Temperature limit of a canister stove?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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I saw a video where a guy in super cold weather was running a Jetboil on canisters. He wrapped a loose windscreen around the running stove. In that somewhat warmer microclimate, the canister ran fine. For what it's worth.
It's easy to see from this video, the role white gas stoves play in winter.
Thanks for the video. Proof positive, I’ll stick to my old WhisperLite.
For those who don't know, as you are building your camp up, pull out your canister from your bag 1st, keep it next to your body as you establish your night home. It will warm up the fuel and have better performance out in the woods as opposed to starting it cold.
Great video and real time data for all to see. I am going to mention this vid to my friends who want to venture into the cold.
Used my Windpro II a few days ago on a -8F morning with a half-full canister. Worked okay because I had kept it in my sleeping bag overnight.
Forget the canisters. I'm still using my brass Optimus 00 kerosine stove and my Seva 123 white gas I have used the past 55 years. They have never failed me in the cold. I have used them on backcountry cross country ski trips at temps below -20 F -28.9 C. For two person trips. The weight is comparable to the canister stove and burn hotter. No canister to dispose of. Both stoves need to be primed but that only takes a minute or two in extreme cold. The Optimus 00 has a built-in pump to pressurize. Two highly reliable stove that have never failed me.
Brilliant upload bud, 👏👏
Good to know! I have never been camping in temperatures lower than -14 degrees C.
Damn, I need to test this. This cold weather this weekend is perfect, thanks for the reminder. (Only -5 F in my hood of Denver)
There is another option; by adding an adapter you could use a 1lb propane canister. Yes, the 1lb canister is heavier but it also contains more gas. In the winter you are going to carry more fuel anyway to melt snow. The vapor temperature of propane is -42 C (-44 F) and butane is 0.6 C (33 F) at sea-level atmospheric pressure. A propane/butane mixture which is in many backpacking fuel canisters lies somewhere between these limits. I suspect that in colder temperatures when using a propane/butane mixture, the propane will burn off first and the remaining butane can't sustain the vapor pressure to maintain fuel pressure to the stove and therefore stove performance will suffer over time.
Those 1lbs bottles are HEAVY. the steel is 14 oz. If weight/space isn't an issue then it's fine, but I can get the equivalent of two propane bottles of fuel in a 7 oz bottle if I switch over to liquid fuel. Saves a ton of space an weight when it matters. Cheap too.
Maybe you should finally buy in Decathlon a fuel can -25°C and give it a try?
Yep... Is what it is with canister stoves. Good backyard demo here that needs to be performed, familiarized, and evaluated by stove users... well in advance of reliance in demanding cold. Various strategies to better mitigate the scenarios (some more fiddly to radical, even risky than others)... but fiddling work around solutions, taking additional time, or taking risks in super cold conditions are not good game planning. Boil times are a tough go deep into the minus -0 F temps.
Good test. In winter I keep the Whisperlite liquid fuel stove in the backpack. In Calgary too.
The metric systeme is used so that they can say 4" inches ist 10 cm or 100 mm !
…now we all know. Thanks for the demo, Kane! 🙏🏼
Im taking my Firemaple again tomorrow for a trip. Should be around zero F in the morning possibly lower. Going to see if I can make another season before a possible change to MSR or something else of quality. Bring extra snacks. Good luck on your trip and any more info on the subject would be appreciated
Good demonstration of how the temp is working against you with canister system.
New Brunswick Canada
Super demo! Thanks.
Great test!
By the way it is much less expensive to refill these cans with less costly fuel source ! There are connectors available ! Don't listen to them that say it ain't safe ( fuel can sellers ?), I have refilled one can many many times ( experimenting to be sure ), no leaks no explosions ! The spray can looking ones are far less money ( I like these stoves better than the stoves that use the spray can looking ones ), or maybe the larger 1 lb cans ( don't know how many grams that would be ) !
I do that for my summer fuel, but once it gets cold out I like knowing that my canisters are 100% reliable.
Great test. Also, disturbing that it actually got colder here in Calgary than -25. Haha.
Same story with butane stoves...zero degrees C is limit. Dual fuel butane/propane cookers can run propane at colder temps. Really a white gas show below zero is preferred.
Hey Kane, thanks for this test. I've was wondering if sleeping with the can in your bag and/or keeping the can you would like to use most immediately would help to keep everything working as intended. Checked the comments and saw someone recommending the same. Guessing that once lighted, the proximity of the can to the heat source would keep everything happy. Would be cool to see a test, perhaps this could help you on your trip.
Hi Nate - The can I was using from 2:24 onward was in my house and was completely warm. So yes, warming the can in a sleeping bag or jacket works and gives you a bit of output. Depending on the outside temp and how you position the canister might be enough to provide some heat feedback to the can to maintain output. But in the conditions I was testing the canister just couldn't keep up and cooled down too fast. Just a matter of minutes and the flame was a trickle. We are talking below -25C with a wind chill down to the mid -30s Celsius. In these conditions, or when there is a potential for extreme cold it doesn't make sense to risk not having a working stove. Some places will never see below -15C or -20C, but here the average daily low is -18C. -25C happens all the time.
The scientific in you had to make the real experience ! Hypotesis, experience and conclusion 👍
Great video demonstration, canister stoves perform poorly in extreme cold. Dont be caught off guard and left cold + hungry.
Alcohol stoves are the best in very cold temps, in my opinion. Yes I know that white gas has a higher energy density than alcohol, but white gas stoves waste a lot of their fuel with those rocket engine blowtorch burners - they boil water fast at the cost of using lots of gas. Alcohol stoves don't need special fuel bottles that weigh a half pound empty, pumps, hoses, valves, etc, and spare parts kits for when something breaks. They're silent. Alcohol isn't nasty and toxic and super volatile like gasoline - you can put it in a soda bottle and if it spills on your gear it will just evaporate. Many alcohol stoves can double as twig stoves, so you don't need to bring lots of spare fuel just in case. I have screw-top burners like Trangia and Kojin, and I just put them in my pocket while setting up the tent to warm them (alternatively. a match held to the alcohol for several seconds will do the trick).
Yes and no😂 alcohol stove is cleaner, lighter and quieter. But no, it is the lease efficient compared to all other kinds of fuel. To boil 1L of water from snow, white gas, both noise jet engine stoves (like Optimus Polaris), or silent stoves (like MSR Whisperlite) can be done within 25ish minutes with no hassles. Alcohol stove on the other hand, costs 30+ min at least, and also needs to refill the stove during the boiling period…which is not “reliable” in my opinion because in freezing winter, “less operation” , less human error, is better. Less operation means don't need to watch the fire constantly, don't need to move the pot that is filled with water/snow down and up again( might cause spilled) etc. The White gas stove only needs to add feel more pumps, and the pumping motion won't affect the stove and the pot on top. Which is less human error, and more “reliable”. The physical reliability of the stove itself has been tested again and again. If you say the White gas stove might break in the wilderness, I could also say the alcohol stove might get dent or punctured, or the plastic fuel bottle(because people use alcohol stoves to save weight) might crack in the freezing winter too😂. If hikers already using canister stoves, they are more willing to transfer to a white gas stove rather than slow alcohol stove. Just a bit more heavier, but with way better performance. I would rather carry even 300-500 more grams with my white gas stove, which can provide hot food fast. rather than use a super light alcohol stove but need to wait half an hour for a few cups of hot chocolate 😂.
The boiling time is enormously dependent on the particular stove you're using. If it's just a basic pot stand with a minimal or no windscreen, then yes forget about melting snow with an alcohol burner when it's really cold. But - and this is not to promote a product - try a Caldera Cone and see how much faster it is (the pot stand is the windscreen and it completely surrounds the pot, at the cost of having to buy a cone that matches the pot). You're right that it's annoying to remove the pot and refill the burner, but a Trangia for example holds quite a bit of alcohol and depending on pot size and temperature, you might not need to refill. In terms of the alcohol stove getting dented or punctured, sure if you put it on a log, take aim, and hit it with an ax! Seriously though, the ability to burn twigs, which (again not to promote) the Ti-Tri Cone stove does extremely well, offers a huge margin of safety. Where I ski and camp there are always trees, and I love not having to worry at all about how much fuel I've got because I can easily just burn twigs. (Again here the stove matters - I have a Firebox Nano and I've found that it's just too small to keep a twig fire going strong without continual feeding. The Ti-Tri can hold a much higher volume of wood and develop a nice little bed of coals so you don't have to constantly babysit.)
So I just did a little experiment using two different alcohol burner/pot combinations with the same stove, the Ti-Tri Sidewinder cone style stove. I heated up 900ml of water that started at 0C. The first combo was using a Trangia burner with a Toaks 1600ml pot with a lid. The air temp was -14C, it took about 15 minutes to get the water to 80C, and there was plenty of alcohol left in the burner. The second combo was using a Kojin burner with a Toaks 1350ml pot with lid. The air temp was -13C, it took about 11 minutes to get the water to 80C, and 3 more minutes to get the water to 100C, and after it got to 100, there was almost no alcohol left in the Kojin burner (it holds 40ml I think). The Trangia burns hotter than the Kojin in general, but when using the 1350ml pot with this stove, the pot nestles completely inside the stove (which is basically a windscreen), so that's why it was more efficient than the 1600ml pot which has to sit up on pegs (maybe I could have lowered the 1600 pot though and still got the Trangia to burn and with better efficiency). Granted, -14C is not extreme cold, and I wasn't melting snow, but I think this experiment give us some sense of how well an alcohol burner can work with a good stove/windscreen.
That's interesting - I have the Ti-Tri Sidewinder wit h a Kojin for a very small Evernew 600 mL pot. I used alcohol as my main summer stove for years, but for some reason moved away from it. This fall I did the Rockwall trip with Dan Durston and he was using a Caldera style alcohol stove. I had forgotten how nice and peaceful they are, so picked up the Ti-Tri. I will use that as my summer stove this season.
I will see about getting a Ti-Tri for my 1.3L Evernew. Curious about how much fuel you would need per day, and if it's compatible with my Trangia burner since it has a higher capacity. Alcohol is simple, cheap to run, and quiet. All great features.
@@flt528 What a fun experiment! I'll definitely find some similar cone-style stoves around my area and try them out to see the difference. We didn't do the boil time test last time(about a year ago), but what we did was the ~-20 degree C ignition test in my balcony. We used the SOTO torch lighter and found the alcohol stove couldn't light up, but my 4-season gas stove (with a heating tube) and liquid fuel stove could light up and burn properly after the heating tube was warm enough. With all the information together, that's why I conclude in my first reply that I prefer to carry extra weight for the liquid one but not use the alcohol one. But yeah, I'll definitely do an oil test after I get a similar stove with the local fuel(I'm not in the States, btw.)
So + 20 F ? How many lbs or oz is a gram ?
So don't freeze your fuel ?
Babysitting your fuel gets old fast on multi-day trips. Putting cans into your jacket or sleeping bag, it's just something else to worry about.
Great real world demonstration. Think I'll stick to using my Simmerlite and Dragonfly for winter camping and Pocket Rocket Deluxe for 3 season use 🔥🏕️❄️🇨🇦