I appreciate the BMW->BMW EV comparison. Other people can compare it to Tesla or whatever, but this is a much rarer look from an actual BMW expert. Thanks for sharing!
Yes, this. This A-A comparison from existing "customer" is very important. You need to understand what a product tries to be and what expectations are and review based on that and not just do comparison between A-T.
I dare to say most people buying i4 have never driven any M3 of any kind. But they probably are driving the latest 3 series, 5 series or lets say like X3. So its a same-same, just electric. And thats me too. Jumping from 530e to i4 M50.
It's terrific Munro Live shared this thoughtful and articulate technical comparison by Nick Szczotka whose interest in cars clearly goes beyond that of people who just want a reliable transportation appliance. EV reliability and power are important, but so is driver engagement. This is another enlightening video from Munro Live with very good camera work.
This has to be the best driving review ever on Munro. You are a natural presenter able to articulate the technical aspects extremely well. Huge kudos Nik! I found the comments about the actual benefits of integrating steering, traction control and power really interesting. I wonder if they are using torque vectoring to any extent?
Agree 100%. Nick is charming and VERY capable of talking without any stutterings and hickups, like he had that prepared and learned all by heart. Loved every piece of it even though I am not very interested in that car and watched that till the very end. Really, really good. Bring Nick more often.
@@tomsixsix Only golf carts and forklifts from the 20C use brushed motors. All EVs use 3 phase synchronous motors. The i4 uses two induction motors. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_motor
I think it's totally ridiculous. It's like painting a picture of a horse on the sides of an ICE vehicle because drivers miss those days of horse and cart. Same with adding artificial sounds to an EV totally ridiculous.
I hesitate to declare any new car design as "ugly" until I give it some time to grow on me, but I can't see how anyone would look at the front end of these two vehicles (6:38) and not agree that the M3 front end is WAY more attractive. E46 was damn good looking, but E90 is when BMW nailed it. Their change for the sake of change since then has been a mistake.
I actually like it. It took a little bit of time to get used to it but when I look at it, I get hawk or falcon vibes. While it's not as definitive as the Alfa Romeo "hawk" front, I prefer the BMW front.
Good work, Nick ! I’ve had M50 now for 5 months. Love the car. Agree fully with your findings. Range is sufficient. It can drive easily 400 km in summertime.
Thank you. Good to see more of Munro’s talented team being utilized for the TH-cam channel. Great insights, like the relationship between between steering input and available power for example. I was also surprised to hear that BMW was using a brushed motor. Please keep up to good work.
Good review, but two thoughts: 1. The weight distribution. Rear bias is actually better, due to accelerative traction and turn in. A rear bias reduces initial turn in understeer. Race cars and most exotic performance cars have a significant rear bias. BTW, your E92 has the same 2% shift, but to the front - it’s 52/48%. You argued that the front comes up under acceleration - YES, that’s because the back goes down, and this is where your driving wheels are! 2. My honest opinion is that if you want to appreciate a car, you need to drive it for at least a week, with an open mind and trying to get some entertainment from the car. This way, I’d normally even start to appreciate some cheap rentals during a vacation trip. EVERY car has a soul. You saying it doesn’t have any just shows you didn’t bother to figure out…
No Drifting !!!! I was waiting until the end for it. Anyway, welcome to Nick Shotka, very nice review of both BMW. 11:00 Why not displaying the power energy when doing the acceleration? 11:20 May be BMW should lower the front for the launch mode, like the Tesla Plaid mode launch. 12:20 I would certainly turn of this bad wheel bearing noise Sound. Well, this new BMW EV i4 is what BMW should had build 10 years ago following the BMW ActiveE electronaut. Since the 1972 BMW 1602 Elektro-Antrieb, BMW should had keep the BMW body style instead of making the strange looking i3 with an hybrid two cylinder motorcycle engine and tiny tires.
i4 suspension is tuned like a very comfortable GT, i guess front end lift under heavy acceleration is a downside of this. I mean its very very comfortable to drive, but not that sporty at all. I would compare i4 to a 5-series comfort-wise.
7:21 Thanks Nic & Eric for adding that Rufus cartoon insert. I always hated the grills but can’t verbalize why. Also, very brutal on that volume knob thing(was Nic this critical when hired? or Munro staff grooms him that way? 😂 ). Otherwise, great comparison
What makes a BMW unique and enticing is the handling, ride, and steering. That was why I purchased a 745i with the Sport package. I took that car on very winding roads (with the salesman) in Ranch Santa Fe (very quickly) and it handled amazingly! No tire squeal, no slippage. Just glued to the road. It was also wider and had a nicer interior than my previous Mercedes Benz. However, don't buy a BMW without an extended BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty because the acronym "BMW" really stands for "Bust My Wallet" and the maintenance file on my 745i was 4" thick after 11 years of owning it. I think I put my mechanic's kids thru college! Now, I drive a fully loaded 2019 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 in Kona Blue with silver stripe. The most engaging and awesome car I've ever owned!
That's it. I want my 5 year old son to work there at Munro and Associates. You guys drive and own cool vehicles. He owns a Powerwheels Jeep. When you guys do teardowns of kids 12V and 24V ride ons, he'd be right there taking it apart. He's a little week on writing reports but if you use Roblox software he might get it outlined. He would be a great presenter at his level and to talk a lot. He loves transport machinery and would be a good fit there in the car culture part. Maybe a Munro for kids toys would have a huge following based on kids toys and TH-cam channels.
There just is no excuse for the excess weight. It is NOT a converted ICE sedan, BMW spent five years developing a 'shared platform " for their ICE and hybrid and EV models and then designing this compromise mobile on it. Worse still, the supposed benefits of a shared platform are all for BMW's convenience in being able to make them all on one production line and having flexibility to make more of whichever is in demand. The downside is inferior heavy poor handling cars lacking cargo space and so on. They put their own desires ahead of making the best cars they can.
You know that guy is really cool, he is able to tell 2% (I guess 2 front and 2 back, so let's say 4) difference in weight distribution (so mutch so that I don't know if I have to be skeptical about), still I sense on him a little bit of nostalgia over combustion engine, the point of the noise sounding like a failing components is hilarious, as well as the grid in front.
You definitely should test the 40. The i4 edrive 40 has the same range as a Tesla Model 3 LR without an EV platform but with the chassis dynamics of a BMW. Acceleration is only .6 slower but is cheaper than the Tesla. (Do check the Bjorn Nyland channel.)
Love the car, it's not meant to be comparable to to an M3 but rather a 3 or 4 series "M SPORT M40i. Great Job BMW & a sign of good things to come from BMW.
Brushed motors will have a shorter maintenance schedule but not necessarily a shorter life-span. The brushes are a wear item, but my experience with some pretty high quality motors (I'm sure BMW isn't using Harbor Freight motors 🤣) brush maintenance/replacement may be longer than many other of the car's components. If these brushed motors aren't expected to last longer than the rest of the car, the access to check and change the brushes would likely be an easy thing to do (possibly as easy/quick/cheap as an oil change) There are many factors that go into the decision to choose induction (brushed) vs permanent magnet (brushless). Induction motors can be free-wheeled, so for a multi-motored EV you can "turn off" one/some of the motors for extra efficiency when heavy torque isn't needed (highway driving) The permanent magnet motors will alway have extra drag because of the cogging the magnets cause when they turning without power.
Thanks for the great comparison between BMW 5 yr old ICE car and a new EV. At 16:56 what is the 126 degree F reading? EV battery temperature. I have a 2005 Prius with electric steering. I was surprised that the steering has a 90 Amp fuse. Obviously designers wanted reliable steering ... and didn't have communications between steering and computers.
Great review. You should be a car reviewer. I have a 135i coupe which I have had since new (2010) which has hydraulic steering and I still enjoy driving it.
This has brushed motors? This seems to be a wear point in the life of the car. Brushes wear and creat carbon dust and is there a service point mileage wise for replacement? Seems golf carts use brush motors.
@@bondhuis I doubt the rare earth availability is the issue. Rather, inverters are very expensive, on par with the motor itself, and DC-DC transforming or PWM is probably much cheaper. Still, a bizarre choice.
It is extremely excited Synchronous Motor similar to a brushed motor but not exactly the same. Choice was due to be Independence of Rare earth Perm Magnets which are mostly coming from China which OEMs are trying to be too dependent on. Also lesser cost than PM motors
Brushed is not exactly as in commutation brushes in a dc motor. The brushes here are typical of the slipring brush(there is continuous copper ). Brushes are merely used to connect the external 3 phase reluctance windings. Brushes wear more cleaner though,still a 100-200K maintenance item though.
I would love to see Munro Associates do an engineering comparison between the i3 and i4 so we can see the advances BMW have made in EV technology since 2014.
Please please try a model 3 performance. The 0-60 is 3.1s, its 800lbs lighter, has a longer range, larger infotainment size, no button clutter or ugly air vents, and it cost $20,000 less
As a model 3 performance owner since 2020, I'm considering an i4. Initially I was drawn to the Tesla because of the performance you get for your money (even back in 2020). But after a few years of putting up with interior rattles and poor design choices (dashboard reflection in the side windows obscures the side mirrors... wtf) I have to say, the Tesla is the best advertisement for an electric BMW.
@@Bixxlol So you got the white interior? I tell everyone to avoid white interior at all costs. It also has white fabric on the right side of the driver seat that will get dirty. Dark interior is cheaper and doesn't have either of these problems BMWs have plenty of cheap plastic in their interior that will rattle over time. Don't be a victim of grass is greener syndrome. I believe the new upgraded model 3 has a significantly improved interior also. I test drove one and it was significantly quieter and just generally better interior.
@5893MrWilson yeah I have the white interior. I bought some matte CFRP (fake) stick-on covers for the white part of the dashboard, but even they reflect in the windows. I believe the top of the dashboard being situated below the window is the root cause of the issue. As for rattles, I had to take mine back to the service centre a week after delivery because it had rattles from the factory. Tesla wanted to charge me to fix them at the time, but I told them it was a one week old car and they backed down. After they were fixed it has since developed many more rattles, and the drivers side interior B-pillar trim keeps separating from the body. I'm not a fan of deleting the stalks from the refreshed model 3. I actually want more physical buttons. Not less. I also really enjoy driving, so I want a car that prioritises the driving experience. Meanwhile Tesla's focus is set on removing the driver via autonomy. ☹️
It can definitely be engineered to be good, but it easily get's more expensive than just traditional hydraulic if you are designing from scratch and not using the parts bin(s). The 2023 M3 is coming with "M-developed electric power steering with Servotronic." I bet it is cheap when it goes wrong, though being electric - it shouldn't. /s
The new motors are actually brushed electro-magnetic motors. Is Munro Live going to have any thoughts expressed on this design feature? I understand the brush package will be a serviceable item.
Committed BMW owner here…I’m not convinced the company really gets EVs. It’s not a product line that plays to BMWs strengths. I want to be proven wrong.
@@rkan2 I agree. It's just that BMW isn't the first car company that comes to mind when I think about snazzy electronics. I'm also a little disturbed that they appear to have dropped Apple CarPlay. They're not on the list of companies who have signed up for the highly touted upgrade.
10:08 - correction, “brushed motors” = “induction motors” I’m pretty sure u mean. No cars use brushed. Almost everything is 3 phase brushless now, bar huge industrial applications.
It's not induction asynchronous motor. It is an extremely excited Synchronous Motor that is still 3 phase. Uses an external circuit to keep the rotor synchronized with the stator without any use of Permanent Magnets in the rotor
They are required by law to use tires with the load range for the vehicle. So the tires will be rated for the extra weight. They would also have to use springs for the new weight and probably adjust shock valving to match as well. So they definitely have to compensate for the weight.
Nick's comments were very interesting. Especially about the shared platform [EV/ICE] compromise, weight distrbution and power steering vagueness. Also, did he say "brush[ed] motors" ? In a serious application like an electric car? I find that a thoroughly under-whelming choice by BMW.
@@alanmay7929 Because a brushed motor is relatively high maintenance compared to a brush-less motor. Also rare (earth) materials are one of the biggest misnomers going. Rare Earth materials were so called because they were considered rare when they were each discovered. In truth, many so called rare earth materials are quite plentiful in the Earth's crust.
@@ramblerandy2397 i actually know the story about rare earths lol…. Also I think bmw has seriously improved the design of those motors! We are in modern periods which means optimisation is a great thing with new materials and alloys….
@@alanmay7929 Fair enough. I've found that many people who comment on rare earth elements take the name as fact and base any opinion on that. It's nice to find someone who better.
@@ramblerandy2397 mining conditions and impact on the environment are a concern. You need a lot of material and chemicals to extract those 'rare' earth. First world countries don't necessarily want to to that on their home turf. BMW does have sustainability in their charter - find it ironic or not. Besides, there is probably other engineering advantages. It wil be interesting to see when the motors need service.
It is an OK video but definitely not "a treat" imo! A treat is seeing that M3 teardown and compared!! I think you should make some 2nd channel for these review'ish type content. I like the engineering perspective overall, but the reviews just are not comprehensive enough compared to many people who are no engineers! I look up to Bjorn Nyland (Teslabjorn) for best car review content though I'm sure there are others. He actually tests the cars driving them in his 1000km challenges and has a very good eye for demonstrating features of tge cars. Munro review content is just average car review stuff.
Nic is coming from a very analog M3..I used to sell BMWs and remember these M3s fondly...gutless below 5k rpm and then visceral..so I completely understand Nic's detached feeling from the M50. Welcome to the appliance era of cars...I have an M50 on order and my expectations are are a result of comparing the M50 to other EV vehicles and not ICE performance cars. To that end I think the M50 is among the top choices if not the top in its segment
Corey, would you buy a CyberSUV? We have a Model 3 and Model Y and a 2007 Kia Sportage for visitors and dirty hauling. I would love slightly larger but smaller than CyberTruck and less delicate vehicle
The weight is both good and bad. It's not great from a performance aspect, but the adjustable suspension helps mitigate it some. It's good because it's heavy enough to get the full $7500 tax credit in the US.
Pretty strange they still push EVs out that are based on ICE designs instead of native electric designs only, especially now almost 10 years after doing the i3?
Its not strange, it usually cost these companies hundreds of millions to develop a new chassis from scratch and they don't seem to think its necessary.
@@Victor-vj5ds I agree it's not something you do lightly but they already did it once. Maybe they determined it's not worth the cost or maybe people are not ready for new concepts and "old style" stuff sells better.
@@benbaselet2026 I think its entirely do to companies trying to maintain a certain profit share for its investors and if they start burning money to re tool and re design things it may cause some of them to pull out if their no confident in the switch. But Tesla has already proven you can do massive R&D but also make a huge profit on the cars. But honestly, most manufacturers don't want to hire the best people for the job. Look at GM, they built a 9,000 pound EV hummer that somehow manages to be less efficient than a diesel car and less range than most electrics.
2:21 if he wants the ultimate driving machine, he should get himself a Model 3 Performance (or a Plaid). BMW only pays (advertising) people to believe they are. Tesla truly is.
Not a fan of paintjobs that look like they don't have clearcoat, also not a fan of wraps for the same reason. Looks good on something like a tank though, or other tough vehicle, like a Jeep etc.
The weight distribution thing is a weird statement. Plus most of the M cars have something like 52/48 (F/R) which is much worse than a slight rear bias. Apart from that great video.
I appreciate the BMW->BMW EV comparison. Other people can compare it to Tesla or whatever, but this is a much rarer look from an actual BMW expert. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
I wish I had a dozen up votes for this. This is so much more important
Yes, this. This A-A comparison from existing "customer" is very important. You need to understand what a product tries to be and what expectations are and review based on that and not just do comparison between A-T.
I dare to say most people buying i4 have never driven any M3 of any kind. But they probably are driving the latest 3 series, 5 series or lets say like X3.
So its a same-same, just electric.
And thats me too. Jumping from 530e to i4 M50.
It's terrific Munro Live shared this thoughtful and articulate technical comparison by Nick Szczotka whose interest in cars clearly goes beyond that of people who just want a reliable transportation appliance. EV reliability and power are important, but so is driver engagement. This is another enlightening video from Munro Live with very good camera work.
Munro seems to have an unlimited number of multi-talented people working there! Great video.
This has to be the best driving review ever on Munro. You are a natural presenter able to articulate the technical aspects extremely well. Huge kudos Nik!
I found the comments about the actual benefits of integrating steering, traction control and power really interesting. I wonder if they are using torque vectoring to any extent?
Agree 100%. Nick is charming and VERY capable of talking without any stutterings and hickups, like he had that prepared and learned all by heart. Loved every piece of it even though I am not very interested in that car and watched that till the very end. Really, really good. Bring Nick more often.
This guy is very well spoken and knowledgeable. Have him on more often.
Biggest howler ever on Munro - 'brushed motor'!
The opposite of a permanent magnet motor is induction.
@@waynerussell6401 The BMW i4 is using two brushed motors. It is unusual and controversial. What do you mean?
@@tomsixsix Only golf carts and forklifts from the 20C use brushed motors. All EVs use 3 phase synchronous motors. The i4 uses two induction motors.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_motor
What’s ironic about an EV having ‘’any’’ ice type grill is that it accentuates the very aspect of the car that it’s replacing…
I think it's totally ridiculous. It's like painting a picture of a horse on the sides of an ICE vehicle because drivers miss those days of horse and cart.
Same with adding artificial sounds to an EV totally ridiculous.
The Roofus reference is so spot on 😂😂😂 can’t unsee it now
I hesitate to declare any new car design as "ugly" until I give it some time to grow on me, but I can't see how anyone would look at the front end of these two vehicles (6:38) and not agree that the M3 front end is WAY more attractive. E46 was damn good looking, but E90 is when BMW nailed it. Their change for the sake of change since then has been a mistake.
🎓
e46 will forever have a place in my heart as my favorite.
I actually like it. It took a little bit of time to get used to it but when I look at it, I get hawk or falcon vibes. While it's not as definitive as the Alfa Romeo "hawk" front, I prefer the BMW front.
Though after seeing the Tesla interior, I don't see why other automakers still make such atrocious instrument panels. It makes me cringe.
Completely agree and that was BEFORE they pointed out the rear fender flairs. Poorly done.
This guy is a natural presenter, where has Munro been hiding him?
Elvis called. He wants his hair back.
The M3 displacement is 4.0l and not 4.4l. (1:01)
Good work, Nick ! I’ve had M50 now for 5 months. Love the car. Agree fully with your findings. Range is sufficient. It can drive easily 400 km in summertime.
Great job Nick. Loved the candid opinions and I appreciate your perspective on handling and vehicle dynamics.
and now we need a review of Nick's M3
That was spot on! Definitely sounds like failing wheel bearings. 🤣
Informed passion is always a pleasure.
And a nice respite from all the construction techniques. Bring out the love more often!
Thank you. Good to see more of Munro’s talented team being utilized for the TH-cam channel. Great insights, like the relationship between between steering input and available power for example. I was also surprised to hear that BMW was using a brushed motor. Please keep up to good work.
Good review, but two thoughts:
1. The weight distribution. Rear bias is actually better, due to accelerative traction and turn in. A rear bias reduces initial turn in understeer. Race cars and most exotic performance cars have a significant rear bias. BTW, your E92 has the same 2% shift, but to the front - it’s 52/48%. You argued that the front comes up under acceleration - YES, that’s because the back goes down, and this is where your driving wheels are!
2. My honest opinion is that if you want to appreciate a car, you need to drive it for at least a week, with an open mind and trying to get some entertainment from the car. This way, I’d normally even start to appreciate some cheap rentals during a vacation trip. EVERY car has a soul. You saying it doesn’t have any just shows you didn’t bother to figure out…
Excellent analysis. Both the good and bad identified and explained. Thanks
🎓
This cannot be a real BMW, I’m confident I heard a turn signal in use at the 15:00 mark, that’s just unheard of with this brand.
I think that's a manufacturer defect that needs to be fixed.
Appreciate Nick comparing these two BMWs and giving credit where it is due to Tesla's offerings and its charging network.
Brushed motors? Seriously? Well I can tell you whats due for a service pretty soon.
And THIS is why anyone considering EV’s need to better understand how the EV is constructed. Panel gaps and luxury appointments just don’t matter…
Brushed are generally DC motors right but EV has IPMS motors rights 3 phase AC
Many major Autos still use brushed, and they can be reliable
@@brandonv8721 For starters and seat adjusters.
Still more reliable than BMW rod bearings ahahahahaha :D
Another great video! Wow, everyone at your company is doing a really great job creating videos and also explaining everything in detail! :)
No Drifting !!!!
I was waiting until the end for it. Anyway, welcome to Nick Shotka, very nice review of both BMW.
11:00 Why not displaying the power energy when doing the acceleration?
11:20 May be BMW should lower the front for the launch mode, like the Tesla Plaid mode launch.
12:20 I would certainly turn of this bad wheel bearing noise Sound.
Well, this new BMW EV i4 is what BMW should had build 10 years ago following the BMW ActiveE electronaut.
Since the 1972 BMW 1602 Elektro-Antrieb, BMW should had keep the BMW body style
instead of making the strange looking i3 with an hybrid two cylinder motorcycle engine and tiny tires.
i4 suspension is tuned like a very comfortable GT, i guess front end lift under heavy acceleration is a downside of this. I mean its very very comfortable to drive, but not that sporty at all.
I would compare i4 to a 5-series comfort-wise.
7:21 Thanks Nic & Eric for adding that Rufus cartoon insert. I always hated the grills but can’t verbalize why. Also, very brutal on that volume knob thing(was Nic this critical when hired? or Munro staff grooms him that way? 😂 ). Otherwise, great comparison
What makes a BMW unique and enticing is the handling, ride, and steering. That was why I purchased a 745i with the Sport package. I took that car on very winding roads (with the salesman) in Ranch Santa Fe (very quickly) and it handled amazingly! No tire squeal, no slippage. Just glued to the road. It was also wider and had a nicer interior than my previous Mercedes Benz. However, don't buy a BMW without an extended BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty because the acronym "BMW" really stands for "Bust My Wallet" and the maintenance file on my 745i was 4" thick after 11 years of owning it. I think I put my mechanic's kids thru college! Now, I drive a fully loaded 2019 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 in Kona Blue with silver stripe. The most engaging and awesome car I've ever owned!
Good presentation gentlemen :)
This young fellow should be a lot more on our screens! Very nice!
For a young guy Nic really knows his cars. What an asset to Munro. Keep your 4.4 V8 an absolute classic.
4.0 V8, the GTS was 4.4.
12:21 I seriously hope you can turn the noise stuff off?
That's it. I want my 5 year old son to work there at Munro and Associates. You guys drive and own cool vehicles. He owns a Powerwheels Jeep. When you guys do teardowns of kids 12V and 24V ride ons, he'd be right there taking it apart. He's a little week on writing reports but if you use Roblox software he might get it outlined. He would be a great presenter at his level and to talk a lot. He loves transport machinery and would be a good fit there in the car culture part. Maybe a Munro for kids toys would have a huge following based on kids toys and TH-cam channels.
The i4 is the more attractive car looking at them side by side. I like the new look
It is made to look better for most people. I'm not most people, it is just meh.
Its really ugly, maybe you need new glasses boomer
Well done review/look! Seems very honest from a personal stance.
There just is no excuse for the excess weight. It is NOT a converted ICE sedan, BMW spent five years developing a 'shared platform " for their ICE and hybrid and EV models and then designing this compromise mobile on it.
Worse still, the supposed benefits of a shared platform are all for BMW's convenience in being able to make them all on one production line and having flexibility to make more of whichever is in demand. The downside is inferior heavy poor handling cars lacking cargo space and so on. They put their own desires ahead of making the best cars they can.
🧂
I have 2011 E92 M3 and love it. :D
Good choice for the few who appreciate it.
The way those menus navigate. 🤢 10:36
This guy tells it like he sees it. Thank you!
I didn’t like the look either at first but I actually really liking the large grill now
It's great.
Thanks Nick and Cory for this excellent comparison video.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
YES!!! It looks like a friggin beaver with that front, or like Tow Mater from Cars.
You know that guy is really cool, he is able to tell 2% (I guess 2 front and 2 back, so let's say 4) difference in weight distribution (so mutch so that I don't know if I have to be skeptical about), still I sense on him a little bit of nostalgia over combustion engine, the point of the noise sounding like a failing components is hilarious, as well as the grid in front.
You definitely should test the 40. The i4 edrive 40 has the same range as a Tesla Model 3 LR without an EV platform but with the chassis dynamics of a BMW. Acceleration is only .6 slower but is cheaper than the Tesla. (Do check the Bjorn Nyland channel.)
Good hands on knowledge, see if he wants to do more reviews, he's a natural!
More to come!
@@MunroLive Lot's more with Nik please.
Love the car, it's not meant to be comparable to to an M3 but rather a 3 or 4 series "M SPORT M40i. Great Job BMW & a sign of good things to come from BMW.
Isn't it having a brushed motor a bad thing? Doesn't that shorten it's lifespan compared to brushless?
At least it doesn't have disintegrating connecting rod bearings like BMW's ICE engines!
Brushed motors will have a shorter maintenance schedule but not necessarily a shorter life-span. The brushes are a wear item, but my experience with some pretty high quality motors (I'm sure BMW isn't using Harbor Freight motors 🤣) brush maintenance/replacement may be longer than many other of the car's components. If these brushed motors aren't expected to last longer than the rest of the car, the access to check and change the brushes would likely be an easy thing to do (possibly as easy/quick/cheap as an oil change)
There are many factors that go into the decision to choose induction (brushed) vs permanent magnet (brushless). Induction motors can be free-wheeled, so for a multi-motored EV you can "turn off" one/some of the motors for extra efficiency when heavy torque isn't needed (highway driving) The permanent magnet motors will alway have extra drag because of the cogging the magnets cause when they turning without power.
Thanks for the great comparison between BMW 5 yr old ICE car and a new EV. At 16:56 what is the 126 degree F reading? EV battery temperature.
I have a 2005 Prius with electric steering. I was surprised that the steering has a 90 Amp fuse. Obviously designers wanted reliable steering ... and didn't have communications between steering and computers.
🤗 THANKS CORY, NICK, and ERIC … FOR DOING…a very authentic comparison by a real BMW enthusiast 😎👍😍😍😍
Great review. You should be a car reviewer. I have a 135i coupe which I have had since new (2010) which has hydraulic steering and I still enjoy driving it.
Electric steering in my VW Golf R 2019, is GREAT, tight, feedback, not numb, very tight
This has brushed motors? This seems to be a wear point in the life of the car. Brushes wear and creat carbon dust and is there a service point mileage wise for replacement? Seems golf carts use brush motors.
I was very surprised at this too. I can understand the supply chain challenges with rare earth motors, but this feels archaic.
@@bondhuis I doubt the rare earth availability is the issue. Rather, inverters are very expensive, on par with the motor itself, and DC-DC transforming or PWM is probably much cheaper. Still, a bizarre choice.
It is extremely excited Synchronous Motor similar to a brushed motor but not exactly the same. Choice was due to be Independence of Rare earth Perm Magnets which are mostly coming from China which OEMs are trying to be too dependent on. Also lesser cost than PM motors
Brushed is not exactly as in commutation brushes in a dc motor.
The brushes here are typical of the slipring brush(there is continuous copper ). Brushes are merely used to connect the external 3 phase reluctance windings. Brushes wear more cleaner though,still a 100-200K maintenance item though.
I would love to see Munro Associates do an engineering comparison between the i3 and i4 so we can see the advances BMW have made in EV technology since 2014.
This tells me everything I need to know about BMWs future.
It tells absolutely nothing about BMW future lol….. this is not their dedicated EV platform, wait till they make it before making any judgments!!!
@@alanmay7929 Yeah, the competition is coming... ;-) /S
@@StormyDog that’s what she said lol………..
@@alanmay7929 In 10 years BMW will make something that could compete with somethin today. They we have to wait for their other new thing!
Please please try a model 3 performance. The 0-60 is 3.1s, its 800lbs lighter, has a longer range, larger infotainment size, no button clutter or ugly air vents, and it cost $20,000 less
As a model 3 performance owner since 2020, I'm considering an i4. Initially I was drawn to the Tesla because of the performance you get for your money (even back in 2020). But after a few years of putting up with interior rattles and poor design choices (dashboard reflection in the side windows obscures the side mirrors... wtf) I have to say, the Tesla is the best advertisement for an electric BMW.
@@Bixxlol So you got the white interior? I tell everyone to avoid white interior at all costs. It also has white fabric on the right side of the driver seat that will get dirty. Dark interior is cheaper and doesn't have either of these problems
BMWs have plenty of cheap plastic in their interior that will rattle over time. Don't be a victim of grass is greener syndrome.
I believe the new upgraded model 3 has a significantly improved interior also. I test drove one and it was significantly quieter and just generally better interior.
@5893MrWilson yeah I have the white interior. I bought some matte CFRP (fake) stick-on covers for the white part of the dashboard, but even they reflect in the windows. I believe the top of the dashboard being situated below the window is the root cause of the issue.
As for rattles, I had to take mine back to the service centre a week after delivery because it had rattles from the factory. Tesla wanted to charge me to fix them at the time, but I told them it was a one week old car and they backed down. After they were fixed it has since developed many more rattles, and the drivers side interior B-pillar trim keeps separating from the body.
I'm not a fan of deleting the stalks from the refreshed model 3. I actually want more physical buttons. Not less.
I also really enjoy driving, so I want a car that prioritises the driving experience. Meanwhile Tesla's focus is set on removing the driver via autonomy. ☹️
There is an infrared camera for your face... It is used in the traffic jam mode... You only need to touch the wheel when the yellow flashes...
Munro, give us your engineer's opinion as to whether there's a possible solution to improve steering wheel feedback from electric power steering?
yes, its called Porsche
It can definitely be engineered to be good, but it easily get's more expensive than just traditional hydraulic if you are designing from scratch and not using the parts bin(s).
The 2023 M3 is coming with "M-developed electric power steering with Servotronic."
I bet it is cheap when it goes wrong, though being electric - it shouldn't. /s
My 2018 Tesla Model 3 RWD has been fantastic, handling better than my 2007 BMW 335i 6MT with sport pkg. At 3700 lbs. it’s comparable to my BMW.
I hope you guys will take a closer look at the brushed motors.
6:54 - Those aren't kidneys, they are NOSTRILS! 🤣🤣
The new motors are actually brushed electro-magnetic motors. Is Munro Live going to have any thoughts expressed on this design feature? I understand the brush package will be a serviceable item.
That rumble from the drive train reminds me of an electric trolley!! Great review!!
Nick didn't seem douchey as his hairstyle would have suggested. I appreciate the experienced feedback.
Nick and I are on the same page with his comments. I would take his M3 with the V8 over the M50 and I luv electric cars!
He’s very comfortable in front of the camera 👍🏼
Like this guy!
Cool car Nick. Would love to have you do a drive in your M3 one day and maybe compare it to Tesla Model 3 Performance as well. Thanks!
Wow, he must really love that 2010 M3. MPG is 16.
Love comes from the heart, not the wallet
The eqs is 3.7. Its a lot heavier. So 3.5 should be conservative for this. However, manufacturers ramp speed however they want.
Good job reviewing, Nick!
The range might not be the best, but it charges very fast
Committed BMW owner here…I’m not convinced the company really gets EVs. It’s not a product line that plays to BMWs strengths. I want to be proven wrong.
They have no choice though - just like everyone else.
@@rkan2 I agree. It's just that BMW isn't the first car company that comes to mind when I think about snazzy electronics. I'm also a little disturbed that they appear to have dropped Apple CarPlay. They're not on the list of companies who have signed up for the highly touted upgrade.
I agree, I have an i3 and it’s common to hear owners say they bought an i3 despite it being a BMW
10:08 - correction, “brushed motors” = “induction motors” I’m pretty sure u mean. No cars use brushed. Almost everything is 3 phase brushless now, bar huge industrial applications.
It's not induction asynchronous motor. It is an extremely excited Synchronous Motor that is still 3 phase. Uses an external circuit to keep the rotor synchronized with the stator without any use of Permanent Magnets in the rotor
VW Golf R STICK practical and superb handling and fun
EV are great. The thrill of pulling the e92 M3 V8 motor to 8400rpm is a blast.
Thats what i was thinking with my E46 😂
lol it's like he's trying to sell us his M3 in the beginning of this video
Have they compensated for the weight. Are the tires heavy duty for longevity?
They are required by law to use tires with the load range for the vehicle. So the tires will be rated for the extra weight. They would also have to use springs for the new weight and probably adjust shock valving to match as well. So they definitely have to compensate for the weight.
This seems like Marketing speak on an engineering channel.
Please do the teardown of Lucid Air. I am very excited about its packaging and tech.
Very interesting! I would really appreciate to get his impressions of the model S plaid, in the same kind of manner.
8:31 Our only question for Nick: “Which car is the better Babe Magnet?!?!” 😍
Awesome idea for a video!
I like your M3!
Nick's comments were very interesting. Especially about the shared platform [EV/ICE] compromise, weight distrbution and power steering vagueness. Also, did he say "brush[ed] motors" ? In a serious application like an electric car? I find that a thoroughly under-whelming choice by BMW.
How is the motors choice by bmw underwhelming!? They have always tried to stay away from rare materials.
@@alanmay7929 Because a brushed motor is relatively high maintenance compared to a brush-less motor. Also rare (earth) materials are one of the biggest misnomers going. Rare Earth materials were so called because they were considered rare when they were each discovered. In truth, many so called rare earth materials are quite plentiful in the Earth's crust.
@@ramblerandy2397 i actually know the story about rare earths lol…. Also I think bmw has seriously improved the design of those motors! We are in modern periods which means optimisation is a great thing with new materials and alloys….
@@alanmay7929 Fair enough. I've found that many people who comment on rare earth elements take the name as fact and base any opinion on that. It's nice to find someone who better.
@@ramblerandy2397 mining conditions and impact on the environment are a concern. You need a lot of material and chemicals to extract those 'rare' earth. First world countries don't necessarily want to to that on their home turf. BMW does have sustainability in their charter - find it ironic or not. Besides, there is probably other engineering advantages. It wil be interesting to see when the motors need service.
Around 11:40. Front-end lift is mostly caused by the instant torque, my friend. You're not seeing the bull in the China shop.
It is an OK video but definitely not "a treat" imo! A treat is seeing that M3 teardown and compared!! I think you should make some 2nd channel for these review'ish type content.
I like the engineering perspective overall, but the reviews just are not comprehensive enough compared to many people who are no engineers! I look up to Bjorn Nyland (Teslabjorn) for best car review content though I'm sure there are others. He actually tests the cars driving them in his 1000km challenges and has a very good eye for demonstrating features of tge cars.
Munro review content is just average car review stuff.
Nic is coming from a very analog M3..I used to sell BMWs and remember these M3s fondly...gutless below 5k rpm and then visceral..so I completely understand Nic's detached feeling from the M50. Welcome to the appliance era of cars...I have an M50 on order and my expectations are are a result of comparing the M50 to other EV vehicles and not ICE performance cars. To that end I think the M50 is among the top choices if not the top in its segment
Corey, would you buy a CyberSUV? We have a Model 3 and Model Y and a 2007 Kia Sportage for visitors and dirty hauling. I would love slightly larger but smaller than CyberTruck and less delicate vehicle
BMW 3 series with V8, Love it!
Tesla's Autopilot can change lanes almost immediately. And can be pretty aggressive too.
The weight is both good and bad. It's not great from a performance aspect, but the adjustable suspension helps mitigate it some. It's good because it's heavy enough to get the full $7500 tax credit in the US.
If you build an EV that is not strikingly better than the comparable ICE version, you botched it.
To be fair, that e92 M3 has no comparison.
Pretty strange they still push EVs out that are based on ICE designs instead of native electric designs only, especially now almost 10 years after doing the i3?
Its not strange, it usually cost these companies hundreds of millions to develop a new chassis from scratch and they don't seem to think its necessary.
@@Victor-vj5ds I agree it's not something you do lightly but they already did it once. Maybe they determined it's not worth the cost or maybe people are not ready for new concepts and "old style" stuff sells better.
@@benbaselet2026 I think its entirely do to companies trying to maintain a certain profit share for its investors and if they start burning money to re tool and re design things it may cause some of them to pull out if their no confident in the switch. But Tesla has already proven you can do massive R&D but also make a huge profit on the cars.
But honestly, most manufacturers don't want to hire the best people for the job. Look at GM, they built a 9,000 pound EV hummer that somehow manages to be less efficient than a diesel car and less range than most electrics.
Not stick, it's not driving, it's going along for the roll
the old grill looks insanely better. why fix something that's not broken?
The chinese market wants bigger grills and so it is
2:21 if he wants the ultimate driving machine, he should get himself a Model 3 Performance (or a Plaid). BMW only pays (advertising) people to believe they are. Tesla truly is.
Not a fan of paintjobs that look like they don't have clearcoat, also not a fan of wraps for the same reason. Looks good on something like a tank though, or other tough vehicle, like a Jeep etc.
Agree - though there are some good looking paints which are not that glossy.
Great review. A normal journalist doesnt dig this deep.
You can tell he is a bmw expert, reminds me of Jay Leno
Wow! Great Video! Great Job Nick!
Thanks!
"Out of spec review" did a long "assistant " test on hard road. Recomend to watch that.
The weight distribution thing is a weird statement. Plus most of the M cars have something like 52/48 (F/R) which is much worse than a slight rear bias. Apart from that great video.