TWO GROUNDED COMPRESSORS ?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- You always need to double check and don't rush thru the diagnosis, this was a great example of how you can make a simple mistake.
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The screaming exhaust fan at the end took me out lol
and Chris was on site to hear it , LoL
12:43 i love this moment...That extractor was crying for help, poor guy
Still amazes me at the cheapness of US made HVAC equipment, two-pole contactors on three phase equipment, no wire containment, etc.. Looks like someone built these in their garage with parts from a scrap yard. Yet they charge top dollar for sub-par assembly.
the 2 pole on 3 phase on the single pole on a split phase set ups are horrible I would always change it to the correct number of poles
Carrier uses that hot leg as a back feed through the compressor for the crank case heater. Don't like it but it has worked for 50 years
As the man said "you have to know when to hold them, know when to fold them and when to walk away". Chris you made the right choice.
. . agree Will , #respect to Chris . . . any prior "business/owner" he helped knows . . . . you always get what you pay for
Thanks
@@williambutler7312 Thanks
@@williambutler7312 Thanks
@codyfrisch4378 took the words right out of my mouth!!
Just finished watching a movie, its 2am and I’m watching this before i sleep😂
It was cool meeting Chris at AHR Expo 2024.
Those boxcar units are massive!! Be cool to see a video with them!
I just retired as a 41 year CATV tech. I learned years ago. Neve make temp repairs. Should have let them suffer in the heat.
Refrigeration and HVAC are the last things people care about. From restaurants to food production its always the same story. They don't care about it until it doesn't work.
Design the building so badly that no tenant is going to undertake the repair, nice!
0:56 R410A 😍 - Riley
Dirty condenser and a bad condenser fan motor killed the compressor. That head pressure was insane for 80 ambient. Also, Carrier uses that winding as a common for the crankcase heater too.
Happy I wasn’t the only one to say wtf 500psi is crazy for 410a
I might be misremembering but I thought he said it was 105.
The moment you said "they built the building around it", I knew it was fixing to be an absolute disaster. People don't realize that buildings last longer than HVAC systems. At least on the engineering side of the industry I always try to think about guys like you who need to fix and replace the equipment. I try to think about "how are they going to replace this in 20 years when it dies?" I often make requests to architects when I can like 4'-0" doors and double doors to mechanical rooms whenever I find a situation like that. Sometimes though, the architect and the building owner don't care, and once I remind them their techs are going to hate them, they either change their tune or they don't. Have fun with that Gemini unit if they decide to proceed.
Ive got a cuatomer with 2 of those condensers going to a huge make up air. What i always see is the panel getting blown off during a dust storm.
Remember, your multimeter leads add quite a bit of resistance in the milliohm range. Also, the contact resistance of the alligator clips also adds resistance. Get an LCR meter to accurately measure resistances that low, or a megohm meter.
An LCR meter large enough for a motor winding is quite large and expensive.
For this type of work it is probably acceptable to take a direct offset by clamping the alligator clips together, reading the resistance, and subtracting it from the motor under test reading.
DLRO not megohm meter. Megohm meter is for insulation resistance. DLRO is for low resistance values, like coils and connections.
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct! But i mean a meter with a megohm range, as those are usually more sensitive and have higher testing voltages and currents. Though, you would obviously not use that range for this kind of testing. Depending on the meter, this higher current allows resistance measurements with more accuracy. Though I think the commonly used megohm meters used in this field are for high resistances and insulation breakdown testing, so they may not have both a low and high range. My point, get an LCR meter! This also helps you measure the inductance of motor windings and as a bonus, a much more accurate measurement of starring caps.
@lgunderso2117 they are actually not that bad these days. I recently got a hantek one for about 140$ I think. Does all the L's C's and R's I could want. And it is very good in the milliohm range with 4 decimal places of range. It also comes with a low inductance dead short for zeroing. So you know you can get right down to .0005 ohms with good accuracy.
@@willernst8376 I have used DLROs that will also give you the inductance (H) reading as well when measuring coils. But a megaohm meter is high voltage, low current for high resistance and DLRO or milli-ohm meters are low voltage and high current for measuring low resistances. But for motors you don't need high currents, that is only for breaker contacts or bolted electrical connections that pass 100's of amps. But they will measure in the micro-ohm range. High voltage breaker contacts are down to 90 micro-ohms or less. That's 0.000090 ohms or less. Motors are of course well above that.
12:43 - Time to fill out another repair order, which could have been avoided with proper PM... 🤦♂
12:57 - The visibility was amazing on the date you filmed! Look how far into the distance we can see clearly! This would be one of those moments where I wish I had a 2K or 4K monitor and upgraded video card to truly appreciate the view. Sure, I poke fun at Cali quite often, but like literally everywhere on the planet, beauty can be found if we choose to look for it... I hope you are able to stop for a few moments on sites like this to just enjoy the view. I know I would, even if it were only for a few seconds.
Chris, you're 100% right. You got the system limping along for the rest of the summer, there's little demand on the system during the winter, and this summer when the system struggles - or suffers another breakdown - you'll title the video something like "IT'S 120 DEGREES IN THE KITCHEN - PLEASE HURRY." And we'll be sitting here laughing at the customer, thinking "you had all winter, when sales are typically lower, to replace it."
That you can tell what one of those you changed, without looking up records or anything, that really is impressive. Combined with your attention to detail, you got a good brain.
Great Job.. amazing 👏 craftsmanship... Thank you for the knowledge 🙏
I have a building that has the same issues. 1 unit that is split by a wall. I assume that if you’re opening up the system for a major repair you would be adding the liquid solenoid valve to protect your compressor.
You got alot of work to do here good luck.we appreciate you for sharing your videos.great information.your the man. I know you have the best videos in hvacr
It's a really cheap construction.
In Europe it is mandatory to use an 3 pol contactor on 3 phase motors.
Most of the time you also use an motor protector.
These components are cheap im comparision to a new compressor.
The fan motor (bearings) may be going bad, causing the high line current, but it also very well may have a failing capacitor. A quick check to see if it is indeed bearings would be to shut them off and see if the suspect fan stops sooner than the others.
Those Carriers with 2 pole contactors on 3 phase are killing many technicians by electrocution , 2 in Ottawa Canada .
Lack of isolation procedure is killing technicians. A welded contact would do the same thing.
My opinion: to replace that indoor unit, propose them several smaller indoor units in parallel (a hack) and get the old unit out by cutting it to peaces. Connect the small units with thicker pipe so that the heat distribution will be somewhat even. Wire everything as if you had just one big heat exchanger.
Commercial HVAC design engineer here. Unless they want to tear apart that whole kitchen area or pull off a section of roof to get that air handling unit out, I would recommend a big VRF system with as many indoor units as you need. 3 and 4 ton ductless units are available. Abandon the old air handler, and remove and scrap the condensing unit and lineset on the roof. I may be biased because I do a lot of VRF system design, but it immediately makes me think in that direction in that situation.
@@eggman9713 good idea.
Very informative video thanks for sharing sir
Missed you at AHR. Good video
thank you, i see that my customers are fuckuply normal and no difference between south florida and california customers....
Great video
That seems dangerous sharing a leg on three phase
YEEAAAAH SPORLAN!!!!!!!!! ITSSS BAAAAAACK
what rocket scientist had the bright idea to design the system like this?
Accountants.
@@alistairmackintosh9412 developers who own the accountants lol. Good accountants understand the value of durable facilities.
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
Good job trouble shooting the electrical system. You are better at contorl work and troubleshooting than most electricians I know. You should go for your EC license.
i did not know some ac units had SIGHTGLASSES on them
Why no chillers and fan coil units I’m in Australia and work as a hvac technician and it’s becoming more common now even with smaller site that a couple air cooled chillers an fcu’s seem to be a better option being that the fcu’s can last the life of the big they are decent quality and looked after
God bless you
you need a MEGGER to measure resistance to ground my friend :D
I have one but there is no need when it’s shorted to ground, a normal meter is just fine
@@HVACRVIDEOS no a meter uses only a few volts hard to find leakage to ground need the high volts isolation testet. However if find leaks with meter then its bad 😁 very high leak
@@thedane6483 Seems you didn't listen or watch the video. A short to ground was easily spotted with an ordinary meter. Even a dollar store piece of crap would find it. No megger needed.
Is here any use for changing contactors from 2-pole to 3-pole?
To my mind, the vendor saved couple of dimes, that do cost customer's hundreds of dollars...
Absolutely, could lead to many other problems later. Could easily be retrofit with a 3 pole contractor.
How can it even be accepted practice to use a 2 pole contactor on 3 phase compressors? That doesn't even make sense to me. Especially when the compressors are on different circuits.
In my experience with specifying new Gemini units of that size in my designs, the unit is a single circuit that is then split into multiple circuits for the compressors and condenser fans that are fused. So in theory if one compressor goes bang it shouldn't kill the other one. But that shared leg 2-pole contactor system is just cheap and stupid in my opinion.
It seems just about everything these days is either manufactured, built or constructed without any thought or regard to any kind of maintenance, repair or replacement. Maybe if an ethos towards serviceability was to be created and instilled throughout all industries then there would be a natural progression towards maintain and repair, rather than replace or simply scrap.
Careers and employment opportunities for people to be in the service industries would increase, as well as a corresponding decrease in emissions harmful to the environment and use of finite natural resources from wasteful, unnecessary manufacturing and disposal.
Do those have accumulators? It looks like it. I've been on some service calls where the oil return screen was clogged up in the accumulator and all the oil was trapped there. Of course it killed the compressor..
I remember your previous videos at this location- yikes.
As an engineer familiar with, but not working in building systems-
Ducting down ?5? Stories just isn’t realistic or good.
Some type of split system is needed.
I’d look hard at a roof based chiller plant- refrigerant to air or wet cooling tower.
Air handlers are still needed, but they should be in easily accessible space like a mech room or basement. Above working space built around a building is silly unless the AH is small.
Less leaks, less consequences to leaks, easier to repair, easier to identify, relative to refrigerant air handlers.
If refrigerant air handlers are used, risers should be easily accessible via a door.
I see many of my automotive colleagues and managers not valuing serviceability or longevity. The same is true with building developers, which trickles down to the architects and engineers designing the building and systems.
When we will learn that future upgradability is a value add? It can be very frustrating.
Never been a fan of Carriers use of 2 pole contactors. That leaves 120ish volts to ground on everything.
Are those units heat pumps? That's cool if they are, we don't see them around this part of the country, but still pretty cool either way.
probably only out of necessity given the split nature and the (presumed) difficulty getting a flue to the air handler
replacing that equipment sounds like something my company would do lol, we're the only ones dumb enough to price it usually we
Ohming, That crankcase heater can screw you also. Why did you want to do the accumulator and reversing valve? Thanks
I always change accumulator with the compressor. The accumulator could have a clogged oil return screen due to debris or someone brazing without nitrogen..
It's bad when I can identify the location by the room you're on lol. This is that big mall isn't it where the line set was like super long or something
that 2 out of 3 wires broke by a contactor is absolutely disgusting and needs to be BANNED outright how the hell is it allowed to be
It saves WHOLE CENTS!
-
It’s always baffling how these expensive Compressors aren’t installed with good Motor Protection Systems.
Not even individual Breakers etc. so one Fault doesn’t bring the whole System down.
I've had over 40 years as an electrician and I have never seen a unit wired like this!!
It's American. You'd never see this terrible wiring in a European or UK system.
Unfortunately, you will see the odd anomaly with UK /euro units. A certain French brand is well known for almost no QC..@@Chris-hy6jy
@@Chris-hy6jy True -- you would see the same idiocracy, just manifested differently.
516 on head pressure? Wowzerssss 😳
I was looking for your video where you have to program the economizer via usb and Bluetooth. Can you point me in the right direction please.
I’ve seen a video of yours where you had you program the Siemens economizer but I can’t find it anymore.
I think it's the recent Lennox Core install video th-cam.com/video/ajQukviEerQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=v8LmWbRhgcv3D0ek
8:38 I too have a BFD downstairs 😎
2:35 Yikes. Anytime you have to deal with a unit having that asinine design choice (sharing a hot leg between two motors/compressors) that's beyond its factory warranty, include a rewire of that section as part of the quote as that's a FUBAR convention waiting to happen.
The older repair video for those who are curious:
th-cam.com/video/o2TkyLxg6Os/w-d-xo.html
not removing the wires... it could also have been a short on the wiring between the 2 compressors... and not even the compressors which were shorting out.
Are you blind? He confirmed the short with the wires out of the way by attaching his meter to ground and then directly to the terminals on the compressor itself.
Call in the HVACR helicopter technician, Oh boy, I would walk away from that job. To retain any self respect I have for myself.
be careful out there.
another vid lets go
Thumbs up
They probably should have installed the bloody thing on the ground outside the building and run the ducts in through the kitchen wall...it's how I'd have done it for all the ground floor A/C...I'd have built a walled off compound beside the building on the ground and put all the A/C's for the entire ground floor businesses in there with the ducts run in through the walls...save construction costs overall since now I don't have to reinforce the roof for the weight of multiple huge A/C package units since they're now all on the ground...and a tall enough concrete wall should even keep the local Tweekers from stealing all the copper...
😄😁😆😅😂🤣
Why does it automatically need rev valve?
Because you have no idea what killed the compressor and the system charge would have to be removed to change the reversing valve. So why not just change it and eliminate the possibility? Is it worth the risk? To me it’s not so my quote would include a reversing valve just to be safe
@@HVACRVIDEOS I learned on Ty’s channel that reversing valves basically never fail ever and when they do, it’s because someone hammered on the soft brass. I think he said they just need an exercise back and forth or very light tap. Or flush/dryer if system is open.
@@jordanhenshaw Wrong. They can, and do fail. Takes on a minor piece of debris to stop it from sliding. I got one that needs replacing that will get stuck in either heating or cooling every so many days. Drives the homeowner nuts.
Charge by subcool? Why not weight?
weight is only good when you have the system completely evacuated and can get yourself almost right in the area. subcooling confirms your charge
Seems like it would better to replace those 2p for 3p contactors
Carrier uses one hot leg to keep winding warm instead of using a heater
If the title is a question the answer is "no".
Rethink that suction drier, not the best spot to install it.
I bet that's a shopping mall.
Doo-dah, doo-dah.
Thats the cheapest piece of crap equipment i have ever seen in a commercial setting, unbelievable. Only motor protection is the internal clicker and using those weird 2leg contactors, wires run like a rats nest.
Did you catch the abrasion on the wires entering the bad compressor? Amateur hour at the engineering office.
Two pole contactors on a three phase load shyt you'd never get away with that outside the US
Well come to Canada. We basically follow the same requirements. We got them doing that on Carriers, Tranes, etc.. Manufacturers can do a lot of shady things that are completely illegal for us to do in the field. But inside their cabinets, they can get away with a lot of shady things to save a couple bucks.
Reasons I wouldn't take on a job like that rather do brakes on a car lol
Chris, is this illegal? Dangerous? You don’t seem phased, but the comments are going wild.
Must be last year video
should of listened to their parents! Bada cha
y not just use a 3 phase contactor? how greedy is the mfgr? I dont get it.
I know I keep harping on this and I thought well I’ll send you a link to the proper way to solder and use if you may. It’s in the first part of this video from this old house. I hope this helps you make a cleaner joint.
th-cam.com/video/rVwHEmXg2aE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EfKEoOPXFTTbJYTK
How those two compressors are wired up, irritates me. I'm tempted to suggest bringing up four pole contactors and BREAK the two apart and place them on separate circuits. If something happens to one and backfeeds into the other, causing it to run backwards, instant carnage.
You're overcomplicating this. Just because one leg isn't switched in a contactor doesn't mean that all sorts of backfeeding of circuits into eachother is going to happen and wreak havoc. What difference is it if both compressors are running with their contactors closed? All 3 shared lines are going to be connected all amongst each other the same way.
@@Jason-wc3fh Company engineer spotted.
What a dumb way to run 15 tons.
Good call not to do it.
🔥🤘🫡🔥😁🫡
Businesses are Routinely Penny Wise and Pound Foolish. 🤪👎
Insert comment to appease the algorithm gods 😂
wrong Sir , your comment wont matter seeing your past . . . .
@williambutler7312 you're helping too 🙂 the gods are happy today
These units are the worst