Great essay. Part 2 perfectly backs this up with the "I would do it all over again" line. As long as his family is safe, Joel doesn't care about the consequences of his actions
I was about 14 when this game came out. 10 years later the themes and amazing characters still stick with me. The emotional impact of it has only grown more profound as I’ve aged.
Having Nolan North portray David was such a good choice, and weirdly ironic considering he portrayed Nathan Drake as well, the luckiest character in fiction.
Just finished part 2 again last night. The themes of this game have genuinely changed my life. I would love to see a deconstruction of villainy on Isaac, and maybe some videos on the WLF and Abby as a character. You’ve quickly become one of my favorite channels. Keep it up!!
If you want his content early, go to the Last of Us subreddit. Oh, he doesn't post there early. He just steals posts and tries to pass it off as his own stuff. That's how these videos get made.
I actually hated it when I first beat it because I was going through a lot mentally at the time. Now I would probably say that it changed my perspective on humanity, made me a more empathetic person, and sparked my interest in psychology. It’s also probably my favorite game of all time.
This theme is extremely similar with that of Robert Sapolsky's "Biology of Human Behavior" which basically says that we as humans don't have free will, we are sum of our hormonal, physiological, sociological factors. This particular video shined a new light to the theme to me, thx again, Brett, always a pleasure to listen to your essays!
This intrigues me. I would argue that perhaps our free will is the sum of our hormonal, physiological and sociological factors? Not necessarily because I believe it or because I don’t but rather to spurn on thought to come to a conclusion that fits each individual
I used to think sometimes when I was a teenager, that to some extent nobody is really at fault for their actions, and now in my 20s I just think about it even more. Because at the end of the day we cannot choose our genetics, our personalities, our parents, where we are born, etc. And _all_ of those things influence who we are, what we do and say to other people, and how we view the world. Glad it wasn't just some weird unrealistic viewpoint I conjured up. It really is just a luck of the draw what kind of person you turn out to be. We think we have free will, but we are more like computer programs. Running code that is written by these factors and how they affect us, and our experiences as we live our lives. Every word someone chooses to say is indirectly linked to things as seemingly mundane as what town they grew up in.
At 6:54 you can see Ellie’s subtle expression change when David reveals that he knows that Joel and Ellie was in the Colorado college… a chilling detail that the animators perfectly captured
This is one of your best video essays and now one of my favorites. The comparison of fate and destiny between GoW and TLOU was great. Also, the use of the Norns to compare Joel’s ‘destiny’ to GoW’s prophecies really cemented the whole essay as a banger.
When you talking about Ellie using the word luck, I think she was getting that from Joel. Joel at several times has mentioned how lucky they have been. At the end of the section with Tommy Joel mentions how many close calls they have had and Ellie menitons that they have been doing alright so far. After that Ellie emulates Joel to David saying that they got lucky. When David disagreed he was disagreeing with Joel through Ellie, that there is no such thing as luck.
At first, when I first saw the story of last of us, I was like "She should have the right to choose, and try" ... But honestly? I think even if the fireflies win, they lose. The game never shows us anything about what kind theory they have. If they can actually discover a vaccine let alone manufacture it. I honestly think once other factions hear of the most important knowledge ever; they would immediately try to take control of it. Either to safeguard it, or to capitalize off it. I think the fireflies would be fighting wars on every front, and, struggling with resources and manpower to actually make the vaccine in any appreciably amount, all at once. She'd basically still die for nothing. -- This was a great video, I really liked it.
Exactly a thing people can forget At that point, that was bassically the last base they had In the 2nd game the Fireflies are gone. because Joel wiped them out If that one location was all they had. No way were they getting that cure out to everyone. Joel. In 1 night. completely wiped them out. Which is why Abbey and the like hate him so much. To their eyes, he killed the glorious rebel cause, and killed the only scientist who could have fixed it. But in reality. If one dude could take them All out in like, an hour. They weren't going to last long anyways. So even IF they could get the cure, which is a Big IF from their resources. Their ability to spread it out to the world.... Not happening. They wouldn't even be able to mass produce it. At BEST It would ended up a recruiting thing. They're able to produce some amount of vaccine, and basically put it as 'join us and get the vaccine'. Even if they WANT to spread it. They don't have the resources to do it
Whenever I see someone bring up the tired argument about how the fireflies were doomed to fail and would not be able to make a vaccine for contrived reasons even though the story's themes pretty explicitly depend upon the duality of Joel's decision and the implication of its outcomes (and it was stated by the writers that the Fireflies absolutely could have at the very least made a viable vaccine), I usually roll my eyes before moving on because 99% of the time it immediately devolves into hateposting about part II but this is probably one of very few instances where I've seen someone make interesting points about the potential struggle behind **using** the vaccine and not just handwaving it as impossible to produce in the first place, because honestly the conversation behind getting the vaccine distribution off the ground and the effect it would have on post apocalypse power dynamics between the few substantial groups of humanity left alive have pretty interesting story implications and is something I hope will be explored in future entries at least in some capacity. One caveat, though, is I still take issue with the "Ellie would still die for nothing" statement. Think about it. If that's really the conclusion you need to resolve the moral dilemma of Joel's decision then in my opinion you are severely depriving yourself the chance to critically engage with the story and its conclusion in a holistic way. The entire crux of that final decision rests on there being real consequences behind either outcome. It's meant to embody the themes of hope and hopelessness. In the case of Joel choosing to save Ellie there is the hope that her life and what its preservation represents--a humanity first approach to the rebuilding of society and the world, one that uses the intimate and meaningful interpersonal struggles of those who care for and about each other to embody the themes of burgeoning hope and placing our faith in our will to survive and live in ourselves and each other--will go on to be a small yet meaningful piece in the overall tapestry of renewal and rebirth for the human race and society at large, such that her immunity itself will not even have to be a necessary step in the process. At the same time there is a dark and melancholy hollowness that undercuts this choice. How many people did Joel's decision potentially touch or even inadvertently cut short the lives of? What if Ellie were to randomly die on the way back to Jackson? (something we know all too well had a very high chance of happening in a world like this). What if Ellie didn't believe Joel's lie and ditched him at the first opportunity to go look for the remaining fireflies herself, making his decision pointless? What if the ending had played out slightly differently and Ellie woke up before Joel escaped-during the confrontation with Marlene, perhaps? We probably would have seen a deeply betrayed and anguished Ellie telling Joel to leave her with Marlene and never come back. People are very quick to pile on the hypotheticals when it comes to justifying the morality of Joel's decision but rarely consider the many hypotheticals of the inverse. Which brings us to the themes of the other choice (one which we, unfortunately, can only speculate on, but I digress): Joel leaving Ellie with the Fireflies. In contrast to the very human, interpersonal, and emotional hope yet solemn grimness that the canon ending carries, this outcome's brand of hope, while more detached and esoteric, I think would feel much further reaching and have stronger implications for the immediate future than the canon ending. As opposed to the more granular renewal of society that Joel's decision (and by extension, Ellie's life in Jackson) to take a chance on people's love for each other and desire to live for that love rather than prioritizing more utilitarian goals as symbolized through his sacrifice of a vaccine in exchange for Ellie's life, this ending would be more of a "shock to the system", so to speak. While less grounded in emotional and interpersonal meaning, the overall transformation of society would get a jumpstart with the distribution of immunity to the infection. The hope this would bring is more existential than interpersonal and its effects would be substantially farther reaching in a much shorter time period. Humanity would begin to stir again after decades of increasingly deepening silence across the globe. Of course, this side of the coin is not all sunshine and rainbows either. Far from it, in fact. There is a substantial risk/reward gamble at play here, and many ways this could go wrong or create bad situations. What if a malicious faction seized control of the vaccine, for instance? Offering it to select groups perhaps, maybe gatekeeping it behind slavery or indentured servitude, maybe even keeping some people unvaccinated and then intentionally infecting them before releasing them into a rival population as a form of biological warfare that would pose no risk to them because they're immune? I think there truly is a wealth of discussion and speculation to be had about this games' ending when you realize that both the themes of hopefulness and hopelessness can exist in both outcomes and there are valid arguments for both of them. It's understandable and expected for people to be biased towards what they're familiar with and attached to, but it's also necessary to do our best to sometimes step outside of our biases and view things from different angles. It's easy to say Joel was justified and the fireflies were doomed to fail anyway because we have only seen the story play out one way and only through Joel and Ellie's eyes. It's easy to claim the fireflies had "unrealistic" chances of success but if you're going to apply the realism argument, you shouldn't stop at what it implies for the fireflies. If we're being honest, realism would've ensured Joel and Tess never even made it to Robert (they were heavily outnumbered and outgunned), let alone crossed paths with Marlene and subsequently Ellie. Anyway, I'll end this super long comment here. Hopefully I managed to get someone to think a bit more critically about this.
If you wanna be technical, no the fireflies could not make a vaccine But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have done something so similar that it doesn’t matter. The best thing to do would be to make a powerful antifungal medication made using a strain of cordyscepts. In fact a similar medication already exists. In the end that’s irrelevant. What is relevant is could the fireflies have made a cure or vaccine? No. Because Joel killed them.
@@ultimaweapon991 The only thing we see the Fireflies do is fail. They lose every fight, they lose every outpost, and their whole operation was wiped out by one middle aged man. The Fireflies are objectively incompetent according to all in game evidence.
Man this guy is him, because of all of his analysis videos I have learned so much on writing techniques and depth in detail about the last of us, learning and listening to what you have to say has been so helpful for me to learn so thanks so much man, you have no idea how much I'm enjoying these videos.
To Marlene and Joel "maybe it was meant to be" has a completely different meaning. Marlene thinks Ellie's arrival was fate because she is destined to restore humanity, but to Joel it feels like fate because of how Ellie appeared out of nowhere and changed his life.
Oh, I absolutely second this. I've never been the hugest fan of Rockstar; like, their games are fun, but their stories are hilariously straightforward and predictable. Despite that, Arthur Morgan is somehow one of the best written characters in all of video gaming, I absolutely adore him. Red Dead 2 in general is just such a fantastic game.
@@BlazingGlaceonthat game is bloated, unfocused, poorly designed from a mechanics standpoint, the story is terribly paced, there characters are dumb, and the best aspects of Arthur’s character happens off screen and is only talked about. He’s a pretty dumb character given the background of what we’re told about the gang and the past. But yeah throw in a lot of loosely proper periodic grammar and people automatically think the writing is profound. Elden Ring is written in a more Shakespearean style, but no one sucks that game off for its writing. That’s partly because story in Elden Ring isn’t too important to enjoy it, but people also don’t because the fanbase isn’t as toxic and widespread. Cockstar can slap their logo onto the shittiest product and there will still be defendants so long as they threw enough money into it for features that existed 15 years ago but hey look they got a new coat of paint, and that coat of paint means it’s good. Graphics = good, that’s the retarded reasoning and double standard in their favour. If GTA Trilogy The Definitive Edition had good enough graphics, like say they ported over content but using the GTA 5 engine, but it was just as buggy and lazy in terms of actual polish and refinement, then people would defend it way more and give them a pass.
You really are cranking out the last of us videos. Great Job! Joel does what his heart desires and not what the world wants him to do. we do not know if Ellie dying in that hospital would actually give us a cure or even if it will get the world back to once it was, but too joel, he saw his goal and he got what he knew was right.
I agree save ellie let ellie find other way make cure for everyone without her giving up her life to do so .what joel wanted do for ellie .but took ellie while to finally understand joel did right thing and give other shot to fulfill her dream save people but in duffent way .
If the cure wasn’t guaranteed to work, it eliminates the depth of Joel’s decision, his characterization of being selfish and uncaring to others, outside of those he trusts.
I felt this video. Currently on a journey. I'm always a brooding stoic type. Usually very pessimistic about things. But I'm trying to be a better person. To be more happy. But i always see myself reverting back to the same old me. Will i ever get to a new better me? Maybe not, but i do have HOPE. Great video.
@MrMaurice1124 I wish you good fortune in your journey to come. And, if I may, a small piece of advice/a small observation - to find yourself slipping back into old ways when trying to change them is proof of how you’re aware of your old ways, which is a crucial step in changing them. We all on this planet strive for change, but without recognising our lapses will never push ourselves forwards towards this change.
I also think that Ellie starting to refer to destiny after her encounter with David shows how much of an impact he had on her. She incorporate the possibility of a 'fate' just because he MENTIONS it in one conversation. It must have scarred her deeply and it may have worsen after Joel's death because what are the odds of Abby's group running so perfectly into Joel and Tommy? I love your videos so so so much. You make great analysis and I'm learning su much about character development and depth. Keep up the amazing work! I'll be waiting for your next video!
Hey Brett, fantastic essay as always! I do have one thing I want to point out: your conclusion is that Joel is ultimately a slave to fate. I mostly agree with this conclusion: as you said: Joel ultimately makes the same decision at the end of the game as he did in the beginning of the game. If we take out the fact that this is a fictional, written story, we could conclude that Joel's decisions were always going to lead to the Fireflies at the end of the game, were always going to lead to him being spared from the Fireflies, and then go on a rampage as he learns about Ellie's fate, her being operated on and dying for the sake of the vaccine. I would make the argument though that Joel's decision may not have been breaking HIS fate, it might not have even broken humanity's fate, but I would argue that it changes Ellie's fate. Remember at the very end when Marlene told Joel he was free to go? To me that's saying that he was always walking out of there alive, since we know he also ended up walking away after his final confrontation with the Fireflies. I believe that Joel's fate in the story was always going to be surviving. Not so for Ellie. Throughout the game, Ellie's fate is to die. If Joel had done nothing, Ellie would never have survived. Ellie's fate was certain at the beginning of the game, whether or not we realized it. I have little doubt the Fireflies always knew that Ellie would never survive the procedure, and if it wasn't for everybody's involvement Ellie would have never survived period. She would have either died in Boston, in the mall (both times) or outside with Joel, Ellie only survived so long because of other's decisions, until Winter when she was the one making the decisions, and then Spring where the decisions were taken away from her again. If Ellie's fate was always to die, then Joel's fate broke that fate because it was every decision, and the sum of those decisions, that ended up keeping Ellie alive. Wouldn't it then be plausible to say that in a way, Joel's and Ellie's fates are diametrically opposed? Ellie will always be, or put herself into, mortal danger which she cannot escape from alone. On the other side, Joel will always survive, and he will always protect his daughter. These two being together is why Ellie survives, it's the only reason why Ellie can survive. Therefore: Ellie's fate to die is ultimately broken because of Joel's, because it's Joel's fate to never let his family die, whatever fate that family might have.
If you think about it, GOW fate looks massive and looming but it’s really a stand alone complex of everyone doing what is in their nature to do. It just looks like someone is pulling the strings. Mind blown?
Could we have a Doom video someday? I think that the Doomguy is interesting. Or maybe one about the villains, I think Doom has so much and deserves a great video of yours someday.
I adore David's performance in the game and show. Listening to him talk, you can hear the subtext to what he's saying: "everything happens for a reason, and God brought you to me, so obviously God is rewarding me because I really wanted to kill you and Joel, and now I get to." People like him think they're entitled to whatever they want because they're a devout follower of God and that therefore means they're owed the rewards that good followers are due. It's a perversion of the idea of karma, I believe, and is unsettlingly common in the modern day. I think that's what drives the audience's interest in David, he's real and we can't look away.
These video essays are incredibly well done, and your arguments are well thought out and persuasive. Started with the FEDRA video, and I’ve enjoyed the rest of TLOU essays - looking forward to more, both on TLOU and other games :)
Very well done, thank you. It seems implied in the concept of fate that we are who we are (like train tracks) and it is immutable, but I don't think that's entirely fair. As noted to Kratos, we are who we are because of our CONSISTENT CHOICES to that end, but SOME OF US can consciously change and make different choices -- breaking the cycle, following a different "program", as it were. Joel didn't like Ellie from the start, but the 2 grew together, and while Joel had descended to the level of survival, to the level of animal (as many of us do) he had become that nihilistic fate machine that is critiqued here BUT Joel learned, and grew, and made different choices. Ellie is Joel's redemption arc, from the "Hero's Journey". Sarah's death had shattered him, and his wound scarred over as a survivor, to the level of animal, or machine. But it was caring for Ellie that renewed Joel's soul. And while he did murder his way through that hospital, that was because they were about to murder Ellie, whom he had grown to love and had given him a reason for living again, given him his soul back -- in effect, murdering him as well. To wit, the Fireflies drugged Ellie AGAINST HER WILL and would have KNOWINGLY MURDERED HER, even knowing the unbelievably low chances of success of a vaccine (even with OUR CURRECT TECH it takes 10-15years to create a vaccine AND at that, 90-95% fail... this was a LONG SHOT OF LONG SHOTS, desperation, really, and Abby's Father knew this AND WAS COMPLICIT). I'd also like to add that in the zoo, Joel was ready to cash out and go back to Tommy's. He said as much to Ellie, BUT IT WAS ELLIE'S SEARCH FOR MEANING that had them press on, and ultimately lead to Joel's death, Tommy's disabling, and Ellie's "revenge". Hindsight being what it is, but what was clearly Joel's instinct at the time was the smart play: count yourselves lucky you survived, enjoy the OASIS that Tommy and Maria built, live out your days in relative peace there, and maybe find love and build a family -- heck that's biologically probably the solution to the fungus problem in this universe, as likely Ellie's kids would be immune, and go on to spread THEIR immunity further!
I love your essays on TLOU and GoW. I haven't played either game, but I've watched multiple people on YT play both TLOU games and I've watched the show. I love the depth that you bring to the story. I'm looking forward to your future essays. I know almost nothing about FF, but I'll probably watch those videos too. I've been lurking on your channel for quite a while but this essay made me comment. Keep up the great work!
I think the “if the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again” was Joel’s way of saying he did freely choose to fulfil his destiny, though his destiny was not what everyone and everything in the Last of Us game was designed to point to. His destiny was not to cure mankind, but to protect the innocent girl he grew to see as his daughter.
If I had a nickel for every game franchise involving a gruff fatherly figure and his child breaking fate, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice!
I also believe David's belief in destiny is supposed to be an exact opposite of joel, who David is supposed to be a dark reversal of Ellie says they got lucky because way earlier in the game its one of the things Joel says to her for how they survived through the subway and FEDRA, Joel says "Its called luck. And it will run out." Followed by Tess before dying is "Our luck had to run out sometime " Joel and Ellie believe in luck, Joel didnt get killed when sarah did, he kept surviving situations he probably believes he shouldn't. But david believes he survived everything alongside Ellie is because of destiny. He thinks they were never going to die because destiny needed him to kill joel and take ellie
i would like to point out that joel mentions luck in the very beginning almost planting a seed, but very subtle and he says "its gonna run out". Ellie in turn mentions luck in that scene just as joel did
The norns knew what they were doing. By telling Kratos that Atreus would be killed, they knew the God killer would take decisive action, and “do what he does best”.
Brett, i look forward to anything you do. Its not so much the games your examining that I'm watching your content for, as much as i just like to hear YOUR OPINIONS, YOUR BREAKDOWNS, by nature of it being YOU, I basically want to watch it. I can't really even explain why or when that happened, but its frankly how I feel about your content.
In part 2, Ellie's journal entries about faith and her last conversation with Joel build on this theme. And this is one of the most central themes of the whole story, I am excited to see how part 3 will explore it
Your video was awesome as always but since you brought up the Norns, maybe for another God of War video you could talk about their manipulation of destiny. They talk about how Freya's choices lead to Buldur's death but she made those choices because of them. Also, they straight up lied to Kratos when they said he would die, or giants can prophesy better than the damn Norns but I'm inclined to believe the former. This must mean that Odin's and Asgard's downfall is what the Norns wanted to happen.
"part 2" is a pile of garbage by incompetent writers. Constant contrivances to force the plot forward at any cost. You fix any of them, the whole thing crashes to the ground.
i think its a testament of how groundbreaking and powerful this game and its story is considering that so many years later people are making multiple video essays about it without them being padded or stretched thin at all
pleaseeee more last of us videos and maybe some red dead 2? i love the way you construct your videos, theyre my favorite type of content on youtube. i enjoy your in depth views on things ive never even noticed in games i play several times
I would say fate is etched within us. Our nature, our programming. When we are threatened with loss of something we hold dear, it is a natural response to fight and preserve it. Fear of pain, loss, and meaninglessness guide our choices. I think a person who has broken fate is a person that is able to act independently of these stimuli.
After watching this i noticed how similar Ellie's Journey in Part 2 is ! She's now the One who brings most Deaths by herself just to get to the Point of getting Revenge, but in the End she realizes that it MAYBE wasn't her Destiny
Amazing, the part regarding fate and destiny reminded me of Eren Jaeger in Attack on Titan. "He is a slave to fate because he is a slave to himself" Eren is a slave to freedom thats why he still did what he needed to do, fulfilling his memories of the future
13:07 oh shit I think it's about meaning a big theme in last of us is why bother surviving if it has no meaning but she wants fate to be real because now it all has meaning, Elie just wants her life and pain to mean something
I swear, every time the discussion of destiny and where's the paths of the characters are supposed to go in the story, and whether or not the final destination is determined always reminds me of the one above all from marvel. This is supposedly has something like this as well for under a different name. Especially since that's basically what's happening with the ones above all for this video game. Now before anybody says anything, give him what the one above all is supposed to be a stand-in for, technically every franchise, every piece of media out there has a one above all. Every book, video game, TV show, movie, etc etc has a one above all because it had a creator that had to write a script. That's just one person who can be considered the one or ones above all, never mind the directors and producers. Now for those of you who are not familiar with the concept of the one above all, he is like the ultimate high beam. He is the God above everything. Literally the one above it all. In the marvel universe this person is an actual character. But this character is really just meant to be a stand-in for the actual writers and creators of the comic books. Kind of like allowing them away to engage with their characters without just straight up writing themselves into the damn story. Which kind of depending on the circumstance of the story they will do that. But more often than not they are usually not known as the creators or the one above all when they just straight up write themselves in. They're just the writers. And usually the only ones they can engage with are the ones who can break the fourth wall. So say I'm a writer writes himself in it, they're at least likely to really write themselves speaking with Captain America and more likely to write themselves speaking with deadpool. Or Gwenpool. But if for some reason they wanted to sit down and have a chat with spider-man, then they're going to write themselves as the one above all. But it won't be said or mentioned that they're the one above all. Just hinted at typically. And nowadays ever since I've discovered this concept, I cannot hear a discussion about destiny when it comes to any sort of media, the discussion of where a path is going, the discussion about changing said destiny and not think of what is really truly being plan by the original creators. Because they are the ones who created this destiny. They are the ones who leave them to their final destination. They're the ones above all guiding it all. And as far as I know, although marvel & DC are the only ones who have written their creators as actual characters into their stories, every franchise in my eyes has a one above all. If they had a creator, or creators, it has a one or the ones above all. And when we look at it from that lens, everything, every single little thing they did in that game was predetermined. Was predestined. The only things that weren't 100% destiny is how many steps do it take, how many people you would have killed, and how much supplies do you would have passed by because that's going to depend on the individual and their playthrough. Alternative playthroughs this makes things really interesting because in my eyes you can almost look at this as alternative variant timelines where things went differently. Like somebody who died multiple times in their play through. Those could have been multiple variant timelines where Joel or Ellie die. Now there are no multiple timelines or a multiverse in the last of us universe. This is just my little personal head Canon with video games and death just to make it more fun and interesting for myself. At 10:30 everything is created and predetermined by the creators or the ones above all. But things can always be slightly different due to who's playing and how to play through turns out. With multiple different variant timelines.oh very very similar damn near exactly the same with the exception of one slight change. Maybe a player went to the left or the right. Maybe that one player checked that one closet for extra supplies. Again I just do this on purpose cuz I think it's interesting to think about it and it makes video games are really any service menu for that matter of fact more interesting to me and make me want to think about it more. But at the same time it makes the discussion of Faith impossible for me. As it feels like it will always be predetermined even when it seems like it's broken by its characters. Because the ones above are the ones who made that decision and made the final decisions. Even if you're talking about a video game say like The telltale games or Detroit become human where there are multiple endings in multiple decisions to change the outcome of the story, predetermined possibilities by the creator. It feels to me like in some way former fashion faith will always be pretty determined for a character. Just a player can sometimes have the final say of what truly happens. Which direction they go down. What decisions will be made or vetoed. But no matter what at the end of the day, the decisions of the characters, the final destination, the fate of those characters in the face of our experience as players will always be predetermined to a degree. Even if you could never completely be predicted accurately. Or a creator doesn't know what the final destination will be until they get there. Though we usually come in very late. In a sense of like we literally don't get there until we play the game. Or any other sort of media until we read the book or watch the movie. I feel like this question of faith can get even more interesting when an ending is led up to interpretation rather than truly saying what happens. Because again, I feel like that face is always predetermined by the creators. So it becomes easier to discuss when it's left ambiguous at the end. Whereas if you just straight up know what happens to them, that fate was always predetermined in my eyes. Even if there was another possibility. Possibilities was not open because it's not one of those games where you can change the outcome of the story. As if they were always predetermined to make these primary story decisions.
I personally believe that Kratos didn't break his fate because he's a god and changed, I believe his true fate wasn't necessarily a god killer like the norns preached, but just an extremely passionate family man and a father. All of Kratos' actions throughout the entire series has always been driven by family in one way or another, it just so happened that violence, the action he was taught and brought up around since birth, happened to be the best solution to protecting or avenging his family, or so he thought. I think Kratos surviving and changing wasn't necessarily breaking his violent fate and nature, but more so proving that his true nature had always been family related, and that he would do anything, even change his usual way of solving problems violently, to retain his family. The nature of being a god killer was solely the outside that everyone saw, an unfortunate end result of how Kratos decided to protect or avenge his family. Love this video so much, have always thought about how both Kratos and Joel approach fate/destiny so seeing an indepth video like this really helped put my thoughts in order and showed me a different perspective
Dude I just read a book that described luck in the same way god of war did!!! Bad luck vs good luck, neither are something that will happen at random. Both are brought to passing after putting oneself in position to have either. For example, if I work continuously at bettering myself, associating with positive people, becoming aware of the world, of my own self. After all this I meet the perfect person, it’s not luck that brought that person to me, it’s the constant deliberate actions I took to have a better life!!! Same with bad luck, if I put myself in a position of doing bad and something “unlucky” happens, it’s just that road that I put myself on.
i actually like the idea of GOW:R's idea of fate on TLOU. Because Joel cannot accept the idea of someone that wants to harm Ellie still breathing, he will always kill the surgeon and Marline. And because humans thirst for revenge when they have a opposable cause for a loved one's death, he dies to the manhunt of the group at the begining of TLOU2. And because Ellie and Tommy are also humans that thirsts for that same revenge, all but Abby of that group also end up dying to them. And because they heard that fireflies were still alive at some place, they would fall int he trap of whoever it was that caught them at the end. And that's where the breaking of fate comes in: during the theatre fight, Abby has Ellie's girlfriend at knife point. She has every opportunity to kill her, and every reason, too, since at that point pretty much all her friends are dead, including the pregnant one. What causes a different choice than "kill for revenge" is the kid that she rescued from the other people. She wanted to set a better example for him, and decided to let them both live. And it's because Ellie was still alive after the theatre fight that she could come to rescue them, even if the original intent was still to kill her. And it's because she made a different choice for the sake of someone innocent, that she showed that a different choice, mercy, was possible. And that's why Ellie ultimately decided to let them leave. To put it simply, TLOU 2 also says "For the sake of our children, we must be better.", just not directly.
i think the thing that is so interesting about david bringing up fate as well is that it's NOT fate at all that ellie and joel specifically ended up near david's town. david's people are the ones that nearly killed joel, causing them to hole up in a nearby neighborhood, and ellie to come wandering around for food and medicine. it's NOT fate that the man who killed david's men was joel; joel and ellie have been in the same area the whole time. idk, i just think that adds to the whole idea of fate kind of being bullshit in the last of us, because if you give it even a little bit of thought, it's not even 'fate' to begin with. it's just, like. cause and effect.
Bit on the David fate speech. Call me Captain obvious here but was David’s speech meant to be ironic? As in fate led David to the “victim” that would be his final undoing? Edit Ellie says exactly this when she breaks his finger.
This makes me think about part 2. A lot of people I talk to, including myself, say and wish that Abby paid for her actions. Ellie should have killed Abby. And if she did, Lev would’ve killed Ellie. The cycle would’ve continued. But it didn’t. There was always a choice to end the cycle. Ellie could have killed Abby *and* Lev, and that would’ve ended the cycle. That choice would’ve been in Ellie’s nature. One could argue that perhaps that should’ve been her destiny. Ellie did not make that choice, however. Ellie chose to spare Abby and Lev. The cycle still ended. This thought process can still be discussed, many could argue which choice was truly fate, but I think Ellie stopped being a slave to fate when she stopped being a slave to her choices.
The story is expertly crafted to make u doubt your own morals and ideals. The world, settings, character motivations, factions, the sheer amount of violence and the depravity thar humanity has devolved into show how desperately the world needs this cure. However, thru joels character development, it shows how none of that matters and you might drop everything u believe in for someone you love.
Great essay. Part 2 perfectly backs this up with the "I would do it all over again" line. As long as his family is safe, Joel doesn't care about the consequences of his actions
youtube videos and presentations arent essays
@@nomercyinc6783I mean, this type of video is basically just an essay that is read aloud if you think about it
@@nomercyinc6783 whatever 🙄
Video essay such as a video log, but we're not about to call it a Vlessay are we?
Which is why Joel is a dirt bag.
I was about 14 when this game came out. 10 years later the themes and amazing characters still stick with me. The emotional impact of it has only grown more profound as I’ve aged.
Having Nolan North portray David was such a good choice, and weirdly ironic considering he portrayed Nathan Drake as well, the luckiest character in fiction.
It's all Joel-ver
No
No
No
Yes
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! .... *Y E S!*
literally just finished the video on FEDRA and immediately clicked this vid. Love your commentary, it’s always so well written
Agreed, if you like his videos, I'm sure you would love "Mauler"
Babe wake up. New last of us video essay
Just finished part 2 again last night. The themes of this game have genuinely changed my life. I would love to see a deconstruction of villainy on Isaac, and maybe some videos on the WLF and Abby as a character. You’ve quickly become one of my favorite channels. Keep it up!!
If you want his content early, go to the Last of Us subreddit.
Oh, he doesn't post there early. He just steals posts and tries to pass it off as his own stuff. That's how these videos get made.
I actually hated it when I first beat it because I was going through a lot mentally at the time. Now I would probably say that it changed my perspective on humanity, made me a more empathetic person, and sparked my interest in psychology. It’s also probably my favorite game of all time.
@@crazyinsane500 ok redditard
cant imagine how skewed your worldview has become by this type of jewish slop
This theme is extremely similar with that of Robert Sapolsky's "Biology of Human Behavior" which basically says that we as humans don't have free will, we are sum of our hormonal, physiological, sociological factors. This particular video shined a new light to the theme to me, thx again, Brett, always a pleasure to listen to your essays!
This intrigues me.
I would argue that perhaps our free will is the sum of our hormonal, physiological and sociological factors?
Not necessarily because I believe it or because I don’t but rather to spurn on thought to come to a conclusion that fits each individual
I used to think sometimes when I was a teenager, that to some extent nobody is really at fault for their actions, and now in my 20s I just think about it even more. Because at the end of the day we cannot choose our genetics, our personalities, our parents, where we are born, etc. And _all_ of those things influence who we are, what we do and say to other people, and how we view the world. Glad it wasn't just some weird unrealistic viewpoint I conjured up.
It really is just a luck of the draw what kind of person you turn out to be. We think we have free will, but we are more like computer programs. Running code that is written by these factors and how they affect us, and our experiences as we live our lives. Every word someone chooses to say is indirectly linked to things as seemingly mundane as what town they grew up in.
At 6:54 you can see Ellie’s subtle expression change when David reveals that he knows that Joel and Ellie was in the Colorado college… a chilling detail that the animators perfectly captured
This is one of your best video essays and now one of my favorites. The comparison of fate and destiny between GoW and TLOU was great. Also, the use of the Norns to compare Joel’s ‘destiny’ to GoW’s prophecies really cemented the whole essay as a banger.
When you talking about Ellie using the word luck, I think she was getting that from Joel. Joel at several times has mentioned how lucky they have been. At the end of the section with Tommy Joel mentions how many close calls they have had and Ellie menitons that they have been doing alright so far. After that Ellie emulates Joel to David saying that they got lucky. When David disagreed he was disagreeing with Joel through Ellie, that there is no such thing as luck.
At first, when I first saw the story of last of us, I was like "She should have the right to choose, and try" ... But honestly? I think even if the fireflies win, they lose. The game never shows us anything about what kind theory they have. If they can actually discover a vaccine let alone manufacture it. I honestly think once other factions hear of the most important knowledge ever; they would immediately try to take control of it. Either to safeguard it, or to capitalize off it. I think the fireflies would be fighting wars on every front, and, struggling with resources and manpower to actually make the vaccine in any appreciably amount, all at once. She'd basically still die for nothing. -- This was a great video, I really liked it.
Exactly a thing people can forget
At that point, that was bassically the last base they had
In the 2nd game the Fireflies are gone. because Joel wiped them out
If that one location was all they had. No way were they getting that cure out to everyone.
Joel. In 1 night. completely wiped them out. Which is why Abbey and the like hate him so much. To their eyes, he killed the glorious rebel cause, and killed the only scientist who could have fixed it.
But in reality. If one dude could take them All out in like, an hour. They weren't going to last long anyways.
So even IF they could get the cure, which is a Big IF from their resources.
Their ability to spread it out to the world.... Not happening. They wouldn't even be able to mass produce it.
At BEST
It would ended up a recruiting thing. They're able to produce some amount of vaccine, and basically put it as 'join us and get the vaccine'.
Even if they WANT to spread it. They don't have the resources to do it
Personally I think that such a world, while brutal, would still be way better than the universe of The Last of Us
Whenever I see someone bring up the tired argument about how the fireflies were doomed to fail and would not be able to make a vaccine for contrived reasons even though the story's themes pretty explicitly depend upon the duality of Joel's decision and the implication of its outcomes (and it was stated by the writers that the Fireflies absolutely could have at the very least made a viable vaccine), I usually roll my eyes before moving on because 99% of the time it immediately devolves into hateposting about part II but this is probably one of very few instances where I've seen someone make interesting points about the potential struggle behind **using** the vaccine and not just handwaving it as impossible to produce in the first place, because honestly the conversation behind getting the vaccine distribution off the ground and the effect it would have on post apocalypse power dynamics between the few substantial groups of humanity left alive have pretty interesting story implications and is something I hope will be explored in future entries at least in some capacity.
One caveat, though, is I still take issue with the "Ellie would still die for nothing" statement. Think about it. If that's really the conclusion you need to resolve the moral dilemma of Joel's decision then in my opinion you are severely depriving yourself the chance to critically engage with the story and its conclusion in a holistic way. The entire crux of that final decision rests on there being real consequences behind either outcome. It's meant to embody the themes of hope and hopelessness. In the case of Joel choosing to save Ellie there is the hope that her life and what its preservation represents--a humanity first approach to the rebuilding of society and the world, one that uses the intimate and meaningful interpersonal struggles of those who care for and about each other to embody the themes of burgeoning hope and placing our faith in our will to survive and live in ourselves and each other--will go on to be a small yet meaningful piece in the overall tapestry of renewal and rebirth for the human race and society at large, such that her immunity itself will not even have to be a necessary step in the process. At the same time there is a dark and melancholy hollowness that undercuts this choice. How many people did Joel's decision potentially touch or even inadvertently cut short the lives of? What if Ellie were to randomly die on the way back to Jackson? (something we know all too well had a very high chance of happening in a world like this). What if Ellie didn't believe Joel's lie and ditched him at the first opportunity to go look for the remaining fireflies herself, making his decision pointless? What if the ending had played out slightly differently and Ellie woke up before Joel escaped-during the confrontation with Marlene, perhaps? We probably would have seen a deeply betrayed and anguished Ellie telling Joel to leave her with Marlene and never come back.
People are very quick to pile on the hypotheticals when it comes to justifying the morality of Joel's decision but rarely consider the many hypotheticals of the inverse. Which brings us to the themes of the other choice (one which we, unfortunately, can only speculate on, but I digress): Joel leaving Ellie with the Fireflies. In contrast to the very human, interpersonal, and emotional hope yet solemn grimness that the canon ending carries, this outcome's brand of hope, while more detached and esoteric, I think would feel much further reaching and have stronger implications for the immediate future than the canon ending. As opposed to the more granular renewal of society that Joel's decision (and by extension, Ellie's life in Jackson) to take a chance on people's love for each other and desire to live for that love rather than prioritizing more utilitarian goals as symbolized through his sacrifice of a vaccine in exchange for Ellie's life, this ending would be more of a "shock to the system", so to speak. While less grounded in emotional and interpersonal meaning, the overall transformation of society would get a jumpstart with the distribution of immunity to the infection. The hope this would bring is more existential than interpersonal and its effects would be substantially farther reaching in a much shorter time period. Humanity would begin to stir again after decades of increasingly deepening silence across the globe. Of course, this side of the coin is not all sunshine and rainbows either. Far from it, in fact. There is a substantial risk/reward gamble at play here, and many ways this could go wrong or create bad situations. What if a malicious faction seized control of the vaccine, for instance? Offering it to select groups perhaps, maybe gatekeeping it behind slavery or indentured servitude, maybe even keeping some people unvaccinated and then intentionally infecting them before releasing them into a rival population as a form of biological warfare that would pose no risk to them because they're immune?
I think there truly is a wealth of discussion and speculation to be had about this games' ending when you realize that both the themes of hopefulness and hopelessness can exist in both outcomes and there are valid arguments for both of them. It's understandable and expected for people to be biased towards what they're familiar with and attached to, but it's also necessary to do our best to sometimes step outside of our biases and view things from different angles. It's easy to say Joel was justified and the fireflies were doomed to fail anyway because we have only seen the story play out one way and only through Joel and Ellie's eyes. It's easy to claim the fireflies had "unrealistic" chances of success but if you're going to apply the realism argument, you shouldn't stop at what it implies for the fireflies. If we're being honest, realism would've ensured Joel and Tess never even made it to Robert (they were heavily outnumbered and outgunned), let alone crossed paths with Marlene and subsequently Ellie.
Anyway, I'll end this super long comment here. Hopefully I managed to get someone to think a bit more critically about this.
If you wanna be technical, no the fireflies could not make a vaccine
But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have done something so similar that it doesn’t matter.
The best thing to do would be to make a powerful antifungal medication made using a strain of cordyscepts.
In fact a similar medication already exists.
In the end that’s irrelevant.
What is relevant is could the fireflies have made a cure or vaccine?
No. Because Joel killed them.
@@ultimaweapon991 The only thing we see the Fireflies do is fail. They lose every fight, they lose every outpost, and their whole operation was wiped out by one middle aged man. The Fireflies are objectively incompetent according to all in game evidence.
Let me say this since I'm early, please keep making these videos they give me something to listen to in the background while I work
Man this guy is him, because of all of his analysis videos I have learned so much on writing techniques and depth in detail about the last of us, learning and listening to what you have to say has been so helpful for me to learn so thanks so much man, you have no idea how much I'm enjoying these videos.
To Marlene and Joel "maybe it was meant to be" has a completely different meaning. Marlene thinks Ellie's arrival was fate because she is destined to restore humanity, but to Joel it feels like fate because of how Ellie appeared out of nowhere and changed his life.
One day I would like to see you cover Arthur Morgan, Dutch van der linde, and other red dead characters. It's a really good set of games.
Oh, I absolutely second this. I've never been the hugest fan of Rockstar; like, their games are fun, but their stories are hilariously straightforward and predictable. Despite that, Arthur Morgan is somehow one of the best written characters in all of video gaming, I absolutely adore him. Red Dead 2 in general is just such a fantastic game.
Yea I'm currently playing through rdr2 atm and I was thinking the same thing
@@BlazingGlaceonthat game is bloated, unfocused, poorly designed from a mechanics standpoint, the story is terribly paced, there characters are dumb, and the best aspects of Arthur’s character happens off screen and is only talked about. He’s a pretty dumb character given the background of what we’re told about the gang and the past.
But yeah throw in a lot of loosely proper periodic grammar and people automatically think the writing is profound. Elden Ring is written in a more Shakespearean style, but no one sucks that game off for its writing. That’s partly because story in Elden Ring isn’t too important to enjoy it, but people also don’t because the fanbase isn’t as toxic and widespread.
Cockstar can slap their logo onto the shittiest product and there will still be defendants so long as they threw enough money into it for features that existed 15 years ago but hey look they got a new coat of paint, and that coat of paint means it’s good. Graphics = good, that’s the retarded reasoning and double standard in their favour.
If GTA Trilogy The Definitive Edition had good enough graphics, like say they ported over content but using the GTA 5 engine, but it was just as buggy and lazy in terms of actual polish and refinement, then people would defend it way more and give them a pass.
@russian_knight don't listen to this dull minded child, I am sorry that his mind is to inexperienced and weak to fathom red dead redemption 2
@@DroolingDrillinghe wanna be different so bad
You really are cranking out the last of us videos. Great Job!
Joel does what his heart desires and not what the world wants him to do.
we do not know if Ellie dying in that hospital would actually give us a cure or even if it will get the world back to once it was, but too joel, he saw his goal and he got what he knew was right.
I agree save ellie let ellie find other way make cure for everyone without her giving up her life to do so .what joel wanted do for ellie .but took ellie while to finally understand joel did right thing and give other shot to fulfill her dream save people but in duffent way .
If the cure wasn’t guaranteed to work, it eliminates the depth of Joel’s decision, his characterization of being selfish and uncaring to others, outside of those he trusts.
Joel saved his world, Ellie was his entire world
I dunno…. The reaction of Abby’s dad when Owen told him about Ellie says other wise
@@vam_ola owen say what to jerry about ellie I have replay part 1 again .may have missed it .
I felt this video. Currently on a journey. I'm always a brooding stoic type. Usually very pessimistic about things. But I'm trying to be a better person. To be more happy. But i always see myself reverting back to the same old me. Will i ever get to a new better me? Maybe not, but i do have HOPE.
Great video.
@MrMaurice1124 I wish you good fortune in your journey to come.
And, if I may, a small piece of advice/a small observation - to find yourself slipping back into old ways when trying to change them is proof of how you’re aware of your old ways, which is a crucial step in changing them. We all on this planet strive for change, but without recognising our lapses will never push ourselves forwards towards this change.
These banger FatBrett last of us video essays keep me functioning throughout the day Fr.
I also think that Ellie starting to refer to destiny after her encounter with David shows how much of an impact he had on her. She incorporate the possibility of a 'fate' just because he MENTIONS it in one conversation. It must have scarred her deeply and it may have worsen after Joel's death because what are the odds of Abby's group running so perfectly into Joel and Tommy?
I love your videos so so so much. You make great analysis and I'm learning su much about character development and depth. Keep up the amazing work! I'll be waiting for your next video!
Sarah Conner has entered the chat: "No fate but what we make."
Nice
Hey Brett, fantastic essay as always! I do have one thing I want to point out: your conclusion is that Joel is ultimately a slave to fate. I mostly agree with this conclusion: as you said: Joel ultimately makes the same decision at the end of the game as he did in the beginning of the game. If we take out the fact that this is a fictional, written story, we could conclude that Joel's decisions were always going to lead to the Fireflies at the end of the game, were always going to lead to him being spared from the Fireflies, and then go on a rampage as he learns about Ellie's fate, her being operated on and dying for the sake of the vaccine. I would make the argument though that Joel's decision may not have been breaking HIS fate, it might not have even broken humanity's fate, but I would argue that it changes Ellie's fate.
Remember at the very end when Marlene told Joel he was free to go? To me that's saying that he was always walking out of there alive, since we know he also ended up walking away after his final confrontation with the Fireflies. I believe that Joel's fate in the story was always going to be surviving. Not so for Ellie. Throughout the game, Ellie's fate is to die. If Joel had done nothing, Ellie would never have survived. Ellie's fate was certain at the beginning of the game, whether or not we realized it. I have little doubt the Fireflies always knew that Ellie would never survive the procedure, and if it wasn't for everybody's involvement Ellie would have never survived period. She would have either died in Boston, in the mall (both times) or outside with Joel, Ellie only survived so long because of other's decisions, until Winter when she was the one making the decisions, and then Spring where the decisions were taken away from her again. If Ellie's fate was always to die, then Joel's fate broke that fate because it was every decision, and the sum of those decisions, that ended up keeping Ellie alive. Wouldn't it then be plausible to say that in a way, Joel's and Ellie's fates are diametrically opposed? Ellie will always be, or put herself into, mortal danger which she cannot escape from alone. On the other side, Joel will always survive, and he will always protect his daughter. These two being together is why Ellie survives, it's the only reason why Ellie can survive. Therefore: Ellie's fate to die is ultimately broken because of Joel's, because it's Joel's fate to never let his family die, whatever fate that family might have.
If you think about it, GOW fate looks massive and looming but it’s really a stand alone complex of everyone doing what is in their nature to do. It just looks like someone is pulling the strings. Mind blown?
Could we have a Doom video someday? I think that the Doomguy is interesting. Or maybe one about the villains, I think Doom has so much and deserves a great video of yours someday.
This made me think of undertale and flowey's fate and the reason he's so messed up is cuz he's been able to break fate so many times
I adore David's performance in the game and show. Listening to him talk, you can hear the subtext to what he's saying: "everything happens for a reason, and God brought you to me, so obviously God is rewarding me because I really wanted to kill you and Joel, and now I get to."
People like him think they're entitled to whatever they want because they're a devout follower of God and that therefore means they're owed the rewards that good followers are due. It's a perversion of the idea of karma, I believe, and is unsettlingly common in the modern day.
I think that's what drives the audience's interest in David, he's real and we can't look away.
These video essays are incredibly well done, and your arguments are well thought out and persuasive.
Started with the FEDRA video, and I’ve enjoyed the rest of TLOU essays - looking forward to more, both on TLOU and other games :)
Brett video? Instant click
Very well done, thank you.
It seems implied in the concept of fate that we are who we are (like train tracks) and it is immutable, but I don't think that's entirely fair.
As noted to Kratos, we are who we are because of our CONSISTENT CHOICES to that end, but SOME OF US can consciously change and make different choices -- breaking the cycle, following a different "program", as it were.
Joel didn't like Ellie from the start, but the 2 grew together, and while Joel had descended to the level of survival, to the level of animal (as many of us do) he had become that nihilistic fate machine that is critiqued here BUT Joel learned, and grew, and made different choices.
Ellie is Joel's redemption arc, from the "Hero's Journey".
Sarah's death had shattered him, and his wound scarred over as a survivor, to the level of animal, or machine.
But it was caring for Ellie that renewed Joel's soul.
And while he did murder his way through that hospital, that was because they were about to murder Ellie, whom he had grown to love and had given him a reason for living again, given him his soul back -- in effect, murdering him as well.
To wit, the Fireflies drugged Ellie AGAINST HER WILL and would have KNOWINGLY MURDERED HER, even knowing the unbelievably low chances of success of a vaccine (even with OUR CURRECT TECH it takes 10-15years to create a vaccine AND at that, 90-95% fail... this was a LONG SHOT OF LONG SHOTS, desperation, really, and Abby's Father knew this AND WAS COMPLICIT).
I'd also like to add that in the zoo, Joel was ready to cash out and go back to Tommy's. He said as much to Ellie, BUT IT WAS ELLIE'S SEARCH FOR MEANING that had them press on, and ultimately lead to Joel's death, Tommy's disabling, and Ellie's "revenge".
Hindsight being what it is, but what was clearly Joel's instinct at the time was the smart play: count yourselves lucky you survived, enjoy the OASIS that Tommy and Maria built, live out your days in relative peace there, and maybe find love and build a family -- heck that's biologically probably the solution to the fungus problem in this universe, as likely Ellie's kids would be immune, and go on to spread THEIR immunity further!
I love your essays on TLOU and GoW. I haven't played either game, but I've watched multiple people on YT play both TLOU games and I've watched the show. I love the depth that you bring to the story. I'm looking forward to your future essays. I know almost nothing about FF, but I'll probably watch those videos too. I've been lurking on your channel for quite a while but this essay made me comment. Keep up the great work!
I'm a simple man. I see this guy's videos on my timeline, I click it immediately.
I think the “if the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again” was Joel’s way of saying he did freely choose to fulfil his destiny, though his destiny was not what everyone and everything in the Last of Us game was designed to point to. His destiny was not to cure mankind, but to protect the innocent girl he grew to see as his daughter.
If I had a nickel for every game franchise involving a gruff fatherly figure and his child breaking fate, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice!
The way people drag PlayStation for those 2 franchises are crazy
Loving all the TLOU videos lately!
I also believe David's belief in destiny is supposed to be an exact opposite of joel, who David is supposed to be a dark reversal of
Ellie says they got lucky because way earlier in the game its one of the things Joel says to her for how they survived through the subway and FEDRA, Joel says "Its called luck. And it will run out." Followed by Tess before dying is "Our luck had to run out sometime "
Joel and Ellie believe in luck, Joel didnt get killed when sarah did, he kept surviving situations he probably believes he shouldn't.
But david believes he survived everything alongside Ellie is because of destiny. He thinks they were never going to die because destiny needed him to kill joel and take ellie
"Final Fantasy 7 introduced us to some of the most famous characters in video game history"
*cough cough* italian senate *cough cough*
Man…this is a great essay. I never realized the similarities in themes between the 2 games. Subscribed!
i would like to point out that joel mentions luck in the very beginning almost planting a seed, but very subtle and he says "its gonna run out". Ellie in turn mentions luck in that scene just as joel did
23:35
notice, how he sais "daughter" instead of "ellie"? this is probably a mistake but its really accurate to how joel starts to see ellie over time
The norns knew what they were doing. By telling Kratos that Atreus would be killed, they knew the God killer would take decisive action, and “do what he does best”.
My favorite part is when Joel yelled "there is a tempest in me!" Before he shot Marlene
He was so real for this
This channel has got me really interested in playing god of war
Awww yeah! As awesome as it is to see another Last of Us bit, I’m definitely looking forward to your Final Fantasy videos!
Damn my friend very insightful. I’ve always said when Joel left those people in the beginning he sealed his FATE. So to speak.
Brett, i look forward to anything you do. Its not so much the games your examining that I'm watching your content for, as much as i just like to hear YOUR OPINIONS, YOUR BREAKDOWNS, by nature of it being YOU, I basically want to watch it. I can't really even explain why or when that happened, but its frankly how I feel about your content.
In part 2, Ellie's journal entries about faith and her last conversation with Joel build on this theme. And this is one of the most central themes of the whole story, I am excited to see how part 3 will explore it
I like that you start all your TLOU videos with the same song
I’m stoked to hear your thoughts on FFVII, thanks Brett!
Your video was awesome as always but since you brought up the Norns, maybe for another God of War video you could talk about their manipulation of destiny. They talk about how Freya's choices lead to Buldur's death but she made those choices because of them. Also, they straight up lied to Kratos when they said he would die, or giants can prophesy better than the damn Norns but I'm inclined to believe the former. This must mean that Odin's and Asgard's downfall is what the Norns wanted to happen.
This guy need more subscribers
I would love it if you also analyze part 2 because it also challenges the meaning of fate, grief, perspective, and humanity
"part 2" is a pile of garbage by incompetent writers. Constant contrivances to force the plot forward at any cost. You fix any of them, the whole thing crashes to the ground.
i think its a testament of how groundbreaking and powerful this game and its story is considering that so many years later people are making multiple video essays about it without them being padded or stretched thin at all
"I also want to bring another game, God Of War: Ragnarok" never gets old.
Awesome video Brett. You just made my Sunday.🤘
Looking forward to the Cait Sith character analysis
Truly great essay! 🤯👏🏽 please make more like this ❤
I am interested in viewing your perspective on Joshua Graham. Your thorough studies will suit the complex character very well, I think.
In T2, John Connor summed it up fairly well, "The future is not set. There is no fate, but what we make for ourselves".
pleaseeee more last of us videos and maybe some red dead 2? i love the way you construct your videos, theyre my favorite type of content on youtube. i enjoy your in depth views on things ive never even noticed in games i play several times
Loving the tlou content man! Subscribed and looking forward to more content 🙏🏻
Lets not forget that at the last few minutes of TLOF Part II there's the flashback where Joel literally says he would do it all over again.
"We can't fight change.
We can't fight nature.
We can't fight gravity.
We can't fight nothing."
I would say fate is etched within us. Our nature, our programming. When we are threatened with loss of something we hold dear, it is a natural response to fight and preserve it. Fear of pain, loss, and meaninglessness guide our choices. I think a person who has broken fate is a person that is able to act independently of these stimuli.
I get so excited once i see the notification
After watching this i noticed how similar Ellie's Journey in Part 2 is !
She's now the One who brings most Deaths by herself just to get to the Point of getting Revenge, but in the End she realizes that it MAYBE wasn't her Destiny
Original final fantasy 7 is my favorite game, can't wait to see your take on it 😃
Thank you for this ❤️
BACK AT IT AGAIN WITH THE PEAK OF US
Not really his brother basically heavily lampshaded his fate in the first game.
Guess you could say he called a "Joel in One"
In the immortal words of Heimdall, "You do not get to decide my fate!"
My favorite part of the game is when joel says "ITS JOEL TIME" and he joels fucking everywhere
Great video! Is there a possibility for literary analysis videos on red dead redemption 2?
3:32 super random, but was that a Fox shine that you can hear?
You should really do a series like this for TLOU 2.
I was thinking that as well.
11:00 sunk cost fallacy
Amazing, the part regarding fate and destiny reminded me of Eren Jaeger in Attack on Titan. "He is a slave to fate because he is a slave to himself"
Eren is a slave to freedom thats why he still did what he needed to do, fulfilling his memories of the future
13:07 oh shit I think it's about meaning a big theme in last of us is why bother surviving if it has no meaning but she wants fate to be real because now it all has meaning, Elie just wants her life and pain to mean something
I swear, every time the discussion of destiny and where's the paths of the characters are supposed to go in the story, and whether or not the final destination is determined always reminds me of the one above all from marvel. This is supposedly has something like this as well for under a different name. Especially since that's basically what's happening with the ones above all for this video game.
Now before anybody says anything, give him what the one above all is supposed to be a stand-in for, technically every franchise, every piece of media out there has a one above all. Every book, video game, TV show, movie, etc etc has a one above all because it had a creator that had to write a script. That's just one person who can be considered the one or ones above all, never mind the directors and producers.
Now for those of you who are not familiar with the concept of the one above all, he is like the ultimate high beam. He is the God above everything. Literally the one above it all. In the marvel universe this person is an actual character. But this character is really just meant to be a stand-in for the actual writers and creators of the comic books. Kind of like allowing them away to engage with their characters without just straight up writing themselves into the damn story. Which kind of depending on the circumstance of the story they will do that. But more often than not they are usually not known as the creators or the one above all when they just straight up write themselves in. They're just the writers. And usually the only ones they can engage with are the ones who can break the fourth wall. So say I'm a writer writes himself in it, they're at least likely to really write themselves speaking with Captain America and more likely to write themselves speaking with deadpool. Or Gwenpool. But if for some reason they wanted to sit down and have a chat with spider-man, then they're going to write themselves as the one above all. But it won't be said or mentioned that they're the one above all. Just hinted at typically.
And nowadays ever since I've discovered this concept, I cannot hear a discussion about destiny when it comes to any sort of media, the discussion of where a path is going, the discussion about changing said destiny and not think of what is really truly being plan by the original creators. Because they are the ones who created this destiny. They are the ones who leave them to their final destination. They're the ones above all guiding it all.
And as far as I know, although marvel & DC are the only ones who have written their creators as actual characters into their stories, every franchise in my eyes has a one above all. If they had a creator, or creators, it has a one or the ones above all.
And when we look at it from that lens, everything, every single little thing they did in that game was predetermined. Was predestined. The only things that weren't 100% destiny is how many steps do it take, how many people you would have killed, and how much supplies do you would have passed by because that's going to depend on the individual and their playthrough. Alternative playthroughs this makes things really interesting because in my eyes you can almost look at this as alternative variant timelines where things went differently. Like somebody who died multiple times in their play through. Those could have been multiple variant timelines where Joel or Ellie die. Now there are no multiple timelines or a multiverse in the last of us universe. This is just my little personal head Canon with video games and death just to make it more fun and interesting for myself.
At 10:30 everything is created and predetermined by the creators or the ones above all. But things can always be slightly different due to who's playing and how to play through turns out. With multiple different variant timelines.oh very very similar damn near exactly the same with the exception of one slight change. Maybe a player went to the left or the right. Maybe that one player checked that one closet for extra supplies.
Again I just do this on purpose cuz I think it's interesting to think about it and it makes video games are really any service menu for that matter of fact more interesting to me and make me want to think about it more.
But at the same time it makes the discussion of Faith impossible for me. As it feels like it will always be predetermined even when it seems like it's broken by its characters. Because the ones above are the ones who made that decision and made the final decisions. Even if you're talking about a video game say like The telltale games or Detroit become human where there are multiple endings in multiple decisions to change the outcome of the story, predetermined possibilities by the creator.
It feels to me like in some way former fashion faith will always be pretty determined for a character. Just a player can sometimes have the final say of what truly happens. Which direction they go down. What decisions will be made or vetoed.
But no matter what at the end of the day, the decisions of the characters, the final destination, the fate of those characters in the face of our experience as players will always be predetermined to a degree. Even if you could never completely be predicted accurately. Or a creator doesn't know what the final destination will be until they get there. Though we usually come in very late. In a sense of like we literally don't get there until we play the game. Or any other sort of media until we read the book or watch the movie. I feel like this question of faith can get even more interesting when an ending is led up to interpretation rather than truly saying what happens. Because again, I feel like that face is always predetermined by the creators. So it becomes easier to discuss when it's left ambiguous at the end. Whereas if you just straight up know what happens to them, that fate was always predetermined in my eyes. Even if there was another possibility. Possibilities was not open because it's not one of those games where you can change the outcome of the story. As if they were always predetermined to make these primary story decisions.
I think i signed up in writing class by mistake
I personally believe that Kratos didn't break his fate because he's a god and changed, I believe his true fate wasn't necessarily a god killer like the norns preached, but just an extremely passionate family man and a father. All of Kratos' actions throughout the entire series has always been driven by family in one way or another, it just so happened that violence, the action he was taught and brought up around since birth, happened to be the best solution to protecting or avenging his family, or so he thought.
I think Kratos surviving and changing wasn't necessarily breaking his violent fate and nature, but more so proving that his true nature had always been family related, and that he would do anything, even change his usual way of solving problems violently, to retain his family. The nature of being a god killer was solely the outside that everyone saw, an unfortunate end result of how Kratos decided to protect or avenge his family.
Love this video so much, have always thought about how both Kratos and Joel approach fate/destiny so seeing an indepth video like this really helped put my thoughts in order and showed me a different perspective
Such a great analysis ❤🎉
this guy just really loved using that kratos looking at the light scene over and over again huh
Or maybe Joel was fated to slaughter the fireflies
I cant wait for you to start digging into part 2
Dude I just read a book that described luck in the same way god of war did!!! Bad luck vs good luck, neither are something that will happen at random. Both are brought to passing after putting oneself in position to have either. For example, if I work continuously at bettering myself, associating with positive people, becoming aware of the world, of my own self. After all this I meet the perfect person, it’s not luck that brought that person to me, it’s the constant deliberate actions I took to have a better life!!! Same with bad luck, if I put myself in a position of doing bad and something “unlucky” happens, it’s just that road that I put myself on.
i actually like the idea of GOW:R's idea of fate on TLOU. Because Joel cannot accept the idea of someone that wants to harm Ellie still breathing, he will always kill the surgeon and Marline. And because humans thirst for revenge when they have a opposable cause for a loved one's death, he dies to the manhunt of the group at the begining of TLOU2. And because Ellie and Tommy are also humans that thirsts for that same revenge, all but Abby of that group also end up dying to them. And because they heard that fireflies were still alive at some place, they would fall int he trap of whoever it was that caught them at the end. And that's where the breaking of fate comes in: during the theatre fight, Abby has Ellie's girlfriend at knife point. She has every opportunity to kill her, and every reason, too, since at that point pretty much all her friends are dead, including the pregnant one. What causes a different choice than "kill for revenge" is the kid that she rescued from the other people. She wanted to set a better example for him, and decided to let them both live. And it's because Ellie was still alive after the theatre fight that she could come to rescue them, even if the original intent was still to kill her. And it's because she made a different choice for the sake of someone innocent, that she showed that a different choice, mercy, was possible. And that's why Ellie ultimately decided to let them leave.
To put it simply, TLOU 2 also says "For the sake of our children, we must be better.", just not directly.
Great video essay
i think the thing that is so interesting about david bringing up fate as well is that it's NOT fate at all that ellie and joel specifically ended up near david's town. david's people are the ones that nearly killed joel, causing them to hole up in a nearby neighborhood, and ellie to come wandering around for food and medicine. it's NOT fate that the man who killed david's men was joel; joel and ellie have been in the same area the whole time. idk, i just think that adds to the whole idea of fate kind of being bullshit in the last of us, because if you give it even a little bit of thought, it's not even 'fate' to begin with. it's just, like. cause and effect.
Joel is basically Kratos without god killing super powers, but still kick ass.
Anytime the Norns are brought up it’s a good video
Destiny = self nature. When you understand some ones nature, you could predict their future.
Bit on the David fate speech. Call me Captain obvious here but was David’s speech meant to be ironic?
As in fate led David to the “victim” that would be his final undoing?
Edit
Ellie says exactly this when she breaks his finger.
This makes me think about part 2.
A lot of people I talk to, including myself, say and wish that Abby paid for her actions. Ellie should have killed Abby. And if she did, Lev would’ve killed Ellie. The cycle would’ve continued.
But it didn’t. There was always a choice to end the cycle. Ellie could have killed Abby *and* Lev, and that would’ve ended the cycle. That choice would’ve been in Ellie’s nature. One could argue that perhaps that should’ve been her destiny.
Ellie did not make that choice, however. Ellie chose to spare Abby and Lev. The cycle still ended.
This thought process can still be discussed, many could argue which choice was truly fate, but I think Ellie stopped being a slave to fate when she stopped being a slave to her choices.
She realizes Joel got what he deserved for his action thats it
Fate only exists as a quantim wave-function of superposition.
You have to simultaneously believe and not believe in its existence for it to exist.
The story is expertly crafted to make u doubt your own morals and ideals. The world, settings, character motivations, factions, the sheer amount of violence and the depravity thar humanity has devolved into show how desperately the world needs this cure. However, thru joels character development, it shows how none of that matters and you might drop everything u believe in for someone you love.
Love those TLOU videos. Is there a reason why you don't cover content from TLOU 2 tho? Or is it something that will eventually come?
I'm looking forward to the Final Fantasy discussion
Part 3 will be like this: it was all a dream and Ellie had a nightmare after the party and woke up and they all lived happy ever after ❤
When you realize that Ellie not killing Abby is her essentially breaking fate, her own cycle of revenge.
Cringe.
Whooooo new video