An outdated cycling bridge in Utrecht (NL)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- [881] The Utrecht railway bridge "Demkaspoorbrug" dates from 1966-1970. People can use it for cycling, but it does not meet current design standards. It is in urgent need of replacement. More information in the blog post: bicycledutch.w...
US: All of bridges are falling apart!
Netherlands: We have bridges where cycling is inconvenient
We actually also have some major (car) bridges in need of urgent overhaul.
It's the first time I have never seen some Dutch bike infrastructure that is worse in a Dutch city compared to here.
Come tro Groningen we still have two bridges that are broken because a ship hit them which the government refuse to repair... both accidents happened over a year ago and there aren't any plans to actually do the repairs in the coming year either. Like they actually voted against giving priority to repairing the bridges even though they are/were main cycling routes.
@@EJ386 Sad to hear. Nothing is perfect but I can assure you the state of the infrastructure in the US is really terrible.
@@dylanhoward7668 Ahahahah
It's nice that you also show the darker side of the otherwise exceptional Dutch cycling infrastructure.
It helps to show that it wasn't always as good as we built today, 50 years ago this was probably quite acceptable or possibly even groundbreaking
Living in Russia, I can say that the darker side of Dutch cycling infrastructure is more like light gray. The fact that it cares about bikes at all is amazing. In St. Petersburg, the main bridge (Dvortzoviy, the one on every postcard) only has a pedestrian lane, which is even narrower - it's almost always packed. And the cyclists (poor brave souls) just cycle with the speeding traffic
I mean, it's still a country with all the usual political issues. There are many, many poor bits of infrastructure all around, or bits that just don't hook up right, or require many street crossings, or pass very close by to many driveways (Russian roulette every day!) - or just are poorly maintained. The problem is largest outside of the cities or at their edges.
People sometimes forget that NL is still a primarily car-centric country like all the rest of them - just slightly less so. In 2019, cars represented about as much travel time as all the rest of the transportation modes put together, including bikes, walking, transit etc - and though I haven't seen 2020 numbers yet, I bet the pandemic *heavily* pushed people towards the car (shared space are scary after all!) And just like in other countries, most cars carry only their driver. When compared by distance, not duration, the modalities are even more skewed, naturally. (Sources: google "cbs mobiliteit reisduur 2019")
Still, being slightly less car-centric is still a fine aim, that's for sure.
Imagine you are that lady and you look up and see a man recording you stumble your way thru a turn.
Have you considered to take refuge in beautiful Netherlands?
She was illustrating a point well so I hope she'd understand, but yeah, I can't imagine my mum being happy with thousands of people watching her struggling like that.
@@luit361 Maybe not such a good plan, he's kinda stick-in-the-mud person as it turn out, you see.
2:07 NPCs don't have that ability. Very bad programming in that one or staged.
@@bleeb90 wel Catherina je moet begrijpen dat het zogenaamde 'koppel' (in het engels 'torque') van electro motoren instant is, geldt ook voor electrische auto's en de acceleratie voelt daarom heel direct en snel aan, daar moet je echt aan wennen; met 'gasgeven' ga je gauw te snel.
UK: We've stuck a cycle path on the side of this bridge. That's as much as we are going to do for cycling infrastructure.
Netherlands: This is not acceptable.
Exactly: most of the infrastructre in the south-south-west of the Netherlands is unacceptable.
US: What is cycling?
This could be neat idea...a short series on the bridges that need upgrading 🤔
That could turn out to be a very long, or rather endless series...
By US standards the bridge is exceptional for cyclists
This is better than almost anything in Missouri
It’s all relative, right?! The lower quality infrastructure in the Netherlands is often better than much of what is here in the US!
I'm a European but I still wish all Dutch Infrastructure was in the US instead.
US infrastructure has messed up one big chunk of land.
I was just thinking dang, I wish we had some cycle paths as good as that one! Of course, its not good enough for the Dutch.
I was told to be happy some sharrows got painted, so there’s that. 🤷🏻♂️
Wow, your main cycle routes actually have cycle-exclusive infrastructure? As a Stuttgarter, I'm quite envious!
Its all over the Netherlands actually and connected.
The Demkaspoorbrug is close to my office in Lage Weide. It’s not a nice bridge to cycle on.
Cycled on it one time (2 years ago), to remember my fear of heights.. so halfway walking, to be shocked by a passing train.. the detour of 4 km I took for granted when coming back home.. :)
It is a bit strange because the industrial area on northwest side is now almost fully redeveloped towards service-related business, so more commuting/traffic could be expected, and this is surely not a high capacity route.
I’ve used it a couple of times but I wouldn’t like to do it on a regular basis.
It's actually already used a lot by people who go to work (and back). I did it for years.
To be honest you get to an pretty empty looking industrial area with little elsez except to cycle past it and get to Terweide and The Wall. If you were at the start of this bridge and needed to get to Terweide, 'the way around' (over the yellow nescafe Bridge, vleutenseweg) is actually not that much longer for a route. That route is actually very wide, double wide separated bike paths and always very very busy.
I never seen this bridge as busy as in this video, normally it looks deserted.
@@jorismak there’s a large scale art project right under the other side of the bridge. All portals (slash poke stops etc). So that’s why *I* was there.
It's busy begin and end of werking hours 🙂
I only used it 2 times since i live in the north of utrecht , that was rough ride .
Ask €2 at the start and name it the Denka Experience... Thinking solutions here.
and put some coloured lights at the railing. Elon Musk, eat your hart out !
Thank you for actually making me laugh out loud 2:07 🤣
That's what a badly programmed NPC does.
It looks like an infomercial of the type “Do you also always struggle with opening bags of chips???”
Something that the USA and the Netherlands share: it's an absolute nightmare to get railways to make necessary improvements. A major bike path near me sat uncompleted for almost 2 years because the railway companies took that long to construct a simple level crossing.
They are getting rid of level crossings all over the Netherlands as they are deemed to be unsafe. But yeah.. The railways have so much other crap they need to do, that improving on something that is an inconvenience, but not important for their service, is at the bottom of their list of stuff they might even entertain of doing.
only 2 years? here in brainport eindhoven it has taken over 20 years and it still isnt even close to being done
That looks as narrow as most Amsterdam sidewalks.
oh I walked over that bridge when I forgot my ov card a while ago and had to walk from Utrecht centraal to Maarssen. It was scary af to walk on.
you did what now
@@vieffan use that bridge as a pedestrian
I was moreso referring to the fact that you opted to walk about 2 hours instead of buying a single use ticket
@@vieffan oh I forgot my entire hip bag, which contains my wallet and phone so I also couldnt call someone to drive me.
@@merren2306 oof
At 2:53 it is strange that the new bridge was constructed without a cycle path. How did the new bridge get planning permission in the Netherlands without addressing the needs of cyclists? 😱 Would it be possible to add a cycle path to the new bridge so that each bridge can at least be a one-way path? 🤔
A bridge is more than spanning a canal.
You need ramps with acceptable incline.
Both bridges are railway property, and the path looks like it was only for railway service originally.
Its because the railway company called prorail are cheap scapes. They don’t give a shit!
Barbaars inderdaad
Mijn antwoord op mensen die zeggen dat fietsen in Nederland makkelijk is omdat we geen bergen hebben... We hebben bruggen, heel veel bruggen!
My answer to people who claim cycling is easy in the Netherlands bacause we have no mountains (and use that as an excuse to the car dependency of their own country /city).. We might not have mountains, but we have many, many, many bridges over many, many, many canals&rivers. I challenge all these people to cross them, especially with the typical Dutch weather!
meanwhile in Australia this would be considered the pinnacle of bike infrastructure... wishing they'd take some notes from y'all :((
I live very close to this bridge and I actually love the charisma of the bridge. It's a reminder of the once so great werkspoorkwartier and it's kind of a ride into the past if you ask me.
The cost and complexity of installing bridges seems to be a common theme. Here in Stratford-upon-Avon in the UK there is talk every so often of getting another pedestrian/cycling bridge over the River Avon that runs through the middle of the town and/or upgrading one of the existing bridges. Nothing ever seems to come of it because its always too expensive, too controversial and there's other infrastructure vying for the same pot of cash.
I'm really surprised nobody has a made a standardised, modular bridge made from recycled materials that could be used for lots of such crossings, so that the redesign costs are minimised and there could be economies of scale in manufacture.
Modular bridges are probably not really feasible. Some bridges need to carry trucks, others trains, and some are just for pedestrians and bikes. Others have minimum clearage heights for ships or a need to be able to open up, whereas others may have to be extra long. For yet others the soil may be too soft for a generic solution, requiring additional foundations or support. Also, sometimes the landscape is higher on one side of the river than the other, there might commonly be very hard winds in a particular direction, or there might be other concerns like monumental buildings in the way or not having all the space for a generic solution.
Honestly, it isn't as if bridges just roll out of factories by the dozens; it is still a bunch of humans hand-manufactoring the huge parts, be it at a gigantic scale. The custom design might cost a little, but the real costs are the materials and the fact all the foces involved need to be simulated with all the data for that specific location.
Bridges are f*** expensive, the planning is just a tiny amont. Part why they are so expensive is that every position is slightly different from the next, so a one size fit all bridge would work as good as a one size fits all boot.
That woman (2.09) brings shame to all us dutch people on bikes. Don't blame the poor bridge!
This was on my commute for a few months. Crashed in the 180 corner twice while being reckless and having poor brakes. There's also a gap between the road surface and the barrier that always imagined getting my wheel stuck into. Not a good bridge indeed
As a kid it was really fun to cycle there and experience the train from so close. I work just across the bridge now, and I used to walk over it, and it was pretty sketchy, for sure when the train shook the bridge. On one side is the city, the other a dead end industrial street. That's probably why it doesn't have great cycling infrastructure. Most traffic from maarssen/vleuten would take the yellow bridge. But due to both sides continuing to grow it has become busy. Not only is the bridge part bad, the crossing for cyclists at the industry side is also terrible. Right after the tunnel you have a right of way as cyclists, but there is very little visibility. Most cyclists do realize this and make sure they are seen before passing, but that shouldn't be the way. A better idea would be to have the cycling bridge on the new bridge side, so you are already over the railway and don't have to use that tunnel
2:06
I feel so bad laughing
It looks silly, but when you're on an incline and you've got cargo on your bike (note the bag and basket on the front and rear of the bike) making a turn once you've come to a standstill can be quite cumbersome
I ride this bridge to my work three times a week. It connects the city directly to a large industrial area. I'm young and relatively fit and even I sigh every time I get to this bridge to cross it, it always takes too much effort for comfort. The south ramp also has stairs with a bicycle rail next to it and some people take that just to avoid the stupid sharp turn halfway up.
This reminds me of the Portland bridges with Hawthorne and Interstate as particular standouts, especially since WSDOT doesn't want to get on board with putting up the signs to make the cycleways on either side of I 5, since two way travel isn't possible without both parties dismounting and sliding past each other against the gaurdrails.
Reminds me of biking on the Manhattan bridge. Thank god trains in America don't go that fast.
The speed limit for trains on the bridge in Utrecht is 140 km/h (87 mph). Acela Express trains in the northeastern US reach 160 mph (257 km/h). And Northeast Regional trains reach 125 mph (201 km/h)
@@OntarioTrafficMan But the Manhattan bridge only carries subway trains.
@@marco23p Okay but his claim was that "Trains in America don't go that fast".
@@OntarioTrafficMan While this is true, the corridors used by those high speed trains are a joke. They only reach 260km/h in one stretch of the journey, the rest of the time slowed down by other traffic. In Europe, 150km/h isn't even special, every train reaches it on a straight line. Here (Canada), freight trains go UP TO 80 🤣
@@finnk1289 As of 2021 the Acela reaches 160 mph (257 km/h) in 4 segments. Previously it topped out at 150 mph (241 km/h) in 2 segments. Most of the line west of New York permits at least 135 mph (217 km/h). East of New York speeds are generally less than 125 mph apart from the two 160 mph zones (in Rhode Island and Massachusetts).
150 km/h is not special in Canada either. Most of the mainlines in southern Ontario and Quebec permit at least that much. The speed limits along the Corridor are:
100 mph (161 km/h) Windsor-Chatham
80 mph (129 km/h) Chatham-London
80 mph (129 km/h) London-Dundas
95 mph (153 km/h) Dundas-Toronto
95 mph (153 km/h) Toronto-Montreal
100 mph (161 km/h) Montréal-Québec
100 mph (161 km/h) Brockville-Ottawa
100 mph (161 km/h) Ottawa-Coteau
Most mainlines in southern Ontario and Quebec permit freight trains up to 60 mph (97 km/h).
In other words, this is like, nay better than where I live: Zeeuws-Vlaanderen.
Weird seeing a video here quite like the average activist video from another country. I've been on so many bridges where it's like, they just measured the width of two bmx handlebars and said, guess that's enough space for two-way cycling plus pedestrians then.
Goodness me, I would not have thought that there would be built any bridge without bicycle provisions in Netherlands by 2002 (maybe even laid in law!) !! @Mark : Do you know what the considerations were to build the new bridge without bike path ? You'd say that to include a path on the new bridge from scratch in one go is a lot cheaper and less complex than doing the whole design, planning and constructing process over again to fit one at the old bridge !
(or was it a similar process like when decided that sprinters wouldn't need toilets and trains need not a 1mtr snow proof roof ! 😵🥴)
It's quite narrow, yes. But the paths are not that steep (at least compared to my experience in Würzburg, where you can not avoid an uphill battle if you need to get from the University to the city center and back again. Also, you are surrounded by cars most of the time.)
(It is impossible to change the topography, obviously. But bike paths over here could need a bit more protection, although they have improved in the last few years)
Interesting 🧐 I like how you envisioned out loud! Love 💗 it!
This bottleneck's gotta go. What would be nice if they could build a new railway bridge with new cycling infrastructure and move this one either up or downstream for use as another cycling/pedestrian bridge.
Hopefully that bridge will be replaced soon.
This is like listening to a billionaire complain about how the fridge in his private jet only holds 4 bottles of champagne, when he generally drinks 5 bottles on a trans-Atlantic flight.
This is very, very similar to the Barra bridge cycle lane in Aveiro, Portugal, the difference is that it's a highway next to it and not a rail line.
Hang on: if the current bridge wouldn't hold a widened cycle path, and a new bridge would have to be added alongside… why doesn't the city just built that new bridge next to (or near) the railway one. Not part of the railway bridge, no need for it to be owned by NS.
NS doesn’t own that. ProRail does
Funding, is the problem.
It looks like there's space on either side of the bridge to build a parallel pedestrian bridge with perhaps
one option would be making it one why on ether side of the bridge like you would a road. thats if its possible think of a road with the trains going in the middle if that makes sense
The problems of developed countries. :v
Bro even the Netherlands has ugly ass graffiti?
Of course. Every country has people who can't restrain themselves from doing embarassing things.
Yes, even in The Netherlands.
Every were in the werld - norhtkorea
I understand that the existing bridge structure may not have been able to support a widened bike path. But if they were building a brand new rail crossing right next to it, why didn't they just design that bridge to support an expanded bike route?
That bridge is the private property of the Dutch Railways. The government has no powers to force them to include a bicycle crossing in their bridge designs. This is an extra feature that costs money with no profits in return.
The previous bridge in my city had a glorified sidewalk with no railing between it and the railway track...
New bridge: huge complicated intersection, 2-way bike paths, no railway at all. The railway has been derilict for years. If they did finally use it, it doesn't cross into downtown anymore!! Stupid
Damn, that bridge really is narrow. I was thinking of the Hohernzollernbrücke in Cologne when I visitedthat place for a school trip, but comparing the images that bridge is really wide. To be honest though, the Netherlands has more of such bridges. Even on main routes like for example Almere's Spoorbaanpad in the Almere Buiten area.
This video have me Sydney Harbour bridge flashbacks
This bridge is horrible indeed. I cycle on it once in a while, I may be agile enough to make the 180 degree bend but I see many, many people struggle. The fun really starts when a bakfiets comes from one side, and a scooter from the other side. That bakfiets can by the way never go round the 180 degree bend in one go...
My faforite videos to watch while eating pizza, greatings from the Netherlands.
Schandalig inderdaad.
I often cycle to work using this bridge and it’s terrible. The trains pass by so closely you can feel the wind pulling on you when they pass by and I have not managed to pass this bridge once without some scooter trying to rush past me, pushing you to the side. It’s terrifying 🙃
It seems like the railway company isn't very interested in cyclist.
Nope ProRail want to save every penny they can. Their assholes!
After seeing the thumbnail, I thought thats not so bad. Then I saw how much of the bridge is actually given for cyclists
Arme meid haalt de bocht niet , misschien niet eerlijk omdat online te zetten. Laten we mensen soms ook tegen zichzelf in bescherming nemen ook als dat misschien volgens de wet niet hoeft
Het is duidelijk dat de brug haar in de problemen brengt. En dankzij de camera hoek, haar zonnebril en het feit dat ze niet in de camera kijkt zullen heel erg weinig mensen haar hiervan kunnen gaan herkennen. Ik denk dat ze er heel blij mee zal zijn als deze kleine scene er mede de oorzaak van zou kunnen zijn dat de brug verbeterd gaat worden.
This is such such a scary place to bike, i always got scared by the trains passing by unexpectetly
Why exactly was an expansion impossible?
@@var67 makes total sense. Sometimes older structures are difficult to retrofit. We have a cycle path in our town that crosses a main railway and the bridge couldn’t handle the extra weight either. Union Pacific Railroad here in the US is very specific with their standards and permitting and is going to have us build a separate bridge to meet their standards. I imagine it is similar in Utrecht with the canal.
The example that not all is perfect in the Netherlands for bicycling xD
Proud to say I am one of the last 100 before you hit 50k
At least you have! Other bridges!
Can you see the railway brag, and can you see indina railway brag, lot of deference between india and Nederland... Such a wonderful video..
Regards
Richard james...
Zeurpiet
Mild inconveniences at worst.
Also how are people in a country with so much cycling so bad at cycling that they can't make a simple hairpin in one swoop?
Wow, that's considered steep? -Don't you have gears?
@Robert Of course, if you have enough space for a longer ramp - *please* do! And all turns should easy to take in just *one* turn - even with cargo bikes, velomobiles and such.
I was just a little amazed what the dutch consider steep.
And I do not say that this way is good by any means. After watching th-cam.com/video/eLIzGY8FgNg/w-d-xo.html I must say that this way sucks by any standards.
America: Almost run over by an idiot, honked at, flipped off
Netherlands: You can be startled