I've always hated how Marvel treats the ability of the Thing. He'll go toe to toe with the Hulk, then get his ass kicked by some character that the Hulk could obliterate just be sneezing at them.
FF 25 is one of the all time best Marvel Silver age books ever. I have to disagree that 2 is better because the Hulk and Thing don’t really fight as it was just a tease. FF 25-26 is a Kirby masterclass in Super hero battle story telling.
Really liked the comments around the 10:40 mark. Because the ongoing logic of "maybe in a movie, so price go up" is so played out and insipid that there isn't much real credibility left in the hobby as far as buyer authenticity goes. Basically I'm saying that the speculator market has run so rampant for years now that the hobby IS the speculator market. And if you get back to buying what you love, you can't go wrong because you have intrinsic reasons for buying books. Wish we could get back to books popping on the market because of content-driven story reasons because there is a difference between the peasant-thinker-market and markets driven by readership and deep fandom. Those good-old days of some LCS-Napolean-Dynamite saying "Captain America 217? Why would you want THAT?!?" as he scoffs at you. And the only reasonable answer was "I like Quasar, man. Wendell Vaughn is a great character".
That Marvel team up Spider-Man and daredevil 141 might have some legs if it turns out that he does get the black suit and this next movie and daredevil is in it and they get to fight together… just a thought 🤔
There's also a ton more 252's out there than Marvel Team Ups and Spectaculars. The print runs on Amazing far exceed the others. For the record, I'm not taking any sides here, but in an era when people collect newsstands because there are less of them (btw...you couldn't give away newsstands back in the day), it does seem relevant.
That marvel team up 141 is a gem! Ihave 252 & SW 8, I need that Spectacular 90... But im in no rush to get it. It'll be a nice to have. That was a good debate tho
Always thought that the MTU and Spectacular issues WERE tied with 252… now that I know they were not in fact tied, I side with the Guru on this one!! Love those books (especially 141) but they have to be considered 2nd black suit appearance, albeit tied with EACH OTHER!
I forgot about MTU#141 and spectacular Spider-Man #90 until they popped up on the high value wall at the comic shop looked through my collection and found them i was totally focused on #252 and if you guys liked the sony movies good for you the only one that might interest me is kraven.....
I started collecting ASM with #208. I only purchased 252 when it came out (March 85 VFW hall quarterly comic book show). I had to pay for $5 for it. All the local LCS pulled 252 from the shelves and marked them up immediately (I lived in the one of the 3 largest metropolitan areas in the USA). I know you said the term spec didn't exist yet but, the other books were on the shelves. GURU is correct, 252 has been a key since it hit the LCS. The other books have gained traction over the years but they are nothing special compared to a book that immediately got marked up.
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! I have a quick question: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
All three of those books (ASM252, SSM90, and MTU141) were printed with MAY on their covers, and when they are graded, all three slabs say 5/1984 as their published date. Just saying.
I land squarely on Guru's side of the debate but can appreciate the fuzziness: Diamond didn't have When I Lay My Vengeance Upon Thee to my LCS today in time for NCBD. Accordingly, when it does eventually arrive, it will be held on the new release wall, even if it's weeks late. Similarly, The Wizard of Oz is nowhere near the first color film... But with time, many people believe it is. Nuance!
I think hulk battling thing is the better cover than hulk hiding with his back against a wall. I'd like to hear more why that book is a better cover because I don't see it.
Re: Sony movies, i agree wirh the quote from the exec. I saw both M Web and Kraven in theater. Were they awesome? No. Also didn't leave the theater feeling ripped off. They were fine. Not every movie can be a home run masterpiece
Incredible hulk #300's Black Suit cover *pre dates* secret wars 8!! Really don't understand how the market hasn't clocked onto this!! November '84 versus December '84 check it out Tom /Jeff.
The Quad-fecta for me on the Black costume ASM252 MTU141 SW8 and ASM300. Tom's right 😂😅😊 Now SSM90 questionable about relevance to Black costume storyline...but it is the 2nd appearance. That was not on my collecting radar.
Even by my standards, I thought the Kraven movie was horrid.......however, it was still a comic book movie so....I would recommend everyone to go see it.......if the MCU is to evolved properly they need our support....but, they do need to understand they need to put out a quality product.....sure, I'm a Marvel Zombie, but eventually, if they keep releasing stuff like this, even brain dead, I'll consider not going to another movie they produce........granted, I believe Sony was responsible for this terribleness......
Never understood why secret wars 8 was even on the list to begin with. The first black suit is ASM 252. That’s the book to be buying. Not secret wars 8. Lol
Secret Wars 8 is the origin of the black suit. It's less significant than the first appearance and first cover, but some really want the origin story. Especially since this one has been undervalued and is easier/cheaper to get.
I think black suit collectors like me, just want to have the 'Holy Trinity' of all 3. But yes, 252 is the most iconic and homaged cover, of course, its bad azz!!
I think there is speculation that we will see a Secret Wars 8 cover homage on screen. In other words, Peter Parker posed like the Secret Wars 8 cover in a live action movie.
I own ASM 252, Spectacular Spider-Man 90 and MTU 141. I also of course own Secret Wars 8 to complete the first appearances and original of the black symbionts costume. I have to agree with Tom A 252 is first but Spectacular 90 and MTU 141 was the first appearance of the suit in those series and is technically a continuation of ASM 252 as a first appearance of the symbiote. Hell Spectacular 90 and MTU 141 came out the same day and MTU 141 took me so much longer to find and was harder to find anywhere than the othe 3 books
Here’s a fun game: Choose spider man’s most fearsome villains by decade (meaning, their first appearance has to be in that decade. Ex. My first pick is doctor octopus for the 1960s. He appeared in ASM 3 so he’s my first pick of the decade.) 60s- Dr. Octopus 70s- Green Goblin Harry Osborn 80s- Venom 90s- Kaine 2000s- Morlunn 2010s-Superior Spider Man Tell me your picks in the comments! PS Oh and for the 90s I didn’t go for the OBVIOUS ONE because I want you guys to bring something to this poll!😂
Tom's take on Madame Web is so cringe. lol, however his take on the venom symbiote 1st app is spot on. MTU 141 and SSM #90 does not get the proper love.
Madame Web was a travesty... Just stick to the comic plots and origins, the hard work is done for you... and what would be so wrong with older women being shown in marvel movies (same with Agatha) - give us what we fell in love with in the comics...cos every time you step away from the origins, the weaker it becomes (look how good the first Cap movie was with red skull, we should have had a lot more of that)...
I agree. As far as anything is concerned, when a movie is made about a comic, novel, or true story, I'm totally purist. Follow the origin, and you cant go wrong. They need to put comic collectors and readers onto the movie crew and help them write the script, but they don't, I don't get it!!
@Fin-gj2th can't remember which MCU it was, but the vision and Wanda get beaten by two of Thanos' crew. Yet. Hawkeye, widow and cap can beat them fairly easily. Say what?!
The black suit book to own is SW8 hands down outside of being the best cover it’s still the one people want. Team maybe selling for more, but take in the census count imagine if SW8 only had a count of Team up what the price would be.
SONY quote couldn't be more wrong. The movies were on a whole were, Terrible. They did well on Netflix because ppl really want to see these characters on screen but don't want to pay(movies aren't exactly cheap these days) to go watch a shitty movie.
Madam Web is an absolute dumpster fire of a film and deserves all the criticism. The writer was the same who also wrote that terrible power rangers reboot and so its no coincidence that a blatant Product placement shows up in the climax of the movie and in madam webs case is the thing that kills the villain..LAZY. So krispy kreme or pespi doesn't equal a good film..terrible cgi, a lack of motive for anybody to do anything in that film..and sony's arrogance by saying "it did good on netflix"..you know why? BECAUSE NOBODY IS GONNA PAY TO SEE THAT TRASH XD its not rocket science
Blame the MEDIA? LMAO Gaslighting at its finest. Madame Web was absolutely HORRIBLE. Venom, Kraven & Morbius mediocre at BEST. Sony decided to make Spider-Man spin-offs WITHOUT SPIDER-MAN! or a least a strong reference to him. It's like a PBJ sandwich without JELLY! GARBAGE, GARBAGE, GARBAGE.
I never listen to critics thanks to a college cinematography major from long ago. Jas’ Goodowens gave good logical advice for cinema. Happy New Year! Great video, people!!
Without watching the video, I can already answer the question. Yes, people are delusional.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've always hated how Marvel treats the ability of the Thing. He'll go toe to toe with the Hulk, then get his ass kicked by some character that the Hulk could obliterate just be sneezing at them.
Tom enjoyed Madam Web?….Never trust Tom on movie reviews ✔️
haha I love Tom but yes his film takes are abysmal XD smh
You guys are making me feel better about buying so many comics lately.
FF 25 is one of the all time best Marvel Silver age books ever. I have to disagree that 2 is better because the Hulk and Thing don’t really fight as it was just a tease. FF 25-26 is a Kirby masterclass in Super hero battle story telling.
Really liked the comments around the 10:40 mark. Because the ongoing logic of "maybe in a movie, so price go up" is so played out and insipid that there isn't much real credibility left in the hobby as far as buyer authenticity goes. Basically I'm saying that the speculator market has run so rampant for years now that the hobby IS the speculator market. And if you get back to buying what you love, you can't go wrong because you have intrinsic reasons for buying books. Wish we could get back to books popping on the market because of content-driven story reasons because there is a difference between the peasant-thinker-market and markets driven by readership and deep fandom. Those good-old days of some LCS-Napolean-Dynamite saying "Captain America 217? Why would you want THAT?!?" as he scoffs at you. And the only reasonable answer was "I like Quasar, man. Wendell Vaughn is a great character".
Glad to see 252 love, it's a much better cover than Secret Wars 8 anyways!
agree with Tom Spec Spidey 90 and Marv Team Up 141 are big undervalued keys!
Happy new year to you Tom and Jeff. Jesus that fantastic four the thing vs the hulk is one of my favorite stories and covers 😂❤😮
Great vid guys, love the banter!😊
That Marvel team up Spider-Man and daredevil 141 might have some legs if it turns out that he does get the black suit and this next movie and daredevil is in it and they get to fight together… just a thought 🤔
I remember getting AMS 252 on the newsstand for cover price. Those were the days!
There's also a ton more 252's out there than Marvel Team Ups and Spectaculars. The print runs on Amazing far exceed the others. For the record, I'm not taking any sides here, but in an era when people collect newsstands because there are less of them (btw...you couldn't give away newsstands back in the day), it does seem relevant.
Has bro ever seen the Conan movies.. no lines bro arnold has great lines in Conan.." crush your enemies and have there women..!"
The best way to make sure your covered for the Black suit is too have all 4 books. 😅
I have an ASM 252 Newsstand. Bought it raw from LCS who thought it was a 8.5.
Cost me 190 usd.
Got it back from CGC as a 9.6. 🙌🔥
Happy New Year! ASM 252 on top! About time!!!
Fun discussion on the symbiosis appearance you guys !
That marvel team up 141 is a gem! Ihave 252 & SW 8, I need that Spectacular 90... But im in no rush to get it. It'll be a nice to have. That was a good debate tho
Always thought that the MTU and Spectacular issues WERE tied with 252… now that I know they were not in fact tied, I side with the Guru on this one!! Love those books (especially 141) but they have to be considered 2nd black suit appearance, albeit tied with EACH OTHER!
Secret Wars 8 is the origin. Origin issues are important. It's 252, SW8 then everything else.
I forgot about MTU#141 and spectacular Spider-Man #90 until they popped up on the high value wall at the comic shop looked through my collection and found them i was totally focused on #252 and if you guys liked the sony movies good for you the only one that might interest me is kraven.....
I love my asm 252! Its underrated
Sorry Guru I have to agree with Tom when 252 was released, I purchased all 3 at the same time.... Remember spec didn't exist as a term in 1984
I started collecting ASM with #208. I only purchased 252 when it came out (March 85 VFW hall quarterly comic book show). I had to pay for $5 for it. All the local LCS pulled 252 from the shelves and marked them up immediately (I lived in the one of the 3 largest metropolitan areas in the USA). I know you said the term spec didn't exist yet but, the other books were on the shelves. GURU is correct, 252 has been a key since it hit the LCS. The other books have gained traction over the years but they are nothing special compared to a book that immediately got marked up.
@@iceman2796 Sorry you had to pay $5 for it, I remember buying it as a kid off the rack for rrp..
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! I have a quick question: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
Fantastic Four 274 sleeper key. Symbiote early key 🔑
All three of those books (ASM252, SSM90, and MTU141) were printed with MAY on their covers, and when they are graded, all three slabs say 5/1984 as their published date. Just saying.
I am curious to know what Golden Age Guru really thinks about the reliability and accuracy of prices listed in the Key Collector App?
They'll never say.
@stormshadowctf of course not! They are sponsored by them! Lol
I land squarely on Guru's side of the debate but can appreciate the fuzziness: Diamond didn't have When I Lay My Vengeance Upon Thee to my LCS today in time for NCBD. Accordingly, when it does eventually arrive, it will be held on the new release wall, even if it's weeks late. Similarly, The Wizard of Oz is nowhere near the first color film... But with time, many people believe it is. Nuance!
You guys are fun to watch...unlike those Sony movies - but glad you liked 'em.
I own all 3, 252, MTU 141, and PPSS 90😁
I, also, own all 3. bought them off the rack when they came out. ;)
I think hulk battling thing is the better cover than hulk hiding with his back against a wall. I'd like to hear more why that book is a better cover because I don't see it.
spideys legs are so scrunched on that Kraven book.
He wasn't skipping leg day in preparation for his battle with Kraven
Re: Sony movies, i agree wirh the quote from the exec. I saw both M Web and Kraven in theater. Were they awesome? No. Also didn't leave the theater feeling ripped off. They were fine. Not every movie can be a home run masterpiece
I think it’s not Old Man Conan but when Conan its older is King Conan also called Conan the King
Thanks for the great list guys - appreciate it. But Conan fans and collectors are not “meat heads” there Guru buddy. ‘Nuff said 😂. Great video.
Incredible hulk #300's Black Suit cover *pre dates* secret wars 8!! Really don't understand how the market hasn't clocked onto this!! November '84 versus December '84 check it out Tom /Jeff.
252 is the 1st appearance.
The Conan book to get is the first meeting of Belit and Sonja. They havent cast anyone yet, so you know Belit will be in the movie.
Love all the black suits. Sorry missed the IG posts would have love to get in on them. 👍👍
The Quad-fecta for me on the Black costume ASM252 MTU141 SW8 and ASM300. Tom's right 😂😅😊 Now SSM90 questionable about relevance to Black costume storyline...but it is the 2nd appearance. That was not on my collecting radar.
Even by my standards, I thought the Kraven movie was horrid.......however, it was still a comic book movie so....I would recommend everyone to go see it.......if the MCU is to evolved properly they need our support....but, they do need to understand they need to put out a quality product.....sure, I'm a Marvel Zombie, but eventually, if they keep releasing stuff like this, even brain dead, I'll consider not going to another movie they produce........granted, I believe Sony was responsible for this terribleness......
I thought Cap 2nd modern appearance was the Nick fury steranko cover
anyone know were tom gets his campbell merch? the hats and shirts look dope!
Just saw Kraven the Hunter…it was damn good!!
Kraven bombs and the book goes up
......ooooook
Any ASM silver age will do good regardless of a bombed movie, people just love ASM
love the FF cover
Sony: Am I out of touch? ....No it's everyone else who is wrong.
May 1984 to Dec 1984 is what Key Collector says are the release dates
Yes ASM 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Never understood why secret wars 8 was even on the list to begin with. The first black suit is ASM 252. That’s the book to be buying. Not secret wars 8. Lol
Secret Wars 8 is the origin of the black suit. It's less significant than the first appearance and first cover, but some really want the origin story. Especially since this one has been undervalued and is easier/cheaper to get.
I think black suit collectors like me, just want to have the 'Holy Trinity' of all 3. But yes, 252 is the most iconic and homaged cover, of course, its bad azz!!
I think there is speculation that we will see a Secret Wars 8 cover homage on screen. In other words, Peter Parker posed like the Secret Wars 8 cover in a live action movie.
252 always been the better book, even if the face of the kids on the right looks like it's melting 😂
About time for DC comics on the top list! Too much Marvel last year.... best wishes for all CT101 and guests from Mexico City...
I own ASM 252, Spectacular Spider-Man 90 and MTU 141. I also of course own Secret Wars 8 to complete the first appearances and original of the black symbionts costume. I have to agree with Tom A 252 is first but Spectacular 90 and MTU 141 was the first appearance of the suit in those series and is technically a continuation of ASM 252 as a first appearance of the symbiote. Hell Spectacular 90 and MTU 141 came out the same day and MTU 141 took me so much longer to find and was harder to find anywhere than the othe 3 books
Incredible hulk 300 pre dates!! Secret wars 8 for the black suit spiderman!!
The holy Trilogy of the black suit.
I like the Sony movies. I gotta say
I want some of whatever Tony Vinciquerra is smoking
Hell that marvel team up may have hit shelves before the 252 in some places
Secret Wars #8 vs. 252???? Let the battle begin!!!
Butch be messin stuff up😅😅😅
The origin of the black costume ?
Here’s a fun game: Choose spider man’s most fearsome villains by decade (meaning, their first appearance has to be in that decade. Ex. My first pick is doctor octopus for the 1960s. He appeared in ASM 3 so he’s my first pick of the decade.)
60s- Dr. Octopus 70s- Green Goblin Harry Osborn 80s- Venom 90s- Kaine 2000s- Morlunn 2010s-Superior Spider Man
Tell me your picks in the comments!
PS Oh and for the 90s I didn’t go for the OBVIOUS ONE because I want you guys to bring something to this poll!😂
Conan.....but nobody even looks at my conan box at the show.
Tom's take on Madame Web is so cringe. lol, however his take on the venom symbiote 1st app is spot on. MTU 141 and SSM #90 does not get the proper love.
Kraven has a 74% Rotten Tomato audience rating. I like it.
I f***n quit!!! 😂🤣
no Mark Spears???
Madame Web was a travesty... Just stick to the comic plots and origins, the hard work is done for you... and what would be so wrong with older women being shown in marvel movies (same with Agatha) - give us what we fell in love with in the comics...cos every time you step away from the origins, the weaker it becomes (look how good the first Cap movie was with red skull, we should have had a lot more of that)...
I agree. As far as anything is concerned, when a movie is made about a comic, novel, or true story, I'm totally purist. Follow the origin, and you cant go wrong. They need to put comic collectors and readers onto the movie crew and help them write the script, but they don't, I don't get it!!
@Fin-gj2th can't remember which MCU it was, but the vision and Wanda get beaten by two of Thanos' crew. Yet. Hawkeye, widow and cap can beat them fairly easily. Say what?!
141!! It's a key
I appreciate all your comments on those Sony movies but none of those Sony movies are any good kraven was OK but still was not good
10 months?
Why does the west coast say "o-most"...? 😂🤘
Talk about delusional madam Webb was pure garbage and morbius what's an absolute disaster. Need to watch a real movie instead of these CGI garbage
I sent off my big ASM 252, MTU 141, and SSM 90 shipment to CGC recently, ~100 books, and I'm looking forward to seeing how many are 9.8s.
ASM #252 one of my favorite comics 😅
I'm so sick of black and white Spiderman.
Been wanting asm #252 for a long time. Guess I'll continue wanting lol!!
The black suit book to own is SW8 hands down outside of being the best cover it’s still the one people want. Team maybe selling for more, but take in the census count imagine if SW8 only had a count of Team up what the price would be.
SONY quote couldn't be more wrong. The movies were on a whole were, Terrible. They did well on Netflix because ppl really want to see these characters on screen but don't want to pay(movies aren't exactly cheap these days) to go watch a shitty movie.
Madam Web is an absolute dumpster fire of a film and deserves all the criticism. The writer was the same who also wrote that terrible power rangers reboot and so its no coincidence that a blatant Product placement shows up in the climax of the movie and in madam webs case is the thing that kills the villain..LAZY. So krispy kreme or pespi doesn't equal a good film..terrible cgi, a lack of motive for anybody to do anything in that film..and sony's arrogance by saying "it did good on netflix"..you know why? BECAUSE NOBODY IS GONNA PAY TO SEE THAT TRASH XD its not rocket science
Sony CEO delusional
Those movies are bad. Nuff Said.
W video
Jason sucked as conan bit lobo hell yeah
You have to be special to spend that much loot for deteriorating news paper.
THE NEW NINTENDO SWITCH DUO 2-22-25 W SUPER MARIO LEGACY WORLDS
Blame the MEDIA? LMAO Gaslighting at its finest. Madame Web was absolutely HORRIBLE. Venom, Kraven & Morbius mediocre at BEST. Sony decided to make Spider-Man spin-offs WITHOUT SPIDER-MAN! or a least a strong reference to him. It's like a PBJ sandwich without JELLY! GARBAGE, GARBAGE, GARBAGE.
Cmon those movies were horrible.
He's right. The critics and media (including you guys about certain movies) never gave them a chance.
They are all hot trash
I enjoyed venom so there's that
No, they where terrible films. Venom rule and new Superman movie is going suck
I never listen to critics thanks to a college cinematography major from long ago. Jas’ Goodowens gave good logical advice for cinema. Happy New Year! Great video, people!!
mtu 141
🤘🤘
Fantastic 4 another flop
Hi
First