm not sure what you were saying with never to be heard from again. But the creature actually appeared in (and the nice colored artwork you use is from) the Mystara Monstrous Compendium (which was in large part just the 2e version of the Creature Catalog with some monsters missing and some new ones added and nice colored artwork). I only know this because a- I'm obsessed with bestiaries for games I play in and don't play in and b - Creature Catalog and, by extension, the Mystara Compendium are some of my favorite monster books of all time. And on that note, thank you for converting this guy, I've always loved the Gray Philosopher and the extra ideas you gave for higher level parties is VERY inspiring!
I'd like to imagine two scholars, brothers. Over the years one becomes mad turning into a philosopher. While the other desperate to "save" him goes down the road of becoming a lich. For 100's of years he trys to help his brother eventually reaching out to a party with a disguise. Only after the party helps him, he tells his story and hands over his phylactery telling them to destroy it so they might both rest.
how did you get that picture of me sitting behind the bleachers haha!?!
Ahaha that cameo was excellent
For higher level play, give the philosopher a Counterspell legendary action, called "But why?".
Why not?
because i can.
Call it denial.
Dammit! why won't it let me thumbs-up this more than once?
Counterspell it with
"Because I said so"
One thing I'd personally add in some way:
Anyone who tries to read the mind of a Gray Philosopher runs the risk of suffering from the curse, or maybe it becomes easier for the curse to take hold when the Death Knell activates (suffering Disadvantage to the save or something like that).
Very Ravenloft-inspired, but fits the creature.
Love this creature. Never came upon it despite my love for the old, obscure creatures (especially undead). Thanks again, Dungeon Dad!
I love that idea so much! Thanks for watching man!
What if the philosopher is so deep in thought that, instead of being just unaware of their surroundings, they hear things said around them but can't distinguish between outside voices & their own thoughts
Combine this with it constantly muttering to itself & you might be able to ask it questions to receive occasional cryptic answers
...while being swarmed by malices, of course :)
Personally, I like the idea of the Philosopher being in slightly odder places. Maybe it sits in the same place it died, crushed beneath an ancient bookshelf, drowned in a shipwreck, or cutdown on ye olde chamber pot.
Perhaps the opposite is true, and the creature emerges not at its death location but wherever the obsession that haunted its life first began. One day it just appears in the audience seats of a theatre house, the waiting room of an ancient bank, a corner table at a seedy bar, or a dark mountain vista overlooking the kingdom.
With the Grey following a god, I could totally see the malices showing up as little specters of that’s god domains, such as little ghostly winged badgers for a nature god or like a flying tome for a knowledge god. With these apparitions attacking anyone who barely shakes in their faith. Great video, loved it!!
A monster that just sits there and doesn’t react to anything is actually incredibly creepy. This is really cool, I gotta chuck this in a game soon!
Heck yeah! They might make for a good Halloween monster!
@@DungeonDad First time player, but in our current party my L3 cleric of light would probably just cook it from afar with a single Flaming Sphere.
Until the Barb decides to charge in, that is.
Currently running Strahd, definitely gonna throw this in there as a cleric trying to figure out a way to defeat Strahd and becoming obsessed with trying to figure that out.
That's an awesome idea
Party comes back "hey we defeated Strahd, we hit him really hard" and the cleric screams a terrifyingly loud obscenity and explodes
Man after you mentioned them in a lichs lair, I couldn't get the image out of my head of the party seeking out a lich for aid(for some reason) and coming into the lair and the lich is sitting next to the grey philosopher and having a deep philosophical discussion while sipping tea
While writing that I had another idea, the grey philosopher knows a secret something like the location of the lichs phylactery but he won't give it willingly, so the party does some digging and finds out the lich actually has the answer to the gray philosophers question and has been keeping it from him.
Man, both of those ideas are truly A+, well done. I am absolutely gonna use this in the future
@@DungeonDad awesome, maybe if you do a plot hooks episode about this guy I can get an honorable mention, keep up the good work man you are one of my favorites d&d TH-cam channels
I love the idea of a None-Evil version of this creature. Also with the Lich scenario, what if they are a Sane None-Evil version of a Lich. Then add in perhaps a Druid and a Paladin who also aren't Evil. They perhaps all achieved Immortality or at least Immortality Adjacent (Druid Timeless Body and Clone Magic) they received many thousands of years ago a True Prophecy about a Planar Ending threat. So with this Immortality stuff they did so to be "alive" to then fight back against the threat.
Here a good hook you could full Lovecraftin like Nyarlathotep was in their human guise and rolled though some small cities and caused some gray philosophers to be created by posing unanswerable questions to the local population causing the cities to be abandoned or over run. Heck it doesn't even have to be a plot hook it can be just world building flavour.
That is a really cool idea, I am definitely going to use this at some point.
Sounds like the short story of the same name.
No actions and no movement is definitely a jab at philosophy ;)
Philosophies are the root from which all cultural and political movements stem. Actions and movements just lag decades behind philosophy.
@@HenriFaust "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
@@TorchyThePyro ty
@@TorchyThePyro that is an amazing quote
Sorry for the day-delay folks, Covid shots are no joke! Rather than rush it out I wanted to make sure it was worth watching, so here it is! The latest Monster of the Week! Thanks for watching everyone!
Yeah. I ran a fever for a week after mine. Still grateful for it! But it was real rough.
I got two and I was fine.
A bit late, but congratulations! Big and important, everyone needs one for sure, such a tremendous defense
Love the Gray Philosopher. I have that creature catalog. Another good book is " Tall Tail of The Wee folk" ,it allowed players to make Fey folk character or the DM to make more powerful Fey NPCs
Don't you mean "Tale?"
The Professor from Avatar was exactly what I was thinking of when you first mentioned they couldn't move. glad to see we're on the same page, mate
Haha absolutely! He immediately came to mind!
"I could spend an eternity in there" is really a quote that shook me when I rewatched Avatar
I am totally going to use this creature along side Allips... One of my party member's father, who was a sage in this big archive died due to becoming obsessed with with knowledge he was being posessed by via the Allip... and so now I'm imagining when the party ever returns to this archive they find the whole place haunted by Allips that are like the congealed malices together into one as they escape and wander about looking for more information as insane whispering creatures.
That's so creepy, I like it a lot. I can just imagine the players having these weird and incomprehensible questions asked of them in distant whispering tones while they traverse the dungeon.
@@DungeonDad Yeah, especially since this seems like a more effective way for an Allip to reproduce itself en masse as, if I'm not mistaken, it normally takes someone having to read an already infected book and then spend a ton of time writing all that information down before the new Allip is born right? Here the Allips would be forming out of the collective stray malice thoughts on the confounding subject...~
Not to mention, I had a follow up idea of having some Nothics also pursuing the bloated stacks to find those Arcane secrets...perhaps even having a Nagpa being behind the original spawning of this particular gray philospher so they could move in to take some knowledge for themselves.
I wonder if an Allip and a Gray Philosopher can come from the same person? Like a ghost and a zombie.
ok so different thought on this monster. A Grey Philosopher comes back "from the great beyond" as a Reborn or a Revenant still trying to unravel the mystery that plagued them in life and then the unlife. Now it still haunts them.
for flavor, and the CR fits (i think). take the Swarmkeeper Ranger for the little Malice creatures.
eh this is more of spitball, getting the idea out there.
thanks for in inspration.
I can see a litch developing the obsession and trying to farm these to create undead computers that double as defense systems
Absolutely brilliant
@@DungeonDad ty
adding this to the school I've been imagining from these videos. Failed studnts often become Gray Philosophers, wandering the school trying to learn all it contains until they can graduate in spirit. The library is hence a very dangurous place.
Oh damn! That's a great idea, I could see it fitting in perfectly with Strixhaven.
This is great timing because my guys are soon headed into the wastes of the world looking for a city that was ruined about 8,000 years ago. This will make a great encounter that might or might not be combat, depending on if the barbarian or the bard take the malice's personally.
Awesome! Let us know how it goes!
Never heard of it but I love it!
Question: I know it’s undead so the malignant thoughts deal necrotic…. But does anyone else feel as if maybe they should deal psychic damage?
Im thinking of running a low level dungeon crawl built by spellweavers. I could see using this as the librarian/sub-boss.
They would fit perfectly with the flavour!~
Also, I see a nice overlap with the contemplator...a fusion of the two (gray contemplator?) could make a great higher-level encounter.
Damn, that's a neat idea. These guys have big contemplator vibes for sure.
Joke encounter: a really unskilled, but *really* determined caster who went Grey philosopher trying to figure out something that's fairly easy for a proper member of his class.
2 years after u wrote it im adding this into my game, thanks!
I can see this being in a modern setting where one of these is setting where it was trying to unravel the ultimate mathematics for the perfect algorithm & is now sending his Malices out through the Web to harass & attack users at home. Of course his hubris was questioning the infallibility of the sacred algorithm, blessed be it's works. (Yes that was sarcasm.)
They have to calculate Pi!
Imagine what havock a Malice with access to the web do in a "Smart Home." An oven with Wi-Fi is no longer just arguably a waste of money, now it's a murderous hazard.
Spawning more powerful creatures you say? Maybe such as the Sorrowsworn?
I was thinking star spawn, but same general idea.
One of the long standing mysteries in my campaign is that a few thousand years ago when there was a horrible event where astroids struck the world and devastated the mortal population, it was actually not an accident and the gods had done it on purpose to wipe out the advanced civilizations because they regretted letting them access magic because they were able to challenge the gods. That would be a very good mystery for a gray philosopher to be working on and it would be a great way to let the players get their first big hint to it.
This did happen in D&D history, though only one specific civilization. Mages learned how to cast 10th level and higher spells, and attempted to gain control of the goddess of Magic herself.
That's the story of pathfinder, basically.
Wait, Now all I can think about is PCs walking to a room where a Grey Jester is desperately trying to get a Grey Philosopher to laugh 😂😂😂
I'm a very new DnD player, but watch your videos often, and am a big fan!
While watching this, I had the idea of potentially using these creatures in combination with the False Hydra, which was mentioned in another one of your videos. Perhaps there are multiple citizens who's minds were warped so severely by the False Hydra, that their souls have been trapped, left to wonder why or how a specific event happened?
Then, BOOM. "The Gray City" is born, a completely levelled remnant of a town, with multiple Gray Philosophers left as it's only inhabitants.
Oh man, that's a really cool idea!
Have a look at the Chwidencha. It's easily my favourite non-5e monster. Recently threw some at my players. Of a party of 4, 3 of them were knocked during the fight. So much fun!
I’ll check it out!
That is a great one! Have seen a heavy homebrew of this in the team four star homebrew campain. The unsealed it by moving an elevator up and had to fight against the legs trying to pull the arcane platform into the abyss or where ever. I think the episode was called „Costing a leg and a leg“
Okay, very important question: could the Grisgol’s madness curse create one of these things?
That is a very cool idea! I love that.
A lawful good gray philosopher, but is so strictly lawful that it sticks exactly to the letter of the law that it becomes an issue. Further more it has some sort knowledge that when ever a new law becomes law within its perceived realm it instantly knows the law. This would mean having its minions be allowed more range to handle bringing them to the Gray Philosopher for the law breakers' punishment, but it would be a good plot.
Reminds me of Goldmask from Elden Ring. His philosophical problem kept his spirit attached to his form, when he solved the philosphy, he immediately dies.
What's the original context for this monster? Like, the problem they were trying to solve? Something as vague as an 'unknown, unfathomable secret" doesn't function well in a game about roleplaying interactions.
As far as I know there’s no direct answer given. It’s kind of up to the DM to determine how much or how little you want to give your players I think. I feel like it’s intentionally vague so if you just want to pop one of them in a dungeon you can, but if you want to make them more important you could always get specific.
@@DungeonDad here is my take on the creature:
the quest for knowledge, the unravelling of secrets is, when lacking a purpose, neither good, not evil.
as such i would make the philosopher a true neutral creature, focused on unravelling a mystery they came so close to solving within their lifetime that they stopped eating or sleeping to finish their research, i would also ad that the grey philosopher has long forgotten the purpose for which they have been seeking this knowledge, so it can't be good or evil.
imagine the grey philosopher sitting on a chair in the corner of a library, not bothering anyone as long as it remains undisturbed, the malices only spawn to defend it or to deal with a disturbance, like someone making too much noise, someone trying to move the book the philosopher was reading when he died, or even moving the chair he sits on, it's not a menace to society, but a nuisance to a noble or wizard who now owns that library.
the party is tasked by the librarian to resolve the issue, as the creature gets in the way and now the players have to figure out what the question even is, by reading the still open page of his book, looking through a note they find on his desk, consulting older humanoids like a really old elf who might have known the philosopher during his life time.
once the party has figured out the question, there are two options to continue, either that question has been solved since the philosophers passing and just figuring out the question was the problem, OR it falls to the players to find that knowledge, not only allowing them to put the philosopher to rest, but maybe also gaining power for themselves through this realization.
this could be done through a variety of ways, a warlock might consult his patron for advice, a cleric could pray for guidance from his deity, a wizard could use his own knowledge of history and the arcane, the barbarian could suggest visiting his tribes shaman/druid who is ancient and wise due to timeless body.
so many possibilities for different characters of different races, classes and background to contribute here.
I also imagine them moving as putting up a conspiracy board with sting and everything.
It's true, I was the skywhale
Arooooooooooooo (That means thanks in whale language)
this is certainly warlock undead patron material
One Idea is that you could use this creature at the beginning of a campaign and when the party kills it, his scream affects the whole world, now the whole world is in chaos and the party has to figure out a way to fix their mistake
I could see a Grey Philosopher being in a ruin with a load of moignos around it instead of malices, if it's more of a neutral creature maybe.
I could almost see a massively souped up version of one of these as the final boss of a campaign. Imagine having a Big Bad who wreaks havoc upon the land with his summoned hordes of eldritch creatures, and all the party knows is some kind of motivation, maybe become a deity like you said. Maybe he even started off well-intentioned but somewhere along the way realized that, in order to solve the enigma, he would have to employ dark and unsavory means and that's where his Malices begin to spawn. Throughout the campaign the party never meets him, never interacts with him in any way, only fighting his summoned Malices and his disciples.
And then at the climax they finally come face to face with him, they give their big heroic speech and... nothing. He doesn't speak to them. He can't even hear them. Even as they start wailing on him, he doesn't fight back. He has been chasing this secret for thousands of years, beyond death itself, and now he will finally take it to oblivion with him. It would make for a rather chilling confrontation, I think.
Alternatively, maybe once they've whittled him down to half health, his eyes suddenly light up and focus, he stirs and says something like: "I've got it. After all these years, I've finally got it. The answer... is *you.* You are exactly what I needed... all this time."
And then the *true* battle begins.
Instead of being a pet to a lich have the lich seek out the philosopher. A specific one who is contemplating the true nature of death. He is contemplating true immortality and how to kill anything, even a god or even a titan. The lich has a way of getting the knowledge from the philosopher or something.
Maybe something like, the Lich being able to gain answers, but in turn being affected by the curse. But since the Lich reforms at it's Phylactery after death, it causes both itself to reappear, while also creating a grey philosopher in the place it died. And so it wanders the Lands, using it's Arcane Power and magic to try and find answers to impossible questions, creating more and more Grey Philosophers, until the party manages to destroy the Lich once and for all, causing all the Philosophers it spawned to disappear. You could even make it take a dark turn and make it so that the party killing the Lich, causes every single creature currently effected by the curse to die, all of them unleashing their cursed shriek, causing a massive wave of the curse spreading across all the towns/villages that the Lich went through, making it so that the players in pursuit of loot and exp, doomed massive parts of the continent.
What an odd monster. Perfect for my brooding philiopher king who is trying to understand where his kingdom fell apart. Thanks very much. My players are very RP heavy, they will love the idea of almost knowing some great insight.
Christian monks in the eleventh and twelfth century in the holy land would isolate themselves on top of 40foot poles with a platform or hut on the very top to fast, isolate, and contemplate.
You could do an encounter were a rich man buys a “cursed” field from a struggling temple. In the field are three pillars of contemplation were the temples last three head priests put themselves after a similar inciting event(mystery: what did all three read or see that lead to their isolation, lets say over a period of 100 years? Who’s is the current head priest? How long and has he come the same conclusion? Did he sell the field to avoid a similar fate?).
Steal this plot idea I came up with: A cleric of a god of death healing and love - Naralis Analor comes to mind - Becomes fixated on the concept of agape love (that is the greek definition the fatherly love of God for humans or gods love humanoids in this case) going so far as to declare love for ones own family is merely a form of discrimination between living beings. Exiled by his church for his radical teachings he preaches how living beings cannot possibly show love for fellow sentient beings on such a scale believing that only in death can one show true love - the giving of their flesh to beasts, insects and bearing cold and harsh winds without complaint, unable to hate or harm. He has amassed an exceptional following of zealots and has begun a transformation into a grey philosopher relying on a speaker to pass on his teachings to his followers. Unbeknownst to his followers his speaker as become the victim of a fiend of possession - now little more than a puppet for the demon who is able to freely sway his believers and weaponizing them to his own ends. The church has thus sent a group of adventurers to find out what's going on and eliminate the leadership of the cult if need be. Though the exact nature of the grey philosopher whether remaining uncorrupted to then aid the party in a moment of peril against such a fiend or undergoing a transformation into a full demon or undead I leave up to you.
Because I think monsters need more weaknesses to reward clever players and diversifying damage, maybe the Grey Philosopher should have a venerability to Psychic damage, as that would interrupt his contemplations.
Yes. I read about these, but never actually used one in a game.
With the living wall, that's two of the big three "zero-movement" monsters covered. Do you have any plans to do the gazebo?
The CR would be too high for a standard 5e game
@@TheZenBullet Gazebo: CR2.
Attack routine: Stand motionless, ignoring all damage for 2d4 rounds, then collapse inflicting 3d6 damage to all creatures within 20'. A dexterity save is allowed for half damage.
the oracle or seer that communicates with the lawful good gray philosopher could also be corrupt, and is lying to the people. kind of like the skyrim dark brotherhood night mother vibe.
We need a new creature catalog. A book of every monster ever updated for 5e. And also maybe something similar for spells and items. And possibly dungeons but that might be a bit too ambitious.
A scenario I could see being fun to run this creature against a party in would be to have a fellow adventuring party slowly falling prey to the curse and them calling out to the players for help
As a God of secrets I would imagine that Vecna had a hand (just one mind you) in their creation. With an eye (again just one) to uncovering vast secrets.
Just one mind you... 😄
Part of me thinks it would be cool for it to be an undead warlock patron.
I had a thought of a slightly altered version of this creature that could be made into a one-shot, but would require the creature to move. The Grey Philosopher could've been a researcher who stumbled upon a truly massive magical library, but was in such poor health that they died shortly after arriving, perhaps without even opening a single book (alternately, it could be a normal spirit that transforms INTO a Grey Philosopher during the adventure). The party is tasked to help the researcher's spirit by guiding them to areas where the spirit could find materials relevant to its research, perhaps under the assumption it was looking for something akin to a cure for a disease ravaging the area. However, as they continue to help, curious adventurers may begin to notice that the books that the spirit focuses on aren't exactly wholesome and begin getting suspicious, but should they try to confront the creature, it spawns a number of Malices and leaves to continues its research in another room. The PCs must now hunt the Grey Philosopher throughout the library, only to eventually find it on a throne hidden behind a secret wall (maybe have some Malices come through cracks in the wall to indicate that it's there), where upon the more traditional fight against the Grey Philosopher happens as it tries to figure out the answer it sought.
Makes you think...
I do like this monster, pure mind and spirit given form. I see so many possibilities with the gray philospher.
Is it possible to put a chair inside of a stone or iron golem and sit a potential grey philosopher inside. The answer is yes and run.
I feel like with a bit of rework, this could be a new, interesting take on the Stone Giant Dreamwalker.
Maybe after years of wondering in the 'dreamworld', and going more and more mad, while collecting weird objects they think have some great meaning, some dreamwalkers sit down to think, motionless, gradually turning into stone.
Awesome video. Really well done and the fact you go over plot hooks is really valuable content!! I’m starting a Theros campaign tomorrow and this fits perfectly with the Sage PC’s backstory. Someone asked him a question that he didn’t know the answer to, when he sought out the information, it angered Kruphix (the God of the Horizon and sacred knowledge). And thanks to your video, I have a plan! The person who was seeking the info was showing traits of the curse, and will eventually (when the players are appropriate level) turn into the gray philosopher, still seeking answers. Thanks again for the video.
You're super welcome, thanks for watching!
I adore that idea. I have a huge soft spot for Theros, so I'm really happy someone is going to be using this monster in a Theros game. Tying it to Kruphix and one of the PC's backstory is literally perfect. Great idea!
I've fallen in love with this channel.
I like the idea of using the Grey Sage as a good NPC. Someone that the party could come back to gain knowledge but would often get lost in thought and stop talking.
Maybe it would be a “White Sage”?
Are Grey Philosophers made evil? Could you work with one and help it understand it's ideal?
As per the stat block they are typically evil, but alignment is always more of a guideline anyway. I would totally consider having one of them be good or neutral so that the party might be able to help them out.
@@DungeonDad
Sounds like a puzzle hook.
> Neutral Grey Philosopher sitting on a throne in front of an obvious rotating wall
> Must have the know-how, knowledge via magic item/spell (such as using wish to find the answer)
> Philosopher figures it out, bids farewell and fades away
> Wall rotates and you get a chest, scroll, etc
That would be a pretty unique encounter,
It may even require back tracking or end game knowledge in order to beat the puzzle.
😰 oh that sounds like scrupoulosity ocd turned to 11.
definitely heard of them before - know for a fact they appeared in Mystara and Ravenloft sourcebooks but don't know of actual appearances in adventures.
Now I’m thinking of running a great philosophiser/ inventor who “don’t speak good” but aims to improve science and magic to their absolute limit
Dude you have become my new every day channel. All you're content embodies all the things I love about dnd yt channels in one. Love love LOVE IT!!!
I love this concept. Gonna save it!
A great way to buff this creature is to give it a class and passive abilities based on which class you give it.
Yo, super cool monster! Great find, for certain! I never heard of it myself but it does sound super interesting. I could see running it as a lower level threat for a horror-themed adventure. A wizard, sage, cloistered, heretical monk or Philosopher comes across a dark, eldritch tome, and if the tome itself is not directly cursed, the knowledge within worms it's way into the reader's mind, becoming their obsession.
This can let you put one of these monsters in a more active environment, providing a more immediate hook as a village or abbey becomes plagued by unending malices. The players have to find the Gray Philosopher, who might be hidden in a secret lab or chamber as their studies drove them to paranoid conspiracy, while constantly fending off the ever spawning malice. Not to mention if they aren't careful when defeating the Gray Philosopher, it's Death Knell could end up cursing the NPCs in the area, either perpetuating the problem or causing a full 'nice job breaking it heroes' where a once humble village just becomes nothing but a mass of Gray Philosophers in a sea of Malice because of the player's actions.
I really like this one, teaming it up with some allips would make a fun encounter
This is an AWESOME creature. So much potential. Its so obscure I feel like almost no one would have come across one.
living wall vs gray philosopher
I've never heard of this.
You sir are a gentleman, scholar and philosopher. An artist and and genius.
Loved this video and have to admit I was not aware of it xD
Very cool and I got ideas for how this fits into my world already. Thanks
I have just finished a campaign where the entire party were new players, effectively an intro to D&D. My big bad was a Grey Philosopher. The idea was, the Grey Philosopher was a mad cleric whose evil plan was thwarted 500 years ago when he was assassinated, but his soul refused to move on until he could figure out how to complete his plan. Anyway it worked really well because depending on whether or not the new players wanted to continue, I had options. At the upcoming session zero, if they want to continue with the campaign, the Grey Philosopher could transform into a lich or something else and continue to be a threat (potentially being sucked into Ravenloft). If they wanted to change the campaign, or stop, the villain was beaten. The other thing was being such an obscure monster, the noob PCs would have had no idea how to beat it without having collected numerous clues about how to deal with him.
The other thing I was able to do was I prepared a "vision" associated with his death knell, which was a couple of paragraphs that I instant messaged to those who failed their saving throw, so it doubled as the curse and foreshadowed his return in another form. It showed the Grey Philosopher sacrificing his followers by draining their psychic energy to enable his return.
I like the idea of having one of those guys just thinking about the most trivial stupidity, and you get to give him the answer (like a chad paladin who’d died JUST after being asked a dumb riddle) and you tell him the answer, and it’s the most weird-ass “ascension”. Like, there’s no big reveal, no curse, unless maybe you got a dumber party member who now tries to figure out why the answer works, and you may even get this nee chad-bro lesser god on your side or against you according to if he wanted you or not to give him the answer…
Excellent video as always!👍
Warlock invocation: greater
Eldritch contemplation
Your move speed is reduced to half and you can only take one action a round, in return you gain the abilities and resistances of the Grey Philosopher (save determined by your charisma not intelegence)
You can spawn a max of 1d4×Cha mod malice at a rate of 1d3-4(not sure)/round (this is due to the active and malicious nature of invocations, the normal spawn rate is 1d4 and chatisma mod is the measure of a warlocks casting power) and the malice despawn 1d4 rounds after contemplation ends.
Duration: 24 hours (I'm talking 3.5 warlock technically and a manteled invocation like this has a standard duration of 24 hours warlocks only got like 14 invocations total)
Thanks.
dizzank
Personally i would see as an illuminati dnd season. Think about it. The grey philosopher or a table of group grey philosophers running a complex network of schemes to collect enough knowledge for a goal. Using pawns and becaming a shadow government. Doesn't have to be random eldritch thinking. That monster is brilliant for a conspiracy like dnd campain. Your big bad doesn't always has to be a Lich. Love it.❤
I've been binge watching your videos and I've been enjoying the look into ad&d because I pull alot from second edition for my fifth edition games. my question though is where do I get a copy of the creature catalogue?
Discworld-esque idea: the party is tasked by a pink dragon to retrieve the ULTIMATE Joke. Which is of course the topic of the grey philosopher's pomdering. Of course it will turn out to be a bad pun or immature scatological joke that anyone with an INT higher than a 3yo wouldn't find that funny
This reminds me of a philosopher undead you meet in Divinity Original Sin 2. If you talk to him you can challenge him to a battle of wits, which gets so existential that if you lose, your character's head literally explodes and you have to res them.
I remember re-statting this one for 3.5 years ago. I made the philosopher itself a hazard rather than a creature, because it's so passive that only its Malices really needed full stats. The philosopher could be "Disarmed" with either sufficient magical-weapon damage or with a high enough Wisdom or Religion check to out-argue it.
I think an interesting mechsnic for the malices would be having them infect others thoughts more directly, causing effects akin to confusion or crown of madness.
When I think over-thinking that will freeze a person in place, I don't think contemplating on some serious deep secret truth... I think ANXIETY.
Imagine if someone had anxiety So Bad, it killed them, trapped their soul to the spot, their own anxious thoughts taking a life on their own and screwing over any living thing in the vicinity.... Just as anxiety actually does to a person and their loved ones.
You could throw them in an abandoned insane asylum, or in some lost/hidden corner of a massive magic school. A student panicking over an exam so hard, his own thoughts barred him from ever taking the final test.
Death Knell curse? You got epic-level anxiety now too!! Did you close your backpack? Did you leave your oven on before the quest? Does your armor make you look as stupid as you feel? How screwed would you be if you face a rust monster? Do you have a decent backup weapon to your main weapon? Oh god, what if your party of adventurers finds out about that embarrassing thing you did as a kid?!??!!?!?
Bam. Totes more relatable than obsessing over some ancient truth.
I thought it would be really fitting if, instead of malices, there would be a philosopher that spawns Moigno's instead, physical contemplations of this equation they are struggling to determine the solution for, all failures discarded and made into malignant mathematical forces.
When the character doesn't want to remove the Death Knell, you know the curse has begun to affect the PLAYER... ;)
For my campaign, I can see them being the former apostles of the former god of knowledge, trying to piece together why their god was destroyed by their own power. Why is too much power a possibility for a god? How much was too much? How can it be prevented in the future? Honestly this could actually be great for the plot line I have with a Demigod’s anxieties around ascending to godhood. It’d be a more late game part of the campaign but well worth the wait I think.
Thanks for giving me the chance to think about this man!
I got hit by one in a 1980s era Sliders campaign. Just slid on in to a town who was like "yeah, we don't fucking go into that library anymore. You get asked unknowable questions at the door, and a wrong answer is death."
Idk if you’ll ever see this, but I really like your series for this and really appreciate them. You deserve good things
As he takes his final breath, the Grey One let's out a final yell
"THE ONE PIECE! THE ONE PIECE IS REAL!"
This seems like a wonderful Way to put a hint machine into any dungeon. Just have the party come across a room with the philosopher sitting. They merely noticed the party and say. So rare for me to get visitors when I am busy thinking. I have enough time to answer at least three questions. But then I must get back to my contemplations, Existence won't figure itself out. Now what would you like to know. And it can only answer questions about that particular dungeon or the enemies within. But if the parties go to a different dungeon later And get stumped they encounter the same thing. Who literally responds with. What a surprised meeting you again, I guess it is a small world after all. If you have any questions about this place I am More than happy to answer but again I can only answer three questions, For it is very tiring To split my mind between my contemplations and the mortal rows.
Think this us a great monster to psychologically mess with the plauers, maybe homebrew that it can cast message to speak to them, lure it in to its dungeon and spook them into giving it clues; would make a great plot-twist quest giver that turns out is really evil and youve been helping it unravel that mystery the whole time
This is... _so_ perfect for the campaign I'm working on. It doesn't hurt either that I've been reading _Lockwood and Co._ lately.
The philosopher could turn into an Allip after discovering the secret, which immediately prolongs the encounter.
I run d&d in a fallout inspired setting.
So an idea I might do, that it is an internet obssesed dude who was obssesed with something- powerscaling a silly anime, theorizing about the MCU..
and he mutter d&d rethorics.
"DBS is mid" and to people of the fallout it sound mysteriouse and they make a cult behind him
I would add one thing, not sure if its a correction because I'm not sure what you were saying with never to be heard from again. But the creature actually appeared in (and the nice colored artwork you use is from) the Mystara Monstrous Compendium (which was in large part just the 2e version of the Creature Catalog with some monsters missing and some new ones added and nice colored artwork). I only know this because a- I'm obsessed with bestiaries for games I play in and don't play in and b - Creature Catalog and, by extension, the Mystara Compendium are some of my favorite monster books of all time. And on that note, thank you for converting this guy, I've always loved the Gray Philosopher and the extra ideas you gave for higher level parties is VERY inspiring!
Combine a Gray Philosopher with a Riddle Dragon. That would be interesting.
Kinda wish the malices were a swarm
That’s a cool idea!
I'd like to imagine two scholars, brothers. Over the years one becomes mad turning into a philosopher. While the other desperate to "save" him goes down the road of becoming a lich. For 100's of years he trys to help his brother eventually reaching out to a party with a disguise. Only after the party helps him, he tells his story and hands over his phylactery telling them to destroy it so they might both rest.