Denethor before The Return of the King | Tolkien Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Despite his portrayal in the Peter Jackson film, Denethor was at one time a very skilled and successful ruler of Gondor. Though I won't go as far as to say he is a heroic character, there is much more to him than we see in the film. In this video, we go through Denethor's life up until we meet him in The Return of the King
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Bormir - Donato Giancola
Denethor and Finduilas - Catherine Chmiel
Finduilas - Catherine Chmiel
The Palantir - John Howe
Gondorian - Lasahido
Gondorian Infantryman - Jason Juta
The Horn of Bormir - Matt Stewart
Minas Tirith - Alan Lee
Barad-Dur - Steve Firchow
Turin and Finduilas - Elena Kukanova
Dol Amroth - Ted Nasmith
#denethor #lordoftherings #gondor
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Denethor was much more competent in the books than how he was portrayed in the movies.
MENENDEZ
@@Daddy-Saxon
WOODS! YOU KILLED JOSEFINA!
then Feanors palantirs, Sauron, the elements from before the 1st age. Denethor and all who came before.
outside the Ring's influence, Boromir was our hero.
Tbh, I’m okay with the movie’s change to him. Simply because I have a feeling that PJ didn’t want to take time to excuse Denethor being a jerk, and just decided to make it that he always was. And anyways, Denethor would end up the same regardless, and it helps Aragorn appear like the leader that is surely needed. That’s just my opinion.
"In the Return of the King film, Denethor isn't what you would call a heroic character." Understatement of the freaking decade.
😂😂😂
Not just the decade, the entire Age.
@@FallenOne669 the first, the second, the third AND the fourth age
Denethor had the right, as it was usually the Stewards who used them during the time of the Kings. Sauron could influence the meaning of what Denethor saw, but never was able to control him. Denethor was of an age with Aragorn, born a year apart. It was the Palantir that aged him. Had he not used it, he would have probably been a bit grayer in the hair than Aragorn, but as Gandalf said "the blood of Numenor runs nearly true in him". Had Finduilas lived, I believe, he would have been a MUCH different ruler than what he eventually became.
The death of Finduilas of Noldor ruined the life of Turin Turambar, the death of Finduilas the mortal ruined the life of Denethor... Tolkien loves to compare the First Age and the Third Age, or so it seems...
@@Raiseflag_Surrender Or, a cynic would say, recycles old ideas in new stories. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing...
@@KuK137 History repeats/rhymes, as they say.
@@KuK137 It does, that's the intent
Arda was born and sung off of a great song.
I always loved the extended scene of Council of Elrond in the movies where Boromir paraphrases the dream he saw and tries to take the ring.
For sure. One of the many examples why the extended LotR are so great!
@@NerdoftheRings There are some things that function better in theatrical cut but EXTENDED Cuts are great nonetheless and the definitive version to watch.
@@NerdoftheRings my gf has yet to watch the Extended Cuts but I assure her that once we watch the Extended versions, we can't watch the theatrical versions again. So much feels left out.
Power Of Berzerker the pacing and rhythm of the theatrical cut are damn near perfect, but the extended cut is awesome to see after you’ve experienced the theatrical cut, in my humble opinion.
I have never seen the theatrical cut so I can tell you 1st hand that you lose absolutely nothing in the way of a movie experience or in the way of pacing by having the 1st thing you see be the extended cut
It's nice to finally see somebody do Denethor justice. I am not happy that because of the films he is generally seen in a much more negative light, when he actually was a man of great quality!
Denethor's character is tricky. He's no villian, that's for sure. I'd see him as a tragic figure.
Totally agree. Very much a tragic figure. I want to do a video in the future talking about the similarities of Théoden and Denethor, yet how differently they handled their similar circumstances.
I'm reading the books now and am about to start Book 2 of Two Towers. I'll try to have that mindset when we (finally) reach Denethor
Tragic figure who was willing to age many years in minutes just to be able to confront Sauron. And this sacrifice leads to his madness at the end, which is understandable. But still a human being as good as Sauron, a higher being, in mastering palantir, is an impressive show of his strength, but this also weakened him greatly, but still he did it again and again for his country. And the fact that it took sauron so much time to break his hope, is very impressive, because sarumans hope broke much quicker and saruman is a wizzard, again higher being than man. But when sauron broke him, he would rather commit suicide than betray his people, like saruman did.
Even in his state of madness in the end, he was strong enough to not be brought to the side of evil. Which in my opinion is very noble. He was a good steward, maybe in less dangerous times, before return of sauron, he could be able to return Gondor to its former glory. But even frodo at the mount doom betrayed fellowship, by choosing to have ring for himself instead of having it destroyed, denethor would rather kill himself than betray his people. And the fact that he tought faramir was dead too, is not very strange, he was driven to madness by trying to do his duty, even if it caused him many health problems.
I think of him as a tragic character who was very close in becoming a hero. But grief and lack of hope just destroyed him, so he died before he could become a hero. If he used palantir less, he would be able to be one. But he tried, his best.
I think that movies were very unjust towards him.
And this Boromir vs Faramir thing. In books he also loved Faramir, but just loved Boromir more. This hatered and disgust towards his second son in movies is not true according to books.
Denethor is the epitome of the man who fights only by relying on his own strengths, the strengths he knows and can control. Definitely not the defector of the film. A bit stoic, and therefore ultimately desperate. Whereas in Lotr the heroes are those who know how to have trust in others, even in apparent weakness.
@@beniaminosani2719 He loses hope, which seems to be almost a sin in Tolkien's world.
Denethor was formidable in the books not to mention, he always knew what was going on. Hence that part, where he tells Gandalf that he knows who's with him in his travels.
In the Book he actually did came up with solid battle plan to defend Minas Tirith. The city survived until help could come in the books due to his actions.
He was also shown as someone who looked like a mage in Pippin's perspective. He did rival Gandalf in rhetorric and wouldn't to be outmaneuvered in a debate.
PJ really wanted to make it 'simpler and dumber' - like when Gandalf scolded Pippin when he offered the Steward his services. In the Book the wizard would never be that impolite in a serious situation such as an oath.
Damn, imagine being so strong-willed that even *_Saruman_* is helpless to stop you from spying on him.
What a lad
Under the circumstances it's a testament of the strength of the people of Gondor, that they can still muster the will to fight at all. Great topic and a fine video.
Thanks for watching! It is definitely a testament to the Gondorians facing such dire odds. Not to mention the effect that Gandalf has in giving courage to those around him!
Denethor is the quintessential example of power corrupting a well meaning heart.
I'd say it's closer to: a desire for deep knowledge gleans answers not meant for all bearers. Denethor learns things that break his hope, and eventually due to Saruon's sorcery/manipulation, his sanity.
you're wide of the mark. his downfall was a result of using the palantir. he could not be cowed,
but what he was made to see caused him to despair. his pride killed him.
Whats power corrupting about Denethor?
I wouldn't say power. I would say hopelessness.
Appreciate your comments! Pretty spot on I’d say. We need a similar grade of miracle for reality, or maybe the “doomer Denethors” are simply correct on the seemingly inevitable outcome. Placing my faith in the Tom bombadil perspective :)
Denethor always fascinated me and he was always a character that I , a novice of all source material, wished to learn more of compared to all others. So this video whets my whistle. Thanks!!!
So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
I really like him as a character. He has always fought for Gondor and the safety of Middle Earth. Sure, he was a bit paranoid and fell short as a father but definitely not the villain.
Sauron could not dominate D2 through the Stone, but he *could* control what was seen and influence the meaning taken therefrom, according to Gandalf.
In my personal head canon, that's how I believe Sauron controls the ancient kings of men (the Nazgul). With illusion and deception via their rings. Perhaps some think they are fighting orcs, and are re-embodied by an agent of the Valar? However in the Witch King's or Khamul's case I'd say they are aligned with Saruon entirely.
Sabin Ozera I like that, I’m adding it to my head canon as well lol
@@FromAgonyToLight He doesn't need to deceive the Nazgul, as their will is entirely slaved to him because of the rings he gave them.
@@LordVader1094 Sauron both punishes and threatens the Nazgul in the books when they fail. If they had no free will, why would this occur? There is no need to scold the fingers on your hand.
@@FromAgonyToLight
Maybe because Sauron is petty and cruel and feels the need to take his rage out on something. People talk to inanimate objects when they don't work properly, same concept just more evil.
This narrator is so far the best voice of all middle earth lore videos
John Noble is an amazing actor. His performance of Denethor is utterly perfect.
In the film, Boramir acknowledged his father as a nobleman but knows he's reign is coming to an end. It shows that Gondor needed a king or someone to guide them. His death was the final straw
Great editing as always. Also your voice sounds great for narrative purposes. Happy you are here to stay
Agreed! 👍
Thanks, John! So long as people are enjoying my videos, I’m definitely here to stay! 😁 If you guys ever have ideas/requests, feel free to pass them along!
1:35 "I'll save the rest of his story for another video" It's been a couple of years but I hope a Dol Amroth video is still on the production schedule. The most low-key union between an elf and a human in history is worth discussing.
Two months ago :)
@@spazemfathemcazemmeleggymi272 yep i was happy to see that when it came out.
In the book when Gandalf recalls going to Minas Tirith and it seems Denethor has met Saruman before
[Said Gandalf,] '... I forsook the chase, and passed swiftly to Gondor. In former days the members of my order had been well received there.... Less welcome did the Lord Denethor show me then than of old, and grudgingly he permitted me to search among his hoarded scrolls and books.
'"If indeed you look only... for records of ancient days, and the beginnings of the City, read on!" he said. "For to me what was is less dark than what is to come, and that is my care. But unless you have more skill even than Saruman, who has studied here long, you will find naught that is not well known to me, who am master of the lore of this City."
That’s a great quote! Thanks for sharing! I totally forgot about this moment. Interesting because we generally think of Saruman being a homebody in Orthanc. 😂 Makes me want to look up all the travels of Saruman and see where else he went!
OMG just as Gandalf throws the cloak on the Palantir, a commercial for the new Alexa-sphere-thing plays...
This video does Denethor justice. Many fans believe Denethor became corrupted by Sauron but I believe that Sauron was only able to subtly influence the visions. It was due to loss of hope because of Denethor’s OWN interpretation of the ring being lost while seeing the vast armies
It’s crazy to see how far this channel has come, amazing.
How interesting. Now that I think of it, I see some similarities between Denethor and Tywin Lannister. Dead wife, dislike of the younger son, old hardass ruler(although Denethor, unlike Tywin, is not a bloodstained maniac, until at the very end).
Tywin is the dark version of Denethor.
Samwise gamgee rhymes with samwell tarly
Don't disrespect Denethor like that.
Dude your style with these cards are very well. You will grow fast, good job :) Good info as well!
Thanks, man! I really appreciate the encouragement! And I will always welcome any feedback you have!
@@NerdoftheRings I think you are on the right path. You have developed your own style and the information is good. Now you just keep uploading and you will blow up at some point.
How did Denethor and Faramir hear Boromir’s horn all the way from Amon Hen?
Literal magic, most likely.
@@concept5631 haha most likely 😂 I was thinking too hard
Great post! But 'Findoolass'? I think it should have been 'Finn-dwee-lass' but maybe I'm being pedantic. I remember seeing 'Lord of the Rings' with a bunch of my colleagues in Kiev who afterwards got into what the names meant to them. Tolkien borrowed from Norse, Germanic and Slav languages and it blew me away how these Russian speakers instantly saw 'Boromir' as meaning 'fights for peace' or 'fights for the world' from 'voina', or 'war' in Russian and 'mir', or 'world/peace'. We all went again to see 'The Two Towers' a few years later and again, through the way Tolkien crafted the language of Rohan, they instantly saw it as Slavic-derived. My friend Dima even saying, "The Rohirrim are us I think." Germans however would recognize when Eowyn says "Begone foul dwimmerlaik" as coming from the words 'leiche' for corpse and 'dwimmer' resembling 'dammerung' or 'twilight' which a Russian would not recognize. All very playful. For most in the English speaking world, it all means nothing, but if you get into the linguistic richness he drew from, there's a whole other world.
Denethor was ready for fight with sauron. He was preparing his forces for the battle with dark forces. But also he was corrupted by sauron ..we always appreciate your hard work and dedication to make these videos.
Thanks for the video. I admit I forget about that part even though I read the books. In my defense, it was a long time ago. I should read them again.
I do love the actor who portrays him; and while he was only doing as the director wished, it was painful to see this character like so many others, destroyed. Thank you!
Speaking of Imrahil, maby next in this list?🤗
Your channel and videos are amazing. You certainly deserve an award.
That part in the movie where Faramir rides to his likely doom while Pippin is singing and Denethor is eating and chewing with his mouth open and smacking his lips made me hate him. Petty I know but that's my memory of Denethor from the movies.
Great video, nice to watch something NOT about Corona virus. Thank you.
Thanks for watching! So glad you enjoyed it. I’m hoping that my channel will provide some escape for people during this difficult time. No better place to escape to than Middle-earth! 🧙🏻♂️
That is not the character that I saw having read the books more than 50 times.
It's not petty to feel the emotion Jackson wanted you to feel during a scene. :P
Enjoyed your clear and concise account and the smooth editing! Subscribed!
So glad you liked it and thank you for subscribing! 😊
Going through the Legendarium (?) for the first time; and I feel bad for Denethor in the books. Definitely changed my open of him based on the movies
Unless I've missed it somehow, I'd love a video on Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth. I've been intrigued ever since reading the books where in it, as far as I remember Legolas, is described as him having elvish blood.
People forget that, at the time of Return of the King, Denethor was already fighting Mordor's forces for roughly 50 year. He knew nothing but nonstop war his whole life, and he was DAMN GOOD at managing it... Until Boromir, his most beloved son and best general, died, and Sauron became just too powerful for him to handle. THEN he got insane.
A great example of a man who is strong and very intelligent but doesn’t know what wisdom really is as a result of his pride. There are a lot of people who fall into this trap as they seek wisdom for reasons that are diametrically opposed to its culmination.
His character also makes me think of many of today’s climate scientists and environmentalists who have given up hope. Some have even killed themselves as a result of their knowledge of the broader context (Palantir).
Thanks for making this video!
Denethor WAS tragic in the film, but also seemed much respected by
his two sons, and the people of Minas Tirith. It seems obvious that his
fame and respect was won long before the Return of the King time.
Yet, he waned in strength and resolve, and fell into self pity about his
"line being ended" when Boramir was dead, and Faramir was almost
killed. All respect was lost when Denethor refused to acknowledge
that Faramir was still alive, and insisted on suicide for both he and
Faramir. Not only a cowardly act but also extreme self pity and self
glorification at the same time. Gandolf despised and loathed him
because of this, and I think was glad when Denethor jumped off the
white tower in flames to his death, after he and Pippin saved Faramir
from Denethor's funeral fire. ,
I don't really get why they cut him having the palentir out of the film.
It kinda explains why he thinks he knows better, and why he in fact does not.
i guess jackson thought it would be confusing for the audience , watching through the palantir almost caused pipin's death and even aragorn struggled , and jackson didn't wanted denethor to be an other super powerfull charactere so seeing him use the palantir would have bee strange for people
@@muggensan8611 its more stranger that he didnt have the palantir
maybe for us tolkien fans, but for regular audience their is already so much to understand on those (already really long and complexe) movies. Denethor was weak at this point of the story, maybe jackson thought it was not necessery to explain why. because that wouldn t add anything to the story... making a movie is something different than a book, you need to make choices if you want the adaptation beiing undertood by a larger audience
@@mrlove868 and the cool thing whith pj is even if some things are not directly said , he gave some references for the fans, and here when denetor said he "saw" who was with theoden ,we immidiatly understood he was talking about the visions he had through the palentir
Yes, but who eats a tomato like that?
As always, excellent stuff.
I feel the movie misportrays Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir.
Agreed. I’m so glad I dove into the books after being introduced to Middle-earth via the films. I think all 3 characters are so much more complex than you may thing from watching the movies. (Faramir taking Sam and Frodo to Osgiliath and initially wanting to take the ring to Minas Tirith probably the most egregious example.)
Yep especially Faramir, the ring always had NO influence over him (Not to say he was completely immune like Tom Bombadil) but the movies definitely made him a Boromir clone, at least initially, for some odd reason
Great video! 😊
My one major complaint with the LOTR films (barring some smaller ones) is the complete mischaracterization of Denethor. Jackson got so much right in the films but got Denethor oh so wrong.
Can you do a scenario video about what would have happened if Faramir had joined the fellowship instead of Boromir?
Denethor and Aragorn were both awesome badasses. One wonders what they might have accomplished together if they hadn't ended up as rivals. Aragorn seems to have had an excellent relationship with Ecthelion. What might have happened if his relationship with Denethor had been a good one? Might there have been some measure of quiet cooperation between Gondor and the Dunedain of the North, allowing them to work together to fight the shadow?
I wonder what his war campaigns during these years actually were. We do know that Aragorn burned the Umbar fleet under Denethor's father Echtelion, and next thing we have is Boromir arriving to Rivendell, talking about how Osgiliath fell under a sudden attack a few months ago, which was the opening move of Sauron in the war of the ring.
So what happened in between?
Denethor, Boromir and Faramir often point out how "for years Gondor held the forces of Mordor at bay" and pretty much leave an impression of eternal war, fought pretty well, with Denethor using his Palantir to "great success".
Thats 35 years of stewardship!
Unfortunately Tolkien didnt write what that meant so we can only guess.
But i'd presume several very succesful engagements with the enemy in Ithilien, South Gondor etc. Perhaps even crushing an army of orcs or two, because Boromir is already a proud warrior, and he must've gotten his battle experience somewhere. And Faramir is not shabby in that regard as well. With Denethor pulling the strings obviously, from the White Tower.
I'd say that before Osgiliath suddenly fell, they crushed some Minas Morgul army, which would explain why later on they are surprised at Osgiliath, believing Morgul to be neutralized. Also there was fighting in the South for sure, with Gondor victorious as well. Perhaps even in Anorien, because Rohan seems to have been on a little bit of a war footing as well, and at that point Saruman was not a threat, but an ally.
Probably Denethor greatly contributed to his victories due to intelligence gathered via Palantir, although later on Sauron used that to his advantage, by sending Denethor into despair, seeing how all this was in vain because he had some massive armies ready.
In the books of course, before losing his nerve, Denethor engaged in a very clever and costly for the enemy, defense in depth of Ithilien, Osgiliath and Pellenor, buying time to amass troops in Minas Tirith. Later Aragorn brought reinforcements from the south which Denethor also intended to his the enemy flank.
Denethor was winning battles for many years, but he knew he was losing the war because the enemies' forces were inexaustible. More of the Sauron's creatures he killed, more horrors would Mordor conjure to replace, while the enemy can simply regroup, and amass fresh troops after each loss, he couldn't afford to risk his standing positions and men. His men were alredy spread too thin as it is and he couldn't as easily replace his losses.
That's why all he could do is outmaneuver Sauron, outsmart his opponents, and get every advantage he could get. The ring, if not thought as the most evil object that is, could be a tool to level that playfield, or even hopefully get a very desired edge against Mordor. his thoughts could be something like: "If Elves commanded three of those rings into doing wonders, why couldn't we use one too?"
Thinking about it, in his perspective, It would be unfair that after all his efforts, he would simply be dismissed from his leadership in the last hour to be replaced by a rival that came 'out of nothing' from the North and wasn't sharing the same peril he, his sons and his men were for many decades.
@@rafaelfarias4359 Your reflection about the thoughts from Denethor's point of view are really interesting. I feel that people often overlook his cunning and intelligence.
I'm certainly sure that "Nerd of the rings" has done extensive reading about Tolkien's work.
I agree that the movies really misportrayed Denethor but to be fair there just wasn't time to develop a character of this complexity properly either.
I think, with Denethor (in the books), you could also draw similarities to Tywin from ASOIAF
Listen, I get that people want to think better of Denethor, and look to the films to justify their desire. But Denethor was not a "tragic" or "misunderstood" character. Though the page of the book might have the word "wise" on it, his every action was the exact opposite. Actions speak louder than words, after all... From the very start, he had the worst judgement of character. He distrusted two of the most trustful people in the world. He let his own petty jealousy prevent him from acknowleding the value his father (a far wiser man) put in both of them. He even dispised his own son for also befriending them. He even sent his own son to die out of petty revenge for all involved. For all his "wisdom" he still refused to follow the laws of his own nation, nor the commands of the last king, choosing instead to keep the rule of Gondor for himself and his line. He fell into despair rather than looking for aid, calling at least for counsel of those other free nations around him. His own paranoia kept him from hearing any advice. Does any of this sound like a character who is "misunderstood"?
Denethor was incredibly strong
Wait!! So the timelime of fellowship of the ring to the return of the ring was like month? I always thought the journey of the three books took at least a year from start to finish.
"It began in September 3018 when Frodo set out for Imladris, which he finally reached on October twentieth. From there it took five months until the One Ring and Sauron were finally destroyed on March twenty-fifth of the next year. In total, it took 11 months, one week, and six days for the One Ring to be destroyed."
Source -> lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Quest_of_the_Ring#:~:text=It%20began%20in%20September%203018,One%20Ring%20to%20be%20destroyed.
I detested the movie depiction of Denethor as IMO it was a warped travesty of what Denethor was in the books.
When you’ve got to portray a character in a film you’ve got to play up the most significant aspects of them (Denethors’s madness?)
100%
I wonder how different things would've turned out had Faramir gone to Rivendel instead
it would've gone even worse and faramir might died earlier than boromir earlier since his urge to gain denethor's acceptance is far greater than borromir's obligation to gondor, hence making faramir more vulnerable to the ring's temptation
@@alcherist4762That's doubtful. According to the book, when interacting with Frodo and Sam, Faramir clearly proved he wasn't interested in keeping the Ring.
Great guy.
Ok but does anyone else think the art depicting ecthelion looks like Ray from TPB? I keep seeing it on this channel and can't help but see it.
I watched him eat a tomato for 10 hours straight. I am now growing my own.
I’ve always wondered does it say in the books how Men built Minus Tirith?? Did the have help? And how long it took? I mean that’s far better then the pyramids 😂
Can anyone please identify/ name the tracks/ tunes in this video??
Thanks
Fantastic video. Personally liked the movie portrayal. Keep up the good work.
He's still wise and strong....
Yeah.... I understand his reasons for doing so but that doesn't change the fact that Peter Jackson had done Denethor dirty.
It you're going to talk about how the movie Denethor is portrayed differently than book Denethor then you should talk about the difference between movie Denethor and Faramir's relationship and their relationship in the book.
Denethor won a staring contest with palanthir against Sauron? now that's a statement of willpower, even if sauron was a weaker without a body
Are you sure its only 13 days after boromirs death that pippin arrives in minas tirith? Taken by uruk-hai, meeting treebeard, sitting through an entmoot, sacking isengard, meeting with his fellowship friends, looking into the palantir, riding from edoras to minas tirith.
Yes it all happens so quickly, but just 13 days sounds fast
If you read the appendices, Tolkien provides dates for every event in Appendix B and explains the calendar in Appendix D (the relevant fact is that there are 30 days in February). The horn is sounded on February 26th, the Gandalf reaches Minas Tirith on March 9.
The hobbits are taken by the Uruk-hai on Feb 26, meet Treebeard on the 29th, the Ents begin to march on the night of March 2nd, the parley with Saruman occurs on the morning of the 5th, and Pippin looks into the Palantir that night.
Note that this also means Frodo and Sam spend almost exactly one month on their own, too, as the breaking of the One Ring occurs March 25th.
“Strong, silent type...” What happened to them? Tony wishes to know.
Can you do a theory video of what if faramir went to rivendell instead of Boromir?
thankss
is he related to ecthelion guy who kill gothmog?
I believe him using the palantir made him be not who he truly was and is probably why Jackson and company portrayed him as almost evil...Also, if it was all closer to the books there is no way they would have been less than 4 hours long each!
Where did you find the music for the video I love it.
Question: Did the men of Gondor have Extended lives like those of Numenor?
Those who descended from Numenor like the kings did had extended lifes
@@Spiderfisch ty
Does "bending things to ones own will" hold a significance in Tolkiens world? Because there is a lot of will bending in the middle earth lore, which seems like a more nefarious way to say that a character is simply convincing in his ideas.
👍👍
Yeah...well
that tomato part
Sealed the deal.For him to be seen differently now would require a remake with him ...drinking maybe ?
Oh !
And not setting your son on fire...that's another one xD
There are differences between the books and the movies. Gondor had the strength to fight. The ghost army was used to defeat the corsairs. The ghosts never fought in the Palenor Fields. Instead it was the rest of the armies of Gondor that arrived with Aragorn to save the day.
3:16 like Gary Cooper
Theres a thread which says Aragorn and Denethor are resemblong each other.
where do you get the art for the cities of middle earth?? It looks great.
Google images
@@Sea-qv4sd thanks.
Strong silent type? Like Gary Cooper?
There are obviously a lot of good things about his trilogy in terms of how much work was put into it. Most of the costumes is how I imagined them while reading the book, a lot of the casting is perfect, and New Zealand is gorgeous, (even though it is a lot smaller and newer than Northern and Western Europe). Most of Howard’s Shore’s music is spot on, also.
But, again, it was the script that was trash. And, the fight and battle scenes that are supposed to be very long, are too short, and the fight and battle scenes that are supposed to be very short, are way too long.
I hated what the films did to Denethor and Faramir. Hence why I stopped watching Return of the King halfway through.
You’re quite a miserable person. Ignorant to the compromises a film has to make for the sake of clarity and in the name of time
Finish it. Aragorn's crowning and the fellowship at the Grey Havens were the best scenes ever on screen
I didn't even make it to the Return of the King. I would have walked out of the Two Towers if it hadn't meant abandoning my brother at the movie theater with no ride home. They should have given their made-up replacement characters new names. It would have made much more sense and been so much more honest than the disgusting pretension that they put onscreen. What a tragic waste of a movie!
So what makes a hero and at Rajiv figure?
So passes Denethor, son of Ecthelion. *Denethor falls from the edge of Minas Tirith*
You should do a "What if.." video of "what if Denathor sent Faramir to Rivendell instead of Boromir".
Denethor was an excellent ruler, no doubt about it.
If only he worked on his eating habits as much as he did his wisdom......
How is Aragorn just able to leave? Surely he would have taken an oath?
damn man, findweelas...
Tony Soprano would be a huge fan of Denethor, whith him being the strong silent type.
5:13 That's not actually true, Denethor was able to use the Anor stone but could ONLY see what Sauron wanted him to, he was strong enough not to be broken by Sauron but not to wrench the stone to his will, particularly as the Anor stone was the twin of the Ithil stone and thus highly attuned to it.
Thanks for bringing up this topic! Here’s a reference that I think will help clear things up a bit:
“Denethor could, after he had acquired the skill, learn much of distant events by the use of the Anor-stone alone, and even after Sauron became aware of his operations he could still do so, as long as he retained the strength to control his Stone to his own purposes, in spite of Sauron's attempt to "wrench" the Anor-stone always towards himself.” - Unfinished Tales
It goes on to say that Sauron couldn’t keep constant watch on the palantir - so it wouldn’t have been possible for him to ensure Denethor or Saruman only saw what he wanted them to.
Thanks again for bringing up this topic! It’s fun to dive into the lore and have these discussions! Cheers!
It's been way too long since I read Unfinished Tales, clearly I need to refresh my memory. I do seem to remember, possibly from Tolkien's letters that part of the reason Gandalf was in such a hurry to get to Minas Tirith was that he was concerned Denethor might have been using the palantir.
Either way the RotK film does Denethor's character a grave disservice, implying Gondor's readiness was poor when it was greater than Sauron expected.
Absolutely! There’s a huge difference between book and movie Denethor. Book Denethor certainly has great faults, but he is still a competent leader and a strong person.
The actor who portrayed denethor made this character very interesting. His role ended up making a little room for humor in the film.
The movie’s altered characters especially denethor and faramir. The extended edition did faramir better but my god.
13 days?! So you mean to tell me that what happened during the Two Towers happened in less than a week??!?!
was he overall good ?
Why is it that the kings of men had names of Ancient elven kings
So he's not a bad guy, but he's distrustful of all the good guys? Doesn't look like he's going to give the rightful kingship to Aragon as well.
Imagine if your family were given a homestead to live in. It's old, roof filled with holes, walls falling apart, sparse grass and in a bad neighborhood with punks that keeps breaking things.
For decades your family works, your grandfather fix the roof, it's not perfect, but no longer rains through, your father strenghten it's walls, so it's safe. Your mother water the grass, so it's garden is starting to look like a garden. And you after being born there, for years you and your children keep what they fixed, and also shoot the punks that tries to break things, while they just keep coming no matter how many times you expelled them.
Then, you receive an order of eviction coming from someone who claims he is the nephew from someone who owned there before your family moved in. You are to leave everything behind despite dedicating your life to it.
Can't blame him for being suspicious of the good guys. They never helped him, and were actively acting against his position.
@@rafaelfarias4359 have you heard of Jacob from New York?
@@l-kin3480 no
@@rafaelfarias4359 look him up. He moved into someone's home and said, "If I don't steal it, someone else will." He currently lives there as we speak while the owner is still fighting at the courts
Bravo 👏👏👏
Interesting! Which book did you use for the source of lore?
Well that explains why he resented farimir.
IIRC Denethor only started to use Anor stone after Boromir went on his quest to Rivendell.