I own a car repair garage 30yrs. I am level 4 EV qualified. We have been a member of HEVRA for 9 months. I have stripped and repaired a leaf battery HEVRA helped us all the way through it with correct information I would do one now without an issue. We are now at the EV stage where we were when fuel injection first came out! HEVRA are here to “hold our hands” through in depth EV repairs which I explain this to our EV customers but you’ll find a lot of garages don’t want to make “false promises” and let the customer down. You going to have a look around at the moment but 2/3yrs from now you’ll find a LOT more HEVRA members will be a lot more confident. I’m on a training course with cleverly EV early April and hands on course inc Tesla I actually think your near us by your accent Cleckheaton area.
As you know you need equipment to monitor the battery after an accident and have to store the car away from other cars etc etc ,who's gonna put the expense in if they already have enough ice work ,as for removing batteries, thats another story ,you'll only make a mistake once and its game over ,a German ev expert found that out when he fell on an open ev battery 🔋 brown bread and they used the tethering lead to retrieve his body.
A bloke rang me up the other night and said "I'm the dandy highwayman who you're too scared to mention, I spend my cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention!" I tried to tell him he had the wrong number, but he was adamant.
It was about EV maintenance and reliability being worse than ICE and links to the consumer report that stated EV were 80 % less reliable than ICE. Your reply was . What report ? There's little to go wrong with them . The report says differently so I'm actually shocked you were unaware of it . Google it !!.
I bought a Corsa e 20 plate , and for 2 years it was fantastic, however it went in for a service and software update and when I had it back it had lost 25 miles of range , I drove it for a few months and it didn't regain it's lost 25 miles , I took it back to the vauxhall main dealer who kept it for 14 weeks changing this part and that ... . Triggers broom ... When I eventually had it back the service manager told me if it's not right now , don't bother coming back as we don't know what's wrong with it !!!!!! I opened a case with Vauxhall head office .. who were absolutely useless I lost all confidence in electric cars because in my experience it couldn't be fixed . I am now back to a diesel.
You've gotten rid of it now so it doesn't matter, but... From the sound of it, it was a software fault after the update, causing it to misread the battery charge. Laptops (wildly different I know, but bear with me) can misread their battery charge sometimes. It probably just needed a software recalibration or maybe a clean install of the update to fix it. Doubt any physical parts needed replacing. Hopefully you still have some confidence in EVs and can find one you like again in the future :)
Heard much the same with ICE cars. They don't call them lemons for nothing. It happens, usually you need to drag them through the courts to get an acceptable outcome.
Not E. V related but my brother-in-law was an independent Jaguar specialist (now retired) . When he started to deal with post 2005 Jags, cost him £17,000 (15 years ago) for the computer to read the codes and be able to do things like reset the brake calipers on electric hand brake models etc. As well as other stuff that could only be done at that time with this specialist kit plus a £4,000 per year subscription for the software updates to keep current with all models.
We're in Sheffield and had a charging problem with a 2015 Zoe. Took it to local Renault dealer, who quoted around £4,500 to fix the fault. Had the car taken a mile down the road to Mam Tor Automotive, a HEVRA garage. They stripped the car down, diagnosed the actual problem and fixed it for £1,300. Luckily we'd taken out an extended warranty, and they paid for it.
Been a member of HEVRA for over 5 years, on a technical level they support members with highest possible professionalism.. We repair EVs, not just servicing and MOTs. We also repair ICE cars, most traditional garages prefer to do easy money jobs ie, brakes, servicing. We get ICE customers calling us telling us other garages ‘haven’t got the equipment’ to carry out more tricky work, often after carrying out an MOT and failing the vehicle, then being unprepared to complete the job. Ultimately garages are selective about what work they wish to carry out. The garage trade is experiencing huge shortages in qualified technicians. Many are leaving the trade and youngsters are just not interested. It’s not an easy job anymore. We wish more garages would embrace EV’s, however without the technical support of HEVRA we would not be able to carry out some of the EV repairs we have done over the past few years.
My son is a vw trained mechanic and he advises people to go to a specialist independent garage not a main dealer. The stories he tells of the service provided by some main dealers is shocking.
That's why Main Dealers are called Stealerships by Mechanics in the US! I think that term is accurate here in the UK too, I take my cars to the main dealer to be serviced and repaired out of necessity (new car every 3 years warranty only covers the main Stealer). I had a Nissan X-trail that I managed to get a full refund from Nissan direct after 13 months, It was in the garage 18 times for various different repairs in that 13 month period and most of those times were for an aircon fault. When you first started the car, the aircon worked just fine. Approx 10 - 15 mins after the car had been running, if the car was moving forward the aircon worked fine, stop at a set of lights or a roundabout and the aircon stopped working. Every time I took it back after they "fixed" it, it was still faulty. It turned out they never once took it for a test drive to check. Finally after about 6 months of this I asked to speak to the tech who worked on it, he said they just said that the aircon worked every time he tried it, it worked fine. I asked what his work order said and he showed me, the service desk just had "check aircon works and repair if necessary". I took him for a 20 min test drive and sure enough the aircon stopped working, he immediately said "i know what that is but its a long repair because we had a bulletin come through from Nissan about it. This then took around 4 1/2 months to repair as the part was in short supply from Nissan Japan because of the bulletin issued back 6 months before my car was even sold to me! I found out afterwards that the Stealership had charged Nissan Warranty about 2/3rds the new price of the car for all the work they had to do to my "Friday afternoon" car!
Apparently Norway has plenty of electricity - thanks to their investment in hydro - electric power stations. And if any Norwegian wants to buy an ICE motor car, then they have to write to the Government of Norway and ask permission with reasons to justify their choice.
I bought a Leaf with a broken heater and searched for an EV garage, I came across the HEVRA website, picked the nearest on, which at the time was in Leicester 60 miles away. I took it there and eTech Midlands fixed it with no fuss, and at a good price. Marvellous.
I got rid of my Audi etron because my local Audi main dealer was less than useless. I may have kept it had there been a decent alternative service agent.
I totally understand. I had an Audi RS Etron GT, it spent more time at Caffyns than on the road with one problem after another, so I’ve gone back to a Tesla who seem to have things sorted. Audi certainly don’t!
Perhaps it would help it you read the comments. I said it had many problems, ranging from the tailgate opening by itself whilst away from the car, door mirror not unfolding at all to not charging and many many more. The only servicing which Audi recommend is a two year service which in my opinion is expensive for what is done. Most of the problems stemmed from the software which was the MMI system. Most times I took it in they said it seemed fine, but the problem was when you fault find the system throws up thousands of error messages which make it impossible to find the one you are looking for. So no I’m not taking anybody for a fool unless you want to wear the hat of course!
Bigger concern is that there is a shortage of technicians going into the job, Main dealers are only taking on apprentices to meet tax/penalty levels, not enough to cover the numbers leaving the trade. plus they dont pay them enough while training ( and in the early years)
Very valuable information. It has changed my thinking about going for a few year old Tesla. I'll stick with my in-7-year warranty MG for the time being.
I have had a nissan ev for coming up to 5 years now and have had a absolutely no problem with it. To celebrate the 5 th anniversary I thought I would get the car some sort of present. The trouble is I don't know where is the best place to attach the leaf blower.
@@Hello_there_obi why should I sell it. It has been very good for the family, everybody enjoys driving it, I can charge at home, the solar panels make it even cheaper and hardly ever have to go to a filling station. That's reality
You’ve hit the nail on the head with this repair problem. Another reason for people being reluctant to buy EV the average person can’t afford a new car with warranty and an 5-8 year old one with 60-90k miles on the clock is the norm. People are afraid of a large repair bill from main dealer. Ev will become throw away items like phones and that isn’t good for the environment. I have a Honda E , Honda have stopped making them and il extend the warranty for as long as possible. After that who nows. It’s going to take a brave independent dealer to train and equip for EV.
@@davelowe1977 well 17% of new car sales are currently EVs, so that will already be affecting their business because that's fewer cars they can repair, and it will only get worse for them. That's just common sense as EV sales are only increasing.
@@markianross EV sales aren't increasing though. The market for them is nearly saturated and will worsen as the reality of long-term ownership dawns and when the subsidies end and the fires continue and the insurance becomes unaffordium. Meanwhile, the 2nd hand ICE market goes from strength to strength as people keep reliable and cheap cars on the road.
Even Cleevely say they couldn't survive on EV work only and, given they are so well known, it doesn't bode well for anyone else considering EV repair work.
@@narrowboatlongpod4176 There are other HEVRA registered garages around. Both the guys in my local (village) garage in the Lake District, are HEVRA certified to work on electric vehicles.....
We can and do work with HEVRA on some complicated faults. It's entirely down to any garage to choose the work they do... Try calling a garage and ask them for the cost of a head gasket replacement on a common car. You'll find a lot of garages no longer want to get involved in that kind of work. It's not an EV specific problem, but there are less garages to choose from
Read the front page of HEVRAs site. ALL our garage members can diagnose and repair. Ones I spoke to didn’t have the equipment. So clearly couldn’t even attempt.
@ElectricVehicleMan I am in the land down under, so no use for you, but the same issue is occurring here. Part of the split is OBD access for emissions is no longer required and for some reason, aftermarket scan tools are really hit and miss at the moment for electric cars. The Tesla module not including cables is $700 a year, but the kit for electric and battery diagnoses is closer to $10,000 + yearly costs. If EV's are as reliable as claimed and rarely brake, then the economics of supplying a full service is woeful. Meaning less dealers that will support EV. Often with memberships all the workshops join as it looks good on their website, servicing Green stuff... tick, and are often incentivised by government which often makes the process worse not better. Anyway, I going to get skilled and invest as I want to have the work no one else wants, mostly because I've made a career out of that up to now and been quite successful.
I currently own a 2016 Model S 85D. I bought it from a used car dealer with 232,000 miles on the clock. I have a friend with a local garage and he’s fine looking at my EVs. He’s looked after my Zoes, Kangoo ZE, and the Model S. I guess he is used to working on all sorts as he happily fixes Jensen Interceptors, TVRs, MGBs, Chevette HSRs etc My Model S has now covered 259,000 miles and been pretty straight forward to look after. Tesla Bristol have had it in at very little cost to me apart from when they did the MCU2 upgrade and David has done other bits like lower front arms. (Tesla were the cheapest for the parts).
Had similar experience down here in the south east. Bought an EV after huge amounts of research, using your channel and many others, so I was pretty much expert by the time I bought it. Went to my nearest HEVRA garage, spoke "ev" at them and despite many certificates, including from HEVRA all over their wall they had no idea what I was talking about! He didn't even understand what HEVRA was when said as a word not the letters, bizarre! Ended up going to main dealer to be ripped off instead. Cleevely coming this year and there is another HEVRA place nearby but I'm not optimistic after hearing about your experience. This is no joke and sadly I can't think of one...I'll get back to you....😂👍
Hi EVM, getting any car fixed these days is a nightmare. Main dealers - forget it, they are useless! I’m 58, and am used to getting under the bonnet. A colleague of mine has a 2009 Golf 1.6TDi, he went to 3 garages who ripped him off and didn’t fix the fault. We fixed it on my drive for 3 hours work and some oven cleaner; yes, oven cleaner. The Golf kept going into limp mode, the problem was carbon build up in the EGR cooler, a pain to get to on the VW 1.6 TDi engine, we jacked up the front to put the car at a backwards angle, removed the front facing EGR pipe, and poured oven cleaner in with a funnel and a short length of garden hose, let it react for 2 hours, then flushed it out with water from a hose. No garage would do this, saying the EGR cooler must be replaced; an absolute bitch of a job that would effectively write the car off. Car is now just fine. Top tip, don’t buy a modern diesel if you do mainly short journeys - they are filthy things! Me? I got a BMW i3 in 2019, love it, faultless in 40k miles, cheap to run, great to drive.
You wouldn’t believe how many people I’ve heard have serious problems with so called emissions technology. Diesel engines were at their best in the late 90’s and early 2000’s as far as longevity and reliability goes. I should know - I still drive them, currently one at 180k and one at 135k miles. Simple servicing and a few repairs to keep them flying along.
@@Jacob-yb6bv Hi Jacob, I completely agree that what breaks modern diesels is the anti pollution technology. Normally aspirated diesels are a dog to drive, they do need a turbo. I guess the problem is that without DPFs and EGR, diesels are really filthy; loads of filthy black smoke, nitrous oxides and toxic particles. I loved the 3 diesels I owned 20 odd years ago, I had a Peugeot 306 1.9 turbo diesel that just ran and ran, not sure I would want one now though, the noise, the vibration, the messy fuelling process, waiting for the glow plugs on cold days, waiting for miles of driving for the cabin heater to put out any heat in the winter.
I had a diesel Fiesta with the same problem (but I guess a less valuable car). No one would touch it.. So I watched a TH-cam video on the fix.. It's about twice as big as the injector job my local garage had just messed up. Decided £192 scrap value was the best option. (It had done 130,000 miles.) I also now own an i3.
Very good point EVM. When all theses ex-company cars or salary sacrifice low cost lease cars come flooding onto the market, I suspect the government thinks there will be a ready market for them. However used car buyers are not going to be queuing up the buy these cars if main dealers are effectively the only option for repairs and servicing.
I live on Shetland and last year I bought a Zoe. I think I took a risk buying a Zoe because of my location. I have a great garage who are set up for EV and who I think will do their very best if my car needed work. If my car needs to go to Renault I have a big problem. It costs up to about £400 for a return journey with my car to the mainland. Just dropping it off would require 2 days off work (14 hour ferry) and to pick it up again another £400 and 2 days if the ferry wasn’t fully booked. It is the same for many ICE cars who don’t have dealerships in Shetland too. I have wondered what the situation would be buying a BYD without a dealership. Would I be no or little worst off being on Shetland? I wonder how well set up Norway are for EV repairs. EV Man I would love to see videos from you in Norway exploring the EV future!
That was a recent news story, UK wide BYD (and the other newcomers) are seriously struggling to provide parts and have a very high write off rate due to the cost of labour. They're working on it, but for now it's a risk to get one.
Last year I was working in Shetland along with local nurse Emma. Her (ICE) Skoda Kodiaq was rear ended and she has been told to take it to Aberdeen for assessor to look at it and give final thumbs up to carry out a repair. It was slight dent on a rear bumper with total cost to repair of less than £500. Our car insurance is so expensive because of laziness and politics within insurance companies, at the end we pay for all repairs they only arrange specialists to carry them out. I drove round your beautiful island in Renault MeganE and done over 2000 miles, never has any charging issues. Last year when prices were introduced on public chargers, I was using mostly AC end in Gilbertson Park and by some reason it was always free (not a penny spent)
Looked at BYD but the nearest place that sells and will service, is a 200mi round trip. If it’s a service and all is well, that’s 200mi. If it needs repair and assuming the car is driveable, it’s 200mi for diagnosis and and at lease another 200mi for repair. If it’s not repairable on one day, that’s 200mi plus two train journeys. And that’s assuming the dealer continues with BYD. Well that put me off a new BYD. An out of warranty BYD, is not even in this galaxy of consideration.
There isn't an EV future....for many many reasons. They were only mandated to destroy legacy car manufacturers and control our every movement. They are total data harvesting devices and, if you've ever connected your phone to the car - the manufacturer will have every single bit of information from that phone. Check out Naomi Blackwell NBTV on the Tube
I am a mechanic and have owned a Leaf and now a brand new MG4. My car has been in the dealership for two weeks with a charging issue. I am not trained on the electric side and would not dream of touching that even if it was out of warranty. Lots of specialist equipment and training required. The thing is good workshops will catch up. Just like you said we all used to deal with points plugs and condensors. Everyone was lost when fuel injection and ECUs came in. The experience and knowledge will trickle through its just going to take time. At the moment out of warranty the dealer is still the best place for a broke EV. That will change in time. There a loads of switched on techs out there who will learn quickly.
I'm the same as you, mechanic with an EV but not trained in the electric side. Don't want to know to be fair. At 60 I'm just waiting out for retirement.
@@iantaylor1172 The major difference being the real and ever present danger of electrocution from 800V dc and dc being the worst. Retired electrician shaking his head at how risky this is in a vehicle as well! not to mention 8000 plus cells to fault in any one of them. ye gods where is this going?
@@Ifitwerks Come on, that's scaremongering. If you take the correct precautions when working on them and treat them with respect, they are perfectly repairable. Same as you do as an electrician surely?? As far as repairing, they are just the same to any good diagnostic tech but it does take learning and some effort. Most don't want to make the effort. 😟
@@kitcht Think of it this way, if you pay for a safety electrical inspection and you have a potentially dangerous situation highlighted to you, would you call that scaremongering, Yes of course a high level of aptitude and training will be needed. Incidentally I am not referring to just repairs, but construction and use also. Finally attitude to risk varies, mine has been shaped by life experience and what I have witnessed, not suitable to document here.
@kitcht When it comes to working with 800 volts DC you DON'T treat that as a normal work situation. Electrocution is a real possibly (assuming you are near the power source end of an EV) and DC electricity is the worst.
Agree with your observations , would love for u to get an old Model S , would make great content and highlight your observations and perhaps solutions , believe would be a popular series of videos from buying to running , fortunately live 40 mile from Cleevely whilst not ideal it’s ok
Actually a very useful video 👍and an important discussion started here. Even some main dealers are not organised. There's a lot if opportunities there for independent garages to take a lead. I'd not hold my breath on government help though. Quite a good read, some useful information and experience below. Well done for the having a go at raising the issues indeed.
Mg4 with 7 years warranty ? Any thoughts as IV been looking at this one. But some comments only says the customer service is not very good ? But always hard what to believe as that might have just been a few cases ? Hmm hard to decide.
Would you buy a 6 year old phone or laptop? I suppose you would if it was at a throw away price and all you needed. I’d buy the laptop if I didn’t mind keeping the power lead plugged in. I wouldn’t buy the phone.
I loved this video, I live in a Central European country and my only option is the dealer. I drive a little Zoe. This car wasn't even for sale in this country through Renault, I bought it in Germany. Now I'm looking to upgrading it, and the point you bring across is very valid. I guess the EV story is that you in a near future we will not own them, but they'll be subscription based and you rent them for a time period based on dynamic pricing. I tried to replace the 40Kw battery for my Zoe and Renault asked me for 20keur/ I can find cheaper 2nd hand cars. This Ev fairy tale is turning out to a nightmare, so no wonder people are not buying EV and going for Hybrids.
2018 Tesla Model S 43k miles - Part 2 - Follow on from earlier today. This is long guys but if you’re thinking of buying a used Tesla Model S you’ll likely be interested. So, I was on my way to Glasgow early morning six weeks ago and behind a wood lorry waiting for a straight to overtake in my super-fast Tesla Model S 75D when I heard this very loud bang. At first, I thought a stone must have been thrown up and hit the windscreen, it was still pretty wet and dark so I couldn’t really see all the screen that well. But a few minutes later I started to feel really cold, it was around four degrees outside. I then realised the bang was an electrical one and that the heater was knackered. From previous experience with Tesla service in Glasgow, you can’t speak to anyone, all done through the App. I could book it in for a diagnostic check, one hour’s labour, £165 plus VAT so £198! Ok, the car was just over five years old, but it had only done 42k miles. This car was around £70K new, would you have bought it expecting the heater to go bang after 42k miles? Tesla Glasgow weren’t really interested when I physically went to speak to them, you get nowhere through the App. One comment I had was that “ they don’t know how much the heater was on during the 42k miles”! Yeah, I really like to spend my winter days and nights sitting in the car to keep warm! Anyway, after a bit of hassling they were actually able to diagnose it over the air. It would need a new PTC heater and fuse, £1500. I think £198 an hour is exorbitant so I decided to look for a cheaper garage that could fix electric cars. Philips garage in Glasgow had good reviews so called them. They said they could do it but that it is difficult getting parts, it took ten days from Tesla, seemingly they come from Holland! I had looked up TH-cam and saw a series of videos on how to replace a PTC heater and fuse on a 2018 Tesla 75D, sent these to Philips Garage and they said, thank you, that would be helpful. Turns out it wasn’t, the PTC heater wasn’t in the place in the videos, after they’d already spent a couple of hours digging. It was to get worse. I was hanging around Glasgow waiting for them to call saying it was fixed. It was dropped off at 9 o’clock, they called at around half three to say they had “good news and bad news”. The good news was that they’d replaced the PTC heater the bad was that they couldn’t replace the fuse as it needed the main battery to be dropped from the car as the fuse was located under the battery, this is a fuse for the heater remember! They didn’t have the specialist equipment needed to drop the battery out safely, it would have to go back to Tesla for that. Cost for Tesla to replace the fuse, three hours labour, £594 plus £48 for a fuse, total £642. As you can imagine my respect for Elon Musk’s and Tesla’s engineering skills went out the window. Have you ever paid £642 to have a fuse replaced! Turns out the Philips garage spotted my front tyres were shot on the inside edge so after a bit of searching I opted for Autotec in Port Glasgow and ended up with four new tyres and a Hunter 4 wheel alignment. Not cheap, but at £1120 was a good bit cheaper than anywhere else. Whilst waiting to get the car booked in at Autotec I noticed a sign saying they did electric car repairs, wasn’t on their website, they’re having it updated. Turns out that the owner Robert actually has two Tesla model S’s himself and a Porsche Taycan. Obviously does well but in fairness Robert’s there with a boilersuit on all week working alongside the six or so mechanics he has. So, could they replace the fuse? They didn’t have the specialist bit of kit to drop the battery, would cost around £3500 Robert reckoned but they would find a way. I asked how long it would take, four hours he thought. Car went in and they got the fuse fitted at a labour rate of £70 plus VAT, total cost of £336. Around half the price of Tesla. A very nice guy is Robert and as he said he looks after around twenty Tesla’s so I’ll be going there in future. Another cautionary note. I had taken out an RAC all singing and dancing warranty, Platinum Plus and Maintenance, for two years (£1000) when I bought the car from Motorclass in Wigan, a pretty useless garage by the way, not at all impressed. In the RAC small print it doesn’t include diagnostics or replacing fuses. Also, they only cover a labour rate of £45 an hour outside London and £65 for London. What planet are they on! To add insult to injury they were only prepared to pay one hour’s labour for the PTC heater replacement. The warranty is a complete rip off, so buyer beware! So, I have to say most of my first year’s sayings have gone down the pan in this one repair and I’m thinking that it may have been a better idea to have gone for say a KIA EV6 with its seven-year warranty and at least I’d still have had a couple of years full warranty left. I guess the reality is, plan for the possibility of spending most, if not all, of the savings you make on running costs on keeping it on the road with quite likely expensive repairs. However, if I get to the end of the first year with no more repairs, I guess I’ve still saved around £1300 compared to running the Volvo and it is a cool car to drive, the acceleration is blistering. So, if you own a Tesla in the Glasgow/ West of Scotland area I’d take it to Robert at Autotec in Port Glasgow. You are right Andy in what you say about the lack of independent garages to take your electric car to be repaired and I wouldn’t blame people for holding back until this improves, as it must, if there is to be mass adoption. As you said, Government grants and/or tax breaks for independent garages to get the training, kit and software needed is definitely the way to go and we need to keep pressing government for this. Looking forward to going to Fully Charged again in Harrogate, hopefully you’ll be there as last year on a panel, you’re a straight talker Andy and speak a lot of sense. Cheers Alan
So again your expecting normal tax payers to subsidize your EV habit? There IS no such thing as Government money- they don't make anything, all they have comes from taxes. You only have to look at the way Westminster council has jacked up the charges on EV parking (80p x 4 hours to £18:60 X4) to see how they view EV's in the future. BTW - the justification for the parking charge increase was given as Whole Life sustainability 🤷♂️
As for your 'first year savings' - how does that work out with such a low mileage car - paying a ton of money for the repair AND £1100 for a set of tyres and that's without the insurance costs that are coming. As a retired business owner I can't see any savings anywhere and then there's depreciation.
@@CosmicSeeker69 Re the government stuff etc. I am a normal tax payer and I think it's being a little pedantic. Re the Westminster Council, I'm sure you're probably right and this does add to the frustration of a lack of a cohesive plan to achieve the transition. I did explain, £575 road tax saving and differential between 2p per mile for electric and 18p per mile for diesel. Repair was expensive which was my point about getting to a point where garages can repair EV's at a similar price to ICE. Tyres: they were lowish when I bought the car which is why I replaced them, about the same cost as the Volvo would have been, nothing to do with it being an electric car. Insurance: my insurance is only £120 more a year than the Volvo was (£450), that's with Admiral multicover. There are still some savings but there would have been a lot more had the heater not gone kaput and, fingers crossed, if I don't have any major repairs next year I would look to be saving around the £2k plus mark. Deprecation: a reasonable point but most of the depreciation is already out of the car when I bought it and as I will hopefully hold on to it for around another three years I take the view that it won't really owe me anything. Also, with a bit of luck there will be more garages able to fix EV's, including Tesla's, at a more affordable price so it may be feasible to keep them on the road. Anyway, each to their own. :)
Right to repair legislation should be improved so that the tools for any job are easily obtainable at sensible prices. EVs really are not rocket science.
I'm really grateful for this video. Getting an ev repaired was something I hadn't even considered, while I've been watching the reviews of the various makes and models available. Many thanks!
12:00 So basically we need Cleevely EV to start setting up / franchising at staging posts across the UK. Could be a good base point for their mobile service to be closer to a home base for those harder to fix issues. I know that wouldn't be cheap but maybe the UK EV community could look to support that though some kind of crowd funding investment in the whole scheme to get it going.
I’ve used cleevely for a couple of years, no problems at all. They now have 5 mobile mechanics looking after all types of EV’s. Surely they would be the best option, they could even sort your EV out at your workplace or home address.
Looks like an opportunity for investors beyond crowdfunding. Perhaps ones that are already investing in the public charger network. Demand is only going to grow and it is clearly not being met.
Agreed ... but it's a "cart and horse" situation. Even Cleevely don't have enough EV work to only survive as an EV business ... they still do a high proportion of ICE. This is the problem of being in a transition period. I believe that once Norway had acquired their huge percentage of EVs the garages adapted.
My i3 developed a charging fault and there were two Hevra garages or the main dealer, close to me. One of the Hevra garages took on the diagnosis and repair, but there was a substantial wait for the part around £1000, which could only come from BMW. The garage said parts were a problem from all manufacturers. They fixed the car, but the bill was large ,£1800.
I don't know about in warranty EV's or even new ones? Just bought a 2020 Kia E-Niro 4 and it's brilliant, except a few times now the Turtle mode has kicked in - which is slightly worrying when 2 times the battery had charge of 70% and 52% respectively. It only cones on for about 15 seconds, but why at all? The other time was when I was going to charge it, it was on 10% battery and 27 miles, then at a roundabout it cut out completely and I had to turn it off and on again! Looking on forums from 2020 to 22 there were people experiencing the same problems, even some on the motorway and the thought of having to stop on a smart motorway to turn it off and on again terrifies me! These people got Kia to look into the problem, which very often meant a 10 mile drive and if nothing was replicated - back to the customer went the car! I guess the warranty doesn't matter so much if the dealer garage isn't going to fix it!? As far as I can work out some Kia dealerships ordered a whole battery, some tried to update the BMS for only a temporary fix, but a few owners (thanks to Car Scanner etc) that cell No. 58 suddenly drops its voltage every now and then - so I'm now left with running the car with Car Scanner on to see if it will record cell 58 dropping off when Turtle Mode kicks in - because I don't trust Kia to be able to sort it out themselves! Some Kia's were bought back from owners and I'm worried I have one of these cars!
MG the same, no idea what was wrong with the car, advised to start replacing random parts to fix window replacement recalibration, ended up being camera was fitted a few mm out, took a independent specialist to find the issue. Dealers struggle with knowledge and experience in these cars.
My experience with main dealers concerning EVs: plug in diagnostic tool. List of tick boxes appear. Replace ALL those parts, regardless if all those parts are faulty. Give you a huge bill. Cross your fingers everything is now working. If not, rinse and repeat. Shutting the boot on your i3S whilst saying you have an EV your aren't worried about did make me raise an eyebrow. If you ever want a chat about my 8 month i3 trial, happy to oblige.
There’s enough mistrust over new EV’s. “Ordinary” folk in the second hand market will be even more mistrustful, not having a local “fixer” garage they can rely on. One glimmer of hope though is that local colleges are now adding EV training to their automotive courses.
Own a Renault kangoo ze and the heater failed phoned a lot of local garages to no avail ended up fitting it my self did make me think wot if I can't fix it who do I go to...fingers crossed no other failures
Another great video, trying to pre-empt or foresee problems with faulty EV's. Something that I hadn't thought about and one case where an extended ( manufacturers ) warranty might be worth it. I see you've got some interesting followers below, I'm accustomed to reading T's and C's, but not checking out the T's and B's!!! Obviously YT Spam!!
Cleeverley did a great everything electric podcast almost 2 weeks ago- we need people to take plunge and train. One of the ones in skipton serviced our eNiro which was great (70 plate) but replaced the original pollen filter that Kia keighley had charged to do on 2 previous services - it was filthy. We stopped using Kia Keighley as for 2 years in a row the told us it had had the engine oil and filters done. The second time I asked if the timing belt was ok and even got them to tell me they had seen it and it was fine!
I have to say I watched the first 10 minutes of that podcast video but gave up. Basically, I felt that Matt Cleevely spent the first 10 minutes ignoring Quentin Wilson's "what about repairing a battery?" question and it just seemed like a 'sales pitch' of why people should take an EV to their garage 🤨
@@jonathantaylor1998 It's probably best to go by the reported experiences of people who have used Cleevely ... and I have to say they appear to come highly recommended by their customers.
Your video has frightened me more than you can imagine, I’m in regional Victoria the southern part of Australia where charging infrastructure is very poor, and I’m 200km from my dealer. I started looking for repairers and couldn’t find anyone in the entire state that could do anymore than service and EV. I have a new car with no issues but am now worried about the future problems that may arise. Thanks for the wake up call.
I took my electric motorbike (Zero S) to a tyre specialist for a new front tyre. I'd been using them for years for my various cars and bikes. As soon as they saw that the bike was electric they said that they don't work on EVs and couldn't help me. I said something along the lines of "you're replacing a tyre, not going anywhere near anything electrical".....but they were adamant that they don't work on EVs. So I took the bike elsewhere but they lost a customer that day. I won't be using them again for any of my vehicles.
That was almost certainly down to their insurance policy. At this time it can add a significant difference to the policy premium. I'm guessing that the management couldn't justify it for the amount of business they get from EV's
Lets be honest, its going to take time for the knowledge transfer, same happened about 5 years ago with ADAS / Radar calibration in that dealers were charging £1000+ to recode the module, when in fact all they were doing was parking it 1.2m from a wall, and pressing a few buttons to reset it / recalibrate. Once everyone worked out what was happening, you never hear about this anymore. EV's are just the same, if the airbags go off then currently its an instant write off, as the pyro fuse is inside the battery, and not many have the qualification for HV work, currently.
Huge opportunities here for some independents, also we need a huge training program for the technicians, not just the parts cannon guesswork operators.
Good points. There is an understandable wariness by small garages but most of the tasks they're likely to be asked to take on would be well within their capabilities. It's mostly fear of the unknown. I have actually had good experiences with my nearest Tesla Service Centre and their pricing is actually comparable to most other garages ... aside from the hourly labour rate of course ... which is where all main manufacturers/dealers really fall down from the customer perspective.
I used to work for Mercedes at one time. We only had one guy in the shop who was qualified to work on electric vehicles (Hybrids at the time) because of the safety concerns high voltages engendered. I'm hoping things have improved since then (2016). It’s a really hot day & a man walks out of his shower naked. He turns to his wife & says, “Phew it’s so hot I think I’m just going to spend the rest of the day naked!” Then he looks at his wife with a grin and asks, “hey, what do you reckon the neighbours would think if I went out to mow the lawn like this?” His wife looks him up & down & says, “That I married you for your money!”
A Tesla does have oil and screw-on filter that is identical in appearance to an ICE car ... also has an oil pump ... (reduction gears and motor cooling functions). Of course it doesn't need to be routinely changed at every service like an ICE car.
Yes does make you think? Had a leaf for 4 years from new without any problems. Changed it for a new MG4 because the leaf had a 40 kWh battery and MG4 has a 65kWh. Not had any problems and used to take my Nissan for a service only once a year back to my same dealership because a good company, round trip of 80 miles to Canterbury from Gillingham Kent. But this makes you think outside the box ? Bob Blood 😊
How's the mg4 been ? Just I'm looking at one at the moment. I know might be early days but have you had any problems? If so how has the customer service been ,? Only asking as we're really interested in getting one .
It's got to be something to factor in to your decision, but like with charging infrastructure it's still early days and there's ultimately less to go wrong. I deliberately went for a high volume EV as there would potentially be more repair or after market options than something low volume. But it's also getting harder to get ICE serviced, and there's part supply problems regardless of platform
This has opened my eyes to a potential future problem re repairs. So far I've only had headlight bulbs fail in my 6.5 year old i3 which I can replace myself but I'm not confident anyone other than an expensive BMW dealer would be able to help me out for a more complex diagnostic issue ...
I work for an independent garage (doing advertising). We sold a Tesla which went wrong within our warranty. Tesla charged over £500 just to diagnose. The owner will not touch EVs now. I think this is the real reason why car insurance has gone up so much this year, costs to repair (if they can find someone to do it) are massive & EVs are getting written off.
That example is not just Tesla. or any another EV I know of a lady with a Renault who was quoted £800 by a main agent after having paid a similar large amount at another garage to unsucesfully repair the failed direction indicators. The main agent would not say that they would even forecast that the £800 of testing would find the fault and if it did how much the final bill would be. This was not an EV but a 10 year old Dacia/Renault IC,
You raise a good point EVM. There’s still a long way to go in getting an established network of garages that can diagnose and repair the more complex issues on an EV. I’ve not spoken to any mechanics directly, but if the funding was made available how many would actually WANT to retrain to focus on EVs. Our local garage does a great job maintaining my wife’s 17 yo SLK , but I get the impression he’d tell us where go if we brought our Ioniq in for him to resolve an issue. I think I might ask for his thoughts on the matter…. 🤔 What do you call a cow with no legs? Ground beef..
Interesting question about local EV repairs. I checked HEVRA for Derby city and 2 garages are listed, however 1 looks like they will only touch hybrids based on their website and the other gives a description that suggests they maybe only want to deal with Stelantis group EVs. I could be wrong of course, I only read the websites and didn’t call them, but initial investigation is a bit concerning.
It’s a big problem Andy Had a Auris hybrid non starter and eventually found a HEVRA garage to look at it . Took two months and £2000 to recharge the battery cells . Friend has a 16 plate Golf GTE at a VW main dealer that requires the hybrid battery replacing . Good news under warranty (just) . Bad news up to 12 months wait for the part 😮
I work in the vehicle repair industry and we train those who work in body repair shops. The complications brought to the process by the vehicle being an EV are significant add and body repair shops need to make significant alterations to accommodate the dangers of handling And working safely with evs. Especially where the battery pack is integral to the vehicle's construction. In this case when it is removed the body may have to be supported by special jig. This alone makes it expensive for smaller independent companies to do even the most basic work on these cars.
I'm wondering if the Right to repair laws that keep coming in will put an end to the structural battery pack in a few years. Then again think Tesla are looking to be the automotive Apple and keep everything in house as much as possible and as hard for home or 3rd parties to fix as possible
@@edc1569 Yes if the battery pack is damaged enough the cost of repair could mean a write-off. But The packs are designed to be removed if needed. If you car needs a respray you can't have the batteries in the heated spray booth. Also you have to be extra careful using a hydrolic ramp where you put the lifting arms incase you damage the pack.
@@edc1569 Same with any other major component, you have to make a call what's worth while. Zoe battery gat be got for about £3k, Model 3 about £7, if the car is worth it, replace it.The guy who's on 1.2 Million miles in his Model s has had 4 batteries, and still going strong so felt it's worth keeping going.
Our local HEVRA concentrates on electrifying classics. I get the impression they’ve not interested in specialist repairs (and, having a small workshop, maybe don’t have the resources to do them). I've been looking after my own cars for 50 years, so happy to tackle most jobs. But I'm obviously not going anywhere near high voltage DC!
My experience with main dealers over the past 20 years is that most are rubbish. Main dealers use technicians and NOT mechanics. Last year our KIA lost power and would not accelerate. Main KIA dealer found small leak in radiator so replaced under warranty. I did say that wouldn't cause the loss of power and I had scanned the car with a £30 scan tool that said MAF sensor fault. KIA dealer assured us the MAF was fine which they were correct. Got car back with same fault, no acceleration above 40 mph. Took the car back and the "Master Tech" looked at it (I think with his eyes closed). KIA dealer said possible leak on a hose that they refitted. Car collected but with same fault. I took the air intake off and noticed the intercooler as bowed. Surprise surprise it needed a new intercooler fixing the fault. With EV's you will have to go to the main dealership because so many systems are linked to the High Voltage battery which only the main dealer can touch or you void your battery warranty. Porsche Taycan's have cabin heater failures which all cars will have but the battery coolant is linked to it. £2500 plus to fix at Porsche if car is out of warranty (3 years). Ioniq wing mirror camera over £4000 to replace so Audi will be more. EV's are a main dealers wet dream as they know you have to use them. KIA are £160 per hour labour so Audi will be more and Porsche / BMW will be eye watering expensive.
Maybe if you bought the Model S. your journey through keeping it on the road would highlight this problem further, and get more people involved in finding a solution, maybe HEVRA would start to seriously consider the tiering of the garages. I think I believed like you that all HEVRA garages did repairs, but was seriously worried about testing it. Great thought provoking video, thank you
When you say "go to a specialist" garage rather than the main dealer, what do you mean? Specialist in electrical faults? And how do you find one of these? Cheers
The thing about this is the demand. Since so few ev have problems and the ones on the road are new it's not profitable to run a garage just for that yet. Where I live only the official Renault dealership can fix related to ev motors or diagnostics, luckily for us they accept any ev and not just their own brand
Venison’s dear isn’t it? This has been an eye opener ‘cos I genuinely thought that all HEVRA garages could repair EVs. I’m in the same neck of the woods as you so Cleevley’s would also be tricky - especially if the car was undriveable. Not convinced the local dealer could fix it either.
I'm sure I've seen James from Cleevely's working in Scotland. Bit further North than you chaps, I was surprised to hear Andy say he didn't think their mobile technicians wouldn't come up his way. I wrote and asked them if they came down south and they do, having my first service with them here in the southeast later this year.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t, but they can only do certain things on the roadside. Anything requiring time to diagnose won’t be done at your house, especially with equipment needed.
@@ElectricVehicleMan yes, apologies, of course you did and that makes perfect sense. I have ME and tend to forget things instantly or only remember partial details. Sorry, as soon as I read that I had instant recall and felt a bit of a pillock! 🤯
In my mother's town there's an accident repair centre that we take our cars to for their MOTs, and before buying the Leaf (and now Fortwo EQ) we asked about getting repairs done, and they said for the most part it's just a normal car, it's only the HV stuff that's different. They have all the equipment to be able to do it, but because it's not their main line of work the waiting time could be horrendous.
My mechanic won't touch them, especially for servicing as it doesn't pay. You must still be knowledgeable about working around/near the HV system. (Edd China YT did a course the other year if you want a mechanic's pov).
I use Wesley motors on the wirral and they service EVs and have EV certificates on the office wall for their mechanics. I have a 2017 i3 and nothing has gone wrong yet so I will have to wait for a fault to develop to find out if they can fix it.
My Nissan (eNV200) has developed a light ratchetty noise when moving off in the morning. A fairly classic 'That's not right.' that goes away with a few on and offs. The local larger Nissan garage seems to know what it is doing but is expensive, and I'm not entirely convinced their mechanics are EV committed. Your video was nicely timed as I'd already contacted Cleevely mobile, who as you note advertise that they cover the UK. I'm fairly sure it's not the EV part that's wrong, quite possibly ABS so I think it may be cheaper to fix than having to go for a wallet-ectomy at the main dealer. ..Joke well here's one I actually made myself. Question. How many SAS does it take to change a lightbulb? Answer. Maybe one maybe six, you probably won't find out, but it might be a good idea to be out of the house when it happens.
Have you tried “cleaning” the brakes? Go to a clear stretch of road, get up some speed and brake hard. EVs tend to build up rust on the brakes because they are rarely used. Could explain the noise.
@@RichardASlack I'm going to have to disassemble some of the wheel/braking system as it's so erratic. The disc is recently replaced so I doubt rust is causing it and suspect mis-assembly by the mechanic, or conceivably a small stone or similar. Every time I try to record it or get a garage to look at it, it goes silent. Still, I think it proves my EV has a sense of humour.
Yes please a review of an early Tesla Model S. Mine is Dec 2015 S 90D and I have very strong (positive!) views about my last 3 years of ownership, is my experience typical? I'd like to know. Independent Cleevely EV in Cheltenham are my go to independent Tesla garage, but 100 mile round trip/2hrs, though worth it. Shame they're not closer. Totally agree with your comments!
I took our Leaf for a service at a HEVRA approved garage. He did repair and diagnose issues. His main issue with EV’s was the cost of the specialist parts and he personally would stick to his diesel!!! You’re 100% correct we need government intervention to up skill garages. Now’s the day time to do it before the millions EVs being sold now need a non dealer network
Reminds me how back in 2009 I had to drive 30mi to a completelly different part of London to a scetchy MOT centre where they agreed to MOT my EV. They were then shocked how easy it was for them to do it and started accepting EVs. Same then happened few years later in Barcelona. Funniest was that they almost failed me as there was no exhaust to measure the emissions and it was not allowed to pass call without emission test. 30min of the mechanics arguing with their bosses and ITV (MOT) cert was done... They also had back then forst EV charging stations but since there were no other EVs apart of mine, none of those chargers worked. I tried to contact the ES EV charging company few times. They promptly did responded to me just mere 3 years later...
I spoke to my local EV sales/service/repair shop earlier today about the fact that the aren’t registered on HEVRA, and the deal appears to be that there are a number of competing registers that such repairers can join. It costs them money, so they have to believe it is worth registering. Our local place, Buckingham Stanley near Cambridge (UK) are not registered with HEVRA, but are registered with EVA. So just a note that you should utilise both these registers if you are wanting to find EV servicing/repairs in your local area.
I've been lucky with cars for decades and only had cars that had very few faults. Two cars were exceptional and had well over 250k miles with zero faults (LS400). I put that down to the fact they were always serviced to the manufacturer schedule. 80k miles into my first EV and its never had a service because it doesn't need one apparently. So far, luck is on my side. Fingers crossed it doesn't need fixing until there are garages around to do it because I expect it to last at least 250k miles. We always keep cars for at least 10 years. I hope I'm not delusional.
Fair comments there. It's a lot that don't do repairs beyond shared ICE parts. You can however diagnose a Tesla very deep by itself on the service menu. Might be worth doing one and fix yourself. Main issue are heater, 12V, and air suspension.
Even under warranty, if I bought a Tesla it’d be almost 50 miles to the nearest service centre. (And I’m not in the middle of nowhere-in a city with a motorway and main line rail connection)
I watched this when it came out and your piece just became real for me with a car under warranty that developed a fault / won’t accept a charge. Ioniq EV 38 kw, otherwise very reliable needs to go into my local dealer for a warranty repair. Problem I found is that dealers only seem to have one person trained on EV’s so earliest I could get was 2 1/2 weeks wait!. Phoned 5 dealers and one had their only mechanic off because he had a hip problem up to 6weeks wit and they have no one else trained. Everyone else had a min 4 week delay. I’m fortunate as I have more than one car but if manufacturers want us to buy EV’s they need to invest more in support for warranty repairs Cleevley doing my service once fixed but no way I can transport my car for repairs! That’s why I still have an ice car as a back up!
I can see a massive opportunity for the next generation of mechanics, if only land wasn’t so dammned expensive so the incumbents could face some competition
we've got a good local HEVRA garage in paisley - the guys are happy to work on EVs that the main dealer insists "needs a new battery" (mitsubishi outlander with a flooded battery- needed stripped down and dried out) or a "new motor" (zoe that needed an inverter part). main dealers are overpriced and use under trained cheap technicians then take a huge cut of the high hourly charges. We need more support as you say.
I just bought my first EV a few months ago and hadn't thought too much about repair since I have a warranty. But I am the kind of guy to keep a vehicle for a decade or longer if I can manage it. I certainly hope that mechanics start getting into the EV repair trade before I need them. Since i live in a very hot and humid climate, i am almost certain my a/c will go out before anything else and I don't want to be turned away due to my bright orange high voltage cables under the hood or have to pay a huge premium either.
@@jackmorganfiftyfive oh, that's simple to answer! It's been cheaper, more reliable, and carefree running around with a Bolt EV. The car is quiet, responsive, and has smooth acceleration, braking, and dealt with the ice storm no issues! I love my little Bolt and wouldn't go for an ICE ever again.
And main dealers are only going to want to keep 'their' customers happy. ie. those who are buying a new/new-ish car from them. I've known them inflate the problems well past the value of the car, and like Mr Ben, the salesman appears from nowhere to show you a newer car as a replacement.
I've had one dealing with my local HEVRA garage. Wanted all day for a service they said would take a couple of hours. Also promised to call me back about fixing one minor issue. Still waiting for that call 4 months later.
2017 S100D here. Phenomenal car. Had an fuse blowing issue, spoke with Cleverly (not close either) but even they said Tesla. Was part of the harness, though it took Tesla a fair bit to solve! Prior cars Audi A8/S8s and found forums better than the dealers! Interesting with Tesla they now have a service tool (Toolbox) that only requires a cheap cable. Subscription based but actually pretty reasonable compared with SOME dealer tools. I think that there's more fear about the unknown, than it being THAT hard!
A couple of years ago I wanted my aircon checking on my Hyundai Ioniq. I ended up going to the main dealer because nobody else would look at it. Not much has changed.
Seen a dinky Leaf on a low loader, loaded behind a massive excavator. Looked like it was sat there thinking “I’m a digger!” Not specifically a joke but self musings that crack me up. Seriously though, for any small issues mostly run of the mill servicing etc, my local MoT station & garage have already said they’re happy to serve. They have another garage nearby which looks after some fleet hybrid taxis. I’m hoping this bodes well for more expertise to naturally spark. If there’s money to be made . . .
A set of jump leads walk into a bar......
And the barman says I'll serve you but.......
DON'T START ANYTHING!
😉
I own a car repair garage 30yrs. I am level 4 EV qualified. We have been a member of HEVRA for 9 months. I have stripped and repaired a leaf battery HEVRA helped us all the way through it with correct information I would do one now without an issue. We are now at the EV stage where we were when fuel injection first came out! HEVRA are here to “hold our hands” through in depth EV repairs which I explain this to our EV customers but you’ll find a lot of garages don’t want to make “false promises” and let the customer down. You going to have a look around at the moment but 2/3yrs from now you’ll find a LOT more HEVRA members will be a lot more confident. I’m on a training course with cleverly EV early April and hands on course inc Tesla I actually think your near us by your accent Cleckheaton area.
As you know you need equipment to monitor the battery after an accident and have to store the car away from other cars etc etc ,who's gonna put the expense in if they already have enough ice work ,as for removing batteries, thats another story ,you'll only make a mistake once and its game over ,a German ev expert found that out when he fell on an open ev battery 🔋 brown bread and they used the tethering lead to retrieve his body.
Most importantly, how much was the bill to fix the leaf battery?
@@mikeolly67 used good cell including labour was £680 so cheaper than an average clutch replacement
Hi Sav1975, Which garage are you in Cleckheaton? As an EV owner in the Morley area it would be good to keep hold of your details.
@@Sav1975 £380 for a clutch in my 2012 i30. 130k miles, that's only thing it's needed
A bloke rang me up the other night and said "I'm the dandy highwayman who you're too scared to mention, I spend my cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention!" I tried to tell him he had the wrong number, but he was adamant.
Jareck Carnelian eh, nice.
If he was Adam Ant then he definitely had the wrong number!
I asked a scuba diver why they always fall backwards into the water. He replied that if he fell forward he would still be in the boat.
Hi Coiln. What a super joke - thank you. Mike
It was about EV maintenance and reliability being worse than ICE and links to the consumer report that stated EV were 80 % less reliable than ICE.
Your reply was . What report ?
There's little to go wrong with them .
The report says differently so I'm actually shocked you were unaware of it . Google it !!.
I used to do scuba diving, not driving...
Oh, man that made me laugh!
What’s the first sign of madness ?
Suggs walking up your driveway..
I bought a Corsa e 20 plate , and for 2 years it was fantastic, however it went in for a service and software update and when I had it back it had lost 25 miles of range , I drove it for a few months and it didn't regain it's lost 25 miles , I took it back to the vauxhall main dealer who kept it for 14 weeks changing this part and that ... . Triggers broom ... When I eventually had it back the service manager told me if it's not right now , don't bother coming back as we don't know what's wrong with it !!!!!!
I opened a case with Vauxhall head office .. who were absolutely useless
I lost all confidence in electric cars because in my experience it couldn't be fixed . I am now back to a diesel.
I think it's just because it's a Vauxhall 😂
Sue them. Their conduct is unacceptable.
You've gotten rid of it now so it doesn't matter, but...
From the sound of it, it was a software fault after the update, causing it to misread the battery charge. Laptops (wildly different I know, but bear with me) can misread their battery charge sometimes. It probably just needed a software recalibration or maybe a clean install of the update to fix it. Doubt any physical parts needed replacing. Hopefully you still have some confidence in EVs and can find one you like again in the future :)
Heard much the same with ICE cars. They don't call them lemons for nothing. It happens, usually you need to drag them through the courts to get an acceptable outcome.
Not E. V related but my brother-in-law was an independent Jaguar specialist (now retired) . When he started to deal with post 2005 Jags, cost him £17,000 (15 years ago) for the computer to read the codes and be able to do things like reset the brake calipers on electric hand brake models etc. As well as other stuff that could only be done at that time with this specialist kit plus a £4,000 per year subscription for the software updates to keep current with all models.
That's one of my points. How will independent garages cope with manufacturers locked software?
We're in Sheffield and had a charging problem with a 2015 Zoe. Took it to local Renault dealer, who quoted around £4,500 to fix the fault. Had the car taken a mile down the road to Mam Tor Automotive, a HEVRA garage. They stripped the car down, diagnosed the actual problem and fixed it for £1,300. Luckily we'd taken out an extended warranty, and they paid for it.
2 fish in a tank... one turns to the other and says, "How do you drive this thing?"
Quality dad joke there. I’m gonna tell that to my daughter :)
The old ones are the best!
😂
Pretty much sums up the EV repair industry 😂
Been a member of HEVRA for over 5 years, on a technical level they support members with highest possible professionalism.. We repair EVs, not just servicing and MOTs. We also repair ICE cars, most traditional garages prefer to do easy money jobs ie, brakes, servicing. We get ICE customers calling us telling us other garages ‘haven’t got the equipment’ to carry out more tricky work, often after carrying out an MOT and failing the vehicle, then being unprepared to complete the job. Ultimately garages are selective about what work they wish to carry out.
The garage trade is experiencing huge shortages in qualified technicians. Many are leaving the trade and youngsters are just not interested. It’s not an easy job anymore.
We wish more garages would embrace EV’s, however without the technical support of HEVRA we would not be able to carry out some of the EV repairs we have done over the past few years.
As a scarecrow, people say I’m outstanding in my field. But hay - it’s in my jeans.
Get stuffed!
My son is a vw trained mechanic and he advises people to go to a specialist independent garage not a main dealer. The stories he tells of the service provided by some main dealers is shocking.
That's why Main Dealers are called Stealerships by Mechanics in the US! I think that term is accurate here in the UK too, I take my cars to the main dealer to be serviced and repaired out of necessity (new car every 3 years warranty only covers the main Stealer).
I had a Nissan X-trail that I managed to get a full refund from Nissan direct after 13 months, It was in the garage 18 times for various different repairs in that 13 month period and most of those times were for an aircon fault. When you first started the car, the aircon worked just fine. Approx 10 - 15 mins after the car had been running, if the car was moving forward the aircon worked fine, stop at a set of lights or a roundabout and the aircon stopped working. Every time I took it back after they "fixed" it, it was still faulty. It turned out they never once took it for a test drive to check. Finally after about 6 months of this I asked to speak to the tech who worked on it, he said they just said that the aircon worked every time he tried it, it worked fine. I asked what his work order said and he showed me, the service desk just had "check aircon works and repair if necessary". I took him for a 20 min test drive and sure enough the aircon stopped working, he immediately said "i know what that is but its a long repair because we had a bulletin come through from Nissan about it. This then took around 4 1/2 months to repair as the part was in short supply from Nissan Japan because of the bulletin issued back 6 months before my car was even sold to me! I found out afterwards that the Stealership had charged Nissan Warranty about 2/3rds the new price of the car for all the work they had to do to my "Friday afternoon" car!
What's the difference between light and hard? You can go to sleep with a light on.
Main dealer just fire the parts cannon,you are correct,keep fitting part until it fixes the problem,good video,thanks.
Weldbank Garage Chorley are HEVRA and have worked on my i3 and Model 3
Here in Norway most garages repair ev`s but thats because we have so many ev`s on the road.
Spot on, the UK EV market is still small, that’s why leasing is the best option for the next 4 years.
Apparently Norway has plenty of electricity - thanks to their investment in hydro - electric power stations. And if any Norwegian wants to buy an ICE motor car, then they have to write to the Government of Norway and ask permission with reasons to justify their choice.
@@markmiwurdz2248 lol no to the last one not until next year but ice car Are heavily taxed compare to ev.
Easy for wef to switch you all off then?
I dont like Norway approach ,it taxed all gas cars 100% so you dont have a choice,and is country which 90% off export is fossil fuels
I bought a Leaf with a broken heater and searched for an EV garage, I came across the HEVRA website, picked the nearest on, which at the time was in Leicester 60 miles away. I took it there and eTech Midlands fixed it with no fuss, and at a good price. Marvellous.
I got rid of my Audi etron because my local Audi main dealer was less than useless. I may have kept it had there been a decent alternative service agent.
I totally understand. I had an Audi RS Etron GT, it spent more time at Caffyns than on the road with one problem after another, so I’ve gone back to a Tesla who seem to have things sorted. Audi certainly don’t!
So what servicing does your Audi etron actually require? I think you are taking us for fools.
Perhaps it would help it you read the comments.
I said it had many problems, ranging from the tailgate opening by itself whilst away from the car, door mirror not unfolding at all to not charging and many many more.
The only servicing which Audi recommend is a two year service which in my opinion is expensive for what is done.
Most of the problems stemmed from the software which was the MMI system.
Most times I took it in they said it seemed fine, but the problem was when you fault find the system throws up thousands of error messages which make it impossible to find the one you are looking for.
So no I’m not taking anybody for a fool unless you want to wear the hat of course!
Bigger concern is that there is a shortage of technicians going into the job, Main dealers are only taking on apprentices to meet tax/penalty levels, not enough to cover the numbers leaving the trade. plus they dont pay them enough while training ( and in the early years)
Very valuable information. It has changed my thinking about going for a few year old Tesla. I'll stick with my in-7-year warranty MG for the time being.
Was thinking about a few year old Tesla myself but as you say think I'll stick with the MG4 or could go for new Tesla😅 as well
What has four wheels and flies?
A garbage truck.
Your car!
Dude, you had better clean that nasty thing before the health department condemn it
I have had a nissan ev for coming up to 5 years now and have had a absolutely no problem with it.
To celebrate the 5 th anniversary I thought I would get the car some sort of present. The trouble is I don't know where is the best place to attach the leaf blower.
good luck selling the damned thing. Congrats, you've been duped.
@@Hello_there_obi why should I sell it. It has been very good for the family, everybody enjoys driving it, I can charge at home, the solar panels make it even cheaper and hardly ever have to go to a filling station. That's reality
You’ve hit the nail on the head with this repair problem.
Another reason for people being reluctant to buy EV
the average person can’t afford a new car with warranty and an 5-8 year old one with 60-90k miles on the clock is the norm.
People are afraid of a large repair bill from main dealer.
Ev will become throw away items like phones and that isn’t good for the environment.
I have a Honda E , Honda have stopped making them and il extend the warranty for as long as possible.
After that who nows.
It’s going to take a brave independent dealer to train and equip for EV.
Not so much brave as foolhardy.
They're going to have to retrain if they want to stay in business longterm because EVs will be the majority of cars eventually.
@@markianross I like a good joke on a Friday.
@@davelowe1977 well 17% of new car sales are currently EVs, so that will already be affecting their business because that's fewer cars they can repair, and it will only get worse for them. That's just common sense as EV sales are only increasing.
@@markianross EV sales aren't increasing though. The market for them is nearly saturated and will worsen as the reality of long-term ownership dawns and when the subsidies end and the fires continue and the insurance becomes unaffordium. Meanwhile, the 2nd hand ICE market goes from strength to strength as people keep reliable and cheap cars on the road.
Cleevely Ev are your best bet and James runs a youtube channel covering their work , perhaps a collaboration with them ??
I bought an MG5 off the back of James' videos. He's right - they're great!
Even Cleevely say they couldn't survive on EV work only and, given they are so well known, it doesn't bode well for anyone else considering EV repair work.
Definitely ,Cleavleys is your best bet for Tesla,catch him on TH-cam or X.
@@narrowboatlongpod4176 There are other HEVRA registered garages around. Both the guys in my local (village) garage in the Lake District, are HEVRA certified to work on electric vehicles.....
I believe they even run training for other garages.
We can and do work with HEVRA on some complicated faults.
It's entirely down to any garage to choose the work they do...
Try calling a garage and ask them for the cost of a head gasket replacement on a common car.
You'll find a lot of garages no longer want to get involved in that kind of work. It's not an EV specific problem, but there are less garages to choose from
Read the front page of HEVRAs site.
ALL our garage members can diagnose and repair.
Ones I spoke to didn’t have the equipment. So clearly couldn’t even attempt.
@ElectricVehicleMan I am in the land down under, so no use for you, but the same issue is occurring here. Part of the split is OBD access for emissions is no longer required and for some reason, aftermarket scan tools are really hit and miss at the moment for electric cars. The Tesla module not including cables is $700 a year, but the kit for electric and battery diagnoses is closer to $10,000 + yearly costs. If EV's are as reliable as claimed and rarely brake, then the economics of supplying a full service is woeful. Meaning less dealers that will support EV. Often with memberships all the workshops join as it looks good on their website, servicing Green stuff... tick, and are often incentivised by government which often makes the process worse not better. Anyway, I going to get skilled and invest as I want to have the work no one else wants, mostly because I've made a career out of that up to now and been quite successful.
Good grief. Many years ago I completely rebuilt my Morris 1000 engine using a reconditioned short engine. I did that with no prior experience.
I currently own a 2016 Model S 85D. I bought it from a used car dealer with 232,000 miles on the clock. I have a friend with a local garage and he’s fine looking at my EVs. He’s looked after my Zoes, Kangoo ZE, and the Model S. I guess he is used to working on all sorts as he happily fixes Jensen Interceptors, TVRs, MGBs, Chevette HSRs etc My Model S has now covered 259,000 miles and been pretty straight forward to look after. Tesla Bristol have had it in at very little cost to me apart from when they did the MCU2 upgrade and David has done other bits like lower front arms. (Tesla were the cheapest for the parts).
Had similar experience down here in the south east. Bought an EV after huge amounts of research, using your channel and many others, so I was pretty much expert by the time I bought it. Went to my nearest HEVRA garage, spoke "ev" at them and despite many certificates, including from HEVRA all over their wall they had no idea what I was talking about! He didn't even understand what HEVRA was when said as a word not the letters, bizarre! Ended up going to main dealer to be ripped off instead. Cleevely coming this year and there is another HEVRA place nearby but I'm not optimistic after hearing about your experience.
This is no joke and sadly I can't think of one...I'll get back to you....😂👍
Hi EVM, getting any car fixed these days is a nightmare. Main dealers - forget it, they are useless! I’m 58, and am used to getting under the bonnet. A colleague of mine has a 2009 Golf 1.6TDi, he went to 3 garages who ripped him off and didn’t fix the fault. We fixed it on my drive for 3 hours work and some oven cleaner; yes, oven cleaner. The Golf kept going into limp mode, the problem was carbon build up in the EGR cooler, a pain to get to on the VW 1.6 TDi engine, we jacked up the front to put the car at a backwards angle, removed the front facing EGR pipe, and poured oven cleaner in with a funnel and a short length of garden hose, let it react for 2 hours, then flushed it out with water from a hose. No garage would do this, saying the EGR cooler must be replaced; an absolute bitch of a job that would effectively write the car off. Car is now just fine. Top tip, don’t buy a modern diesel if you do mainly short journeys - they are filthy things! Me? I got a BMW i3 in 2019, love it, faultless in 40k miles, cheap to run, great to drive.
⚠️Main dealers only employ laptop monkeys .
Specialist every time for me
You wouldn’t believe how many people I’ve heard have serious problems with so called emissions technology. Diesel engines were at their best in the late 90’s and early 2000’s as far as longevity and reliability goes. I should know - I still drive them, currently one at 180k and one at 135k miles. Simple servicing and a few repairs to keep them flying along.
@@Jacob-yb6bv Hi Jacob, I completely agree that what breaks modern diesels is the anti pollution technology. Normally aspirated diesels are a dog to drive, they do need a turbo. I guess the problem is that without DPFs and EGR, diesels are really filthy; loads of filthy black smoke, nitrous oxides and toxic particles. I loved the 3 diesels I owned 20 odd years ago, I had a Peugeot 306 1.9 turbo diesel that just ran and ran, not sure I would want one now though, the noise, the vibration, the messy fuelling process, waiting for the glow plugs on cold days, waiting for miles of driving for the cabin heater to put out any heat in the winter.
I had a diesel Fiesta with the same problem (but I guess a less valuable car). No one would touch it.. So I watched a TH-cam video on the fix.. It's about twice as big as the injector job my local garage had just messed up. Decided £192 scrap value was the best option. (It had done 130,000 miles.) I also now own an i3.
Very good point EVM. When all theses ex-company cars or salary sacrifice low cost lease cars come flooding onto the market, I suspect the government thinks there will be a ready market for them. However used car buyers are not going to be queuing up the buy these cars if main dealers are effectively the only option for repairs and servicing.
I live on Shetland and last year I bought a Zoe. I think I took a risk buying a Zoe because of my location. I have a great garage who are set up for EV and who I think will do their very best if my car needed work. If my car needs to go to Renault I have a big problem. It costs up to about £400 for a return journey with my car to the mainland. Just dropping it off would require 2 days off work (14 hour ferry) and to pick it up again another £400 and 2 days if the ferry wasn’t fully booked. It is the same for many ICE cars who don’t have dealerships in Shetland too.
I have wondered what the situation would be buying a BYD without a dealership. Would I be no or little worst off being on Shetland?
I wonder how well set up Norway are for EV repairs. EV Man I would love to see videos from you in Norway exploring the EV future!
That was a recent news story, UK wide BYD (and the other newcomers) are seriously struggling to provide parts and have a very high write off rate due to the cost of labour. They're working on it, but for now it's a risk to get one.
@@sIightIybored I watched a second-hand BYD go through auction on Johnathon Porterfield's channel. It didn't get any bids.
Last year I was working in Shetland along with local nurse Emma. Her (ICE) Skoda Kodiaq was rear ended and she has been told to take it to Aberdeen for assessor to look at it and give final thumbs up to carry out a repair. It was slight dent on a rear bumper with total cost to repair of less than £500. Our car insurance is so expensive because of laziness and politics within insurance companies, at the end we pay for all repairs they only arrange specialists to carry them out.
I drove round your beautiful island in Renault MeganE and done over 2000 miles, never has any charging issues. Last year when prices were introduced on public chargers, I was using mostly AC end in Gilbertson Park and by some reason it was always free (not a penny spent)
Looked at BYD but the nearest place that sells and will service, is a 200mi round trip. If it’s a service and all is well, that’s 200mi. If it needs repair and assuming the car is driveable, it’s 200mi for diagnosis and and at lease another 200mi for repair. If it’s not repairable on one day, that’s 200mi plus two train journeys. And that’s assuming the dealer continues with BYD. Well that put me off a new BYD. An out of warranty BYD, is not even in this galaxy of consideration.
There isn't an EV future....for many many reasons. They were only mandated to destroy legacy car manufacturers and control our every movement. They are total data harvesting devices and, if you've ever connected your phone to the car - the manufacturer will have every single bit of information from that phone. Check out Naomi Blackwell NBTV on the Tube
I am a mechanic and have owned a Leaf and now a brand new MG4. My car has been in the dealership for two weeks with a charging issue. I am not trained on the electric side and would not dream of touching that even if it was out of warranty. Lots of specialist equipment and training required. The thing is good workshops will catch up. Just like you said we all used to deal with points plugs and condensors. Everyone was lost when fuel injection and ECUs came in. The experience and knowledge will trickle through its just going to take time. At the moment out of warranty the dealer is still the best place for a broke EV. That will change in time. There a loads of switched on techs out there who will learn quickly.
I'm the same as you, mechanic with an EV but not trained in the electric side. Don't want to know to be fair. At 60 I'm just waiting out for retirement.
@@iantaylor1172 The major difference being the real and ever present danger of electrocution from 800V dc and dc being the worst.
Retired electrician shaking his head at how risky this is in a vehicle as well! not to mention 8000 plus cells to fault in any one of them. ye gods where is this going?
@@Ifitwerks Come on, that's scaremongering. If you take the correct precautions when working on them and treat them with respect, they are perfectly repairable. Same as you do as an electrician surely?? As far as repairing, they are just the same to any good diagnostic tech but it does take learning and some effort. Most don't want to make the effort. 😟
@@kitcht Think of it this way, if you pay for a safety electrical inspection and you have a potentially dangerous situation highlighted to you, would you call that scaremongering, Yes of course a high level of aptitude and training will be needed.
Incidentally I am not referring to just repairs, but construction and use also. Finally attitude to risk varies, mine has been shaped by life experience and what I have witnessed, not suitable to document here.
@kitcht When it comes to working with 800 volts DC you DON'T treat that as a normal work situation. Electrocution is a real possibly (assuming you are near the power source end of an EV) and DC electricity is the worst.
Agree with your observations , would love for u to get an old Model S , would make great content and highlight your observations and perhaps solutions , believe would be a popular series of videos from buying to running , fortunately live 40 mile from Cleevely whilst not ideal it’s ok
Actually a very useful video 👍and an important discussion started here. Even some main dealers are not organised. There's a lot if opportunities there for independent garages to take a lead. I'd not hold my breath on government help though. Quite a good read, some useful information and experience below. Well done for the having a go at raising the issues indeed.
Excellent topic. I’m looking at 6-8 yrs old EVs at the moment. You’ve brought up a very valid point which might influence my choice of manufacturer!
Mg4 with 7 years warranty ? Any thoughts as IV been looking at this one.
But some comments only says the customer service is not very good ? But always hard what to believe as that might have just been a few cases ? Hmm hard to decide.
@@marcakko2010how much do you think the Chynese care about you and your car? They treat their own population as disposable
Would you buy a 6 year old phone or laptop?
I suppose you would if it was at a throw away price and all you needed. I’d buy the laptop if I didn’t mind keeping the power lead plugged in. I wouldn’t buy the phone.
I loved this video, I live in a Central European country and my only option is the dealer. I drive a little Zoe. This car wasn't even for sale in this country through Renault, I bought it in Germany. Now I'm looking to upgrading it, and the point you bring across is very valid. I guess the EV story is that you in a near future we will not own them, but they'll be subscription based and you rent them for a time period based on dynamic pricing. I tried to replace the 40Kw battery for my Zoe and Renault asked me for 20keur/ I can find cheaper 2nd hand cars. This Ev fairy tale is turning out to a nightmare, so no wonder people are not buying EV and going for Hybrids.
Did your battery fail? I never heard of anyone having to replace the battery in a Zoe.
@@itekani No its got 15000km and SOH is 80% just time to change
@@renaultopelbmw Nah, keep driving.
Ahh, the good old ‘parts darts’ that garages play if they don’t know the problem… Shocking!
2018 Tesla Model S 43k miles - Part 2 - Follow on from earlier today.
This is long guys but if you’re thinking of buying a used Tesla Model S you’ll likely be interested.
So, I was on my way to Glasgow early morning six weeks ago and behind a wood lorry waiting for a straight to overtake in my super-fast Tesla Model S 75D when I heard this very loud bang.
At first, I thought a stone must have been thrown up and hit the windscreen, it was still pretty wet and dark so I couldn’t really see all the screen that well.
But a few minutes later I started to feel really cold, it was around four degrees outside. I then realised the bang was an electrical one and that the heater was knackered.
From previous experience with Tesla service in Glasgow, you can’t speak to anyone, all done through the App. I could book it in for a diagnostic check, one hour’s labour, £165 plus VAT so £198!
Ok, the car was just over five years old, but it had only done 42k miles. This car was around £70K new, would you have bought it expecting the heater to go bang after 42k miles?
Tesla Glasgow weren’t really interested when I physically went to speak to them, you get nowhere through the App. One comment I had was that “ they don’t know how much the heater was on during the 42k miles”! Yeah, I really like to spend my winter days and nights sitting in the car to keep warm!
Anyway, after a bit of hassling they were actually able to diagnose it over the air. It would need a new PTC heater and fuse, £1500.
I think £198 an hour is exorbitant so I decided to look for a cheaper garage that could fix electric cars. Philips garage in Glasgow had good reviews so called them. They said they could do it but that it is difficult getting parts, it took ten days from Tesla, seemingly they come from Holland!
I had looked up TH-cam and saw a series of videos on how to replace a PTC heater and fuse on a 2018 Tesla 75D, sent these to Philips Garage and they said, thank you, that would be helpful.
Turns out it wasn’t, the PTC heater wasn’t in the place in the videos, after they’d already spent a couple of hours digging. It was to get worse.
I was hanging around Glasgow waiting for them to call saying it was fixed. It was dropped off at 9 o’clock, they called at around half three to say they had “good news and bad news”. The good news was that they’d replaced the PTC heater the bad was that they couldn’t replace the fuse as it needed the main battery to be dropped from the car as the fuse was located under the battery, this is a fuse for the heater remember!
They didn’t have the specialist equipment needed to drop the battery out safely, it would have to go back to Tesla for that. Cost for Tesla to replace the fuse, three hours labour, £594 plus £48 for a fuse, total £642.
As you can imagine my respect for Elon Musk’s and Tesla’s engineering skills went out the window. Have you ever paid £642 to have a fuse replaced!
Turns out the Philips garage spotted my front tyres were shot on the inside edge so after a bit of searching I opted for Autotec in Port Glasgow and ended up with four new tyres and a Hunter 4 wheel alignment. Not cheap, but at £1120 was a good bit cheaper than anywhere else.
Whilst waiting to get the car booked in at Autotec I noticed a sign saying they did electric car repairs, wasn’t on their website, they’re having it updated.
Turns out that the owner Robert actually has two Tesla model S’s himself and a Porsche Taycan. Obviously does well but in fairness Robert’s there with a boilersuit on all week working alongside the six or so mechanics he has.
So, could they replace the fuse? They didn’t have the specialist bit of kit to drop the battery, would cost around £3500 Robert reckoned but they would find a way. I asked how long it would take, four hours he thought. Car went in and they got the fuse fitted at a labour rate of £70 plus VAT, total cost of £336. Around half the price of Tesla.
A very nice guy is Robert and as he said he looks after around twenty Tesla’s so I’ll be going there in future.
Another cautionary note.
I had taken out an RAC all singing and dancing warranty, Platinum Plus and Maintenance, for two years (£1000) when I bought the car from Motorclass in Wigan, a pretty useless garage by the way, not at all impressed.
In the RAC small print it doesn’t include diagnostics or replacing fuses. Also, they only cover a labour rate of £45 an hour outside London and £65 for London. What planet are they on!
To add insult to injury they were only prepared to pay one hour’s labour for the PTC heater replacement. The warranty is a complete rip off, so buyer beware!
So, I have to say most of my first year’s sayings have gone down the pan in this one repair and I’m thinking that it may have been a better idea to have gone for say a KIA EV6 with its seven-year warranty and at least I’d still have had a couple of years full warranty left.
I guess the reality is, plan for the possibility of spending most, if not all, of the savings you make on running costs on keeping it on the road with quite likely expensive repairs.
However, if I get to the end of the first year with no more repairs, I guess I’ve still saved around £1300 compared to running the Volvo and it is a cool car to drive, the acceleration is blistering.
So, if you own a Tesla in the Glasgow/ West of Scotland area I’d take it to Robert at Autotec in Port Glasgow.
You are right Andy in what you say about the lack of independent garages to take your electric car to be repaired and I wouldn’t blame people for holding back until this improves, as it must, if there is to be mass adoption.
As you said, Government grants and/or tax breaks for independent garages to get the training, kit and software needed is definitely the way to go and we need to keep pressing government for this.
Looking forward to going to Fully Charged again in Harrogate, hopefully you’ll be there as last year on a panel, you’re a straight talker Andy and speak a lot of sense.
Cheers
Alan
So again your expecting normal tax payers to subsidize your EV habit? There IS no such thing as Government money- they don't make anything, all they have comes from taxes. You only have to look at the way Westminster council has jacked up the charges on EV parking (80p x 4 hours to £18:60 X4) to see how they view EV's in the future. BTW - the justification for the parking charge increase was given as Whole Life sustainability 🤷♂️
As for your 'first year savings' - how does that work out with such a low mileage car - paying a ton of money for the repair AND £1100 for a set of tyres and that's without the insurance costs that are coming. As a retired business owner I can't see any savings anywhere and then there's depreciation.
@@CosmicSeeker69
Re the government stuff etc. I am a normal tax payer and I think it's being a little pedantic.
Re the Westminster Council, I'm sure you're probably right and this does add to the frustration of a lack of a cohesive plan to achieve the transition.
I did explain, £575 road tax saving and differential between 2p per mile for electric and 18p per mile for diesel.
Repair was expensive which was my point about getting to a point where garages can repair EV's at a similar price to ICE. Tyres: they were lowish when I bought the car which is why I replaced them, about the same cost as the Volvo would have been, nothing to do with it being an electric car.
Insurance: my insurance is only £120 more a year than the Volvo was (£450), that's with Admiral multicover.
There are still some savings but there would have been a lot more had the heater not gone kaput and, fingers crossed, if I don't have any major repairs next year I would look to be saving around the £2k plus mark.
Deprecation: a reasonable point but most of the depreciation is already out of the car when I bought it and as I will hopefully hold on to it for around another three years I take the view that it won't really owe me anything. Also, with a bit of luck there will be more garages able to fix EV's, including Tesla's, at a more affordable price so it may be feasible to keep them on the road.
Anyway, each to their own. :)
Right to repair legislation should be improved so that the tools for any job are easily obtainable at sensible prices. EVs really are not rocket science.
I'm really grateful for this video. Getting an ev repaired was something I hadn't even considered, while I've been watching the reviews of the various makes and models available. Many thanks!
12:00 So basically we need Cleevely EV to start setting up / franchising at staging posts across the UK. Could be a good base point for their mobile service to be closer to a home base for those harder to fix issues. I know that wouldn't be cheap but maybe the UK EV community could look to support that though some kind of crowd funding investment in the whole scheme to get it going.
I’ve used cleevely for a couple of years, no problems at all. They now have 5 mobile mechanics looking after all types of EV’s.
Surely they would be the best option, they could even sort your EV out at your workplace or home address.
Looks like an opportunity for investors beyond crowdfunding. Perhaps ones that are already investing in the public charger network. Demand is only going to grow and it is clearly not being met.
Agreed ... but it's a "cart and horse" situation. Even Cleevely don't have enough EV work to only survive as an EV business ... they still do a high proportion of ICE. This is the problem of being in a transition period. I believe that once Norway had acquired their huge percentage of EVs the garages adapted.
My i3 developed a charging fault and there were two Hevra garages or the main dealer, close to me. One of the Hevra garages took on the diagnosis and repair, but there was a substantial wait for the part around £1000, which could only come from BMW. The garage said parts were a problem from all manufacturers. They fixed the car, but the bill was large ,£1800.
I don't know about in warranty EV's or even new ones?
Just bought a 2020 Kia E-Niro 4 and it's brilliant, except a few times now the Turtle mode has kicked in - which is slightly worrying when 2 times the battery had charge of 70% and 52% respectively. It only cones on for about 15 seconds, but why at all? The other time was when I was going to charge it, it was on 10% battery and 27 miles, then at a roundabout it cut out completely and I had to turn it off and on again!
Looking on forums from 2020 to 22 there were people experiencing the same problems, even some on the motorway and the thought of having to stop on a smart motorway to turn it off and on again terrifies me!
These people got Kia to look into the problem, which very often meant a 10 mile drive and if nothing was replicated - back to the customer went the car! I guess the warranty doesn't matter so much if the dealer garage isn't going to fix it!?
As far as I can work out some Kia dealerships ordered a whole battery, some tried to update the BMS for only a temporary fix, but a few owners (thanks to Car Scanner etc) that cell No. 58 suddenly drops its voltage every now and then - so I'm now left with running the car with Car Scanner on to see if it will record cell 58 dropping off when Turtle Mode kicks in - because I don't trust Kia to be able to sort it out themselves!
Some Kia's were bought back from owners and I'm worried I have one of these cars!
MG the same, no idea what was wrong with the car, advised to start replacing random parts to fix window replacement recalibration, ended up being camera was fitted a few mm out, took a independent specialist to find the issue. Dealers struggle with knowledge and experience in these cars.
My experience with main dealers concerning EVs: plug in diagnostic tool. List of tick boxes appear. Replace ALL those parts, regardless if all those parts are faulty. Give you a huge bill. Cross your fingers everything is now working. If not, rinse and repeat. Shutting the boot on your i3S whilst saying you have an EV your aren't worried about did make me raise an eyebrow. If you ever want a chat about my 8 month i3 trial, happy to oblige.
Man walks into a bar...ouch! It was an iron bar.
Yes! Please make the high-mileage used EV (Model S or otherwise) video or video series.
YES! I'd like to see a review of a used Tesla Model S, please! I've considered that car for a while and would welcome your insights.
There’s enough mistrust over new EV’s. “Ordinary” folk in the second hand market will be even more mistrustful, not having a local “fixer” garage they can rely on. One glimmer of hope though is that local colleges are now adding EV training to their automotive courses.
Own a Renault kangoo ze and the heater failed phoned a lot of local garages to no avail ended up fitting it my self did make me think wot if I can't fix it who do I go to...fingers crossed no other failures
Another great video, trying to pre-empt or foresee problems with faulty EV's. Something that I hadn't thought about and one case where an extended ( manufacturers ) warranty might be worth it.
I see you've got some interesting followers below, I'm accustomed to reading T's and C's, but not checking out the T's and B's!!! Obviously YT Spam!!
Cleeverley did a great everything electric podcast almost 2 weeks ago- we need people to take plunge and train. One of the ones in skipton serviced our eNiro which was great (70 plate) but replaced the original pollen filter that Kia keighley had charged to do on 2 previous services - it was filthy.
We stopped using Kia Keighley as for 2 years in a row the told us it had had the engine oil and filters done. The second time I asked if the timing belt was ok and even got them to tell me they had seen it and it was fine!
I have to say I watched the first 10 minutes of that podcast video but gave up.
Basically, I felt that Matt Cleevely spent the first 10 minutes ignoring Quentin Wilson's "what about repairing a battery?" question and it just seemed like a 'sales pitch' of why people should take an EV to their garage 🤨
@@jonathantaylor1998 It's probably best to go by the reported experiences of people who have used Cleevely ... and I have to say they appear to come highly recommended by their customers.
Your video has frightened me more than you can imagine, I’m in regional Victoria the southern part of Australia where charging infrastructure is very poor, and I’m 200km from my dealer. I started looking for repairers and couldn’t find anyone in the entire state that could do anymore than service and EV. I have a new car with no issues but am now worried about the future problems that may arise. Thanks for the wake up call.
I took my electric motorbike (Zero S) to a tyre specialist for a new front tyre. I'd been using them for years for my various cars and bikes. As soon as they saw that the bike was electric they said that they don't work on EVs and couldn't help me. I said something along the lines of "you're replacing a tyre, not going anywhere near anything electrical".....but they were adamant that they don't work on EVs. So I took the bike elsewhere but they lost a customer that day. I won't be using them again for any of my vehicles.
They will be out of business in ten years time.
That was almost certainly down to their insurance policy. At this time it can add a significant difference to the policy premium. I'm guessing that the management couldn't justify it for the amount of business they get from EV's
hey will go out of business pretty soon.
Lets be honest, its going to take time for the knowledge transfer, same happened about 5 years ago with ADAS / Radar calibration in that dealers were charging £1000+ to recode the module, when in fact all they were doing was parking it 1.2m from a wall, and pressing a few buttons to reset it / recalibrate. Once everyone worked out what was happening, you never hear about this anymore. EV's are just the same, if the airbags go off then currently its an instant write off, as the pyro fuse is inside the battery, and not many have the qualification for HV work, currently.
Huge opportunities here for some independents, also we need a huge training program for the technicians, not just the parts cannon guesswork operators.
Good points. There is an understandable wariness by small garages but most of the tasks they're likely to be asked to take on would be well within their capabilities. It's mostly fear of the unknown. I have actually had good experiences with my nearest Tesla Service Centre and their pricing is actually comparable to most other garages ... aside from the hourly labour rate of course ... which is where all main manufacturers/dealers really fall down from the customer perspective.
I used to work for Mercedes at one time. We only had one guy in the shop who was qualified to work on electric vehicles (Hybrids at the time) because of the safety concerns high voltages engendered. I'm hoping things have improved since then (2016).
It’s a really hot day & a man walks out of his shower naked.
He turns to his wife & says, “Phew it’s so hot I think I’m just going to spend the rest of the day naked!” Then he looks at his wife with a grin and asks, “hey, what do you reckon the neighbours would think if I went out to mow the lawn like this?”
His wife looks him up & down & says, “That I married you for your money!”
most garages charge lots for ev servicing- my first car in 2012 said we have done your oil and filter with our peugeot ion
A Tesla does have oil and screw-on filter that is identical in appearance to an ICE car ... also has an oil pump ... (reduction gears and motor cooling functions). Of course it doesn't need to be routinely changed at every service like an ICE car.
My local garage that I have used for years has said that when petrol and diesel cars stop coming to them they will retire
They became mechanics to work on real and complicated engines. EVs don't match what they are interested in, so they are out of there.
Really?
Yes does make you think? Had a leaf for 4 years from new without any problems. Changed it for a new MG4 because the leaf had a 40 kWh battery and MG4 has a 65kWh. Not had any problems and used to take my Nissan for a service only once a year back to my same dealership because a good company, round trip of 80 miles to Canterbury from Gillingham Kent. But this makes you think outside the box ? Bob Blood 😊
How's the mg4 been ? Just I'm looking at one at the moment. I know might be early days but have you had any problems? If so how has the customer service been ,?
Only asking as we're really interested in getting one .
It's got to be something to factor in to your decision, but like with charging infrastructure it's still early days and there's ultimately less to go wrong. I deliberately went for a high volume EV as there would potentially be more repair or after market options than something low volume. But it's also getting harder to get ICE serviced, and there's part supply problems regardless of platform
This has opened my eyes to a potential future problem re repairs. So far I've only had headlight bulbs fail in my 6.5 year old i3 which I can replace myself but I'm not confident anyone other than an expensive BMW dealer would be able to help me out for a more complex diagnostic issue ...
I work for an independent garage (doing advertising). We sold a Tesla which went wrong within our warranty. Tesla charged over £500 just to diagnose. The owner will not touch EVs now.
I think this is the real reason why car insurance has gone up so much this year, costs to repair (if they can find someone to do it) are massive & EVs are getting written off.
That example is not just Tesla. or any another EV I know of a lady with a Renault who was quoted £800 by a main agent after having paid a similar large amount at another garage to unsucesfully repair the failed direction indicators. The main agent would not say that they would even forecast that the £800 of testing would find the fault and if it did how much the final bill would be. This was not an EV but a 10 year old Dacia/Renault IC,
Wrong. In my case my EV costs no more to insure than a comparable ICE.
You raise a good point EVM. There’s still a long way to go in getting an established network of garages that can diagnose and repair the more complex issues on an EV.
I’ve not spoken to any mechanics directly, but if the funding was made available how many would actually WANT to retrain to focus on EVs. Our local garage does a great job maintaining my wife’s 17 yo SLK , but I get the impression he’d tell us where go if we brought our Ioniq in for him to resolve an issue.
I think I might ask for his thoughts on the matter…. 🤔
What do you call a cow with no legs?
Ground beef..
Interesting question about local EV repairs. I checked HEVRA for Derby city and 2 garages are listed, however 1 looks like they will only touch hybrids based on their website and the other gives a description that suggests they maybe only want to deal with Stelantis group EVs. I could be wrong of course, I only read the websites and didn’t call them, but initial investigation is a bit concerning.
It’s a big problem Andy
Had a Auris hybrid non starter and eventually found a HEVRA garage to look at it . Took two months and £2000 to recharge the battery cells . Friend has a 16 plate Golf GTE at a VW main dealer that requires the hybrid battery replacing . Good news under warranty (just) . Bad news up to 12 months wait for the part 😮
What's got two legs and bleeds? - half a dog!!!
I work in the vehicle repair industry and we train those who work in body repair shops. The complications brought to the process by the vehicle being an EV are significant add and body repair shops need to make significant alterations to accommodate the dangers of handling And working safely with evs. Especially where the battery pack is integral to the vehicle's construction. In this case when it is removed the body may have to be supported by special jig. This alone makes it expensive for smaller independent companies to do even the most basic work on these cars.
I'm wondering if the Right to repair laws that keep coming in will put an end to the structural battery pack in a few years. Then again think Tesla are looking to be the automotive Apple and keep everything in house as much as possible and as hard for home or 3rd parties to fix as possible
Isn’t having to remove the battery a pretty serious repair? I’d have thought your car was written off at that point?
@@edc1569 Yes if the battery pack is damaged enough the cost of repair could mean a write-off. But The packs are designed to be removed if needed. If you car needs a respray you can't have the batteries in the heated spray booth. Also you have to be extra careful using a hydrolic ramp where you put the lifting arms incase you damage the pack.
@@edc1569 Same with any other major component, you have to make a call what's worth while. Zoe battery gat be got for about £3k, Model 3 about £7, if the car is worth it, replace it.The guy who's on 1.2 Million miles in his Model s has had 4 batteries, and still going strong so felt it's worth keeping going.
Our local HEVRA concentrates on electrifying classics. I get the impression they’ve not interested in specialist repairs (and, having a small workshop, maybe don’t have the resources to do them). I've been looking after my own cars for 50 years, so happy to tackle most jobs. But I'm obviously not going anywhere near high voltage DC!
My experience with main dealers over the past 20 years is that most are rubbish. Main dealers use technicians and NOT mechanics. Last year our KIA lost power and would not accelerate. Main KIA dealer found small leak in radiator so replaced under warranty. I did say that wouldn't cause the loss of power and I had scanned the car with a £30 scan tool that said MAF sensor fault. KIA dealer assured us the MAF was fine which they were correct. Got car back with same fault, no acceleration above 40 mph. Took the car back and the "Master Tech" looked at it (I think with his eyes closed). KIA dealer said possible leak on a hose that they refitted. Car collected but with same fault. I took the air intake off and noticed the intercooler as bowed. Surprise surprise it needed a new intercooler fixing the fault.
With EV's you will have to go to the main dealership because so many systems are linked to the High Voltage battery which only the main dealer can touch or you void your battery warranty. Porsche Taycan's have cabin heater failures which all cars will have but the battery coolant is linked to it. £2500 plus to fix at Porsche if car is out of warranty (3 years). Ioniq wing mirror camera over £4000 to replace so Audi will be more. EV's are a main dealers wet dream as they know you have to use them. KIA are £160 per hour labour so Audi will be more and Porsche / BMW will be eye watering expensive.
Maybe if you bought the Model S. your journey through keeping it on the road would highlight this problem further, and get more people involved in finding a solution, maybe HEVRA would start to seriously consider the tiering of the garages. I think I believed like you that all HEVRA garages did repairs, but was seriously worried about testing it.
Great thought provoking video, thank you
When you say "go to a specialist" garage rather than the main dealer, what do you mean? Specialist in electrical faults? And how do you find one of these? Cheers
I go to a VW Group specialist for example. They’re familiar with the hardware and have the diagnostic tools.
The thing about this is the demand. Since so few ev have problems and the ones on the road are new it's not profitable to run a garage just for that yet. Where I live only the official Renault dealership can fix related to ev motors or diagnostics, luckily for us they accept any ev and not just their own brand
Venison’s dear isn’t it?
This has been an eye opener ‘cos I genuinely thought that all HEVRA garages could repair EVs. I’m in the same neck of the woods as you so Cleevley’s would also be tricky - especially if the car was undriveable. Not convinced the local dealer could fix it either.
I'm sure I've seen James from Cleevely's working in Scotland. Bit further North than you chaps, I was surprised to hear Andy say he didn't think their mobile technicians wouldn't come up his way. I wrote and asked them if they came down south and they do, having my first service with them here in the southeast later this year.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t, but they can only do certain things on the roadside.
Anything requiring time to diagnose won’t be done at your house, especially with equipment needed.
@@ElectricVehicleMan yes, apologies, of course you did and that makes perfect sense. I have ME and tend to forget things instantly or only remember partial details. Sorry, as soon as I read that I had instant recall and felt a bit of a pillock! 🤯
Good luck to anyone buying one of the latest imports - from companies with very little dealer back up.
What's green and hairy and goes up and down?
A gooseberry in a lift.
In my mother's town there's an accident repair centre that we take our cars to for their MOTs, and before buying the Leaf (and now Fortwo EQ) we asked about getting repairs done, and they said for the most part it's just a normal car, it's only the HV stuff that's different.
They have all the equipment to be able to do it, but because it's not their main line of work the waiting time could be horrendous.
My mechanic won't touch them, especially for servicing as it doesn't pay. You must still be knowledgeable about working around/near the HV system. (Edd China YT did a course the other year if you want a mechanic's pov).
I use Wesley motors on the wirral and they service EVs and have EV certificates on the office wall for their mechanics. I have a 2017 i3 and nothing has gone wrong yet so I will have to wait for a fault to develop to find out if they can fix it.
My Nissan (eNV200) has developed a light ratchetty noise when moving off in the morning. A fairly classic 'That's not right.' that goes away with a few on and offs. The local larger Nissan garage seems to know what it is doing but is expensive, and I'm not entirely convinced their mechanics are EV committed. Your video was nicely timed as I'd already contacted Cleevely mobile, who as you note advertise that they cover the UK. I'm fairly sure it's not the EV part that's wrong, quite possibly ABS so I think it may be cheaper to fix than having to go for a wallet-ectomy at the main dealer. ..Joke well here's one I actually made myself. Question. How many SAS does it take to change a lightbulb? Answer. Maybe one maybe six, you probably won't find out, but it might be a good idea to be out of the house when it happens.
Have you tried “cleaning” the brakes? Go to a clear stretch of road, get up some speed and brake hard. EVs tend to build up rust on the brakes because they are rarely used. Could explain the noise.
@@RichardASlack I'm going to have to disassemble some of the wheel/braking system as it's so erratic. The disc is recently replaced so I doubt rust is causing it and suspect mis-assembly by the mechanic, or conceivably a small stone or similar. Every time I try to record it or get a garage to look at it, it goes silent. Still, I think it proves my EV has a sense of humour.
Yes please a review of an early Tesla Model S. Mine is Dec 2015 S 90D and I have very strong (positive!) views about my last 3 years of ownership, is my experience typical? I'd like to know. Independent Cleevely EV in Cheltenham are my go to independent Tesla garage, but 100 mile round trip/2hrs, though worth it. Shame they're not closer. Totally agree with your comments!
How your suspension, any clinks or clunks . Had to change several components on mine. Much better for it.
@@AdrianMcDaid yes had a few over the 3 years too. Not too expensive fortunately. The car has done nearly 100k miles so all to be expected.
I took our Leaf for a service at a HEVRA approved garage. He did repair and diagnose issues. His main issue with EV’s was the cost of the specialist parts and he personally would stick to his diesel!!! You’re 100% correct we need government intervention to up skill garages. Now’s the day time to do it before the millions EVs being sold now need a non dealer network
I'm lucky , in the Midlands I have 2 trusted garages, as you say Matt Cleevely , and closer at Warwick, Ecofix, both good.
Good topic - thank you. Selfishly I’m only 30 miles from Cleevely in Cheltenham for my MG ZS EV.
I'm with you regarding a local specialist. I only take my Q5 there and wouldn't touch an Audi main dealer with it.
Reminds me how back in 2009 I had to drive 30mi to a completelly different part of London to a scetchy MOT centre where they agreed to MOT my EV. They were then shocked how easy it was for them to do it and started accepting EVs. Same then happened few years later in Barcelona. Funniest was that they almost failed me as there was no exhaust to measure the emissions and it was not allowed to pass call without emission test. 30min of the mechanics arguing with their bosses and ITV (MOT) cert was done... They also had back then forst EV charging stations but since there were no other EVs apart of mine, none of those chargers worked. I tried to contact the ES EV charging company few times. They promptly did responded to me just mere 3 years later...
I spoke to my local EV sales/service/repair shop earlier today about the fact that the aren’t registered on HEVRA, and the deal appears to be that there are a number of competing registers that such repairers can join. It costs them money, so they have to believe it is worth registering. Our local place, Buckingham Stanley near Cambridge (UK) are not registered with HEVRA, but are registered with EVA. So just a note that you should utilise both these registers if you are wanting to find EV servicing/repairs in your local area.
I've been lucky with cars for decades and only had cars that had very few faults. Two cars were exceptional and had well over 250k miles with zero faults (LS400). I put that down to the fact they were always serviced to the manufacturer schedule. 80k miles into my first EV and its never had a service because it doesn't need one apparently. So far, luck is on my side. Fingers crossed it doesn't need fixing until there are garages around to do it because I expect it to last at least 250k miles. We always keep cars for at least 10 years. I hope I'm not delusional.
Fair comments there. It's a lot that don't do repairs beyond shared ICE parts. You can however diagnose a Tesla very deep by itself on the service menu. Might be worth doing one and fix yourself. Main issue are heater, 12V, and air suspension.
I have actually seen two garages in north wales with large banners outside, we service and repair Electric vehicles 😊
Even under warranty, if I bought a Tesla it’d be almost 50 miles to the nearest service centre. (And I’m not in the middle of nowhere-in a city with a motorway and main line rail connection)
I watched this when it came out and your piece just became real for me with a car under warranty that developed a fault / won’t accept a charge. Ioniq EV 38 kw, otherwise very reliable needs to go into my local dealer for a warranty repair. Problem I found is that dealers only seem to have one person trained on EV’s so earliest I could get was 2 1/2 weeks wait!. Phoned 5 dealers and one had their only mechanic off because he had a hip problem up to 6weeks wit and they have no one else trained. Everyone else had a min 4 week delay.
I’m fortunate as I have more than one car but if manufacturers want us to buy EV’s they need to invest more in support for warranty repairs
Cleevley doing my service once fixed but no way I can transport my car for repairs! That’s why I still have an ice car as a back up!
Watched all the way - good point raised but this lack of repair network has been a known and talked about issue since ev's became a thing.
Thanks for highlighting this issue. I also thought that there were local garages that fixed ev's.
I can see a massive opportunity for the next generation of mechanics, if only land wasn’t so dammned expensive so the incumbents could face some competition
we've got a good local HEVRA garage in paisley - the guys are happy to work on EVs that the main dealer insists "needs a new battery" (mitsubishi outlander with a flooded battery- needed stripped down and dried out) or a "new motor" (zoe that needed an inverter part). main dealers are overpriced and use under trained cheap technicians then take a huge cut of the high hourly charges.
We need more support as you say.
I just bought my first EV a few months ago and hadn't thought too much about repair since I have a warranty. But I am the kind of guy to keep a vehicle for a decade or longer if I can manage it. I certainly hope that mechanics start getting into the EV repair trade before I need them. Since i live in a very hot and humid climate, i am almost certain my a/c will go out before anything else and I don't want to be turned away due to my bright orange high voltage cables under the hood or have to pay a huge premium either.
Why not simply avoid all those potential problems and buy a cheaper and reliable ICE Toyota Camry...
@@jackmorganfiftyfive oh, that's simple to answer! It's been cheaper, more reliable, and carefree running around with a Bolt EV. The car is quiet, responsive, and has smooth acceleration, braking, and dealt with the ice storm no issues! I love my little Bolt and wouldn't go for an ICE ever again.
And main dealers are only going to want to keep 'their' customers happy. ie. those who are buying a new/new-ish car from them.
I've known them inflate the problems well past the value of the car, and like Mr Ben, the salesman appears from nowhere to show you a newer car as a replacement.
I've had one dealing with my local HEVRA garage. Wanted all day for a service they said would take a couple of hours. Also promised to call me back about fixing one minor issue. Still waiting for that call 4 months later.
2017 S100D here. Phenomenal car. Had an fuse blowing issue, spoke with Cleverly (not close either) but even they said Tesla. Was part of the harness, though it took Tesla a fair bit to solve!
Prior cars Audi A8/S8s and found forums better than the dealers!
Interesting with Tesla they now have a service tool (Toolbox) that only requires a cheap cable. Subscription based but actually pretty reasonable compared with SOME dealer tools.
I think that there's more fear about the unknown, than it being THAT hard!
A couple of years ago I wanted my aircon checking on my Hyundai Ioniq. I ended up going to the main dealer because nobody else would look at it. Not much has changed.
Seen a dinky Leaf on a low loader, loaded behind a massive excavator. Looked like it was sat there thinking “I’m a digger!” Not specifically a joke but self musings that crack me up.
Seriously though, for any small issues mostly run of the mill servicing etc, my local MoT station & garage have already said they’re happy to serve. They have another garage nearby which looks after some fleet hybrid taxis. I’m hoping this bodes well for more expertise to naturally spark. If there’s money to be made . . .
im only 15 miles away from cleeveley luckily once my warranty runs out.