Normal Person reporting in. I spend about 25% of my time in PvP, and I am somewhere right in the middle of the skill bell curve. Which means I am often above average in 6v6 matches, but usually below, or well below average in a trials match. The biggest things that I noticed with this sandbox update is that it made all the good players even better. I have been punching over my skill level for awhile with OK positioning, team shooting, weapon selections with good body shot damage, and a general goal to put in damage and not die. With the update I now put in less damage with miss/bodyshots, and I am constantly being surprised at the speed of my deaths. Which I don't totally get, because optimal TTk didn't change, so why do I feel like I am getting killed faster in trials? In the past, two shots with a 120 and back in to cover would be fine most every time. Now, if I try to peak for a second shot before regening health, or just stay out of cover for two shots, I am getting killed by faster TTk weapons VERY frequently! Throw in the new card for trials that gets me an adept for staying in the challenger pool and just getting 6 pairs of wins, and I ended up spends a LOT of time getting absolutely trashed in trials, and not having much fun. I don't think many mid skill players are going to stay around any longer than they need to pick up a good cataphract, and get back to PvE. That said, I hopped in to comp to work towards some artiface armor, and with SMBB in effect, it all felt pretty good!
Most well constructed comment I’ve read so far, thanks for the thought and effort. I think this dilemma is interesting and I could not agree with you more when you said the update has made good players better. I think you’re probably a little better than you think you are, and that’s a factor too. The game can feel very uncomfortable and punishing when you’re rising in skill level. But if you’re having a good time in comp it means matchmaking is working for people in the middle to upper middle of the bell curve and that gives me more hope.
@@danmancino22 Ya, thats true, but it leads back to one of my other major theories on rewards in destiny. Many people have cried for better rewards, particularly in trials, so more people will play. I think this is a bad idea. When you put good rewards into an activity that is not enjoyable, it does not fix the activity, it only makes more people play it, and subsequently have a bad experience for longer, until they end up quitting, or getting on reddit to complain. But a GOOD activity, with rewards that are just barely useful will be much better. This is the perfect example. Am I in there playing comp for 9+ matches because I need to get the artifice armor? Not at all. HOWEVER, if I am in there, and its enjoyable because the match making is working well, and the sandbox is working well, then artifice armor drops are a really nice bonus, and every once in a while I might even get one I don't delete. Its not much, but its enough that I feel like more time played actually has a secondary benefit. If I just played in the quickplay playlist, I would be deleting 100% of the drops, with no chance for anything I might actually keep. So comp right now for me sits in that nice little niche were it actually enjoyable and has a little bonus reward. Unfortunately the draw of adept loot, and the fact that I am just good enough that its not IMPOSSIBLE to get has pulled me in to trials for another weekend that has gone miserably, and I wish that I had not played.
Agree I've spent 30 hours this weekend on the new trials card just to get 1 done ,pvp in this game sucks more then any other pvp out there ,it also has to do with the fact trials needs to b sbmm and Bungie really needs lobby balance. To many time I faught a flawless tem with a team of pve player so many 5 to 0 games it's was soul crushing
Destiny pvp has sucked for like 3 years ,where is the gun fights, guardians are airplane,s on feet ,it's more akin to dog fights then gun fights .just soul crushing pvp man .I think they should ban exotics armour included,or give a list of weapons u can use each season
ive always fit into a more defensive long rang playstyle, and have seen myself improve drastically recently, whether because ive been more aware of my positioning or maybe the changes have helped, but something has helped
IMO you’ve been playing the real game the whole time, it should be mostly about working angles. With brief moments of faster paced play when the specials come out or someone closes the gap. 24/7 aping just isn’t fun or what the game is at its core.
Less special ammo and health changes makes playing pvp a little more boring imo, my K/D has even increased with the change by like 10-15%, but I honestly would prefer something sitting in the middle of what we had and what we have now. Maybe just a touch quicker special gain, tied to using primaries more so than objs
I think we’re pretty close to the right pacing, though you got me thinking. What if you got a little more special transmat for a headshot kill? That might be just enough to be meaningful.
I absolutely hate joining a game in progress with this update. It often means you have no specials and no supers going up against a team that has already farmed ammo and super. This is happening so often and it sucks.
Interesting. I luckily didn’t get many joins in progress, apart from one horrible 3v3 clash game. The other team was 5 or 6 rounds deep with fusions and shotguns, let’s just say I left just like the people before me lol
Maps are too tunnel based compared to D1, sniper flinch and lack of ammo makes them useless, giving all classes freeroam supers was bad, hunter GG still has not been fixed with the lowest duration, shotgun fest, too many aoe/homing weapons. And more
You take on hand holding is completely wrong, it is not easy to shut down. All my games are now are me running around with my team and using a auto ir a scout depending the map. Double primary is better than using a special. Bungie keeps trying to make destiny something it was never supposed to be - a balanced competitive shooter. Adleast before the update the game was fun. Dont even get me started on how boring 3v3 and trials is. And im not a titan player nor do i ever use a shot gun or fusion. Im actually performing better in this new meta but ive never been so bored.
even with the changes 90% of my clan all voted the same thing "i will play final shape and then im done" and this includes my right now it still feels like bungie is the lil kid who F-up big time and all there giveing us is a im sowy too meany times has the ball been drop sorry to say but after final shape i dont see destiny 2 liveing long hell i dont see them haveing a playerbase 3 months after final shape 😟
The problem I have is all anyone does now is just sit with each other, holding each other‘s hands with pulse rifles and scout rifles and it is just miserable. I like special ammo. It was a lot of fun and I understand its problem in the sandbox not having it all the time is honestly not what I have a problem with. It’s the changes they made to the primaries were so aggressively awful. I’m not trying to come off as rude but saying 120 still slap is just in an inaccurate statement. Before they had the lowest time to kill out of the archetypes, but they were forgiving, two head shots, one body shot and the range also helped out a lot making them able to compete with other weapons. But now you have to land all three Headshots without precision instrument so you have to be perfect to get the lowest time to kill in the game that is inherently stupid. I also think checkmate in six vs six is a bad idea. There should be a place where people are allowed to practice special ammo. How are people supposed to practice how to use it effectively if they almost never get it. And a place where people who don’t really like the checkmate changes are still allowed to have fun and crucible. Bungee desperately needs to change some things. I am sick of seeing dead man’s tail and no time to explain in every single game and I’m sick of having to use them just feel like I can compete. When my friend and I went flawless last weekend, it was one of those boring trials weekends I’ve ever had all I did was sit in the back with no time to explain because that’s all I was allowed to do or I was mowed down by the dead man’s tails or prosecutor. They desperately need to fix this or crucible is gonna die because it’s just turning into pulses and scouts and prosecutor. I would honestly rather deal with the special spam then just sit there almost AFK with a pulse or a scout.
Bubbles, Wells, Titan Barricade and Threadlings are super obnoxious right now. And if you want the TTK to stay this way then get used to hand holding all day in the Crucible. Your counters to hand holding aren't gonna be figured out by the average Crucible player that doesn't no life PvP. They need to reduce ability cool downs further and put the TTK back to the way it was. The TTK was perfect. Abilities and special ammo were always the problem.
I think super balancing is a huge factor. But right now if you have a moderate amount of game sense you can break a group of team shooters. The problem atm is that it’s a new sandbox and people who no life are trying to play it safe and protect K/D with a few weeks I think we’ll see the meta evolve and the pace of the game increase.
Been playing the game off and on since vanilla Destiny. Got back into it before Lightfall, my buddies and i were disappointed with the constant cheating and facing mnk (we are all console) players when playing trials. We just came back to see how the update is and it’s going in the right direction. I like the new changes and team play is way more important now. Wish they would leave freelance trials tho for when my buddies aren’t online
i just hate that bungie took away special because i am getting worse and worse at the game because i dont get to use special that much and i am not aping or anything i am just using special as my secondary with is the rerason bungie gave us primary and secondary and why not add modes where you dont have the checmate modifier and also bungie nerfed bows with is like why when wish ender was the only problem and wish ender still hits as hard
I couldn’t be happier to shut down players who before the update didn’t know what a primary is. In rumble I was always seeing players with 20k plus PvP kills on a fusion & 100 kills on their primary
faced at least 26 of them this weekend alone in trials, 1 (rapid) bursted pulsed while killfeed writing DMT fckn lol, and a few Necrochasm abusers with the rpm buff activated with 0 kills. Fckd up game is what Pc Destiny pvp has become, its almost 50%-50% the cheatin ratio and if u include the closet wallers/aimbotters we might be a 70%-30%...
I would argue that there only is one "real" long range map... but yea there is that. Ammo economy is fine. But i dont like the other changes with HP and body/crit dmg. It just happens way tooo often that enemys get away with just 1 hp left. Trials still is a pile of ..... Matching the same teams that stomped you 3-4 times in a row. Matching top 0.1% pvp streamer as a bad player and cheater that arent killable, have rapid fire or just onehit melee you over the whole map. Played around 60 games last we and nearly half of them where unwinnable because of one of both
Matchmaking is bad for sure, and I got net limited and lost some games with no way of playing. Not a fun feeling. I think that 1hp escape is frustrating but essential, there needs to be an importance on hitting your shots. This also allows for a reward to learn good fast movement. If you can GTFO of a bad gunfight with 1hp based on your movement, you deserve to survive.
I’m an extremely below average PVP player ever since I moved to MnK and this update has just cemented it even more, the special changes feel incredible, but outside of that the experience has been overwhelmingly negative for me. The games I play are just consistent 4-6 stack steamrolls where I go entire hours without a win as a solo, the amount of teamshotting that has been coming out over this past week has just made the experience dreadful for me. I’m aware that I’m not a crucible player so my opinion doesn’t really matter but the health changes just make all of the weapons I enjoyed using feel awful and now I just stick to meme guns like Khvostov and Husk Of The Pit because then when I get shit on it doesn’t feel as bad. The map rotation is just boring, I’ve had times where I get Citadel 4-5 times in a row immediately followed up by two back to back games of midtown. And the matchmaking has just been relentless, yet again I’m not a good player and I completely understand that, but the majority of the time it feels like I’m getting 4-5 teammates that are even worse than me (I don’t know how that’s physically possible) and the entire enemy team feels like they play nothing but trials and go flawless 20 times a weekend. The summoner and prosecutor are just consistently stomping me at any range no matter what I’m using, and I’m not good enough to even win a game of trials so I’ll never get a good summoner, and I have god awful RNG so I’ll never get a good prosecutor so I just feel helpless Usually I can just tough out the meta for a few weeks and feel myself improve a little but this time I’ve put almost 10 resets into crucible rank and I still just feel like a New Light. Although I’m glad people are enjoying this new update, it just seems like it’s time for me to give up on PvP as a whole
First video of yours I have seen from TH-cam's recommended feed. What a polarising 1st video, lol. I am a filthy PvP casual. I jump in rarely when I fancy a bit of self-flagellation! I tend to run snipers w' either a pulse or scout. Or, if I am feeling myself, I'll jump on my Hunter with my Ace of Spades. I can honestly say PvP feels the same to me, irrespective of the changes made to special ammo & HP. I still either roll or get rolled. I still loathe shotgun + melee spammers. I still giggle at the rare sword user when they get heavy ammo and run at me like bloody Leeroy Jenkins. I still scream "f*** yeah" when I hit a headshot on my snipe (my D2 aim is atrocious - I'm a CS guy). I play Destiny as a PvX game. Predominantly PvE but enough PvP to be interested somewhat. I feel it is intended that way and I get the most enjoyment out of it.
As a former casual PvP player, I stay away from it all now. It used to be fun but not anymore. I run PC and as soon as I see someone, before I can fire a shot...."BOOM" it's lights out. Got a really good system, running Hi-Speed internet with average 950Mbps download & 40Mbps upload. Tried using mouse/keyboard and console controller with the same result. In the past I could average top three in matches in Iron Banner, 6v6. Did well in competition and trails on a good day, then something changed. I don't think I am the only one experiencing this and it just caused many of us not to play PvP. Is it cheating? Are players using "devices" to gain advantage? Is match making way off kilt? Have my skills just deterioated? Not sure, but it has made it intolerable to play. I still enjoy watching streamers and videos of folks playing PvP but just not enthusiastic to attempt PvP anymore.
i just wanted 2 diffrent game modes.. but no... we cant have that, we have to have this change across the board... i hate it.. im not bad at this game mode, in fact I'm very good at it, but i still like having access to special weps after i die or after a kill. and i just want there to be 2 different game modes. I hate being limited and i hate that this change is in every mode now, it wasnt in gurdian games play list for a week, but bungie changed that pretty quickly.
I don't mind not seeing the inevitable Bubble to capture the last round in Trials and supers not activating overall. As a mid player, I definitely feel the special drop snowball effect on my head. Great playing and video, thanks.
Idk, I think they need to half the amount of special or do some of additional special nerf. I still get killed by special 60% of the time and only dying to primary like 20% of the time. I think ability cooldowns are fine where they are at, but they might need to rework the exotics that let you stack two of an ability to something more creative. Like maybe a double cooldown rate or something that improves regen overall. It’s not bad when you come across one person running it, but then you have a whole team of double stasis grenade warlocks and it’s kind of just stupid how many they can throw out.
Yeah that double capacity cold snap is totally out of hand, nothing to counter it than running it yourself. Almost as bad as when you would get 3x behemoths with icefall back in the day just walling you off and shiver striking your happy ass off the map.
I am playing this weekend on the new card to get the adept summoner. I am average or maybe mid player with some other good people on my team. What I noticed thus weekend, the first pool you get in to play, I get matched up with people already went flawless for the weekend, people way above my skill gap, and get the crap stomped out of me. It doesn't seem to improve until I grind out the first win. Then I start getting better matches. It does not make it fun to be matched up against people with 1 million crucible kills for the entire other team and people on my team have 1k combined. Second, they higher skill people are rewarded with the change with the reduction of body shot damage and the higher health pool. Many times that extra health has cost me kills because someone else on thier team buddy shot me. It is hard to improve as a player when you get matched with people far above your skill, get wiped out and you, as a mid player get nerfed while the higher skill people get buffed. I am trying to get better, play through trials each week, but this weekend has felt the worst in years. They really need to fix this skill gap matching issue and lobby balance. I don't want hand outs, but I also don't want to get matched with people with hundreds of flawless when I have none, you don't get better that way because you have no time to learn what you did wrong or how to improve.
Very true. My same experience. Totally one-sided games most of the time. A single experienced player can now wipe an entire team, while still playing somewhat aggressively. Soul-crushing.
Yeah match making is still horrible, especially for people who are getting better and transitioning through different levels of play. Some games feel fair and challenging, others are totally unwinable and no fun at all. Try lfg-ing for people around your elo. I know it can be a toxic cesspool of chodes saying 3.0+ K/D or go home, but I’ve found lots of chill dudes just looking to get the adept weapon and farm out their 7 wins card. Also easier time matchmaking in 3’s.
Yeah match making is still horrible, especially for people who are getting better and transitioning through different levels of play. Some games feel fair and challenging, others are totally unwinable and no fun at all. Try lfg-ing for people around your elo. I know it can be a toxic cesspool of chodes saying 3.0+ K/D or go home, but I’ve found lots of chill dudes just looking to get the adept weapon and farm out their 7 wins card. Also easier time matchmaking in 3’s.
Bro I'm a pve player but for the past 2 weeks I've been grinding pvp , and as the 1834 blueberry that I am the state of pvp is awful, if you don't get steam rolled at the start you have 2 deal with the opposition holding hands team shoting you or your bullets not registered properly and I'm hard wired to my router 2 meters away, the game feels so unbalanced, everytime I look at the leader board at the end of a match all I see is warlock 35 kills , warlocks 40kills , warlock 50kills , the mini map is so retarded and needs removing , people camp with a pulse rifle at the edge of the map already looking down sights ready to beam you as soon as you come round the corner or even peek , then you get spawn trapped and spammed by supers running back into the fight from your spawn or someone spawns close to you and you get insta melted , but one of the worst things in pvp is the pistols , you don't win against a pistol period , the bullet tracking is ridiculous and unless the guy is terrible your getting 2 tapped or even 1 tapped , they are over powered as he'll, I play trials , supremacy, control and its the same in all 3 game types, and with the content drought I'm really struggling to find a reasonable point to play this game. Don't get me wrong I can hold my own its not all salt and stress , I've been at the top of the winning side but all I'm trying to say is pvp is not fun whatsoever and that why it's dead , dont even let me get started on the evaluating guardians looking for a match for 5 minutes just to get shit on in the first 5 minutes chasing the game just to be destroyed of spawn 7 times in a row, pvp needs so much work it's pretty much a lost cause because bungie hasn't got the resources or time to make it truly better in the current climate of layoffs and Sony disapproval , then there's the cronus max users and the hackers you have to deal with , its truly is a shit storm on a mine field to have some sort of resemblance of fun and is not worth anyone's time.
Thank you. It is garbage. That's why the community hailed Bungie when they reverted it back to spawning with special. I'm now unable to push completely bcuz I have to save ammo for objective plays or Supers smh...
Bruh this comment spills I need help. Regardless what you do someone will be upset. Bring specials back then what? Spam it and die? Now you have to use your primary and be smart. Do things to throw the enemy team off. If somehow you're on a bad team, well try and see how you can utilize a bad situation to improve. Even if it's a small improvement m
Console player here, the handholding feels way more frequent here than when I play PC lobbies with a friend, some people just don’t challenge anymore and opt to backpedal engagements, which punishes me cause I like to play fast and aggressive, this becomes more frustrating the more ppl playing this way, I know I will have to change weapon playstyles but I definetly feel how less special affects easy usage strats over good game sense. I like to use snipers both long range and aggressive quick scope plays, and this changes plus the nerf to snapshot WAY back just took snipers really down for me personally. Would like to know ur thought on the last part.
Yeah bungie doesn’t want you to use snipers like that, especially not with generous aim assist lol. I think we all learned how not fun that is from MW2 quickscoping. Snipers are in a good spot, you should be afraid of wasting the ammo. They shouldn’t be a push weapon like a shotgun.
the dawn blade Worlock that lasts for years and travels faster than all supers is flying last for 30 seconds hard to kill and One hits anyone hunter super get hit by shotgun dies instantly
the excessive ammount of aim assist esp using controller on pc is going to turn this "primary meta" into a shit show. drang and thumbsticks could run the world.
There needs to be some serious enforcement on xim chronus and the like, and honestly just a reduction in aim assist across the board for the rollers. They have good deadzone settings now, bout time they stop making the game aim for them.
Great video man. This was my first time seeing one of your videos but you presented it well with many great points. Also, you’re cracked at PVP gonna try to watch you play more and learn what I can. You got yourself a subscriber. Keep up the great work:)
Thanks dude, it’ll take some time for me to increase the pace of uploads but I am committed. I want to create videos more focused on dissecting PVP gameplay and talk more strategy and approach. I dislike the idea of advanced PvP videos being all about stats and nerdy details and want to talk more about application of tools (weapons perks abilities) and how to integrate them for maximum effectives depending on gameplay style. Thanks for watching, it means the world!
Oh look, a meta rage baby whining about special in a game about SPACE MAGIC. [sigh] Look guy, if you want "pRiMaRy GuNfIgHtS", there's plenty of other games for you... Halo, Valorant, Call of Dooty, Battlefield.... people ruining what makes Destiny Destiny by trying to make it like every other shooter out there really pisses me off. These shit changes need to be reverted. Can I adapt? Sure. Am I having far less fun? Definitely. Skill-based matchmaking in my god damned PARTY MODES, no Elimination, Trials with a shitty flag that can be bubbled on 3/5 rounds, the list of bad changes goes on and on. OH, and the fact the ONLY god damned super that can be used in Trials IS Bubble... because everything else has such a gargantuan cooldown at Intellect Tier-10 is crazy. I barely get my Well half the time, but the second I play Titan? Bubble come online within 2 - 3 rounds... at least one Barricade every round, sometimes two depending on build. Game needs to go back to 30th Anniversary sandbox. It was the most balanced. Yes, Thundercrash was a pain in the ass, but you could easily deal with that with a well-placed Vorpal shot. Most couldn't though. Most also didn't know how to get out of the damn way of the impact blasts.
I totally don't agree with this. We had this bullsh** all primary weapons stuff in D2 vanilla. How did that go? It was a team shoot fest. So, it's nonsense to me to hear, "Dude, special weapons takes no skill. It's not fair, man.....(hits on bong).....We super star mega skill players can't get the advantage we deserve, when eveyone can get easy kills......". Yeah, like team shooting took any skill at all. Special weapons and space magic are what made this PvP unique. The more you have of both, the better the game is.
First-time trials player here. I jumped into trials this weekend to unlock the armor. I can confirm, that it is a bad experience (and not rewarding). Good players can crush it, while average players are punished for not hitting all crits. Smg to the body seemed to do barely anything, although maybe cheating was involved? The results are extremely one-sided. Also, most people seemed to run double primary in trials, me included, because special ammo is so rare you might just forget about it. I noticed auto rifles/ pulse and sidearms being favourites and the obligatory shotgun here and there.
I don't know what they can do to fix it...but it sucks..and I'm tired of git gud...I have a life..a family...I love this game but play other games as well...so when I have to go into pvp for a certain weapon...it just sucks...I don't have time to memorize every map...or use only one weapon...but as soon as I get away from my team...I get smoked before I can even aim down sights..I just wish it was more fair....if they put a bunch of ppl who only get 10 kills a game...together...then maybe playing them for awhile..I could or we all could get better...then move up the ladder
Overall, I like the changes. I have a coordination handicap that keeps me from ever being good. I pretty much exclusively play 6v6 pvp anymore (the rest of the game is pretty stale). I was running double primaries during the special meta to keep from feeding enemies special ammo. I have noticed many more players at or below my skill level lately which used to be pretty rare. I am winning gunfights instead of just getting shotgunned or sniped. It finally feels like my map knowledge is paying off. I certainly have seen a large increase in people traveling in packs and teamshotting (especially with autos). Side note: I am impressed by the quality of your analysis. It is nice to see a new content creator come out of the gate with good analysis and rational takes. Someday I will be proud to say I was one of your first 300 subs.
I for one celebrate seeing less shotguns. I always liked pvp but I never honestly bothered with learning it when every match I joined I would always get banged by slide shotguns 90% of the time. Now it feels way better for me and I might actually give it a try and learn
The reason they made this much more better is because I wanted bungo to create a new system that can actually crush players pvp mechanic comfort People always want overpowered things because it is what they will drench there saliva on for basically (meta) Id rather have more primary fights because you’ll technically have more random plays basically Id rather have people use more primary over special usages because of shotguns The damage changes are good though I’d say because it’s gonna try to persuade players to use something different too
I love the new update if you are complaining about how you don't like it cuz you can't just spam special weapons anymore then that's the problem. Tho I will say some specials should have different counters as snipers take actual skill to use compared to fusions and shotguns so I will say they should change the counter dependent on the special weapon and say if you change to a shotgun to sniper to get ammo faster it would reset the timer tho i also see the problem with more primaries as many people now adays just sit in the back of the map with pulse/scouts so i guess there really is no biggg fix for PvP
I forgot to mention, I died to the same golden gun multiple times on Dead Cliffs just like the old days. I don't think anything can fix that map though.
For sure, a bigger problem for controller vs M+K. There’s nothing more frustrating than homies aim assist negating his flinch when my aim gets trashed by my flinch.
I disagree about it being an auto rifle meta. Almost every archetype of almost every weapon type is seeing more use now, scout rifles in general, non-high-impact pulses finally, auto rifles in general outside of Ammit, sidearms too. HCs are still very strong and dominant too, 140's are by no means bad. HC flinch was reduced for a reason, it shouldn't be reverted given how dominant HC's have been for the games literal entire lifespan. Something needed to change, they tried range in the past and it didn't work, they tried less stable HCs and it didn't work, so the flinch needs to go. Everything else about HCs is still top tier by playing the exact same as before. The diversity and splitting off from HC dominance is a necessity and godsend at this point. Hand Cannons had their time to be the gods of destiny and are still at the top of the usage charts, they're fine as they are, everything else deserves a chance to be used for once.
@@NuclearRizzicist they’re trying to make the skill ceiling mean something mark my words they’ll need autos within a month or two, I like where hand cannons are at personally I just think they need to be able to flinch auto rifle spammers And they’re not top of the charts auto rifle took the top spots this week 1/2/4 positions overall most use weapon by almost a million kills Autos need fine tuning down and handcannons need mild flinch upgrades
@@johnh5909 auto rifles becoming usable wont warrant a nerf. What makes someone a spammer? Using the gun that's in the game? Like how HCs were spammed for nearly a decade straight? God forbid auto rifles see a bit of popularity though lmao. Auto rifles are seeing a rise in usage not only because of HC changes, but because of the SMG Target Lock nerf too, this has also caused sidearms to rise in power. Its not as simple or straightforward as it just being "autos OP HCs need buff", there's alot more at play here to take into consideration. You nerf autos, we go right back to the SMG dominance you people have complained about for the last 2 years. Buff hand cannons back up, autos cant compete in their intended range anymore, just like before. Do some research and look at everything collectively, its not as simple as nerfing and buffing one and another thing. Also, if flinch really is your issue, then A) invest into more unflinching mods on your chest, or more stability in your HC. These are the kinds of choices Bungie intended for us to weigh and make. Alternatively, B) invest in High Caliber Rounds. Ace of Spades is currently being hyped for remaining a strong contender in the new sandbox, try that out to do more flinch. High Caliber Rounds now serves a purpose, increasing HC flinch would make it nigh useless again. In short, HCs dont need a buff, and Auto Rifles don't need nerfed. You need to change how you build and look at things, adapt to the game instead of asking for it to cater to your wants and needs. Again, Hand Cannons had nearly a decade of dominance, you will live if theyre not the tippy top at all times this time around.
I was trying to play passage of persistence this weekend and I kept getting put against sweats that I had no chance of beating whatso ever. I couldn't get that second win on my card to get my card started so I could continue forward
Getting special ammo progress for dying is like call of duty where you got death streaks. Get something for being bad. Still a good change. I still feel like trials should be locked loadouts
Yes sir, locked load outs should be mandatory in trials and comp. We were pumped about the exotic armor removing your super change a while ago. But yes, great comment .
The pvp was at its peak with forsaken and about a year after. Then they went F2P and stopped caring about pvp. They let it get as unbalanced as possible. They let special become ridiculous to the point you never needed a primary. They made abilities so cheap as well. It was chaos. There was 0 skill and the skill gap was null. The pvp population plummeted hard. A lot of us core players left. This is the only fps in the world where you were able to have 0 skill and manage to win. We finally have a pvp team again and this update helped a lot. The main changes left still are nerfing 450 rpm ars, bubble/well, OS barricade and rift, and igneous range by a bit. This is the only game where I see so many noobs and casuals feeling entitled to being good without much effort. They are finally trying to make the game better and I'm here for it. Side note: REMOVE ARTIFACT MODS FROM PVP LOL. And also, the game should just reduce aim assist by like 10-20 percent.
The fact that every once in a while you can get a goofy ass artifact mod like this free radiant one we have, or classy restoration is absurd to me. There’s no way you can have interesting perks in there if they mess with PvP. And as far as AA you and me both. I’m tired of goofy controller players crunching on the sticks.
As a solo PvP purist on the higher end of the skill curve, this update has just been a net-positive for me. My ability to dictate a game with nothing but my primary skill which has gone unused for years has gone up drastically. Gunfights instead of ending with an army of threadlings and two lightning nades now end with me learning from my mistakes, like using cover more often and disengaging properly. Overall it has shifted PvP from ability and special crutching/spamming to actual IQ, positioning, peak shooting, and managing your special usage which is a mini-game in itself. Although you still get those mathematically impossible matches with skewed teammates, it feels less oppressive. And in 6's The hand holding tactics enemies use provides for some fun crowd control plays/multikills that aggressive players can take advantage of for some fun moments even though the score is 50-135 lol.
Conditonal Finality is still a serious crutch and huge problem. They obviously wont address it becuase conditional finality is a pay to win weapon. And YES, it is. The gun is completely broken and devoid of any need for actual skill at all. It requires purchase of Lightfall to earn so of course they wont be nerfing it until at least The Final Shape. People have crutched special weapons so hard to pad their KD in crucible. When thats gone they throw abilities or simply wait for super. These are needed changes but unfortunately it is resulting in team shooting from lanes and doorways which is hard to counter without abilities. So, a new problem arises....
I think we’re in a good in between at the moment, however lane-ing is essential. IMO it always has been, but has been overshadowed by people who ape with special best. So that means the best weapon now are the ones that lane the best. I think as this meta develops, people are going to figure out how to combine higher TTK closer range weapons with movement (and abilities cause there’s still a lot of them)to close the gap. When this happens the pace of the game is going to increase and I think it will get a lot more fun and competitive. Unless KY Jelly shotgun continues to reign supreme and destroy every bubble and well it crosses 😉
This mindset almost killed D2 year 1, and if you ask any real hardcore pvp main I would bet that they would say that Forsaken was the best time for destiny pvp, and it had way more special ammo than this with scavenger perks.
K, I'm done. Now we got YT lobbying for D1 team shooting like Y1. IF BUMP INTO 2 PPL U WILL LOSE. Absolutely NO strategy with no special ammo, reduced ability recovery, increased health, etc... He says team shot can be countered. I have a 2.5+ k/d across most fps and it is not counterable. You will consistently see opps turtle while team shooting. I'm done.
Pretty much agree on all counts. Ability spam is the main cheese now. Special feels a lot more balanced. Perks like frenzy are going to get some more play bc you arent getting OHK as much and there is a lot more team shooting and peaking. Ace feels incredible, the damage when you proc the perk is god mode. all other 140's feel a bit trash. EP rose is underwhelming now due to the body shot changes, which needs to be fixed honestly because EP shouldnt be a nerf overall to the gun and that sucks. Running Ace with an SMG actually feels really good in QP bc most of the time you dont have a way to deal with close range. Special does feel like it is still useful in comp and trials. Well and Bubble are still rampant which is unfortunate, making a shutdown super or conditional kind of required if you arent running one of those.
Thoughtful comment. I hope the EP weirdness gets fixed soon, it’s basically useless atm. Instead of double primary I like to lean into movement with ace and either play it close with a shotgun and use movement to keep all my engagements CQC (provided it’s not eternity or a big map lol) or pair it with a sniper and play long using movement to get away from the apes.
I think the update is great. I just returned and hit Ascendant in 2 evenings as a solo *I definitely notice the lowered ability cooldowns. I die less to cheese noticeably *I think the super reduction was probbaly since well and bubble run trials anyway. I play comp at 5 intellect and got my super every game - I did have very high kill games though and I think its probably because I didnt hop into comp until very late in the season when more casual players are playing *Specials are definitely great and meant for punishing bad decisions made by opposition. Sometimes I'll have 11 rounds in my special before needing to pull it out * I do notice ppl who are paired up do try and team shoot more but as a solo halo player for 20 years, this doesnt bother me. I'm pretty good about knowing how to deal with it or disengage and reposition if it feels unwinnable. *I notice a much higher skill ceiling now. I'm an above average player. Not some super pro but ive matched other unbrokens or some flawless ppl in comp and have been able to walk all over them. This could be either A. Paid titles or B. Players who crutched special so heavily they are poor knowing how to engage in a primary fight. I have no complaints about this update. I think more work can be done to improve it but this in my opinion was an A+ change made by Bungie. I know some people dont like it and I think thats probably people who did crutch special but D2s primary gun play is some of the most satisfying in the fps genre and I love how much more people are forced into it. My play style has remained the same and I feel like ive been rewarded for it. Engage with my primary and utilize my dodge and fusion to counter shotgun rushers. Now I dont have to do that as much.
Thoughtful write up there, I think this update has paid off for everyone that developed real weapon skill and good position/movement over the last couple years. Now that the majority of peoples cheeky crutches have been put behind the barrier of you actually have to play the game and get some kills with a primary, there’s a lot more room for smarter gameplay to rise to the top.
@@itsjustsideways I agree. I definitely like it. I think a few things could change here and there. I'm not against even more ability tuning but I wonder how majority of the community would react if they hit them again.
The just feels like year 1 PVP all over again. I cannot bend a corner without getting team shot. Most of my games are full of autos, scouts, and pulse rifle users that are scared to engage anything.
Work the higher movement classes and learn how to close the gap with higher TTK weapons. Not always possible when you get Eternity 1/3 maps but still worth adapting to.
i started playing PvP 2 weeks before the change. i hate the new sandbox. i hate the lack of special. if i wanna run around with a shotty, let me :( the whole game is about insta killing everything. let me insta kill shit :( i wanna have fun
See I hear this a lot. I think bungie should have a separate mode, like mayhem. But instead of near unlimited abilities, it’s unlimited ammo for specials. Then everyone could run around ape town and have a good time without affecting the balance of the main sandbox for the sweaty’s that like this game.
It just seems slower and boring now. Even watching your 49 kill game was boring. Just hard scoping with AR’s. Some special weapons were problematic and needed addressing but this new pvp seems…meh
You've nailed it on all fronts. Excellent breakdown. I think they are really committed to finding ways to get more people into PvP since Destiny is about to enter a kind of "just existing" game for a few years.
Yeah but they also basically killed special weapon usage in d2 pvp sending it back to stone ages, there's no flashy double triple headshot sniping no crazy shotgun plays its just handhold teammates besides there was a time in d2 when special ammo drop got balanced down to 2, handcanons were usable, pulses were usable, scout (mainly dmt) was usable, smgs were usable but those times are gone - like if you farmed yourself a really nice defiance of yasmin don't you wanna use it? And its not like people always crutched on special ammo either cus there was a time where the balance between specials and primaries were very good and you'd see people use their primaries alongside their specials
🙏 more content is coming, it will be a slower pace at first but I will ramp it up over the next month or so and plan to be at full speed by final shape.
Been there lol, especially on the edge of adept/ascendant. Worst matchmaking I’ve experienced in my life. Loosing 2lbs in sweat a game just for a +20 rank win, only to get matched with toddlers for teammates next game and take a -200 rank L.
I think it's "No time to explain". It's an exotic and has generally always been a top teir pulse rifle.. Edit, He uses No time to begin with. middle of the video it's one to the new guns altered this week from Prophecy dungeon (old trials guns)
Fewer shotguns, fewer grenade launchers, fewer abilities = good. Abilities and these weapons do not require any skill. I have no problem with snipers, skilled weapons. More primaries = good.
I agree it was to much, that being said the issue wasn’t that bad players could get a few easy kills, the problem was good players getting basically all of their kills with them and running like crazy with shotguns through teams dropping 30+ a game.
I think if we can maximize skill required to compete at maximum effectiveness without entirely gutting what people have “fun” with (abilities, special) the game will get better. There needs to be the right touch of ability and special to keep Destiny feeling like Destiny.
@@itsjustsideways destiny 2 is a fps. Strange people don't have fun shooting other people with ar, smg, sniper. Gunplay is good. I nearly only play with a primary (ntte being my favorite because of the skin, sound and damages).
I kind of hate the new changes to crucible. Special ammo is what made it fun and accessible to lower skilled people like me, now I feel like I stand practically no chance in primary only fights. It wouldn’t even be so bad if the rate of ammo generation wasn’t so awful.. but it is.
@@itsjustsideways I don’t believe that ‘a game for everyone is a game for no one’. The game doesn’t have to appeal to just one subset of player (like sweats) to be engaging and enjoyable. PVP was enjoyable for people of all skill levels in the past, that’s what drew so many people into Destiny.. because it was so accessible. The ammo system we had for years worked well and gave players of all skill levels at least a decent fighting chance if they weren’t skilled with primaries. A skilled primary player could still stomp a lower-skilled special user 8/10 times, but at least lower skilled people had a chance then. Now with it being mostly primary (along with the bad matchmaking), it’s almost completely in favor of sweats and high skilled players. The way special generates now just causes snowballing, as people that are already good get more special ammo from getting more kills and less skilled players get almost none, If they’re struggling.. It’s just unbalanced. We already had an almost entirely primary based meta back in Vanilla D2, and that wasn’t very good so I’m not sure why Bungie is rushing us back in that direction.
This new meta of the entire team sitting in the back waiting for the enemy to approach then team shooting that player, rinse repeat, get special ammo, continue sitting in the back now using snipers, snow balling into a match that is 30 to 150 without any fucking change in sight....yeah..."fun"
that's also what i think is the problem and i feel like special weapons made room for that long range play style because people were tired of BS shotgun and fusion users so they sit in the back to stay away from it i also hate the guy that sits in the back with jade rabbit all game but there's nothing pushing them to move away from the back either
There’s so much room for engagement in close/medium ranges. Just learn good movement and get yourself an adjudicator or prosecutor. The moment you can put some pressure on a team like that and flush out the lane campers the whole dynamic of a match changes.
Normal Person reporting in. I spend about 25% of my time in PvP, and I am somewhere right in the middle of the skill bell curve. Which means I am often above average in 6v6 matches, but usually below, or well below average in a trials match. The biggest things that I noticed with this sandbox update is that it made all the good players even better. I have been punching over my skill level for awhile with OK positioning, team shooting, weapon selections with good body shot damage, and a general goal to put in damage and not die. With the update I now put in less damage with miss/bodyshots, and I am constantly being surprised at the speed of my deaths. Which I don't totally get, because optimal TTk didn't change, so why do I feel like I am getting killed faster in trials? In the past, two shots with a 120 and back in to cover would be fine most every time. Now, if I try to peak for a second shot before regening health, or just stay out of cover for two shots, I am getting killed by faster TTk weapons VERY frequently! Throw in the new card for trials that gets me an adept for staying in the challenger pool and just getting 6 pairs of wins, and I ended up spends a LOT of time getting absolutely trashed in trials, and not having much fun. I don't think many mid skill players are going to stay around any longer than they need to pick up a good cataphract, and get back to PvE. That said, I hopped in to comp to work towards some artiface armor, and with SMBB in effect, it all felt pretty good!
Most well constructed comment I’ve read so far, thanks for the thought and effort. I think this dilemma is interesting and I could not agree with you more when you said the update has made good players better. I think you’re probably a little better than you think you are, and that’s a factor too. The game can feel very uncomfortable and punishing when you’re rising in skill level. But if you’re having a good time in comp it means matchmaking is working for people in the middle to upper middle of the bell curve and that gives me more hope.
The artifice armor drop rate isn't good in comp. On top of that, the stats can be 59 and below
@@danmancino22 Ya, thats true, but it leads back to one of my other major theories on rewards in destiny. Many people have cried for better rewards, particularly in trials, so more people will play. I think this is a bad idea. When you put good rewards into an activity that is not enjoyable, it does not fix the activity, it only makes more people play it, and subsequently have a bad experience for longer, until they end up quitting, or getting on reddit to complain. But a GOOD activity, with rewards that are just barely useful will be much better. This is the perfect example. Am I in there playing comp for 9+ matches because I need to get the artifice armor? Not at all. HOWEVER, if I am in there, and its enjoyable because the match making is working well, and the sandbox is working well, then artifice armor drops are a really nice bonus, and every once in a while I might even get one I don't delete. Its not much, but its enough that I feel like more time played actually has a secondary benefit. If I just played in the quickplay playlist, I would be deleting 100% of the drops, with no chance for anything I might actually keep. So comp right now for me sits in that nice little niche were it actually enjoyable and has a little bonus reward. Unfortunately the draw of adept loot, and the fact that I am just good enough that its not IMPOSSIBLE to get has pulled me in to trials for another weekend that has gone miserably, and I wish that I had not played.
Agree I've spent 30 hours this weekend on the new trials card just to get 1 done ,pvp in this game sucks more then any other pvp out there ,it also has to do with the fact trials needs to b sbmm and Bungie really needs lobby balance. To many time I faught a flawless tem with a team of pve player so many 5 to 0 games it's was soul crushing
Destiny pvp has sucked for like 3 years ,where is the gun fights, guardians are airplane,s on feet ,it's more akin to dog fights then gun fights .just soul crushing pvp man .I think they should ban exotics armour included,or give a list of weapons u can use each season
ive always fit into a more defensive long rang playstyle, and have seen myself improve drastically recently, whether because ive been more aware of my positioning or maybe the changes have helped, but something has helped
IMO you’ve been playing the real game the whole time, it should be mostly about working angles. With brief moments of faster paced play when the specials come out or someone closes the gap. 24/7 aping just isn’t fun or what the game is at its core.
Less special ammo and health changes makes playing pvp a little more boring imo, my K/D has even increased with the change by like 10-15%, but I honestly would prefer something sitting in the middle of what we had and what we have now. Maybe just a touch quicker special gain, tied to using primaries more so than objs
I think we’re pretty close to the right pacing, though you got me thinking. What if you got a little more special transmat for a headshot kill? That might be just enough to be meaningful.
Some of you mfs need to listen to this guy. He’s very fluent in speaking FACTS
I absolutely hate joining a game in progress with this update. It often means you have no specials and no supers going up against a team that has already farmed ammo and super. This is happening so often and it sucks.
Interesting. I luckily didn’t get many joins in progress, apart from one horrible 3v3 clash game. The other team was 5 or 6 rounds deep with fusions and shotguns, let’s just say I left just like the people before me lol
Maps are too tunnel based compared to D1, sniper flinch and lack of ammo makes them useless, giving all classes freeroam supers was bad, hunter GG still has not been fixed with the lowest duration, shotgun fest, too many aoe/homing weapons. And more
You take on hand holding is completely wrong, it is not easy to shut down. All my games are now are me running around with my team and using a auto ir a scout depending the map. Double primary is better than using a special. Bungie keeps trying to make destiny something it was never supposed to be - a balanced competitive shooter. Adleast before the update the game was fun. Dont even get me started on how boring 3v3 and trials is. And im not a titan player nor do i ever use a shot gun or fusion. Im actually performing better in this new meta but ive never been so bored.
Mouse and key? My guess is this is a controller player take. Curious to see your crucible report too. 😉
@@itsjustsideways I am a mouse and keyboard player.
@@itsjustsideways I don't like publicly putting out my in game name on TH-cam comments but if you hmu in discord I'll give it to you. ☺️
I’m down, gonna be out of town for a few days. But when I get back I’ll hit you up. Maybe we can run some games?
even with the changes 90% of my clan all voted the same thing "i will play final shape and then im done" and this includes my right now it still feels like bungie is the lil kid who F-up big time and all there giveing us is a im sowy too meany times has the ball been drop sorry to say but after final shape i dont see destiny 2 liveing long hell i dont see them haveing a playerbase 3 months after final shape 😟
Your clan sounds like a bunch of weenie hut juniors
The teamshooting is hilariously bad, its honestly a worst state than before. One way to fix it it think is to make the ttk values exactly like d1
lol, idk if it will ever be as bad as Uriel’s meta.
The problem I have is all anyone does now is just sit with each other, holding each other‘s hands with pulse rifles and scout rifles and it is just miserable. I like special ammo. It was a lot of fun and I understand its problem in the sandbox not having it all the time is honestly not what I have a problem with. It’s the changes they made to the primaries were so aggressively awful. I’m not trying to come off as rude but saying 120 still slap is just in an inaccurate statement. Before they had the lowest time to kill out of the archetypes, but they were forgiving, two head shots, one body shot and the range also helped out a lot making them able to compete with other weapons. But now you have to land all three Headshots without precision instrument so you have to be perfect to get the lowest time to kill in the game that is inherently stupid. I also think checkmate in six vs six is a bad idea. There should be a place where people are allowed to practice special ammo. How are people supposed to practice how to use it effectively if they almost never get it. And a place where people who don’t really like the checkmate changes are still allowed to have fun and crucible. Bungee desperately needs to change some things. I am sick of seeing dead man’s tail and no time to explain in every single game and I’m sick of having to use them just feel like I can compete. When my friend and I went flawless last weekend, it was one of those boring trials weekends I’ve ever had all I did was sit in the back with no time to explain because that’s all I was allowed to do or I was mowed down by the dead man’s tails or prosecutor. They desperately need to fix this or crucible is gonna die because it’s just turning into pulses and scouts and prosecutor. I would honestly rather deal with the special spam then just sit there almost AFK with a pulse or a scout.
Bubbles, Wells, Titan Barricade and Threadlings are super obnoxious right now. And if you want the TTK to stay this way then get used to hand holding all day in the Crucible. Your counters to hand holding aren't gonna be figured out by the average Crucible player that doesn't no life PvP.
They need to reduce ability cool downs further and put the TTK back to the way it was. The TTK was perfect. Abilities and special ammo were always the problem.
I think super balancing is a huge factor. But right now if you have a moderate amount of game sense you can break a group of team shooters. The problem atm is that it’s a new sandbox and people who no life are trying to play it safe and protect K/D with a few weeks I think we’ll see the meta evolve and the pace of the game increase.
Been playing the game off and on since vanilla Destiny. Got back into it before Lightfall, my buddies and i were disappointed with the constant cheating and facing mnk (we are all console) players when playing trials. We just came back to see how the update is and it’s going in the right direction. I like the new changes and team play is way more important now. Wish they would leave freelance trials tho for when my buddies aren’t online
i just hate that bungie took away special because i am getting worse and worse at the game because i dont get to use special that much and i am not aping or anything i am just using special as my secondary with is the rerason bungie gave us primary and secondary and why not add modes where you dont have the checmate modifier and also bungie nerfed bows with is like why when wish ender was the only problem and wish ender still hits as hard
Damn, this is exactly why bungie made the changes they did 😂
I couldn’t be happier to shut down players who before the update didn’t know what a primary is. In rumble I was always seeing players with 20k plus PvP kills on a fusion & 100 kills on their primary
1:28 blud tf are you taking about 😭
Since when has special ammo been a free kill. Having games snowball isn’t any better 💀
Telesto? Timelost? Yucky. How about Copium (Adept)
@@itsjustsideways you're not really trying to prove a point here
Now as soon as they can stop network limiters from turning rapid-fire frame pulse rounds into DMT bullets we will be in a much better place.
faced at least 26 of them this weekend alone in trials, 1 (rapid) bursted pulsed while killfeed writing DMT fckn lol, and a few Necrochasm abusers with the rpm buff activated with 0 kills. Fckd up game is what Pc Destiny pvp has become, its almost 50%-50% the cheatin ratio and if u include the closet wallers/aimbotters we might be a 70%-30%...
I would argue that there only is one "real" long range map... but yea there is that. Ammo economy is fine. But i dont like the other changes with HP and body/crit dmg. It just happens way tooo often that enemys get away with just 1 hp left.
Trials still is a pile of ..... Matching the same teams that stomped you 3-4 times in a row. Matching top 0.1% pvp streamer as a bad player and cheater that arent killable, have rapid fire or just onehit melee you over the whole map. Played around 60 games last we and nearly half of them where unwinnable because of one of both
Matchmaking is bad for sure, and I got net limited and lost some games with no way of playing. Not a fun feeling. I think that 1hp escape is frustrating but essential, there needs to be an importance on hitting your shots. This also allows for a reward to learn good fast movement. If you can GTFO of a bad gunfight with 1hp based on your movement, you deserve to survive.
I’m an extremely below average PVP player ever since I moved to MnK and this update has just cemented it even more, the special changes feel incredible, but outside of that the experience has been overwhelmingly negative for me. The games I play are just consistent 4-6 stack steamrolls where I go entire hours without a win as a solo, the amount of teamshotting that has been coming out over this past week has just made the experience dreadful for me. I’m aware that I’m not a crucible player so my opinion doesn’t really matter but the health changes just make all of the weapons I enjoyed using feel awful and now I just stick to meme guns like Khvostov and Husk Of The Pit because then when I get shit on it doesn’t feel as bad. The map rotation is just boring, I’ve had times where I get Citadel 4-5 times in a row immediately followed up by two back to back games of midtown. And the matchmaking has just been relentless, yet again I’m not a good player and I completely understand that, but the majority of the time it feels like I’m getting 4-5 teammates that are even worse than me (I don’t know how that’s physically possible) and the entire enemy team feels like they play nothing but trials and go flawless 20 times a weekend. The summoner and prosecutor are just consistently stomping me at any range no matter what I’m using, and I’m not good enough to even win a game of trials so I’ll never get a good summoner, and I have god awful RNG so I’ll never get a good prosecutor so I just feel helpless
Usually I can just tough out the meta for a few weeks and feel myself improve a little but this time I’ve put almost 10 resets into crucible rank and I still just feel like a New Light. Although I’m glad people are enjoying this new update, it just seems like it’s time for me to give up on PvP as a whole
First video of yours I have seen from TH-cam's recommended feed. What a polarising 1st video, lol.
I am a filthy PvP casual. I jump in rarely when I fancy a bit of self-flagellation! I tend to run snipers w' either a pulse or scout. Or, if I am feeling myself, I'll jump on my Hunter with my Ace of Spades. I can honestly say PvP feels the same to me, irrespective of the changes made to special ammo & HP. I still either roll or get rolled. I still loathe shotgun + melee spammers. I still giggle at the rare sword user when they get heavy ammo and run at me like bloody Leeroy Jenkins. I still scream "f*** yeah" when I hit a headshot on my snipe (my D2 aim is atrocious - I'm a CS guy).
I play Destiny as a PvX game. Predominantly PvE but enough PvP to be interested somewhat. I feel it is intended that way and I get the most enjoyment out of it.
As a former casual PvP player, I stay away from it all now. It used to be fun but not anymore. I run PC and as soon as I see someone, before I can fire a shot...."BOOM" it's lights out. Got a really good system, running Hi-Speed internet with average 950Mbps download & 40Mbps upload. Tried using mouse/keyboard and console controller with the same result. In the past I could average top three in matches in Iron Banner, 6v6. Did well in competition and trails on a good day, then something changed. I don't think I am the only one experiencing this and it just caused many of us not to play PvP. Is it cheating? Are players using "devices" to gain advantage? Is match making way off kilt? Have my skills just deterioated? Not sure, but it has made it intolerable to play. I still enjoy watching streamers and videos of folks playing PvP but just not enthusiastic to attempt PvP anymore.
i just wanted 2 diffrent game modes.. but no... we cant have that, we have to have this change across the board... i hate it.. im not bad at this game mode, in fact I'm very good at it, but i still like having access to special weps after i die or after a kill. and i just want there to be 2 different game modes. I hate being limited and i hate that this change is in every mode now, it wasnt in gurdian games play list for a week, but bungie changed that pretty quickly.
Same. Its boring.
I don't mind not seeing the inevitable Bubble to capture the last round in Trials and supers not activating overall. As a mid player, I definitely feel the special drop snowball effect on my head. Great playing and video, thanks.
Idk, I think they need to half the amount of special or do some of additional special nerf. I still get killed by special 60% of the time and only dying to primary like 20% of the time. I think ability cooldowns are fine where they are at, but they might need to rework the exotics that let you stack two of an ability to something more creative. Like maybe a double cooldown rate or something that improves regen overall. It’s not bad when you come across one person running it, but then you have a whole team of double stasis grenade warlocks and it’s kind of just stupid how many they can throw out.
Yeah that double capacity cold snap is totally out of hand, nothing to counter it than running it yourself. Almost as bad as when you would get 3x behemoths with icefall back in the day just walling you off and shiver striking your happy ass off the map.
I’m perfectly fine with this meta it’s my fighting style anyways game needs to be more strategic less cheesy.
I am playing this weekend on the new card to get the adept summoner. I am average or maybe mid player with some other good people on my team. What I noticed thus weekend, the first pool you get in to play, I get matched up with people already went flawless for the weekend, people way above my skill gap, and get the crap stomped out of me. It doesn't seem to improve until I grind out the first win. Then I start getting better matches. It does not make it fun to be matched up against people with 1 million crucible kills for the entire other team and people on my team have 1k combined. Second, they higher skill people are rewarded with the change with the reduction of body shot damage and the higher health pool. Many times that extra health has cost me kills because someone else on thier team buddy shot me. It is hard to improve as a player when you get matched with people far above your skill, get wiped out and you, as a mid player get nerfed while the higher skill people get buffed. I am trying to get better, play through trials each week, but this weekend has felt the worst in years. They really need to fix this skill gap matching issue and lobby balance. I don't want hand outs, but I also don't want to get matched with people with hundreds of flawless when I have none, you don't get better that way because you have no time to learn what you did wrong or how to improve.
Very true. My same experience. Totally one-sided games most of the time. A single experienced player can now wipe an entire team, while still playing somewhat aggressively. Soul-crushing.
Yeah match making is still horrible, especially for people who are getting better and transitioning through different levels of play. Some games feel fair and challenging, others are totally unwinable and no fun at all. Try lfg-ing for people around your elo. I know it can be a toxic cesspool of chodes saying 3.0+ K/D or go home, but I’ve found lots of chill dudes just looking to get the adept weapon and farm out their 7 wins card. Also easier time matchmaking in 3’s.
Yeah match making is still horrible, especially for people who are getting better and transitioning through different levels of play. Some games feel fair and challenging, others are totally unwinable and no fun at all. Try lfg-ing for people around your elo. I know it can be a toxic cesspool of chodes saying 3.0+ K/D or go home, but I’ve found lots of chill dudes just looking to get the adept weapon and farm out their 7 wins card. Also easier time matchmaking in 3’s.
Bro I'm a pve player but for the past 2 weeks I've been grinding pvp , and as the 1834 blueberry that I am the state of pvp is awful, if you don't get steam rolled at the start you have 2 deal with the opposition holding hands team shoting you or your bullets not registered properly and I'm hard wired to my router 2 meters away, the game feels so unbalanced, everytime I look at the leader board at the end of a match all I see is warlock 35 kills , warlocks 40kills , warlock 50kills , the mini map is so retarded and needs removing , people camp with a pulse rifle at the edge of the map already looking down sights ready to beam you as soon as you come round the corner or even peek , then you get spawn trapped and spammed by supers running back into the fight from your spawn or someone spawns close to you and you get insta melted , but one of the worst things in pvp is the pistols , you don't win against a pistol period , the bullet tracking is ridiculous and unless the guy is terrible your getting 2 tapped or even 1 tapped , they are over powered as he'll, I play trials , supremacy, control and its the same in all 3 game types, and with the content drought I'm really struggling to find a reasonable point to play this game. Don't get me wrong I can hold my own its not all salt and stress , I've been at the top of the winning side but all I'm trying to say is pvp is not fun whatsoever and that why it's dead , dont even let me get started on the evaluating guardians looking for a match for 5 minutes just to get shit on in the first 5 minutes chasing the game just to be destroyed of spawn 7 times in a row, pvp needs so much work it's pretty much a lost cause because bungie hasn't got the resources or time to make it truly better in the current climate of layoffs and Sony disapproval , then there's the cronus max users and the hackers you have to deal with , its truly is a shit storm on a mine field to have some sort of resemblance of fun and is not worth anyone's time.
Thank you. It is garbage. That's why the community hailed Bungie when they reverted it back to spawning with special. I'm now unable to push completely bcuz I have to save ammo for objective plays or Supers smh...
Bruh this comment spills I need help. Regardless what you do someone will be upset. Bring specials back then what? Spam it and die? Now you have to use your primary and be smart. Do things to throw the enemy team off. If somehow you're on a bad team, well try and see how you can utilize a bad situation to improve. Even if it's a small improvement m
Console player here, the handholding feels way more frequent here than when I play PC lobbies with a friend, some people just don’t challenge anymore and opt to backpedal engagements, which punishes me cause I like to play fast and aggressive, this becomes more frustrating the more ppl playing this way, I know I will have to change weapon playstyles but I definetly feel how less special affects easy usage strats over good game sense. I like to use snipers both long range and aggressive quick scope plays, and this changes plus the nerf to snapshot WAY back just took snipers really down for me personally. Would like to know ur thought on the last part.
Yeah bungie doesn’t want you to use snipers like that, especially not with generous aim assist lol. I think we all learned how not fun that is from MW2 quickscoping. Snipers are in a good spot, you should be afraid of wasting the ammo. They shouldn’t be a push weapon like a shotgun.
would be nice if they nerfed slide shotgunning, warlock double melee or some supers's pratically invulnerable while others are wet paper.
the dawn blade Worlock that lasts for years and travels faster than all supers is flying last for 30 seconds hard to kill and One hits anyone hunter super get hit by shotgun dies instantly
the excessive ammount of aim assist esp using controller on pc is going to turn this "primary meta" into a shit show. drang and thumbsticks could run the world.
There needs to be some serious enforcement on xim chronus and the like, and honestly just a reduction in aim assist across the board for the rollers. They have good deadzone settings now, bout time they stop making the game aim for them.
youve been able to edit deadzones since destiny 1.@@itsjustsideways
Great video man. This was my first time seeing one of your videos but you presented it well with many great points. Also, you’re cracked at PVP gonna try to watch you play more and learn what I can. You got yourself a subscriber. Keep up the great work:)
Thanks dude, it’ll take some time for me to increase the pace of uploads but I am committed. I want to create videos more focused on dissecting PVP gameplay and talk more strategy and approach. I dislike the idea of advanced PvP videos being all about stats and nerdy details and want to talk more about application of tools (weapons perks abilities) and how to integrate them for maximum effectives depending on gameplay style. Thanks for watching, it means the world!
I prefer primary engagements, and I like how you have to earn special ammo.
Oh look, a meta rage baby whining about special in a game about SPACE MAGIC. [sigh] Look guy, if you want "pRiMaRy GuNfIgHtS", there's plenty of other games for you... Halo, Valorant, Call of Dooty, Battlefield.... people ruining what makes Destiny Destiny by trying to make it like every other shooter out there really pisses me off. These shit changes need to be reverted. Can I adapt? Sure. Am I having far less fun? Definitely. Skill-based matchmaking in my god damned PARTY MODES, no Elimination, Trials with a shitty flag that can be bubbled on 3/5 rounds, the list of bad changes goes on and on.
OH, and the fact the ONLY god damned super that can be used in Trials IS Bubble... because everything else has such a gargantuan cooldown at Intellect Tier-10 is crazy. I barely get my Well half the time, but the second I play Titan? Bubble come online within 2 - 3 rounds... at least one Barricade every round, sometimes two depending on build. Game needs to go back to 30th Anniversary sandbox. It was the most balanced. Yes, Thundercrash was a pain in the ass, but you could easily deal with that with a well-placed Vorpal shot. Most couldn't though. Most also didn't know how to get out of the damn way of the impact blasts.
I totally don't agree with this. We had this bullsh** all primary weapons stuff in D2 vanilla. How did that go? It was a team shoot fest. So, it's nonsense to me to hear, "Dude, special weapons takes no skill. It's not fair, man.....(hits on bong).....We super star mega skill players can't get the advantage we deserve, when eveyone can get easy kills......". Yeah, like team shooting took any skill at all. Special weapons and space magic are what made this PvP unique. The more you have of both, the better the game is.
First-time trials player here. I jumped into trials this weekend to unlock the armor. I can confirm, that it is a bad experience (and not rewarding). Good players can crush it, while average players are punished for not hitting all crits. Smg to the body seemed to do barely anything, although maybe cheating was involved? The results are extremely one-sided. Also, most people seemed to run double primary in trials, me included, because special ammo is so rare you might just forget about it. I noticed auto rifles/ pulse and sidearms being favourites and the obligatory shotgun here and there.
I don't know what they can do to fix it...but it sucks..and I'm tired of git gud...I have a life..a family...I love this game but play other games as well...so when I have to go into pvp for a certain weapon...it just sucks...I don't have time to memorize every map...or use only one weapon...but as soon as I get away from my team...I get smoked before I can even aim down sights..I just wish it was more fair....if they put a bunch of ppl who only get 10 kills a game...together...then maybe playing them for awhile..I could or we all could get better...then move up the ladder
Overall, I like the changes. I have a coordination handicap that keeps me from ever being good. I pretty much exclusively play 6v6 pvp anymore (the rest of the game is pretty stale). I was running double primaries during the special meta to keep from feeding enemies special ammo. I have noticed many more players at or below my skill level lately which used to be pretty rare. I am winning gunfights instead of just getting shotgunned or sniped. It finally feels like my map knowledge is paying off. I certainly have seen a large increase in people traveling in packs and teamshotting (especially with autos).
Side note: I am impressed by the quality of your analysis. It is nice to see a new content creator come out of the gate with good analysis and rational takes. Someday I will be proud to say I was one of your first 300 subs.
I for one celebrate seeing less shotguns.
I always liked pvp but I never honestly bothered with learning it when every match I joined I would always get banged by slide shotguns 90% of the time.
Now it feels way better for me and I might actually give it a try and learn
The reason they made this much more better is because I wanted bungo to create a new system that can actually crush players pvp mechanic comfort
People always want overpowered things because it is what they will drench there saliva on for basically (meta)
Id rather have more primary fights because you’ll technically have more random plays basically
Id rather have people use more primary over special usages because of shotguns
The damage changes are good though I’d say because it’s gonna try to persuade players to use something different too
I love the new update if you are complaining about how you don't like it cuz you can't just spam special weapons anymore then that's the problem. Tho I will say some specials should have different counters as snipers take actual skill to use compared to fusions and shotguns so I will say they should change the counter dependent on the special weapon and say if you change to a shotgun to sniper to get ammo faster it would reset the timer tho i also see the problem with more primaries as many people now adays just sit in the back of the map with pulse/scouts so i guess there really is no biggg fix for PvP
I forgot to mention, I died to the same golden gun multiple times on Dead Cliffs just like the old days. I don't think anything can fix that map though.
ok ayn rand, shooting simultaneously with others being beneficial is a fairly obvious consequence of the dynamics in most shooting games
Reduce auto rifle flinch
Increase hand cannon flinch
Gotta get away from this auto rifle bot meta
For sure, a bigger problem for controller vs M+K. There’s nothing more frustrating than homies aim assist negating his flinch when my aim gets trashed by my flinch.
I disagree about it being an auto rifle meta. Almost every archetype of almost every weapon type is seeing more use now, scout rifles in general, non-high-impact pulses finally, auto rifles in general outside of Ammit, sidearms too. HCs are still very strong and dominant too, 140's are by no means bad.
HC flinch was reduced for a reason, it shouldn't be reverted given how dominant HC's have been for the games literal entire lifespan. Something needed to change, they tried range in the past and it didn't work, they tried less stable HCs and it didn't work, so the flinch needs to go. Everything else about HCs is still top tier by playing the exact same as before.
The diversity and splitting off from HC dominance is a necessity and godsend at this point. Hand Cannons had their time to be the gods of destiny and are still at the top of the usage charts, they're fine as they are, everything else deserves a chance to be used for once.
@@itsjustsideways Real question how many muscles do you use for the mouse vs the controller
@@NuclearRizzicist they’re trying to make the skill ceiling mean something mark my words they’ll need autos within a month or two,
I like where hand cannons are at personally I just think they need to be able to flinch auto rifle spammers
And they’re not top of the charts auto rifle took the top spots this week 1/2/4 positions overall most use weapon by almost a million kills
Autos need fine tuning down and handcannons need mild flinch upgrades
@@johnh5909 auto rifles becoming usable wont warrant a nerf. What makes someone a spammer? Using the gun that's in the game? Like how HCs were spammed for nearly a decade straight? God forbid auto rifles see a bit of popularity though lmao.
Auto rifles are seeing a rise in usage not only because of HC changes, but because of the SMG Target Lock nerf too, this has also caused sidearms to rise in power. Its not as simple or straightforward as it just being "autos OP HCs need buff", there's alot more at play here to take into consideration. You nerf autos, we go right back to the SMG dominance you people have complained about for the last 2 years. Buff hand cannons back up, autos cant compete in their intended range anymore, just like before.
Do some research and look at everything collectively, its not as simple as nerfing and buffing one and another thing. Also, if flinch really is your issue, then A) invest into more unflinching mods on your chest, or more stability in your HC. These are the kinds of choices Bungie intended for us to weigh and make. Alternatively, B) invest in High Caliber Rounds. Ace of Spades is currently being hyped for remaining a strong contender in the new sandbox, try that out to do more flinch. High Caliber Rounds now serves a purpose, increasing HC flinch would make it nigh useless again.
In short, HCs dont need a buff, and Auto Rifles don't need nerfed. You need to change how you build and look at things, adapt to the game instead of asking for it to cater to your wants and needs. Again, Hand Cannons had nearly a decade of dominance, you will live if theyre not the tippy top at all times this time around.
Gonna say it
Fusions have a bad wrap.
Shotguns are far less skillful to use as a special. Always has been.
I was trying to play passage of persistence this weekend and I kept getting put against sweats that I had no chance of beating whatso ever. I couldn't get that second win on my card to get my card started so I could continue forward
Solo queuing? Or 3 stack? I’ve had some incredibly frustrating matches running solo
@@itsjustsideways solo...
Getting special ammo progress for dying is like call of duty where you got death streaks. Get something for being bad. Still a good change. I still feel like trials should be locked loadouts
Yes sir, locked load outs should be mandatory in trials and comp. We were pumped about the exotic armor removing your super change a while ago. But yes, great comment .
The pvp was at its peak with forsaken and about a year after. Then they went F2P and stopped caring about pvp. They let it get as unbalanced as possible. They let special become ridiculous to the point you never needed a primary. They made abilities so cheap as well. It was chaos. There was 0 skill and the skill gap was null. The pvp population plummeted hard. A lot of us core players left. This is the only fps in the world where you were able to have 0 skill and manage to win. We finally have a pvp team again and this update helped a lot. The main changes left still are nerfing 450 rpm ars, bubble/well, OS barricade and rift, and igneous range by a bit. This is the only game where I see so many noobs and casuals feeling entitled to being good without much effort. They are finally trying to make the game better and I'm here for it. Side note: REMOVE ARTIFACT MODS FROM PVP LOL. And also, the game should just reduce aim assist by like 10-20 percent.
The fact that every once in a while you can get a goofy ass artifact mod like this free radiant one we have, or classy restoration is absurd to me. There’s no way you can have interesting perks in there if they mess with PvP. And as far as AA you and me both. I’m tired of goofy controller players crunching on the sticks.
As a solo PvP purist on the higher end of the skill curve, this update has just been a net-positive for me. My ability to dictate a game with nothing but my primary skill which has gone unused for years has gone up drastically. Gunfights instead of ending with an army of threadlings and two lightning nades now end with me learning from my mistakes, like using cover more often and disengaging properly. Overall it has shifted PvP from ability and special crutching/spamming to actual IQ, positioning, peak shooting, and managing your special usage which is a mini-game in itself.
Although you still get those mathematically impossible matches with skewed teammates, it feels less oppressive. And in 6's The hand holding tactics enemies use provides for some fun crowd control plays/multikills that aggressive players can take advantage of for some fun moments even though the score is 50-135 lol.
Beautiful said, I could not agree more.
Conditonal Finality is still a serious crutch and huge problem. They obviously wont address it becuase conditional finality is a pay to win weapon. And YES, it is. The gun is completely broken and devoid of any need for actual skill at all. It requires purchase of Lightfall to earn so of course they wont be nerfing it until at least The Final Shape. People have crutched special weapons so hard to pad their KD in crucible. When thats gone they throw abilities or simply wait for super. These are needed changes but unfortunately it is resulting in team shooting from lanes and doorways which is hard to counter without abilities. So, a new problem arises....
I think we’re in a good in between at the moment, however lane-ing is essential. IMO it always has been, but has been overshadowed by people who ape with special best. So that means the best weapon now are the ones that lane the best. I think as this meta develops, people are going to figure out how to combine higher TTK closer range weapons with movement (and abilities cause there’s still a lot of them)to close the gap. When this happens the pace of the game is going to increase and I think it will get a lot more fun and competitive. Unless KY Jelly shotgun continues to reign supreme and destroy every bubble and well it crosses 😉
This mindset almost killed D2 year 1, and if you ask any real hardcore pvp main I would bet that they would say that Forsaken was the best time for destiny pvp, and it had way more special ammo than this with scavenger perks.
Too much special ruins the game too, I think we’re striking the right balance now. I think the next years will be the best PvP has ever been.
The dark days of d2 are coming back quickly
K, I'm done. Now we got YT lobbying for D1 team shooting like Y1. IF BUMP INTO 2 PPL U WILL LOSE. Absolutely NO strategy with no special ammo, reduced ability recovery, increased health, etc... He says team shot can be countered. I have a 2.5+ k/d across most fps and it is not counterable. You will consistently see opps turtle while team shooting. I'm done.
Connection is trash I can not get a good server and none of my shots register
Pretty much agree on all counts. Ability spam is the main cheese now. Special feels a lot more balanced. Perks like frenzy are going to get some more play bc you arent getting OHK as much and there is a lot more team shooting and peaking. Ace feels incredible, the damage when you proc the perk is god mode. all other 140's feel a bit trash. EP rose is underwhelming now due to the body shot changes, which needs to be fixed honestly because EP shouldnt be a nerf overall to the gun and that sucks. Running Ace with an SMG actually feels really good in QP bc most of the time you dont have a way to deal with close range. Special does feel like it is still useful in comp and trials. Well and Bubble are still rampant which is unfortunate, making a shutdown super or conditional kind of required if you arent running one of those.
Thoughtful comment. I hope the EP weirdness gets fixed soon, it’s basically useless atm. Instead of double primary I like to lean into movement with ace and either play it close with a shotgun and use movement to keep all my engagements CQC (provided it’s not eternity or a big map lol) or pair it with a sniper and play long using movement to get away from the apes.
@@itsjustsideways I'm just running double primary bc I keep pulling out an empty shotty out of muscle memory and its annoying lol
Moving as a team, is what real soldiers do. Imagine getting butthurt over an effective strategy.
Imagine being a good solo player, but getting matched with teammates that have to look down at the controller to remember where the buttons are.
I think the update is great. I just returned and hit Ascendant in 2 evenings as a solo
*I definitely notice the lowered ability cooldowns. I die less to cheese noticeably
*I think the super reduction was probbaly since well and bubble run trials anyway. I play comp at 5 intellect and got my super every game - I did have very high kill games though and I think its probably because I didnt hop into comp until very late in the season when more casual players are playing
*Specials are definitely great and meant for punishing bad decisions made by opposition. Sometimes I'll have 11 rounds in my special before needing to pull it out
* I do notice ppl who are paired up do try and team shoot more but as a solo halo player for 20 years, this doesnt bother me. I'm pretty good about knowing how to deal with it or disengage and reposition if it feels unwinnable.
*I notice a much higher skill ceiling now. I'm an above average player. Not some super pro but ive matched other unbrokens or some flawless ppl in comp and have been able to walk all over them. This could be either A. Paid titles or B. Players who crutched special so heavily they are poor knowing how to engage in a primary fight.
I have no complaints about this update. I think more work can be done to improve it but this in my opinion was an A+ change made by Bungie.
I know some people dont like it and I think thats probably people who did crutch special but D2s primary gun play is some of the most satisfying in the fps genre and I love how much more people are forced into it.
My play style has remained the same and I feel like ive been rewarded for it. Engage with my primary and utilize my dodge and fusion to counter shotgun rushers. Now I dont have to do that as much.
Thoughtful write up there, I think this update has paid off for everyone that developed real weapon skill and good position/movement over the last couple years. Now that the majority of peoples cheeky crutches have been put behind the barrier of you actually have to play the game and get some kills with a primary, there’s a lot more room for smarter gameplay to rise to the top.
@@itsjustsideways I agree. I definitely like it. I think a few things could change here and there. I'm not against even more ability tuning but I wonder how majority of the community would react if they hit them again.
Revoker still lives rent free in my nightmares, thanks for mentioning that lmao
Probably coming back with this into the light update 🫠
Personally i definitely felt the new spwans. Its not great but its better most definitely.
That’s gotta be total copium
The just feels like year 1 PVP all over again. I cannot bend a corner without getting team shot. Most of my games are full of autos, scouts, and pulse rifle users that are scared to engage anything.
Work the higher movement classes and learn how to close the gap with higher TTK weapons. Not always possible when you get Eternity 1/3 maps but still worth adapting to.
i started playing PvP 2 weeks before the change. i hate the new sandbox. i hate the lack of special. if i wanna run around with a shotty, let me :( the whole game is about insta killing everything. let me insta kill shit :( i wanna have fun
See I hear this a lot. I think bungie should have a separate mode, like mayhem. But instead of near unlimited abilities, it’s unlimited ammo for specials. Then everyone could run around ape town and have a good time without affecting the balance of the main sandbox for the sweaty’s that like this game.
@@itsjustsideways i would enjoy that a lot
solid commentary on this dylan. keep this shit up.😄👍
My man! It's been too long, we gotta game soon.
It just seems slower and boring now. Even watching your 49 kill game was boring. Just hard scoping with AR’s.
Some special weapons were problematic and needed addressing but this new pvp seems…meh
Game became 1 dimensional
You've nailed it on all fronts. Excellent breakdown. I think they are really committed to finding ways to get more people into PvP since Destiny is about to enter a kind of "just existing" game for a few years.
Only other 140 rpm hand cannon that feels good is not forgotten lmao
Yeah but they also basically killed special weapon usage in d2 pvp sending it back to stone ages, there's no flashy double triple headshot sniping no crazy shotgun plays its just handhold teammates besides there was a time in d2 when special ammo drop got balanced down to 2, handcanons were usable, pulses were usable, scout (mainly dmt) was usable, smgs were usable but those times are gone - like if you farmed yourself a really nice defiance of yasmin don't you wanna use it?
And its not like people always crutched on special ammo either cus there was a time where the balance between specials and primaries were very good and you'd see people use their primaries alongside their specials
Subbed
🙏 more content is coming, it will be a slower pace at first but I will ramp it up over the next month or so and plan to be at full speed by final shape.
Really good review I learned alot
Playing comp with bad matchmaking drove me to turn off the game
Been there lol, especially on the edge of adept/ascendant. Worst matchmaking I’ve experienced in my life. Loosing 2lbs in sweat a game just for a +20 rank win, only to get matched with toddlers for teammates next game and take a -200 rank L.
vigilance wing still 2 taps? whats that gun your using I just got back to destiny
That looks like Stars and Shadow. Energy weapon slot pulse rifle.
I think it's "No time to explain". It's an exotic and has generally always been a top teir pulse rifle..
Edit, He uses No time to begin with. middle of the video it's one to the new guns altered this week from Prophecy dungeon (old trials guns)
No time at the start of the video, then there’s some other footage with the summoner and adjudicator.
my goat sideways
Great analysis
Fewer shotguns, fewer grenade launchers, fewer abilities = good. Abilities and these weapons do not require any skill. I have no problem with snipers, skilled weapons. More primaries = good.
I agree it was to much, that being said the issue wasn’t that bad players could get a few easy kills, the problem was good players getting basically all of their kills with them and running like crazy with shotguns through teams dropping 30+ a game.
I think if we can maximize skill required to compete at maximum effectiveness without entirely gutting what people have “fun” with (abilities, special) the game will get better. There needs to be the right touch of ability and special to keep Destiny feeling like Destiny.
@@itsjustsideways destiny 2 is a fps. Strange people don't have fun shooting other people with ar, smg, sniper. Gunplay is good. I nearly only play with a primary (ntte being my favorite because of the skin, sound and damages).
Do you have a discord channel my friend?
Not yet, interested in setting one up soon though
...I don't play Destiny 2. why was this recommended to me?
TH-cam: Why not? 😂
You should play this game 😂 jk do what you will, it’s not a game for everyone.
Double primary it is
I kind of hate the new changes to crucible. Special ammo is what made it fun and accessible to lower skilled people like me, now I feel like I stand practically no chance in primary only fights.
It wouldn’t even be so bad if the rate of ammo generation wasn’t so awful.. but it is.
Maybe this isn’t your pvp game? Or maybe just stick to mayhem? A game for everyone is a game for no one.
@@itsjustsideways I don’t believe that ‘a game for everyone is a game for no one’. The game doesn’t have to appeal to just one subset of player (like sweats) to be engaging and enjoyable. PVP was enjoyable for people of all skill levels in the past, that’s what drew so many people into Destiny.. because it was so accessible.
The ammo system we had for years worked well and gave players of all skill levels at least a decent fighting chance if they weren’t skilled with primaries. A skilled primary player could still stomp a lower-skilled special user 8/10 times, but at least lower skilled people had a chance then.
Now with it being mostly primary (along with the bad matchmaking), it’s almost completely in favor of sweats and high skilled players. The way special generates now just causes snowballing, as people that are already good get more special ammo from getting more kills and less skilled players get almost none, If they’re struggling.. It’s just unbalanced.
We already had an almost entirely primary based meta back in Vanilla D2, and that wasn’t very good so I’m not sure why Bungie is rushing us back in that direction.
The biggest issue now is teamshooting
TEAM shooting in a TEAM shooter?
No issue here lol
Wait, people still play Destiny?
Crazy right, maybe it's actually a good game ;)
agree shotgun monkeys need to go, same as cheaters, good balanced pvp you win by 10 points not 43 to 150
This new meta of the entire team sitting in the back waiting for the enemy to approach then team shooting that player, rinse repeat, get special ammo, continue sitting in the back now using snipers, snow balling into a match that is 30 to 150 without any fucking change in sight....yeah..."fun"
It's better than what we had before.
that's also what i think is the problem and i feel like special weapons made room for that long range play style because people were tired of BS shotgun and fusion users so they sit in the back to stay away from it i also hate the guy that sits in the back with jade rabbit all game but there's nothing pushing them to move away from the back either
There’s so much room for engagement in close/medium ranges. Just learn good movement and get yourself an adjudicator or prosecutor. The moment you can put some pressure on a team like that and flush out the lane campers the whole dynamic of a match changes.
Old pvp was better