Proxmox Virtual Environment Complete Course Part 4 - Containers vs Virtual Machines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Welcome to my brand-new course on Proxmox Virtual Environment! In this 16-episode series, I'll teach you everything you need to know in order to get up and running with Proxmox. In this class, we'll compare containers against virtual machines.
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Other episodes:
Class 01 - Getting Started: linux.video/pve1
Class 02 - Installation Process: linux.video/pve2
Class 03 - Web Console Overview: linux.video/pve3
Class 04 - Containers vs Virtual Machines: This video
Class 05 - Launching a Virtual Machine: linux.video/pve5
Class 06 - Setting up Virtual Machine Templates: linux.video/pve6
Class 07 - Creating Containers: linux.video/pve7
Class 08 - Setting up Container Templates: linux.video/pve8
Class 09 - User Management: linux.video/pve9
Class 10 - Backups and Snapshots: Coming soon!
Class 11 - Integrated Firewall: Coming soon
Class 12 - Command-line Interface: linux.video/pve12
Class 13 - Networking: linux.video/pve13
Class 14 - Shared storage: linux.video/pve14
Class 15 - Clustering: linux.video/pve15
Class 16 - High availability: linux.video/pve16
Bonus video 1 - Launching a Windows VM: linux.video/pve-win
Bonus video 2 - Getting started with Proxmox Backup Server: linux.video/pbs
Bonus video 3 - Proxmox VE - How to build an Ubuntu 22.04 Template (Updated Method): linux.video/pve-2204
Bonus video 4 - Build a Kubernetes Cluster on Proxmox: linux.video/proxmox-k8s
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Just what the doctor ordered! I tried my hand on proxmox but failed. This is the best series for Proxmox tuts. Thanks very much sir.
The tutorials are easy to follow. I would recommend if you could include the part you create virtual machines i.e. setting up VMs storage and ISO disk storage for those who are new to the technology
Thanks for this. I have a MS-01, 2 TB WD N700's for a Raid Z1 mirror, and 96 GB of Crucial DDR5 on the way for a Proxmox host. I am planning to spin up a Debian box and use it as my main Docker host and migrate all my containers over to that, and I was wondering if LXC or VM was the right choice. Seems like VM is the way to go in my use case.
you're an AMAZING teacher. thank you SO much
Brilliant series so far. Also luvin the tech. Thanks for sharing all the work you've put into the series..wow!
Jay. These Proxmox videos are great. Not sure if you are still a listener but, I will be giving a shout-out on a future Untitled Linux Show.
I like this video series. very detailed well planned. you complete shooting all courses than edit all post production. that is unique. No one would do that. Cheers.
Great video, Thanks for your time and dedication!!!
Wasn't prepared to see a live migration. That's sick!
Episode #4 Knocked over - Good explanations for folks new to virtualization - many thanks sir
Hi, thanks so much for the videos!
Just wanted to notify you that the video link to episode 6 in the description points to video 4.
Best ever, appreciate each class
This was very helpful, Thank you very much!
Gratefull for the videos man thanks.
Long time fan, first comment in your channel. So thank you for the excellent videos Jay :)
To be honest I didn't know containers were this slow to live migrate. Does this mean backups for VMs are also faster without freezing them as it happens with containers?
And just to add to the conversation, containers have a couple advantages more besides lower resource consumption:
- You can live update their RAM, CPU count and storage allocation without a reboot (impossible on VMs)
- You can more easily use them as templates since networking is baked into Proxmox already, without having to convert them to Proxmox templates. In other words, if I want to easily build a stack and replicate to multiple instances, I can configure the container based server how I like (eg install Nginx, MySQL, Redis etc.), shut it down, back it up and then restore it from the storage (not the container's restore option!) into one or more new containers. Then all you have to do is just configure networking if it's static (most likely on production systems) for each container and you're done.
Bonus point is you physically use the backup you created to distribute your container "distribution" to other Proxmox servers that are not part of your cluster.
Top notch videos
Very good info 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Jay, you are awesome!
Thanks for the video
I have NginxProxyManager in a ubuntu 20.4 LXC container and also in a ubuntu 20.04 VM, exactly the same amount of ram and Cpu. The LXC is using 14 Watts less of power. Server is a Dell T620.
Thanks!
Merci!
for the container live migration could we put kubernetes in proxmox with workers in the different nodes? does it work fine? nice content, enjoying the course.
Hello Jay. I likes about the all the TH-cam tutorials n Learning TV. Do you writes any books on Proxmox and TrueNas?
Im No 9 ( Loving this course Jay )
I can only access 5 videos how are you on number 9?
Do you have a video that goes more in depth with containers vs VMs. I have no experience or knowledge of containers.
Hello Jay, nice to meet you, Pablo from Argentina. I was wondering if you now about a software o procedure to run a hypervisor on a host but after booting on it, it presents a virtual machine guest on display? This is with the intention of the working environment of a plant operator be a VM instead of a SO directly installed on the hard drive. I don't know if 'm clear. Thanks
Does Proxmox support dynamic RAM allocation similar to Hyper-V?
Containers in Proxmox is a double edge sword. I want to use them, however on ZFS the data is stored as a dataset and zvol for VMs. Dataset does not compress well as compared to zvol. I have the record size set to 1M for both and based on the config of my container the disk space usage was 22 gig, based on the same config for my VM was using 1.8 gig. the RAM usage difference between the two was about 150 Mb so not much between them. Ubuntu Server 20 runs about 350 MB at boot. Containers are more performant than VM as there is no para virtualization of resources and have the native performance of the Host Machine. Also with containers you cannot run no Kernel Space applications only User Space
At 9:00 - .... where you talk about migration of VMs and Containers. What if that container or VM has attached to it a second storage which belongs specifically on the current server only. How a VM/Container like that could be migrated? I am asking that because this is my case and havent found yet a solution except if I had a shared storage from which a part of it belongs to the VM/container I would like to move. That way the mount point would still be valid in the new location and the mount point for the VM/Container would be taken care of by proxmox itself I suppose???
PS Is there a case that after migration the second attached storage of the VM/Container still remain on the old node and only the VM will move to the new node?
If I have only one server and would only use one VM at a time, would the VM be my choice on a home PC? Thanks
Nice photos in the background, not everyone has the flame and horsehead nebulas on their wall. Looks like you are into astrophotography. Which galaxy is that btw?
I may be wrong but i think the template labels are backwards ... the "container template" has an icon that looks like a VM and visa-versa. I'm just getting started but noticed this and it surprised me. Maybe I'm missing some special secret only shared by more experienced users :)
ahhh nevermind ... possibly you misspoke when you introduce the icons or more likely my ADHD kicked in and got me thinking backwards. Anyway, the icons do appear consistent.
I as confused also but rewound the video to figure out why, I think I got thrown by not knowing what was being pointed at by the mouse pointer.
So, what if I have nginx and php (CI4, backend) + nodejs (Nuxt.js frontend) app and I want to put it in proxmox, should I use container or vm ? my server is only have intel core i7, 8gb ram, and 500gb ssd. I still kinda confused.
12:17, but that critic point goes also to VMs as well from my experience. I've had a video converter, running inside a VM and the vendor acted strange on that, also wanted to deny me support. Well the reason was, the software needed specific environment properties on that Windows machine, older dependencies and localization settings which didn't match my host machine, and if I would change that for the sake of that software, it would break other things. So I decided: "Well, I give you your own environment the way you need it." There I stomp my feet on the ground and said: "If your software wouldn't be such a picky b**** than I wouldn't need that VM! I have a European time settings, but your software expects the whole world to be set on US Time settings? So what are we talking about?" and then the question have been done in that regard and the support continued. Needless to say that I stopped using that software because ... things got worse, lets summary it like that.
But I don't get the complaints of software vendors in that regard, it's much easier to manage and diagnose when you don't have the side effects of other software, and as seen in that VM: You can adjust the environment to the needs of that particular software as well.
Edit: Yeah that sounds a little bit aggressive, but after a lot of issue I was running into with that software, after weeks(!) I tailored that VM to be the perfect environment, performance tests over and over, just for the sake of get that software running that vendor came from the "side line" are me complaining about the VM? I put so much effort into optimizing that so that useless complaint hit a nerve there. So if you are wondering as a vendor, why your customer is doing that, you better ask him why he's doing it like that and not straight up complaint at him.
If you have a VM setup on Proxmox which hosts a VM which runs Docker, can we live migrate the docker services across by migrating the containing VM? Maybe this is trying too hard and you're really in the Kubernetes area now?
It is possible for LXC to use CRIU , so container not restarted, but paused while migrating.
do you think containers is safe for vps hosting company?
If you really needed containers that never went down, you would set up Kubernetes inside proxmox VM's
make a video please
I consider Docker containers to be entirely different than LXC containers. Docker is for an app - or a process - while a LXC can actually run an entire server. If you doubt this, just head on over to the Docker discussion and explain that you are trying to configure your "server" on docker - then prepare to be abused.
Just saying; Docker Containers are a different use case.
@@jameswhite8697 Docker is just a management layer on top of LXC and therefore so I think for most cases they are the SAME use case but if you're distinguishing based some of the niceties that Docker layers no top then fair enough but really the core capability that Docker provides is exposing LXC in a user friendly way.
@@yankee-in-london LOL. That's great until you run into "the Docker Community" and you are not using it EXACTLY as they recommend. If you need an entire server, you need LXC. If you need a single-purpose app or service, then the Docker people will help you. And that works fine for me.
8:45 The virtual machine migrated from one host to another hotlist very quickly but isn’t that at least partially because it was a small VM. The larger the virtual machine, the more time it would take to migrate, correct?
Excellent, thanks. Toward the end you mention containers aren't optimal "for everything". I'm running a new, tiny app (pi-hole) in a container and it's stopping with "Disconnecting... (detecting migration...)" shown in the console. No activity on my part. I have no idea what this means. Can you point me in the right direction? Noob, obviously. Thanks.
I haven't personally tried running Pi-hole in a container, and I haven't run across that particular error. Getting things to run in containers is trial and error, and sometimes it just doesn't work out. If the effort to get it working in a container is more work than it's worth for you, I'd just run it in a virtual machine.
Can I use different brands and specs of Hardware for live migration?
I think so. It's a software feature in Proxmox itself so there shouldn't be many hardware limitations except that all physical servers should be on the same LAN.
I'm not sure "available resources" would be the correct answer to "VM or Container" in a job interview. I would frown at it and "Hmm..."
The default for an application is a container unless it requires specific hardware virtualisation or you want to actually run an bespoke OS for some reason. Another usual solid case for a VM is if users are going to log into it. Desktop OSes are often just remote VMs in work these days. (VDIs).
For example, all of my "applications" run in docker. The VMs are used for 8Gb 6 core Windows dev machine (so I can access it from any PC) and a 6Gb Linux Dev machine (same reason).
I have been doing all this by hand, with just VirutalBox and docker-compose.
Building a new server, definitely tempted to Proxmox it this time. Watching your videos to make a decision while I wait on the last of the hardware arriving.
Hello My question what is Pve1 and Pve2, it is a separate host machine. please clearfy.
I guess that when you say hosts (ex. moving a vm to another host), you're referring to a node, right?
I'm lucky to have an IBM server with 768gig of ram. 72 cpu threads.
Just for the default Apache web page, right?
Oh stop bragging. 😉😆 That sounds like some bit of kit. Is this yours to use at home or in your job? I wouldn't have any use for such a massive resource but it's always nice to have massive over kill. Well, until you get your electricity bill.
Even luckier to have a platform in which to flex your server.
Electric bill: -4755.900$ /m
Can you do another proxmox series this time covering it's API and metrics
I am still learning about proxmox before I try it. But this container side of things kind of sounds like a very barebones docker installation. The whole migration of containers aspect and many other advanced features like that, are probably handled better by using something like Kubernetes. But that's a whole other story :).
While both are based on LXC,, Docker has specialized in process-specific containers. You'll find that you might run Kubernetes on Proxmox for your Docker containers, but you'll run your ERP software in a Proxmox container because it has so many dependent - and often changing - components.
Later on you'll be hard pressed to decide sometimes if Docker or LXC is the right solution; both have both plusses and minuses. But they are not for the same purpose.
Great and easy to follow tutorials with so many details! I'm trying to create a VM or Container with an Arm CPU (or simulation) in order to run a Raspberry pi img. Has someone ideas on how to achieve this?
I think There is a video out on YT that says how to install Proxmox on the PI.
@@harrysearia1784 Thanks for your feedback.
Unfortunately I want to do the other way. I'd like to run any pi IMG systems as a VM or CT on proxmox.
For example, I have multiple pi's running Moode audio, to sync them together you need a dedicated pi, but why not have it running on my home lab that is always on anyway. I could get Moode audio run on a docker CT but I had to resize the IMG, no network,...
Anyway, if it would be possible to run any pi IMG on proxmox it would be great to see a tuto on that. 😉
@@YM-xz6xt ohhhhh gotcha. I haven't seen that yet. Sounds kool though.
@@YM-xz6xt Hey Y M, Search for the title
Install Raspberry pi Desktop OS on Proxmox
@@harrysearia1784 Hey Harry Searia, I saw the video you are relating to, but this is for a default destkop setup (via installation steps from external disk just like any distro). Many PI ISO are just images that has to be written over to a micro SD and when the Pi boots it just load what is on the micro SD without installation steps to follow.
May be I was not able to achieve the following, but one more disadvantage of CT is we cannot pass-through a USB device to CTs.
I use containers whenever possible. The problems seem to rear their ugly head when doing "exotic" network things. I finally gave up trying to get openvpn to play nicely.
2 issues with LXC:
1- not easy to mount the storage under container - probably easier to use mp
2- user ID/group ID are high, and some apps are not happy about it
Could lxc on proxmox running a windows vm?
Lxc is more for single processes and not really whole operating systems. If it's even possible it would most likely be better to just make a full VM in Proxmox.
It's 5AM I'm aging rapidly & shouldn't be launching anything at this point but I'm impatient w/ idle 64gb ram & empty nvme I'll just watch one more video and do nothing right now but watch😵💫
To my knowledge, the OS that runs within a container, has to be the same OS that runs on the host machine. A Linux container can only be created on a Linux host. It cannot be created on a windows host. So, when considering whether to create a VM or a container, shouldn’t this issue be a deciding factor as well, in addition to the ones you mentioned in the video?
You can run a container with different OS from the host. As long as the host OS can run the container runtime.
Start 01:32
So in short, containers use less resources, but virtual machines can stay on without shutting down in many cases.
4:04 Gibbi Bytes? Not sure how I feel about that.
I just bought 64GB of RAM for my new build for only like $150.. And thats 2x32GB so I can upgrade to 128GB if I wanted to
You're giving a BAD example: You are migrating a VM on a shared storage and a CT on a local storage. If you put the VM on a local storage it would get a shutdown too
Gee Stephan, why so aggressive?
Maybe you're right. But why not just giving a hint instead of an aggressive "BAD"?
He is producing great content, and it's FREE ...for you too ;-)
Stay save out there.
@@TradersTradingEdge Sorry, but my intention wasn't agressive and the overall video still recieved a thumb up, but he is comparing to defferent things and this is still a BAD example
@@TradersTradingEdge And one last thing: He is not doing this for free. He has ads in his videos, so he earns money with it and since I got an YT-premium account I kind of paying for this. But in one point you are right: He is producing good content
I still don't know "what" a container is from this video ... is it docker? is it some other software? why not simply use a VM running docker instead of proxmox containers?
It's like you're afraid of scratching the surface and going just a tiny bit deeper with your info to make your viewers a bit more knowledgeable and confident in their own trials.
Always a fan and I have learnt so much about PVE from your content. However I do feel many times some of your explanation is so long and repeated that one might feel getting out of the context. No offence. Just my personal thought. For e.g. the actual content based on the subject doesn’t start until mid of the video and many narration simply keeps repeating or showing what a user can already see on the screen. Like you are talking about the CT vs VM migration and in the middle you digress many times talking about your cluster and such. Ihe entire rhythm is gone multiple times while someone is trying to focus on the real topic and narration that you created this video about in the first place. :-). cheers
Couldn't make it past the intro. Cut the fat.
First