Respect for being honest and talking about the potential drawbacks of only doing AD presses, even though it’s a lift that you yourself popularised in the community. Too many influencers out there are dogmatic and promote their way as the “best” way, without nuance.
As a combat athlete, the OHP (strict and push) and weighted pull-ups have been fundamental to building upper-body strength while maintaining a stable weight and being injury-resistant. The gains are slower, but I’m also practicing my sport 4-6x/week. I got the ideas here. I fucking appreciate your knowledge, Alex. As always, RESPECT.
You guys are actual pioneers of modern natural bodybuilding and I appreciate all the work and effort you guys put in in order to discover and further progress
I absolutely 100% agree, was literally nodding along as you spoke. Lifters sometimes get way too caught up in strict hypertrophy arguments, neglecting factors like joint health, mobility, and enjoyment. There is a place for maximising force output, but abandoning foundational exercises is not the way to go about it, especially one that is already all too commonly neglected - the OHP! I recently came back from a long break and have prioritised vertical pressing, especially the OHP. My shoulders feel better than they ever have before, even despite me going hard and heavy on the OHP. Your content actually pushed me onto specialising on the OHP and I am very thankful for it, much appreciated!
I once got up to 170 for 1 on the standing OHP, a bw 1rm. But this lift is really finicky with strength. I hurt my shoulder, also got sick, and took a lot of time off. I now got my bw back up to 161, with almost all my gains back, yet I was absolutely spitting to hit 105 for 5 on the OHP recently. This lift is unforgiving. Every single pound and rep is earned. Really seperates the men from the boys.
Dude you’re a coward you claim you’re believe in the lord but you never have asked for forgiveness for liking the neo posts . A true hypocrite and phony . You just using faith as a way to justify your superior morality just like the noble natty title you don’t actually believe in anything if so you would’ve apologized .
the part about rotator cuff health is so real. i used to be sooooo messed up in he shoulders until i did a OHP specialization some months ago inspired by you, i got bigger, stronger and i didnt even notice the pain went away until i watched this video!
@@knottedtwig3289 I do! A typical shoulder workout for me would be 3x dumbell OHP, 3x smith OHP + 1 light set untill faliure, and finishing with 3x double lateral raise dropset. It has worked wonders!
Something I borrowed from alex is pressing at 90 degrees seated with no back support, adding my spin on it using behind the neck press. I have pretty good mobility from swimming and with a thumbs distance grip I can get full rom comfortably, I get more trap/lateral delt gains while doing "prehab" from a completely vertical press always feeling sore the day after and my shoulder aches completely gone. Each incline angle is just cogs in a machine for a big ohp.Brilliant video Alex!
I do both the AD press and the ohp. I think the standing ohp does much more than just building the shoulders. I noticed insane trap growth, and it's great for the abs because of the instability factor.
Yeah, i feel my lats and traps contract as f**k the moment before the lockout on the OHP and i'm essentially warmed up for the back work after. My guess is a similar approach to how some have with the deadlift and the rack pull might be something to do with the AD press and OHP? As in alternating them weekly (week 1 ohp, week 2 ad and so on)
It's rare to find a single movement that I can directly attribute big gains to, but I swear, the seated behind the neck press with an ez-curl bar and no back support has done wonders for my shoulders. High reps, and a big stretch make all the difference in terms of safety and stimulus.
@@Kinta02 nah, i grip pretty narrow on overhead presses. The curve of the bar fits really nicely against the back of my neck and makes pressing more comfortable. It all contributes to being able to sink the bar really deep and get a good stretch. Might just be my build, but it just feels right
@@Kinta02 nah, i grip pretty narrow on overhead presses. Towards the edges of the bar, but not quite at the flat part. The curve of the bar fits really nicely against the back of my neck and makes pressing more comfortable. It all contributes to being able to sink the bar really deep and get a good stretch. Might just be my build, but it just feels right
@@zup9819 hah damn that sounds crazy just imagining it. I also grip close on ohp but btn I assumed it would be borderline impossible! I gotta give it a try in time! thanks!
I alternate my primary pressing movement on ME days between a vertical and horizontal variation. This still allows me to maintain and strain through heavy, hard overhead singles whilst utilizing the AD press as a secondary/accessory to really build more muscle and drive through plateaus due to the added stability and support.
got my new PR, 65 kg 7 reps standing OHP. my shoulders never felt this good man. My god I've been following ur advices and i've been improving and improving, keep making the great content man
I had bad genetics , so i thought . This is my old dp now i have a six pack and a shredded model body . Thanks Alex for everything. Cant bless u enough
I still like and regularly do standing overhead press. I like the natural feeling flow of starting with a slight lean to fully upright with head pushed through the arm “window.” It’s just a good functional movement. And yes, it keeps you humble with weight and mobility. When I’m the only one grinding out the last few OHPs, people actually take notice, even though that’s not what I’m going for. Not enough people doing that overhead grind.
Guys im writing this comment cuz is used to have SEVERE shoulder pain when doing LITTERALLY anything, at some point i couldnt even do pushups cuz it hurts soo much but then i started OHP, it used to hurt so i stopped but then i inlcuded dumbell external rotations which CHNAGED EVERYTHING. AFter a few weeks i had no more pain on OHP and my shoulder got soo mucj stronger, in fact now its a strong point. SO GUYS plz dont do a workout plannign without OHP or 80° presss because trust me the shoulders do a lot in everything (u can make a secondary exercice but plz include it smh). THey stabuilioze and help for the bakc biceps triceps chest and LITTERALLY ANYTHING (maybe not calves but you get it). THks alex i respect your work because it has changed me a lot, im only at 1y of training but this channel has spared me months/year of future shoulder pain soo thks a lot.
I needed to hear this. I used to never get low back pain, but after a year of minimizing low back involvement, lately my back has started hurting from getting weak. Swapping standing movements for seated & chest supported rows for bent rows & cable rdl instead of regular rdl has been bad for me. As you said, you need some of both - supported AND unsupported movements.
I'm glad you mentioned this. It made me think about making he supported movements more dominant, but now, I think I'll stick with the unsupported movements being dominant in my strength training.
@@jessperna7916 thank you brother. Today I did benchpress and deadlift. I want to start focusing on bent over rows more. I think it'll be good for my whole posterior chain.
Thank you for the wonderful content you put out! Many new and beginner lifters (like me) take away very important lessons and lifting philosophies! I incorporated the seated OHP a few months ago, and it made my shoulders bigger and healthier! They feel very good now and I don't think I will ever get shoulder pain, even in old age. Much love from germany!
Thanks for dropping the knowledge about good form and setting aside ego towards the end. OHP progressive overload has always been a grind for me, but this was the motivation I needed to just focus on good clean reps and keep chipping away at it. Awesome video, thank you!
I love OHP. Because of an imbalance (right delt especially is puny compared to left), my main forms of it when bulking are seated unilateral db shoulderpress (sudbsp) and regular standing OHP, starting from the floor. The first lift I ever trained. I got the imbalance because I was oblivious to my uneven form early on, and it just compounded over time, despite me being aware for years now.
Ohp is my favourite lift. I hit 180lbs today. This is only 1.5 years running naturally enhanced and doing ohp minibands for hypertrophy and mixing in z presses.
@@morris9337 it’s Alex book on how to train. It’s got pre written programs in it, it’s a good book but you have to tailor it to your own needs and weaknesses. You also have to be strong enough to run this program, as in benching 225 for 5, 315 squat for 5 and trapbar deadlift for 405 for 5. But these numbers scale differently and some people stop making progress sooner. Tbh my program has drastically changed since I read the book, but the template and principles were extremely helpful.
@@sitaramsharma675 started out with a full body 2x a week. I used naturally enhanced template which consists of 4 programs week 1-4. My starting variations were close grip ohp 1rm, wide grip ohp paused, landmine press 1rm and Viking press 1rm. But over the few years my program changed drastically. It all depends on your weakness and where you fail with the max effort variation. So for example if I’m failing off the chest, I need to do more paused ohp. In my case, my sticking point was always locking out, so I started experimenting with tricep based vertical pressing variations such as close grip ohp with mini bands. Over time I actually came away from ohp specilastion and adopted a 50-50 ratio between ohp and bench pressing. And I also started including hypertrophy work with ohp, such as 3x12 with a slow eccentric and a pause along side back off sets 2x7 @ 82% and including one amrap set after any max effort variation wether it be horizontal or vertical pressing. This alone blew up my overhead press. A few other highly beneficial variations were z presses at chin level - if you have problems with finishing a one rep max at the lockout. Everything else is just simple, eat enough try to sleep as much as you can and never give up
Hey man I used to watch a ton of your videos many years ago and recently came back to them as I've reintroduced social media. Your 405lbs bench methodology videos have given me some framework that's allowed me to put on 30lbs to my bench press from 315lbs so great stuff. Also the name change looks great for channel.
I am a close-grip Pre$$er. I like a thumbs-length grip for all pushing and pulling movements. You look great. Keep on repping and pre$$ing bro. You really inspired me to keep pushing at 64yrs young. I currently can do seated 65 degrees inclined-bench incline barbell pre$$ @ 115 x 7. I also do seated and standing pre$$e$ with dumbbells. Bdywt pull-ups/chin-ups & dips and thumbs-length flat-bench/feet-up.
Nothing feels cooler than OHP, I'm back to doing these at least once a week. I missed them so much and my shoulders feel better already. Love the videos 💪
Thanks to your video way back when I actually used light OHP with a shrug at the top to rehab a torn labrum. It took months of banded rotator cuff work to get to that point but my shoulder health is phenomenal and even still I shrug all my OHP at the top. Definitely prefer strict OHP to AD as I get some shoulder pain from not being able to fully rotate my scapula. Mainly on the side I injured many years ago. I get a similar pain on the incline bench as well.
I've been focusing heavily on OHP for the last several months. It's a fun lift, but yeah... standing OHP can be fairly fatiguing. Right now it's hammering my upper chest, serratus and triceps. I will probably experiment with pre-fatiguing my front delts. Probably in the next block I'll rotate my main variation (either to BTN or seated BB). I'll probably keep in a standing variation for at least one of my workouts. Despite having to stabilize harder (and perhaps a little less weight than seated), I do feel like it really emphasizes trunk / shoulder stability which is just helpful across the board. It just absolutely roasts my serratus, which has been a weak spot for me in the past (perhaps contributing to some prior shoulder injuries). Since I've been doing all my overhead pressing first...and it really fatigues my triceps, I've put more of my chest volume to isolation (pec deck mostly) and wider grip decline chest presses that aren't as tricep focused for me. It's a good compromise - I'm really loving the stretch focus for pecs. I absolutely agree about the vertical pressing work helping your shoulder mobility and rotator cuff help. The other stuff that is super useful for shoulder health is rows with an upper back focus (wider grip / more elbow flare).
I guess for perspective, standing OHP can be fatiguing for how I'm running it. My heavy day is 3x3 + 2x10 OHP with weighted pullups superset in. Just by itself, BB OHP is not bad at all. With lighter sets, it's quite refreshing (but damn do they burn 🔥🔥🔥)
Our Boy Alex representing with Dr. Mike and doing it as a natural 🙌🏼 I’m finally coming around my nervous system is back I’m knockin it out’a the park! I’m finally able to add more then just chest/arms and legs. I’m starting to figure out and fit in some pull work ( shoulder and back) i feel really good it’s taken a few years but now i can really get started and i look awesome, now i can really define “me”. It’s more than just becoming a big play toy for the Females, Ive been through some💩…. I needed this, I needed all this 💪🏼 (something real)
I'm dealing with a shoulder injury, and standing OHP has been my number one pushing exercise, using it for high sets-low reps with short rest intervals. Leaves my shoulders pumping and helps as a rehab tool.
The strict press is my all time favorite exercise. Unfortunately, since starting my home gym, I've only been doing seated variations because the ceilings are not high enough for me (6'2") to stand. I rarely go to the gym anymore, but when I do, I usually test my OHP. Thus far, I have maintained my strength with the AD press, and I feel like I would blow away my old numbers with just a few weeks back at it.
Back supported seated OHP feels like a variation of very high incline bench press. I prefer unsupported OHP whether seated or standing. My joints move more freely and in natural groove. It is something I prefer over stability of back support.
Invaluable info for me in this one. Like Alex, I switched over to bodybuilding and my programs are vastly different now that I'm hypertrophy focused. I brought in the AD press in place of the OHP (my favorite press) for obvious reason. I made adjustments in my program to account for the loss of stability training I get from OHP, but I overlooked the mobility aspect. However, I did bring in a SA DB OHP and my own creation of a neutral grip cable Z-press (yeah, it's out there). While those are effective for hypertrophy, they're not intense enough to simulate what the OHP provides. I'm finished with my first phase this Friday, and will reprogram over the weekend. This gives me something to think about.
I swapped out standing for seated OHP early last year when my low back was jacked up and I couldn’t take doing standing anymore. Made great progress on seated and did 155lbs for 6,5,4 my last go at it at 165lbs. Sticking with that only for this current bulk/cut cycle that’ll run into June but will probably re-introduce standing after that.
My Shoulder work consists of : -Thumb-less Close grip Ohp for 4 sets a week (bar touches the clavicle) -Upright Row (to chin level) -Lu Raises -DB Reverse fly total 15 sets a week is plenty and it would be 18 if we counted the Incline Db Bench ! __________ i switched from Normal grip Ohp to Close grip since i watched your video and i managed to progress to my Normal Grip Ohp weights which is 50kg for 4 reps .. (also i find it to be more comfortable and stable honestly but my weight dropped but i managed to get it back up)
I do overhead press because it makes me feel like I am pushing myself every time. I am only hitting 95 lbs at this point but given that I have less than a year of lifting under my belt I feel GREAT about it. Onward and upward! I also do incline bench on smith at a 45 degree angle and traditional bench press. Combined these movements are doing good things. Thanks for another great video!
My goal is to get extremely strong in standing OVH press. Im 190lbs 14% bf but I can only press 105lbs for 8 reps, which isn’t very strong for someone of my size at 6 ft. I’d rather have an extremely strong OVH press than a huge bench as how many guys do you know that cant press 2 plates for reps over the head? Plus it can lead to much better aesthetics if you combine it with upright rows, supinated front raises, bent over lateral raises, and incline barbell bench, your aesthetics will be unmatched as well as being wicked strong!
There’s been a ton of stuff coming out from enhanced lifters on TH-cam advocating for isolation and against pressing. In my first couple years lifting naturally I wasn’t doing any heavy pressing, just lighter dumbbell presses and isolation work, and hammering my shoulders. I was never happy with the growth I saw in my shoulders until I started to take pressing seriously and add weight to the exercise. I attribute at least 90% of my delt growth now to pressing, 10% isolation work. In fact, it was my experience that isolation exercises were almost useless until I started pressing by heavy and adding them in as accessory work only.
Thank you Alex,for all the info you provide to the natty community!You are someone i can really look upto interms of pushing both my strength and size.Saw your rp video wid dr mike it was 🔥.
I broke my arm and dislocated my shoulder riding bulls. My shoulder felt unstable for three years after that, but when I started standing OHP and gained a little strength my shoulder felt stable and healthy. After gaining a small amount of strength in OHP I could hit the heavy bag again without fear of injuring my shoulder.
Wide-grip pull-ups are awesome, but they sometimes cause a little pain in my left shoulder. Interesting to hear that OHP might help. One of my main goals is increased reps of freestanding HSPU.
I realised this mistake a few months ago. I was strictly doing the AD press with the smith BTN press and stopped the standing press. But when I went back to it, my strength actually decreased and not because of my shoulder strength, but because of my core stability! I just couldn’t do it like I used to when standing press was the main variation. My whole core grew weaker as a result which resulted in lower numbers.
I don’t even want big delts, I’m on the same thing as NH which is having arms that dwarf the delts… however I DO want to be able to press a man’s squat, so it is what it is
im loving your videos always helps my training motivates me standing OHP is my number one shoulder and scapular builder I do all sorts of ways to tax my delts with it 1 minute rest lighter weight and as many sets to tire my shoulders out or go heavy rest 3 minutes and as many reps I can get with 3 sets sometimes I like doing high rep dumbbell shoulder presses then do the standing OHP with barbell heavy is good as well I like doing a pause going slow up and slow down so many ways to train shoulders with doing it you can do normal grip or wide grip for side delts
Imo as you get more advanced/stronger ohp isnt the best variation for strength/hypertrophy gains because of more stability demands but its still a great movement for keeping your shoulders healthy and maintaining shoulder mobility. 1 set is perfect as you say because you can do other movements for strength/hypertrophy building while 1 set of ohp will be enough to maintain shoulder mobility and health as well as still getting some secondary stimulus after other movements done prior.
These are great! I’ve stopped doing standing because of my limited thoracic mobility causing my lower back to excessively arch to get the bar over my head. Feels much safer to me and I feel like I can keep doing vertical pressing without putting myself at risk.
I am a big fan of standing OHP both conventional and behind the neck. I've gotten in on One hand clean and dumbbell press again as well recently. Shoulders feel great, and I'm closing in on a bodyweight OHP.
I figured out natural hypertrophy was right too. I think it’s smart to have a 50 : 50 ratio with bench and vertical presses. For example I do max effort bench and then on volume day I’ll do ohp for hypertrophy work, I feel less injured doing this. It’s a similar concept to mixing squats and deadlifts with the 3:1 ratio. I’m going to try alternating seated and standing ohp too
I think the OHP is comparable to barbell rows in the sense that your body naturally tries to cheat as the weight starts to approach your BW and so tracking progression is very difficult unless you work in the higher rep range (10-15). I prefer the seated AD press and t-bar rows instead.
I couldn’t imagine not doing an OHP for shoulders. Barbell, dumbbell, trap bar (like that neutral grip a lot!)…seated or standing…just pick a couple/few and get after it. Front and side delts will thank you. I see an awful lot of people doing cable lateral raises instead of OHP variations and feel they are missing the big picture.
Have been doing standing overhead press with the trap bar recently and it blew up my shoulders. Feels like a better behind the neck press thats wayyy easier on the shoulders and wrists. Plus it feels like it hits the side delt alot more than standard.
When I stopped doing OHP, my shoulder started hurting during bench after 3-4 months. When I start OHP included again, I had no problem pressing pain free. Wisdom comes at a price :D
I have experience of ditching all shoulder pressing ,not just OHP after listening to Mike Israetel talk about it in a video. This led to me getting even MORE of a front delt pump during chest presses. My theory is because the shoulders weren't being developed separately so became the limiting factor, or were getting the workload from chest pressing that they should from shoulder pressing. As soon as I went back to training shoulder presses, 2-3 sets per week, I went back to NOT feeling the shoulders when training chest and having great chest pumps and contraction. I repeated the whole experiment a second time with similar results too. Might be interesting to someone.
Interesting. What about any differences in shoulder development? I honestly hate the OHP. Partially because of poor shoulder mobility. But mostly because I’m so weak with that lift! I’ve tried them seated with dumbbells and back support, but it just seems like standing with a barbell and progressively overloading would be best. I’m only a couple of weeks into implementing them again and still don’t care for them…but will continue to do them until I love them! lol
The standing press is irreplaceable. It’s an overall body strength builder. Not only a delt exercise especially if you incorporate heavy cleaning before strict pressing.
Great, I saw Dan Green say one time that he did a lot of seated dumbbell military press overhead press in college and his shoulders got huge and he never stop doing them
OHP (I train at home and don't have an adjustable bench, just a normal flat bench). I also think that the OHP targets the rear delts a bit more than the standing OHP too, ergo, giving the delts a completely rounded look.
Over the last two months I have run a daily high volume standing OHP (25 to 100 reps a workout) program. My shoulders exploded, I don't even recognize myself. My traps grew pretty well too (Head "going through" at the top of each reps for trap contraction and mobility work). Now its time to make the transfer to the HSPU, which has been a goal of mine for a while
I never tried doing seated barbell OHP. I always figured this variation (using a barbell) should be done only standing. I will do the dumbbell OHP seated, but only for 1-2 months per year.
Funny Mike Israetel just made a video few days ago saying basically the opposite: no need for OHP and if anything, do it sited.Good points both, food for thought.
Now I exclusively do behind the neck press. Very strong and mobile shoulders now, even better development than conventional OHP too and no loss in strength/bigger triceps.
Done two cycles with even working sets of AD & OHP, on a new cycle with just AD due to volume cut. Shoulders feeling something not quite right. This video explained it all 👍 planning to add back some OHP drop sets.
This is such a broscientist take on my part, but I just can't get as excited about the seated shoulder press variants whereas there is just something about the OHP that gets me hyped up to PR on it, and because I've psyched myself into it, I take it much more seriously. I don't run into stability issues because I train in high rep ranges. I do at times need to rotate it out, and when I do I've got a nice hammer strength plate loaded shoulder press that I'll use for a few weeks, then its back to OHP.
If you are a leaner/lankier lifter, you are limited by stability, but not like you would think. You loose position more easily breathing at the top, and you bleed energy easier. Take one of your leaner/lankier lifters, and put them on a pin press where they can breathe at the bottom. They will get three to 5 reps more even though it's considered a disadvantage. They get to start from a strong position on each rep instead of the position they broke down to breathing under load. So stability isn't really limiting force production, but lack of stability is draining them before they get to produce the force in the first place. You gotta be careful training stability, you don't wanna go full Seedtard, but I am a fan of heavy waiters walks for attacking this weakness. You are stabilizing at the top, and breathing. Not stabilizing something chaotic and trying to press it at the same time. So it's a valid means of developing stability, and maintaining it while breathing. It's also great for building work capacity. It sucks very badly.
What I love in this channel content is: getting facts from personnal experience unlike others who made videos about researches Yes both are good but we need something snowy and real like yours Hope you added some scientific research and apply them, then you share your opinion and progress after 6 weeks at least
the grind in that first clip was wild
It's very impressive to see all those little muscles in his triceps firing like that.
6 second rep lol, think he had one more
@@TheBcoolGuythat’s a pec tendon in the bicep canyon
@@NDPFitnessreally? The twitching is happening in triceps longhead
Yeah learning to struggle like that is awesome. You just figure out if u can't make it u just slowly go down which is safe af.
Respect for being honest and talking about the potential drawbacks of only doing AD presses, even though it’s a lift that you yourself popularised in the community.
Too many influencers out there are dogmatic and promote their way as the “best” way, without nuance.
its cause Alex is the goat & actually cares about his audience
Great takeaways on the overhead press discussed. I like how you mentioned fatigued / injury from personal experience bro
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Ive started doing super wide grip pull ups, rear delt rows and seated Barbell OHP recently due to you.
Man im loving the movements.
You're gonna get super jacked with these 3, mark my words!
@@AlexLeonidasdo you recommend doing incline chest dumbbell press and incline chest barbell press in the same workout ?
super wide grip hurts my elbow so bad :(
is there any tips to not hurt the elbow?
@@muscularchristianity7 honestly I don't feel it in my elbows like that so I can't really help therr
What variation of rear delt rows?
You are pretty straightforward..as soon as the video begins you just come to the point ..love this approach which most influencers lack
As a combat athlete, the OHP (strict and push) and weighted pull-ups have been fundamental to building upper-body strength while maintaining a stable weight and being injury-resistant. The gains are slower, but I’m also practicing my sport 4-6x/week. I got the ideas here.
I fucking appreciate your knowledge, Alex. As always, RESPECT.
You guys are actual pioneers of modern natural bodybuilding and I appreciate all the work and effort you guys put in in order to discover and further progress
Standing OHP & Wide-Grip Pull Ups (weighted) TRANSFORMED my upper body physique like no other
Indeed.
I absolutely 100% agree, was literally nodding along as you spoke. Lifters sometimes get way too caught up in strict hypertrophy arguments, neglecting factors like joint health, mobility, and enjoyment. There is a place for maximising force output, but abandoning foundational exercises is not the way to go about it, especially one that is already all too commonly neglected - the OHP!
I recently came back from a long break and have prioritised vertical pressing, especially the OHP. My shoulders feel better than they ever have before, even despite me going hard and heavy on the OHP. Your content actually pushed me onto specialising on the OHP and I am very thankful for it, much appreciated!
I once got up to 170 for 1 on the standing OHP, a bw 1rm. But this lift is really finicky with strength. I hurt my shoulder, also got sick, and took a lot of time off. I now got my bw back up to 161, with almost all my gains back, yet I was absolutely spitting to hit 105 for 5 on the OHP recently. This lift is unforgiving. Every single pound and rep is earned. Really seperates the men from the boys.
I can absolutely relate to OHP being essential for rotator cuff health, I think NH was bang on the money with that take.
Dude you’re a coward you claim you’re believe in the lord but you never have asked for forgiveness for liking the neo posts . A true hypocrite and phony . You just using faith as a way to justify your superior morality just like the noble natty title you don’t actually believe in anything if so you would’ve apologized .
the part about rotator cuff health is so real. i used to be sooooo messed up in he shoulders until i did a OHP specialization some months ago inspired by you, i got bigger, stronger and i didnt even notice the pain went away until i watched this video!
I started doing seated OHP recently and I´ve gained some noticeable strenght! All thank to you Alex
Me too on the smith machine, shoulders looking like a basketball 🏀
@@yng27seated smith machine ohp? Do you use a bench or no
@@GameZero2 Yep on an incline bench at 75 degrees
I love this! I have been doing seated ohp on smith machine for a year now, increasing the stability even further. my shoulders have grown massively
Do you prefer smith machine over regular barbell OHP?
@@knottedtwig3289 I do! A typical shoulder workout for me would be 3x dumbell OHP, 3x smith OHP + 1 light set untill faliure, and finishing with 3x double lateral raise dropset. It has worked wonders!
@@asgermadsen2296 thanks! I'll try that on my press day!
100% facts in this vid. Alex is one of the OG natty TH-camrs and only speaks facts. Awesome content dude
Preciate you Tony!
Something I borrowed from alex is pressing at 90 degrees seated with no back support, adding my spin on it using behind the neck press. I have pretty good mobility from swimming and with a thumbs distance grip I can get full rom comfortably, I get more trap/lateral delt gains while doing "prehab" from a completely vertical press always feeling sore the day after and my shoulder aches completely gone. Each incline angle is just cogs in a machine for a big ohp.Brilliant video Alex!
I do both the AD press and the ohp. I think the standing ohp does much more than just building the shoulders. I noticed insane trap growth, and it's great for the abs because of the instability factor.
Yeah, i feel my lats and traps contract as f**k the moment before the lockout on the OHP and i'm essentially warmed up for the back work after.
My guess is a similar approach to how some have with the deadlift and the rack pull might be something to do with the AD press and OHP? As in alternating them weekly (week 1 ohp, week 2 ad and so on)
I also do them both, but the AD press is with dumbells. I do one set each to failure on a seperate say along with arms. To me thats enough volume.
It's rare to find a single movement that I can directly attribute big gains to, but I swear, the seated behind the neck press with an ez-curl bar and no back support has done wonders for my shoulders. High reps, and a big stretch make all the difference in terms of safety and stimulus.
how would the ez-curl bar in this scenario be different? I would assume you grip on the end of the bar where its straight right?
@@Kinta02 nah, i grip pretty narrow on overhead presses. The curve of the bar fits really nicely against the back of my neck and makes pressing more comfortable. It all contributes to being able to sink the bar really deep and get a good stretch. Might just be my build, but it just feels right
@@Kinta02 nah, i grip pretty narrow on overhead presses. Towards the edges of the bar, but not quite at the flat part. The curve of the bar fits really nicely against the back of my neck and makes pressing more comfortable. It all contributes to being able to sink the bar really deep and get a good stretch. Might just be my build, but it just feels right
@@zup9819 hah damn that sounds crazy just imagining it. I also grip close on ohp but btn I assumed it would be borderline impossible!
I gotta give it a try in time! thanks!
idk for me i know pretty well which of my gains came from which movements.
I alternate my primary pressing movement on ME days between a vertical and horizontal variation. This still allows me to maintain and strain through heavy, hard overhead singles whilst utilizing the AD press as a secondary/accessory to really build more muscle and drive through plateaus due to the added stability and support.
It's amazing how articulately alex is able to present his views in every one of his videos.Adds another dimension to his videos;
got my new PR, 65 kg 7 reps standing OHP. my shoulders never felt this good man. My god I've been following ur advices and i've been improving and improving, keep making the great content man
Are your shoulders big?
@naughtiousmaximus7853 idk man, i only can tell that my strength is going up
I had bad genetics , so i thought . This is my old dp now i have a six pack and a shredded model body . Thanks Alex for everything. Cant bless u enough
I still like and regularly do standing overhead press. I like the natural feeling flow of starting with a slight lean to fully upright with head pushed through the arm “window.” It’s just a good functional movement. And yes, it keeps you humble with weight and mobility. When I’m the only one grinding out the last few OHPs, people actually take notice, even though that’s not what I’m going for. Not enough people doing that overhead grind.
I'll never stop doing standing OHP. It's just too much fun. Probably my favorite lift.
Guys im writing this comment cuz is used to have SEVERE shoulder pain when doing LITTERALLY anything, at some point i couldnt even do pushups cuz it hurts soo much but then i started OHP, it used to hurt so i stopped but then i inlcuded dumbell external rotations which CHNAGED EVERYTHING. AFter a few weeks i had no more pain on OHP and my shoulder got soo mucj stronger, in fact now its a strong point. SO GUYS plz dont do a workout plannign without OHP or 80° presss because trust me the shoulders do a lot in everything (u can make a secondary exercice but plz include it smh).
THey stabuilioze and help for the bakc biceps triceps chest and LITTERALLY ANYTHING (maybe not calves but you get it). THks alex i respect your work because it has changed me a lot, im only at 1y of training but this channel has spared me months/year of future shoulder pain soo thks a lot.
I needed to hear this. I used to never get low back pain, but after a year of minimizing low back involvement, lately my back has started hurting from getting weak. Swapping standing movements for seated & chest supported rows for bent rows & cable rdl instead of regular rdl has been bad for me. As you said, you need some of both - supported AND unsupported movements.
I'm glad you mentioned this. It made me think about making he supported movements more dominant, but now, I think I'll stick with the unsupported movements being dominant in my strength training.
@@TLSpurgeon I've also noticed my upper back gains are better from regular bent rows vs chest supported rows.
@@jessperna7916 thank you brother. Today I did benchpress and deadlift. I want to start focusing on bent over rows more. I think it'll be good for my whole posterior chain.
That RP workout was insane man. Super happy for you. Also seeing you in their video on prep vs at a normal state is mindblowing.
Thank you brother! Felt like myself :)
Reason why I love the X3 bar version of the shoulder press, it fixed my joint pain almost right away. Great advice.
Thank you for the wonderful content you put out! Many new and beginner lifters (like me) take away very important lessons and lifting philosophies! I incorporated the seated OHP a few months ago, and it made my shoulders bigger and healthier! They feel very good now and I don't think I will ever get shoulder pain, even in old age. Much love from germany!
Thanks for dropping the knowledge about good form and setting aside ego towards the end. OHP progressive overload has always been a grind for me, but this was the motivation I needed to just focus on good clean reps and keep chipping away at it. Awesome video, thank you!
I love OHP. Because of an imbalance (right delt especially is puny compared to left), my main forms of it when bulking are seated unilateral db shoulderpress (sudbsp) and regular standing OHP, starting from the floor. The first lift I ever trained. I got the imbalance because I was oblivious to my uneven form early on, and it just compounded over time, despite me being aware for years now.
What do u mean by uneven form?
I will always keep the OHP in my program it’s honestly one of my favourite lifts and the ability to use pure heavy weight is amazing.
Ohp is my favourite lift. I hit 180lbs today. This is only 1.5 years running naturally enhanced and doing ohp minibands for hypertrophy and mixing in z presses.
Well done brother!!!!!
What is naturally enchanced?
@@morris9337 it’s Alex book on how to train. It’s got pre written programs in it, it’s a good book but you have to tailor it to your own needs and weaknesses. You also have to be strong enough to run this program, as in benching 225 for 5, 315 squat for 5 and trapbar deadlift for 405 for 5. But these numbers scale differently and some people stop making progress sooner. Tbh my program has drastically changed since I read the book, but the template and principles were extremely helpful.
What training schedule u follow bro for ohp because this is a good number
@@sitaramsharma675 started out with a full body 2x a week. I used naturally enhanced template which consists of 4 programs week 1-4. My starting variations were close grip ohp 1rm, wide grip ohp paused, landmine press 1rm and Viking press 1rm. But over the few years my program changed drastically. It all depends on your weakness and where you fail with the max effort variation. So for example if I’m failing off the chest, I need to do more paused ohp. In my case, my sticking point was always locking out, so I started experimenting with tricep based vertical pressing variations such as close grip ohp with mini bands. Over time I actually came away from ohp specilastion and adopted a 50-50 ratio between ohp and bench pressing. And I also started including hypertrophy work with ohp, such as 3x12 with a slow eccentric and a pause along side back off sets 2x7 @ 82% and including one amrap set after any max effort variation wether it be horizontal or vertical pressing. This alone blew up my overhead press. A few other highly beneficial variations were z presses at chin level - if you have problems with finishing a one rep max at the lockout. Everything else is just simple, eat enough try to sleep as much as you can and never give up
Hey man I used to watch a ton of your videos many years ago and recently came back to them as I've reintroduced social media. Your 405lbs bench methodology videos have given me some framework that's allowed me to put on 30lbs to my bench press from 315lbs so great stuff. Also the name change looks great for channel.
I miss Alphadestiny
@@fuaadmohamed7926 True, but I imagine the new name is better for longevity stuff
For direct front delt work I do 2 sets of AD press for 5-8 reps on monday and 2 sets of standing BTN press for 12-15 reps.
Goodnight from Australia Sir Alex 🫡. Have an amazing day/afternoon/evening.
Good morning from Canada! Sleep well Sir Myro
I am a close-grip Pre$$er. I like a thumbs-length grip for all pushing and pulling movements. You look great. Keep on repping and pre$$ing bro. You really inspired me to keep pushing at 64yrs young. I currently can do seated 65 degrees inclined-bench incline barbell pre$$ @ 115 x 7. I also do seated and standing pre$$e$ with dumbbells. Bdywt pull-ups/chin-ups & dips and thumbs-length flat-bench/feet-up.
Nothing feels cooler than OHP, I'm back to doing these at least once a week. I missed them so much and my shoulders feel better already.
Love the videos 💪
Such a great time tested movement. I think the mobility and shoulder pain prevention are 2 of the biggest reasons to keep the OHP in.
It broke my shoulder
Thanks to your video way back when I actually used light OHP with a shrug at the top to rehab a torn labrum. It took months of banded rotator cuff work to get to that point but my shoulder health is phenomenal and even still I shrug all my OHP at the top.
Definitely prefer strict OHP to AD as I get some shoulder pain from not being able to fully rotate my scapula. Mainly on the side I injured many years ago. I get a similar pain on the incline bench as well.
Weighted dips helped me bring up my overhead press like crazy. Probably 2 of my all time favorite exercises.
I've been focusing heavily on OHP for the last several months. It's a fun lift, but yeah... standing OHP can be fairly fatiguing. Right now it's hammering my upper chest, serratus and triceps. I will probably experiment with pre-fatiguing my front delts. Probably in the next block I'll rotate my main variation (either to BTN or seated BB). I'll probably keep in a standing variation for at least one of my workouts. Despite having to stabilize harder (and perhaps a little less weight than seated), I do feel like it really emphasizes trunk / shoulder stability which is just helpful across the board. It just absolutely roasts my serratus, which has been a weak spot for me in the past (perhaps contributing to some prior shoulder injuries).
Since I've been doing all my overhead pressing first...and it really fatigues my triceps, I've put more of my chest volume to isolation (pec deck mostly) and wider grip decline chest presses that aren't as tricep focused for me. It's a good compromise - I'm really loving the stretch focus for pecs.
I absolutely agree about the vertical pressing work helping your shoulder mobility and rotator cuff help. The other stuff that is super useful for shoulder health is rows with an upper back focus (wider grip / more elbow flare).
I guess for perspective, standing OHP can be fatiguing for how I'm running it. My heavy day is 3x3 + 2x10 OHP with weighted pullups superset in. Just by itself, BB OHP is not bad at all. With lighter sets, it's quite refreshing (but damn do they burn 🔥🔥🔥)
Our Boy Alex representing with Dr. Mike and doing it as a natural 🙌🏼
I’m finally coming around my nervous system is back I’m knockin it out’a the park! I’m finally able to add more then just chest/arms and legs. I’m starting to figure out and fit in some pull work ( shoulder and back) i feel really good it’s taken a few years but now i can really get started and i look awesome, now i can really define “me”. It’s more than just becoming a big play toy for the Females, Ive been through some💩…. I needed this, I needed all this 💪🏼 (something real)
Same goes for not replacing deep pull ups/downs with optimal 120° pulls
Always a good day when Alex posts about OHP
AD Press visually grew my side delts in month of doing it. Like, I now have a clear separation between side and front delts. Crazy movement.
What's AD press?
Been benching 3x a week because it stalled at 2x. Now you got me hyped on OHP again!
I'm dealing with a shoulder injury, and standing OHP has been my number one pushing exercise, using it for high sets-low reps with short rest intervals. Leaves my shoulders pumping and helps as a rehab tool.
352k SUBS. You growing quick Alex. Keep going bro
All thanks to the community's support!!!
The strict press is my all time favorite exercise. Unfortunately, since starting my home gym, I've only been doing seated variations because the ceilings are not high enough for me (6'2") to stand. I rarely go to the gym anymore, but when I do, I usually test my OHP. Thus far, I have maintained my strength with the AD press, and I feel like I would blow away my old numbers with just a few weeks back at it.
Your pressing strength is out of this world, man.
Years of hard work&consistency.
Back supported seated OHP feels like a variation of very high incline bench press. I prefer unsupported OHP whether seated or standing. My joints move more freely and in natural groove. It is something I prefer over stability of back support.
Invaluable info for me in this one. Like Alex, I switched over to bodybuilding and my programs are vastly different now that I'm hypertrophy focused. I brought in the AD press in place of the OHP (my favorite press) for obvious reason. I made adjustments in my program to account for the loss of stability training I get from OHP, but I overlooked the mobility aspect. However, I did bring in a SA DB OHP and my own creation of a neutral grip cable Z-press (yeah, it's out there). While those are effective for hypertrophy, they're not intense enough to simulate what the OHP provides. I'm finished with my first phase this Friday, and will reprogram over the weekend. This gives me something to think about.
I swapped out standing for seated OHP early last year when my low back was jacked up and I couldn’t take doing standing anymore. Made great progress on seated and did 155lbs for 6,5,4 my last go at it at 165lbs. Sticking with that only for this current bulk/cut cycle that’ll run into June but will probably re-introduce standing after that.
My Shoulder work consists of :
-Thumb-less Close grip Ohp for 4 sets a week (bar touches the clavicle)
-Upright Row (to chin level)
-Lu Raises
-DB Reverse fly
total 15 sets a week is plenty
and it would be 18 if we counted the Incline Db Bench !
__________
i switched from Normal grip Ohp to Close grip since i watched your video and i managed to progress to my Normal Grip Ohp weights which is 50kg for 4 reps ..
(also i find it to be more comfortable and stable honestly but my weight dropped but i managed to get it back up)
I pretty much only train for hypertrophy and recently returned to OHP simply because "when lift thing over head, feel big and happy".
I do overhead press because it makes me feel like I am pushing myself every time. I am only hitting 95 lbs at this point but given that I have less than a year of lifting under my belt I feel GREAT about it. Onward and upward! I also do incline bench on smith at a 45 degree angle and traditional bench press. Combined these movements are doing good things. Thanks for another great video!
My goal is to get extremely strong in standing OVH press. Im 190lbs 14% bf but I can only press 105lbs for 8 reps, which isn’t very strong for someone of my size at 6 ft. I’d rather have an extremely strong OVH press than a huge bench as how many guys do you know that cant press 2 plates for reps over the head? Plus it can lead to much better aesthetics if you combine it with upright rows, supinated front raises, bent over lateral raises, and incline barbell bench, your aesthetics will be unmatched as well as being wicked strong!
Added AD Press to months ago but never stopped OHP. on two different days as you said here.
This is one of the best fitness content channel on TH-cam. Hands down. ❤❤❤❤❤no doubt in that
There’s been a ton of stuff coming out from enhanced lifters on TH-cam advocating for isolation and against pressing. In my first couple years lifting naturally I wasn’t doing any heavy pressing, just lighter dumbbell presses and isolation work, and hammering my shoulders. I was never happy with the growth I saw in my shoulders until I started to take pressing seriously and add weight to the exercise. I attribute at least 90% of my delt growth now to pressing, 10% isolation work. In fact, it was my experience that isolation exercises were almost useless until I started pressing by heavy and adding them in as accessory work only.
Loved seeing your collaboration with renaissance periodization Alex! Hope to see more in the future 💪🏼
Thank you Alex,for all the info you provide to the natty community!You are someone i can really look upto interms of pushing both my strength and size.Saw your rp video wid dr mike it was 🔥.
Alex, you are getting huge! Thanks for the tips.
I broke my arm and dislocated my shoulder riding bulls. My shoulder felt unstable for three years after that, but when I started standing OHP and gained a little strength my shoulder felt stable and healthy. After gaining a small amount of strength in OHP I could hit the heavy bag again without fear of injuring my shoulder.
Wide-grip pull-ups are awesome, but they sometimes cause a little pain in my left shoulder. Interesting to hear that OHP might help. One of my main goals is increased reps of freestanding HSPU.
I realised this mistake a few months ago. I was strictly doing the AD press with the smith BTN press and stopped the standing press. But when I went back to it, my strength actually decreased and not because of my shoulder strength, but because of my core stability! I just couldn’t do it like I used to when standing press was the main variation. My whole core grew weaker as a result which resulted in lower numbers.
Thanks for the quality content !
It's my pleasure to bring you this content, cheers Harash!
Finally some more content about the ohp!
You really carry the name Leonidas
Ohp is my favorite lift. Taking someone's bench an pressing it overhead is just badass
Back is looking outrageously jacked in that thumbnail mate
And surprisingly, that upper back pump was purely from OHP! Thank you brother
Can confirm, ohp leaves my upper back sore for dayyysssss
I don’t even want big delts, I’m on the same thing as NH which is having arms that dwarf the delts… however I DO want to be able to press a man’s squat, so it is what it is
ive stalled on my seated OHP for 3 weeks now, cant squeeze out another rep, been stuck at 170 x 9. wont give up on it!
the military/OHP remains a king lift
both rule together as duo kings
im loving your videos always helps my training motivates me standing OHP is my number one shoulder and scapular builder I do all sorts of ways to tax my delts with it 1 minute rest lighter weight and as many sets to tire my shoulders out or go heavy rest 3 minutes and as many reps I can get with 3 sets sometimes I like doing high rep dumbbell shoulder presses then do the standing OHP with barbell heavy is good as well I like doing a pause going slow up and slow down so many ways to train shoulders with doing it you can do normal grip or wide grip for side delts
Imo as you get more advanced/stronger ohp isnt the best variation for strength/hypertrophy gains because of more stability demands but its still a great movement for keeping your shoulders healthy and maintaining shoulder mobility. 1 set is perfect as you say because you can do other movements for strength/hypertrophy building while 1 set of ohp will be enough to maintain shoulder mobility and health as well as still getting some secondary stimulus after other movements done prior.
These are great! I’ve stopped doing standing because of my limited thoracic mobility causing my lower back to excessively arch to get the bar over my head. Feels much safer to me and I feel like I can keep doing vertical pressing without putting myself at risk.
I am a big fan of standing OHP both conventional and behind the neck. I've gotten in on One hand clean and dumbbell press again as well recently. Shoulders feel great, and I'm closing in on a bodyweight OHP.
Your a beast bro
I figured out natural hypertrophy was right too. I think it’s smart to have a 50 : 50 ratio with bench and vertical presses. For example I do max effort bench and then on volume day I’ll do ohp for hypertrophy work, I feel less injured doing this. It’s a similar concept to mixing squats and deadlifts with the 3:1 ratio. I’m going to try alternating seated and standing ohp too
I think the OHP is comparable to barbell rows in the sense that your body naturally tries to cheat as the weight starts to approach your BW and so tracking progression is very difficult unless you work in the higher rep range (10-15). I prefer the seated AD press and t-bar rows instead.
I couldn’t imagine not doing an OHP for shoulders. Barbell, dumbbell, trap bar (like that neutral grip a lot!)…seated or standing…just pick a couple/few and get after it. Front and side delts will thank you. I see an awful lot of people doing cable lateral raises instead of OHP variations and feel they are missing the big picture.
What do you think about Mike Mentzer's training philosophy?
Great vid. I always felt amazing when I regularly performed the OHP.
Have been doing standing overhead press with the trap bar recently and it blew up my shoulders. Feels like a better behind the neck press thats wayyy easier on the shoulders and wrists. Plus it feels like it hits the side delt alot more than standard.
When I stopped doing OHP, my shoulder started hurting during bench after 3-4 months. When I start OHP included again, I had no problem pressing pain free. Wisdom comes at a price :D
I have experience of ditching all shoulder pressing ,not just OHP after listening to Mike Israetel talk about it in a video.
This led to me getting even MORE of a front delt pump during chest presses. My theory is because the shoulders weren't being developed separately so became the limiting factor, or were getting the workload from chest pressing that they should from shoulder pressing.
As soon as I went back to training shoulder presses, 2-3 sets per week, I went back to NOT feeling the shoulders when training chest and having great chest pumps and contraction.
I repeated the whole experiment a second time with similar results too. Might be interesting to someone.
Interesting. What about any differences in shoulder development? I honestly hate the OHP. Partially because of poor shoulder mobility. But mostly because I’m so weak with that lift! I’ve tried them seated with dumbbells and back support, but it just seems like standing with a barbell and progressively overloading would be best. I’m only a couple of weeks into implementing them again and still don’t care for them…but will continue to do them until I love them! lol
The standing press is irreplaceable. It’s an overall body strength builder. Not only a delt exercise especially if you incorporate heavy cleaning before strict pressing.
I used to he a form nerd, but a bit of an arch on OHP makes progression a lot easier
Great, I saw Dan Green say one time that he did a lot of seated dumbbell military press overhead press in college and his shoulders got huge and he never stop doing them
OHP (I train at home and don't have an adjustable bench, just a normal flat bench). I also think that the OHP targets the rear delts a bit more than the standing OHP too, ergo, giving the delts a completely rounded look.
Over the last two months I have run a daily high volume standing OHP (25 to 100 reps a workout) program. My shoulders exploded, I don't even recognize myself. My traps grew pretty well too (Head "going through" at the top of each reps for trap contraction and mobility work).
Now its time to make the transfer to the HSPU, which has been a goal of mine for a while
Can you go in detail?
I never tried doing seated barbell OHP. I always figured this variation (using a barbell) should be done only standing. I will do the dumbbell OHP seated, but only for 1-2 months per year.
Funny Mike Israetel just made a video few days ago saying basically the opposite: no need for OHP and if anything, do it sited.Good points both, food for thought.
Now I exclusively do behind the neck press. Very strong and mobile shoulders now, even better development than conventional OHP too and no loss in strength/bigger triceps.
Done two cycles with even working sets of AD & OHP, on a new cycle with just AD due to volume cut. Shoulders feeling something not quite right. This video explained it all 👍 planning to add back some OHP drop sets.
This is such a broscientist take on my part, but I just can't get as excited about the seated shoulder press variants whereas there is just something about the OHP that gets me hyped up to PR on it, and because I've psyched myself into it, I take it much more seriously. I don't run into stability issues because I train in high rep ranges. I do at times need to rotate it out, and when I do I've got a nice hammer strength plate loaded shoulder press that I'll use for a few weeks, then its back to OHP.
If you are a leaner/lankier lifter, you are limited by stability, but not like you would think. You loose position more easily breathing at the top, and you bleed energy easier.
Take one of your leaner/lankier lifters, and put them on a pin press where they can breathe at the bottom. They will get three to 5 reps more even though it's considered a disadvantage. They get to start from a strong position on each rep instead of the position they broke down to breathing under load.
So stability isn't really limiting force production, but lack of stability is draining them before they get to produce the force in the first place.
You gotta be careful training stability, you don't wanna go full Seedtard, but I am a fan of heavy waiters walks for attacking this weakness. You are stabilizing at the top, and breathing. Not stabilizing something chaotic and trying to press it at the same time. So it's a valid means of developing stability, and maintaining it while breathing. It's also great for building work capacity. It sucks very badly.
What I love in this channel content is: getting facts from personnal experience unlike others who made videos about researches
Yes both are good but we need something snowy and real like yours
Hope you added some scientific research and apply them, then you share your opinion and progress after 6 weeks at least