- This is a series of novels utimately called the Solar Cycle. The first "part" is a four-book series called The Book of the New Sun (which Shadow of the Torturer is the first of) followed by Book of the Long Sun and Book of the Short Sun. - That is to say, there is a through-line. There is a reason for this story to feel like Severian is stumbling into things. It's the kind of story that has you think "oh, shit" every once in a while and it only starts to click the second time around for many people. - The author's notes are important. GW treated this as though he discovered and needed to translate a journal from the far, far, far future. Believe it or not every term he uses has been used in the English language before (although you may not find them in a dictionary) and the idea is that Wolfe needs to re-purpose them for things we have no word for. Quite often Severian is describing something we're very familiar with, that he doesn't understand himself, in an alien context. - Some major themes / influences on Wolfe: He was Catholic, and this series is on some level him exploring his own ideas about how much of his faith was "real". He was fascinated by time and memory. Both factor heavily into BotNS. He was also feakishly well-read, and these novels are full of obscure literary references (the librarian Ultan was based off of some other author he knew.) - Severian's philosophy often falls flat because he's trying desperately to justify his more questionable actions (and failing). He's trying to style himself as a philosopher-king but doesn't really hit the mark.
I see you know everything about the Book of the New Sun (and that's great, because it's also my favorite book)... but I bet you don't know that there exist a separate story that tells the adventures of Eata, one of the apprentice children of the Torturers' guild (but in adulthood) and also two stories from the Brown Book of Thecla that are not told in any of pentalogy's books, but which, however, are published in one of Gene Wolfe's collections of short stories and tales.
@@smaugthegolden33 I knew that something from the Brown Book was in a short story collection, didn't know there was anything about Eata in there. Neat.
@@colbyboucher6391 These stories appear in two different collections. Eata's is titled "the Map" and is the story of a boat trip across the Gyoll in search of a treasure (if I remember correctly); you can find it in "Endangered Species", along with the strange story "The Cat", narrated by Father Inire himself. And the Brown Book stories can be found in "Starwater Strains" (the book with the dog on the cover) and are titled "Empires of Foliage and Flower" and "The boy who hooked the Sun". All the best
It is a sci-fi book. The genre is called “Dying Earth”, named after one of Jack Vance’s short stories set hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of years in our future. Interestingly, the original Dungeons and Dragons was also influenced by the Dying Earth (spells are memorized, then lost when cast, Ioun stones, etc.)
It can be both sci fi and fantasy. Book of the New Sun definitely leans more on the fantasy elements than the sci fi elements, as does Vance's Dying Earth
The Night Land, The House on the Borderland (W H Hodgson) and Zothique (Clark Ashton) talk about the situation of humans in the distant future. Are these works precursors to the genre you're talking about? I don't know the author, which of his works would you recommend to get started?
@@SonofSethoitae I would argue that it is Science Fiction, in the category of what Arthur C. Clarke said was (paraphrased) “any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic.” But I see your point and acknowledge that you are no less correct than I am.
I maintain that Elemer (in image) is inspired by Shadow of the Torturer. You find him in a "shaded castle", across a polluted river, admiring a painting. And he wields an executioner sword.
I discovered Gene Wolfe a couple of years ago and this entire series is incredible. Then I read The Knight and The Wizard and was even more blown away.
The BoTNS is not fantasy. It is in fact, sci fi. But, it does read like a weird, dreamy, 80's fantasy. If you paid attention you might have noticed that the headquarters of the guild of the torturers.. is a rocket/space ship. You have to understand, for Severian his world is completely normal. So he doesn't really explain what things are. You have to puzzle it out. This book is being written by Severian.. from the future recounting his own story. And he gives a lot of things away very early on. *This also means, you have got a somewhat unreliable narrator. Severian will keep telling you that he has a photographic memory, that he can't forget stuff. But he will regularly get details wrong.* The BoTNS is full of electrical appliances, robots, ultra advanced technology etc. Including for example the mirrors of father Inire, which is a teleportation device for time and space. But these are all set in a very poor, feudal world. Where people live like medieval serfs and the world is completely disconnected from each other because fast methods of travel are only for the aristocracy etc. and it's literally illegal to use the highways that are still there from previous eras. The reasons for this are explained much later. The botanical garden they go too to get the Avern. That building is literally a building where the rooms are all connected to different places in time and space. E.g. Severian meets two people in the Jungle. Notice how they had very regular English names? The lady is quoting obscure parts of the bible. And there is a very old guy with them talking weird stuff. The Chapter Guide (same guy that wrote the Lexicon Urthus that was greenlit by Gene Wolfe) claims those are based on two characters from some novel. The guy that's with them has a name that means medicine man in Zulu.. When you google both English name + Zulu, you will quickly stumble upon a pair of famous Catholic missionaries who worked with the Zulu's. (Gene was a staunch Catholic). This is also why, when Severian looks out of the window, he sees (describes) a 20th century propellor plane fly over him. The rooms seem to be constantly changing and when you enter them you never seem to enter the exact same place except maybe for the place with the Avern and the funeral lake. The thing with the BoTNS is that you really cannot just read one of the books. You need to read all 4. If you are naturally perceptive and a bit obsessive. If you pay a lot of attention and read it like you're studying the book. You will probably end up getting 80/90% of the book(s) on your first try. If you just read through it with leisure, you will probably max understand 30% of what you just read. Like, I've seen PhD's on youtube claim they've only got 25% after first reading and needed to read the books 4 times before they got 70% of what's happening. Regardless, by the end you will understand why people say you need to reread the book if you want to fully understand it. Because at the end you get such a twist that it gives you a completely different lens to see things from. My tip? Do not be shy with google OR better yet, get yourself the Lexicon Urthus and the Chapter guide (both by Micheal Andre Driussi) that said the chapter guide has a lot of things wrong and doesn't seem to know or mention some of the most interesting stuff. (that no one seems to really know but I stumbled on by chance.. like where the mirrors of father Inire are based on in real life). The chapter guide is pretty bad and gives very little added value but is still interesting to read. But the Lexicon Urthus is a godsent for all the terms, made up vocabulary, ancient latin/greek that often has been changed or modified, made up words and words that are no longer in use or come from languages like Turkish, Arabic, Indian etc. It's really nice to have the lexicon Urthus on a PC / phone etc nearby so you can quickly type in a few letters and find the right word. The lexicon was also approved by Gene. Also, you might want to listen to Alzobo soup. It's probably the best BoTNS content out there, the deepest analysis and chapter by chapter guide explaining, expanding and discussing the books. The podcast is completely free and might be nice to listen too while doing chores or something. The book of the new sun is not an easy read. Especially not if you want to understand what you're reading the first time you're reading it. Although it's also not as hard as people make it out to be. You will need to re-read a lot of paragraphs, you need to take the time to look up certain things if you're impatient or don't have the strongest memory for obscure words you've never heard off (lol). Sometimes Gene will use a word and you'll be guessing at its meaning but you will only discover what that word means 2 books later. These books don't hold your hand ever. *If I, as a Turk from the Netherlands can read and understand this book to the degree that I do. I do not doubt a native speaker shoud be capable of the same.* But it does require some dedication. P.s. This is probably one of my favorite books ever. But I do not really agree with the message of the book and how it portrays humanity.
1 like is not enough for this comment. I personally read BOTNS about 9 to 10 times total and I still enjoy it just the same as I did when I first read it all those years ago
I have to dig up my copy of Druisi' books. I know they're somewhere buried deep in my library. Cybeeeee? Fetch me M.A.Druisis' Lexicon Urthus, please. So, you have discovered the location of Father Inire's mirrors here on our Earth, you say? Interesting. I haven't thought them as real objects on Earth. Now I am gonna be obsessed in finding it. Thanks for your wonderful comment. It should help anyone who sort of struggles through the first book. Well done! I had the pleasure of meeting Gene in Balticon, this would be shortly before his wife, Rosemary ,passed away. He was a great talker, and the love of Wolf for his Rose (symbols found in many of his stories) was evident. Wherever Gene was, she was as well. He would be right behind her as she sat smiling in her wheelchair. I will remember my brief time in both their company for the rest of my days. Gene was a damn fine author and a good guy overall.
Prediction is life. Early in the history of mankind, the ability to predict which were the best times to sow and reap by watching the positions of the stars meant that there would be more food and more people later. Being able to predict effect from cause means life in many other areas. So plot is life because it is a way of tickling the human ability to predict whats going to happen next. The good story teller tells enough to make a prediction possible but not enough so that the prediction is 100% guaranteed. A better story teller gives you enough information to predict A and predict B but in a way to makes you expect only A. The gratification is realizing you could have predicted B if you'd paid enough attention. Giving people plot gives them a kind of life, because they experience plot in real life only to limited degree. Shadow of the Torturer seemed more like real life to me, the way things seemed to randomly happen as we go through it. A plotless story is an unusual feeling because most writers try to give us what we want. A plot. To read a Gene Wolfe story is to endure uncomfortable feelings which he adds to by having unreliable narrators. And that's another reason why his stories feel like real life. We are often unreliable narrators of our own stories. Which is why we seek psychotherapists, clergymen, or the better sort of friends.
as many insights as you have, you've just scratched the surface. There's time travel, and upon re-reading the series, you can see some characters know the future because they're time travelers. Gene Wolfe is playing three dimensional chess here. There's not just A and B, there's definitely C! Because how can you predict a world with time travel? Wolfe also give up the first-person "unreliable narrator", that was just his first trick up his sleeve. And he's quite a Biblical scholar, there's tons of references that you won't get unless you have references. Good Luck and keep reading!
In my opinion, book of the new sun and Gene Wolfe in general is the peak of science fiction. The depth in his work is unreal. He writes books *from* the future, not *about* the future. Also, it’s very obviously science fiction.
Gene Wolfe said in an interview himself that the line between scifi and fantasy is very blurred. If things are done by technology or magic is ultimately the same.
Book of the New Sun is really my favorite book of all time. I discovered it about 10 years ago and I must have read it back to back 9 or 10 times since.
Huge respect for Wolfe in this series - it’s insanely mind bending and well crafted. That said, by the end I was so incredibly uncomfortable with and put off by Severian’s self-indulgent and ‘unreliable’ narration that I was glad it was over. It’s one of the most profound works I’ve read - even with the disdain I felt for it by the end. I acknowledge the disdain was one of many possible responses to Severian that Wolfe likely thought possible as he crafted the character - so even my negative response is a testament to the power and effectiveness of Wolff’s writing. Not for the faint of heart - this rabbit hole goes deeeeep.
As to not understanding or “having the key” one of my favorite things about this series of novels is the way more and more of the world and characters “unlock” and recontextualize as you continue. Shadow of the torturer is just the prologue in a lot of ways
Gene Wolfe's novels start to click when you re-read them, and they unfold more as you keep going back to read sections. By the time you finish Book of The New Sun I really believe you will have found some of those keys you seek, and they unlock paths to keys you can use on future re-reads.
Agreed. Gene Wolf is an interesting writer that way. Many of his works are similar to the movie Pulp Fiction in that I didn't 'get' them until I read them a second time. I think he often writes his stories in layers, intentionally creating a puzzle for the reader to solve. They don't generally reward passive reading, but careful, active, engaged reading, and thoughtful re-reading of his tales can be very rewarding indeed.
I think you're understating it.the keys are practically thrown at you, and especially in the first book, it reads differently after finishing the series and going back. It's almost two books in one!
@@dervishcandela6696supposedly, he wrote the entire series 1st (book of the new sun exclusively) then published the 1st volume, and afterwards he worked on each volume after. Little bit dirty of me, and irrelevant to add, but i wish GRRM would've done that same.
This is the third time in a month that the Shadow of the Torturer has been in my feed. Its kind of wild that this series is blowing up all the sudden and people are discovering Gene Wofle. He also had a collection of short stories and novellas which were very enjoyable. _The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories_ was one of my favorite works by Wofle.
I just finished Claw of the Conciliator and I had to reread certain chapters several times… one or two maybe half a dozen times and I was still left with that sense you describe of feeling like you could understand it better… there’s a lot of references to mythology and I found myself researching the etymology for a lot of the chosen vocabulary… plus the man invented Pringle’s… how can you not be a fan
Now, I’ve finished Citadel and am listening to a breakdown of the entire series on a half decade old podcast ‘Alazabo Soup’ before going back to finish Urth of the New Sun and then I’ll probably end up reading the other two related series Long Sun and Short Sun… it’s safe to say I’m a full on Lycocephaly at this point
You are correct that is one fourth of a story. The four volumes constitute the Book of the New Sun. The Urth of the New Sun was published later and serves as a coda but this one concludes the story of Severian, so I recommend all five books.
Luke Skywalker's arc is learning about his heritage, mainly via becoming a Jedi but also discovering the truth about his father, and accepting his origins while not letting that define him. So, self-discovery and self-realization, basically. Nothing especially complex, but the original trilogy is actually very thematically solid considering George Lucas didn't really know where the story was going while making the movies.
I have never read a fantasy series more convoluted and intensely vague to the point of perfection. It kept me up at nights trying to connect these threads. It’s a masterpiece.
LOVE this book so much. The gradual world-building subverts expectations so well and keeps this no-doubt rich and darkly fascinating world always just out of reach, while also captivating and interesting
As a lover of Wolfe and this series I couldn’t hope for a more insightful and intelligent review. I remember reading this and feeling the same way, though I don’t think I could have articulated it this well. A friend once said that the series is like a dream where days later you remember some scene or detail you had forgotten. As for the keys… to paraphrase Toad “[The key] is in another castle.” 😆 (and you’re probably carrying a key and don’t even know it)
Glad the book left an impression. Often with books and media these days we want immediate satisfaction, but with books like these and others reviewed on this channel, there is something to say about letting a book sit with you awhile and explore the way it made you feel.
After reading the first four books, I thought, “What did I just read?”. The books were an enigma and I found myself thinking about them in the days, weeks and months following. Did I like them? I wasn’t certain. Then, somehow a year or so later they had subliminally displaced my favorite books…and I found myself wanting to visit Triskele, Dorcas and Severian once again.
Attempted the audiobook dozens of times on TH-cam. There’s something bout falling asleep to first person narratives that I really struggle with altho every other aspect of the novel is right up my alley. The opening description of the necropolis n its tombs n mausoleum are really great. I just struggle with first person story telling when I’m tryin to fall asleep Think I’m gonna try it one more time tonight n then I think il try n get a paperback n read it myself.
Interesting that you mention the Crystal Cave because it features both the liminal cave as an entry point into a new way of seeing things, and the questing adventure, the call to explore the world beyond Merlin's tiny hamlet. I'm re-reading it right now, I absolutely love this series.
It does have fantasy aspects. It is truly Sci Fi imo. . . I love your reaction. It is really also 1/2 of a two book or five book depending on your interpretation; series. Lexicon Urthus is nice companion reference book.
a companion book is nearly necessary! There's also by the same author, Michael Andre-Driussi, "Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun: A Chapter Guide" Like, I missed tons of Bible references before reading the supplementals.
Shadow of the Torturer is _supposed_ to be thoroughly disorienting on its own. You really have to read all the books to becoming truly oriented, and even then, it's not all immediately apparent. This series is DEEP. Book of the New Sun is a truly great work that requires study to fully ingest and appreciate. Those mysteries for which you desire resolution? They only multiply. It's only after it's all done and you have time to think about it, and maybe read what others have said about it, that answers start to emerge. For instance, the building that the Torturer's Guild occupies (the Matachin Tower)...did you know that it's a defunct space ship? The clues are all these, but the book never _tells_ you that, because Severian doesn't know that. And no, it doesn't eventually become a plot point. It's just a thing that's there, a clue to the hidden layers of the series and the world it creates. Wolfe invents new words in these books which are constructed from the roots of much older words, and this itself mirrors the world he has created, while at the same time disconnecting the reader from their familiar reality. I agree with your friends who consider this to be their favorite work of all time (including the entire cycle). It's one of those things that grows within you through contemplation.
This whole series is a trip. The later book, The Urth of the New Sun, ties things up nicely. It's truly an amazing story, and is primarily sci-fi, especially as you move deeper into it. It's also not really five distinct books, it's one continuous story in four books, with an afterward/conclusion that is itself another book. It's probably the best sci-fi series I've ever read.
i like the way you explain the plot with examples to help us understand "if you like this feature in Dune, youll like this", to help visualize the plot 😊
You’re very right that it is just one part of a larger story, and the “key” to the text, as it were, comes later. Also extremely rewarding on a reread.
I would call this book "Surreal Fantasy" or "Dark Fantasy". Kind of reminds me of playing a Fromsoft game like Dark Souls or Elden Ring haha. I just finished first book and loved it. Truly a masterpiece.
All of Gene Wolfe's book are like fever dreams to me. I'm pretty sure I did read through one while sick and feverish once, and then again later while healthy: same experience.
Of course, I jest, his writing is just so masterful that it often bypasses the concious memory and instead plays itself upon subconscious archetypes like a dream. The Wizard Knight is one of my favorites, in fact, it's been long enough, I think this was a good reminder to dredge it up for a revisit.
As a non-native English speaker, I appreciate very much your videos for the very well paced and clear English. Book-wise, I felt confused almost the entire way, not because the uncommon vocab per say, but also the unusual method he uses to introducr and intercalate situations, sometimes there are just too many weird and yet unknown stuff going on. Nevertheless, I also enjoyed my time even with the struggle. As he himself states in the end, it's not aa easy path, and I agree with the terms to continue. Cheers from Brazil!
I’ve read “Book of the New Sun” twice in the last two years. At first it was a challenging read, but I am so glad that I stuck with it and took my time. One of my all-time favorites!
If you want to read Gene Wolfe's fantasy, read Soldier in the Mist and Soldier of Arete. (Don't bother with the third book.) It's an adventure with an ancient Greek soldier who has no long-term memory and who can see the Greek gods involved in the war. You won't need a dictionary on hand to read it.
you're very right that Shadow of the Torturer is just a quarter of the story, and this has a lot to do with your not "finding the key" of the story. The four books are so densely interwoven with different accounts of the same events, things hinted at in one book are very quietly revealed in another, and the true nature of the setting starts to unfurl. I highly encourage you to read the other 3 books
Because of the thumbnail i thought that this was somehow related to Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree. Just yesterday i arrived at an area that looks very close to the thumbnail. Non the less, ill watch this video because i always love a good and interesting fantasy/sci-fi. :D
Found your channel a couple of days ago, I love your videos. As a teenager I loved science fiction and would spend every single minute I could going through my school’s library which had amazing books. Hopefully I can go back to that and enjoy some good science fiction again. Ever since starting university reading has become more of a torture than a pleasure. Pun intended. I don’t know if you have already but if you haven’t please consider doing a video on choose your adventure type books.
I had met Gene one year at Balticon. There were two other guest speakers, Neil Gaiman and an illustrator, whose name eludes me. They were there to pretty much honor Gene Wolf. Gaiman praised his works and related his own experience reading the BotNS. But it was the illustrator who summed up the Gene Wolf first-time reader the best: "You bastard!" she'd said to loud laughter from the audience. She was talking about a character from the book, mainly, but she was also taking a jab at the old trickster seated to her left. See, you may feel unfulfilled with some of the elements of his stories, particularly BotNS. You will put it down or back on the shelf and go about the business of your life. But there will come a time when you'll be seated in front of the tv, or in your car, or taking yoga lessons or flossing your teeth and a light will flash behind your eyes as a giant granite puzzle piece falls into place in your mind. And you will get it. Not all of it. Not yet. But the fact that a nagging mystery unsolved from that book had somehow, by some literary card trick played by a sneaky s.o.b, a sly wolf, had been solved in your own mind seemingly while you were unaware of your own participation in its solving is almost like getting the whole picture. Its like seeing for the first time the creation as proof enough that the Creator does exist. And you will cry out to the bathroom mirror, hands gripping tensely a length of dental floss like a garotte, "Yeww bwathtard!"
The greatest sci-fi fantasy/fantasy books ever written, to my mind, though I couldn’t make a bit of sense of them when my father gave them to me at 14 😂 (at 40 i’m still figuring new things out hah)
Part of what makes Gene Wolfe so enjoyable for me is the fact that these "riddles" (even simply what is actually happening on the page even though it is seemingly being described straightforwardly) are presented in such a way that conveys they absolutely do have answers even if I can't find one right then. There is such a meaningful, really meaning-FULL, numinous quality to the mysteries that abound in his stories. It compels re-reading, which is when you'll put together a lot of the answers. Also, regarding the blundering nature of the narrative, are you familiar with picaresque? I wasn't until I read Jack Vance's Dying Earth series. Vance had a massive influence on Wolfe, but his books are much more straightforward. Reading Dying Earth gives you a good idea of what kind of story you're reading in Shadow in a way that actually just reading Shadow, funnily enough, does not.
It completely seized my imagination and attention. I have read three of the four books more than once, but must confess that the fourth is the most challenging. It is actually part of a larger work, ss, expect the unexpected. It is my favourite novel, and the others are close behind it in ranking.
It sounds like something akin to a non astartes warhammer 40k book, in that it moves in a world that just is. A non stop abstract meandering of that being life. Never ending and almost pointless up against the world that has been built. Not pointless in a bad way.
I tend to like watching fantasy movies/shows more than reading it. Science fiction will always be my first love of the two book genres. If I read any type of fantasy it's usually Urban Fantasy leaning towards Occult Detectives.
Dude, you are sharp! so nice to hear how you break it down like a piece of art. beautiful. This book changed my life. made qestion from where I narrated myself, also made me believe in something bigger then myself . Enjoy it. it will all come together, and you understand less and more then you think. But it is on the reread the actual journey begins
Read these 3 in the 80s. Found book 4 much later and have not read 5. Nevertheless, it was mind blowing as you begin to piece together the story. The archaic language sent me to the OED several times. It is definitely science fiction/science fantasy like The Dying Earth cycle by Jack Vance or the Hiero book by Sterling Lanier. I need to reread these.
Good overview, and it's a convoluted book in fairness! I would argue that it's science fiction masquerading as fantasy - hopefully this isn't a spoiler (!?!) but I think it's made clear enough that it's set on Earth in the very, very, very far future. Just finished the last one recently, it definitely goes places and has an arc - a mad one, but an arc all the same lol. Cheers for the vid :)
crazy more ppl dont talk about this series and the connected ones. Book of the long sun is also spell binding. Then you've got wizard knight. oh man i might have to read these again.
Thank you for exposing Wolfe to more people. In my opinion (and Ursula K LeGuin's, Neil Gaiman's, and--I believe--Harold Bloom), one of the greatest writers of the last century. But you've got to go deeper. There are entire online communities just dedicated to getting the timeline of these books straight. You have to read from the beginning of Shadow, go on all the way through, read the Coda (and the explanatory books), then go back and read it again, then his short stories in this world, then the other two series set in this timeframe to begin to understand the vast and subtle universe he is building. It can feel daunting, but it's totally worth it. I read them through almost every two years and I'm still finding things. Also, his writing style is deeply influenced by Marquez and Borges, and you would absolutely love them. I understand where the comments below are saying they depart from Wolfe's politics and anthropology. But you have to understand, most sci-fi and fantasy (Inklings excepted) has a pretty deep and unexamined anti-Catholic, modernist bias. To us Catholics who love the genre, Wolfe is a breath of fresh air--his anthropology is grounded on what we recognize as universal and eternal truths. His characters sin and forget. Humanity is full of dignity and perversion. Technology and progress are looked upon with skepticism and hierarchy is a good thing. Symbols (says page 14 of Shadow, and the conversation with the necromancer in Sword of the Lictor if I remember correctly) are REAL, not just invented. We don't invent symbols, "they invent us". That is a magical, sacramental worldview that one cannot find in many modern books and it is chillingly familiar to Catholics and Orthodox. I might even go further and say that this worldview--a deeply medieval worldview, one more ancient than anything invented in the last two centuries--is the very REASON Wolfe is so hard to read for many a modern commentator. It's why he's troubling. To me, it wasn't troubling, but significant and spine-tinglingly real feeling. I still feel it in my bones. It has changed me, grounded me, expanded me. It is worth the struggle. Not just for the plot, or the haunting language, or the vast erudition, but FOR its deep philosophical challege to modernity, FOR its exploration of a way of seeing and experiencing the world that is foreign to secular sensibilities. The Claw, man. The Claw is the key.
Great job man , I’m subscribing and looking forward to more. I’m glad I’ve found a couple of real guys doing fantasy reviews. And what I mean by that is the more famous ones who end up just doing top ten lists and recounting one piece episodes.
@10:00 Thats kinda how i felt about some of the elrich of malnibonae books. i loved them and i get it its a difficult thing to make up a world and its moving parts. but that did make it hard for me to get through parts.
I can't wait to see what you think of the rest of the series in the future. I took breaks in between each book because they were a lot to take in, since you really can't read them casually; whenever I found myself not paying enough attention, I would just go back and re-read the last few pages. I'm looking forward to checking out more of your channel! - Billy
Read the whole series while on a long run of night shifts. It truly is a unique series. As a lover of fantasy who is somewhat indifferent to sci fi, I really did enjoy this series. The world felt somewhat empty and grey, if that makes any sense. Even when severian is with people the story still feels lonely. This was compounded by my lonely night shifts. This book series was recommended to me when looking for a "Dark Souls like" story and this definitely felt like dark souls. The story feels obscure at times and the world feels intense and hostile. Upon completion of the last book I wasn't sure how to feel and had many questions.
Huh i just looked over to my right and I've got this book and two other Gene Wolfe books on my book shelf. I've had them for at least 10 years and haven't yet read them. Don't even know where they came from. Edit; I just realised that the other two books are the rest of the trilogy. Perhaps I'll read them.
I'm glad you read this book and talked about it on the channel. But it reall is volume 1 of the Book of the New Sun. The other three are not sequels; the whole thing should be considered as a single book, just as the name says. So you'r right -- Shadow just ends in mediae res and basically uncovers nothing -- would have made sense to publish this as a single large edition and for all i know there might be one out there (I know it's usually broken up into two volumes nowadays). It's been a long time since i read this and I did find it fascinating. Definitely something to revisit someday, maybe soon. I never read the other related books either, Earth of the New Sun, Long Sun, Short Sun, etc. I never considered Wolfe an absolute favourite for some reason, though I do so far find his stuff compelling. Something about me and him together don't always connect. maybe it's worldview but I don't know, i dont' have this feeling of detachment with, for instance, R.A. lafferty. Still really great though; a standout writer in the field.
Nice review ^.^ This is absolutely the first quarter of a single novel. I don't think you could isolate Shadow and do much with it. I love it. But it is indeed all over the place. :) Well, the rest of the BOTNS isn't changing in that aspect, but... not sure how to put it.. For one, the story opens up, the scale widens, some pieces connect, or give clues of some connections.. Another thing, I think, you discover ways of enjoying the work. Ways apart from those you are used to. Another.. in time, it further sinks in that, this is not a realistic narrative at all.. It is closer to mythical.. Often without closure in the conventional sense (for me at least). +I think the nested stories (and plays!) are, in some ways, keys to obtaining parts of the frame narrative. I'm not smart enough to decode them, but I love reading and listening to people, who are attempting it. Cheers. ^.^
@@Vingul there's no magic, it's not fantasy. There are remnants of old high tech nobody understands anymore (technological and biological) and the humans and animals eveolved to different shapes during that billion years. The same goes for climate, lenght of the day etc. It takes place in today's chile...
- This is a series of novels utimately called the Solar Cycle. The first "part" is a four-book series called The Book of the New Sun (which Shadow of the Torturer is the first of) followed by Book of the Long Sun and Book of the Short Sun.
- That is to say, there is a through-line. There is a reason for this story to feel like Severian is stumbling into things. It's the kind of story that has you think "oh, shit" every once in a while and it only starts to click the second time around for many people.
- The author's notes are important. GW treated this as though he discovered and needed to translate a journal from the far, far, far future. Believe it or not every term he uses has been used in the English language before (although you may not find them in a dictionary) and the idea is that Wolfe needs to re-purpose them for things we have no word for. Quite often Severian is describing something we're very familiar with, that he doesn't understand himself, in an alien context.
- Some major themes / influences on Wolfe: He was Catholic, and this series is on some level him exploring his own ideas about how much of his faith was "real". He was fascinated by time and memory. Both factor heavily into BotNS. He was also feakishly well-read, and these novels are full of obscure literary references (the librarian Ultan was based off of some other author he knew.)
- Severian's philosophy often falls flat because he's trying desperately to justify his more questionable actions (and failing). He's trying to style himself as a philosopher-king but doesn't really hit the mark.
Thanks you so much for this incredible comment!
I see you know everything about the Book of the New Sun (and that's great, because it's also my favorite book)... but I bet you don't know that there exist a separate story that tells the adventures of Eata, one of the apprentice children of the Torturers' guild (but in adulthood) and also two stories from the Brown Book of Thecla that are not told in any of pentalogy's books, but which, however, are published in one of Gene Wolfe's collections of short stories and tales.
@@smaugthegolden33 I knew that something from the Brown Book was in a short story collection, didn't know there was anything about Eata in there. Neat.
@@colbyboucher6391
These stories appear in two different collections. Eata's is titled "the Map" and is the story of a boat trip across the Gyoll in search of a treasure (if I remember correctly); you can find it in "Endangered Species", along with the strange story "The Cat", narrated by Father Inire himself. And the Brown Book stories can be found in "Starwater Strains" (the book with the dog on the cover) and are titled "Empires of Foliage and Flower" and "The boy who hooked the Sun". All the best
It is a sci-fi book. The genre is called “Dying Earth”, named after one of Jack Vance’s short stories set hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of years in our future. Interestingly, the original Dungeons and Dragons was also influenced by the Dying Earth (spells are memorized, then lost when cast, Ioun stones, etc.)
It can be both sci fi and fantasy. Book of the New Sun definitely leans more on the fantasy elements than the sci fi elements, as does Vance's Dying Earth
The Night Land, The House on the Borderland (W H Hodgson) and Zothique (Clark Ashton) talk about the situation of humans in the distant future. Are these works precursors to the genre you're talking about? I don't know the author, which of his works would you recommend to get started?
@@trollero3 The best place to start is with the original. “The Dying Earth”, which is a short story collection.
@@SonofSethoitae I would argue that it is Science Fiction, in the category of what Arthur C. Clarke said was (paraphrased) “any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic.” But I see your point and acknowledge that you are no less correct than I am.
It’s just sci-fantasy, it has elements of both
Shadow of the Erdtree will be a torturous trip as well ❤
Lmao. True
I maintain that Elemer (in image) is inspired by Shadow of the Torturer. You find him in a "shaded castle", across a polluted river, admiring a painting. And he wields an executioner sword.
@@OrlandoOrtiz570it’s exactly the kinda thing Miyazaki would read
I just spent 17 minutes starring at another dudes hair and beard.
This guy is for sure a wizard.
Chris the White
I thought it was Napoleon Dynamite all grown up.
I discovered Gene Wolfe a couple of years ago and this entire series is incredible. Then I read The Knight and The Wizard and was even more blown away.
Long Sun and Short Sun are also incredible series. Gene Wolfe is the goat of sci fi
Me too, then i reread BOFTS and wow...!!! I get know why some people say reading Wolfe starts on the reread. Just amazing
The BoTNS is not fantasy. It is in fact, sci fi. But, it does read like a weird, dreamy, 80's fantasy. If you paid attention you might have noticed that the headquarters of the guild of the torturers.. is a rocket/space ship. You have to understand, for Severian his world is completely normal. So he doesn't really explain what things are. You have to puzzle it out. This book is being written by Severian.. from the future recounting his own story. And he gives a lot of things away very early on. *This also means, you have got a somewhat unreliable narrator. Severian will keep telling you that he has a photographic memory, that he can't forget stuff. But he will regularly get details wrong.* The BoTNS is full of electrical appliances, robots, ultra advanced technology etc. Including for example the mirrors of father Inire, which is a teleportation device for time and space. But these are all set in a very poor, feudal world. Where people live like medieval serfs and the world is completely disconnected from each other because fast methods of travel are only for the aristocracy etc. and it's literally illegal to use the highways that are still there from previous eras. The reasons for this are explained much later. The botanical garden they go too to get the Avern. That building is literally a building where the rooms are all connected to different places in time and space. E.g. Severian meets two people in the Jungle. Notice how they had very regular English names? The lady is quoting obscure parts of the bible. And there is a very old guy with them talking weird stuff. The Chapter Guide (same guy that wrote the Lexicon Urthus that was greenlit by Gene Wolfe) claims those are based on two characters from some novel. The guy that's with them has a name that means medicine man in Zulu.. When you google both English name + Zulu, you will quickly stumble upon a pair of famous Catholic missionaries who worked with the Zulu's. (Gene was a staunch Catholic). This is also why, when Severian looks out of the window, he sees (describes) a 20th century propellor plane fly over him. The rooms seem to be constantly changing and when you enter them you never seem to enter the exact same place except maybe for the place with the Avern and the funeral lake.
The thing with the BoTNS is that you really cannot just read one of the books. You need to read all 4. If you are naturally perceptive and a bit obsessive. If you pay a lot of attention and read it like you're studying the book. You will probably end up getting 80/90% of the book(s) on your first try. If you just read through it with leisure, you will probably max understand 30% of what you just read. Like, I've seen PhD's on youtube claim they've only got 25% after first reading and needed to read the books 4 times before they got 70% of what's happening. Regardless, by the end you will understand why people say you need to reread the book if you want to fully understand it. Because at the end you get such a twist that it gives you a completely different lens to see things from.
My tip? Do not be shy with google OR better yet, get yourself the Lexicon Urthus and the Chapter guide (both by Micheal Andre Driussi) that said the chapter guide has a lot of things wrong and doesn't seem to know or mention some of the most interesting stuff. (that no one seems to really know but I stumbled on by chance.. like where the mirrors of father Inire are based on in real life). The chapter guide is pretty bad and gives very little added value but is still interesting to read. But the Lexicon Urthus is a godsent for all the terms, made up vocabulary, ancient latin/greek that often has been changed or modified, made up words and words that are no longer in use or come from languages like Turkish, Arabic, Indian etc. It's really nice to have the lexicon Urthus on a PC / phone etc nearby so you can quickly type in a few letters and find the right word. The lexicon was also approved by Gene. Also, you might want to listen to Alzobo soup. It's probably the best BoTNS content out there, the deepest analysis and chapter by chapter guide explaining, expanding and discussing the books. The podcast is completely free and might be nice to listen too while doing chores or something.
The book of the new sun is not an easy read. Especially not if you want to understand what you're reading the first time you're reading it. Although it's also not as hard as people make it out to be. You will need to re-read a lot of paragraphs, you need to take the time to look up certain things if you're impatient or don't have the strongest memory for obscure words you've never heard off (lol). Sometimes Gene will use a word and you'll be guessing at its meaning but you will only discover what that word means 2 books later. These books don't hold your hand ever. *If I, as a Turk from the Netherlands can read and understand this book to the degree that I do. I do not doubt a native speaker shoud be capable of the same.* But it does require some dedication.
P.s. This is probably one of my favorite books ever. But I do not really agree with the message of the book and how it portrays humanity.
I just found a copy of the second book, so I plan to keep going! Thank you so much for taking the time to watch, and for your wonderful comment!
1 like is not enough for this comment. I personally read BOTNS about 9 to 10 times total and I still enjoy it just the same as I did when I first read it all those years ago
I have to dig up my copy of Druisi' books. I know they're somewhere buried deep in my library. Cybeeeee? Fetch me M.A.Druisis' Lexicon Urthus, please.
So, you have discovered the location of Father Inire's mirrors here on our Earth, you say?
Interesting. I haven't thought them as real objects on Earth. Now I am gonna be obsessed in finding it.
Thanks for your wonderful comment. It should help anyone who sort of struggles through the first book. Well done!
I had the pleasure of meeting Gene in Balticon, this would be shortly before his wife, Rosemary ,passed away. He was a great talker, and the love of Wolf for his Rose (symbols found in many of his stories) was evident. Wherever Gene was, she was as well. He would be right behind her as she sat smiling in her wheelchair. I will remember my brief time in both their company for the rest of my days.
Gene was a damn fine author and a good guy overall.
It’s dying earth fantasy
Prediction is life. Early in the history of mankind, the ability to predict which were the best times to sow and reap by watching the positions of the stars meant that there would be more food and more people later. Being able to predict effect from cause means life in many other areas. So plot is life because it is a way of tickling the human ability to predict whats going to happen next.
The good story teller tells enough to make a prediction possible but not enough so that the prediction is 100% guaranteed. A better story teller gives you enough information to predict A and predict B but in a way to makes you expect only A. The gratification is realizing you could have predicted B if you'd paid enough attention. Giving people plot gives them a kind of life, because they experience plot in real life only to limited degree.
Shadow of the Torturer seemed more like real life to me, the way things seemed to randomly happen as we go through it. A plotless story is an unusual feeling because most writers try to give us what we want. A plot. To read a Gene Wolfe story is to endure uncomfortable feelings which he adds to by having unreliable narrators.
And that's another reason why his stories feel like real life. We are often unreliable narrators of our own stories. Which is why we seek psychotherapists, clergymen, or the better sort of friends.
Beautiful essay. Thanks for sharing
@@lanwyacaere9274 Thank you. I did write an essay. Bad habit in TL/DR land. I just added paragraphs for easier reading.
as many insights as you have, you've just scratched the surface. There's time travel, and upon re-reading the series, you can see some characters know the future because they're time travelers. Gene Wolfe is playing three dimensional chess here. There's not just A and B, there's definitely C! Because how can you predict a world with time travel? Wolfe also give up the first-person "unreliable narrator", that was just his first trick up his sleeve. And he's quite a Biblical scholar, there's tons of references that you won't get unless you have references. Good Luck and keep reading!
@@squirlmy Now that inspires me to try again. Didn't realize the time travel angle. That would throw off plot and prediction alright. Thanks.
Great series. I read the first book when I was 16 years old, and was blown away. I’m now 39 years older and still like the series a lot. Thanks
In my opinion, book of the new sun and Gene Wolfe in general is the peak of science fiction. The depth in his work is unreal.
He writes books *from* the future, not *about* the future.
Also, it’s very obviously science fiction.
Gene Wolfe said in an interview himself that the line between scifi and fantasy is very blurred.
If things are done by technology or magic is ultimately the same.
Book of the New Sun is really my favorite book of all time. I discovered it about 10 years ago and I must have read it back to back 9 or 10 times since.
Huge respect for Wolfe in this series - it’s insanely mind bending and well crafted. That said, by the end I was so incredibly uncomfortable with and put off by Severian’s self-indulgent and ‘unreliable’ narration that I was glad it was over. It’s one of the most profound works I’ve read - even with the disdain I felt for it by the end. I acknowledge the disdain was one of many possible responses to Severian that Wolfe likely thought possible as he crafted the character - so even my negative response is a testament to the power and effectiveness of Wolff’s writing. Not for the faint of heart - this rabbit hole goes deeeeep.
As to not understanding or “having the key” one of my favorite things about this series of novels is the way more and more of the world and characters “unlock” and recontextualize as you continue. Shadow of the torturer is just the prologue in a lot of ways
Gene Wolfe's novels start to click when you re-read them, and they unfold more as you keep going back to read sections. By the time you finish Book of The New Sun I really believe you will have found some of those keys you seek, and they unlock paths to keys you can use on future re-reads.
Agreed. Gene Wolf is an interesting writer that way. Many of his works are similar to the movie Pulp Fiction in that I didn't 'get' them until I read them a second time. I think he often writes his stories in layers, intentionally creating a puzzle for the reader to solve. They don't generally reward passive reading, but careful, active, engaged reading, and thoughtful re-reading of his tales can be very rewarding indeed.
I think you're understating it.the keys are practically thrown at you, and especially in the first book, it reads differently after finishing the series and going back. It's almost two books in one!
arguably if something "requires multiple readings", it really should've taken multiple writings and a good editor
@@dervishcandela6696 ... yeah for sure man
@@dervishcandela6696supposedly, he wrote the entire series 1st (book of the new sun exclusively) then published the 1st volume, and afterwards he worked on each volume after. Little bit dirty of me, and irrelevant to add, but i wish GRRM would've done that same.
This is the third time in a month that the Shadow of the Torturer has been in my feed. Its kind of wild that this series is blowing up all the sudden and people are discovering Gene Wofle. He also had a collection of short stories and novellas which were very enjoyable. _The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories_ was one of my favorite works by Wofle.
That's the algorithm. You watch something about X and get recommended X.
The whole Book of the New Sun series is one of my alltime favorites.
I just finished Claw of the Conciliator and I had to reread certain chapters several times… one or two maybe half a dozen times and I was still left with that sense you describe of feeling like you could understand it better… there’s a lot of references to mythology and I found myself researching the etymology for a lot of the chosen vocabulary… plus the man invented Pringle’s… how can you not be a fan
Definitely needs a good dictionary, maybe a thesaurus. He also knows the Bible inside out. I can't say enough about how smart he was!
Just finished Shadow last week, and I am currently starting Claw. I had to reread Shadow in areas, too. I feel that.
Now, I’ve finished Citadel and am listening to a breakdown of the entire series on a half decade old podcast ‘Alazabo Soup’ before going back to finish Urth of the New Sun and then I’ll probably end up reading the other two related series Long Sun and Short Sun… it’s safe to say I’m a full on Lycocephaly at this point
Gene Wolfe is my favorite author. I am still haunted by the Fifth of Cerberus.
You are correct that is one fourth of a story. The four volumes constitute the Book of the New Sun. The Urth of the New Sun was published later and serves as a coda but this one concludes the story of Severian, so I recommend all five books.
The Revolutionary was such a haunting concept. I've forgotten much of the rest of the book, but that sticks with me.
Luke Skywalker's arc is learning about his heritage, mainly via becoming a Jedi but also discovering the truth about his father, and accepting his origins while not letting that define him. So, self-discovery and self-realization, basically. Nothing especially complex, but the original trilogy is actually very thematically solid considering George Lucas didn't really know where the story was going while making the movies.
I have never read a fantasy series more convoluted and intensely vague to the point of perfection. It kept me up at nights trying to connect these threads. It’s a masterpiece.
Agreed!
LOVE this book so much. The gradual world-building subverts expectations so well and keeps this no-doubt rich and darkly fascinating world always just out of reach, while also captivating and interesting
I happen to be reading this right now, I'm really loving it
Everyone should (try to) read this. Mindblowing.
As a lover of Wolfe and this series I couldn’t hope for a more insightful and intelligent review. I remember reading this and feeling the same way, though I don’t think I could have articulated it this well.
A friend once said that the series is like a dream where days later you remember some scene or detail you had forgotten.
As for the keys… to paraphrase Toad “[The key] is in another castle.” 😆
(and you’re probably carrying a key and don’t even know it)
When I'm done with the series we should do a video discussion about it!
That sounds awesome 😁
Here again the TH-cam algorithm takes me to another dimension
Glad the book left an impression. Often with books and media these days we want immediate satisfaction, but with books like these and others reviewed on this channel, there is something to say about letting a book sit with you awhile and explore the way it made you feel.
I look forward to seeing you work your way through this series.
After reading the first four books, I thought, “What did I just read?”. The books were an enigma and I found myself thinking about them in the days, weeks and months following. Did I like them? I wasn’t certain. Then, somehow a year or so later they had subliminally displaced my favorite books…and I found myself wanting to visit Triskele, Dorcas and Severian once again.
I’ve read the first book once and had the same reaction. I need to revisit it.
Attempted the audiobook dozens of times on TH-cam. There’s something bout falling asleep to first person narratives that I really struggle with altho every other aspect of the novel is right up my alley. The opening description of the necropolis n its tombs n mausoleum are really great. I just struggle with first person story telling when I’m tryin to fall asleep
Think I’m gonna try it one more time tonight n then I think il try n get a paperback n read it myself.
Interesting that you mention the Crystal Cave because it features both the liminal cave as an entry point into a new way of seeing things, and the questing adventure, the call to explore the world beyond Merlin's tiny hamlet. I'm re-reading it right now, I absolutely love this series.
Ooooh good point! I really love those books. My favorite fantasy series of all time!
@@LiminalSpaces03 Its great. I love that she incorporated Mithrism throughout as the ancient magic. They feel so grounded in history!
Really enjoyed your review. I'm excited to hear your thoughts on the rest of the series in the future, and to see more Wolfe discussion in general.
I’ve just read the 5th book … the resolution you crave never occurs !! It’s left to the reader. One is offered various possibilities.
This is as close to Shakespeare as sci-fi gets. Lyrical beauty, poetry in prose form. I reread it every few years and just recently finished it ...
The Book of the New Sun is a treasure, just as Severian finds depths to previous events in is progression so does the reader.
Oh man a book shelf with what looks like a complete set of DAW paperbacks with a pile of ACE doubles on top. Bravo to you my man.
Thanks so much, been collecting for awhile!
Oh, another childhood favorite of mine! It's hilarious how much inapropriate literature I just picked as a kid from thrift stores.
Me too!
Stop doing these! It's costing me a fortune having to buy even more books by authors I'd never heard of.
@@SpaceForest8 many thanks for doing this !!!
If you look around a little, you can find two-book compendiums of this series. Modern editions, different covers. Not rare, cheaper
Gene is one of the best.
Read the rest of the series.
It is SF. It takes place in the very far future.
It does have fantasy aspects. It is truly Sci Fi imo. . . I love your reaction. It is really also 1/2 of a two book or five book depending on your interpretation; series. Lexicon Urthus is nice companion reference book.
a companion book is nearly necessary! There's also by the same author, Michael Andre-Driussi, "Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun: A Chapter Guide" Like, I missed tons of Bible references before reading the supplementals.
@@squirlmy but if you didn't miss them the first time you wouldn't have had the joy of picking them up the second time with the reference 👊🏽💥
Shadow of the Torturer is _supposed_ to be thoroughly disorienting on its own. You really have to read all the books to becoming truly oriented, and even then, it's not all immediately apparent. This series is DEEP. Book of the New Sun is a truly great work that requires study to fully ingest and appreciate. Those mysteries for which you desire resolution? They only multiply. It's only after it's all done and you have time to think about it, and maybe read what others have said about it, that answers start to emerge.
For instance, the building that the Torturer's Guild occupies (the Matachin Tower)...did you know that it's a defunct space ship? The clues are all these, but the book never _tells_ you that, because Severian doesn't know that. And no, it doesn't eventually become a plot point. It's just a thing that's there, a clue to the hidden layers of the series and the world it creates. Wolfe invents new words in these books which are constructed from the roots of much older words, and this itself mirrors the world he has created, while at the same time disconnecting the reader from their familiar reality.
I agree with your friends who consider this to be their favorite work of all time (including the entire cycle). It's one of those things that grows within you through contemplation.
This whole series is a trip. The later book, The Urth of the New Sun, ties things up nicely. It's truly an amazing story, and is primarily sci-fi, especially as you move deeper into it. It's also not really five distinct books, it's one continuous story in four books, with an afterward/conclusion that is itself another book. It's probably the best sci-fi series I've ever read.
i like the way you explain the plot with examples to help us understand "if you like this feature in Dune, youll like this", to help visualize the plot 😊
Thanks for the kind words!
One of my top favorite series! Genius
Fantasy and sci-fi combined is called Science Fantasy, originally the two genres were considered indistinct.
You’re very right that it is just one part of a larger story, and the “key” to the text, as it were, comes later. Also extremely rewarding on a reread.
I would call this book "Surreal Fantasy" or "Dark Fantasy". Kind of reminds me of playing a Fromsoft game like Dark Souls or Elden Ring haha. I just finished first book and loved it. Truly a masterpiece.
Read this in the late 70s. I used to joke that I have forgotten more good Fantasy Scifi than most people ever read
This series of books is insane! So well written!
All of Gene Wolfe's book are like fever dreams to me. I'm pretty sure I did read through one while sick and feverish once, and then again later while healthy: same experience.
Of course, I jest, his writing is just so masterful that it often bypasses the concious memory and instead plays itself upon subconscious archetypes like a dream. The Wizard Knight is one of my favorites, in fact, it's been long enough, I think this was a good reminder to dredge it up for a revisit.
The whole series is great, read it when it first came out...
As a non-native English speaker, I appreciate very much your videos for the very well paced and clear English. Book-wise, I felt confused almost the entire way, not because the uncommon vocab per say, but also the unusual method he uses to introducr and intercalate situations, sometimes there are just too many weird and yet unknown stuff going on. Nevertheless, I also enjoyed my time even with the struggle. As he himself states in the end, it's not aa easy path, and I agree with the terms to continue. Cheers from Brazil!
I can't imagine trying to take on this book in a second language! You're awesome!
I’ve read “Book of the New Sun” twice in the last two years. At first it was a challenging read, but I am so glad that I stuck with it and took my time. One of my all-time favorites!
If you want to read Gene Wolfe's fantasy, read Soldier in the Mist and Soldier of Arete. (Don't bother with the third book.) It's an adventure with an ancient Greek soldier who has no long-term memory and who can see the Greek gods involved in the war. You won't need a dictionary on hand to read it.
BoTNS is greatest piece of genre fiction ever written imo.
Media Death Cult is obsessed with this series. Worth a view as well
Who is that?
@@SearchIndex a sci-fi book youtuber. Funny Brit, look him up
@@SearchIndexBritish booktuber
@@disconnected22 He sounds awesome, I'll check him out
@@MediaDeathCult hey, Moid. I told them you were obsessed...
you're very right that Shadow of the Torturer is just a quarter of the story, and this has a lot to do with your not "finding the key" of the story.
The four books are so densely interwoven with different accounts of the same events, things hinted at in one book are very quietly revealed in another, and the true nature of the setting starts to unfurl. I highly encourage you to read the other 3 books
read the book of the new sun series during the pandemic and it changed my life. I highly recommend everyone reads this series.
Because of the thumbnail i thought that this was somehow related to Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree. Just yesterday i arrived at an area that looks very close to the thumbnail.
Non the less, ill watch this video because i always love a good and interesting fantasy/sci-fi. :D
Love the t-shirt! Didn’t even know that that kind of phobia has a word for it. 😅
The key is in the fourth book (and the second).
Found your channel a couple of days ago, I love your videos. As a teenager I loved science fiction and would spend every single minute I could going through my school’s library which had amazing books. Hopefully I can go back to that and enjoy some good science fiction again. Ever since starting university reading has become more of a torture than a pleasure. Pun intended. I don’t know if you have already but if you haven’t please consider doing a video on choose your adventure type books.
All I had time to read when I was getting my degrees was what the teachers assigned! Sure kept me busy!
Wife: did you torture anyone?
Husband: yes but they were all bad.
its now on my TBR // thank you for the review!
I had met Gene one year at Balticon. There were two other guest speakers, Neil Gaiman and an illustrator, whose name eludes me. They were there to pretty much honor Gene Wolf. Gaiman praised his works and related his own experience reading the BotNS. But it was the illustrator who summed up the Gene Wolf first-time reader the best: "You bastard!" she'd said to loud laughter from the audience. She was talking about a character from the book, mainly, but she was also taking a jab at the old trickster seated to her left.
See, you may feel unfulfilled with some of the elements of his stories, particularly BotNS. You will put it down or back on the shelf and go about the business of your life. But there will come a time when you'll be seated in front of the tv, or in your car, or taking yoga lessons or flossing your teeth and a light will flash behind your eyes as a giant granite puzzle piece falls into place in your mind. And you will get it. Not all of it. Not yet. But the fact that a nagging mystery unsolved from that book had somehow, by some literary card trick played by a sneaky s.o.b, a sly wolf, had been solved in your own mind seemingly while you were unaware of your own participation in its solving is almost like getting the whole picture. Its like seeing for the first time the creation as proof enough that the Creator does exist.
And you will cry out to the bathroom mirror, hands gripping tensely a length of dental floss like a garotte, "Yeww bwathtard!"
This is an outstanding comment! Thanks so much!
What timing!! Just finished Book of the New Sun and omg, what a trip... Can't wait to read Urth, then re-read it all again later lol
The greatest sci-fi fantasy/fantasy books ever written, to my
mind, though I couldn’t make a bit of sense of them when my father gave them to me at 14 😂 (at 40 i’m still figuring new things out hah)
Oh man, the carnifex book. This one is a great one.
I saw the paperback edition, of the first one you showed, at a local bookstore and it was $30.
That edition you got appears to be very rare
I had these somewhere ,in hardcover,unread,kept them cause I was intrigued by title and art.
Part of what makes Gene Wolfe so enjoyable for me is the fact that these "riddles" (even simply what is actually happening on the page even though it is seemingly being described straightforwardly) are presented in such a way that conveys they absolutely do have answers even if I can't find one right then. There is such a meaningful, really meaning-FULL, numinous quality to the mysteries that abound in his stories. It compels re-reading, which is when you'll put together a lot of the answers.
Also, regarding the blundering nature of the narrative, are you familiar with picaresque? I wasn't until I read Jack Vance's Dying Earth series. Vance had a massive influence on Wolfe, but his books are much more straightforward. Reading Dying Earth gives you a good idea of what kind of story you're reading in Shadow in a way that actually just reading Shadow, funnily enough, does not.
Very well said! I'm starting to get into the flow of this series, now that I've completed Claw!
I glanced at your shirt and (mistakenly) read abibliophobia: the fear of turning in library books late. 😬
It completely seized my imagination and attention. I have read three of the four books more than once, but must confess that the fourth is the most challenging. It is actually part of a larger work, ss, expect the unexpected. It is my favourite novel, and the others are close behind it in ranking.
Oh man these are my favorite books
Yeah this is very much in the vein of a Jack Vance dystopia novel.
It sounds like something akin to a non astartes warhammer 40k book, in that it moves in a world that just is. A non stop abstract meandering of that being life. Never ending and almost pointless up against the world that has been built. Not pointless in a bad way.
I tend to like watching fantasy movies/shows more than reading it. Science fiction will always be my first love of the two book genres. If I read any type of fantasy it's usually Urban Fantasy leaning towards Occult Detectives.
Dude, you are sharp! so nice to hear how you break it down like a piece of art. beautiful. This book changed my life. made qestion from where I narrated myself, also made me believe in something bigger then myself . Enjoy it. it will all come together, and you understand less and more then you think.
But it is on the reread the actual journey begins
Thank you so much for your kind words! I've got my copy of the second book and I'm looking forward to diving in!
Read these 3 in the 80s. Found book 4 much later and have not read 5. Nevertheless, it was mind blowing as you begin to piece together the story. The archaic language sent me to the OED several times. It is definitely science fiction/science fantasy like The Dying Earth cycle by Jack Vance or the Hiero book by Sterling Lanier. I need to reread these.
Good overview, and it's a convoluted book in fairness! I would argue that it's science fiction masquerading as fantasy - hopefully this isn't a spoiler (!?!) but I think it's made clear enough that it's set on Earth in the very, very, very far future. Just finished the last one recently, it definitely goes places and has an arc - a mad one, but an arc all the same lol. Cheers for the vid :)
It is an excellent example of Clark's 3rd law. I loved the ambiguity.
Read the rest. It's God tier. Wolfe is a genius.
crazy more ppl dont talk about this series and the connected ones. Book of the long sun is also spell binding. Then you've got wizard knight. oh man i might have to read these again.
There's an audiobook of it on TH-cam btw
So many books, so little time.
Thank you for exposing Wolfe to more people. In my opinion (and Ursula K LeGuin's, Neil Gaiman's, and--I believe--Harold Bloom), one of the greatest writers of the last century.
But you've got to go deeper. There are entire online communities just dedicated to getting the timeline of these books straight. You have to read from the beginning of Shadow, go on all the way through, read the Coda (and the explanatory books), then go back and read it again, then his short stories in this world, then the other two series set in this timeframe to begin to understand the vast and subtle universe he is building. It can feel daunting, but it's totally worth it. I read them through almost every two years and I'm still finding things. Also, his writing style is deeply influenced by Marquez and Borges, and you would absolutely love them.
I understand where the comments below are saying they depart from Wolfe's politics and anthropology. But you have to understand, most sci-fi and fantasy (Inklings excepted) has a pretty deep and unexamined anti-Catholic, modernist bias. To us Catholics who love the genre, Wolfe is a breath of fresh air--his anthropology is grounded on what we recognize as universal and eternal truths. His characters sin and forget. Humanity is full of dignity and perversion. Technology and progress are looked upon with skepticism and hierarchy is a good thing. Symbols (says page 14 of Shadow, and the conversation with the necromancer in Sword of the Lictor if I remember correctly) are REAL, not just invented. We don't invent symbols, "they invent us". That is a magical, sacramental worldview that one cannot find in many modern books and it is chillingly familiar to Catholics and Orthodox. I might even go further and say that this worldview--a deeply medieval worldview, one more ancient than anything invented in the last two centuries--is the very REASON Wolfe is so hard to read for many a modern commentator. It's why he's troubling.
To me, it wasn't troubling, but significant and spine-tinglingly real feeling. I still feel it in my bones. It has changed me, grounded me, expanded me. It is worth the struggle. Not just for the plot, or the haunting language, or the vast erudition, but FOR its deep philosophical challege to modernity, FOR its exploration of a way of seeing and experiencing the world that is foreign to secular sensibilities.
The Claw, man. The Claw is the key.
Wonderful comment! I'm really looking forward to the rest of this series. I'll be starting the Claw next week!
Great job man , I’m subscribing and looking forward to more. I’m glad I’ve found a couple of real guys doing fantasy reviews. And what I mean by that is the more famous ones who end up just doing top ten lists and recounting one piece episodes.
Thank you so much and welcome aboard!
@10:00 Thats kinda how i felt about some of the elrich of malnibonae books. i loved them and i get it its a difficult thing to make up a world and its moving parts. but that did make it hard for me to get through parts.
I can't wait to see what you think of the rest of the series in the future. I took breaks in between each book because they were a lot to take in, since you really can't read them casually; whenever I found myself not paying enough attention, I would just go back and re-read the last few pages. I'm looking forward to checking out more of your channel! - Billy
Thanks so much! Just started Claw!
Read the whole series while on a long run of night shifts. It truly is a unique series. As a lover of fantasy who is somewhat indifferent to sci fi, I really did enjoy this series. The world felt somewhat empty and grey, if that makes any sense. Even when severian is with people the story still feels lonely. This was compounded by my lonely night shifts.
This book series was recommended to me when looking for a "Dark Souls like" story and this definitely felt like dark souls. The story feels obscure at times and the world feels intense and hostile. Upon completion of the last book I wasn't sure how to feel and had many questions.
I'm looking forward to making it to the end of the series!
Huh i just looked over to my right and I've got this book and two other Gene Wolfe books on my book shelf. I've had them for at least 10 years and haven't yet read them. Don't even know where they came from.
Edit; I just realised that the other two books are the rest of the trilogy. Perhaps I'll read them.
Love your shirt bro; A bible of phobia 😂
Burn calories reading this thing though. I know its nothing like this but while reading it i feel kind of like im reading Ulysses.
I'm glad you read this book and talked about it on the channel. But it reall is volume 1 of the Book of the New Sun. The other three are not sequels; the whole thing should be considered as a single book, just as the name says. So you'r right -- Shadow just ends in mediae res and basically uncovers nothing -- would have made sense to publish this as a single large edition and for all i know there might be one out there (I know it's usually broken up into two volumes nowadays).
It's been a long time since i read this and I did find it fascinating. Definitely something to revisit someday, maybe soon. I never read the other related books either, Earth of the New Sun, Long Sun, Short Sun, etc. I never considered Wolfe an absolute favourite for some reason, though I do so far find his stuff compelling. Something about me and him together don't always connect. maybe it's worldview but I don't know, i dont' have this feeling of detachment with, for instance, R.A. lafferty.
Still really great though; a standout writer in the field.
I'm going to keep reading, so I can talk about the entire story!
Gene wolfe has some beautiful prose
So true!
simotaneaously
Nice review ^.^
This is absolutely the first quarter of a single novel. I don't think you could isolate Shadow and do much with it. I love it. But it is indeed all over the place. :) Well, the rest of the BOTNS isn't changing in that aspect, but... not sure how to put it.. For one, the story opens up, the scale widens, some pieces connect, or give clues of some connections.. Another thing, I think, you discover ways of enjoying the work. Ways apart from those you are used to. Another.. in time, it further sinks in that, this is not a realistic narrative at all.. It is closer to mythical.. Often without closure in the conventional sense (for me at least).
+I think the nested stories (and plays!) are, in some ways, keys to obtaining parts of the frame narrative. I'm not smart enough to decode them, but I love reading and listening to people, who are attempting it.
Cheers. ^.^
Worth keeping in mind Wolfe's very devout Catholicism as you read too.
it's not fantasy. it's billion years in our future. it's pure sci-fi
It’s trying a bit too hard to be (pulp) sci-fi and (high) fantasy at the same time.
@@Vingul there's no magic, it's not fantasy. There are remnants of old high tech nobody understands anymore (technological and biological) and the humans and animals eveolved to different shapes during that billion years. The same goes for climate, lenght of the day etc. It takes place in today's chile...
@@gst9325 You can have fantasy without magic.
no, you can have fiction without magic@@Vingul
@@gst9325 he was definitely blending elements of both genres, which is why we’re even talking about it.
Amazing book!