Fix is simple: If you're within 1 meter, pullout does the full damage. If you're outside 1 meter (i.e blademancer), you do much less damage. I still think blademancer should do some damage, no problem with that
@@CR4CKSM0K3R word. people want everyone to use the same weapon they want to use but then when its the only weapon in the game, they are bored because lack of variety and go play something else.
Here’s an idea. Make blademancer only work on missed projectiles and AI. Or even make it so that you have to have line of sight of the projectile to pullout/retrive. Make pullout damage normal again but tweak how blademancer works
The berserker interaction was the only thing they needed to remove. You were able to "1 shot" with the chu ko nu up to like 30 meters with a spam weapon.
i agree. i average 6 star and encountered this strategy max 5 times, so i dont think its even close to broken, cause if it was, it'd be everywhere. i dumped over 100 hours into this event already, and can say this.
I really liked blademancer as is but if they REALLY had to remove damage, i think it should be reworked to increase bleed severity/reapply bleed. That way it still does damage and it applies extra pressure. But i still want that sweet oneshot. Just my 2 cents
Thanks for this. I'm just annoyed that people not using Blademancer are now heavily disadvantaged by the nerf to pullout damage at melee range. These weapons and tools have always been harder to hit with, and do less damage due to pen, than their rifle or shotgun alternatives. Brutal pullout damage was the sweetness to balance that. There has to be a better way.
I completely disagree. I'd like to respond point by point: 1) The Crossbow CAN be consistent: shotbolts (almost) always one-shot, even when hitting armshots. Regular bolts are supposed to work like they currently do: you trade consistency for retrievable ammo and utility. I don't know why you feel like it HAS to be at the same level of consistency as shotguns. I don't feel they are comparable at all as they have different purposes, which leads me to: 2) Comparing a Mosin with a Crossbow makes no sense. The Crossbow is designed to be effective from short to medium range. The Mosin is designed to be most effective from medium to long range. Why do you want them to have similar characteristics? Again: they are completely different weapons which should be effective at their respective distances. It is not necessary for every weapon to be in the exact same level as every other weapon in every situatuon. By that logic, slugs should have no deviation, as hitting a 150 m headshot with slugs already is quite difficult due to its heavy drop. 3) Imma skip the berserker bit 4) This point is really weak. Yeah, sometimes you hit a funky armshot that shouldn't have happened, but what about all the armshots you hit that weren't caused by a weird interaction? Maybe you barely missed because, well, no one lands every shot. You missed, yet you still deserve a kill because of "consistency"? Imagine if slugs could armshot-kill. The game would be rewarding poor aim. Besides, landing an armshot at close range still does a LOT of damage + heavy bleeding. It inflicts a lot of pressure, which it's nothing to scoff at. 5) Lastly, I want to adress something that not many people are talking about regarding Blademancer, and that's ammo economy. This traits bumps up your ammo pool to infinity. If you are using retrievable bolts, you simply cannot run out of ammo, which I feel it's really, really dumb. Also, it allows the player to spam throwables, as you have effectively an infinite ammount of them. Suddenly, throwing your spear no longer is a last resource move. With all that being said... It wouldn't be awful if Crytek wants to keep Blademancer as a scarce trait. Yeah, it can be annoying, but it's scarcity balances it out I believe.
Yeah I dunno why people seem to neglect the fact that you basically get infinite ammo with blademancer. This effect along is already a very big deal (and arguably OP), not to mention you also deal extra damage to AI/players. Giving a certain type of weapons/tools infinite amount of ammo is already unhealthy concept.
Bro I was about to comment the same thing, like he actually compare a mosin to a crossbow and cry about how hard it is to hit a crossbow shot at range. How can someone that play this game almost daily and for a living doesn't understand anything about weapon effective range?
@KaizenMord I think a better comparison would be comparing romero slugs with the crossbow. They are similar in several way: both are single shot, single projectile weapons that have one tap potential at close range and sometimes can one tap at medium range (Romero requires headshot while crossbow requires either a headshot or upper torso shot). If we make this comparison we can see that crossbow sacrifices penetration andconsistency within 15m for the silence feature, retrievable ammo, more damage meaning more one tap range to the upper torso, and the bleed effect. We can all agree on the fact that consistency matters a lot in hunt, and that's also the major point Khalamity was trying to make in the video. That's why crossbow can get these great benefits I mentioned without being completely broken. And I would argue that this trade off is in general fair and balanced. If we make the crossbow as consistent as the Romero slugs within 15m, why would anyone pick a Romero over a crossbow with steel bolts when it's basically a Romero silencer with slugs dumdum ammo that deals significantly more damage and you can also retrieve your ammo?
@ Yeah like his first point is not even wrong, the comparison is part is just stupidity. Reward for hitting harder shot does exist, it's called a headshot. Him complaining that a 80m crossbow shot doesn't kill is just absurd.
@KaizenMord I wouldn't say he's complaining about crossbow doesn't kill at 80m since that's not the main point he's trying to make. But he definitely could have made a better comparison by comparing the crossbow to a Romero slugs. That would probably make a stronger argument.
Strongly disagree with a lot of the specifics, shotguns are MORE effected by the arm shot mechanics than bow and crossbow. Beyond that, a bow and cross bow should simply not be lethal to the arm or legs ever. Buckshot does not pen limbs and I have had multiple 100% spread hitting shotgun shots be nonlethal within 9 meters because of high arm hits both with and without extenuating circumstances. What you say around 12:45, the bolt weapons just should not be lethal to the arm regardless of penetration where as a shotgun to your arm would 100% still kill you (fixing the pen would be great for hunt but would realistically not apply to bolt or arrow weapons. Bow and crossbow should ideally be bad for the game to be healthy imo, at least with mosin I can HEAR where it comes from, bow rats can shoot from bushes with impunity if I am not looking directly at them. There is something called effective range, these weapons should be literally USELESS at long range except for headshots. Like you said at around 12:20, that should be the case, if players want to play weapons way beyond their effective range that is their choice, if shotguns are useless at range why can't the silent and bleed afflicting weapon be the same. Constantly appealing to arbitrarily high damage values for 1 shot is not valid to me, I understand 200 > 150 but those values are mostly in place so that killing meatheads or bosses feels reasonable. (Delete if u want ik I'm professional yapper)
1. I'm not saying shotguns aren't effected by arms and legs. I'm saying that they were strickly buffed to be more consistent and everyone bitched about dying to shotguns. Then they settled down once they realized the knee jerk reaction wasn't quite right. the crossbow with blademancer is more consistent now and everyone is bitching about that. If Crytek gave it a few more months, I'm sure people would settle down yet again. 2. Are you positive shotguns don't pen arms because they pen wood. It would be the same pen logic as Winfield frontier. You also are getting however many pellets vs. 1 bolt or arrow. Even if that was the case, I would still like shotguns to kill on side profile up close. same for crossbow. You can hear mosin but you can't hear Krag Silencer and even if you can hear mosin if it is over 100 meters most weapons can't contest including blademancer crossbow/bow. 3. when you talk about the health of the game, you refer to your playstyle. From what you said, I garner you don't play a lot of bow and crossbow and don't really care what happens to them as long as they don't kill you as often as they have recently because you are annoyed. You specifically said that you think bow and crossbow should be BAD for the health of the game. What about Mosin being uncontested at most ranges except by other long ammo? what about explosive crossbow (doesn't use blademancer btw), Krag Silencer at most ranges? Dolche? revive bolt spam? maynard bleed? Sparks fast fingers? levering? dualies? etc. the list goes on and on. If you care so much about the health of the game, there are a lot of things that are more important to fix for the game to be healthy in my opinion. These things are higher on the list then blademancer bow/crossbow. BUT blademancer is new and people don't know how to play around it yet, so they blame blademancer as to why they died from a crossbow at 70m, instead of maybe their playstle or standing out in the open (crossbow can't pen). If you are getting hit from a crossbow at 70m, I'd say they deserve the kill and you deserve to die. If you get hit by a marathon headshot at 200m, you deserve to die, and the person who hit that shot deserves the kill. the biggest change to the meta in my opinion this patch was Surefoot. That trait is insane and is permanent, but it slid under the rug because dying from blademancer makes people feel bad. someone running from you and healing and then dying to a full health enemy with a shotgun feels like you just died to a shotgun again, so they don't understand they lost because of surefoot gave them enough time to heal. they just blame the shotgun. 4. if you have trouble finding rats. Get this thing in the game called Dark Sight Boost. It's available at boss compounds, the circus, one of the pacts gives it to you on loot, and the rng machine can give it to ya as well. DSB literally gives you wall hacks FURTHER then the kill range of blademancer. I'd say silence is one of the benefits of having a projectile almost as slow as a throwing knife/derringer. I'm also not saying that the bow and crossbow are perfectly balanced. I am saying that there is a lot of Good stuff in the game and bow and crossbow should be among those for those who like to play them. 5. shotguns might be useless at 60-100m but they can pen. crossbows and bows can't pen and have a slight chance of kill at those ranges. also. shotguns are better in close range. Higher muzzle velocity, most have a faster firerate, can pen, accurate without adsing if not using slugs, and they shoot straight. Sounds like once again, tradeoffs.
@@khalamity2249 Your 3 comment is rather contradicting lmao, You named Mosin being uncontested but then listed a bunch of the other weapons, and completely missed this guys points about them needing to be bad for the game, because it perfectly enables the stealth hide in bush play style, if you are gonna be stealthy it should be for around a compound so it would be close quarters but blademancer was allowing the silent almost untraceable shot to be a long range killer in the right hands. Even the silences got changed so they arent as quite. The Crossbow, being Silent, applying a ton of pressure because of the heavy bleed, having infinite ammo because you can just press E, and long range thanks to steelbolt, SHOULD NOT one shot past 30-50 meters let alone the range it was at before nerf
TBH IDK TF you are talking about. When I started leveling prestige I frequently played quick play mode. Finding a shotgun or crossbow in QP was like achieving half of the victory. Since that time, the crossbow become my stealth weapon of choice. It was perfectly balanced for "Predator"-style gameplay where you eliminate enemies one-by-one by getting close while using sneaky rotation. Now, I don't try to play like that nor pick a crossbow because it is nearly useless in high-tier lobbies. And it's ok. I can easily comprehend how it frustrates people in any session that is lower than 5-star. (majority of playerbase). So, I disagree and hit a dislike, though I love your content. Holding the average online, your average Twitch lurker. P.S.: recent fix is complete BS and indicates a lack of understanding from Crytek
I can comprehend frustration from players. But those same players aren't frustrated by explosive crossbow? levering explosive mako? levering centeniel or infantry? dualies? nitro one taps? frag spam? revive bolt spam? the list goes on and on. My point being there are a lot of frustrating things to die to in hunt. should we remove all of it? you said yourself that you don't pick crossbow for high tier lobbies. Wouldn't the point of buffing some weapons be to make them playable in higher tier lobbies because higher tier lobbies will generally use what is best or at least good so that in turn, means crossbow and bow aren't good enough? I agree btw, i barely see a crossbow unless it has explosive ammo in any lobby outside of this event Thanks for lurking and hopefully you can understand where im coming from.
Khalamity, I love you dude and I normally support your thoughts, but sadly I can’t agree with this one. Blademancer just made me hate the game so much. Dying while behind cover was the worst experience I’ve had in hunt. Yes, other weapons can pen and kill behind a wall sure, but those work when you have the skill and knowledge to pull it off. Whereas with Blademancer you simply press a button and they’re dead. I hope they keep it for a QoL trait, but the pullout damage just makes the game way too easy and it’s not fun to die to constantly. I’m one of those veterans that want them to make the game harder, not easier. I do just fine with the Crossbow & Bow w/o Blademancer so I honestly don’t think players need it. Don’t hate me man, this is just my opinion and I’m sure the event data/feedback will see how the majority of players feel.
its ok to have different opinions my guy. love you too. no hate from this side. im sorry blademancer made you hate the game so much but do you think some of that might be how people have felt about other weapons etc for literal years? weapons that you may have found fun or are weapons that you personally love. lets say you love the sparks but i say that it's high dmg (149 dmg when hunters have 150 health) has made me hate the game so much. Should that also be removed? what if most of the hunt audience agrees with me? then should it be removed? what if I make 40 threads on reddit with different accounts? then should it be removed? These reasons aren't the best reasons to balance a game because the majority of people could be wrong. My own personal experience could be wrong, and reddit threads could be wrong. At the end of the day it's up to crytek how they want to balance the game and I'm just giving my opinion on weapons that cannot contest the meta currently. the only bow or crossbow build that can contest shotguns or rifles is explosive crossbow. Which i would say is less skill then blademancer stuff and has been in the game for literal years. Why aren't there a billion threads on reddit about explosive crossbow? because people are very knee jerk (reaction) oriented and base a lot of opinions on emotions very quickly. It's easy to feel like the world is falling apart when stuff doesn't go your way. But is it really falling apart? "I have bad time so thing is bad." Is about as far as a lot of people think. What is bad for one might not be bad for the other etc. So I think it's good to hear both sides to have a clearer view on a matter. I know people have talked about how much they hate blademancer. Haven't heard from the other side, which I'm on. So I'm giving my reasoning as to why I like blademancer. that's all.
@ I think the Community’s opinion does matter on how the game is balanced. After all, we’re the ones playing the game day in and day out along with financially supporting the game. Blademancer doesn’t require any skill to be used effectively whereas all other weapons do. Idk man, that’s just my opinion, but as I said in my previous comment, Blademancer makes the game very miserable for me and not only me but the friend group I play with. Your friends with Post Malone, right? I’m sure he could ask the Devs what made them nerf Blademancer recently and the statistics along with it. Heck, maybe even make a poll about it and see how everyone feels. Be sure to add “pre-nerf” to the poll. You’d been very surprised how many people love it because it’s cheesy and not balanced. I honestly think the Devs have done a great job (until recently) about making sure the game is balanced and fair. I’ve got my own opinions about Revive Bolts and the such, but again I’m just a veteran that enjoys the “old ways of Hunt” and hate change, but I’m just one of the few people that aren’t afraid to admit that 😂 Regardless, whatever the Devs do I hope it’s for the best of the game and this game continues to shine for many many more years to come.
@@SkullyXbox I never said the commmunity's opinion DOESN'T matter. I said it's not the best way to balance a game. You can take things into consideration like the community opinion, but if the community is going to kill the game, then that might not be the best way to balance something. If the community people bitching about things are already not playing the game, then how does their opinion stack to someone actively playing the game? How do you know who is actively playing and who isn't? If we gave the community everything they wanted by majority vote, this game would have been dead years ago and the company behind it bankrupt. Lots of lost jobs and no one paying for the servers to even play. That's what I was saying earlier that you can take communities opinions into consideration, especially as you try to gauge cost vs. income of different new content that they will be paying for. However, I don't think the game balance should be decided by the community or the game would be bead almost as soon as the first "community patch" comes out. Plus you would see that there may be a large silent part of the community that you don't realize exist. The outspoken population of a game is usually a small percentage of the population who actually play. So who knows what the majority thinks. In your post you say that a majority might like the trait cause its cheesy in which, you would conclude that you think community's opinion matters and the communities opinion likes it so it should stay even if you don't personally like it. Right? I'm glad you can admit that you don't like change as it shows you know the kind of player that you are. Let me throw this question at ya. Do you think if hunt was the same hunt from 4 years ago (when it full released) it would have more or less players then it does now? no updates but bug fixes, no new weapons, no events, no new maps etc? I don't think it would but interested to know your take. Just as a heads up, I don't control post malone. He does what he wants.
@ Sorry man, I’ve had time to sleep on this thought. I’m not sure if my comment was coming off condescending or that I had a bad attitude since my reply is in text form, but I don’t mean for it to be. To answer your question about “whether or not Hunt would still be alive if it was the same 4 years ago?” the answer is yes and no. Yes because you always have those cult players (like myself) that would still play the game even w/o support. Look at games like Battlefield and Call of Duty that have lacked updates and new content after all this time yet they still have huge numbers playing them. Then onto the no, I don’t think it’d have as many players as it would today if the game didn’t innovate. However, I think it’s important to admit when those innovations are mistakes and learn from it. Should the Hunt Devs innovate and try new things? Yes. Should the Hunt Devs admit a mistake and remove new things? Also yes. As I said I hope they keep Blademancer as a QoL trait and maybe even balance it in a way it doesn’t become an instant meta, but not how strong it was during the event. That’s my answer. I think the best way to solve this argument as a Content Creator stand point is to make a video where you use Blademancer and then a video where you don’t use Blademancer. Then see how it fairs. Come on, Kham Kham! It’s free content 😂 but overall I hope my comments haven’t come off as nonchalant because I don’t mean for them to. I generally enjoyed having this discussion. You are one of the few Creators I respect on this game that shows how the game truly is. That hasn’t changed. Best of luck, my friend!
Haven’t finished the vod yet or read the patch coming but pull out dmg should be charge based on the bow and range based on the cb aswell as have the dmg modifiers for body section
Imo, if the hands blocking the main hitboxes is the issue i would rather make arrows and bolts specifically pen those parts, because if they legit hit your arms or legs only now you died for free. Anything one shotting you not in the chest or head is weird. I like the trait personally
@@khalamity2249 For this feature to be balanced, would they not need to apply this to all weapons that has special ammo that can not pen? Like the Centennial with poison ammo.
@@malun132 you can explain why big ass arrows or bolts could penetrate soft body tissue, but with compact ammo that basically explodes on contact, i dont see the reason, beside that as Khal said you can shoot like 4 times with centi while you shoot once with bow or crossbow with a slow projectile that will only travel about 80m
Only been playing hunt since it released on gamepass and got thrown into 6 star lobbys. I started using the crossbow with blademancer and would still be able to enjoy the game. Since the nerf, not so much. The crossbow is supposed to be a stealth weapon. It takes a certain playstyle to even use it. You get one shot, if it lands torso or head from any distance under 100M a pullout should be a kill. Beserker needed nerfed not blademancer or pullout damage. Berserker was the expolit.
As a bow main I think the changes they announced will be good. have been loving this perk, and I hope it stays even if pull out damage is nerfed because I hate losing my arrows. The big problem with it currently at least on bow is you don’t have to charge your shots. If you can land an uncharged shot to someone’s chest they die. Which I don’t think should be the case.
Never mind I’m sad I thought the pull out damage would be different for blade mancer and normal, but they just nerfed pullout damage in general. :( I am going to have to break some muscle memory with bow in close range. I always just run at them to yoink it out.
@@Beessoup I would be fine with berserker not working on blademancer which would cut the dmg by half. But I think a lot of people don't even know that its berserker killing em instead of blademancer with the crazy dmg pulls. I also don't know how easy that would be for crytek to code.
I like the trait, I always take it but for throwing stuff, not bows. What I dont like is that it encourages playing the noiseless weapons. In addition of all the silenced guns (there are a lot right now) the Audio becomes less relevant. Everyone is ninja nowadays
I've been a hunting bow main for about 1,000 hours bow and i think blademancer is some bs. Crossbow is the big problem as it doesnt take much finesse unlike the bow. Id say just remove the damage in pull out and add it to the game for 8-10 trait points.
Reddit was crying because a)its reddit b) the hunt subreddit is even worse then most and c) because it feels kinda bad to die "without counterplay" (or "get killed just by someone going darksight") after you just survived a hit and reddit is a place where hundreds of people with the emotional development of 9 year olds are boosting each others rage. With the deaths they were upset about there wouldve been just as little counterplay vs an auto 5, which requires zero traits to do it, but because he "hit you twice" thats totally different lmao. But lets cry bloody murder over the 2% global pickrate weapons that just got boosted to 5% pickrate because they are slightly less of a meme with blademancer.
To be fair someone hitting you twice with an auto-5 means that they actually have to aim the gun at you and hit twice, and you have the chance to shoot them in the head inbetween those shots. I think that if you could stop the pullout from happening if you were actively stopping the bleed then that would be enough to make it feel like you had some counterplay against it, but also mean that as the crossbow/bow player you need to make sure that you are either very quick with the pull out, or aggressive with pushing to stop them from being able to start stopping the bleed.
@@thomasell They have to hit you twice with a point and shoot gun vs they have to hit you once with the shittiest balistics in the game and you have a chance to shoot them in the head between them hitting and blademancering you aswell, you probably have more time to do that vs blademancer even. Youre exactly the kind of person im talking about, all you see is "hes killing me by pressing darksight, no skill, broken trait" and forget that he *has to play crossbow and hit you with it* to use blademancer in the first place. If blademancer was as strong as the amount of crying suggests, everyone in the higher tiers atleast wouldve played it everytime over romero/rival atleast, after all why wouldnt you pick the easy close range oneshot weapon that also has the potential for a harder to aim longer range oneshot? But that didnt happen because even with blademancer, even at ranges were drop and velocity dont matter, the long romero is objectively a far stronger gun.
@@thomasell that would be some fine counterplay ideas for sure! I don't agree with the crown logic though. it can pen, has 5? shots, and once you have hit once the second one is incredibly easy to "target" as you where already on target the first time. Plus you have time to shoot them in the head between dark sight pulls. I have killed at least 4-5 blademancers before they pulled on me. I would even say you have more time then aim punch crown as that second shot from crown comes out faster then you can get into darksight.
L comment, you can hear the crown and king shoot, if they are super closed crouched up to you you can here them crouch. Bows there are no real counter play when some dude sits in a bush silently killing you with no idea where from
Hard agree here. As mostly a crossbow main, blademancer is just an improvement to bs rng. However, i do think crytek could buff bow/xbow by shrinking the crosshairs that trickshooter does, and up the dmg multipliers in various hunter hit boxes.
I don't have issues with keeping it, but I disagree in keeping pullout damage as it is not `pulling out' the bolt/arrow but `summoning' it back into your inventory/load out. Your argument `it's harder to hit with bow/xbow' and `if you hit an arm/leg you don't get full damage' is not justification for allowing the weapon to have a damage boost. You argue fast fingers/fanning/iron repeater/etc boast weapons and they do... but not the damage per shot. People pay for weapons and use them based on their game playability (what style works or that they want to run). Choosing one weapon over the other does not `reward' you in any way other than letting the player be excited over those long shots with slower weapons. I like the ability to replenish with the trait (call back bolts/arrows/throwables) and can see that being a valuable long-term trait in the game. I just feel that pull-out damage is where the balance shifts. You get a free damage boost for recalling your bolt where as pull-out damage is a bonus based on actual risk as you have to physically perform the action. Blademancer allows you to shoot blindly into foliage/corn/brush/darkness and pray for a hit knowing any hit (arm/leg/other) will likely result in a kill with no risk. So, nice vid, good to stoke a conversation. Put me down pro-blademancer with the no-pull-out damage caveat.
its not a direct dmg boost. its a Damage over time. you hit and then go into darksight and pull. if you die in between you don't get the pull dmg. sparks fast fingers is a damage over time trait as well. same with Iron Eye. Hopefully this helps on where I'm coming from. Also there are traits that strait up increase dmg. i. e. Berserker and Assailant at least.
I wouldn't put blacemancer and traits like fast finger/iron eye into the same category. I would say blacemancer is more like a "direct damage buff trait with a slight delay". Because traits like fast finger only gives you more damage if you manage to hit the second shot, which requires you to pass a "skill check". While blademancer damage is guaranteed as long as you don't die immediately after hitting the shot, which requires very little skill most of the time. And that's where I think the balance goes wrong since before blademancer the only direct damage boost traits requires you to be at melee range while blademancer does not.
So, according to part of your logic, Quad Derringer should one shot because its difficult to land those shots? I think its a risk - reward situation, the trait should maybe stay in the game if you can pull out the projectiles only if you can see the target at 10m max. Because getting tag by a random deadeye crossbow 80m away its equal to dead, its not healthy. Its still 1 shot weapon but its silent and it puts bleeding, it doesnt need more stuff at long range.
quad derri does get rewarded my friend. if any of those shots hit head. the person dies. it gets 4 shots and can shoot them almost as fast as a bornheim which takes a weapon slot. it is also a tool slot so i think that's a pretty good reward for a tool slot. how many times did you personally die to crossbow at 80+ m in the past two weeks? I'm curious
@@khalamity2249 I died to all of those "tags" + trait in the past 2 weeks. Maybe between 10-15 times, playing like 2h per day if i played. The problem is that half of those times it was a scope crossbow guy 60+ meters away. Im a 6 star MMR too, so, the bush wookies are real with that weapon + scope.
honestly my take is to make it not possible to pull out of living targets beyond 20 meters, i only play bounty clash so i hardly see this trait though lol
Blademancer is fun and fine overall, but saying "you should be dead" because you hit somebody in the arm or leg doesn't do it for me, personally. "You should have died except hitbox" seems like a strange form of cope. Arms and legs are real things. Hitting somebody in the arm or leg is bad luck. I agree Hunt has a lot of ways to pull those hitboxes across the chest, but not everything needs to penetrate every hitbox, I feel. If you want to penetrate the arm hitboxes then bring any of the things you listed in the video with the function to do that. And while you should still be able to blademancer those items back, 70 damage free(with berserk) on a pullout seems a bit much. It's definitely a nuanced balancing act and a variety of ideas could be implemented to make this trait balanced and still fun. There should be pros and cons to every item in a loadout. Homogenizing things to perform like the rest of the things isn't how you make something more fun.
its not about homogenizing, its about rifles being the best thing in the game, shotguns being second best, and bows and crossbows etc being third best. They try to buff the consistency of the third group AFTER nerfing the first group and buffing the second group. When the second group was buffed, people lost their minds, then settled down. Then they buff the worst group and people lose their minds again. a couple things to note about penetrating arms and legs. 1. they have to already have nothing in the way to hit you because they can't pen, which means you exposed yourself. not somethin you have to do with shotguns and rifles. and then they have to beat your 500ms on average rifle or 425ms shotguns both of which shoots STRAIGHT with a 150ms or 210ms bolt that has massive drop. 2. there are a lot of circumstances where legs and arms can get in the way that I don't think you are realizing. If someone even has a slight height advantage on you, your chance of hitting legs and arms goes up exponentially. How much height advantage is in the game? 3. these weapons already play differently and blademancer even makes the identity of the bows and crossbows stronger in my opinion. as they can retrieve their ammo which you cannot do on shotgun and rifle. the "you should be dead" agreement you make is inconsistent. people like to make arguments for realism until it goes against their fun. arms and legs are real things. so is hemorrhaging, stress induced heart attacks, major crucial arteries in the legs, blackouts, and gun jams. but I don't see people wanting all of that in hunt.
@@khalamity2249 First off, thanks for the time responding! Appreciate it! I'm trying to pull from my own experience as much as possible, so please understand I ain't looking to discredit what you're saying, just add my own perspective! If we disagree, I hope I do a good job of making it about the points! I've only got a fraction of the hours you do, at 3.2k, but I don't think I'd be able to definitively say that rifles > shotguns > everything. Just doesn't sound right to me. Everything has a place and situation where it is better than something else on the list. And while I see you argue later that the crossbow and bow are put at disadvantage more often than rifles and shotguns, making them penetrate more things doesn't feel llke the good way to go about fixing that. I don't even think that what's currently in the game is bad! I agree with you that blademancer makes the game better and more fun for those who prefer throwing weapons and bows/crossbows! I don't think it should have ramped damage from berserker(or if it does, it doesn't need to be almost half of an enemy hunter's health. I literally know people who have been stabbed and while it's bad, they didn't die from it. Or from removing the thing that stabbed them.) 1: I don't disagree with anything you're saying here. I just don't see that as a problem because it's an acceptable con, to me, if you want to run a crossbow. If there isn't a pro that offsets that enough then I think that can be addressed. And I think that blademancer is a good way to give crossbows an extra oomph in combat. And while I've seen my fair share of "crossbow hits arms and does nothing" I've also seen more than a few shotgun close quarters exchanges where 15 damage from buckshot has been done in a 6-7 metre space. Getting your ammo back, them bleeding, and it being silent seems like very solid pros to offset the occasional limb shot. As I don't use crossbows regularly(as in every day or every other day I'm playing) I haven't found that I get "screwed" out of crossbow kills any more often than I do shotgun kills. 2: No argument from me on this point. I do agree/think that far too many animations bring the arm and leg hitboxes over the body hitbox and that people will take advantage of that in the most "gamer" of ways. When playing in a MMR where every little move can count I can see this being more frustrating than in lower MMR lobbies where you aren't punished for every little mistake, necessarily. Would love to see some clean-up work done on animations or changes entirely in order to make bolts, arrows, and throwables more reliable in that regard. 3: I could have been better about what I meant when I said "Arms and legs are real". I didn't mean realism as in real life, I meant more as in those hitboxes are a thing, should continue being a thing, and makes sense that they would block a shot from a crossbow or an arrow. THAT SAID there is definitely an argument to be made that within a certain range it shouldn't matter if a crossbow hits your arm that's in front of your chest. With that much power it's still going to go thru your arm and into your chest. In the end, I don't know a good way to make blademancer/berserker combo feel good to play against. Maybe make it so it's not instant. Or does less damage. Or has a shorter range. I really don't know. If you bothered to read this far, thanks dood. It was a great video with great points that I think causes people to really think about a game they really love.
@@OgreBanani Thanks for the response and I do agree with you on most things. One thing I want to challenge you on is the 1 rifles 2 shotguns 3 everything else. Have you seen hunt showdown tournaments? its 90% rifles with a crown shotgun or avto thrown in (which is a rifle but not like other rifles). Why would that be the case if everything has a place? Rifles have been the most consistent type of weapon in hunt for 6 years in my opinion. Why do you see a ton of rifle spam even in bounty clash which forces players to be even closer then regular bounty hunt matches? Why do you see fully geared 6 stars all using mosin dolche? if crossbow has it's place at least some of them should be bringing it in proportion to the amount of rifles being brought. The reason for a lot of this, in my opinion, is that the rifle is consistent at 5 m, 25m, 60m, 100m, 150m, etc. some rifles lose consistency the further out they go and those rifles get brought in less than the more consistent options. Do you nerf rifles in case or do you buff the other weapons to make them at least a bit more consistent? When it comes to making blademancer feel good to play against. I don't think that should be an answer that needs to be solved. and if it is, then all of the things following should be solved as well. It's a pain in my ass everytime i go up against dolche spam, dualie spam, crown slug spam, terminus levering dragonbreath spam, levering spam, fanning spam, grenade spam, mosin spam from 100m, officer carbine spam, marathon fmj spam through multiple walls, specter bleed spam with a sparks or something on the backend, explosive crossbow spam, revive bolt spam, the list goes on. But for some reason, people don't make a fuss over a lot of this right now. NONE of that feels good to die to. It's because they settled down and realized it wasn't the end of the world and that there are some counter elements to some of this even though none of it feels good to die to. This game has a lot of unfair ways to die. One more is not the catalyst that breaks the mules back. Thanks for being a kind and considerate debater. It nice to talk opinions with people and no one is getting aggravated
@@khalamity2249 As I don't have a lot of experience up in 6 star lobbies (in the number of hours I've played I've MAYBE spent a few hours TOPS in six star lobbies) I can't speak to that mindset, but I definitely see your point. In the high tier/stakes/MMR lobbies there is most definitely a predomination of those loadouts. It's all over the TH-cam highlights of a large variety of Hunt players. I definitely see your point of view and I don't even disagree with it! I hadn't considered the "In a game with so much already unbalanced/unfair, does it matter to have another in the sake of loadout balance." And I honestly can't think of any good answer as to why it shouldn't. So uh... yeah. Fuck it. I'm convinced.
imo, the blademancer nerf was required. i dont think the majority of kills coming from the pull out feels good to go against. my idea is that you buff the damage falloff on all bows and crossbows. making it a guaranteed kill in the torso at lets say 75m because you hit a good shot and you should be rewarded for it. and then blademancer should deal 0 dmg. i dont think you should get a kill because you went into darksight after a hitmarker and thats it, just reward skillful play. and coming from an avid crossbow user before blademancer for the love of everything holy, nerf the steel bolts so they arent just better bolts. i thought the balance philosphy was the ammo does something new for a price. faster = less dmg more pen = slower shot bleed = slower shot and no pen fire = cant pen poison = ai shredder but again cant pen then comes steel bolts and its just. yup. goes faster. everything else is the same
feels good to go against? does levering centenniel feel good to go against? marathon fmj through wall? crown slugs? terminus levering dragonsbreath? dualies? nitro? avto? fanning? bleed ammo? explosive crossbow? frag spam? there are a ton of things in this game that don't feel good to go against. Why arent they being talked about when it comes to feeling good to go against? my point is that there is very little "fair" weapons to go against and that is not a great point to argue if something should stay or go. your diea seems fine. anything that makes crossbow/bow etc more consistent is sweet.
This is such a bad video. You're reasoning for it being good is that sometimes you don't hit your target and you think that's unfair and think Crytek should give you the kill anyway. Like sorry you hit their arms but that's part of the downside that comes with a bow, lack of penetration, hit your shots better or shoot them again. On top of that you think that just because a weapon is hard to use at range it should give you free kills every time you land a hit? Hey guess what, if you hit them in the head it's still a one shot. You want Crytek to reward you with a kill for being able to land a shot outside of the recommended range for that weapon. Do you also want Crytek to give you kills every time someone moves and you miss a headshot? Like jesus it feels like you tried to use bows and crossbows one time and got upset that you hit a guy in the arm instead of the chest and it drives you crazy to this day. If you hit them in the arm, you didnt hit the chest, you dont deserve the kill. It's as simple as that.
Crossbow and bow type of weapons are not the same as shotguns and they are strong in different aspects. You trade consistency for a silent weapon, the bleed effect, retrievable ammo AND the potential to one shot someone at 20-30 meters. These are all things that a shotgun with buckshot can't do EVER. You are already rewarded with all these benefits for using a harder to hit/less consistent weapons. I don't think just because it's a harder shot is enough to justify blademancer being able to deal 35 (the exact number may be wrong but I think people will get my point) extra damage ignoring all damage drop off and cover, on top of that you also get infinite ammo. Why should you be rewarded with such good benefits just for pressing E?
Another thing I want to say is that we already have shot bolt for consistent one shot at close ranges. And the bow also has the hundred hands trait that, if I remember correctly, allows you one shot in the arm at close range. Why do you need blademancer on top of that?
@@edwardharrison43 the shotbolt is not consistent. Try it out in the shooting range sometime. The shotbolt is supposed to one shot if you hit directly anywhere, toe etc doesn't matter (which I might add has been in the game for a long time and people don't really complain about it?) but it doesn't always and the problem is exacerbated by ping and the servers. I have been hit many times and not died and have hit many people and they have not died. (BTW, whats the trade off for shotbolt? less muzzle velocity but it can pen and one tap legs? It doesn't need bleed technically because it is supposed to always one shot.) Inconsistency is the main reason i like blademancer. it makes somethings in the game more consistent. Which I think is a good thing. we can argue on specifics but the over arching idea is consistency. Huge RNG swings make people frustrated and stop playing. When you shoot a shotbolt, at 5 meters it hits, and doesn't kill and you died from the guy 1 second later from a romero shot they shouldn't have gotten. it feels frustrating and like the game didn't work properly. Which it didn't. It's the same way with shotguns that hit directly to body and don't kill. it feels reaaaaly bad, like luck wasn't on your side and that's the only reason you lost. I argue there is enough RNG in the game that getting rid of some of it is better for the game. Crytek seems to agree as they buff shotguns a few months back and have now buffed bows and crossbow, throwing knives etc. I don't know how much you have used crossbow and bow without blademancer, but I'd recommend a couple of weeks worth of playtime on em and see how inconsistent these weapons are.
@@khalamity2249 I used to play the crossbow a lot so I know it can be extremely frustrating when you hit an arm shot. However I haven't experienced the shot bolt inconsistency you mentioned. But either way I think we can both agree on that shot bolt should 100% of the time one shot if it works properly, and that should be a solution to the inconsistency issue. Blademancer also is a solution to the inconsistency, but my point is that since we already have hundred hands and shot bolt that take care of the inconsistency issue, these weapons doesn't need the be buffed further with the trait. Another point I want to make is that blademancer creates more problems than it solves. The only problem it solves is the inconsistency. But here are the problems with blademancer imo: 1. It rewards unskilled interaction. Unlike any other weapon in the game that needs a follow up shot to finish off a enemy, you only need to tap E for blademancer to deal damage for you. Quickly tapping E in the general direction of the enemy requires little to no skill compared to hitting a second shot, yet you get rewarded heavily with you ammo back and a flat amount of damage which isn't affected by damage drop off. 2. The blademancer damage isn't affected by damage drop off, and it is against common sense in hunt. Everything deals less damage at range, effects like bleed also are less severe when you're hit from a further distance, yet blademancer defies common sense and deals the same amount of damage at any range within 100m. 3. Currently it still works with berserker and if you die from the pull damage the "distance to killer" stat on the death screen shows "melee". This is more of a technical issue that if crytek is able to fix then it's fine. But anyone with the right mind can agree that if you pull out a bolt with blademancer you're not dealing melee damage. And getting killed by someone in a bush that you can't hear (because the weapon is silent) and have no idea how far away is the most frustrating experience in the world. If they can't get the coding done properly, they should get rid of the trait. 4. Blademancer breaks the original trade offs of this type of weapons. Imo crossbow/bow type weapon trade consistency for a lot of benefits that no rifles or shotguns have like silence, AI utility, bleed, further one tap range to the upper torso. If you want consistent one shot at close range, you have to either take shot bolt, which limits you range effectiveness by having more drop and less velocity, or you spend 2 trait points for hundred hands if you take the bow. These weapons are strong in their own way and the trade off is fair and balanced in general. Blademancer completely breaks the balance by giving these weapons nitro level one tap range and practically gives you infinite ammo. If blademancer stays in the game I would say crossbow and bow type weapons needs a major update to re-balance the trade offs. In summary, instead of introducing a new and problematic trait, I think it's better for Crytek to work on and reevaluate the current state of the crossbow and bow to make people find them more fun. Edit: hundred hands trait requires the bow to be fully drawn to deal extra damage, and it also extend the time needed to fully drawn the bow. This is again a trade off since you only get extra damage if you commit it to a fully drawn shot, sacrificing fire rate and the ability to run.
berserker with blademancer is another topic. thats a lot of dmg. blademancer by itself is not imo and it's cope to blame a trait for your death when you prob shouldn't have been hit by a bolt that can't pen and can be baited as it's a slow muzzle velocity.
The pullout should do 35 and 70 with berserker. I’m really sad about the changes. Hitting bow shots from like 50+ meters is hard and should be rewarded.
As a bow and crossbow main player I thank you for this brillant analyse. Lot of people don't understand how inconsistant are bow and crossbow… even with the old blademancer ! For the people that want to see at what distance does the bow / crossbow do what damages, this calculator is a great tool. Let's do some test with it to understand how freaking useless is the arrow pull with the 14 degat blademancer right now : - Without hundred hands: At more than 36m you do less than 136 damage in the upper torso you will not be able to kill, even with the bow drawn at 100%. It means that at more than 36m, if you don't have the trait, the bow is just here to assist. Not to kill. - With hundred hands: At more than 45m you do less than 136 damage in the torso you will not be able to kill, even with the bow drawn at 100%. If you do a 55 / 60 m upper torso shot with all the body part hiding your target upper chest. It will not even kill with blademancer haha. - With hundred hands: It will not even kill at 12m in the arm or legs. Just imagine hitting at 12m the arm just because the guy goes sideway and don't get the kill even with blademancer lul.
It's good to know the exact number so thank you for the information. But I fail to see why it is problem a that a bow can't one shot a enemy at 30+/40+ meters. No weapon of the other types (other than nitro) can one shot a player to the upper torso at more than 20 meters while also having very consistent one shot to any body parts that's not the leg within 10 meters. Very often with buckshot shotguns you don't one tap a hunter at 12m if you miss the center mass by even a little bit. I wouldn't deny the fact that the bow is less consistent than a shotgun in the 10 to 15m range but you trade consistency at those ranges for the silence feature, the utility for AI, the bleed affect and the potential one tap to the upper torso at 30+ meters. Don't forget that we're comparing the bow with 3 slot shotguns too. Imo it's a reasonable trade off for the bow (or the crossbow) to be a bit less consistent at some ranges but gets the other great benefits. That's why I don't think they need a direct damage buff since it breaks the balance of the original trade offs.
I agree that blademancer should stay, it's a nice QoL trait, but I'm really glad they reduced the pull out damage. It was too high, and it's so stupid that berserker works with it. I don't think Crytek thought about it counting as melee. I really doubt that it was their intention for it to work with berserker at all. I think we can all agree that when we're using bladmancer, we're not doing melee damage.
Re your points on limb damage: what if someone actually missed the body and hit the arm - now they kill as if they hit centre mass? Unless I'm missing something, I don't think you really thought this particular point through. I think blademancer is cool and should stay but it does look like it will require some further development which will take time and that, I believe, is why they simply nerfed it. Though, I know what you mean about people overly complaining and that it may actually stifle the game so I would like to know if Crytek actually does some analysis before implementing changes or they simply base it on discussions in the community.
I did think the point through. My rational is that the game could use more consistency and less RNG in in general. I would rather the crossbow kill to arms (after pull out) at 10 meters then not get a kill with a weapon that does 240dmg at 10 meters when hunters only have 150 health. If crytek wants to make it do less dmg that would be fine, be my guest. But in no way should someone survive that kind of dmg at 10 meters. arm or not. In a perfect world though I would have crossbow do the same thing mosin bullets do when it comes to hitboxes. arms that are in the way of a higher dmg hitbox do not stop the bolt from doing the highest hitbox dmg. So if the arm is the only hitbox it hit, then it does arm dmg. if it hits arm but the chest is behind it, the player dies. However with the crossbow being a weapon that doesn't pen, it has extreme inconsistencies and can't do that. blademancer is and interesting workaround that I think the devs were trying to get rid of some of that inconsistency. Just like they did with shotguns in the past.
Even if we'd agree that Blademancer mechanic is too strong (in it's original state), they nerfed it 2x more than it should be. In my opinion, Berserker should be excluded from the equation and Blademancer pulls should do damage consistently exactly as you sad: for improving consistency of use those difficult enough weapons. With 14 dmg at the moment we are just not there (14 is for torso, limbs even less). Of course Blademancer also is a great utility/QOL but there is no controversy in it. On second thought we can nuance this topic and talk solutions like arrows penetrating arms not walls or maybe more dmg to arms not legs, maybe even cancel bandaging, go hevy bleed, ect. But at the end the same goal should be clear: consistency. People complaining about 80m shots are missing the point. And there is nerfing pulling dmg in general, not only by this perk: wich is lame. It rewarded brave plays and was very satysfying.
@@khalamity2249If arrows/bolts penetrate limbs then wouldn't crossbow/bow just become silenced shotguns with slugs dumdum ammo that deals 240 something damage that you can also retrieve your ammo? At that point why would you ever take a shotgun ever or even bother spending extra hunt dollars on slugs?
I love the bow and used it a ton but ultimately gave up on it cause it’s not consistent and I got so sick of shooting people within 10-15m then bladmancer made so it could actually be rewarded for my skill and now it’s neefed and first game I shoot a guy 12m away then suck my arrow back and he survives and kills me. Like wtf
penny derry, bomblance, most melees, spear, penny shotguns in general, poison bombs, levering, fanning, dualies, etc trivialize pve as well. should they all be scarce as well?
I love blademancer's Goated quality of life improvement potential, and agree that it should stay, but Crytek did the right thing by nerfing the pullout damage. I understand the frustration with not getting a 1HK up close, but that also still happens with shotguns, and I'm pretty sure it's for the same reasons... Bolts/arrows might get blocked by arms, but I'm pretty sure that buckshot can't kill with a single headshot either, so every weapon has it's weird drawbacks. Plus, you gotta be honest here, people's issue with bladmancer was not dying inside 10 meters, it was getting winged at 20-30 meters and then getting killed via pull--out, by someone hiding behind a house with no line of sight.
I agree that blademancer should stay, and with several of your other justifications, but I dont know if this core argument of "you should have died" is very good. I think that RNG is a bit of an overused term these days, and I dont think the lack of penetration or potential to not kill due to an arm blocking your shot is RNG. its a known downside of the weapon you chose to bring in. The lack of penetration is a known factor. Sure the fact that an opponent may live due to luck cuz they happened to be charging a melee, or holding a bomb lance or whatever may be frustrating for you, but so is someone randomly jumping or ducking what would have otherwise been a headshot. It happens. Its the nature of the game. That would be like taking a shotgun, hitting someone at 20m and being mad they didnt die cuz of RNG. Its not RNG, its a known downside of shotguns that they are bad at range. Similarly, bow/crossbow is bad at penetration. You sacrifice penetration to get a silent weapon, with solid 1 shot potential at short range assuming no blockage, retrievable ammo, pressure from bleed and utility thru explosive/poison options. So I dont feel that your core justification is all that strong, in my opinion. I do think, however, that blademancer is a great utility and QOL perk that I hope at least that portion of it stays. I think reducing the pullout damage and eliminating the berserker interaction is fair. I think the pullout damage should still be enough that if you hit upper arm, they still die, but not enough that if you hit like leg or something they die. They could also make pulling out of a enemy take longer than just retrieving them from the ground which is instant. Some combination of these things i think could achieve a balanced trait. Bow is honestly pretty strong already, crossbow I think def needs the help. I agree that blademancer encourages people to go for longer range shots with the potential to be rewarded, or to easily retrieve any misses. But I also think that you cant be mad if your 80m crossbow shot doesnt kill, as awesome as it is. You know the stats of the weapon. Im not mad when my winfield doesnt 2 tap at 100m. If they want it to, they can changer the stats of the weapon to allow it somehow im sure. But maybe thats just not their vision for the weapon. edit: I saw someone else suggest the bolt should be able to specifically pen arms to allow 1 shot kills if the chest is behind the arm. I think that would also be fine if they want to go that route. Im not against it 1 shotting on a well aimed, close range shot or even doing so with the pullout from blademancer. Just arguing that their current vision for the weapon says it shouldnt, and we as players need to factor that in when we choose it.
I completely agree with your take on this one. One thing I would like to add is that crossbow has shot bolt for very consistent one shot if you get a direct hit on any body part. And the bow with the hundred hands trait also allows you to one shot a enemy hunter in the arm up to 10m. This whole "you should have died" situation at close range already has a solution before blademancer was introduced. At mid range the crossbow or the bow should never one shot a player with normal ammo unless it's a head shot since it's already pass the intended effective range of the weapon. Getting one shot by a crossbow/bow at 40+ meters when hit in the lower torso/arm is 100% not how the weapons was intended to work.
@@drfrankendoodle I agree with your take for the most part. the main difference point would be that it matters the level of inconsistency. rifles are consistent almost everywhere, the ones that are less consistent are still more consistent then crossbow and bow after 20m. rifles are still very consistent in crossbow and shotgun range and very consistent outside of crossbow and shotgun range. they made shotguns more consistent a few months ago and now they are a lot more reliable. crossbows and bows are inconsistent in there preferred range and have fallen behind. the devs are trying different ways to buff them without changing core mechanics like penetration specifically for them, I'd imagine. It's funny you bring up shotbolt as it is a perfect example for a lot of things. 1. it has been in the game for a looooong time and it is supposed to one shot, even on hand/foot hit and can pen. How many people have complained about shotbolt recently? would you argue that shotbolt is stronger then crossbow blademancer? You don't even get the second before they pull out to kill them, it just one shots you. Why are you ok with shotbolt but not the blademancer "you should be dead" argument. 2. Even though shotbolt is supposed to always kill on hit, it doesn't. if you go in the shooting range, you will find maybe 1-5% of the time it will not one shot the target. That is just built in rng to cryengine. Like the hit just doesn't do what its supposed to. sometimes hitting people with any weapon will do zero dmg etc. ping and the crytek servers make the problem worse, but a weapon that is supposed to one shot, doesn't always. That said it's way more consistent then regular bolt. the regular bolt does 240 dmg. it is supposed to one shot you if the chest was in the trajectory. it just so happens that an arm was also in that trajectory. so a 240dmg weapon shot perfectly doesn't kill a 150 health enemy player. I still stand by my "you should be dead" argument. the player who shot the shot did everything right and gets punished, the player who was hit literally does nothing to survive that shot. They don't make sure they are behind cover etc, bait the shot, spaced the weapon correctly, etc. they made their mistakes and then get to survive because they were lucky. I'd argue that is bad game design to reward stupid plays with good results in my opinion. a little I can handle, but 30-40% of the time, naw. too inconsistent. When it comes to far shots with crossbow and bow, the only way people are dying is because of the stacking dmg of blademancer and berserker. There are two traits in that equation but people blame baldemancer for a berserker problem. I said as much in the video. if you want to argue that it shouldnt do that much dmg far away. be my guest. But if you want to argue that you shouldn't be able to blademancer your bolt back for a little extra dmg especially to tip the rng in your favor up close. sorry but I disagree. I also stand by what i said when it comes to hitting hard shots, I think they should be rewarded, blademancer makes things rewarding. berserker makes things too rewarding in my opinion.
@@khalamity2249 I want to qualify my statement in that I have only been playing hunt since just before 1896 and have like 200hrs. So I'm certainly not as experienced as you. And that level of experience will unavoidably color my opinions. Not that it means im automatically wrong and youre right, but I'm willing to accept you're more likely to be on target with balance stuff. With that being said, I think I am also not as jaded as many other players are by some of the things you describe (the luck aspects of certain parts of the game, bugginess, etc) and I do think that while 10k hours on anything can make you an expert, it can also give you a bit of a narrowed viewpoint. Regarding shotbolt, the reason I am fine with it one shotting at close range is because the player specifically brought it in knowing it would do that and gives up other advantages to do so (such as retrievable ammo, bleed, blademancer, silence, etc). Its the same reason I am not upset when I get killed thru a wall with FMJ, or one tapped by a sparks follow up cuz they brought incendiary etc. Whether custom ammo should exist is its own argument, but so long as it does, I will never be upset when a given custom ammo fulfills its purpose. If people want to "always" (assuming no bugs) one shot at close range with crossbow, they can bring shotbolt. It also allows them to pen walls overcoming another downside of the weapon. Blademancer allows them to keep all the advantages of arrows while also gaining the one shot capability. I wonder too if people dont like blademancer because its tough to know if someone has it and play around it. You basically just have to assume anyone with a bow has it and play accordingly which slows the fight down because you know if you jump peek and they get an arm shot youre likely dead. Another point I want to make is I do not like when devs use things like traits to address core gameplay or balance issues. This is something I saw a lot when playing dead by daylight. The devs would often bandaid issues players had complained about for ages by introducing a perk to fix it, thus just mandating that perk in every loadout. Hunt could go down a similar path. I think its cool to have certain perks favor certain weapons/playstyles, but I would prefer they augment the playstyle or enhance a certain aspect rather than enable that weapon to be played at all. Like hundred hands def makes the bow better, but you can play without it. Iron eye makes rifles better, but you can play without it. But I think its a bit boring to have traits that are just straight upgrades. Like playing bow and intentionally not taking hundred hands makes no sense. I wonder if blademancer is an easy way to buff arrows/throwables without the difficulty of more focused balance tweaks. I like that blademancer offers a different playstyle for bow/xbow in that you can play more aggressively, manage ammo economy better and go for longer range shots. So I think its a good example of a trait augmenting a weapon/playstyle. But I still dont know if im fully on board with your should have died argument. Its weird cuz I agree with the core of your opinion, but I guess just not the main point youre using to defend it. I would have been fine with it if they left blademancer as it was. Im also fine with it in its nerfed state. They may continue to tweak it if it sticks around after the event (which I hope it does) but we'll have to wait and see what their final vision for the perk, and the weapon category as a whole, turns out to be. Either way appreciate you engaging with me in discussion and continue to enjoy your streams/content. Its nice to have a conversation with someone about a game where theres a disagreement without it being rude.
@@drfrankendoodle Again I have to agree with you 100% on this one brother. The dbd part especially. I hated it when bhvr used perks to bandaid core gameplay issue and locked them behind licensed dlc. Luckily hunt doesn't have the same accessibility issues with the traits. I think blademancer does too much for the crossbow/bow that create this huge difference in gameplay experience with and without the trait. Whether blademancer is OP or not this is not healthy for the game. Having the trait or not shouldn't be a night and day experience.
I remember Rakta making a video and repeating like a broken record that blademancer makes the game so easy. But the problem is that he doesn't even realize that non everyone is a nerd like him living in a videogame and that's not easy at all for ordinary players. Well, crytek watch Rakta we know that. And such streamers like him are the reflection of this rotten community that lacks any critical thinking and analytical abilities. Calamity though is obviously way smarter...
I love Rachta and he's a smart dude. He's a brother to me. The game is easy for him without blademancer though, so I don't see what point would be made there. Crytek watches all hunt partners that I know of as well. So that would include me too. I don't claim to be smart and I can be wrong. I need a convincing argument to make me change my mind though
Honestly the nerf went to far. Its annoying that squeaky wheels affect the dev changes so much.
facts my friend
Fix is simple: If you're within 1 meter, pullout does the full damage. If you're outside 1 meter (i.e blademancer), you do much less damage. I still think blademancer should do some damage, no problem with that
I like that fix. I don't know how easy that would be for the devs to put in though
Can't sprint, can't pen, draw time, slow velocity, insane drop AND IT ONE SHOTS ?!?!?! Better nerf that weapon. RIP melee range pullout kills
aye aye captain! lmao. make it make sense
Think alot of people just don't like 1 shot kill weapons in general unless you are clicking heads
@@CR4CKSM0K3R word. people want everyone to use the same weapon they want to use but then when its the only weapon in the game, they are bored because lack of variety and go play something else.
Here’s an idea. Make blademancer only work on missed projectiles and AI. Or even make it so that you have to have line of sight of the projectile to pullout/retrive. Make pullout damage normal again but tweak how blademancer works
The berserker interaction was the only thing they needed to remove. You were able to "1 shot" with the chu ko nu up to like 30 meters with a spam weapon.
That's what I was thinking as well. if people think it does too much dmg. just nerf berserker
How many angry Redditors will disagree tho?
lets find out
i agree. i average 6 star and encountered this strategy max 5 times, so i dont think its even close to broken, cause if it was, it'd be everywhere. i dumped over 100 hours into this event already, and can say this.
I feel ya on that.
Must be playing a different game, I die at least twice a session to it
I really liked blademancer as is but if they REALLY had to remove damage, i think it should be reworked to increase bleed severity/reapply bleed.
That way it still does damage and it applies extra pressure.
But i still want that sweet oneshot. Just my 2 cents
Reapply bleed would be moot, if you end the bleed effect then the blades fall out of you anyway
Thanks for this. I'm just annoyed that people not using Blademancer are now heavily disadvantaged by the nerf to pullout damage at melee range. These weapons and tools have always been harder to hit with, and do less damage due to pen, than their rifle or shotgun alternatives. Brutal pullout damage was the sweetness to balance that. There has to be a better way.
I completely disagree. I'd like to respond point by point:
1) The Crossbow CAN be consistent: shotbolts (almost) always one-shot, even when hitting armshots. Regular bolts are supposed to work like they currently do: you trade consistency for retrievable ammo and utility. I don't know why you feel like it HAS to be at the same level of consistency as shotguns. I don't feel they are comparable at all as they have different purposes, which leads me to:
2) Comparing a Mosin with a Crossbow makes no sense. The Crossbow is designed to be effective from short to medium range. The Mosin is designed to be most effective from medium to long range. Why do you want them to have similar characteristics? Again: they are completely different weapons which should be effective at their respective distances. It is not necessary for every weapon to be in the exact same level as every other weapon in every situatuon. By that logic, slugs should have no deviation, as hitting a 150 m headshot with slugs already is quite difficult due to its heavy drop.
3) Imma skip the berserker bit
4) This point is really weak. Yeah, sometimes you hit a funky armshot that shouldn't have happened, but what about all the armshots you hit that weren't caused by a weird interaction? Maybe you barely missed because, well, no one lands every shot. You missed, yet you still deserve a kill because of "consistency"? Imagine if slugs could armshot-kill. The game would be rewarding poor aim. Besides, landing an armshot at close range still does a LOT of damage + heavy bleeding. It inflicts a lot of pressure, which it's nothing to scoff at.
5) Lastly, I want to adress something that not many people are talking about regarding Blademancer, and that's ammo economy. This traits bumps up your ammo pool to infinity. If you are using retrievable bolts, you simply cannot run out of ammo, which I feel it's really, really dumb. Also, it allows the player to spam throwables, as you have effectively an infinite ammount of them. Suddenly, throwing your spear no longer is a last resource move.
With all that being said... It wouldn't be awful if Crytek wants to keep Blademancer as a scarce trait. Yeah, it can be annoying, but it's scarcity balances it out I believe.
Yeah I dunno why people seem to neglect the fact that you basically get infinite ammo with blademancer. This effect along is already a very big deal (and arguably OP), not to mention you also deal extra damage to AI/players. Giving a certain type of weapons/tools infinite amount of ammo is already unhealthy concept.
Bro I was about to comment the same thing, like he actually compare a mosin to a crossbow and cry about how hard it is to hit a crossbow shot at range.
How can someone that play this game almost daily and for a living doesn't understand anything about weapon effective range?
@KaizenMord I think a better comparison would be comparing romero slugs with the crossbow. They are similar in several way: both are single shot, single projectile weapons that have one tap potential at close range and sometimes can one tap at medium range (Romero requires headshot while crossbow requires either a headshot or upper torso shot). If we make this comparison we can see that crossbow sacrifices penetration andconsistency within 15m for the silence feature, retrievable ammo, more damage meaning more one tap range to the upper torso, and the bleed effect. We can all agree on the fact that consistency matters a lot in hunt, and that's also the major point Khalamity was trying to make in the video. That's why crossbow can get these great benefits I mentioned without being completely broken. And I would argue that this trade off is in general fair and balanced. If we make the crossbow as consistent as the Romero slugs within 15m, why would anyone pick a Romero over a crossbow with steel bolts when it's basically a Romero silencer with slugs dumdum ammo that deals significantly more damage and you can also retrieve your ammo?
@ Yeah like his first point is not even wrong, the comparison is part is just stupidity. Reward for hitting harder shot does exist, it's called a headshot. Him complaining that a 80m crossbow shot doesn't kill is just absurd.
@KaizenMord I wouldn't say he's complaining about crossbow doesn't kill at 80m since that's not the main point he's trying to make. But he definitely could have made a better comparison by comparing the crossbow to a Romero slugs. That would probably make a stronger argument.
Strongly disagree with a lot of the specifics, shotguns are MORE effected by the arm shot mechanics than bow and crossbow. Beyond that, a bow and cross bow should simply not be lethal to the arm or legs ever. Buckshot does not pen limbs and I have had multiple 100% spread hitting shotgun shots be nonlethal within 9 meters because of high arm hits both with and without extenuating circumstances. What you say around 12:45, the bolt weapons just should not be lethal to the arm regardless of penetration where as a shotgun to your arm would 100% still kill you (fixing the pen would be great for hunt but would realistically not apply to bolt or arrow weapons. Bow and crossbow should ideally be bad for the game to be healthy imo, at least with mosin I can HEAR where it comes from, bow rats can shoot from bushes with impunity if I am not looking directly at them. There is something called effective range, these weapons should be literally USELESS at long range except for headshots. Like you said at around 12:20, that should be the case, if players want to play weapons way beyond their effective range that is their choice, if shotguns are useless at range why can't the silent and bleed afflicting weapon be the same. Constantly appealing to arbitrarily high damage values for 1 shot is not valid to me, I understand 200 > 150 but those values are mostly in place so that killing meatheads or bosses feels reasonable. (Delete if u want ik I'm professional yapper)
1. I'm not saying shotguns aren't effected by arms and legs. I'm saying that they were strickly buffed to be more consistent and everyone bitched about dying to shotguns. Then they settled down once they realized the knee jerk reaction wasn't quite right. the crossbow with blademancer is more consistent now and everyone is bitching about that. If Crytek gave it a few more months, I'm sure people would settle down yet again.
2. Are you positive shotguns don't pen arms because they pen wood. It would be the same pen logic as Winfield frontier. You also are getting however many pellets vs. 1 bolt or arrow. Even if that was the case, I would still like shotguns to kill on side profile up close. same for crossbow. You can hear mosin but you can't hear Krag Silencer and even if you can hear mosin if it is over 100 meters most weapons can't contest including blademancer crossbow/bow.
3. when you talk about the health of the game, you refer to your playstyle. From what you said, I garner you don't play a lot of bow and crossbow and don't really care what happens to them as long as they don't kill you as often as they have recently because you are annoyed. You specifically said that you think bow and crossbow should be BAD for the health of the game. What about Mosin being uncontested at most ranges except by other long ammo? what about explosive crossbow (doesn't use blademancer btw), Krag Silencer at most ranges? Dolche? revive bolt spam? maynard bleed? Sparks fast fingers? levering? dualies? etc. the list goes on and on. If you care so much about the health of the game, there are a lot of things that are more important to fix for the game to be healthy in my opinion. These things are higher on the list then blademancer bow/crossbow. BUT blademancer is new and people don't know how to play around it yet, so they blame blademancer as to why they died from a crossbow at 70m, instead of maybe their playstle or standing out in the open (crossbow can't pen). If you are getting hit from a crossbow at 70m, I'd say they deserve the kill and you deserve to die. If you get hit by a marathon headshot at 200m, you deserve to die, and the person who hit that shot deserves the kill. the biggest change to the meta in my opinion this patch was Surefoot. That trait is insane and is permanent, but it slid under the rug because dying from blademancer makes people feel bad. someone running from you and healing and then dying to a full health enemy with a shotgun feels like you just died to a shotgun again, so they don't understand they lost because of surefoot gave them enough time to heal. they just blame the shotgun.
4. if you have trouble finding rats. Get this thing in the game called Dark Sight Boost. It's available at boss compounds, the circus, one of the pacts gives it to you on loot, and the rng machine can give it to ya as well. DSB literally gives you wall hacks FURTHER then the kill range of blademancer. I'd say silence is one of the benefits of having a projectile almost as slow as a throwing knife/derringer. I'm also not saying that the bow and crossbow are perfectly balanced. I am saying that there is a lot of Good stuff in the game and bow and crossbow should be among those for those who like to play them.
5. shotguns might be useless at 60-100m but they can pen. crossbows and bows can't pen and have a slight chance of kill at those ranges. also. shotguns are better in close range. Higher muzzle velocity, most have a faster firerate, can pen, accurate without adsing if not using slugs, and they shoot straight. Sounds like once again, tradeoffs.
@@khalamity2249 Your 3 comment is rather contradicting lmao, You named Mosin being uncontested but then listed a bunch of the other weapons, and completely missed this guys points about them needing to be bad for the game, because it perfectly enables the stealth hide in bush play style, if you are gonna be stealthy it should be for around a compound so it would be close quarters but blademancer was allowing the silent almost untraceable shot to be a long range killer in the right hands.
Even the silences got changed so they arent as quite.
The Crossbow, being Silent, applying a ton of pressure because of the heavy bleed, having infinite ammo because you can just press E, and long range thanks to steelbolt, SHOULD NOT one shot past 30-50 meters let alone the range it was at before nerf
I've penned with a shotgun? I have wall banged with a shotgun. I have arm banged to? What u talking about? xD
TBH IDK TF you are talking about. When I started leveling prestige I frequently played quick play mode. Finding a shotgun or crossbow in QP was like achieving half of the victory. Since that time, the crossbow become my stealth weapon of choice. It was perfectly balanced for "Predator"-style gameplay where you eliminate enemies one-by-one by getting close while using sneaky rotation. Now, I don't try to play like that nor pick a crossbow because it is nearly useless in high-tier lobbies. And it's ok. I can easily comprehend how it frustrates people in any session that is lower than 5-star. (majority of playerbase). So, I disagree and hit a dislike, though I love your content.
Holding the average online, your average Twitch lurker.
P.S.: recent fix is complete BS and indicates a lack of understanding from Crytek
I can comprehend frustration from players. But those same players aren't frustrated by explosive crossbow? levering explosive mako? levering centeniel or infantry? dualies? nitro one taps? frag spam? revive bolt spam? the list goes on and on. My point being there are a lot of frustrating things to die to in hunt. should we remove all of it? you said yourself that you don't pick crossbow for high tier lobbies. Wouldn't the point of buffing some weapons be to make them playable in higher tier lobbies because higher tier lobbies will generally use what is best or at least good so that in turn, means crossbow and bow aren't good enough? I agree btw, i barely see a crossbow unless it has explosive ammo in any lobby outside of this event
Thanks for lurking and hopefully you can understand where im coming from.
@@khalamity2249 If buff means ruining games for low and mid-tier players then my answer is no. (not worth buffing)
Khalamity, I love you dude and I normally support your thoughts, but sadly I can’t agree with this one. Blademancer just made me hate the game so much. Dying while behind cover was the worst experience I’ve had in hunt. Yes, other weapons can pen and kill behind a wall sure, but those work when you have the skill and knowledge to pull it off. Whereas with Blademancer you simply press a button and they’re dead. I hope they keep it for a QoL trait, but the pullout damage just makes the game way too easy and it’s not fun to die to constantly. I’m one of those veterans that want them to make the game harder, not easier. I do just fine with the Crossbow & Bow w/o Blademancer so I honestly don’t think players need it. Don’t hate me man, this is just my opinion and I’m sure the event data/feedback will see how the majority of players feel.
its ok to have different opinions my guy. love you too. no hate from this side. im sorry blademancer made you hate the game so much but do you think some of that might be how people have felt about other weapons etc for literal years? weapons that you may have found fun or are weapons that you personally love. lets say you love the sparks but i say that it's high dmg (149 dmg when hunters have 150 health) has made me hate the game so much. Should that also be removed? what if most of the hunt audience agrees with me? then should it be removed? what if I make 40 threads on reddit with different accounts? then should it be removed?
These reasons aren't the best reasons to balance a game because the majority of people could be wrong. My own personal experience could be wrong, and reddit threads could be wrong. At the end of the day it's up to crytek how they want to balance the game and I'm just giving my opinion on weapons that cannot contest the meta currently. the only bow or crossbow build that can contest shotguns or rifles is explosive crossbow. Which i would say is less skill then blademancer stuff and has been in the game for literal years. Why aren't there a billion threads on reddit about explosive crossbow? because people are very knee jerk (reaction) oriented and base a lot of opinions on emotions very quickly. It's easy to feel like the world is falling apart when stuff doesn't go your way. But is it really falling apart? "I have bad time so thing is bad." Is about as far as a lot of people think. What is bad for one might not be bad for the other etc. So I think it's good to hear both sides to have a clearer view on a matter. I know people have talked about how much they hate blademancer. Haven't heard from the other side, which I'm on. So I'm giving my reasoning as to why I like blademancer. that's all.
@ I think the Community’s opinion does matter on how the game is balanced. After all, we’re the ones playing the game day in and day out along with financially supporting the game. Blademancer doesn’t require any skill to be used effectively whereas all other weapons do. Idk man, that’s just my opinion, but as I said in my previous comment, Blademancer makes the game very miserable for me and not only me but the friend group I play with. Your friends with Post Malone, right? I’m sure he could ask the Devs what made them nerf Blademancer recently and the statistics along with it. Heck, maybe even make a poll about it and see how everyone feels. Be sure to add “pre-nerf” to the poll. You’d been very surprised how many people love it because it’s cheesy and not balanced. I honestly think the Devs have done a great job (until recently) about making sure the game is balanced and fair. I’ve got my own opinions about Revive Bolts and the such, but again I’m just a veteran that enjoys the “old ways of Hunt” and hate change, but I’m just one of the few people that aren’t afraid to admit that 😂 Regardless, whatever the Devs do I hope it’s for the best of the game and this game continues to shine for many many more years to come.
@@SkullyXbox I never said the commmunity's opinion DOESN'T matter. I said it's not the best way to balance a game. You can take things into consideration like the community opinion, but if the community is going to kill the game, then that might not be the best way to balance something. If the community people bitching about things are already not playing the game, then how does their opinion stack to someone actively playing the game? How do you know who is actively playing and who isn't? If we gave the community everything they wanted by majority vote, this game would have been dead years ago and the company behind it bankrupt. Lots of lost jobs and no one paying for the servers to even play. That's what I was saying earlier that you can take communities opinions into consideration, especially as you try to gauge cost vs. income of different new content that they will be paying for. However, I don't think the game balance should be decided by the community or the game would be bead almost as soon as the first "community patch" comes out. Plus you would see that there may be a large silent part of the community that you don't realize exist. The outspoken population of a game is usually a small percentage of the population who actually play. So who knows what the majority thinks. In your post you say that a majority might like the trait cause its cheesy in which, you would conclude that you think community's opinion matters and the communities opinion likes it so it should stay even if you don't personally like it. Right?
I'm glad you can admit that you don't like change as it shows you know the kind of player that you are. Let me throw this question at ya. Do you think if hunt was the same hunt from 4 years ago (when it full released) it would have more or less players then it does now? no updates but bug fixes, no new weapons, no events, no new maps etc? I don't think it would but interested to know your take.
Just as a heads up, I don't control post malone. He does what he wants.
@ Sorry man, I’ve had time to sleep on this thought. I’m not sure if my comment was coming off condescending or that I had a bad attitude since my reply is in text form, but I don’t mean for it to be. To answer your question about “whether or not Hunt would still be alive if it was the same 4 years ago?” the answer is yes and no. Yes because you always have those cult players (like myself) that would still play the game even w/o support. Look at games like Battlefield and Call of Duty that have lacked updates and new content after all this time yet they still have huge numbers playing them. Then onto the no, I don’t think it’d have as many players as it would today if the game didn’t innovate. However, I think it’s important to admit when those innovations are mistakes and learn from it. Should the Hunt Devs innovate and try new things? Yes. Should the Hunt Devs admit a mistake and remove new things? Also yes. As I said I hope they keep Blademancer as a QoL trait and maybe even balance it in a way it doesn’t become an instant meta, but not how strong it was during the event. That’s my answer. I think the best way to solve this argument as a Content Creator stand point is to make a video where you use Blademancer and then a video where you don’t use Blademancer. Then see how it fairs. Come on, Kham Kham! It’s free content 😂 but overall I hope my comments haven’t come off as nonchalant because I don’t mean for them to. I generally enjoyed having this discussion. You are one of the few Creators I respect on this game that shows how the game truly is. That hasn’t changed. Best of luck, my friend!
What headphones are you using?
@@Mat_7 apple earbuds
Also makes throwing knives more fun to use.
and axes and spear. spear only builds have been a lot of fun since the update
Haven’t finished the vod yet or read the patch coming but pull out dmg should be charge based on the bow and range based on the cb aswell as have the dmg modifiers for body section
would be cool if it worked that way
Imo, if the hands blocking the main hitboxes is the issue i would rather make arrows and bolts specifically pen those parts, because if they legit hit your arms or legs only now you died for free. Anything one shotting you not in the chest or head is weird. I like the trait personally
I would be fine with this as well.
@@khalamity2249 For this feature to be balanced, would they not need to apply this to all weapons that has special ammo that can not pen? Like the Centennial with poison ammo.
I don't see why? centennial shoots straight has 600ms and gets like 10 shots before reload. along with adding poison to the shot if it connects
@@malun132 you can explain why big ass arrows or bolts could penetrate soft body tissue, but with compact ammo that basically explodes on contact, i dont see the reason, beside that as Khal said you can shoot like 4 times with centi while you shoot once with bow or crossbow with a slow projectile that will only travel about 80m
Only been playing hunt since it released on gamepass and got thrown into 6 star lobbys. I started using the crossbow with blademancer and would still be able to enjoy the game. Since the nerf, not so much. The crossbow is supposed to be a stealth weapon. It takes a certain playstyle to even use it. You get one shot, if it lands torso or head from any distance under 100M a pullout should be a kill. Beserker needed nerfed not blademancer or pullout damage. Berserker was the expolit.
As a bow main I think the changes they announced will be good. have been loving this perk, and I hope it stays even if pull out damage is nerfed because I hate losing my arrows. The big problem with it currently at least on bow is you don’t have to charge your shots. If you can land an uncharged shot to someone’s chest they die. Which I don’t think should be the case.
Never mind I’m sad I thought the pull out damage would be different for blade mancer and normal, but they just nerfed pullout damage in general. :( I am going to have to break some muscle memory with bow in close range. I always just run at them to yoink it out.
@@Beessoup I would be fine with berserker not working on blademancer which would cut the dmg by half. But I think a lot of people don't even know that its berserker killing em instead of blademancer with the crazy dmg pulls. I also don't know how easy that would be for crytek to code.
you could also just get good and stop using your wheelchair of a trait
I like the trait, I always take it but for throwing stuff, not bows. What I dont like is that it encourages playing the noiseless weapons. In addition of all the silenced guns (there are a lot right now) the Audio becomes less relevant. Everyone is ninja nowadays
noiseless weapons are countered by dark sight boost. I'd recommend getting in game wallhacks (DSB) if the noiseless weapons bug ya a lot
its the toe shots getting pulled killing me that i dont like
agreed, but I think thats mainly because of berserker, outside of 10 meters. not blademancer. berserker DOUBLES the dmg you do with blademancer.
I've been a hunting bow main for about 1,000 hours bow and i think blademancer is some bs.
Crossbow is the big problem as it doesnt take much finesse unlike the bow. Id say just remove the damage in pull out and add it to the game for 8-10 trait points.
The only nerf I think it needed was the range. I think it's crazy they nerfed pull damage. I also believe you should have to find blademancer in game
Reddit was crying because a)its reddit b) the hunt subreddit is even worse then most and c) because it feels kinda bad to die "without counterplay" (or "get killed just by someone going darksight") after you just survived a hit and reddit is a place where hundreds of people with the emotional development of 9 year olds are boosting each others rage. With the deaths they were upset about there wouldve been just as little counterplay vs an auto 5, which requires zero traits to do it, but because he "hit you twice" thats totally different lmao. But lets cry bloody murder over the 2% global pickrate weapons that just got boosted to 5% pickrate because they are slightly less of a meme with blademancer.
To be fair someone hitting you twice with an auto-5 means that they actually have to aim the gun at you and hit twice, and you have the chance to shoot them in the head inbetween those shots.
I think that if you could stop the pullout from happening if you were actively stopping the bleed then that would be enough to make it feel like you had some counterplay against it, but also mean that as the crossbow/bow player you need to make sure that you are either very quick with the pull out, or aggressive with pushing to stop them from being able to start stopping the bleed.
@@thomasell They have to hit you twice with a point and shoot gun vs they have to hit you once with the shittiest balistics in the game and you have a chance to shoot them in the head between them hitting and blademancering you aswell, you probably have more time to do that vs blademancer even.
Youre exactly the kind of person im talking about, all you see is "hes killing me by pressing darksight, no skill, broken trait" and forget that he *has to play crossbow and hit you with it* to use blademancer in the first place.
If blademancer was as strong as the amount of crying suggests, everyone in the higher tiers atleast wouldve played it everytime over romero/rival atleast, after all why wouldnt you pick the easy close range oneshot weapon that also has the potential for a harder to aim longer range oneshot?
But that didnt happen because even with blademancer, even at ranges were drop and velocity dont matter, the long romero is objectively a far stronger gun.
@@thomasell that would be some fine counterplay ideas for sure! I don't agree with the crown logic though. it can pen, has 5? shots, and once you have hit once the second one is incredibly easy to "target" as you where already on target the first time. Plus you have time to shoot them in the head between dark sight pulls. I have killed at least 4-5 blademancers before they pulled on me. I would even say you have more time then aim punch crown as that second shot from crown comes out faster then you can get into darksight.
L comment, you can hear the crown and king shoot, if they are super closed crouched up to you you can here them crouch.
Bows there are no real counter play when some dude sits in a bush silently killing you with no idea where from
This « without counterplay » argument is a total nonsense lol. In a lot of situation this was supposed to get a kill anyway.
Hard agree here. As mostly a crossbow main, blademancer is just an improvement to bs rng. However, i do think crytek could buff bow/xbow by shrinking the crosshairs that trickshooter does, and up the dmg multipliers in various hunter hit boxes.
I don't have issues with keeping it, but I disagree in keeping pullout damage as it is not `pulling out' the bolt/arrow but `summoning' it back into your inventory/load out. Your argument `it's harder to hit with bow/xbow' and `if you hit an arm/leg you don't get full damage' is not justification for allowing the weapon to have a damage boost. You argue fast fingers/fanning/iron repeater/etc boast weapons and they do... but not the damage per shot. People pay for weapons and use them based on their game playability (what style works or that they want to run). Choosing one weapon over the other does not `reward' you in any way other than letting the player be excited over those long shots with slower weapons. I like the ability to replenish with the trait (call back bolts/arrows/throwables) and can see that being a valuable long-term trait in the game. I just feel that pull-out damage is where the balance shifts. You get a free damage boost for recalling your bolt where as pull-out damage is a bonus based on actual risk as you have to physically perform the action. Blademancer allows you to shoot blindly into foliage/corn/brush/darkness and pray for a hit knowing any hit (arm/leg/other) will likely result in a kill with no risk. So, nice vid, good to stoke a conversation. Put me down pro-blademancer with the no-pull-out damage caveat.
its not a direct dmg boost. its a Damage over time. you hit and then go into darksight and pull. if you die in between you don't get the pull dmg. sparks fast fingers is a damage over time trait as well. same with Iron Eye. Hopefully this helps on where I'm coming from. Also there are traits that strait up increase dmg. i. e. Berserker and Assailant at least.
I wouldn't put blacemancer and traits like fast finger/iron eye into the same category. I would say blacemancer is more like a "direct damage buff trait with a slight delay". Because traits like fast finger only gives you more damage if you manage to hit the second shot, which requires you to pass a "skill check". While blademancer damage is guaranteed as long as you don't die immediately after hitting the shot, which requires very little skill most of the time. And that's where I think the balance goes wrong since before blademancer the only direct damage boost traits requires you to be at melee range while blademancer does not.
So, according to part of your logic, Quad Derringer should one shot because its difficult to land those shots?
I think its a risk - reward situation, the trait should maybe stay in the game if you can pull out the projectiles only if you can see the target at 10m max.
Because getting tag by a random deadeye crossbow 80m away its equal to dead, its not healthy. Its still 1 shot weapon but its silent and it puts bleeding, it doesnt need more stuff at long range.
quad derri does get rewarded my friend. if any of those shots hit head. the person dies. it gets 4 shots and can shoot them almost as fast as a bornheim which takes a weapon slot. it is also a tool slot so i think that's a pretty good reward for a tool slot.
how many times did you personally die to crossbow at 80+ m in the past two weeks? I'm curious
@@khalamity2249 I died to all of those "tags" + trait in the past 2 weeks. Maybe between 10-15 times, playing like 2h per day if i played.
The problem is that half of those times it was a scope crossbow guy 60+ meters away. Im a 6 star MMR too, so, the bush wookies are real with that weapon + scope.
honestly my take is to make it not possible to pull out of living targets beyond 20 meters, i only play bounty clash so i hardly see this trait though lol
Blademancer is fun and fine overall, but saying "you should be dead" because you hit somebody in the arm or leg doesn't do it for me, personally. "You should have died except hitbox" seems like a strange form of cope. Arms and legs are real things. Hitting somebody in the arm or leg is bad luck. I agree Hunt has a lot of ways to pull those hitboxes across the chest, but not everything needs to penetrate every hitbox, I feel. If you want to penetrate the arm hitboxes then bring any of the things you listed in the video with the function to do that. And while you should still be able to blademancer those items back, 70 damage free(with berserk) on a pullout seems a bit much. It's definitely a nuanced balancing act and a variety of ideas could be implemented to make this trait balanced and still fun.
There should be pros and cons to every item in a loadout. Homogenizing things to perform like the rest of the things isn't how you make something more fun.
its not about homogenizing, its about rifles being the best thing in the game, shotguns being second best, and bows and crossbows etc being third best. They try to buff the consistency of the third group AFTER nerfing the first group and buffing the second group. When the second group was buffed, people lost their minds, then settled down. Then they buff the worst group and people lose their minds again.
a couple things to note about penetrating arms and legs. 1. they have to already have nothing in the way to hit you because they can't pen, which means you exposed yourself. not somethin you have to do with shotguns and rifles. and then they have to beat your 500ms on average rifle or 425ms shotguns both of which shoots STRAIGHT with a 150ms or 210ms bolt that has massive drop. 2. there are a lot of circumstances where legs and arms can get in the way that I don't think you are realizing. If someone even has a slight height advantage on you, your chance of hitting legs and arms goes up exponentially. How much height advantage is in the game? 3. these weapons already play differently and blademancer even makes the identity of the bows and crossbows stronger in my opinion. as they can retrieve their ammo which you cannot do on shotgun and rifle.
the "you should be dead" agreement you make is inconsistent. people like to make arguments for realism until it goes against their fun. arms and legs are real things. so is hemorrhaging, stress induced heart attacks, major crucial arteries in the legs, blackouts, and gun jams. but I don't see people wanting all of that in hunt.
@@khalamity2249 First off, thanks for the time responding! Appreciate it! I'm trying to pull from my own experience as much as possible, so please understand I ain't looking to discredit what you're saying, just add my own perspective! If we disagree, I hope I do a good job of making it about the points!
I've only got a fraction of the hours you do, at 3.2k, but I don't think I'd be able to definitively say that rifles > shotguns > everything. Just doesn't sound right to me. Everything has a place and situation where it is better than something else on the list. And while I see you argue later that the crossbow and bow are put at disadvantage more often than rifles and shotguns, making them penetrate more things doesn't feel llke the good way to go about fixing that. I don't even think that what's currently in the game is bad! I agree with you that blademancer makes the game better and more fun for those who prefer throwing weapons and bows/crossbows! I don't think it should have ramped damage from berserker(or if it does, it doesn't need to be almost half of an enemy hunter's health. I literally know people who have been stabbed and while it's bad, they didn't die from it. Or from removing the thing that stabbed them.)
1: I don't disagree with anything you're saying here. I just don't see that as a problem because it's an acceptable con, to me, if you want to run a crossbow. If there isn't a pro that offsets that enough then I think that can be addressed. And I think that blademancer is a good way to give crossbows an extra oomph in combat. And while I've seen my fair share of "crossbow hits arms and does nothing" I've also seen more than a few shotgun close quarters exchanges where 15 damage from buckshot has been done in a 6-7 metre space. Getting your ammo back, them bleeding, and it being silent seems like very solid pros to offset the occasional limb shot. As I don't use crossbows regularly(as in every day or every other day I'm playing) I haven't found that I get "screwed" out of crossbow kills any more often than I do shotgun kills.
2: No argument from me on this point. I do agree/think that far too many animations bring the arm and leg hitboxes over the body hitbox and that people will take advantage of that in the most "gamer" of ways. When playing in a MMR where every little move can count I can see this being more frustrating than in lower MMR lobbies where you aren't punished for every little mistake, necessarily. Would love to see some clean-up work done on animations or changes entirely in order to make bolts, arrows, and throwables more reliable in that regard.
3: I could have been better about what I meant when I said "Arms and legs are real". I didn't mean realism as in real life, I meant more as in those hitboxes are a thing, should continue being a thing, and makes sense that they would block a shot from a crossbow or an arrow. THAT SAID there is definitely an argument to be made that within a certain range it shouldn't matter if a crossbow hits your arm that's in front of your chest. With that much power it's still going to go thru your arm and into your chest.
In the end, I don't know a good way to make blademancer/berserker combo feel good to play against. Maybe make it so it's not instant. Or does less damage. Or has a shorter range. I really don't know.
If you bothered to read this far, thanks dood. It was a great video with great points that I think causes people to really think about a game they really love.
@@OgreBanani Thanks for the response and I do agree with you on most things. One thing I want to challenge you on is the 1 rifles 2 shotguns 3 everything else. Have you seen hunt showdown tournaments? its 90% rifles with a crown shotgun or avto thrown in (which is a rifle but not like other rifles). Why would that be the case if everything has a place? Rifles have been the most consistent type of weapon in hunt for 6 years in my opinion. Why do you see a ton of rifle spam even in bounty clash which forces players to be even closer then regular bounty hunt matches? Why do you see fully geared 6 stars all using mosin dolche? if crossbow has it's place at least some of them should be bringing it in proportion to the amount of rifles being brought. The reason for a lot of this, in my opinion, is that the rifle is consistent at 5 m, 25m, 60m, 100m, 150m, etc. some rifles lose consistency the further out they go and those rifles get brought in less than the more consistent options. Do you nerf rifles in case or do you buff the other weapons to make them at least a bit more consistent?
When it comes to making blademancer feel good to play against. I don't think that should be an answer that needs to be solved. and if it is, then all of the things following should be solved as well. It's a pain in my ass everytime i go up against dolche spam, dualie spam, crown slug spam, terminus levering dragonbreath spam, levering spam, fanning spam, grenade spam, mosin spam from 100m, officer carbine spam, marathon fmj spam through multiple walls, specter bleed spam with a sparks or something on the backend, explosive crossbow spam, revive bolt spam, the list goes on. But for some reason, people don't make a fuss over a lot of this right now. NONE of that feels good to die to. It's because they settled down and realized it wasn't the end of the world and that there are some counter elements to some of this even though none of it feels good to die to. This game has a lot of unfair ways to die. One more is not the catalyst that breaks the mules back.
Thanks for being a kind and considerate debater. It nice to talk opinions with people and no one is getting aggravated
@@khalamity2249 As I don't have a lot of experience up in 6 star lobbies (in the number of hours I've played I've MAYBE spent a few hours TOPS in six star lobbies) I can't speak to that mindset, but I definitely see your point. In the high tier/stakes/MMR lobbies there is most definitely a predomination of those loadouts. It's all over the TH-cam highlights of a large variety of Hunt players.
I definitely see your point of view and I don't even disagree with it! I hadn't considered the "In a game with so much already unbalanced/unfair, does it matter to have another in the sake of loadout balance." And I honestly can't think of any good answer as to why it shouldn't.
So uh... yeah. Fuck it. I'm convinced.
ITS THE KHALAMITY HIMSELF
great vid as usual :D
imo, the blademancer nerf was required. i dont think the majority of kills coming from the pull out feels good to go against. my idea is that you buff the damage falloff on all bows and crossbows. making it a guaranteed kill in the torso at lets say 75m because you hit a good shot and you should be rewarded for it. and then blademancer should deal 0 dmg. i dont think you should get a kill because you went into darksight after a hitmarker and thats it, just reward skillful play.
and coming from an avid crossbow user before blademancer for the love of everything holy, nerf the steel bolts so they arent just better bolts. i thought the balance philosphy was the ammo does something new for a price.
faster = less dmg
more pen = slower shot
bleed = slower shot and no pen
fire = cant pen
poison = ai shredder but again cant pen
then comes steel bolts and its just. yup. goes faster. everything else is the same
feels good to go against? does levering centenniel feel good to go against? marathon fmj through wall? crown slugs? terminus levering dragonsbreath? dualies? nitro? avto? fanning? bleed ammo? explosive crossbow? frag spam? there are a ton of things in this game that don't feel good to go against. Why arent they being talked about when it comes to feeling good to go against? my point is that there is very little "fair" weapons to go against and that is not a great point to argue if something should stay or go.
your diea seems fine. anything that makes crossbow/bow etc more consistent is sweet.
If you ask me, damage drop-off is out of control. It punishes you for making harder (longer) shots.
We don't like 300m rats tho.
@@hYdrantoxide this game will always have 300m rats unfortunately
yea bow and crossbow kinda seems useless again
This is such a bad video. You're reasoning for it being good is that sometimes you don't hit your target and you think that's unfair and think Crytek should give you the kill anyway. Like sorry you hit their arms but that's part of the downside that comes with a bow, lack of penetration, hit your shots better or shoot them again.
On top of that you think that just because a weapon is hard to use at range it should give you free kills every time you land a hit? Hey guess what, if you hit them in the head it's still a one shot. You want Crytek to reward you with a kill for being able to land a shot outside of the recommended range for that weapon.
Do you also want Crytek to give you kills every time someone moves and you miss a headshot? Like jesus it feels like you tried to use bows and crossbows one time and got upset that you hit a guy in the arm instead of the chest and it drives you crazy to this day. If you hit them in the arm, you didnt hit the chest, you dont deserve the kill. It's as simple as that.
ooph. I think you missed every point of the video. Thanks for watching and commenting though!
Crossbow and bow type of weapons are not the same as shotguns and they are strong in different aspects. You trade consistency for a silent weapon, the bleed effect, retrievable ammo AND the potential to one shot someone at 20-30 meters. These are all things that a shotgun with buckshot can't do EVER. You are already rewarded with all these benefits for using a harder to hit/less consistent weapons. I don't think just because it's a harder shot is enough to justify blademancer being able to deal 35 (the exact number may be wrong but I think people will get my point) extra damage ignoring all damage drop off and cover, on top of that you also get infinite ammo. Why should you be rewarded with such good benefits just for pressing E?
Another thing I want to say is that we already have shot bolt for consistent one shot at close ranges. And the bow also has the hundred hands trait that, if I remember correctly, allows you one shot in the arm at close range. Why do you need blademancer on top of that?
@@edwardharrison43 the shotbolt is not consistent. Try it out in the shooting range sometime. The shotbolt is supposed to one shot if you hit directly anywhere, toe etc doesn't matter (which I might add has been in the game for a long time and people don't really complain about it?) but it doesn't always and the problem is exacerbated by ping and the servers. I have been hit many times and not died and have hit many people and they have not died. (BTW, whats the trade off for shotbolt? less muzzle velocity but it can pen and one tap legs? It doesn't need bleed technically because it is supposed to always one shot.)
Inconsistency is the main reason i like blademancer. it makes somethings in the game more consistent. Which I think is a good thing. we can argue on specifics but the over arching idea is consistency. Huge RNG swings make people frustrated and stop playing. When you shoot a shotbolt, at 5 meters it hits, and doesn't kill and you died from the guy 1 second later from a romero shot they shouldn't have gotten. it feels frustrating and like the game didn't work properly. Which it didn't. It's the same way with shotguns that hit directly to body and don't kill. it feels reaaaaly bad, like luck wasn't on your side and that's the only reason you lost. I argue there is enough RNG in the game that getting rid of some of it is better for the game. Crytek seems to agree as they buff shotguns a few months back and have now buffed bows and crossbow, throwing knives etc. I don't know how much you have used crossbow and bow without blademancer, but I'd recommend a couple of weeks worth of playtime on em and see how inconsistent these weapons are.
@@khalamity2249 I used to play the crossbow a lot so I know it can be extremely frustrating when you hit an arm shot. However I haven't experienced the shot bolt inconsistency you mentioned. But either way I think we can both agree on that shot bolt should 100% of the time one shot if it works properly, and that should be a solution to the inconsistency issue. Blademancer also is a solution to the inconsistency, but my point is that since we already have hundred hands and shot bolt that take care of the inconsistency issue, these weapons doesn't need the be buffed further with the trait.
Another point I want to make is that blademancer creates more problems than it solves. The only problem it solves is the inconsistency. But here are the problems with blademancer imo:
1. It rewards unskilled interaction. Unlike any other weapon in the game that needs a follow up shot to finish off a enemy, you only need to tap E for blademancer to deal damage for you. Quickly tapping E in the general direction of the enemy requires little to no skill compared to hitting a second shot, yet you get rewarded heavily with you ammo back and a flat amount of damage which isn't affected by damage drop off.
2. The blademancer damage isn't affected by damage drop off, and it is against common sense in hunt. Everything deals less damage at range, effects like bleed also are less severe when you're hit from a further distance, yet blademancer defies common sense and deals the same amount of damage at any range within 100m.
3. Currently it still works with berserker and if you die from the pull damage the "distance to killer" stat on the death screen shows "melee". This is more of a technical issue that if crytek is able to fix then it's fine. But anyone with the right mind can agree that if you pull out a bolt with blademancer you're not dealing melee damage. And getting killed by someone in a bush that you can't hear (because the weapon is silent) and have no idea how far away is the most frustrating experience in the world. If they can't get the coding done properly, they should get rid of the trait.
4. Blademancer breaks the original trade offs of this type of weapons. Imo crossbow/bow type weapon trade consistency for a lot of benefits that no rifles or shotguns have like silence, AI utility, bleed, further one tap range to the upper torso. If you want consistent one shot at close range, you have to either take shot bolt, which limits you range effectiveness by having more drop and less velocity, or you spend 2 trait points for hundred hands if you take the bow. These weapons are strong in their own way and the trade off is fair and balanced in general. Blademancer completely breaks the balance by giving these weapons nitro level one tap range and practically gives you infinite ammo. If blademancer stays in the game I would say crossbow and bow type weapons needs a major update to re-balance the trade offs.
In summary, instead of introducing a new and problematic trait, I think it's better for Crytek to work on and reevaluate the current state of the crossbow and bow to make people find them more fun.
Edit: hundred hands trait requires the bow to be fully drawn to deal extra damage, and it also extend the time needed to fully drawn the bow. This is again a trade off since you only get extra damage if you commit it to a fully drawn shot, sacrificing fire rate and the ability to run.
If you nerf blademancer i feel like the others should be nerfed to!
Well said Khal, I 100% agree as a person who plays solo with the bow
The whole argument was based around limb damage. The perk is busted and it's cope to think it's not.
Facts
berserker with blademancer is another topic. thats a lot of dmg. blademancer by itself is not imo and it's cope to blame a trait for your death when you prob shouldn't have been hit by a bolt that can't pen and can be baited as it's a slow muzzle velocity.
The pullout should do 35 and 70 with berserker. I’m really sad about the changes. Hitting bow shots from like 50+ meters is hard and should be rewarded.
The reward is damage and making them bleed. Do you want crytek to start giving you kill when you sneeze at an enemy?
As a bow and crossbow main player I thank you for this brillant analyse. Lot of people don't understand how inconsistant are bow and crossbow… even with the old blademancer !
For the people that want to see at what distance does the bow / crossbow do what damages, this calculator is a great tool.
Let's do some test with it to understand how freaking useless is the arrow pull with the 14 degat blademancer right now :
- Without hundred hands: At more than 36m you do less than 136 damage in the upper torso you will not be able to kill, even with the bow drawn at 100%. It means that at more than 36m, if you don't have the trait, the bow is just here to assist. Not to kill.
- With hundred hands: At more than 45m you do less than 136 damage in the torso you will not be able to kill, even with the bow drawn at 100%. If you do a 55 / 60 m upper torso shot with all the body part hiding your target upper chest. It will not even kill with blademancer haha.
- With hundred hands: It will not even kill at 12m in the arm or legs. Just imagine hitting at 12m the arm just because the guy goes sideway and don't get the kill even with blademancer lul.
It's good to know the exact number so thank you for the information. But I fail to see why it is problem a that a bow can't one shot a enemy at 30+/40+ meters. No weapon of the other types (other than nitro) can one shot a player to the upper torso at more than 20 meters while also having very consistent one shot to any body parts that's not the leg within 10 meters. Very often with buckshot shotguns you don't one tap a hunter at 12m if you miss the center mass by even a little bit. I wouldn't deny the fact that the bow is less consistent than a shotgun in the 10 to 15m range but you trade consistency at those ranges for the silence feature, the utility for AI, the bleed affect and the potential one tap to the upper torso at 30+ meters. Don't forget that we're comparing the bow with 3 slot shotguns too. Imo it's a reasonable trade off for the bow (or the crossbow) to be a bit less consistent at some ranges but gets the other great benefits. That's why I don't think they need a direct damage buff since it breaks the balance of the original trade offs.
I agree that blademancer should stay, it's a nice QoL trait, but I'm really glad they reduced the pull out damage. It was too high, and it's so stupid that berserker works with it. I don't think Crytek thought about it counting as melee. I really doubt that it was their intention for it to work with berserker at all. I think we can all agree that when we're using bladmancer, we're not doing melee damage.
If berserker didn't work with it, I think a lot of people would have different opinions. So many people blaming blademancer for a berserker problem
Re your points on limb damage: what if someone actually missed the body and hit the arm - now they kill as if they hit centre mass? Unless I'm missing something, I don't think you really thought this particular point through.
I think blademancer is cool and should stay but it does look like it will require some further development which will take time and that, I believe, is why they simply nerfed it. Though, I know what you mean about people overly complaining and that it may actually stifle the game so I would like to know if Crytek actually does some analysis before implementing changes or they simply base it on discussions in the community.
I did think the point through. My rational is that the game could use more consistency and less RNG in in general. I would rather the crossbow kill to arms (after pull out) at 10 meters then not get a kill with a weapon that does 240dmg at 10 meters when hunters only have 150 health. If crytek wants to make it do less dmg that would be fine, be my guest. But in no way should someone survive that kind of dmg at 10 meters. arm or not.
In a perfect world though I would have crossbow do the same thing mosin bullets do when it comes to hitboxes. arms that are in the way of a higher dmg hitbox do not stop the bolt from doing the highest hitbox dmg. So if the arm is the only hitbox it hit, then it does arm dmg. if it hits arm but the chest is behind it, the player dies. However with the crossbow being a weapon that doesn't pen, it has extreme inconsistencies and can't do that. blademancer is and interesting workaround that I think the devs were trying to get rid of some of that inconsistency. Just like they did with shotguns in the past.
Even if we'd agree that Blademancer mechanic is too strong (in it's original state), they nerfed it 2x more than it should be. In my opinion, Berserker should be excluded from the equation and Blademancer pulls should do damage consistently exactly as you sad: for improving consistency of use those difficult enough weapons. With 14 dmg at the moment we are just not there (14 is for torso, limbs even less).
Of course Blademancer also is a great utility/QOL but there is no controversy in it.
On second thought we can nuance this topic and talk solutions like arrows penetrating arms not walls or maybe more dmg to arms not legs, maybe even cancel bandaging, go hevy bleed, ect. But at the end the same goal should be clear: consistency. People complaining about 80m shots are missing the point.
And there is nerfing pulling dmg in general, not only by this perk: wich is lame. It rewarded brave plays and was very satysfying.
14 is at least a star. it's better then nothing.
I would love if arrows penetrated arms and hit the highest dmg hitbox in its trajectory
@@khalamity2249If arrows/bolts penetrate limbs then wouldn't crossbow/bow just become silenced shotguns with slugs dumdum ammo that deals 240 something damage that you can also retrieve your ammo? At that point why would you ever take a shotgun ever or even bother spending extra hunt dollars on slugs?
I love the bow and used it a ton but ultimately gave up on it cause it’s not consistent and I got so sick of shooting people within 10-15m then bladmancer made so it could actually be rewarded for my skill and now it’s neefed and first game I shoot a guy 12m away then suck my arrow back and he survives and kills me. Like wtf
Great video.
Thanks for watching!
My main issue with it honestly isn't the hunter damage, it's that it trivializes pve. If it stays it needs to be a scarce trait
penny derry, bomblance, most melees, spear, penny shotguns in general, poison bombs, levering, fanning, dualies, etc trivialize pve as well. should they all be scarce as well?
@khalamity2249 those don't come with infinite ammo
I love blademancer's Goated quality of life improvement potential, and agree that it should stay, but Crytek did the right thing by nerfing the pullout damage.
I understand the frustration with not getting a 1HK up close, but that also still happens with shotguns, and I'm pretty sure it's for the same reasons...
Bolts/arrows might get blocked by arms, but I'm pretty sure that buckshot can't kill with a single headshot either, so every weapon has it's weird drawbacks.
Plus, you gotta be honest here, people's issue with bladmancer was not dying inside 10 meters, it was getting winged at 20-30 meters and then getting killed via pull--out, by someone hiding behind a house with no line of sight.
im fine with nerfed dmg. i dont think berserker should have doubled blademancer dmg
I agree that blademancer should stay, and with several of your other justifications, but I dont know if this core argument of "you should have died" is very good. I think that RNG is a bit of an overused term these days, and I dont think the lack of penetration or potential to not kill due to an arm blocking your shot is RNG. its a known downside of the weapon you chose to bring in. The lack of penetration is a known factor.
Sure the fact that an opponent may live due to luck cuz they happened to be charging a melee, or holding a bomb lance or whatever may be frustrating for you, but so is someone randomly jumping or ducking what would have otherwise been a headshot. It happens. Its the nature of the game. That would be like taking a shotgun, hitting someone at 20m and being mad they didnt die cuz of RNG. Its not RNG, its a known downside of shotguns that they are bad at range. Similarly, bow/crossbow is bad at penetration. You sacrifice penetration to get a silent weapon, with solid 1 shot potential at short range assuming no blockage, retrievable ammo, pressure from bleed and utility thru explosive/poison options. So I dont feel that your core justification is all that strong, in my opinion.
I do think, however, that blademancer is a great utility and QOL perk that I hope at least that portion of it stays. I think reducing the pullout damage and eliminating the berserker interaction is fair. I think the pullout damage should still be enough that if you hit upper arm, they still die, but not enough that if you hit like leg or something they die. They could also make pulling out of a enemy take longer than just retrieving them from the ground which is instant. Some combination of these things i think could achieve a balanced trait. Bow is honestly pretty strong already, crossbow I think def needs the help.
I agree that blademancer encourages people to go for longer range shots with the potential to be rewarded, or to easily retrieve any misses. But I also think that you cant be mad if your 80m crossbow shot doesnt kill, as awesome as it is. You know the stats of the weapon. Im not mad when my winfield doesnt 2 tap at 100m. If they want it to, they can changer the stats of the weapon to allow it somehow im sure. But maybe thats just not their vision for the weapon.
edit: I saw someone else suggest the bolt should be able to specifically pen arms to allow 1 shot kills if the chest is behind the arm. I think that would also be fine if they want to go that route. Im not against it 1 shotting on a well aimed, close range shot or even doing so with the pullout from blademancer. Just arguing that their current vision for the weapon says it shouldnt, and we as players need to factor that in when we choose it.
I completely agree with your take on this one. One thing I would like to add is that crossbow has shot bolt for very consistent one shot if you get a direct hit on any body part. And the bow with the hundred hands trait also allows you to one shot a enemy hunter in the arm up to 10m. This whole "you should have died" situation at close range already has a solution before blademancer was introduced. At mid range the crossbow or the bow should never one shot a player with normal ammo unless it's a head shot since it's already pass the intended effective range of the weapon. Getting one shot by a crossbow/bow at 40+ meters when hit in the lower torso/arm is 100% not how the weapons was intended to work.
@ ah you’re right. Shot bolt and hundred hands do quite effectively mitigate those downsides already. Good point.
@@drfrankendoodle I agree with your take for the most part. the main difference point would be that it matters the level of inconsistency. rifles are consistent almost everywhere, the ones that are less consistent are still more consistent then crossbow and bow after 20m. rifles are still very consistent in crossbow and shotgun range and very consistent outside of crossbow and shotgun range. they made shotguns more consistent a few months ago and now they are a lot more reliable. crossbows and bows are inconsistent in there preferred range and have fallen behind. the devs are trying different ways to buff them without changing core mechanics like penetration specifically for them, I'd imagine.
It's funny you bring up shotbolt as it is a perfect example for a lot of things. 1. it has been in the game for a looooong time and it is supposed to one shot, even on hand/foot hit and can pen. How many people have complained about shotbolt recently? would you argue that shotbolt is stronger then crossbow blademancer? You don't even get the second before they pull out to kill them, it just one shots you. Why are you ok with shotbolt but not the blademancer "you should be dead" argument. 2. Even though shotbolt is supposed to always kill on hit, it doesn't. if you go in the shooting range, you will find maybe 1-5% of the time it will not one shot the target. That is just built in rng to cryengine. Like the hit just doesn't do what its supposed to. sometimes hitting people with any weapon will do zero dmg etc. ping and the crytek servers make the problem worse, but a weapon that is supposed to one shot, doesn't always. That said it's way more consistent then regular bolt. the regular bolt does 240 dmg. it is supposed to one shot you if the chest was in the trajectory. it just so happens that an arm was also in that trajectory. so a 240dmg weapon shot perfectly doesn't kill a 150 health enemy player. I still stand by my "you should be dead" argument. the player who shot the shot did everything right and gets punished, the player who was hit literally does nothing to survive that shot. They don't make sure they are behind cover etc, bait the shot, spaced the weapon correctly, etc. they made their mistakes and then get to survive because they were lucky. I'd argue that is bad game design to reward stupid plays with good results in my opinion. a little I can handle, but 30-40% of the time, naw. too inconsistent.
When it comes to far shots with crossbow and bow, the only way people are dying is because of the stacking dmg of blademancer and berserker. There are two traits in that equation but people blame baldemancer for a berserker problem. I said as much in the video. if you want to argue that it shouldnt do that much dmg far away. be my guest. But if you want to argue that you shouldn't be able to blademancer your bolt back for a little extra dmg especially to tip the rng in your favor up close. sorry but I disagree. I also stand by what i said when it comes to hitting hard shots, I think they should be rewarded, blademancer makes things rewarding. berserker makes things too rewarding in my opinion.
@@khalamity2249 I want to qualify my statement in that I have only been playing hunt since just before 1896 and have like 200hrs. So I'm certainly not as experienced as you. And that level of experience will unavoidably color my opinions. Not that it means im automatically wrong and youre right, but I'm willing to accept you're more likely to be on target with balance stuff.
With that being said, I think I am also not as jaded as many other players are by some of the things you describe (the luck aspects of certain parts of the game, bugginess, etc) and I do think that while 10k hours on anything can make you an expert, it can also give you a bit of a narrowed viewpoint.
Regarding shotbolt, the reason I am fine with it one shotting at close range is because the player specifically brought it in knowing it would do that and gives up other advantages to do so (such as retrievable ammo, bleed, blademancer, silence, etc). Its the same reason I am not upset when I get killed thru a wall with FMJ, or one tapped by a sparks follow up cuz they brought incendiary etc.
Whether custom ammo should exist is its own argument, but so long as it does, I will never be upset when a given custom ammo fulfills its purpose. If people want to "always" (assuming no bugs) one shot at close range with crossbow, they can bring shotbolt. It also allows them to pen walls overcoming another downside of the weapon. Blademancer allows them to keep all the advantages of arrows while also gaining the one shot capability. I wonder too if people dont like blademancer because its tough to know if someone has it and play around it. You basically just have to assume anyone with a bow has it and play accordingly which slows the fight down because you know if you jump peek and they get an arm shot youre likely dead.
Another point I want to make is I do not like when devs use things like traits to address core gameplay or balance issues. This is something I saw a lot when playing dead by daylight. The devs would often bandaid issues players had complained about for ages by introducing a perk to fix it, thus just mandating that perk in every loadout. Hunt could go down a similar path. I think its cool to have certain perks favor certain weapons/playstyles, but I would prefer they augment the playstyle or enhance a certain aspect rather than enable that weapon to be played at all. Like hundred hands def makes the bow better, but you can play without it. Iron eye makes rifles better, but you can play without it. But I think its a bit boring to have traits that are just straight upgrades. Like playing bow and intentionally not taking hundred hands makes no sense. I wonder if blademancer is an easy way to buff arrows/throwables without the difficulty of more focused balance tweaks.
I like that blademancer offers a different playstyle for bow/xbow in that you can play more aggressively, manage ammo economy better and go for longer range shots. So I think its a good example of a trait augmenting a weapon/playstyle. But I still dont know if im fully on board with your should have died argument.
Its weird cuz I agree with the core of your opinion, but I guess just not the main point youre using to defend it. I would have been fine with it if they left blademancer as it was. Im also fine with it in its nerfed state. They may continue to tweak it if it sticks around after the event (which I hope it does) but we'll have to wait and see what their final vision for the perk, and the weapon category as a whole, turns out to be.
Either way appreciate you engaging with me in discussion and continue to enjoy your streams/content. Its nice to have a conversation with someone about a game where theres a disagreement without it being rude.
@@drfrankendoodle Again I have to agree with you 100% on this one brother. The dbd part especially. I hated it when bhvr used perks to bandaid core gameplay issue and locked them behind licensed dlc. Luckily hunt doesn't have the same accessibility issues with the traits. I think blademancer does too much for the crossbow/bow that create this huge difference in gameplay experience with and without the trait. Whether blademancer is OP or not this is not healthy for the game. Having the trait or not shouldn't be a night and day experience.
Like Rex said people just love to complain. Its not bad at all. They see the best players in the world using it and think its crazy OP.
Finally. A sober and accurate opinion. Thanks for this.
appreciate that you think im accurate. it was a shot in the dark with my brain sometimes
1 view in 1 second. Bro fell off
At least the fall wasn't far
@@khalamity2249 😂 hahaha
You just literally need to not get hit, people complaining about how there’s no counter play ignore this very simple fact.
I remember Rakta making a video and repeating like a broken record that blademancer makes the game so easy. But the problem is that he doesn't even realize that non everyone is a nerd like him living in a videogame and that's not easy at all for ordinary players. Well, crytek watch Rakta we know that. And such streamers like him are the reflection of this rotten community that lacks any critical thinking and analytical abilities. Calamity though is obviously way smarter...
I love Rachta and he's a smart dude. He's a brother to me. The game is easy for him without blademancer though, so I don't see what point would be made there. Crytek watches all hunt partners that I know of as well. So that would include me too. I don't claim to be smart and I can be wrong. I need a convincing argument to make me change my mind though