@@ServeTheHomeVideo Remember those prices are for 1k units. The individual price might be different. I would also try to figure out how much would the platform cost (cpu+mb+ram).
@@Braiam Ram you can more or less price out now and I'm guessing motherboards will be anywhere from a little to substantially less expensive than Seina boards which are around $700-$800 retail. If MB can be had for ~$500ish a fairly inexpensive server is probably very possible if you don't need more than 64gb memory.
@@concinnus I'm aware but if you wanted to guess at motherboard prices it's likely to be more than most consumer boards but less than a Siena board. Considering the B650D4U-2L2T is ~$500 I'd say I guessed about right.
Really wish they would have included extra PCI-E lanes. Something like a 4/8c chip with 48 or 64 PCI-E v5 lanes. There's not much out there for those of us wanting that kind of connectivity other than Ebay EPYC x002/x003 chips/boards.
More PCIe lanes, more RAM slots and M.2-22110 support (though that's on the MB and not the CPU). It really seems like full ECC is all the Ryzen-Epycs really add.
You mean, the effort of creating a motherboard where the manufacturer installs a pcie switch or another PCH to get more lanes? Ha ha ha, oh no. They aren't going to do that except in very special cases, very proprietary cases. Both AMD and Intel dictate implementation rules. They've been slowly taking away PCIe lanes and slots on consumer products, and they sequester remaining lanes in m.2 or add excessive 1GB NICs to tie them up. They want you buying the server or workstation platforms. Asrock Rack motherboards that have desktop processor sockets are practically no better than their desktop counterparts for this reason.
@@kaleidoscope_records_ binned for sustained performance, don't use 7950X at full boost all the time without negative offsets, they'll deteriorate in a few years; EPYC 4854 is safe to be used continuously at full boost with good cooling
Here I was hoping for an actual new product line like the introduction of something like “AM5+” with 32+4+4+4 PCIe lanes and 4 memory channels, silly me.
So excited for this, wish it had more PCIE lanes but this will be a nice upgrade for my Xeon v2 NAS once motherboards are available for the DIY market.
@@ServeTheHomeVideoI want to make a home server with a lot of pcie express lane sadly epyc 7002 to 7003 are still king with 128 pcie gen 4 lane. The ipc is secondary for me.
Agreed, a big weakness of AM5 (and AM4) in general is the very limited total number of PCIe lanes, there is nothing you'd put in a low end server that needs PCIe 5.0, the vast majority of these budget use cases would much rather have 3+ times as many 3.0 lanes.
@@wewillrockyou1986 the problem with that is it will just push the motherboard cost up to the same as a threadripper or epyc, since you still have to route all those lanes, that means a lot of layers making it very expensive. they have low core count epyc for those use cases.
@@AP_Labs Signalling is (and power) too. My point was that I'm not sure 'Desktop Ryzen's IOD supports 80-bit DDR5 Registered ECC. Server Epyc *only* supports Registered ECC. Details are laid out in a ServeTheHome article titled "Why DDR5 is Absolutely Necessary in Modern Servers"
Still kind of mixed feelings about this kind of platform for Homelab given current DDR5 UDIMM ECC prices. I bought 256GB of DDR4 3200 RDIMMs for $400, and and you're lucky to get 64GB of DDR5 for $300. Yikes. Really nice video Patrick this release has really caught me by surprise!
I was wrong it is $93 more, but this is a rounding day since I did not think it made a huge difference $90 v $93 in the context of adding 8 more cores.
Killing me with the 28 PCIE lanes. This would have been a no-brainer upgrade for my "budget" ML Workstation built on Ryzen, but not without at least 40 lanes, and I would prefer 48. Guess I'm back to waiting for used Threadripper prices to drop.
@@marcogenovesi8570 Fair point, hadn't thought of that. That aside, I wish at least one firm would make consumer-grade components with at least workstation-grade PCIE lane counts. Threadripper can add a zero to your total cost, which is insane just for PCIE bandwidth.
ECC support is good, but missed the mark on PCIe lanes. With PCIe based storage, high speed NICs, and maybe a GPU for encoding or ML models, PCIe lanes are necessary and lacking :( So close!
You talked about the 4004 series processor supporting only UDIMM ECC memory. What are your thoughts on using it in a TrueNAS Storage Appliance for home use / small business? Is RDIMM more desirable for TrueNAS?
I do not see this changing anything for those of us using their home servers for BlueIris video encoding and/or Plex video decoding I still do not see a AMD solution to Intel Quicksync. AMD really needs to invest into their iGPU development tools in/for Plex, BlueIris, Handbrake, etc. Could I use AMD and just horsepower through with cores? yes. But the power usage compared to using Quicksync to accomplish the same quality cannot be ignored.
Do you have a part number for the larger CPU cooler? That thing looks absolutely wild, I'd be interested to see what people in the SFF community could build using that with thin ITX builds!
I think it sounds like you bit your tongue before the in studio shots or else I'm going insane 😂 Cool box though, it'd be great for some basic Ai stuff too.
@@noname-gp6hk There are plenty of Ryzen 7000 motherboards but he asked about workstation motherboards which I don't think there are any of. Most of the AMD workstation motherboards are segmented to Threadripper or people using server boards for workstations unless you count creator boards.
I'm intrigued by the 3d V-cache parts - the ryzen versions only have one compute die with the extra cache, so if these offer a double serving of cache in AM5 it'll be a first. They might outperform the ryzen equivalents in games!
I’ll admit I’m confused by this. It seems the silicon could be identical to the Ryzen parts. Is this just extra qualification and warranty for the server-level features?
Biggest plus is official ECC UDIMM support. Previous to AM5 EPYC, the only way to get official ECC support was the Ryzen Pro CPUs (which, are nearly impossible to find on their own).
Give me 3 PCIe 4.0x16 lanes and I’d be happy. HBA, GPU for gaming VM, and GPU for transcoding. Or HBA 16i, HBA 8 or 16e, and GPU for transcoding. I’m a beginner at home lab stuff and most of it started from desire for media server and headless gaming machine so I can play on any screen in the house as that’s always changing of when/where I can play
FYI, the board in there is the B650D4U. Not the -2L2T or -2L2T/BCM. Retail boards can be updated with beta BIOS 10.18 (made publicly available yesterday) for EPYC 4004 support. Make sure you update to 4.09 + 5.02.00 BEFORE installing 10.18.
I think at 35W they lose a lot of efficiency. Keep in mind the current setup, the IO die takes around 20W in idle. So it would leave only 15W for the cores. I think with Zen 6, when the new packaging change happens, we will see lower wattage parts because there won't be so much uncore power
This is sooooooo great. Super happy to see AMD bring the EPYC line down to entry server tier. That ASROCK Rack system is soooo cool and excited to see what other venders come up with for this market.
This is great! I've been planning a new NAS build and was looking at AM4 for the lower wattage and maximum flexibility. Being able to get a baby Epyc with 6-8 cores at 65W would be great for my needs. I was considering an old Epyc or TR build but the potential power consumption was a huge turn off for me.
You don't need anything like that to run a nas. Slap a N100 and call it a day. AM4/AM5 is horrible at idle, unless it's a mobile based monolithic chip. E.g. 3000g. Plus the advertised 65w am4/am5 are actually 88w electrically.
@@igelbofh Thanks for the input. This has also been in consideration but I have mostly axed it due to the hoops and adapters you have to add in order to get the number of sata ports I want. Meanwhile on AMD I have a few mobo options with tons on onboard sata connectors. Reducing complexity is a bit higher on my priority list. The option to expand nvme storage and higher memory limits for a cache pool is also a bonus for me. We all have different things on our priority list.
Amazing :) I'm sysadmin on a small business and we're using a laptop as a server... I was thinking about proposing an old xeon server but I'll wait for these processors to be available. They're amazing :)
@@ask_carbon It comes down to price and availability. If there were plenty of such used EPYCs available in the future these might be cheaper than their used Ryzen counterparts. At least that's what convinced me to use used Xeons on X58 and X99 in the past that were providing a far better price/performance ratio than the client SKUs. But for this to work the server SKUs need to be compatible with the client motherboards.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I totally agree, I guess what I’d really like is an intermediate chipset platform between Ryzen X and Threadripper TRX but I’m sure AMD really doesn’t want or care to do that.
That's what I thought. The "wanna have"-factor of the Epyc-label is "PCIE in abundance". This is... well... a nice CPU line... but not what I expect when I read "Epyc".
A challenge: portable server (with proxmox). You've made HP 600 g9 a great option for a server. But i believe you can do WAAY better with some custom mini ITX mini pc. Small enough to fit easily in the backpack but strong enough to handle ... i don't know, a full Openshift cluster with 3 operators and few worker nodes? And offcourse things like router and storage.
Any idea if this thing could support internal storage other than M.2 I see SATA ports does it have internal mounts for hard drives? I have 4 x 20TB Reds that I would love to fit in to this thing.
So these only existing out of marketing. The only thing that really limits ECC on Ryzen is whether or not a Mobo manufacture chooses to fully implement it in a given board. So ASrock rack boards marketed as Server boards, would just have it implemented regardless of the existence of parts called Epyc. These seem to be exactly the same Ryzen CPUs just rebranded as Epyc.
Yeah. But AMD server FAEs now watch these parts, so if you're a big customer and you have problems then the AMD server team supports you instead of their client group. This lets them sell to a more enterprise focused customer base. But it's still ryzen 7000, there's nothing new here.
Will other AM5 mainboards support ECC? Will the X, B, or A series? The BIOS will have to be updated for the CPU but I for one really want to know. I want to use this for a NAS/VM server :)
ECC support has to be enabled in BIOS so unless the motherboard mentions ECC support it won't work. Asrock and Asus usually enable ECC but you need to check the spec sheet
It's a lower end part than any ryzen-branded AM5 part, those start at 6 cores (8300G seems to be vapourware so I'm ignoring it). Definitely a very interesting option!
This actually could make a really great and inexpensive dev workstation paired with something like AMD Instinct or a Single Nvidia Tesla / RTX A6000 for simple AI testing
At work, I built 2 servers for CAD/EDA work. These things can be pretty compute intensive, and at the same time take limited advantage of multi core. Since large cache size, and high single core performance are the most helpful, I have one ryzen 7950x3d system with 128G and another EPYC 9384X system with >500G, for whenever something needs a lot of ram. People really prefer the Ryzen system whenever possible, because it is just so noticeably quicker. If there was any way of getting more ram on the Ryzen, that's all I would buy for that kind of workload.
To be fair to Intel, recent desktop Core CPUs have server features. Intel ARK lists the 14900K as ECC-capable, the processor gets official RHEL certification, and boards like the X13SAE are certified for popular Linux distros. If your OS is happy with a P+E core processor, I don't see any reason to get an Xeon E2400 over a 13th Gen Core. AMD is launching a full lineup because unlike Intel, their desktop lineup is missing several features (ECC certification and SEV).
If this epyc lineup has rdna graphics still inside, it would be amazing to have a host driver for that gpu for like esxi or proxmox etc. to enable hardware 3d acceleration on VMs... I hope they will implement it...
What do you mean new It's a rebranded ryzen 7000 supported by their server FAE group with some additional software validation testing. It's ryzen 7000, it's been around a while.
I currently use Ryzen 9 5950X with 128 gig ECC RAM (Asrock motherboard) to run my ProxMox server. It's a great platform BUT it's limiting on the number of usable lanes for PCIe cards. I'll be looking into the second hand market on used Epyc ROME server CPU and motherboard to expand my ProxMox home lab. I also use Ryzen 9 5950X 128 gig non-ecc RAM to run my Linux Debian 12 workstation at home.
While I get the beauty of the server platform validation which might be a big plus for larger corporations, with a good selection of components, you could have gotten something with similar capabilities with going with Ryzen for some time now. Tinkerers like me don't really get much more value out of this release. At least not yet. This might change once these EPYCs are more widespread and might get cheaper on the second hand market than their Ryzen counterparts. If I could use these on consumer parts, that might provide some value later down the road.
Man, all of the better fits come out after I get 'done' upgrading other paths. I do really hope next gen ryzen gets some more lanes to work with, I know you run the risk of cannibalizing market sectors but it would be nice if I could use ryzen or these new ryzen-like EPYCs at least to get some extra connectivity in the future without having to go full threadripper/EPYC, obviously needs a new socket if they do but we can hope.
Would the 16 core Epyc 4665P draw 170w if given a 12 core 4464P (65w) workload on Linux? The mixed core thing that Intel has been doing says otherwise but I thought the fundamental result was race to finish so you can power down the core.
No it would not. Two things though. As you go the V/F curve, things get less efficient so usually same core lower wattage does well. Second, there are still a lot of 120W/U racks out there so a 65W TDP CPU fits but a 170W can incur overages.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Sienna only has Zen 4c cores, which clock a _lot_ lower. Having some standard Zen 4 cores on SP6 would have filled the gap between 9004 and 4004, as 8004 just doesn't do it.
I have to echo others' comments about PCIe lanes, although I'm mostly just baffled by the way the 24 available ones (outside the 4 for the chipset) get divided up. Why not two x8 slots plus a couple M.2 or x1 slots? Something to give greater flexibility GPU vs. storage vs. networking would be great. Also seems weird all the boards are apparently B650-based? I suppose the X670 would only give more USB, which is presumably less helpful for a server
we got the supermicro AM5 microcloud at work using ryzen 7900 and 7950x late last year and holy macaroni the per core performance is out of this world. I see supermicro just swapped out ryzen for epyc 4004 in the spec sheets for it now.
That's awesome news! I wonder if you could make side by side comparision new Epyc and Xeon performance/power consumption, how much difference is there. Thank you for your great job!
I wonder if it's possible to bifurcate the PCIe lanes. I have a couple of AI workloads that are (somehow) not as PCIe bandwidth bottlenecked as you would expect, so I could possibly get away with x4 connections on a huge number of GPUs, and this server would fit really well with my power consumption issues.
Advantek and Lenovo predate Ryzen ECC commercial work group and industrial server and workstation so around since Vermeer. Ryzen parts were being used by all the typical Asia Pacific ODMs for small office work group and for some time I get extension of 'Pro' as 'into' commercial / industrial . . . The fact is there are a ton of Raphael at run end and yes Epyc 4000 made sense. Raptor E channel available gained + 258% in the last month so this should be an easy virtual desktop and workstation group server race for AMD to win relying on a desktop part. mb
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 Odd interactions between hardware do happen and can cost a large amount of effort to identify and fix. Validated hardware combinations reduce the risk of such scenarios occurring.
I'd love to build an epyc home supercomputer but these nodes are too crippled with pcie/memory bandwidth don't forget need some infiniband or something for each node eating at least 8 probably 16 lanes too just not enough :(
STH and Phoenix "reviewed" the launch - to be fair with Siena it was easy to predict what the performance and power would look like. There is some testing in STH's motherboard reviews like this one: www.servethehome.com/giga-computing-gigabyte-me33-ar0-amd-epyc-8004-motherboard-review/2/
Honestly other than guaranteed ECC UDIMM support, i'm not very interested in 4004 The platform is great, that is an easy way to get guaranteed support for people who dont want to research what consumer boards work for their use case.(edit, i'll probably pick up a board for my 7950x to replace my x670E PG lightning) But for me to care about 4004 processors it needs to be more than just consumer cores in an enterprise motherboard. I'll give some examples of what i'd like to see from Epyc 4004 or 4005 There are ~370 extra pins over AM4 sure some of those are going to be for power, but most likely are for 'future expansion' so maybe these 4004 could have a different IO die option, and enterprise motherboards could add a 3rd channel of RAM These are being called Epyc, why not Zen4C for up to 32 cores. If they dont want to open pandora's box like Intel did with the first gen i7 LGA 1366 and subsequent people upset by the 2700k not having 3 channel, then maybe add another 8-16 PCIe lanes from those 370 pins. honestly i was surprised the 7940HX/8940HX/8700G dont support tripple channel, the iGPU is starved for bandwidth even at 8000 in 1:1 the 8700G seems starved, with notable improvements just going from DOCP 8000 to an OC of 8400
I guess the justification must be related to the cost of software vs hardware. I would prefer a product the complete opposite. Use a max package size Epyc, load it up with 24 or 32 core cpu, W series graphics, lots of cache, maybe even ram, and reduced pcie lane count, similar to TR. Now it is a larger area, easy to cool package, blender and video editing monster. System memory using a couple of M.2 and now no goofing around with a separate graphics card.
5:06 So, the only reason you can point to as to why one should use an EPYC instead of a Ryzen is the guaranteed support for ECC, nothing else? Well, that's underwhelming.
Does this part make any sense to put into a video or photo editing home build vs a normal ryzen or similar thread ripper? It looks like the base frequency might be higher than some of the non pro TRs. Thanks
I don't really understand the product. If the entry level server market was important to them, why not market the existing Ryzen processors as entry level server CPUs by validating them for all the server OS support and stuff. Now you have basically redundant SKUs. I don't see how that benefits anyone. The CPUs are great, because the Ryzen CPUs they're based on already are great CPUs. I think the concept is flawed, only having one product line would have been much more efficient. A separate product only makes sense if it's different from existing products and this isn't.
Hi, what's the name of the tool that displays package power? I bought a Ryzen Pro 7945 last year and I am very disappointed with idle power consumption. Mainboard, 1x140Fan, 1xNVMeSSD, 2x3.5HDD consume about 70-80W with this CPU at idle. You have similar results with these new Epics; although the chip only consumes 25W.
What a sweet sweet machine. This will give the opportunity for large bare metal server rental companies to offer massive performance for cheap !! Plus it would be excellent for a remote GPU server for remote gaming or AI (usually faster cores win over core count ) Exciting times Thanks Patrick from STH 😊
Sadly ASRock Rack only has MicroATX Boards for AM5. I am currently running an Asus B650 ProArt because it has ECC support and enough pcie slots, but it has a bug and is picky with memory. Is there anyone else than Asus that offers ATX and ECC for the AM5 platform ?
I love the irony of AMD calling it 4004 😂
It's as good now as the Intel 4004 was at the time
This is amazing for the homelab audience aswell. AMD really did a homerun with this one!
Yes. $149 starting is not bad at all.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Remember those prices are for 1k units. The individual price might be different. I would also try to figure out how much would the platform cost (cpu+mb+ram).
@@Braiam Ram you can more or less price out now and I'm guessing motherboards will be anywhere from a little to substantially less expensive than Seina boards which are around $700-$800 retail. If MB can be had for ~$500ish a fairly inexpensive server is probably very possible if you don't need more than 64gb memory.
@@nadtz Siena is a completely different beast. These new chips are AM5 socket, basically desktop + ECC.
@@concinnus I'm aware but if you wanted to guess at motherboard prices it's likely to be more than most consumer boards but less than a Siena board. Considering the B650D4U-2L2T is ~$500 I'd say I guessed about right.
Really wish they would have included extra PCI-E lanes. Something like a 4/8c chip with 48 or 64 PCI-E v5 lanes. There's not much out there for those of us wanting that kind of connectivity other than Ebay EPYC x002/x003 chips/boards.
threadripper?
That would mean another socket because AM5 is too small for that amount of lanes. For lower lane count theres also Bergamo and Threadripper.
More PCIe lanes, more RAM slots and M.2-22110 support (though that's on the MB and not the CPU). It really seems like full ECC is all the Ryzen-Epycs really add.
You mean, the effort of creating a motherboard where the manufacturer installs a pcie switch or another PCH to get more lanes? Ha ha ha, oh no. They aren't going to do that except in very special cases, very proprietary cases. Both AMD and Intel dictate implementation rules. They've been slowly taking away PCIe lanes and slots on consumer products, and they sequester remaining lanes in m.2 or add excessive 1GB NICs to tie them up. They want you buying the server or workstation platforms. Asrock Rack motherboards that have desktop processor sockets are practically no better than their desktop counterparts for this reason.
Yes,!
Ah typical, just when I ordered 48 more 7950x nodes. lol.
What's the advantage of those chips over 7950x tho
@@John-vm7fq Long driver support is one of them.
@@John-vm7fqreal/full ECC memory support.
i think its just a re-badge. RDIMM is not supported.
@@kaleidoscope_records_ binned for sustained performance, don't use 7950X at full boost all the time without negative offsets, they'll deteriorate in a few years; EPYC 4854 is safe to be used continuously at full boost with good cooling
Here I was hoping for an actual new product line like the introduction of something like “AM5+” with 32+4+4+4 PCIe lanes and 4 memory channels, silly me.
not yet
Takes me back to the Opteron days
I thought the same thing.
So excited for this, wish it had more PCIE lanes but this will be a nice upgrade for my Xeon v2 NAS once motherboards are available for the DIY market.
The cool thing is that the B650 Ryzen server motherboards have BIOS updates. We have already reviewed several of them
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Oh good point, forgot all about the ryzen server motherboards. Time to look at prices for those.
unless you need more PCIe lanes, 1st gen EPYC's on Ebay are a killer deal, i snagged a 7551p combo for ~800 with 128gb ECC ram and a Supermicro board.
Good point, but this is solid competition for that 7551P but with a newer CPU
a 16 core 7950x is faster than my old dual 18 core 2699v3 xeons for cinebench with more than double the single thread performance.
@@ServeTheHomeVideoI want to make a home server with a lot of pcie express lane sadly epyc 7002 to 7003 are still king with 128 pcie gen 4 lane.
The ipc is secondary for me.
Agreed, a big weakness of AM5 (and AM4) in general is the very limited total number of PCIe lanes, there is nothing you'd put in a low end server that needs PCIe 5.0, the vast majority of these budget use cases would much rather have 3+ times as many 3.0 lanes.
@@wewillrockyou1986 the problem with that is it will just push the motherboard cost up to the same as a threadripper or epyc, since you still have to route all those lanes, that means a lot of layers making it very expensive. they have low core count epyc for those use cases.
Wish we had more lanes / PLX chip and RDIMM support
The RDIMM support I mentioned because that would have been a big one
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Is RDIMM even possible if they wanted on this chipset?
@@ImDembe memcontroller is in the CPU. However, I'm unsure how the pinout/signaling differs.
@@LRK-GTI know the slots are physically different
@@AP_Labs Signalling is (and power) too.
My point was that I'm not sure 'Desktop Ryzen's IOD supports 80-bit DDR5 Registered ECC.
Server Epyc *only* supports Registered ECC.
Details are laid out in a ServeTheHome article titled
"Why DDR5 is Absolutely Necessary in Modern Servers"
Still kind of mixed feelings about this kind of platform for Homelab given current DDR5 UDIMM ECC prices. I bought 256GB of DDR4 3200 RDIMMs for $400, and and you're lucky to get 64GB of DDR5 for $300. Yikes. Really nice video Patrick this release has really caught me by surprise!
Yea. DDR5 pricing is still rough.
yeah that's why I'm not leaving DDR4 and AM4 for homelab
Not terrible, but it will get cheaper in a couple of years. I remember paying €200 for 16GB 3200mhz DDR4 non ECC in 2018
@@NineS5I remember paying $300 USD for 1MB in 1987. 😅
Let’s just hope they don’t remove features from future Desktop Ryzen CPUs to justify the Epyc Line.
Hopefully they won't. I think that would seriously hurt their sales.
$90 is a small price for the extra cores
I was wrong it is $93 more, but this is a rounding day since I did not think it made a huge difference $90 v $93 in the context of adding 8 more cores.
Still a small price
@@theracerofnightmare yea
Killing me with the 28 PCIE lanes. This would have been a no-brainer upgrade for my "budget" ML Workstation built on Ryzen, but not without at least 40 lanes, and I would prefer 48. Guess I'm back to waiting for used Threadripper prices to drop.
This is still an AM5 socket so they don't have the pins for anything more than AM5 already supports, sadly
@@marcogenovesi8570 Fair point, hadn't thought of that. That aside, I wish at least one firm would make consumer-grade components with at least workstation-grade PCIE lane counts. Threadripper can add a zero to your total cost, which is insane just for PCIE bandwidth.
It also can't address enough memory for many ML workloads.
ECC support is good, but missed the mark on PCIe lanes. With PCIe based storage, high speed NICs, and maybe a GPU for encoding or ML models, PCIe lanes are necessary and lacking :( So close!
AM5 socket limitation. Only way to work around that are PCIe switches (dedicated, or integral to a new generation of chipset)
You talked about the 4004 series processor supporting only UDIMM ECC memory. What are your thoughts on using it in a TrueNAS Storage Appliance for home use / small business? Is RDIMM more desirable for TrueNAS?
Unless it is a huge server, UDIMM is fine. Most people overbuy NAS CPUs by a factor of 10x or more in terms of CPU performance.
I do not see this changing anything for those of us using their home servers for BlueIris video encoding and/or Plex video decoding I still do not see a AMD solution to Intel Quicksync.
AMD really needs to invest into their iGPU development tools in/for Plex, BlueIris, Handbrake, etc.
Could I use AMD and just horsepower through with cores? yes. But the power usage compared to using Quicksync to accomplish the same quality cannot be ignored.
At least this has the iGPU from the desktop Ryzen 7000 series. Not all Xeon E-2400 have the iGPU. But agreed that QS is still the standard
For detection on Frigate it'll be interesting to see what the NPU can do.
Just grabbed a couple of the 1U version of that chassis for redundant 25GbE firewalls.
Sweet!!!
Do you have a part number for the larger CPU cooler? That thing looks absolutely wild, I'd be interested to see what people in the SFF community could build using that with thin ITX builds!
That thing is a modder's dream, for sure.
I doubt it's a good idea, it's made for use with server fans, nobody in their right mind sit beside multiple fans doing 5 to 10k rpm.
I think it sounds like you bit your tongue before the in studio shots or else I'm going insane 😂
Cool box though, it'd be great for some basic Ai stuff too.
I wish there were some atx motherboard options for workstation users. This would be a great upgrade to my old Xeon e3 system.
I wouldn't be surprised if Asus/Supermicro/Asrock Rack have something out soon.
These are rebranded ryzen 7000 CPUs. There's already plenty of ATX ryzen 7000 motherboards.
@@noname-gp6hk There are plenty of Ryzen 7000 motherboards but he asked about workstation motherboards which I don't think there are any of. Most of the AMD workstation motherboards are segmented to Threadripper or people using server boards for workstations unless you count creator boards.
Asus pro art isn't a "workstation" motherboard?
@@Kajukota that's why I phrased like that.
Patrick’s enthusiasm is infectious
I'm intrigued by the 3d V-cache parts - the ryzen versions only have one compute die with the extra cache, so if these offer a double serving of cache in AM5 it'll be a first. They might outperform the ryzen equivalents in games!
I wish that motherboard came in a ATX size as well. I could really use the extra pci-e lan
4004 not found
Super!
neat....definitely looking forward to the offerings from other vendors as well 🤔
I’ll admit I’m confused by this. It seems the silicon could be identical to the Ryzen parts. Is this just extra qualification and warranty for the server-level features?
Biggest plus is official ECC UDIMM support. Previous to AM5 EPYC, the only way to get official ECC support was the Ryzen Pro CPUs
(which, are nearly impossible to find on their own).
Yeah, it's mostly qualification/validation for features, server&enterprise feature support, and ECC UDIMMs.
Give me 3 PCIe 4.0x16 lanes and I’d be happy.
HBA, GPU for gaming VM, and GPU for transcoding.
Or HBA 16i, HBA 8 or 16e, and GPU for transcoding.
I’m a beginner at home lab stuff and most of it started from desire for media server and headless gaming machine so I can play on any screen in the house as that’s always changing of when/where I can play
FYI, the board in there is the B650D4U. Not the -2L2T or -2L2T/BCM. Retail boards can be updated with beta BIOS 10.18 (made publicly available yesterday) for EPYC 4004 support. Make sure you update to 4.09 + 5.02.00 BEFORE installing 10.18.
Yes lovely! But where is the 4 or 6 core 35W models??! Ill take a bit less frequency
I think at 35W they lose a lot of efficiency. Keep in mind the current setup, the IO die takes around 20W in idle. So it would leave only 15W for the cores. I think with Zen 6, when the new packaging change happens, we will see lower wattage parts because there won't be so much uncore power
Imagine if AMD made a dual socket board for these Epyc chips!
It would not work since these do not have socket to socket interconnect. :-/
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Very sad :(
So, is the primary difference just the qualification vs a Ryzen processor? I had to watch this in pieces, so maybe you covered it.
Yup it is just the extra qualifications.
@ApplePotato I guess that makes it more official than a server board running a Ryzen chip. I run an AM4 asrock rack server...but that it at my house.
This is sooooooo great. Super happy to see AMD bring the EPYC line down to entry server tier. That ASROCK Rack system is soooo cool and excited to see what other venders come up with for this market.
Agreed
Is that CPU-cooling solution available for other systems? Looks interesting :)
Im still amazed at the idea of 5.7ghz in a server chassis.
This is great! I've been planning a new NAS build and was looking at AM4 for the lower wattage and maximum flexibility. Being able to get a baby Epyc with 6-8 cores at 65W would be great for my needs. I was considering an old Epyc or TR build but the potential power consumption was a huge turn off for me.
You don't need anything like that to run a nas. Slap a N100 and call it a day. AM4/AM5 is horrible at idle, unless it's a mobile based monolithic chip. E.g. 3000g. Plus the advertised 65w am4/am5 are actually 88w electrically.
@@igelbofh Thanks for the input. This has also been in consideration but I have mostly axed it due to the hoops and adapters you have to add in order to get the number of sata ports I want. Meanwhile on AMD I have a few mobo options with tons on onboard sata connectors. Reducing complexity is a bit higher on my priority list. The option to expand nvme storage and higher memory limits for a cache pool is also a bonus for me. We all have different things on our priority list.
I want this for my next desktop build. I built my desk out of two server racks. And this would be an awesome new desktop upgrade for me.
Amazing :) I'm sysadmin on a small business and we're using a laptop as a server... I was thinking about proposing an old xeon server but I'll wait for these processors to be available. They're amazing :)
The first dedicated server I administered was a laptop :)
Are you able to run them on a consumer B650/A620 and get them in retail?
So far, we have only used them in the server B650 platforms.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thx for the Info! Hmm would be nice if I could buy them for my home server.
@@interceptor001Honestly why Epyc 4004 instead of Ryzen 7000 when you are using a consumer platform/board?
@@ServeTheHomeVideo can you test it in asrock's X600 board?
@@ask_carbon It comes down to price and availability. If there were plenty of such used EPYCs available in the future these might be cheaper than their used Ryzen counterparts. At least that's what convinced me to use used Xeons on X58 and X99 in the past that were providing a far better price/performance ratio than the client SKUs. But for this to work the server SKUs need to be compatible with the client motherboards.
Extra PCIe lanes would have made this killer
Agreed, but that is hard to do when you have limited package size and pins on the bottom.
yea but not possible on current AM5 socket/platform
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I totally agree, I guess what I’d really like is an intermediate chipset platform between Ryzen X and Threadripper TRX but I’m sure AMD really doesn’t want or care to do that.
Yeah but these are PCI-E 5 right, Get a MB with a PCI-e down step, unless you need the bandwidth, if so buy a proper server...
That's what I thought. The "wanna have"-factor of the Epyc-label is "PCIE in abundance".
This is... well... a nice CPU line... but not what I expect when I read "Epyc".
A challenge: portable server (with proxmox). You've made HP 600 g9 a great option for a server. But i believe you can do WAAY better with some custom mini ITX mini pc. Small enough to fit easily in the backpack but strong enough to handle ... i don't know, a full Openshift cluster with 3 operators and few worker nodes? And offcourse things like router and storage.
Any idea if this thing could support internal storage other than M.2 I see SATA ports does it have internal mounts for hard drives? I have 4 x 20TB Reds that I would love to fit in to this thing.
So these only existing out of marketing. The only thing that really limits ECC on Ryzen is whether or not a Mobo manufacture chooses to fully implement it in a given board. So ASrock rack boards marketed as Server boards, would just have it implemented regardless of the existence of parts called Epyc. These seem to be exactly the same Ryzen CPUs just rebranded as Epyc.
Yeah. But AMD server FAEs now watch these parts, so if you're a big customer and you have problems then the AMD server team supports you instead of their client group. This lets them sell to a more enterprise focused customer base. But it's still ryzen 7000, there's nothing new here.
Will other AM5 mainboards support ECC? Will the X, B, or A series? The BIOS will have to be updated for the CPU but I for one really want to know. I want to use this for a NAS/VM server :)
The AGESA code is the same and these 'new' CPUs will boot on any AM5 board
ECC support has to be enabled in BIOS so unless the motherboard mentions ECC support it won't work. Asrock and Asus usually enable ECC but you need to check the spec sheet
TLDR .. so its just a ryzen re-badge with the addition of a 4 core version
With guaranteed ECC support, whereas on consumer Ryzen boards it’s maybe kinda sort of.
Cool, now let's wait 5y+ to this to come down in price so i can pick one up on ebay for my homelab :D
One fiddy for the lowest tier? Am I imagining or is that cheaper than cheapest Zen 4 Ryzen?
It's a lower end part than any ryzen-branded AM5 part, those start at 6 cores (8300G seems to be vapourware so I'm ignoring it). Definitely a very interesting option!
Looking forward to some small non-rack builds
This actually could make a really great and inexpensive dev workstation paired with something like AMD Instinct or a Single Nvidia Tesla / RTX A6000 for simple AI testing
Only the "X" models have 3d v-cache?
Yes
At work, I built 2 servers for CAD/EDA work. These things can be pretty compute intensive, and at the same time take limited advantage of multi core.
Since large cache size, and high single core performance are the most helpful, I have one ryzen 7950x3d system with 128G and another EPYC 9384X system with >500G, for whenever something needs a lot of ram.
People really prefer the Ryzen system whenever possible, because it is just so noticeably quicker.
If there was any way of getting more ram on the Ryzen, that's all I would buy for that kind of workload.
You can build the 7950x3d up to 192gb RAM :)
I believe you crave the threadripper. It is a mini epyc in terms of IO and mem channels, but has much higher clock speeds.
I want Wendell to do the "Forbidden Server" with this platform!
@Level1Techs
To be fair to Intel, recent desktop Core CPUs have server features. Intel ARK lists the 14900K as ECC-capable, the processor gets official RHEL certification, and boards like the X13SAE are certified for popular Linux distros.
If your OS is happy with a P+E core processor, I don't see any reason to get an Xeon E2400 over a 13th Gen Core.
AMD is launching a full lineup because unlike Intel, their desktop lineup is missing several features (ECC certification and SEV).
Does the 3d v cache parts have the extra cache on both CCD or just on one CCD like the 7950x3d?
They are essentially rebranded 7950X3D/7900X3D CPUs, so just on one.
@@c0nd3mnd22 binned actually
If this epyc lineup has rdna graphics still inside, it would be amazing to have a host driver for that gpu for like esxi or proxmox etc. to enable hardware 3d acceleration on VMs... I hope they will implement it...
What do you mean new
It's a rebranded ryzen 7000 supported by their server FAE group with some additional software validation testing. It's ryzen 7000, it's been around a while.
epyc uses the same CPU chiplets anyway so Ryzens have always been the same thing
Where is the link to the thing that suppose to be in the video description?
The DDR5 RDIMM/UDIMM article or smth?
Just before timestamps th-cam.com/video/CG5ontMa8kw/w-d-xo.html
with no onboard SAS support, the comparison is the cheaper W680 stuff, not C266 etc.
I currently use Ryzen 9 5950X with 128 gig ECC RAM (Asrock motherboard) to run my ProxMox server. It's a great platform BUT it's limiting on the number of usable lanes for PCIe cards. I'll be looking into the second hand market on used Epyc ROME server CPU and motherboard to expand my ProxMox home lab. I also use Ryzen 9 5950X 128 gig non-ecc RAM to run my Linux Debian 12 workstation at home.
PCIe lanes are a challenge
While I get the beauty of the server platform validation which might be a big plus for larger corporations, with a good selection of components, you could have gotten something with similar capabilities with going with Ryzen for some time now. Tinkerers like me don't really get much more value out of this release. At least not yet. This might change once these EPYCs are more widespread and might get cheaper on the second hand market than their Ryzen counterparts. If I could use these on consumer parts, that might provide some value later down the road.
Oof only 2 channels of DD5 not saying memory bandwidth these days is everything but in the long run it's everything
Man, all of the better fits come out after I get 'done' upgrading other paths. I do really hope next gen ryzen gets some more lanes to work with, I know you run the risk of cannibalizing market sectors but it would be nice if I could use ryzen or these new ryzen-like EPYCs at least to get some extra connectivity in the future without having to go full threadripper/EPYC, obviously needs a new socket if they do but we can hope.
Would the 16 core Epyc 4665P draw 170w if given a 12 core 4464P (65w) workload on Linux? The mixed core thing that Intel has been doing says otherwise but I thought the fundamental result was race to finish so you can power down the core.
No it would not. Two things though. As you go the V/F curve, things get less efficient so usually same core lower wattage does well. Second, there are still a lot of 120W/U racks out there so a 65W TDP CPU fits but a 170W can incur overages.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I double dare challenge you to do that test if you have a chance.
Such a shame they didn't give them more than 2 channels for RAM. A "low end"-"high end" high memory bandwidth solution is needed by many.
I think Siena fills that void
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Sienna only has Zen 4c cores, which clock a _lot_ lower. Having some standard Zen 4 cores on SP6 would have filled the gap between 9004 and 4004, as 8004 just doesn't do it.
I have to echo others' comments about PCIe lanes, although I'm mostly just baffled by the way the 24 available ones (outside the 4 for the chipset) get divided up. Why not two x8 slots plus a couple M.2 or x1 slots? Something to give greater flexibility GPU vs. storage vs. networking would be great. Also seems weird all the boards are apparently B650-based? I suppose the X670 would only give more USB, which is presumably less helpful for a server
If they added RDIMM support. We would have AMD Socket C32 again but now with good cores.😊
Wonder how reliable those Great Wall power supplies are....
Pretty reliable. They are used by a number of OEMs
we got the supermicro AM5 microcloud at work using ryzen 7900 and 7950x late last year and holy macaroni the per core performance is out of this world. I see supermicro just swapped out ryzen for epyc 4004 in the spec sheets for it now.
That's awesome news! I wonder if you could make side by side comparision new Epyc and Xeon performance/power consumption, how much difference is there. Thank you for your great job!
I wonder if it's possible to bifurcate the PCIe lanes. I have a couple of AI workloads that are (somehow) not as PCIe bandwidth bottlenecked as you would expect, so I could possibly get away with x4 connections on a huge number of GPUs, and this server would fit really well with my power consumption issues.
Advantek and Lenovo predate Ryzen ECC commercial work group and industrial server and workstation so around since Vermeer. Ryzen parts were being used by all the typical Asia Pacific ODMs for small office work group and for some time I get extension of 'Pro' as 'into' commercial / industrial . . . The fact is there are a ton of Raphael at run end and yes Epyc 4000 made sense. Raptor E channel available gained + 258% in the last month so this should be an easy virtual desktop and workstation group server race for AMD to win relying on a desktop part. mb
4:50: so basically because of officially supported ECC.
Yes. Also things like 25GbE NICs are not often validated against Ryzen CPUs
WHY would standard NICs have to be specifically be “validated” against a specific CPU SKU?
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 Odd interactions between hardware do happen and can cost a large amount of effort to identify and fix. Validated hardware combinations reduce the risk of such scenarios occurring.
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 Recall AMD's USB 'issues'? Imagine that, with some NICs.
To this day, I'm convinced the USB issues were EMI/EMC related.
I'd love to build an epyc home supercomputer but these nodes are too crippled with pcie/memory bandwidth don't forget need some infiniband or something for each node eating at least 8 probably 16 lanes too just not enough :(
Like damn I still love the 7443P $1000 for 24 cores and 128 lanes of pcie4 is a sweet spot I bet another year or so they'll be flooding ebay :D :D
Did I miss how much the asrock rack chassis is?
Would love if they could go back to AM4 and do the same thing.
Is there Siena review somewhere? Did I miss it?
That is great however for really "cheap" servers that don't use old parts. So yes, very good move AMD.
STH and Phoenix "reviewed" the launch - to be fair with Siena it was easy to predict what the performance and power would look like.
There is some testing in STH's motherboard reviews like this one: www.servethehome.com/giga-computing-gigabyte-me33-ar0-amd-epyc-8004-motherboard-review/2/
This makes me miss my Opteron 185
Next Gen, we might be able to see a Zen5c x 2CCD (32 cores) or a Zen5+Zen5c (24 cores) on AM5 socket.
What’s the use case here? A 2U rack mount server with no drive bays just seems odd.
Why? M.2 for storage and can cool both high end active GPUs like the RTX 6000 Ada and A6000 we showed or even passive GPUs
Yeah but only two M.2 slots? Again I’m just trying to figure out who this is for.
Honestly other than guaranteed ECC UDIMM support, i'm not very interested in 4004
The platform is great, that is an easy way to get guaranteed support for people who dont want to research what consumer boards work for their use case.(edit, i'll probably pick up a board for my 7950x to replace my x670E PG lightning)
But for me to care about 4004 processors it needs to be more than just consumer cores in an enterprise motherboard.
I'll give some examples of what i'd like to see from Epyc 4004 or 4005
There are ~370 extra pins over AM4 sure some of those are going to be for power, but most likely are for 'future expansion' so maybe these 4004 could have a different IO die option, and enterprise motherboards could add a 3rd channel of RAM
These are being called Epyc, why not Zen4C for up to 32 cores.
If they dont want to open pandora's box like Intel did with the first gen i7 LGA 1366 and subsequent people upset by the 2700k not having 3 channel, then maybe add another 8-16 PCIe lanes from those 370 pins.
honestly i was surprised the 7940HX/8940HX/8700G dont support tripple channel, the iGPU is starved for bandwidth even at 8000 in 1:1 the 8700G seems starved, with notable improvements just going from DOCP 8000 to an OC of 8400
So, what's the real performance?
2-3 times the power draw for an extra 4 cores is pretty hard to swallow.
Cant see many reasons to consider this cpu
This processor would be good for NAS use.
Try these in games please the 4 and 6 core ones would be dope to see in game test on new and older games.
All feature same with 7950X even ECC memory. Why more price by EPIC 4004 not 7950X?
because EPYC is binned for that, Ryzen 9 is binned for peak performance
i have been on the xeon server grind,🤓 but even modern mini pc out preforms most of them . i like this configuration
I guess the justification must be related to the cost of software vs hardware.
I would prefer a product the complete opposite. Use a max package size Epyc, load it up with 24 or 32 core cpu, W series graphics, lots of cache, maybe even ram, and reduced pcie lane count, similar to TR.
Now it is a larger area, easy to cool package, blender and video editing monster.
System memory using a couple of M.2 and now no goofing around with a separate graphics card.
5:06 So, the only reason you can point to as to why one should use an EPYC instead of a Ryzen is the guaranteed support for ECC, nothing else? Well, that's underwhelming.
I want a cheap Ryzen x900g which will fit on a EPYC motherboard , I want the extra lines , 20 lines is very limiting for a home lab set up.
So they did end up making a zen 4 based ryzen 3 but just in disguise as an epyc chip
Will one of them low profile Noctua NH what-are-the-numbers horizontal fan coolers fit on there?
Does this part make any sense to put into a video or photo editing home build vs a normal ryzen or similar thread ripper? It looks like the base frequency might be higher than some of the non pro TRs. Thanks
I don't really understand the product. If the entry level server market was important to them, why not market the existing Ryzen processors as entry level server CPUs by validating them for all the server OS support and stuff. Now you have basically redundant SKUs. I don't see how that benefits anyone. The CPUs are great, because the Ryzen CPUs they're based on already are great CPUs. I think the concept is flawed, only having one product line would have been much more efficient. A separate product only makes sense if it's different from existing products and this isn't.
It was definitely a marketing decision rather than a technical one
All the AM5 gaming folks gonna wonder...how well van it game!😂
Yea
Hi, what's the name of the tool that displays package power? I bought a Ryzen Pro 7945 last year and I am very disappointed with idle power consumption. Mainboard, 1x140Fan, 1xNVMeSSD, 2x3.5HDD consume about 70-80W with this CPU at idle. You have similar results with these new Epics; although the chip only consumes 25W.
Do they glue the CPU heatsink mounting backplate to the back of the board like previous AsRock Rack Ryzen boards?
What a sweet sweet machine. This will give the opportunity for large bare metal server rental companies to offer massive performance for cheap !!
Plus it would be excellent for a remote GPU server for remote gaming or AI (usually faster cores win over core count )
Exciting times
Thanks Patrick from STH 😊
Exactly.
Wish there was some real comparisons on why going the EYPC CPU vs plain Ryzen..... Comparing it to Intel doesn't really help...
Sadly ASRock Rack only has MicroATX Boards for AM5. I am currently running an Asus B650 ProArt because it has ECC support and enough pcie slots, but it has a bug and is picky with memory.
Is there anyone else than Asus that offers ATX and ECC for the AM5 platform ?
Not 100% sure, but Gigabyte has some AM5 serverboard options, IIRC.
just wondering if any personal motherboard with AM5 can support this new AMD EPYC 4004 series?