This FF7 Rebirth Mystery SHOCKS Maximilian Dood & Me
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 เม.ย. 2024
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What an insane theory for Final Fantasy 7 Remake part 3 shared by Sleepezi! What do you guys think about this one?
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Outro Music: "Smash Em, Rip Em"
Video Music: "Jenova Absolute * Advent Children Wasteland OST"
#ff7 #finalfantasy7 #ff7rebirth #squareenix #finalfantasy #finalfantasy7remake - เกม
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Theory - Knights of the Round are the original warriors that defeated Jenova in the past. The blank Materia will be used to cast Zack as a synergy skill. Also let's not forget the original plot of the third games... Huge Materia is a key plot point and we will learn how materia works. I imagine 3 Acts. Act 1 will be the Northern Continent. Act 2 will feature Junon, Wutai, Mideel, Junon and Fort Condor, Corel and Rocket Town, and Mideel. Act 3 will feature Cosmo Canyon, Forgotten Capital, Midgar, and the Northern Crater.
My theory is that Zack and aerith will be both brought back long enough to be reunited at the church and able to spend eternity together in the lifestream
In OG FF7 I always had a theory or suspicious feeling that Cloud / Jenova was behind nearly all the Sephiroth encounters in the game. Maybe even Aerith's death and all that too.
Any theory that will serve/enhance the “let’s mosey” scene is a welcome addition. That scene has to elevated to the nth degree.
theres gonna be such a swell up in the music and the speeches from the entire party leading up to that right before going into the final showdown that its gonna be insane lol well, here's hoping he still says it anyways, they've thrown the word around a few times before anyways so I dont see why not, wont be too surprised if its not exactly what he says tho I guess
Question: How likely is it that they might use the Main Theme of Final Fantasy for these scenes? (Like how FF16 did it)
@@MariusBoss11458 the OSTs in Rebirth are absolutely phenomenal and OSTs are heavily tied to the narrative as well, just look at the Jenova lifeclinger fight. Im 100% certain that scene will have godly OSTs to back it up.
Sometimes less is more
@@ff8masterc FF7 OG/Remake leans on subtle story telling. So in this case, yes, less is more. Cause you have to be paying attention to the story and characters for it to show any impact. If you weren't paying attention to any of it at all, then the impact of a scene would just be surface level.
Case in point, Church scene in Rebirth with Aerith and Cloud.. On a surface level, Aerith just hugged Cloud and whisked him away, then Sephiroth shows up..But if you've been following FF7 since the OG, that scene bears more weight than it shows.
I think you can add Cloud “giving” Sephiroth the black materia at the Temple as one of the moments where he isn’t actually there either
That or Sephiroth wanted to show everybody the new trick he taught his doggy
@@rosenrot234 that’s kinda my take on why he lets Cloud give him the Black Materia, after he already had it. The whole ‘Oops, I dropped it’ routine. He shows everyone, and especially Aerith, that even though Cloud can chase Sephiroth the world over, and has every intention of killing him, when push comes to shove he’s just a puppet that Sephiroth controls.
@@jarosbodytko6462Sephiroth still needs Cloud to give him the Materia because I don’t think Sephiroth has the Strengt or even is able to get it „to himself in the Creator“ without Cloud. Sephiroth doesn’t seem to have the Power to just take over every Clone at the same Time for a longer Period of Time. With cloud it’s different all together. Somehow.
@@jarosbodytko6462 some control that happens to break out when Aerith makes an act of presence. Either her voice, or the memory of her surpasses Sephi's influence then and there. Nonetheless.
Whoa, in OG FF7 Tifa says - It's just an illusion @5:03, but in Rebirth that's what Cloud says in the end when referring to the crack in the sky.
i mean, he is the master of his own illusionary world after all
Adding to Sleepezi's point. I think this may also add to Tifa's reaction at the end. She herself has experienced first hand Cloud losing control. That thought about Cloud actually killing Aerith may already be in her mind.
Something else to consider as well. Remember at the end of Remake on the highway, the whispers are blocking the way except for a white “portal”. The whole party enters the portal and ends up in an other timeline or world. At the end of Rebirth, there is another white portal, it leads to where Aerith is praying. Except, this time only Cloud enters the portal, the party had to keep it open for him. I can assume that where Cloud entered is another timeline or world. In that world he saves Aerith, then the whispers disappear and the rest of the party can enter. What I believe happened is the timelines where Aerith lives and dies merge together, only for Cloud since he was the only one to enter the portal. Cloud saw Aerith alive and dead where the rest of the party only sees her as dead. This is also why Cloud can see the tear in the sky while the rest of the party cannot. That tear is also part of the timeline where Cloud saved Aerith.
I guess it’s important because Barret is specifically referencing the highway at that moment
With the confirmation of stamps being the indication of what world we are in the party did not enter a different timeline because from the start of remake we had beagle stamp and we still have the same stamp in rebirth.
@@thebrigade7684 well, yes and no. They entered the Singularity which is where the worlds converge. After they defeated the Harbinger they came back out in the Beagle Stamp world, which at the end of the day is their world. The bigger question is, are the other worlds just as real? Sephiroth seems to think so as he wants to merge them, but Aerith calls the Terrier world her dream, which makes sense because it’s inhabited by characters from her memories (Zack, her first love and Biggs, her childhood friend). And the other worlds are results of Zack’s choices, so how real are they?
Yea, I've been thinking something like this. I think it's possible that at the end of the game, we were seeing/playing a Cloud from another timeline, or/and that in one timeline - the one that counts, which may not be the same as the one we started our journey in, but will end up in - he did succeed in saving Aerith.
I think the devs want the community to simply assume that Cloud is just really screwed up, but I think it may be more than just that. Maybe it's that he knows something the rest of the party - and the player - doesn't. Omni-Aerith has let him in on the master plan.
Looking at Kingdom Hearts, I know Nomura is not afraid to butcher a storyline in the name of diverting player expectations.
Agree, except for which world is where the tear is supposedly breaching at. It may be not Aerith's one, but the party's world.
Cloud tells Barret (also Tifa, being present) not to be fooled, "it is an illusion". So he's not referring to the sky breach as such, but to the fact that tey are not able to see it clearly as it should be.
Don't be definitely sure about the Aerith situation at the altar, it is wholely tricked on purpouse. But the question si that it is Aerith plane the one that is not doomed yet, cause she is in it alive and it is the last one where she could be so.
Clearly got no conclusive proof to this hypothesis, but if it is not, why sould Aerith's world be doomed unlike the party's one?
I can imagine this perfectly.
Sephiroth going, you killed her, Cloud.
And then Cloud laughing it off saying that it's ridiculous, Aerith isn't dead.
And then the whole party crumbles in that moment.
Honestly, top tier tomfoolery Sephiroth. Mad props.
Honestly, I wasnt a huge fan of the way the ending was handled, but if it leads to interesting stuff like this then I am a lot more open to it.
After repeatedly saying "It's not death, it's a homecoming."
Checks out that Seph is just "Oh I can use this" when he flies off. If Tifa and the others are too scared to even bother helping him in the Lifestream, Clouds donezo
Yeah I do wonder if Sephiroth will make more of an effort to not allow Cloud’s mind to be fixed in the lifestream.
Because in the OG game Sephiroth never gave a damn about Cloud and only became obsessed after he was defeated at the end. So here I wonder if he’ll stop him from falling into the lifestream or drag him into the negative lifestream
You realize Cloud is in Advent Children right...and survives.
@@saylosrelyks8645 I’m assuming by “donezo” he means Cloud is so fucked. Which is what happens. Except the remake series is really going all out in messing him up. Which is going to make the next game really interesting in how they just break him
@@saylosrelyks8645 Yes. And this is a different world basically. I just mean Tifa saving Cloud was really the big thing that lead to Seph's failure. If there is something put in the way of that. Clouds screwed.
There is someone else who can restore Cloud's mind in case Sephiroth successfully alienates Tifa from Cloud.
Zack.
Remember guys: Everyone’s theory including yours is incorrect! Only the game devs knows the truth!
FUCKING FACTS!!!! But, it still fun to theorized
Theories are all fair game imo. But like so many of these guys out here acting like they know what the truth is when it’s obvious as hell that the devs made it ambiguous on purpose. Mainly it’s the “Aerith is dead!” Crowd.
the devs are Genesis confirmed
I bet you're a fucking blast at parties.
@@daesong1378she’s dead bro
Sleepezi's prediction of Cloud's sword being cursed and needs to be destroyed, and then Zack gives him his sword....mind blown!
Sleepezi's idea of Zack giving Cloud his Buster Sword "again" since the black materia corrupted the other one is fantastic!
Some other points that we should consider:
- Cloud's sword has a green glow as he is swinging it to block Sephiroth's attack at the altar. So... What does that symbolize exactly? We know that Holy in OG for some reason turns green if the prayer is answered. Is the green the lifesteam or something else? So perhaps the empty materia will have not only Cloud's memories and dreams but also Aerith's somehow, since at the ending the materia reflects clouds(Cloud) and earth(Aerith).
- The two whale weapons definitely have a major role in part 3, but being two we can assume that one will be for Cloud and the other for Tifa, helping them to leave the lifestream sequence, although one of the weapons was wounded by Sephiroth in Rebirth, so what will that cause after or during the lifestream sequence? That wound could enable Sephiroth to interfer the Lifestream sequence, making it unstable, only to fail/be stopped by the real Cloud that found himself. Another thing we could consider too that both weapons glowing at the ending of Rebirth could be the trigger for the other weapons to start "booting" or to start some other type of planet failsafe? Maybe that was just their way of repelling the arbiters, by being together that glow will keep them safe until the constant attacks stop. Wondering too if the whale at Corel's reactor was there in case Tifa fell into it, but Sephiroth's plan was dedicated to Gongaga's in particular.
- When the robed men start migrating from Nibelheim at the ending of Rebirth, there is a shot where we can see a very strange concentration of arbiters from afar. We can easily miss in the scene. Wonder what they were doing there, and where/why.
There was one theory SleepEzi mentioned on his stream that I wish he mentioned here. One of his theories of part 3 is that, in the OG the group come across Sephiroth and Holy, which is this big cave underground of white light. In part 3, his theory is that because the trilogy has done such a great job to associate holy with Aerith, to the point of her BEING holy. Aerith is trapped within Holy, and the group have to save her and pull her out of holy. Bringing her back to life, which IMO is such a fucking awesome idea. Like de-fridging a character, the catharsis of that idea. Sounds so cool.
there's a huge amount symbolism in it the empty materia that aerith gave cloud: first of all in the ending scene where cloud is holding the materia, the reflection in it looks almost identical to aerith's mural in her shinra room back in remake where it showed holy with a yellow flower inside it, the materia is currently hollow like cloud, like you said the materia reflects clouds (cloud) and earth (aerith), the tree we see reflected in it has also been represented as imagery for the promised land, cloud's blond hair also looks like the yellow flowers that aerith likes that represent "reunion" and those yellow flowers seem to have a lot of meaning in relation to "omni aerith" and her 4d chess plays ("follow them, the yellow flowers")... there's probably more stuff that i'm missing but i wonder what all of that will mean in the end.
ofc we're only gonna know what kind of role the empty materia will play in part 3 but there's definitely a lot of interesting symbolism that has been sprinked throughout both remake and rebirth in it and the devs themselves have been alluding that the hollow materia will play a key role in pt3.
@@drakenfist oh i definitely love that theory and i've never seen anyone make that connection, definitely interesting.
I think it would be kind of hard to convince the party that cloud himself killed her. She would have a very specific narrow stab wound through her abdomen of which cloud does not wield a weapon that would give her that kind of wound.
They might think he was involved but not the person that stabbed her
This is like the knights of the round of FF7 creators! Imagine if it was Cloud that killed Aerith and completely changing everything that happened in the og...that would be insane!
They pretty much managed to put every theory people had into one scene. 😁
‘Cloud will save Aerith’
‘Sephiroth kills Aerith like in OG’
‘Cloud kills Aerith’
That would legitimately be the single worst and stupidest retcon ever in video gaming history.
That really wouldnt work. The whole point is that Cloud feels guilty already for not being able to save her, but its not his fault and Aerith and everyone wants Cloud to forgive himself. But if he actually did kill her, then that survivors guilt arc is ruined. It just wouldnt work. It needs to be Sephiroth. He needs to be the one that takes what Cloud cherishes and this serves to fuel Clouds conviction to stop Sephiroth.
@@DingoDIDeatmybaby Yuffie dying in place of Aerith would have been so much worse IMO (There are people who genuinely thought that would happen 💀)
Well Sephiroth's real body is in the northern crater at the time of Aerith's death.
but that one line that sephiroth said " i have underestimated you" will throw this theory to the bin. Aerith's lifestream force is going to be stronger in the final game.
I think the Aerith visions are really her from the "other side" helping out. Even Red felt her presence in the final scenes. I'm thinking Aerith was always a force of good and pureness in the FF7 world, and whenever she is on screen it's her and a sign of hope and light in the darkness. I wouldn't think they'd use her character as a hallucination. She also told Cloud "whatever happens, don't blame yourself." so hopefully he takes that to heart and doesn't consider himself to blame for her death.
I agree, the visiom is definitely the real
Aerith communicating through the lifestream to somewhat try to help
Cloud cope.
The Cloud killing aerith theory aside, I don’t think the rest of the party believes he did, cuz they (or at least Barret) sees Sephiroth and assumes he did it. They would also probably not be as trusting of Cloud if anyone thought he did anything to her.
As for the blood on Cloud’s hands, he’s holding a bleeding out body. Kinda hard to not be covered in blood.
Ultimately I don’t subscribe to the theory, much less the stuff supposedly backing it up
I think Tifa at least will question if he did it. He almost killed Tifa earlier and he’s acting weird AF about the whole situation.
@@ASSEMBLOTRON confrontation, yes. He’s clearly not in a stable mindset, and they will more than likely have to fix his brain.
I just don’t believe it’s a “he probably killed our friend, let’s tell him to calm down” situation
@@Kitth3n I mean she arrived at the same time and saw the same things as Barret. She’s aware that sephiroth has been trying to take and manipulate cloud from her time in the livestream.
If anything she’d be the most trusting of Cloud, but also the most concerned for his well being, based on every conversation they’ve had since she got back from the lifestream about trying to help and support him.
The rest of the party still believes Cloud, but only because they haven't seen that Cloud almost killed Tifa.
Only Tifa knew that.
Plus, Tifa didn't tell anyone about it (expect Aerith!).
@@Kr12B and she’s still his #1 backer despite that, cuz she knows something’s off and wants to help him. She’s well aware that he wouldn’t intentionally cause any harm to Aerith.
Tifa thinking Cloud stabbed Aerith, could br a reason she doesn't even say a word to him.
Even so, she must understand about the degradation and Sephiroth's influence and his being manipulated. She's more likely scared of losing him than of his actions.
Right. Specially since Cloud already attacked her and almost got her killed once.
True she's devastated on both fronts with Aerith dead and the inability to help Cloud because she's the only person his real self to come out and say that he is falling apart and doesn't know where he begins and they end.
If this leads into the party fighting Cloud and losing controls and saying "You killed Aerith!" I'm gonna lose it.
it could just be that she's so torn up over losing aerith while she notices that cloud is completely unaffected. everyone else is feeling it tho for sure, especially tifa, but you may be right.
Biggest issue I see with this… clouds sword is stupidly massive. Like bigger than Aeriths torso big. The party would have seen the stab wound.
Cloud wouldn't have stabbed her. Think of the motion we are "preventing" him from making. It's a slash, not a stab
@@patrickjawisdom4141 right. But the theory that’s being stated is that since the party didn’t see Sephiroth stab Aerith, they assume it was Cloud that did it. I’m arguing the sword is just way too big, the hole in Aeriths chest would have been much smaller that akin to a katana sized hole vs a 3ft wide hole from the buster sword.
A note to remember is that everything we see right now is Cloud's perspective. I think we haven't seen some things the party saw what Cloud actually did/acted that we also haven't seen it yet. I feel like in the part 3 we'll get some flashbacks to what really happens.
It's even mind bogling that when he kills that jenova clone, Cloud says to the party that he is not like Sepiroth, he will never be like him; in comparison when he was a young kid in Nibelheim, making a promise to Tifa, under the water tank, and before that saying that he will be a hero, like Sepiroth. It is really mind bogling and an amazing story! :)
I wish 4-8 was included in this.
Me tooooo
YES. He's THE guy for FF7 OG in my mind but we haven't seen him in discussions outside of his own channel. Would love to see him (death_unites_us on Twitch) in the samw discussions and acknowledgements as others for the new games.
I couldn't agree more.. I hope SE recognize this guy.. he is in a league of his own
Never heard of him but will check him out for sure.
@@jarosbodytko6462 If you think of Max and various streamers as authorities on lore, Death/4-8 has that knowledge but is more an expert of the game mechanics of FF7 OG. He covers the game's code, glitches, hacks and puts you in the mind of how they programmed the original game. He's seen some things in Rebirth that nobody else caught, like the OG game's Japan only 'Test 0' beasts being a sidequest enemy in Rebirth. Real deep level understanding. He's been doing OG FF7 stuff for so many years, before there even was a remake.
In the conclusion of FF7 Rebirth, Cloud's ability to perceive Aerith is a reminiscent echo of FF7 AC, where Aerith would lend her aid to Cloud in times of crisis.
Great conversation it was. So many cool theories and ideas, anything can be possible at this point.
i definitely feel like in part 3 sephiroth will mess with cloud and the party and there's definitely a possiblity that the party starts doubting him and wondering if cloud was the one to kill her while being controlled. granted, i don' think there's any chance of cloud actually being the one to do it. that's not only way too dark but i also don't think cloud would ever recover from something like that either way.
There’s no Jenova manipulation. That is Aerith. I believe that it’s the same Aerith from AC that gives Cloud a hand in the end.
My question is this……What is Deepgrounds story in this?
Most likely they'll show up when we raid Midgard in pt 3. With Nero being the final boss and bringing clouser to Yuffie's arc
Problem is that she has a piercing the size of the masamune in her body not a giant buster sword. I guess, they could play it off like he did it but really wouldn’t work imo.
Great catch on the "Finishing Touch" Limit Break during the fight with the Midgar-Snake. I never pieced that together.
Same.
Aerith " whatever happens, don't blame yourself "..
But if that actually happened..Clouds redemption has got be Ginormous!
Final Fantasy VII part 3: Redemption. It works lol
@@forkymental5154 ah, Clouds redemption please..not Sephirots! 🤣
@@forkymental5154 Dirge remake title
i think there's a chance that they might toy with the idea that cloud did it in order to make the party distrust him however i don't think there's any chance that cloud was the one to kill her, that would almost make him unredeemable tbh, even if it wasn't him in control. plus i feel like if cloud were to know he was the one that killed aerith no amount of therapy in the world would help him recover from that lmao
@ugh5281 true! Cloud "I'm really sorry guys! kisses Barret..
" All is forgiven! " 🤣🤣🤣
Cloud has “infinite potential” and Sephiroth and Aerith both know it. Sephiroth wants to tempt Cloud to use his power to help him “create forever” (end the cycle of life and death) with the implied promise of bringing back Aerith in the process. Aerith wants Cloud to accept her death as a stepping stone to accepting the necessity of life and death in general.
Well in that case Sephiroth doesn’t sound so bad right?! 😂
@@flyaroundyourfire Yeah but in the description for Sephiroth Reborn, it states that the reason he wants to unite fragmented space-time and create eternity is so he can rule over it.
a damn theory just gave me goosebumps! When i first beat it i kept telling myself "Tifa is going to absolutely snap on Cloud at some point". The Tifa temple scene showed her anger towards soldiers.
That was a great stream. Glad I was able to stumble upon it live. Hope you guys do another one like this in a few years.
I've thought about the idea of the party thinking Cloud did it, but that doesn't add-up for me. I think they'd have said something, but more importantly a buster sword and a Masamune leave quite a different hole.
I can totally see Sephiroth convincing Cloud though that he killed Aerith, that seems very plausible.
I don't think the party thinks Cloud did it, but I think Tifa's not 100% sure given what happened to her in Gongaga.
I think their plan for part 3 is to get the audience to turn on the waterworks extremely high.
Part 2’s ending got the audience to feel exactly like how Cloud’s mental state is at the end.
they're going to redo the scene of the capital from the original and show cloud actually crying and giving his speech while everyone around him watches. Basically, aerith is dead but she will die again and it will be more brutal. the game Must compete with itself after setting up that damn child aerith scene. they can't have that be the saddest moment...they're gonna remake the death scene a 3rd time and it's gonna hit very differently once they tie in some new story elements. maybe it's that cloud actually killed aerith this time, or cloud just finally snaps and realizes she really is gone and they bury her body. this might happen earlier in the game, because what would they do, leave her body there and go on a whole ass adventure while it rots and then come back to it later?
@@psychedelicfox4815facts, even the voice actor said he recorded the og lines cloud said to aerith and it was such an intense and sad recording. But confused it wasnt in rebirth. Even the funeral scene, there’s no way they’d just completely decided to cut it off. These are definitely gonna be redone in part 3 when cloud is finally cleansed and can see the reality, and it will hit harder.
Something that makes me pause is some of the dialog in the final battle sequence when Aerith and Cloud take on Sephiroth.
Sephiroth: "What do you make of this Cloud...is it real or a fever dream?"
Cloud: Don't even bother. That won't work on me - not anymore.
What do you mean not anymore? If you think about it... that line doesn't fit with our current understanding of the events of the game.
Is the final battle we witness actually on a different timeline where Cloud has already had his resolution and comes to terms that Aerith is gone from physical existence and he was being manipulated by Sephiroth?
Similar, the timeline where Marlene says Cloud needs to save Aerith. Recall Tifa, Barrett and the others are gone in that timeline.
So when Cloud says "Wake up Aerith" and she wakes up smiling surrounded by a rainbow...yet no one is around but Cloud...that seems to fit with the events of that timeline where he saves Aerith?
Final thoughts- I know the Ultimania has said there aren't parallel universes...but we're definitely seeing something of a separate world (maybe vision from the lifestream?) that has branched off due to choices made by our characters.
The thing is, that’s what he says in the localisation which might not be what is intended by the Devs because the localisation makes a lot of changes to the dialogue that change big aspects of the game.
A quick example is that in the localised version of both Remake and Rebirth they try to make it seem like Cloud and Tifa are childhood sweethearts but that’s not the case in the original Japanese version. Case and point, the dialogue between Cloud and Tifa at the Kalm inn.
In the English version Tifa says:
“I hoped we could just pick up where we left off but I guess that’s not the case”
In the Japanese version she say:
“We weren’t exactly close enough to be childhood friends, were we?”
Literally the exact opposite implication.
@jk844100 True...could very well be an issue with the localization and nothing more. I would be curious if that is truly the case in this instance.
If not...seems like that dialog hints and opens up more questions and possibilities.
@@MikeJones__Who they do change the dialogue in crucial scenes.
Like when Cloud is holding Aerith after she gets stabbed.
In English he says:
“I’ve got this”
In Japanese he says:
“Wait for me”
@jk844100 Yea...I have seen that and don't disagree on that point.
I'm just curious specifically on the line I'm referencing... if a similar localization issue exists there...what is it that Cloud actually said then?
@@jk844100Why does localization do stuff like this?, I assume whoever does English localization for Square (not sure if it's in house or not) would be highly proficient in both English and Japanese so making an error in translation with something like "wait for me" seems highly unlikely,
Whoever was working on this particular part of the dialogue could have just translated it word for word as you did, I understand that sometimes dialogue needs to be changed because of cultural idioms that we wouldn't understand in the west.
This feels like change for no reason what so ever other than the person working on this part thought it sounded "cool"
Nah. I love these theories, but nah. If the gang thought Cloud was the one that killed Aerith, they wouldn't be... so chill about it for so long, and they definitely wouldn't let him on the Bronco.
If you recall back to all the Remake theorycrafting, once everyone clued into the whole "alternate timelines" thing with Zack and the stamp bag and healed Biggs, everyone went off on like "Zack is going to have his own parallel story and then they'll merge and blah blah blah" and everyone went off, and the sum total of Zack's addition to Rebirth's story ended up teaching us "Parallel worlds exist, here's how they work". He didn't have a complete story himself, he had tutorial vignettes basically. Whatever theorycrafters come up with is cool, but they always play 5D chess and Square always ends up playing 3 1/2D.
So why were those vignettes there? Well, there's only one moment that any of Zack's moments are relevant to in Rebirth, and that's what happens to Aerith. Zack's bits (and the whisper talk from Remake) hammer home that parallel worlds are created through actions. Aerith is alive in a parallel world Cloud created through his actions, and she's dead in the main world we've been adventuring in, and due to some influence (Aerith or Sephiroth?) Cloud is now aware of both. All that Cloud is suppressing is his perception of the Dead world, because he has a better world right in front of him that is nonetheless real.
Defying/destroying the arbiters of fate and thereby changing how the story goes through actions is the main thrust of this trilogy, why it's being treated as a seperate entity from the OG. Aerith's death is the emotional and narrative crescendo of the story, the biggest moment. There is zero possibility that the biggest moment in all three games sidesteps, downplays, or has nothing to do with altering fate and parallel worlds. It is definitely not going to revolve entirely around Cloud being unable to cope with trauma, which is not an aspect that has been brought up or played with much at all, and is certainly not a main plot point up until now (all of Cloud's head nonsense have been Jenova glitches so far, or at least have been indistinguishable from them). In fact, since we know Sephiroth can travel through time essentially, influencing events way before he normally would, it's entirely possible Cloud's entire backstory off forgetting his past and thinking he was a Soldier was retroactively put there by Sephiroth, eliminating the entire "Cloud can't cope" angle from the story entirely.
If Zack's B-side adventures have nothing to do with Aerith's fate, they're basically wasted time, because they don't narratively apply anywhere else in the entire game. I promise you Square knows about Chekov's gun ya'll.
Here's the best guess of what's happened to Aerith that makes everything work as best as possible: Aerith's alive in a parallel world, which have been shown to "overlap" each other, i.e. they're all existing at once on the same physical space on the planet (Sephiroth even says as much, "the planet has many worlds"). Aerith is aware one can "hide" from Sephiroth in these parallel worlds, although he's also clearly hunting her through them (see: the Date, Sephiroth showing up in the church right after Aerith pushes Cloud back to reality). Aerith is clearly using her alive status in this parallel world to enact some sort of plan that Cloud is aware of to some degree. Everything fits with this: This perfectly explains why Red can sense Aerith even though she's dead (to him), why her dress doesn't move when the Bronco's engine explodes, this makes every story beat in the meta plot in both games so far relevant to the biggest moment in the story, it makes taking away our goodbye make sense, and most importantly, it allows square to basically still do whatever they want in the third game. Even if we knew this was one hundred percent exactly what happened, it does literally nothing towards helping us predict what part 3 will bring. The only reason I can see that people wouldn't go with this theory is that it entirely sidelines Cloud's character trait he had once of blocking out trauma and.... good? It's not a good story beat, honestly. It wasn't in the OG either. Relegating Cloud's mentally escaping trauma to a one time deal that was possibly always a Jenova manipulation is such a better story beat than "anytime things get sad for Cloud his entire reality breaks".
I think your theory is probably pretty close to the truth. The only thing I think you've gotten wrong is the part where you say Aerith is alive in an alternate world, but dead in the main world. I believe the reverse is true.
Recall when Zack made the decision to go to Shinra HQ to find a cure for Cloud's mako sickness instead of going to save Biggs. Would you agree that saving Biggs would have been the "originally intended" path? The narrative up to that point seemed to suggest so. After all, the only reason Zack ultimately prioritized a cure for Cloud despite Biggs' plight seeming to be more immediate was purely based upon information Marlene imparted to him - the vision she had about Aerith surely dying if Cloud didn't wake up to save her. This is information he wouldn't have possibly known if not for an anomaly caused by Aerith.
When Zack decided to prioritize the cure for Cloud, the resulting events played out in that very same timeline. This triggered a branching alternate world in that moment. Not long afterwards, the game goes back to show us how events played out in that alternate world. It inherited the "originally intended" string of events and it made it very clear that this was the alternate world by showing us a Pug Stamp instead of a Terrier Stamp - the breed he was in the world where Zack made the decision to prioritize a cure for Cloud.
The demonstrated mechanics of how world branching works in the story would suggest that if Cloud deviated from the "originally intended" path in the main world, the results of that deviation would play out in that very same world, while triggering the creation of an alternate world in which the "originally intended" outcome would be inherited and play out simultaneously. This is why I personally believe that the game does an unannouced perspective swap to the newly created alternate world during the Aerith prayer alter scene and almost everything we see from that point all the way to the final scene is taking place in that alternate world.
@@emcee009 This is an interesting theory except for Stamp. When we go rescue Biggs, Stamp is a pug, which is new. When we look for Cloud's cure, Stamp is seen in the background of Shinra HQ, the original (Zack) timeline scruffy dog.
The thing in the main story I don't think jives with this is that everyone in a parallel world/aware of parallel worlds sees the sky rift... and our heroes save for Aerith and Cloud are the only ones that don't see it. Red probably *would* see it, as he's one of the ones "touched" by Aerith, but he explicitly states that the effects of her doing that (his vision of the future) is now gone (but not so gone that he can't sense her in a parallel world when she reaches out).
Honestly, I'm not sure that "main world" and "Parallel world" will end up mattering a ton overall. Narratively speaking, what Square needed was a way to seperate Aerith from the main group (because the story changes *significantly* if just nothing happens to her and they've stated that's not what they want) while also creating a scenario where events regarding her can play out totally different from the OG. My old comics brain is telling me this is going to play out like Crisis on Infinite Earths: Aerith and Sephiroth fighting for control over who gets to merge all these worlds into one and what the result looks like.
@@megamandrn001 Well, that was actually my point - the timeline in which Zack chooses to save Biggs was the newly created timeline - hence Pug Stamp instead of Terrier Stamp.
I was trying to point out that your claim that Aerith died in the main timeline isn't mechanically how timeline branching has been demonstrated to work in Zack's scenario.
The way things worked out when Zack defied the originally intended path would strongly suggest that when Cloud defied the fate by saving Aerith, the results of that action would have played out in his main timeline, not the newly created timeline. The newly created timeline would have taken on the originally intended path, as the Pug timeline did with Zack's actions.
As for the sky rift - my theory is that Aerith in the main world could always see it. This is implied in her line at the end of Remake part 1 "The sky... I don't like it."
Why Cloud can now see it as she did - I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's because he's in possession of the white (clear) materia?
@@emcee009 Now this is interesting. I like this. Especially since we know that line was so important they uploaded a patch to change it.
@@megamandrn001 While we're on the subject of the plot, can I pick your brain on something in Rebirth that seemed like a plothole? Just trying to figure out if I misinterpreted the scenario.
So... back in the Temple of the Ancients when the black whispers knock Aerith off of an expansion, Cloud goes to save her, but Sephiroth destroys the expansion and they both fall into the depths below.
A few scenes later we see Cloud waking up in "Husky timeline" Midgar, in Aerith's room. Aerith is there, wanting him to take her on a date.
This seems to suggest that Aerith & Cloud both have the ability to transfer their consciousnesses into the bodies of their otherworld counterparts, if that counterpart is in a coma. I also think this might be the method in which Biggs transferred over from the Beagle timeline into Zack's Terrier timeline, since he specifically notes that he "woke up" there, but that's besides the point.
Anyways, at the end of their date, Aerith gives Cloud the full white materia, shoves him into a portal to the "true nature of reality" and after an interaction with Sephiroth he makes his way back to the Beagle timeline.
He finds himself in the Sleeping Forest, meets Aerith awaiting him there, gives her the white materia, and she gives him the clear materia (remember that last detail - it's important).
She then departs toward the Forgotten Capital. He tries to follow but is stopped by the white whispers. He then collapses and his conciousness transports back to his rightful body. We're then briefly shown a montage of what was occuring with his body while he was absent. This seems to imply that while his consciousness was in his other world counterpart's body, that counterpart's consciousness was in his body - hence why his party members witnessed him in a materia poisoning coma during that time period.
So... HERE is the plothole:
What happened to "Husky timeline" Cloud? Last we saw of him, he was laying in the forrest. I know what you're thinking - he was probably transported back to the Husky timeline, right?
Okay. But, don't you remember which body Aerith gave her clear materia to? Therefore, wouldn't the clear materia had been transported back to the Husky timeline along with that body if that were the case?
Wasn't Cloud in physical possession of that very same materia in the last scene of the game? But Aerith handed that materia to Cloud while he was in a completely different body, didn't she?
Help me square this circle.
i think one aspect that a lot of ppl are not considering is that in the OG there was a big plot twist about cloud's identity that shocked everyone but the twist is now spoiled and not only that, the devs almost went out of their way to spoil it by encouraging people to play crisis core and watch advent children before playing rebirth. the story will still follow the same major beats so that "OG plot twist" will still happen however since it won't have the same impact bc the majority of people already know it, i think the big plot twist will be about aerith's death but not in the way most people are thinking... a lot of people seem to think that the "twist" is that cloud was delusional all along and he needs to accept aerith died but that in itself is not a twist at all, there's no surprise, no shock. don't get me wrong, i can see them exploring cloud's grief over losing aerith on a deeper level however i think there's more to aerith's death and her fate than it meets the eye. i mean, there's a reason why they made the ending so ambiguous and they left aerith's fate up for interpreation even in the ultemania, her fate seems to be the biggest mystery of this ending and depending on how each player interprets the story and the events that take place, everyone seems to have a different opinion.
in this game in specific they really hammared how messed up cloud is and by the end the majority of people is left thinking cloud is just out of his mind when it comes to him seeing aerith seemingly alive but i think they're doing it on purpose to make it seem like he's just messed up and unreliable but he's actually not as crazy as they're making it seem. i remember a while back the devs saying the big twist this time around would be more about "unreliable world" rather than "unreliable narrator" and i think that'd be so much more interesting and it would allow them to have somes sort of twist when it comes to what actually happened during aerith's death rather than just "cloud is an unreliable narrator and you can't trust what he sees". don't get me wrong though, cloud is definitely messed up but i just don't think he's messed up to the extent people seem to think, as if everything he's seeing isn't true, that's just way too predictable and there would be no real mystery for part 3. i just think there's context missing to a lot of the scenes they present us in order to make it ambiguous and confusing. also when i say a "twist" when it comes to aerith's death it could be a lot of different things: it could be that she actually died but not in the way we think, it could be that cloud actually created a world where he saved her or it could be something else entirely different that no one is expecting.
It was a great watch! So glad everyone got together.
Personally think the question is more will another aerith cross over into that world. Can’t see cloud being blamed.
Yes, that was my conclusion too.. He killed her or Sephiroth made them think he did so could now have more control after he left by himself to degrade even further. The hallucinations are either him not copping with what happened or Jenova controlling his mind or really her pushing him to continue without her.
My question for the theories about Sephiroth trying to damage Cloud even further is what would be the purpose? Unless Sephiroth kills Tifa, she will just somehow fix his mind again, even if it takes slightly longer. Even if the party abandons cloud because they think Cloud killed Aerith, Tifa will still cling to him considering she was almost killed by him already and she sucked it up.
Also, Cloud already knows about Zack being in Nibelheim. Cloud doesn’t remember yet that he wasn’t in Soldier, but that’s not exactly that crazy of a revelation to make Cloud go crazy. I have wondered about this very thing since they make a point to hide what really happens.
Umm it's actually more messed up since he replaced a regular shinra trooper in his memory now with Zack and now thinks 3 of them soldiers were there Sephiroth can still use the photo just the same way against him
Part 3 will be more dramatically and insane. But at the end cloud will fight 1 vs 1 with Sephiroth it will be sure like OG. I cant wait !!
That's willllld dude.... Holy shit. Throughout the entire game, clouds not been himself. He even tried to kill tifa! The only issue I have with that, is if the gang thought cloud killed aerith, I feel like aetith would intervene to assure every1 that that isn't the case
I can say for certain that the party does have doubts about Cloud, especially Tifa and Barret. Look how they glance at each other in the ending. Barret's hesitation too when he says they trust him. Tifa doesn't even speak to Cloud as they board the plane. She doesn't even look at him. I think there's definitely mistrust brewing.
This was an awesome collab. Hope y’all can do it again. Would’ve loved it if y’all talked more about what y’all want to see in Part 3 besides story stuff.. felt like y’all barely touched on gameplay for Part 3.
We definitely will in the future
damn i guess i wasn't the only one thinking cloud had to do something with aerith at the capital. i was initially thinking cloud could've done it instead of sephiroth especially with how the scene was portrayed. good video bltzz! i didnt think about the other scenes that you brought up that give more evidence of cloud potentially ending aerith. i loved the discussion with you and crew just giving all these wonderful theories. im really excited for part 3 for sure now.
I think the theory isn't saying that Cloud actually did it. It just something that the party members could think of Cloud based of what they've seen before from him. Especially Tifa that was directly attacked by him. I don't think there's any chance that Cloud actually did it.
@@MatJap1whoops, got a bit surprised when i heard the theory. i misheard about sephiroth's manipulation or giving the illusion for cloud's party to see him as a villain 😅
I agree with the theory that whenever cloud is “paying attention” to his surroundings, imposter aerith shows up aka jenova. But, the very last scene that showed aerith watching the bronco fly into the horizons, i feel like that was the real aerith and that “goodbye” she said, in my opinion, felt like it had some serious weight behind it to the point where the implications of that “goodbye” might be more than just a simple farewell.
I actually did think cloud would be the murderer before this game released. But i didn't think about how all these small elements might line up to make a little play of deception. It's quite masterful if they did.
interesting how you guys missed that sephiroth stated that he needed cloud to suffer and have a burst of emotions because it affected the multiverse, sephirtoh was out to hurt cloud its clear that aerith was trying her best to protect his mental state as well as prevent sephiroth from achieving his goal. thats why im willing to bet that the aerith we see at the end is real, nomura stated in an interview for advent children that cloud is able to see and speak to aerith because she lived on in his conciousness.
I remember watching this part in the stream and even commented how wild it was in the best way.
Like seriously how effed up would it be if Sephiroth tricks into believing Cloud possibly killed Aerith. It would be such a twist of the knife.
Regardless, I do hope there is a cloud boss fight even if it probably won’t happen. It would be absolutely terrifying
I mean Sephiroth in the OG was really good at weaving lies and truth together. Like at the Northern Crater when he shows that it was Zack as the orher SOLDIER at Nibelheim, but also made Cloud think that he wasn't even Cloud.
So I can see Sephiroth doing this.
I was thinking the same shit when cloud have blood on his hands dripping down onto Aerith and the fact that aeriths whispers were trying to keep him out while sephs whispers opened the path for cloud. Aerith saying whatever happens don't blame yourself. Would really be the best thing to make cloud crack at northern crater before falling into the lifestream.
It doesn't even need to be a lie. Cloud is being dragged by whispers, forced to raise his sword just like in the original. And he hallucinates saving her. We don't know when the hallucination started. Maybe he DID kill her. We, as the audience, don't even know.
This was such a good podcast. Felt like i was hanging out with you all!
I am in the Aerith is a Jenova clone camp. I don't doubt that the 'real' Aerith is in the lifestream, but I think what Cloud is seeing is Jenova. They spell that out in the Temple.
Yesss. Join the fray!!
I dont thinks its jenova at all. I think its the same situation as zack. I think shes dead in the normal world/timeline or whatever you wanna call it but the dflection created another split in which she survived in an alternate reality.
I'm in the middle of nowhere for work so all I've been playing is this game so this is my terrible take on it. When Sephiroth says something like "the planet encompasses a multitude of worlds", it reminding of Berserk (also Griffith and Sephiroth are eerily similar IMO). Like dimensions layered on top of each other on the same planet. When Tifa was pushed into the lifestream, I saw it as the Weapons were trying to show her the truth about Cloud but Sephiroth stopped them from going further into her memories and prevented her to actually see what happened during the Nibelheim Incident. When the "memories" of Zangan and the other pulled Tifa back into consciousness, Cloud walked away with Sephiroth. When Tifa woke up with the party and Cloud was there, he looked concerned, which reminded me of the scene after rescuing Johnny in Chapter 3 of Remake, when she mentioned how his eyes were different. 1.) being infused with Mako and such and 2.) homie is COOOOOLD. In Chapter 9 of Rebirth when Cloud falls to Sephiroth's influence, there is something different in his eyes that are pretty noticeable when watching the scene play out, BUT Tifa sees that Cloud is "back" when the Weapon leaves her with the party. That is how the scene at Cisnei's house makes sense to me, even though he diiiid just try to kill her, she wants to remind Cloud of who he actually is and recognises Sephiroths' power over Cloud.
Tifa gets noticeably irritated when Cloud is "heartless" like in the Mithril Mines or after Dyne is killed. Tifa walks away before Cloud has a heart to heart with Barret (but if you watch the scene back, you can see Aerith watching from the buggy in the background, cool detail). Anyways, I thought that because Tifa was in the lifestream, she can now see what Cloud and Aerith can see to a lesser degree, seeing how she was exposed to the lifestream she can recognize Jenova's influence when the others in the party can't, meaning that she can see Sephiroth's pawns similar to how Cloud can see Sephiroth through the robed men. I took it as Tifa not being able to distinguish between Jenova, Sephiroth or Cloud. So when we saw Aerith die, it's seems that it was Jenova-roth that did the deed, but to her (like Cloud seeing Sephiroth in the robes) she has a hard time seeing if it is Clouds doing OR she can now see that veils between worlds because the exposure to the lifestream has granted her that ability to see the different outcomes. As an aside, Tifa was the Chapter 12 date in my playthrough, which after seeing the cutscenes in Chapter 14, the implications are horrifying; like did she kiss Cloud, or did she kiss Sephiroth sort of thing? Again, this is a terrible take, although I don't think I have ever had this much fun with this game or even thinking about whats next and I can't wait to be wrong about all of this, I'm just occupying my time feeling in the gaps with my own head canon. Loved the podcast you all did, hope that becomes a regular deal.
That's one of the weirder theories, I feel it's a more linear logic. Tifa's different from the OG because she went into the Mako/lifestream in Gongaga, which appeared to give her the ability to either see the "other reality" or the ability to see what Cloud was seeing.
One wild theory I have is the final fight takes place in 3 realities. The start of the fight takes place in FF7 OG it's only 3 party members and the fight is purposely scripted to knock out the other two party members but Cloud and then when Jenova rips open the "barrier" the party returns however I feel this is the part from the reality in which Aerith lived. I think this because one thing that is constant whether she lives or dies is that she is still knocked out for the time, and another thing I find very strange about that whole fight in general is the cast isn't acting like someone just died, they are fighting and even having more jovial conversation with one another.
To me that doesn't add up because why would they be having this nonchalant conversation taking down Jenova after witnessing Aerith being killed? The mood just doesn't feel right.
A="OG", B="Aerith Lives" " C="Dream"
So basically course of events go
(A) Cloud and 2 random party members fight Jenova, they both get knocked out of the arena. After dealing enough dmg Jenova rips open the arena and
(B) We appear in the reality where Aerith lives, the way the cast talks to one another feels unnatural for what they witnessed, it feels more like a jovial conclusion to a Journey's End rather than anger towards their enemy.
(B/C) Cloud and Zack appear in a potential reality in which those two universes are merged and fight Sephiroth, Sephiroth then decides to split the worlds and turn into Sephiroth Reborn
-Now the next three scenarios I feel are all happening at the same time-
(B) Cloud fights SR by himself meanwhile
(A) This is the team in which the 2 random party members were knocked out, they didn't fight the rest Jenova and are confused as to where Cloud is, the arena also appears to look different from before and Barret's comment of "This ones for Aerith" seems to suggest that she might be dead. Another thing to note, the way they talk to one another is less conversational and more strategic, they are more focused on the fight rather than focused on remarking on their journey.
(C) Zack down his part to damage SR and then it goes back to
(A) The team finished off SR
(B) We go back to Cloud fighting Sephiroth and (C) Aerith arrives to aid him
But I would say it's an interesting observation to look at on a second go at it. Observe the way they act during the first interaction when the party is facing off against Jenova Lifebringer compared to how the Party acts when they are facing Sephiroth Reborn. The mood just feels very different it doesn't feel like it's the same exact characters that they are from two different realities.
I'll have to replay the ending to see about this but it is pretty interesting. Like playing the og fight without knowing
Here’s a take with some minor spoilers. In the very beginning of the game Cloud gets attacked by Midgarsomr and Sephiroth just forms out of thin air kills the thing and disappears into the wind. Other people can see Sephiroth though when he manifests so we know it’s not Cloud however, it’s seems his ghost or spirit is hanging around Cloud. By that means if Cloud didn’t go to find Aerith Sephiroth wouldn’t have been able to attack her.
I had the same feeling that sephi was never there in the swamp.
So many great details and theories in both video and comments!
I like the thought process, but surely the actual mound and Sephiroth being there would squash it? Though I suppose they're not out here doing an autopsy and Cloud did recently try and kill Elena and such. AH.
¬ Occam's razzor, no need to. But okay, let's break straight down it¬
1. Its not the non-blood stained masamune, is the scene in wider. The silver hair man is holding the crime weapon, Cloud doesn't so at all. Everyone is watching, everyone reacts in that regard.
You would say well, any of us knows, well, that's exactly what I'm pointing, the knowledge is an element ruining this very theory.
2. Tifa what is doing is reasoning while sitting along the party by the water. She is puting together wheter she saw one thing (Aertih's dead body) or another (Aerith lying uncounscious). Nothing more, guys. She breaks to mourn only afterwards when she surrenders herself to emotion.
She's the only one crying still in the grass, and the only one not just lamenting herself by the water (besides Cloud).
3. Tifa won't take part in any 'trial kind of think' against Cloud, though Sephirot had tried to inflikt doubts between both already with any success.
4. The 'Jenoveic Aerith' question throws its hints in the ex-post scene by the water much more in the blend of Jenova's and Aerith's themes.
I perceive this motive relation instead of the referral to Remake's opening scene. To me this is an entire riddle.
And 5. Aerith is not dead, for sure not in the extent youre claiming, despite all your 'Cloud is delusional' premises and the argumentative of the broken mind.
Guys, the real thing is you are missing the unavoidable spot that brings the steps to the 3rd part. Nothing personal, it is only one elephant in the damn Forgotten Capital's white Altar.
The devil is in the details in any analysis worth its salt. Are welcome to do it whenever it is.
And P.S.: Cloud's delusional, broken mind. Hey, not any intention to shine or something, but the hero's psyche is not the all time artifact. I think is worth defining the nature of the issues concerning Cloud's psyche with ground, also is worth starting by distinguish amnesy from hypnosis and also from manipulation.
And no guys, psychology has not a mechanical projection in this fantasy context, not a direct one. Cloud is not so mentally messed up, on the contrary. He may has been bamboozled, but didn't invent his lifestream journey by infused science.
Therefore he sees the rift at the end, and don't be surprised if the doomed world ends up beeing the party one.
Cloud gives sephy the black materia buster sword and zack gives cloud a clean buster sword and infuses it with the hollow holy materia after it’s filled back up. Then sephy uses the black materia buster sword in the final battle of the game. A battle of the buster swords.
God that would be incredibly dark but would also make Sephiroth an even more sadistic villain lol
At 6:17 was it ever explained how cloud got out? Also I have a crazy theory about how when in chapter 12, cloud tries to sleep but when he does, he’s able to see aerith & Marlene from another perspective of cloud?
What if the cloud we’re playing as isn’t our cloud? What if this cloud is actually from a timeline where he did become a soldier or either died when Zack died because remember the only reason cloud survived was because they saw how messed up he was from the mako, so they decided to leave him alone cuz he would end up dead. but sephiroth managed to take him & bring him over to remake/rebirth time cuz I don’t think when cloud fell into the multiverse, it was not his 1st time there, what if sephiroth brought him there before when he was unconscious.
As how cloud could see aerith & Marlene, during chapter 12? i think cloud is dead because when you go to cosmo canyon, there is an Npc by the round table talking about how their parents are dead but potentially are alive in another reality.
This is an amazing theory, i really hope it will go this way
Insane theory! It's going to be so crazy and brutal if it turns out that way in P3. Thanks for the podcast guys! It was a joy listening to FF7 fans nerd out on the game :)
I'm honestly glad I'm not the only one thinking that the Aerith at the end is a Jenova manipulation. When she said "I'll send up smoke," I immediately thought of Nibelheim.
Hoo boy... Part 3 is gonna hit Cloud harder than Tifa hits a dragon.
My goodness, didn't notice this, what a theory!
Imo
I think Part 3 could come out and just say "y'all were overthinking a lot."
Oh you know for damn sure there's gonna be some cheeky dialogue from a npc and it'll be hilarious
Loved this get together!
I also was under the impression that Cloud did the killing blow in the remake. Ultimately does it change the plot in any way that is relevant from the og? No, its still ultimately Sephiroths doing. But it does tell a better version of that same story.
never forget that in the remake they literally didnt want cloud on the second mission after he complained about invisble shinra things attacking him (the whispers) and almost killing his neighbour during the night. so they have already pushed the whole notion that people wonder if cloud is all there...
It seems this entire game is about what is fact and what is fiction. And I’m not talking about the multiple worlds or multiverse, but also scenes such Dyne being the man with a gun arm shooting people at Gold Saucer instead of Barret, or Red 13 realizing that his father wasn’t actually a coward, also Tifa being dead or alive. It seems this whole game is like that. I know some of this is in the og, but they are definitely expanding it here and I love it!
I think the black whispers made cloud kill aerith but we only saw what the white whispers caused. Perhaps the blood tifa sees is the black whispers world
I'm calling it now that part 3 is going to be called Resurrection. I'm actually very surprised that not a single person has mentioned this title so far.
I think it's going to be called Resurrection for three main reasons:
1) tetsuya nomura when he was thinking about the title for part 2, he mentions that he wanted to come up with a title that was very similar and very reminiscent of the remake title because it conveys a very similar idea of recreating something. There is no reason to think that the RE title for part 3 will diverge from that same concept of coming up with another name that conveys that same theme of recreating something, so in that sense resurrection which means to bring something back to life, is very fitting. So that by the very end of the project they can say that they have successfully remade, rebirthed, and resurrected the final fantasy 7 game.
2) so I think that the title for part 3 is actually hidden inside the game itself, just like the title for rebirth was hidden within the title of the one-winged angel title in part 1 soundtrack. There is a part of the temple of the ancients that is called Hall of Resurrection, and as far as I know, The only other RE word in the entirety of rebirth is reborn for the sephiroth reborn fight, and they definitely are not going to use reborn after having used rebirth.
3) finally I feel like it would be a fantastic title because the very name Resurrection can hold a dual meaning for part 3, wear aside from achieving what nomura wants with remake rebirth and resurrection all having the same kind of theme of recreating something, it also fulfill the role of making people think of Aerith when they hear the title. We all know that's where enix loves to mess around with their audience, so what better way to make people think that she can get resurrected then through the title of the game itself, but in reality, resurrection could just be applied to another form of sephiroth just like he had his sephiroth reborn form in rebirth. Or Resurrection could apply to something else in the game, but the title will serve a dual purpose nonetheless by keeping people talking about whether Resurrection applies to Aerith.
4) I actually have a fourth reason that I just thought of, but mind you that it's a little out there so excuse me if it sounds too far-fetched. So I feel like the title resurrection is a fitting conclusive name so they development of these three titles. Resurrection almost feels like the natural last step in the progressive titling that nomura has been doing. What I mean by progressive titling is that it almost feels like the specific order of Remake, Rebirth, and resurrection would have been chosen for a reason.
Remake would be first because to make something, like a table or a chair, is a beginner's level way of creating something: ie creatingsomething lifeless and inanimate.
Rebirth something would be second because to give birth to something is a higher form of creation, like giving birth to a baby. Something that has a life, a soul.
Resurrection would be the final level of creation because the act of being able to give life to something that is dead is currently technologically and scientifically impossible, but they aspire to be able to achieve that one day.
I think we’re in a simulation of Sephiroth maybe Hojo recovered his dead body. Or Sephiroth’s manipulation via lifestream and tampering with other timeline. Example Barrett’s death and etc. The temple of the ancient isn’t supposed to be up north. It’s supposed to be in the south next to fort condor. No bone village harp hunting for safe passage through the sleeping forest. Enemy Skills doesn’t work the same way. Materia doesn’t split on mastery. No land mass south of Junon. No mystery house with the temple of the ancient key. The beginning of the game Midgar is destroyed and Avalanche is dead with the center of Midgar (Shinra power company headquarter)destroyed. But, Rufus and Hojo flew via helicopter back to an intact Midgar with possibly sector 7 intact. Both headquarter has the red sign of Shinra.
In the end nothing is gonna matter anyways because it’s all going to ultimately end the same as the OG game.
Maybe, maybe not. Ultimania states the developers would like to produce a much happier ending for its characters
@@patrickleblanc613do not confuse 1 dev to developers because that's only Kitase and the rest of the team didn't agree with it. But then again ultimania is all over the place with them saying oh the game still going to follow the same plot points and we didn't realize so many people though that unknown journey people would jump on the Aerith alive situation there's also a mention of one of them wanting the game to end with the ambiguity of Tifa's future if she died or not.
@@patrickleblanc613 happy ending is already there it’s called Advent Children. FFVIIR3 is just gonna have an epilogue and it’ll be a playable FFVIIAC. It’s just all going to end the same it’s not going to be different yes going to A to B will but C will always end the same exact way because it’s a remake.
It’s for sure going to follow the same story beats but the introduction of whispers and multiple worlds led me to believe it’s going to end differently. The whole theme of this remake trilogy is defying fate so for it to end the exact same would be a major let down.
@@HupCapNinja advent children is not a happy ending, it's bittersweet at best. the devs have also said that the OG and AC was the "bad ending" . with the way the story is going with sephiroth and aerith "knowing the future" and playing 4D chess in the background i find it very weird if it all would just end up in the same place but who knows. i personally think they're gonna follow the same story beats with some new additions but the ending for part 3 will ultimately be different.
i told my friend early on they're either going to have cloud attempt to kill aerith and actually doing it OR zack will be here and jump in front of sephiroth'S blade, saving aerith, but then she ends up dying at a different part of the story, like in part 3, since she needs to.
As interesting as this theory is, I think it adds unnecessary layers of convolution to an already convoluted plot. I believe Cloud ACTUALLY deflected Sephiroth's sword successfully. In doing so, he triggered a branching timeline - that timeline inherited the original outcome where Aerith dies (the game demonstrated earlier through Zack that this is how branching timelines work in this story).
The jump cut we see where the blade is suddenly impaling Aerith despite Cloud clearly deflect it - that's a perspective swap to the newly created timeline, not a mind glitch. Notice no green, glitchy filter occurred during that specific transition as it does in the moments following. From there, we see an alternate Cloud who failed to save Aerith coping with her death. This is where the mind glitches kick in.
In one long sequence they split timelines, show us the outcome of both, but hide the outcome of the Cloud who succeeded by mixing it in between the mind glitches of the Cloud who failed. By not explicitly delineating when the perspectives change they intentionally confuse the audience and set things up for a big reveal in the early chapters of the next game. Basically, they've created a situation where they're giving us both outcomes and it doesn't seem that they've done this arbitrarily - I think both of these timelines are going to play a meaningful role in the story and probably end up merging - by that I don't mean literally - I mean more like coming face to face with one another.
That Pod was next level, I've probably watched it twice
The Dood joking about how everything they think of will be wrong is the pinnacle of irony; considering l’m pretty sure this guy has nailed every prediction he’s made.
I have a Better one for you:
Sephiroth can go back in time.
After cloud deflects sephi, Cloud is behind aerith and sephi is far away with his sword straghit on the ground.
However, there is a very distintive boom sound that you usualy hear in movies for slow mo and after that, Cloud is still in the same place he was if he had deflected sephi, but sephi apears behind cloud and his sword is now inclinated diagonal.
So this could mean not only he can go throught timelines but through time it self.
Legends all together in one call 🥹
If cloud did end up killing aerith, I’m gonna lose my effing mind. Makes sense since we didn’t actually see sephiroth’s sword Pierce aerith. Plus before sephiroth showed up we see cloud for some odd reason raise his sword against aerith while she was praying. This is cinema at its finest.
Damn, I didn't realize there was literal BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. That has to be something they are going to do at the Northern Crater.
Holy crap I had no idea that theories can get that dark so I'll leave with this:
You know how Cloud puts the Black Materia into his Buster Sword at the end? I bet this will unlock his Meteorain Limit Break in Part 3, where he, you guessed it, launches meteors at the enemy.
Oh, that would be a great way to introduce the third set in a story sense
My immediate thought when seeing the trailer with Cloud in the robe was that he'd be the one to kill Aerith this time around. I guess we'll see.
Remember the Nomura, aka Mr Kingdom Hearts Man, was holding back the multiverse shenanigans. Let that sink in
I'm willing to bet that in part 3 the protorelic quests will be replaced with a new quest: summoning the knights of the round. you'll find a mysterious red materia and chadley will tell you that it's power must be gathered to be completed. you'll have to track down AND BATTLE each individual knight of the round in order to complete the materia. this will give them a whole new identity in the game other than just some random mage of knight appearing for a second to attack and then fly off the screen and the way the complete summon will work will be just like in the og. the character will do their animation and rather than the summon entering the battlefield for a couple minutes then doing their final attack, kotr will work as it does in the original. the enemy will be frozen in place and the knights will appear 1 by one to cast their judgement on the target. they will all appear at once, surround the target in a circle and attack one at a time, with the final knight being EXTREMELY large and deliver an attack that cuts through the very fabric of reality itself.
Everything is the same from the OG. We're just seeing everything from clouds perspective now. In the OG we never saw what cloud what seeing what was going on in his head but now we see it.
I watched you all live. The three hour nerd out was awesome. I think he is definitely trying to convince Cloud he killed her. It's perfect insurance. My question is did Sephiroth show Tifa the truth, or is she able to see through some of Sephiroth's illusions because she's gained abilities from being inside a Weapon?
As the person who played the OG game more than 20 times, and I know everything about that game, I find it annoying when people refer to the OG game and think the know what the remake is about.
You don't know. Because you don't understand what the OG game was about.
This is not a grand remaster, this is a remake, the story is already completely different, there are so many differences that whatever you think you know based on OG game, is wrong.
It was an amazing 3 hours! Listening to the kings brainstorm was so good!
What if the end of part3(maybe named Return)
Is cloud start becoming Sephiroth himself and you have to mindfight him out of his head for the party to then jump in when he takes another shape, taunting with Arieths shape from time to time?
Just an idea i thought of now...
Wow, never thought of it like this but it is dark and I love it. The current question I sit on however is what is the real endgame? And why is Sephiroth stalking Cloud like a mad ex. Seems kind of out of character for someone seeing himself as a god. Also Sephiroths differences depending on version might also effect the outcome and meaning of it. Really good stuff man!
Something I can't stop thinking about is how the Aerith in the grassy field says she's going to put everything into summoning Holy to stop the Meteor. From what I recall, those are words unspoken to this point in the remake. We as players know that's what the White and Black materia are for, but no one in the remake party knows. Even if you wanted to say that it's the Aerith Prime at the end of time who already knows what they are, Cloud would have no idea what she's saying right there. I think this is evidence that the Aerith we're seeing in that scene is a manipulation, and maybe not just manipulating Cloud, but us the player. Cloud thinks things are fine because his girlfriend is alive, and we the players think things are okay because Aerith is doing the thing it is she did in the original game, but in reality, whatever Jenova or Sephiroth have in store doesn't use Holy and Meteor the same way as the original.
It’s crazy you used the tifa reaction as the thumbnail, my first thought upon seeing her make that face and hearing sephiroth say “the convening of worlds” made me think oh shit it’s not just cloud and sephiroths reality merging, tifa thinks she killed her!
I have to wonder, with how the ending played out, will this cause other scenes to be omitted from part 3? Like the Nibelheim picture reveal?
Speaking of pictures... Don't you think it's odd that the selfie Cloud and Aerith took on the Cosmo Canyon side quest never appeared as a photo in the ending credits? Maybe I'm looking into it too much since it was just a side quest....but it feels like that'll come back as an easter egg or even a plot device at some point.
@@MikeJones__Who I think it's because that quest was purely optional
@@jlbenz Yea...youre probably right. It seems like it could easily be a potential plot device in the future installment...but probably not.
Cloud killing Aerith is the only twist that would put the remake series on par with the OG for me