I teach (amongst other things) physics for a living. There are so many claims in that campaign that conflicts with everything I teach. I therefore took the liberty to report the campaign to Kickstarter, as I can only see it as a scam. It is quite obvious to me that ether Kickstarter wants their cut of the money no matter what or they have not looked into all the comments that hammers their claims. I still call Bulls**t. Here is their reply: Hi there, Thank you for bringing this project to our attention: Project: SOLUS - The Most Efficient Radiator In The World Report date: March 2, 2019, 8:17 AM EST Report content: The product creator’s delivers a lot of very nice claims og their panel being much better than other conventional panels. I call bullshit. I teach physics for a living and it is very clear to me, tha... We’ve investigated and determined that it doesn’t violate our rules or community guidelines. If you believe there is an issue that’s not covered by our rules or guidelines, please contact us with more details. If you haven’t already, you can also communicate directly with the project creator. While we won’t be taking action on this project at this time, we value your input. We rely on reports like yours to ensure the safety and integrity of Kickstarter for everyone. Thanks again for looking out for the Kickstarter community. Best, Kickstarter Trust & Safety
I've also reported them on Kickstarter and got a much better response (probably because of the number of reports they are getting), although it is still unclear what they will do. "We’ve investigated it and taken action. While we can’t provide specific details, our actions may include-but aren’t limited to-suspending projects, individual accounts, or payment to creators. Please know that not all investigations result in these actions, and that actions taken may not be visible to the Kickstarter community."
I, too, received the pitiful reply from Kickstarter on 4th March 2019 after I reported the matter: "We’ve investigated and determined that it doesn’t violate our rules or community guidelines.". Perhaps Kickstarter can explain how it breaks the laws of physics. Or perhaps they finally did bother to look into the matter properly.....
When you heat a gas you could think of it as idealised hardballs bumping into eachother, but still there is heat generated so some type of "friction?", by oscillating kinetics must take place because the oscillation finally peter out regardless thermal insulation, or would they forever bump around and keep "heat?" using a perfect insulator? I mean why do they lose speed "heat due to kinetics?" in an open space is it just that the perimeter of the atoms/molecules tries to even out the pressure spreading to a bigger area. If that was the case a fan would not matter for the total healt in a room reached, finally it would spread out even? But it does so probably the heat stay local or raise to the ceiling instead of heating the room? That makes one wonder what goes on in a solid are the attached molecules also considered to be idealised perfect hardballs "elastic collisions?", or are their oscillation more like rigid body kinetics in a single mesh? I mean different materials hold heat better? Why does a saline solution in water trap the heat longer then water without the salt?
Lets hope they do not readjust the frequensy of the 3G / 5G net to produce heat in water, because i suspect that would be some aspect of what wavelength used, and really problemetic it become if they use nanosilver in our food supplies that penetrate the cellmembranes and they get into selfoscillation at a certain frequnsy in water. Then we do have a bloody armageddon upon our hands. Have you read about howto heat water with nanoparticles? That is by the way how both directed energy weapons work and cause effects upon us, where our cellmembranes explode and cause hemorrhagic fever well not the viral one if there is such. phys.org/news/2016-06-high-efficient-solar-nanoparticles.html
@@HugSeal42 I say it is not driven by induction heat it work on military technology principles by setting the medium into oscillation like directed energy principles. You emit waves at the frequensy where the medium selfoscillate.
@@HugSeal42 And this also same principles not same frequensy. ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon.html
NOTE: I plan to do a proper tutorial and explain space (room) heating in detail and the different types and effects of heat transfer and losses. Hoping to do this on Monday. UPDATE: They claim in the KS comments that they have been already producing 2000 units a month, and they have admitted in the comments and updates that they are *only now* doing actual room tests!
Can you do an investigation about those concrete blocks crane towers to store energy. We had so much discussion about it, w'r not getting out of it. ;)
When you do - remember MOST radiant heaters have glass faces to allow them to heat up to where they emit IR and prevent the restive element oxidising. Think halogen and ass you said glass bar heaters. This is laid out like a non forced convective heater (there are heaps of flat panel heaters like it already with metal faces) but is supposed to somehow radiate IR, using 200W to heat that entire area.
My current heater is lion-repellent. Since installing it, I haven't found any lions at all, not even hiding behind the sofa. Missed opportunity, by SOLUS, I'm surprised they didn't include this feature.
I think we have the same model heater and I absolutely love it... not only does it repel lions, it also repels bear! Not one bear has set foot in my home since purchasing it! Best lion and bear repellent heater I have ever purchased!
Some heaters are better at heating a given space than others. Yes, they're all 97+% efficient at converting electricity to heat, but that doesn't mean they're worth a d**n getting that heat throughout a room. The parabolic heater I have will cook you if you stand in front of it, but does a poor job heating the entire room. Alone it'll hold the room about 68F; with a fan moving the air in the room, the room will be over 80F. The number you want is the efficiency of _heat transfer._
@@jfbeam Except they're also 100% efficient at transferring heat. You're talking about an IR heater that blasts you with LWIR and MWIR light, which heats *you* up directly.
Project was suspended by Kickstarter Edit: Coming from Geneva Switzerland and knowing a lot about the companies in the region (as I lived in the industrial zone), this company is not registered in Geneva at all. Company is registered in some tiny village with a total population of around 1300 people in the canton of Vaud which is near Geneva but simply isn't. Looking into the founder, he specializes in marketing within the aviation industry mostly (lounges and what-not) and seems to be on of those 'cousin of a cousin' type of person who is not at all qualified to do X or Y but will get the contract through connections (this is literally killing the Swiss economy btw because competent companies go bankrupt)
Years ago I think it was back in the late 1960's A BBC program "Tomorrows World" in the UK demonstrated a system to heat your house using a special chemical that was painted on 2 opposite walls and for decrative purposes could be wallpapered or painted over. The unit was powered from a 12 volt car battery and used so little power to run that the battery would last all year without needing to be re-charged. The technology that made this possible was described as being based on an electrolytic capacitor, and rather than heating the volume of air in the room it produced a heat field around the occupants or items within the electric field. They were swamped with enquiries recieved from interested potential customers who hadn't realised that the program was broadcast on 1st April. Maybe this could feature as the latest Kickstarter scam next month!!!
What you are describing is possible, only not sure you want to do it. If you change the polarity of the electric field water molecules heat up because they keep having to realign with the field. This is what also happens in a microwave oven, look it up. So they don't heat the air around people, they heat the people themselves. Like putting them in the microwave. I'm sure it works but I don't think it's a good idea.
You can do this now! -- Mix your own Pluto-Paint: For a 1500 watt room heater you just need to add about 2.7 Kg of finely ground Plutonium-238 to your favorite paint. There may be some physiological ramifications.
Dave is 100% correct that *all* resistive heaters are 100% efficient -- but it seems he's a little confused between radiation and convection. The correct type of glass will have little effect on radiant heat transfer but will be quite a good insulator to impede the flow of convective heat transfer. This device is definitely a snake-oil heater though.
Yeah, the glass may not conduct heat well, but it can and does radiate it just fine. It also acts as a thermal mass to reduce cycling, but yeah, it is no more efficient then any other radiator.
There are two types of convection in this instance (three actually). 1) Natural convection caused by the radiated heat rising and forming convection currents in the room 2) Natural "Convection heaters" which have the air circulate inside and around the elements and then rise outward (you are right, as I mentioned in the video, the Sonus can't do this because it's sealed and the glass is an insulator) 3) Forced convection heaters which are the same as #2 but use fan to force circulate air around the room. You can also use a ceiling fan to do similar.
The insulative glass will initially be quite poor at radiating the heat from the element, but will improve with time. No heat is lost of course, it eventually gets out.
Some of the power is also radiated as infrared light instead of thermal motion. That infrared power output rises with temperature to the power of 4. Infrared heaters or heat lamps are a real product and usually have working temperatures above 1000°C. This product doesn't look like that at all though. Otherwise, they would show off that nice red glow and have to admit that it's a serious fire hazard in that form factor.
@@BenjaminGoose doesn't graphene get it's conductive properties from being in a single 2D lattice? I feel like mixing it in a paste would offset and overlap lattices and it would basically just be a graphite paste which does have its own properties, but it ain't graphene.
I don't know, I'm still partial to the old 500W halogen lamps ... light and heat at the same time. Bonus, you know a head of time your electric bill was going to be high.
I've already got a very cheap 100% efficient radiant heater in my kitchen. It works nicely at a distance when there's no toast to block the IR heat radiation.
:) that is a large 3D printer heated bed. A bit sad people are not more educated. And how they got over the Kickstarter review (I guess they only care about money not that uneducated people getting scammed).
It's in Kickstarter's interest to have as many successfully funded projects as possible so the main deciding factor of whether they'll let in a project or not is how likely successful will it be in generating hype and whether the commission they get from the project is worth the potential backslash (if it's a snake-oil project). This one ticks all the right boxes when it comes to Kickstarter, they would love to have as many projects as this as possible.
Stupid people make many people rich. Always have, always will. But a good video can always bend physics. Lest, they get some consensus of scientific opinions, then it must be a fact. Is there a chance that nano technologies could increase the radiation efficiency? Absolutely. But does that change the electrical efficiency? Obviously not. Great video. Green energy always equals real green $$$ in someone's pocket.
Whenever my heated bed goes on I can feel my meter spinning like crazy and my bank account slowly draining. In long prints (10h) the room the printer is in actually gets warm.(I have a mains powered heated bed) The problem is here in Cyprus we have the most expensive electricity throughout EU.
It is the same for most crowdfunding projects - they need crowdfunding cause any normal investor will first check if their claims are even possible and then decline the obvious scams.
@@Kalidor99 oh you have got to be kidding me. That is just so unreal to me that they are continuing their dishonest campaign. If they continue to say their radiator is 95% more efficient than 100% efficient radiators, they deserve the additional blight on their name when it does get suspended, and it will.
The cheap radiator have two lights on it, and the light can travel outside the home, and lose the energi. The Solus have no lights, so technically its more efficient.
Thermodynamics was the FIRST THING that came to mind before I finished the video and I saw Dave brought up the AWFUL tempered glass conducting properties.
actually this heater is 500,000% efficient, the way it accomplishes that is it contains 5kg of mixture of plutonium dioxide and plutonium 238, which allows it to produce 2kW of heat energy with a half-life of 87.7 years, it's an exciting new method to heat your room and an exciting crowdsourced community of radiation poisoned people
Woah this heater is amazing! Let's use it for the greater good: Get an array of Solus heaters to boil water, use the steam to power a turbine-generator, use the electricity to power the heaters! Since modern power plants can get 50% efficiency there is easily some electricity leftover to power your house. Bonus: you can use the waste heat from the condensers to heat your house!!!! I'd better start a crowdfunding to save the planet!
@@matsv201 that is a very small amount, but still the equivalent of having more than two of these heaters per room. Just out of curiosity, what are the temperature extremes where you are located?
@@mdrew44628 Yea i would need to have two of the larger in the larger rooms... and in the bathroom i probobly would be able to go with just one of the smaller... but its not quite true. I live in the center of Sweden Inland from Stockholm. Normally the temperatures is between -10C and 0 in the winter. Sometimes its -30C. There is a bit of a caveat, making this not quite applicable. To the benefit of the system i have. It uses a 1500 liter reservat tank. This even out the power usage between night and day. I also use inteligente thermostats. At might and weekdays before non kitchen drops down to 8C (also saving power on the refrigerator). The childrens bedroom drop down to 12C when they are in school, and the master bedroom drops down to 12C until 7PM.... Well, that is, the thermostat drop down, the room temperature rarely do. Also the heated garage is set on 10 degree all day. On week ends the heating is for most part on full tilt all day. The bath rooms is on 25C all day every day To the "decerment" of my system. It also heats water. This do use a bit of power, specially with a 300liter tub. Of cause, the electric heating is only "lazy" heating. I have a secondary heater. A 14kW wood stove that i have to use if the temperature drops down to lower than -10. But i usualy run it every second day or so during the winter. But i can run the house with out it, no problem. Just that wood is cheaper than electric power. I also have a tertiary heating system. 4.8kW solar power. This is brand new, and i just used it for last 6 month. This system pretty much give 0 power during December and January. Ut just never get sufficiently hot to circulate the water. But during the second half of February it really helps a lot. I bought the solar panels so i wouldn´t need to run the electricity during the summer., The thing is over here. While the electric power is dirt cheap during the summer (about 2-4c/kWh), the transfer cost is really quite high (almost a euro). I calculated that i would have the solar heater payed back with in 8 years only for the 6 month during the warm part of the year.
@@redsquirrelftw Or make it psychedelically warmer: Give the people in front of it some acid to intensify the illusion. :-) There was an experience on a festival sometime ago when somebody was sitting in front a bunch of red candles and behind him there was a burning garden torch, making sounds of a fire. It took the person some time to realize, that there was NO campfire. :-)
Not only is glass a poor thermal conductor, it blocks mid-band infrared (thermal infared). That's why it's used in greenhouses, because it prevents radiant heat from escaping.
@@Paradiesgestalter Watts are a unit of power, or energy over time. One watt is one joule per second. So power is to energy as speed is to distance. "watt per second" describes a change in power, just like acceleration describes a change in speed. Taken literally, it means that the device would be consuming 180 watts after an hour, 360 watts after two hours, and so forth! Obviously, they meant to say "watts" not "watts per hour"..but didn't, whoopsie.
@@Paradiesgestalter - TBH, it's not just these scammers who make this error. Only, in their case it's most embarrassing because it's supposed to be their expertise. Wh means Watt-hours, though you will more often read kWh, for kWh. (1 kWh = 1000 Wh). It's a measure of energy, namely a certain power (in Watt), DURING A PERIOD OF TIME. Intuitively one may see how 100W during 1 hour will be more energy than that same 100W for just a minute. So for energy you MULTIPLY power and time, Watt x hours, or Wh for short. DIVIDING power by time, like "Watts per hour" is basically meaningless[*]. [*] With some imagination it could stand for a power gradient: if the power rises from 10W to 100W in 1 hour that would be a gradient of 90W/h. I don't think anyone has ever used it this way, though.
I was thinking of the same thing. I'm not a Boomer but read enough on weird things we as humans had done over the years with the latest and greatest thing to make me skeptical of all miracle claims like these kickstarter snake oil scams.
Every new material is good for EVERYTHING, well for marketing everything at least, as long as it has a sexy name and the public knows about it. Heating shit up? Graphene. Batteries? Graphene. Capacitors? Graphene, duh. Levitation? Obviously Graphene. Bulletproof vests? G R A P H E N E
You can't see the special magic graphene paste being put on the thermal resistor (glas panel)? I like Dave's emotions on debunking bullshit from Kickstarter. Thanks from Germany you made my day!
they use plutonium 238 thats why they're most efficient the radioactive material produces heat and only 120W per hour is needed for the control systems, of course only downside is you cant turn it off but other than that its perfectly safe. anyway for some reason ever since i got this heater i've been getting skin burns and dehydration and have fainted several times but im sure i will get better
Received an email today from Kickstarter saying the Solus campaign has been suspended! So it seems enough people complained and Kickstarter looked into it and deemed them full of BS. So I get my whole dollar back I backed them with to comment on it. Judging by the comments a lot of people have been saved serious money however!
@@tmdrake lol. You can't be on EEVblog and not have some engineering in you. Heck I do a little of everything and post it up. Probably confusing as hell to the few who watch the videos.
Fake engineering is genius if you think about it. The con artists have come a long way to defraud thousands of uninformed people. It’s like free money.
@@Willam_J yes I won't be able to pull off a scam either. It would just bother me to no end. I am not too bad at designing and building products so some day I may actually put out a proper item for crowd funding. Can't do Kickstarter though since its not available where I live.
@@frosty129 it is free money but so is holding up a bank. Guess it can work for some but I can't do that. What annoys me is when things like this are explained and clueless people argue defending them.
I'd hire him, but he doesn't have to rant. I would rather he help me with my various electronics projects. :D Unless he wants to rant about my electronics projects, which I suppose that works as well. ;D
Soleus Air should sue them. Too close a name and worse, in a competing business. A 200 watt light bulb would do the same thing. Add a diode and there's your 50% duty cycle.
A light bulb would only be 97.8% efficient. You'd lose 2.2% efficiency by creating visible light and this thing loses less than 0.1% which makes it at least 22 times better. Your losses are 22 times less. You must think I am thick, but I'm not. A light bulb huh? LOL.
@@czarzenana5125 "You'd lose 2.2% efficiency by creating visible light " And that visible light gets partially absorbed on each reflection turning into heat. The only loss of energy you would have would be the light going out the window.
Okay, i completely lost it, when they claimed that the magnetic fields of the wire decrease the efficiency. If you want to confuse your audience, use magnetism!
Why not use a 200 watt incandescent bulb? Does much better radiation than this over-engineered, under-performing, larger footprint tile and is also much more cost efficient. Edit: didn't consider that bulb also gives off light. Not suitable if you plan warmth while sleeping, bulb would be galaring in your face, but eye mask can take care of that... 😬
Basically any IR heater gives off light.. The Black body radiation curve is a bastard. But you want a shitty lightbulb maybe so it doesn't equal daylight in your room
Thanks to your video and several people contacting Kickstarter, this project has been suspended and is being investigated. You have gone from being a youtuber providing valuable information, to a hero who may have saved hundreds of people thousands of dollars. Though I had no interest in the project I have been taken by other projects on Kickstarter so I don't like to see anyone go through that so I was one who reported this. Linking both your video, the UK investigation and several others. Hopefully together all of us as a community have done some good. Again thank you and thank you everyone who helped bring this to Kickstater's attention.
i dont know how and where i saw their promotion video but i was thinking "will EEVblog or Thunderfoot go to debunk this?" and here we go :) this thing is a clear scam...
In defense of the glass cover, it could be intended to prevent people burning themselves on it. Assuming the house it's in is well insulated, it doesn't really matter where the heat comes out of the box.
I never join a Kickstarter as there are to much scams there, like this. I prefer buying appliances in a real shop, so I know what I get and whom to sue when I don't get my warranty. And online is riskfull in case of bankruptcy..
I’ve joined a couple of Kickstarters, all of which delivered. Like everything in life one has to pay attention. While Kickstarter could, and should, check the offerings far better, it isn’t exactly fair to generalize as the majority of Kickstarter projects are not as blatantly obvious BS as the ones Dave rightfully targets (keep doing that man!). Kickstarter isn’t anything like a real shop anyhow. The problem is people in general are a bit too gullible and ignorant about many products, and sadly that isn’t really limited to Kickstarter and Indiegogo, etc. Ahwell, I’m getting off my soapbox, we probably agree about this anyway.
@@skullhqx I generally agree, my bad experience was a couple of young blokes having a go at making a documentary about a subject i was/am interested in, and i think life just got in the way of them completing it. Seven years so far, only a couple of updates until now, there has been no delivery of the supposed reward's for backers. I hope they finish it for their own satisfaction.
Just avoid CrowdFunding all together. There are very few actual good products there. Cause even if they deliver - there is a reason why they did it that way and not like any normal person. If a product is good they could either produce it normally or get investors. If it is a scam then CrowFunding protects THEM only and not the scammed buyers.
Yep, i would never join any kickstarter. People place too much trust in people, and the net is just like everywhere else in this world, full of con people. Glad i do not have any money like these people to throw away. But if people have money, and they want to follow someones thing, thats there business.
I worked for 25 years as an HVAC tech and have a lot of experience with radiators of all kinds. Convection does occur without fans. Since warm air rises and cold air falls, a VERY slow convection current is established. However, the amount of airflow depends on surface temperature and surface area. A standard radiator has FAR more surface area than this thing and glass is a poor thermal conductor and also blocks a large portion of infrared radiation (radiant heat). So most of the heat will be trapped inside. I can see this thing overheating internally and causing the tempered glass to shatter. Even if it does put out 300 Watts, that's equivalent to trying to heat your house with 3 x 100W incandescent light bulbs, which would likely be more efficient and cost much less than this thing. What a scam! A "thermal regulator" is what we in the trade call a "thermostat" lmao
Dear Dave, you are not (only) an engineer, but an entertainer! I love it! Kickstarter, to me, is a cesspool of conartists and individuals trying to profit off the naive. (note: I've only participated in three kickstarters...one from your home (Fly6/12 bike cams), a metal-D20 die set, and a smaller AC unit Noria*). Fly6 and 12 are actually viable products. The metal D20 dice were nice but smaller than actual scale, and were late (the person behind this was upfront and documented the processes), but the Noria is almost TWO years behind. KickMeInTheArseStarter is more like it. Thank you for your research, and your humor.
Maybe you should play into their game. Something like "Infrared is dangerous for your body and it interferes with your wifi". Boom, gullible customers gone ...
Funny comment but I was wondering if they are 100% efficient, the threads are glowing and are thereby loosing some of the energy to light. I don't know if I am right?
Infrared heaters are designed to heat objects (i.e. people) rather than the air hence the glass which is likely infrared transparent. The idea has been around for decades. I tried one many years ago and found it to be ineffective. This just looks like a more schmik version.
@@wangyeeee The Solar Freaking Roadway of heaters. The real problem with IR heaters is that the results are like being on Mercury. Your front will bake but your rear still freezes.
I don't think this looks like an IR heater at all. The glass would get incredibly hot from the around 1200 degrees C (+/- 300 or so) hot heating elements and touching that would leave half your skin on the glass plate. Also the graphene would absorb a lot of that infrared light and turn it into good old simple heat. Unless you want to heat that as well to glowing red temperatures which in this form factor is essentially like mounting a burning coal brick onto your wall.
@@SirBunghole That's an engineering problem. One easy solution is to simple place another high-power IR emitter on the opposite side of the room that tracks your ass. #ToastyBuns
*For a few hundred more dollars you can get a heater that also makes things out of plastic. Its just a bed for 3d printers but you put on the wall, good idea* .
You're thinking of the wrong type of radiant heater there Dave, don't forget they use the boilers and pump that water to all of the rooms in the house, loosing plenty of energy in the walls, roof space etc etc. They are far less than 100% efficient when you look at energy into the system vs energy into the room itself. A 200W infrared heater will also have the subjective appearance of generating more heat than an oil convection heater because it's warming you up rather than the air. Be buggered if I can see what's generating that kind of infra red energy though. The rest is of course utter BS, but you've at least got to give them that. There's those small grains of truth in there to make the rest sound plausible to the VERY casual glance.
However, gas boilers convert directly from fuel to heat; electric heaters are powered from the grid which has transmission losses and the power is generated by turbines which are either directly powered by fuel or from steam generated in a boiler (yes, I'm aware some countries have high levels of renewable energy, but that's not universal).
The glass panels keep the heat trapped by the elements meaning it takes longer to dissipate the heat generated. The heater stays nice and toasty so you only have to run it half the time. Meanwhile the rest of your room freezes over.
@@_BangDroid_ You made me laugh. My first thought when I started to read was that you where a conspiracy/free energy nutcase but then I read the rest and I have to agree with you.
Stand is an additional $1000. There was a Distributed Computer company that offered compute nodes as radiators. While its a great idea, I don't think it was executed particularly well. Although they are limited to the type of projects it can work on as high-end networking (e.g. 40, 56 even 100gb per node) is an important part of Super/ Distributed Computers. PS: Central Heating is common (and essential) in most of Europe. Currently 4c in London. Main reason is because heating with gas is cheaper than electric, and most are combi which also provide hot water. Speaking of efficiency checkout condensing boilers, they actually do recover heat from the steam/ water CREATED from burning hydrocarbons.
To be fair, a radiant heater is different than a convective heater. Most heaters are convective, either forced or passive, where air is heated and then this air moved around the room to heat objects (naturally due to black body effects they emit some infrared, but it's not central as with radiant heaters). Radiant heaters have a big reflector and tend to glow some. They feel pretty weird since the infrared heats your skin and face directly. It sounds like this might be radiant (infrared), so the glass wouldn't be a problem. Radiant heaters can be faster at heating you since they don't have to heat the air and then send that air at your skin, they just send the infrared through the air directly to your skin. Regarding "heat regulator", I was hoping you'd keep saying thermosta... heat regulator, to mock them.
They claim this is also a (passive) convective heater, which it is not. The glass prevents the air getting back to the actual element. But of course there is some natural room convection Oil (and water) heater which are seriously common are predominately natural convection also. But any type of heater has a mix of the various forms.
I fully agree... Same comment I did. The question is not about how the heat is produced but how efficiently is it transmitted to the environment. In any case, these guys are overselling their radiators.
I'm just talking about how a radiant heater feels. I tried one a while back and it was weird to use in a room. Maybe it's expectations. It's like sitting in front of a fireplace or a camp fire (or in the sun, as you say). I don't want that feeling just sitting at the desk. Oil-electric radiator FTW. Quiet and relatively safe due to low surface temperature.
Hey! Maybe in Australia these things didn't get popular, but here infrared heating panels are the subject of tons of websites claiming "super high efficiency heating" and "heat where it's needed". These websites almost always have this "scammy" feel in common. It's all bullshit of course, all you get is a sense of heat if you are in the direct "shine" of the panel, but in reality you just buy a number of low power passive convection heaters (they are typically a few hundred watts at most, each). It's funny that they boast about the infrared part, that it "delivers heat where needed" (your skin), but obviously they just put a thermostat in this, which will measure the air temperature, and thus they have to heat up the air just like any other convective device, and they'll definitely do a shit job at that, considering the lack of a proper heat exchange surface (as opposed to a good old finned radiator)..... This thing is a rather pointless rehashing of an old, and pointless "solution".
Isn't it just a pot warmer mounted on the wall? You could take your soup pot off the stove and let it sit on a horizontal, graphene, glass panel to keep it warm. Great for buffets.
EEVBlog - Ah, just what I want on my resistive heater - elements made up of a material with incredibly low resistance. I realise the whole thing is nonsense, but how exactly do they justify that one?
certainly looks like general cpu thermal heat paste. i think someone could even build 1 at home with some heating elements, a controller and 2 plates of glass the stand might take years of research to perfect tho lol
Save 80% on your electricity bill? Thats amazing. I wasn't aware normal heaters are under 20% efficient, especially as the most common efficiency loss is waste due to heating. Is graphene able to break the laws of thermodynamics? Conservation of energy perhaps? They deserve all of the money they have got, this heater isn't just revolutionary - it changes everything we know about physics to date.
The creator keeps hammering on this point: "Our graphene compound continues to generate heat when cut from the electrical current." No it doesn't. If this were the case, the heater would be a major hazard, because it would continue to heat in the absence of current, and whatever exothermic reaction is causing that runaway heat production would inevitably destroy the heater (and the building in which it was placed). That whole argument literally goes against the concept of an electric heater.
The co-efficient of performance (COP) of a heater is worked out by comparing kW heat to kW electricity (in terms Watts is used to define two types of energy, electrical and heat). Resistance heating (RH) has a COP of around 0.3. Or that for every 1kW of electricity used approx 0.3kW's heat energy will be produced. A reverse cycle air conditioner uses the "heat of compression" to increase the temperature of a gas (the refrigerant) to do the "work" involved in heating a medium (the refrigerant, the tubes then the air). This is a far more efficient way of imparting heat into a substance than a resistive wire heated using electricity. It is far cheaper (more efficient) to run a compressor and fan windings than it is to use RH. A current model of air conditioner uses 1kW of electrical power to make around 2.5-3.0kW's of heat energy. That's right, 0.3 COP compared to a COP of 3.0 (or more see below) For this reason gas (a similar COP of 30-35%) was phased out of British laundromats to be replaced with reverse cycle heating systems. If you check the "Advance technical specifications" on this current model Daikin AC rang of units, compare DTXF25TVMA: Power Input (Rated): Cool (kW) 0.67 and Heat (kW) 0.78, Rated Capacity: Cool (kW) 2.5 and Heat (kW) 3.0. Coefficient of Performance (COP) is the efficiency ratio of the amount of heating or cooling provided by a heating or cooling unit to the energy consumed by the system. ... Then the COP of the air conditioner would be 2.5 divided by 0.67 = 3.7, essentially almost 4 times more efficient than electrical heating. Watts electricity and Watts heat are easily confused making scams involving them easy to perpetuate. commercial.daikin.com.au/our-product-range/split-system-air-conditioning/dtxf-t
Haha. groundbreaking. Next kickstarter will be one of the graphene panels but you wear it on your back ( + a battery pack), so you can heat yourself directly !!
@@mrlithium69 Now that you mention it, if I'm already radiating heat generated from that 1500 calorie dinner I had earlier, I could conceivably apply a layer of graphene paste to my naked body, don a sweater and some heavy slacks, and turn my thermostat way down. Brilliant!
It's about time these kickstarter sites employed a small panel of scientists and engineers to vet projects before listing them and bar any scam projects that violate the laws of physics.
And be 80% colder. That suffering while freezing would be worth saving 80% on my heating bill. Hell, the colder I get - the more I'll shiver = the less heat I need and the more heat I produce.
I save 100% on my heating bill by living in Florida (never needed a heater). Now the amount of energy dedicated to removing heat (and yes, even in December!), that's not so cheap.
I'm kinda in the field. If you look into best heating system you can have i recommend underfloor heating. It have it's drawbacks (mainly reaction time) but it's best idea we have right now. You basically change your floor into HUGE radiator, with temperature of ~30 C you get Insane amounts of heat, and if u can use condensing boiler (that have insane efficiency among boilers) and water it's great. Condensing boilers "like" to work on temperatures close to those optimal for underfloor heating. Also Heat pumps are a great alternative for boiler ;) There are also electric underfloor heating systems ;)
Disclaimer: I don't know much about that. But I can tell you what the sellers are telling us about the IR heating elements on sale here in Europe. They say they are so efficient because the feeling in a room is the same at lower temp - than in a room with convection heating. Supposedly they are heating you from the inside and are heating the furniture, and don't heat the air directly. So, in short - with IR radiation heating you should have the same feeling of 'warmth' at a lower room air temperature. And this is basically an IR heater.
This is what I was thinking. Not to defend the numerous incorrect claims in the campaign, but if the primary means of heat transfer is via radiation of IR rather than convection, the heater could give an increased perception of warmth despite lower average room temperatures. So if the goal is to improve comfort rather than raise the room temperature, it could be argued that this unit might create the same perceived warmth as a higher-power convection-based heater would produce by heating the air. The effect could be especially pronounced in drafty/poorly insulated rooms where warm air from a predominantly convective heater would be diluted by ingress of cold air, whereas radiated IR would be directly incident on the people in the room, giving the perception of warmer temperatures.
But the trouble is that their measurements are based on air temperature in the room. They explicitly say that their system is better because it gets the air 1m off the ground next to their unit hotter than a conventional radiator gets a thermometer lying on the floor. But... if they used the same thermometer for both tests the results would not favour their system. It would either use the same amount of power, or heat the room less. Their silly "test" is designed to obscure that problem.
Yeah, Europe is full of scammers trying to sell IR heaters with exorbitant claims. Truth is, they're about as comfortable as sitting in front of a campfire - your face is warm, while your back is cold. And if you have to get up and move around the room, you're all cold. My ancestors didn't pillage and enslave the global South for me to have to deal with that shit.
Excuse me people. How would it be possible to reduce your heating bill with a more efficient heater when the problem of heating your house is caused by heat escaping your house.
It's not a more efficient heater. In fact with a lossy house it has *less* system efficiency in terms of temperature rise than a larger capacity radiator.
mrlithium @ 0:09 into the video. If the manufacturer claims a saving of 80% on your utility bill, the manufacturer obviously doesn't understand where heat loss occurs. The loss doesn't occur in the conversion process. but in the heat loss through walls, doors, windows etc. If you don't believe me open your doors and windows in the middle of winter and watch your electric bill go up. As Dave points out, electric conversion to heat is 100%. On a more fundamental understanding, SOLUS COULDN'T EVEN IDENTIFY THE CAUSE OF HEAT LOSS CORRECTLY. THEY BLAME IT ON THE HEATER, NOT THE HOUSE. If your house was PERFECTLY insulated, you wouldn't need a heater. Your body would generate enough heat to keep it warm.
Ooooh, I have a brand new Kickstarter idea for a super-high efficiency heater - it runs outside, hunts down all your escaping heat, absorbs it, and brings it all back in...! Sure to be over-funded, this one...
Attila Asztalos I know your idea sounds ridiculous, but in a simplified form, that's generally how a heat pump works. In effect, it cools down the outside to heat the inside.
The one aspect of graphene that I didn't notice you mention is that the extreme thermal conductivity is directional and perpendicular to the atomic matrix. If the graphene were to be applied in a paste then the arrangement of the graphene matrix would be random and therefore would have a random thermal conductivity.
Perhaps what they're claiming is that the emissivity of their heater is highly efficient (close to perfect blackbody). The consumer units you were comparing to are not particular good 'radiators', they're convective heaters. A white dimplex oil heater only radiates about 15 - 20% of it's energy. So the claim that those other consumer goods is the same is a little misleading. The glass is not being used as a conductive substrate, it's being used in a transmissive mode. But at the end of the day you're right, a Watt is a Watt. I think it's important to explain conductive, convective and radiated energy as they're very different; radiated energy dump from a black body is X^2 faster than passive convective. A good example is when you go to Bunnings in winter and they have I.R. heaters near the checkouts - They're radiating energy into an infinite space, but you still feel warm and they're doing that by not using infinite BTU's. It's the mechanism of energy delivery that appears to be their "claim to fame".
The idea is selling by the design , if this thing achieve the infrared spectrum to deliver heat not a bad idea and glass is not an issue , but my doubt is about that specific point , how you deliver infrared waves trough a tick layer of graphene , it's possible ? , the infrared radiator's on the market emits light and have some kind of deflector to do their job , so if this thing pretends to emit infrared radiation and is not glowing red at least , how achieve that ? , probably is not capable to do that i guess . And the "pulsing" can be achieved by a simple diode , but this device have not thermal inertia like the oil heater .
We do have water radiating heaters here in Australia. There are mainly used in hospitals where water heaters flow through pipes to heat the air passing through.
the only waterbased heaters we have in europe are central heating heaters using boilers or high efficience central heaterrs.. they use gas burners to heat the water and go though pipes through your house to the radiators.. there are no electric waterheaters here as far as i know
The oxide would only momentarily delay output. The temperature gradient across the oxide layer would grow until it is high enough for sufficient heat to flow to reach equilibrium with the power coming in. When the power source is removed, the high temperature inside the oxide would bleed off through the oxide, getting back that heat collected during the delay at startup, and everything equals out.
Those oil heaters are more convection heaters then radiators, the ones with an incandescent element that have a reflector behind it (like a space heater, without a fan, more or less). Tehnicaly, the in floor heating is the most efficient, not electrically, but in terms of deliveing the heat in a way that it seeps out slower before getting where you want it the most. Want insane heating efficiency? Thick insulation, double doors, 3 sheet glass windows... basically make sure the least ammount of heat escapes the house, so u can keep your desired temperature with the least ammount of energy input.
I have heavily backed this wonderful and revolutionary heater. I understand that you guys are predigest and bigoted purely because you believe in facts and figures and not the feelings of a new future. You are outdated in your scientific approach to NEW ideas and that is why my feelings that this is the future of heating tech will be the future.
Sorry to hear you have backed this. Still trying to understand how proving / disproving using physics and scientific principles is outdated. After all, doesn't the KS campaign do the same thing? If by "feelings of a new future," you mean misleading people and using statistics that contradict themselves, then you may be happy to learn that this isn't the future... this exists now and, unfortunately, is gaining in popularity. As for "predigest and bigoted", yeah, I guess you could say I'm "scam-a-phobic."
I teach (amongst other things) physics for a living. There are so many claims in that campaign that conflicts with everything I teach. I therefore took the liberty to report the campaign to Kickstarter, as I can only see it as a scam. It is quite obvious to me that ether Kickstarter wants their cut of the money no matter what or they have not looked into all the comments that hammers their claims. I still call Bulls**t.
Here is their reply:
Hi there,
Thank you for bringing this project to our attention:
Project: SOLUS - The Most Efficient Radiator In The World
Report date: March 2, 2019, 8:17 AM EST
Report content:
The product creator’s delivers a lot of very nice claims og their panel being much better than other conventional panels. I call bullshit. I teach physics for a living and it is very clear to me, tha...
We’ve investigated and determined that it doesn’t violate our rules or community guidelines. If you believe there is an issue that’s not covered by our rules or guidelines, please contact us with more details.
If you haven’t already, you can also communicate directly with the project creator.
While we won’t be taking action on this project at this time, we value your input. We rely on reports like yours to ensure the safety and integrity of Kickstarter for everyone.
Thanks again for looking out for the Kickstarter community.
Best,
Kickstarter Trust & Safety
Thanks for trying. Another person tried too and got a similar response.
Reported as well!
Kickstarter Woo Woo Land.
I've also reported them on Kickstarter and got a much better response (probably because of the number of reports they are getting), although it is still unclear what they will do. "We’ve investigated it and taken action. While we can’t provide specific details, our actions may include-but aren’t limited to-suspending projects, individual accounts, or payment to creators. Please know that not all investigations result in these actions, and that actions taken may not be visible to the Kickstarter community."
I, too, received the pitiful reply from Kickstarter on 4th March 2019 after I reported the matter: "We’ve investigated and determined that it doesn’t violate our rules or community guidelines.".
Perhaps Kickstarter can explain how it breaks the laws of physics. Or perhaps they finally did bother to look into the matter properly.....
I hate inefficient heaters that lose all their electricity to... heat.
When you heat a gas you could think of it as idealised hardballs bumping into eachother, but still there is heat generated so some type of "friction?", by oscillating kinetics must take place because the oscillation finally peter out regardless thermal insulation, or would they forever bump around and keep "heat?" using a perfect insulator? I mean why do they lose speed "heat due to kinetics?" in an open space is it just that the perimeter of the atoms/molecules tries to even out the pressure spreading to a bigger area. If that was the case a fan would not matter for the total healt in a room reached, finally it would spread out even? But it does so probably the heat stay local or raise to the ceiling instead of heating the room?
That makes one wonder what goes on in a solid are the attached molecules also considered to be idealised perfect hardballs "elastic collisions?", or are their oscillation more like rigid body kinetics in a single mesh? I mean different materials hold heat better? Why does a saline solution in water trap the heat longer then water without the salt?
Lets hope they do not readjust the frequensy of the 3G / 5G net to produce heat in water, because i suspect that would be some aspect of what wavelength used, and really problemetic it become if they use nanosilver in our food supplies that penetrate the cellmembranes and they get into selfoscillation at a certain frequnsy in water. Then we do have a bloody armageddon upon our hands. Have you read about howto heat water with nanoparticles?
That is by the way how both directed energy weapons work and cause effects upon us, where our cellmembranes explode and cause hemorrhagic fever well not the viral one if there is such.
phys.org/news/2016-06-high-efficient-solar-nanoparticles.html
Jonas: Wut? Håhåjaja
@@HugSeal42 I say it is not driven by induction heat it work on military technology principles by setting the medium into oscillation like directed energy principles. You emit waves at the frequensy where the medium selfoscillate.
@@HugSeal42 And this also same principles not same frequensy.
ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon.html
NOTE: I plan to do a proper tutorial and explain space (room) heating in detail and the different types and effects of heat transfer and losses. Hoping to do this on Monday.
UPDATE: They claim in the KS comments that they have been already producing 2000 units a month, and they have admitted in the comments and updates that they are *only now* doing actual room tests!
"Thermal Regulator"...
"Wowwww!" lol
Can you do an investigation about those concrete blocks crane towers to store energy.
We had so much discussion about it, w'r not getting out of it. ;)
When you do - remember MOST radiant heaters have glass faces to allow them to heat up to where they emit IR and prevent the restive element oxidising. Think halogen and ass you said glass bar heaters. This is laid out like a non forced convective heater (there are heaps of flat panel heaters like it already with metal faces) but is supposed to somehow radiate IR, using 200W to heat that entire area.
I reckon you were easily radiating 400 Watts yourself while filming this vid, Dave.
But at least you were 80% efficient. lol
Dave, remember, a person is a 100W heater: 2000 kcal/day, 1 calorie = 4.18 Joules.
I didn't even notice they said "190W per hour"
Can't even get their units right! LOL!
110% efficiency is real
we can have 110% humidity or is nature exempt from the laws of physics
They must have made at least a couple units. They could ship those and people will review them. But scamming people is more important
Pentium 4 = heat = computer use = much higher efficiency since it can do two things at once
make heat and run the computer 110% efficiency
With 190w heater there is no way to heat something in winter time, need at least 8 radiators to heat 1 room, where is the money / energy saving?
EEVblog - How exactly do you "heat a volume of space"?
According to Nasa's findings, I'd say that is impossible.
My current heater is lion-repellent. Since installing it, I haven't found any lions at all, not even hiding behind the sofa. Missed opportunity, by SOLUS, I'm surprised they didn't include this feature.
I think we have the same model heater and I absolutely love it... not only does it repel lions, it also repels bear! Not one bear has set foot in my home since purchasing it! Best lion and bear repellent heater I have ever purchased!
Mine also repels woman! Oh wait, I think that's my breath.
it reppels UFOs and mental doctors either!
Windmills repel global warming and unicorns.
Towels protect you from shark attacks. Sharks only attack people who are wet, and since I got a towel, I've never been attacked by a shark.
Technology Connections also has a really nice video about space heater bullshit. A good watch after this one!
th-cam.com/video/V-jmSjy2ArM/w-d-xo.html
Looks good!
Especially the part that electric heaters are pretty much 100% effective because Heat IS their product is eye opening.
Some heaters are better at heating a given space than others. Yes, they're all 97+% efficient at converting electricity to heat, but that doesn't mean they're worth a d**n getting that heat throughout a room. The parabolic heater I have will cook you if you stand in front of it, but does a poor job heating the entire room. Alone it'll hold the room about 68F; with a fan moving the air in the room, the room will be over 80F. The number you want is the efficiency of _heat transfer._
@@jfbeam Except they're also 100% efficient at transferring heat.
You're talking about an IR heater that blasts you with LWIR and MWIR light, which heats *you* up directly.
Project was suspended by Kickstarter
Edit: Coming from Geneva Switzerland and knowing a lot about the companies in the region (as I lived in the industrial zone), this company is not registered in Geneva at all. Company is registered in some tiny village with a total population of around 1300 people in the canton of Vaud which is near Geneva but simply isn't. Looking into the founder, he specializes in marketing within the aviation industry mostly (lounges and what-not) and seems to be on of those 'cousin of a cousin' type of person who is not at all qualified to do X or Y but will get the contract through connections (this is literally killing the Swiss economy btw because competent companies go bankrupt)
The only way this would save you 90 percent is to plug it into your neighbor's house :)
Or you could just bypass your meter like a lot of people do in my town.
As long as they don't notice, its free energy
That explains why you mount it on the wall. Guess a shared wall in a terrace?
Years ago I think it was back in the late 1960's A BBC program "Tomorrows World" in the UK demonstrated a system to heat your house using a special chemical that was painted on 2 opposite walls and for decrative purposes could be wallpapered or painted over. The unit was powered from a 12 volt car battery and used so little power to run that the battery would last all year without needing to be re-charged. The technology that made this possible was described as being based on an electrolytic capacitor, and rather than heating the volume of air in the room it produced a heat field around the occupants or items within the electric field. They were swamped with enquiries recieved from interested potential customers who hadn't realised that the program was broadcast on 1st April. Maybe this could feature as the latest Kickstarter scam next month!!!
Yes and the spaghetti trees! I think that was Panorama though. Another UK TV show messing with people on April 1st :)
What you are describing is possible, only not sure you want to do it. If you change the polarity of the electric field water molecules heat up because they keep having to realign with the field. This is what also happens in a microwave oven, look it up. So they don't heat the air around people, they heat the people themselves. Like putting them in the microwave. I'm sure it works but I don't think it's a good idea.
Heating the walls is not a bad idea: your comfort level is determined by the walls' temperature, not by the air temperature as one might think.
You can do this now! -- Mix your own Pluto-Paint: For a 1500 watt room heater you just need to add about 2.7 Kg of finely ground Plutonium-238 to your favorite paint. There may be some physiological ramifications.
@@frazzleface753 IT WAS ROBERT MURRY SMITH THATS GDO ALL SHORTS WITH GRAPHEN NO TOMORROWS WORLD
Dave is 100% correct that *all* resistive heaters are 100% efficient -- but it seems he's a little confused between radiation and convection. The correct type of glass will have little effect on radiant heat transfer but will be quite a good insulator to impede the flow of convective heat transfer. This device is definitely a snake-oil heater though.
Yeah, the glass may not conduct heat well, but it can and does radiate it just fine. It also acts as a thermal mass to reduce cycling, but yeah, it is no more efficient then any other radiator.
There are two types of convection in this instance (three actually).
1) Natural convection caused by the radiated heat rising and forming convection currents in the room
2) Natural "Convection heaters" which have the air circulate inside and around the elements and then rise outward (you are right, as I mentioned in the video, the Sonus can't do this because it's sealed and the glass is an insulator)
3) Forced convection heaters which are the same as #2 but use fan to force circulate air around the room. You can also use a ceiling fan to do similar.
The insulative glass will initially be quite poor at radiating the heat from the element, but will improve with time. No heat is lost of course, it eventually gets out.
Dave has 100% efficiency
Some of the power is also radiated as infrared light instead of thermal motion. That infrared power output rises with temperature to the power of 4. Infrared heaters or heat lamps are a real product and usually have working temperatures above 1000°C. This product doesn't look like that at all though. Otherwise, they would show off that nice red glow and have to admit that it's a serious fire hazard in that form factor.
"Graphene paste" - isn't the whole point of graphene to be an atom thick? That's just soot paste - it's a shit carbon film power resistor
My thought exactly. Graphene paste my arse!!!
Graphite ink
It's possible to make a paste out of particles that are each only an atom thick. That's exactly what they're talking about.
@@BenjaminGoose doesn't graphene get it's conductive properties from being in a single 2D lattice? I feel like mixing it in a paste would offset and overlap lattices and it would basically just be a graphite paste which does have its own properties, but it ain't graphene.
Not even! That's a carbon composition resistor. Carbon film is much better
they reinvented the resistor.......lol
But it looks pretty
@@EEVblog And it's an efficient resistor :)
And no ribbed surfaces whatsoever. Smooth hi-tech. Just like Elon Musk would want it.
EEVblog I prefer the look of a 70' / 80's Vulcan wall furnace personally :) :p probably works better too.
resistor freakin roadways!
weller's unfused soldering station=best heater
I don't know, I'm still partial to the old 500W halogen lamps ... light and heat at the same time. Bonus, you know a head of time your electric bill was going to be high.
Jax jackson Also you could toast bread with them. 3 in 1!
My computer is more than 100% efficient, it makes pretty lights AND heat!
Best electric vape 😀👍
*GENIUSES, THEY'VE REINVENTED THE REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER*
Lol your right
I've already got a very cheap 100% efficient radiant heater in my kitchen. It works nicely at a distance when there's no toast to block the IR heat radiation.
:) that is a large 3D printer heated bed. A bit sad people are not more educated. And how they got over the Kickstarter review (I guess they only care about money not that uneducated people getting scammed).
It's in Kickstarter's interest to have as many successfully funded projects as possible so the main deciding factor of whether they'll let in a project or not is how likely successful will it be in generating hype and whether the commission they get from the project is worth the potential backslash (if it's a snake-oil project). This one ticks all the right boxes when it comes to Kickstarter, they would love to have as many projects as this as possible.
Stupid people make many people rich. Always have, always will. But a good video can always bend physics. Lest, they get some consensus of scientific opinions, then it must be a fact. Is there a chance that nano technologies could increase the radiation efficiency? Absolutely. But does that change the electrical efficiency? Obviously not. Great video. Green energy always equals real green $$$ in someone's pocket.
Whenever my heated bed goes on I can feel my meter spinning like crazy and my bank account slowly draining. In long prints (10h) the room the printer is in actually gets warm.(I have a mains powered heated bed) The problem is here in Cyprus we have the most expensive electricity throughout EU.
It is the same for most crowdfunding projects - they need crowdfunding cause any normal investor will first check if their claims are even possible and then decline the obvious scams.
I sent a note to Kickstarter with links to the project page as well as Dave's video. I encourage everyone to do the same thing...
$15 for 1500W heater.. $300 for 300W heater ..100% more efficient for them
My 60” plasma tv makes a better heater... with graphics thrown in for free!
My pc after a few hours does the job in winter.
If you play one of those fireplace videos on your plasma tv, it almost feels real if you stand in front of it.
Probably has cooling fans that actually push the heat into the room too!
Mark Cummings rr
TV is excellent... If you need a lot of heat, go for a crypto-currency miner. The BTC (or whatever) is just another NICE side effect.
Funding suspended by Kickstarter just in the nick of time!
they will relaunch it on IGG.
16.3.19 "Today we want to announce that we will be launching SOLUS again on Indiegogo in April."
@@Kalidor99 oh you have got to be kidding me. That is just so unreal to me that they are continuing their dishonest campaign. If they continue to say their radiator is 95% more efficient than 100% efficient radiators, they deserve the additional blight on their name when it does get suspended, and it will.
they're back up on indiegogo
Now it's "only" up to 30% more "cost" efficient.
What if we connect it to a Solar Roadway? Could the planet survive the combination?
CO2 emitted by those two could melt glaciers and submerge entire world. Be cautious.
A great idea! That will make your girlfriend happier and make the environment have more quality time with your loved ones!!1! ^^)
I feel this is how we cause a tear in the time space continuum. Or create a black hole.
... and use the batterizer for backup power! WOW what a concept!
@@pomonabill220 Okay, let's not go crazy.
The cheap radiator have two lights on it, and the light can travel outside the home, and lose the energi. The Solus have no lights, so technically its more efficient.
B. But it has infared heating witch is just light that can travl outside??
Marketing material: NOW WITH NEW LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!
Thermodynamics was the FIRST THING that came to mind before I finished the video and I saw Dave brought up the AWFUL tempered glass conducting properties.
Check their response to my video in the KS comments! They again effectively claim the graphene produces heat when the power is cycled off!
Spilled my coffee!! Ha ha
actually this heater is 500,000% efficient, the way it accomplishes that is it contains 5kg of mixture of plutonium dioxide and plutonium 238, which allows it to produce 2kW of heat energy with a half-life of 87.7 years, it's an exciting new method to heat your room and an exciting crowdsourced community of radiation poisoned people
Woah this heater is amazing! Let's use it for the greater good:
Get an array of Solus heaters to boil water, use the steam to power a turbine-generator, use the electricity to power the heaters! Since modern power plants can get 50% efficiency there is easily some electricity leftover to power your house. Bonus: you can use the waste heat from the condensers to heat your house!!!! I'd better start a crowdfunding to save the planet!
A couple hundred watts?.......good luck heating a room with that.....does it come with a coupon for a sweater?
I have a 3.6kw heater for my full house... And we have 10 rooms (including bathrooms and kitchen)... Of cause we got really think insulatiin
@@matsv201 that is a very small amount, but still the equivalent of having more than two of these heaters per room. Just out of curiosity, what are the temperature extremes where you are located?
@@mdrew44628
Yea i would need to have two of the larger in the larger rooms... and in the bathroom i probobly would be able to go with just one of the smaller... but its not quite true.
I live in the center of Sweden Inland from Stockholm.
Normally the temperatures is between -10C and 0 in the winter. Sometimes its -30C.
There is a bit of a caveat, making this not quite applicable. To the benefit of the system i have. It uses a 1500 liter reservat tank. This even out the power usage between night and day.
I also use inteligente thermostats. At might and weekdays before non kitchen drops down to 8C (also saving power on the refrigerator). The childrens bedroom drop down to 12C when they are in school, and the master bedroom drops down to 12C until 7PM....
Well, that is, the thermostat drop down, the room temperature rarely do. Also the heated garage is set on 10 degree all day.
On week ends the heating is for most part on full tilt all day.
The bath rooms is on 25C all day every day
To the "decerment" of my system. It also heats water. This do use a bit of power, specially with a 300liter tub.
Of cause, the electric heating is only "lazy" heating. I have a secondary heater. A 14kW wood stove that i have to use if the temperature drops down to lower than -10. But i usualy run it every second day or so during the winter. But i can run the house with out it, no problem. Just that wood is cheaper than electric power.
I also have a tertiary heating system. 4.8kW solar power. This is brand new, and i just used it for last 6 month. This system pretty much give 0 power during December and January. Ut just never get sufficiently hot to circulate the water.
But during the second half of February it really helps a lot. I bought the solar panels so i wouldn´t need to run the electricity during the summer.,
The thing is over here. While the electric power is dirt cheap during the summer (about 2-4c/kWh), the transfer cost is really quite high (almost a euro). I calculated that i would have the solar heater payed back with in 8 years only for the 6 month during the warm part of the year.
Exactly, 200w would have trouble heating a shoebox. Most room heaters are at least 1kw.
Maybe it's made for the Australian market. I'm thinking it might be ideally sized for QLD or NT, especially between October and March.
LOL. The JO motion in the beginning. Truly amazing how much money people can make off these scams. Great video!
They could have made them more efficient by putting a photo of a log fire on them to make you psychologically warmer
Make it animated. "Wow that fire is really roaring better turn it down a little". It could work! lol.
@@redsquirrelftw Or make it psychedelically warmer: Give the people in front of it some acid to intensify the illusion. :-) There was an experience on a festival sometime ago when somebody was sitting in front a bunch of red candles and behind him there was a burning garden torch, making sounds of a fire. It took the person some time to realize, that there was NO campfire. :-)
That infra-red thermometer you see in their video is a generic $12 one from ebay
That crap about "magnetic fields instead of heat" wow, just wow, I have no words for that amount of nonsense.
Technically, EM fields are pretty efficient heaters. I wouldn't go put myself into a microwave though.
Gordon Freeman The words you are looking for are: BS
Havent tried to heat my apartment with a radio transmitter lately.
They slept through Thermodynamics class, all semester. So did Fabian. ^^^
yeah... and we all know how magnetic dust particles are, right?!?!?
Once again spot on Dave, I would argue that a Bitcon mining rig is the most efficient heating you could get :D
*Thunderfoot should make 4 or 5 1.5 hour long video on this and compare it to solar roadways*
No doubt he will.
Rants for days :D
@@heyarno days? YEARS!
Not only is glass a poor thermal conductor, it blocks mid-band infrared (thermal infared). That's why it's used in greenhouses, because it prevents radiant heat from escaping.
Every time Dave says "Watts per hour", something dies inside me..
Mario hjkuzffrt why?
@@Paradiesgestalter Watts are a unit of power, or energy over time. One watt is one joule per second.
So power is to energy as speed is to distance.
"watt per second" describes a change in power, just like acceleration describes a change in speed. Taken literally, it means that the device would be consuming 180 watts after an hour, 360 watts after two hours, and so forth!
Obviously, they meant to say "watts" not "watts per hour"..but didn't, whoopsie.
Steven Haussmann thx for the info
Mario, I also feel your pain
@@Paradiesgestalter - TBH, it's not just these scammers who make this error. Only, in their case it's most embarrassing because it's supposed to be their expertise.
Wh means Watt-hours, though you will more often read kWh, for kWh. (1 kWh = 1000 Wh). It's a measure of energy, namely a certain power (in Watt), DURING A PERIOD OF TIME. Intuitively one may see how 100W during 1 hour will be more energy than that same 100W for just a minute. So for energy you MULTIPLY power and time, Watt x hours, or Wh for short.
DIVIDING power by time, like "Watts per hour" is basically meaningless[*].
[*] With some imagination it could stand for a power gradient: if the power rises from 10W to 100W in 1 hour that would be a gradient of 90W/h. I don't think anyone has ever used it this way, though.
Like radium quackerey. "Oh..we found a new material... it must be good for EVERYTHING"
FranklinLaserBlog plastic was the same back in the early 20th century...
Same people, different materials...
I was thinking of the same thing. I'm not a Boomer but read enough on weird things we as humans had done over the years with the latest and greatest thing to make me skeptical of all miracle claims like these kickstarter snake oil scams.
Every new material is good for EVERYTHING, well for marketing everything at least, as long as it has a sexy name and the public knows about it.
Heating shit up? Graphene.
Batteries? Graphene.
Capacitors? Graphene, duh.
Levitation? Obviously Graphene.
Bulletproof vests?
G
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Wow this is the most obvious Kickstarter scam I've seen in a long time.
Since they were namedropping my school for tests I wrote a quick letter to our pr department, cant wait to hear back from them.
Hold on. Did anyone spot the *CARBON NANO TUBES* !?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?
For the DMtech f
You can't see the special magic graphene paste being put on the thermal resistor (glas panel)?
I like Dave's emotions on debunking bullshit from Kickstarter.
Thanks from Germany you made my day!
They used to promote asbestos being in everything when it was new technology. Carbon Nanotubes are just as bad if not worse.
It's like tiny little cannons of heat! /s
I will never read CARBON NANO TUBES without imagining Riley saying it
Just reported them to kickstarter, and recommend everyone else do so(it doesn't take much time).
they use entangled quantum nano dots made of graphene and whale snot......bargain!!!
Yeah but they should have added some AI, everything needs AI these days.
@@DOYLECLEVERLOBE1 If they glued some gears on and called it steampunk it would run even better
Whale semen is more conductive than Whale snot.... You clearly are misled by the snot industry.
DOYLECLEVERLOBE1 Also dont forget the IoT or how I like to call it, Internet of Shit.
they use plutonium 238 thats why they're most efficient the radioactive material produces heat and only 120W per hour is needed for the control systems, of course only downside is you cant turn it off but other than that its perfectly safe. anyway for some reason ever since i got this heater i've been getting skin burns and dehydration and have fainted several times but im sure i will get better
Received an email today from Kickstarter saying the Solus campaign has been suspended!
So it seems enough people complained and Kickstarter looked into it and deemed them full of BS.
So I get my whole dollar back I backed them with to comment on it. Judging by the comments a lot of people have been saved serious money however!
Sometimes I wonder why try to do real engineering..... ah but I am not a leech feeding off stupid people.
Those who tried (like me) people think its black magic.
@@tmdrake lol. You can't be on EEVblog and not have some engineering in you.
Heck I do a little of everything and post it up. Probably confusing as hell to the few who watch the videos.
Fake engineering is genius if you think about it. The con artists have come a long way to defraud thousands of uninformed people. It’s like free money.
@@Willam_J yes I won't be able to pull off a scam either. It would just bother me to no end.
I am not too bad at designing and building products so some day I may actually put out a proper item for crowd funding. Can't do Kickstarter though since its not available where I live.
@@frosty129 it is free money but so is holding up a bank. Guess it can work for some but I can't do that.
What annoys me is when things like this are explained and clueless people argue defending them.
"You can hire me, to stand in your room and rant and i´ll generate heat." Take my money!
I'd hire him, but he doesn't have to rant. I would rather he help me with my various electronics projects. :D
Unless he wants to rant about my electronics projects, which I suppose that works as well. ;D
Soleus Air should sue them. Too close a name and worse, in a competing business.
A 200 watt light bulb would do the same thing. Add a diode and there's your 50% duty cycle.
Yeah, very close in name in the same field!
Somebody should tip them off!
A light bulb would only be 97.8% efficient.
You'd lose 2.2% efficiency by creating visible light and this thing loses less than 0.1% which makes it at least 22 times better.
Your losses are 22 times less. You must think I am thick, but I'm not. A light bulb huh?
LOL.
@@czarzenana5125 "You'd lose 2.2% efficiency by creating visible light "
And that visible light gets partially absorbed on each reflection turning into heat. The only loss of energy you would have would be the light going out the window.
except for light escaping through windows, the light also eventually be turned into heat
Okay, i completely lost it, when they claimed that the magnetic fields of the wire decrease the efficiency. If you want to confuse your audience, use magnetism!
Why not use a 200 watt incandescent bulb? Does much better radiation than this over-engineered, under-performing, larger footprint tile and is also much more cost efficient.
Edit: didn't consider that bulb also gives off light. Not suitable if you plan warmth while sleeping, bulb would be galaring in your face, but eye mask can take care of that... 😬
Basically any IR heater gives off light.. The Black body radiation curve is a bastard. But you want a shitty lightbulb maybe so it doesn't equal daylight in your room
You could put the bulb in a swanky black box.. put a few logos on it, a bit of chrome maybe.. sell it for a fortune.
Woods blacklight bulb should help
That would probobly save more heat. Because when ir hit the skin it feals warmer.. promting you to lower the temperature
@@allesklarklaus147 we owned a poultry farm, we used to keep the chicken warm with help of an array of 200w bulbs in 2°C...😁
Thanks to your video and several people contacting Kickstarter, this project has been suspended and is being investigated. You have gone from being a youtuber providing valuable information, to a hero who may have saved hundreds of people thousands of dollars. Though I had no interest in the project I have been taken by other projects on Kickstarter so I don't like to see anyone go through that so I was one who reported this. Linking both your video, the UK investigation and several others. Hopefully together all of us as a community have done some good. Again thank you and thank you everyone who helped bring this to Kickstater's attention.
i dont know how and where i saw their promotion video but i was thinking "will EEVblog or Thunderfoot go to debunk this?" and here we go :) this thing is a clear scam...
Didn't want to disappoint!
@@EEVblog thanks for the great video (i am still watching it tho), i enjoy your debunking videos :) keep them coming...
In defense of the glass cover, it could be intended to prevent people burning themselves on it. Assuming the house it's in is well insulated, it doesn't really matter where the heat comes out of the box.
Yep. Kickstarter crap. Been stooged by kickstarter before. I learned a valuable lesson. Dont give money away.
I never join a Kickstarter as there are to much scams there, like this.
I prefer buying appliances in a real shop, so I know what I get and whom to sue when I don't get my warranty. And online is riskfull in case of bankruptcy..
I’ve joined a couple of Kickstarters, all of which delivered. Like everything in life one has to pay attention. While Kickstarter could, and should, check the offerings far better, it isn’t exactly fair to generalize as the majority of Kickstarter projects are not as blatantly obvious BS as the ones Dave rightfully targets (keep doing that man!). Kickstarter isn’t anything like a real shop anyhow. The problem is people in general are a bit too gullible and ignorant about many products, and sadly that isn’t really limited to Kickstarter and Indiegogo, etc. Ahwell, I’m getting off my soapbox, we probably agree about this anyway.
@@skullhqx I generally agree, my bad experience was a couple of young blokes having a go at making a documentary about a subject i was/am interested in, and i think life just got in the way of them completing it. Seven years so far, only a couple of updates until now, there has been no delivery of the supposed reward's for backers. I hope they finish it for their own satisfaction.
Just avoid CrowdFunding all together.
There are very few actual good products there. Cause even if they deliver - there is a reason why they did it that way and not like any normal person.
If a product is good they could either produce it normally or get investors. If it is a scam then CrowFunding protects THEM only and not the scammed buyers.
Yep, i would never join any kickstarter.
People place too much trust in people, and the net is just like everywhere else in this world, full of con people.
Glad i do not have any money like these people to throw away.
But if people have money, and they want to follow someones thing, thats there business.
I worked for 25 years as an HVAC tech and have a lot of experience with radiators of all kinds. Convection does occur without fans. Since warm air rises and cold air falls, a VERY slow convection current is established. However, the amount of airflow depends on surface temperature and surface area. A standard radiator has FAR more surface area than this thing and glass is a poor thermal conductor and also blocks a large portion of infrared radiation (radiant heat). So most of the heat will be trapped inside. I can see this thing overheating internally and causing the tempered glass to shatter. Even if it does put out 300 Watts, that's equivalent to trying to heat your house with 3 x 100W incandescent light bulbs, which would likely be more efficient and cost much less than this thing. What a scam! A "thermal regulator" is what we in the trade call a "thermostat" lmao
1 btu per btu
That would indeed be a direct one to one conversion.
Indeed! Just like all the other ones! th-cam.com/video/V-jmSjy2ArM/w-d-xo.html
Dear Dave, you are not (only) an engineer, but an entertainer! I love it! Kickstarter, to me, is a cesspool of conartists and individuals trying to profit off the naive. (note: I've only participated in three kickstarters...one from your home (Fly6/12 bike cams), a metal-D20 die set, and a smaller AC unit Noria*). Fly6 and 12 are actually viable products. The metal D20 dice were nice but smaller than actual scale, and were late (the person behind this was upfront and documented the processes), but the Noria is almost TWO years behind. KickMeInTheArseStarter is more like it. Thank you for your research, and your humor.
Maybe you should play into their game. Something like "Infrared is dangerous for your body and it interferes with your wifi". Boom, gullible customers gone ...
Isn't infrared light way WAY above 2.5GHz----
SHUSH
Just use your toaster....its also 100% efficient.
Funny comment but I was wondering if they are 100% efficient, the threads are glowing and are thereby loosing some of the energy to light. I don't know if I am right?
Fried Mule as long as that light doesn’t escape your house it should be absorbed by nearby items and converted into heat.
Infrared heaters are designed to heat objects (i.e. people) rather than the air hence the glass which is likely infrared transparent. The idea has been around for decades. I tried one many years ago and found it to be ineffective. This just looks like a more schmik version.
I'm still waiting for some IR beamforming heater campaign on kickstart, better powered with AI-optical tracking...
@@wangyeeee The Solar Freaking Roadway of heaters. The real problem with IR heaters is that the results are like being on Mercury. Your front will bake but your rear still freezes.
I don't think this looks like an IR heater at all. The glass would get incredibly hot from the around 1200 degrees C (+/- 300 or so) hot heating elements and touching that would leave half your skin on the glass plate. Also the graphene would absorb a lot of that infrared light and turn it into good old simple heat. Unless you want to heat that as well to glowing red temperatures which in this form factor is essentially like mounting a burning coal brick onto your wall.
alles klar klaus - They say this only gets to 100 degC
@@SirBunghole That's an engineering problem. One easy solution is to simple place another high-power IR emitter on the opposite side of the room that tracks your ass. #ToastyBuns
It doesn't even have handles? Where is the hot part? Where is it safe to grab? If this design isn't a scam, I see many lawsuits.
*For a few hundred more dollars you can get a heater that also makes things out of plastic. Its just a bed for 3d printers but you put on the wall, good idea* .
Actually many of them cost less than this thing!
They DID deliver a lot of hot air.
Mostly farts, though.
Some people back things they want to be feasible, regardless of whether or not it is.
Indeed
You're thinking of the wrong type of radiant heater there Dave, don't forget they use the boilers and pump that water to all of the rooms in the house, loosing plenty of energy in the walls, roof space etc etc. They are far less than 100% efficient when you look at energy into the system vs energy into the room itself.
A 200W infrared heater will also have the subjective appearance of generating more heat than an oil convection heater because it's warming you up rather than the air. Be buggered if I can see what's generating that kind of infra red energy though.
The rest is of course utter BS, but you've at least got to give them that. There's those small grains of truth in there to make the rest sound plausible to the VERY casual glance.
However, gas boilers convert directly from fuel to heat; electric heaters are powered from the grid which has transmission losses and the power is generated by turbines which are either directly powered by fuel or from steam generated in a boiler (yes, I'm aware some countries have high levels of renewable energy, but that's not universal).
Made by people who didn't listen in school physics class
...for people who didn't listen in school physics class
Just went to their page and it says:
"Thank you for the support in the fist 24 hours!"
Looks like they're making a good fist of it!
Technology Connections just did a good video/rant on comparing electric heaters. Reminds me of this rant :)
The glass panels keep the heat trapped by the elements meaning it takes longer to dissipate the heat generated. The heater stays nice and toasty so you only have to run it half the time. Meanwhile the rest of your room freezes over.
Dave! Stop bursting my bubble and my dreams of FREE ENERGY!!! I want to believe!!!
Aliens are more plausible
Use Coulomb law instead of Faraday law and you have it.
Free energy is real! It's just been made illegal. Bypassing your electricity meter is possible, but the government doesn't want you to do it
/s
@@_BangDroid_ You made me laugh.
My first thought when I started to read was that you where a conspiracy/free energy nutcase but then I read the rest and I have to agree with you.
@@_BangDroid_ well yeah, just wait for their power outage notice and tap those incoming cables into a hidden light switch
Stand is an additional $1000.
There was a Distributed Computer company that offered compute nodes as radiators. While its a great idea, I don't think it was executed particularly well. Although they are limited to the type of projects it can work on as high-end networking (e.g. 40, 56 even 100gb per node) is an important part of Super/ Distributed Computers.
PS: Central Heating is common (and essential) in most of Europe. Currently 4c in London. Main reason is because heating with gas is cheaper than electric, and most are combi which also provide hot water. Speaking of efficiency checkout condensing boilers, they actually do recover heat from the steam/ water CREATED from burning hydrocarbons.
To be fair, a radiant heater is different than a convective heater. Most heaters are convective, either forced or passive, where air is heated and then this air moved around the room to heat objects (naturally due to black body effects they emit some infrared, but it's not central as with radiant heaters). Radiant heaters have a big reflector and tend to glow some. They feel pretty weird since the infrared heats your skin and face directly. It sounds like this might be radiant (infrared), so the glass wouldn't be a problem. Radiant heaters can be faster at heating you since they don't have to heat the air and then send that air at your skin, they just send the infrared through the air directly to your skin.
Regarding "heat regulator", I was hoping you'd keep saying thermosta... heat regulator, to mock them.
They claim this is also a (passive) convective heater, which it is not. The glass prevents the air getting back to the actual element. But of course there is some natural room convection
Oil (and water) heater which are seriously common are predominately natural convection also. But any type of heater has a mix of the various forms.
I fully agree... Same comment I did. The question is not about how the heat is produced but how efficiently is it transmitted to the environment. In any case, these guys are overselling their radiators.
Forced is not convective it's forced!
blargg
The biggest radiant heater you’ll encounter is the Sun. I wouldn’t consider that effect to “feel pretty weird”. 🤨
I'm just talking about how a radiant heater feels. I tried one a while back and it was weird to use in a room. Maybe it's expectations. It's like sitting in front of a fireplace or a camp fire (or in the sun, as you say). I don't want that feeling just sitting at the desk. Oil-electric radiator FTW. Quiet and relatively safe due to low surface temperature.
Hey! Maybe in Australia these things didn't get popular, but here infrared heating panels are the subject of tons of websites claiming "super high efficiency heating" and "heat where it's needed". These websites almost always have this "scammy" feel in common. It's all bullshit of course, all you get is a sense of heat if you are in the direct "shine" of the panel, but in reality you just buy a number of low power passive convection heaters (they are typically a few hundred watts at most, each). It's funny that they boast about the infrared part, that it "delivers heat where needed" (your skin), but obviously they just put a thermostat in this, which will measure the air temperature, and thus they have to heat up the air just like any other convective device, and they'll definitely do a shit job at that, considering the lack of a proper heat exchange surface (as opposed to a good old finned radiator)..... This thing is a rather pointless rehashing of an old, and pointless "solution".
Isn't it just a pot warmer mounted on the wall? You could take your soup pot off the stove and let it sit on a horizontal, graphene, glass panel to keep it warm. Great for buffets.
Sure does look a lot like a hot plate..........
Campaign has been suspended! Good job!
Their magic graphene looks like bog standard thermal paste that you smear on heat-sinks.
I think the elements are graphene-ish, but they seems to almost totally focus on the paste. But either way it's bunk.
EEVBlog - Ah, just what I want on my resistive heater - elements made up of a material with incredibly low resistance.
I realise the whole thing is nonsense, but how exactly do they justify that one?
certainly looks like general cpu thermal heat paste. i think someone could even build 1 at home with some heating elements, a controller and 2 plates of glass
the stand might take years of research to perfect tho lol
thermal paste is usually non-conductive
Save 80% on your electricity bill? Thats amazing. I wasn't aware normal heaters are under 20% efficient, especially as the most common efficiency loss is waste due to heating. Is graphene able to break the laws of thermodynamics? Conservation of energy perhaps? They deserve all of the money they have got, this heater isn't just revolutionary - it changes everything we know about physics to date.
Wow now I know how solar roadways melt snow.
I've just reported this kickstarter as missleading.
When they finish this campaign, they should set their sights on stopping the heat death of the universe.
Could you use magic woo-woo graphene as a thermal paste on a heat sink to help transfer heat from your power transistors ?
This is for CPUs, but that's basically what Carbonaut or IC Graphite thermal pads are.
im gonna replace my cpu cooler with tempered glass now.
Run prime95 on an old p4 and you don't need this.... Haha
The creator keeps hammering on this point: "Our graphene compound continues to generate heat when cut from the electrical current."
No it doesn't. If this were the case, the heater would be a major hazard, because it would continue to heat in the absence of current, and whatever exothermic reaction is causing that runaway heat production would inevitably destroy the heater (and the building in which it was placed). That whole argument literally goes against the concept of an electric heater.
It's totally stupid!
Michael Bradley-Robbins not if it’s nuclear! They’ve _clearly_ cracked cold fusion and are using this as a front...
BTW, I checked all of my rooms and can't find any magnetic dust. I guess I live in the wrong kind of house....
It's most definitely Italy magnetic, check inside your PC power supply, it likes to accumulate there.
The co-efficient of performance (COP) of a heater is worked out by comparing kW heat to kW electricity (in terms Watts is used to define two types of energy, electrical and heat). Resistance heating (RH) has a COP of around 0.3. Or that for every 1kW of electricity used approx 0.3kW's heat energy will be produced. A reverse cycle air conditioner uses the "heat of compression" to increase the temperature of a gas (the refrigerant) to do the "work" involved in heating a medium (the refrigerant, the tubes then the air). This is a far more efficient way of imparting heat into a substance than a resistive wire heated using electricity. It is far cheaper (more efficient) to run a compressor and fan windings than it is to use RH. A current model of air conditioner uses 1kW of electrical power to make around 2.5-3.0kW's of heat energy. That's right, 0.3 COP compared to a COP of 3.0 (or more see below) For this reason gas (a similar COP of 30-35%) was phased out of British laundromats to be replaced with reverse cycle heating systems. If you check the "Advance technical specifications" on this current model Daikin AC rang of units, compare DTXF25TVMA: Power Input (Rated): Cool (kW) 0.67 and Heat (kW) 0.78, Rated Capacity: Cool (kW) 2.5 and Heat (kW) 3.0. Coefficient of Performance (COP) is the efficiency ratio of the amount of heating or cooling provided by a heating or cooling unit to the energy consumed by the system. ... Then the COP of the air conditioner would be 2.5 divided by 0.67 = 3.7, essentially almost 4 times more efficient than electrical heating. Watts electricity and Watts heat are easily confused making scams involving them easy to perpetuate. commercial.daikin.com.au/our-product-range/split-system-air-conditioning/dtxf-t
Pff, my edenpure has wheels so I can roll it from one room to the next and save 80% on heating by only heating 10% of the house at a time.
Haha. groundbreaking. Next kickstarter will be one of the graphene panels but you wear it on your back ( + a battery pack), so you can heat yourself directly !!
@@mrlithium69 Now that you mention it, if I'm already radiating heat generated from that 1500 calorie dinner I had earlier, I could conceivably apply a layer of graphene paste to my naked body, don a sweater and some heavy slacks, and turn my thermostat way down. Brilliant!
It's about time these kickstarter sites employed a small panel of scientists and engineers to vet projects before listing them and bar any scam projects that violate the laws of physics.
"Save over 80% on your next heating utility bill" WOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!! I will be very rich!!! UFO tec! :-)
Plug one of these in. Get 5x the heat out. Put boiler and generator next to it. Plug four of these in to generator. etc. Free energy finally achieved!
And be 80% colder. That suffering while freezing would be worth saving 80% on my heating bill. Hell, the colder I get - the more I'll shiver = the less heat I need and the more heat I produce.
You could actually cover all your walls with these things to isolate your room.
Try that with a standard oil filled radiant heater.
I save 100% on my heating bill by living in Florida (never needed a heater). Now the amount of energy dedicated to removing heat (and yes, even in December!), that's not so cheap.
@@markg735
Just drink water and sweat. That's about the cheapest and most efficient cooling system I can think of.
I'm kinda in the field. If you look into best heating system you can have i recommend underfloor heating. It have it's drawbacks (mainly reaction time) but it's best idea we have right now.
You basically change your floor into HUGE radiator, with temperature of ~30 C you get Insane amounts of heat, and if u can use condensing boiler (that have insane efficiency among boilers) and water it's great. Condensing boilers "like" to work on temperatures close to those optimal for underfloor heating. Also Heat pumps are a great alternative for boiler ;) There are also electric underfloor heating systems ;)
Disclaimer: I don't know much about that. But I can tell you what the sellers are telling us about the IR heating elements on sale here in Europe. They say they are so efficient because the feeling in a room is the same at lower temp - than in a room with convection heating. Supposedly they are heating you from the inside and are heating the furniture, and don't heat the air directly. So, in short - with IR radiation heating you should have the same feeling of 'warmth' at a lower room air temperature. And this is basically an IR heater.
This is what I was thinking. Not to defend the numerous incorrect claims in the campaign, but if the primary means of heat transfer is via radiation of IR rather than convection, the heater could give an increased perception of warmth despite lower average room temperatures. So if the goal is to improve comfort rather than raise the room temperature, it could be argued that this unit might create the same perceived warmth as a higher-power convection-based heater would produce by heating the air. The effect could be especially pronounced in drafty/poorly insulated rooms where warm air from a predominantly convective heater would be diluted by ingress of cold air, whereas radiated IR would be directly incident on the people in the room, giving the perception of warmer temperatures.
But the trouble is that their measurements are based on air temperature in the room. They explicitly say that their system is better because it gets the air 1m off the ground next to their unit hotter than a conventional radiator gets a thermometer lying on the floor. But... if they used the same thermometer for both tests the results would not favour their system. It would either use the same amount of power, or heat the room less. Their silly "test" is designed to obscure that problem.
@@mozismobile well they say that. but thermostats also get effected by Radiant heating. so they might read a false values aswell.
Yeah, Europe is full of scammers trying to sell IR heaters with exorbitant claims. Truth is, they're about as comfortable as sitting in front of a campfire - your face is warm, while your back is cold. And if you have to get up and move around the room, you're all cold. My ancestors didn't pillage and enslave the global South for me to have to deal with that shit.
14:35 - "This not rocket science!"
And that may be the problem, as they explicitly say they did hire rocket scientist. :-)
Excuse me people. How would it be possible to reduce your heating bill with a more efficient heater when the problem of heating your house is caused by heat escaping your house.
Thats not the part of the claim thats being doubted. The issue is the conversion factor of electrical watts to BTU's of heat.
It's not a more efficient heater. In fact with a lossy house it has *less* system efficiency in terms of temperature rise than a larger capacity radiator.
mrlithium
@ 0:09 into the video. If the manufacturer claims a saving of 80% on your utility bill, the manufacturer obviously doesn't understand where heat loss occurs. The loss doesn't occur in the conversion process. but in the heat loss through walls, doors, windows etc. If you don't believe me open your doors and windows in the middle of winter and watch your electric bill go up. As Dave points out, electric conversion to heat is 100%. On a more fundamental understanding, SOLUS COULDN'T EVEN IDENTIFY THE CAUSE OF HEAT LOSS CORRECTLY. THEY BLAME IT ON THE HEATER, NOT THE HOUSE. If your house was PERFECTLY insulated, you wouldn't need a heater. Your body would generate enough heat to keep it warm.
Ooooh, I have a brand new Kickstarter idea for a super-high efficiency heater - it runs outside, hunts down all your escaping heat, absorbs it, and brings it all back in...! Sure to be over-funded, this one...
Attila Asztalos
I know your idea sounds ridiculous, but in a simplified form, that's generally how a heat pump works. In effect, it cools down the outside to heat the inside.
The one aspect of graphene that I didn't notice you mention is that the extreme thermal conductivity is directional and perpendicular to the atomic matrix. If the graphene were to be applied in a paste then the arrangement of the graphene matrix would be random and therefore would have a random thermal conductivity.
Ten hours ago, Kickstarter suspended this project.
Just wait, they will relaunch it as a solar panel to collect drinking water out of thin air.
Perhaps what they're claiming is that the emissivity of their heater is highly efficient (close to perfect blackbody). The consumer units you were comparing to are not particular good 'radiators', they're convective heaters. A white dimplex oil heater only radiates about 15 - 20% of it's energy. So the claim that those other consumer goods is the same is a little misleading. The glass is not being used as a conductive substrate, it's being used in a transmissive mode. But at the end of the day you're right, a Watt is a Watt. I think it's important to explain conductive, convective and radiated energy as they're very different; radiated energy dump from a black body is X^2 faster than passive convective. A good example is when you go to Bunnings in winter and they have I.R. heaters near the checkouts - They're radiating energy into an infinite space, but you still feel warm and they're doing that by not using infinite BTU's. It's the mechanism of energy delivery that appears to be their "claim to fame".
The idea is selling by the design , if this thing achieve the infrared spectrum to deliver heat not a bad idea and glass is not an issue , but my doubt is about that specific point , how you deliver infrared waves trough a tick layer of graphene , it's possible ? , the infrared radiator's on the market emits light and have some kind of deflector to do their job , so if this thing pretends to emit infrared radiation and is not glowing red at least , how achieve that ? , probably is not capable to do that i guess . And the "pulsing" can be achieved by a simple diode , but this device have not thermal inertia like the oil heater .
The graphene is the black body radiator - Regular glass is reasonably transparent to long wave I.R.
We do have water radiating heaters here in Australia. There are mainly used in hospitals where water heaters flow through pipes to heat the air passing through.
I wonder what other well-understood technology is ripe for making 10 times more expensive,
Apple has this market mostly cornered.
@@markg735 hahahahaha. And aimed at the same sort of customers !!!
the only waterbased heaters we have in europe are central heating heaters using boilers or high efficience central heaterrs.. they use gas burners to heat the water and go though pipes through your house to the radiators.. there are no electric waterheaters here as far as i know
But it looks nice, and contains Graphene - it must be good =D Kickstarter really is a way for people to scam people too easily...
The oxide would only momentarily delay output. The temperature gradient across the oxide layer would grow until it is high enough for sufficient heat to flow to reach equilibrium with the power coming in. When the power source is removed, the high temperature inside the oxide would bleed off through the oxide, getting back that heat collected during the delay at startup, and everything equals out.
seems like normal IR heater, they sell this crap for 5 bucks here.
Those oil heaters are more convection heaters then radiators, the ones with an incandescent element that have a reflector behind it (like a space heater, without a fan, more or less). Tehnicaly, the in floor heating is the most efficient, not electrically, but in terms of deliveing the heat in a way that it seeps out slower before getting where you want it the most. Want insane heating efficiency? Thick insulation, double doors, 3 sheet glass windows... basically make sure the least ammount of heat escapes the house, so u can keep your desired temperature with the least ammount of energy input.
I think Dave is being overly critical. If they combined it with solar panels, you'll get free heating all summer! 🤘
...just like you would if you combined any bog-standard radiant heater with solar panels.
Well done Gareth. Love your cynicism.
To Mr 8 Bits....note the word SUMMER hahahaa
@@gs425 I didn't see that. I got got
I hope they hire Stefan Etienne from the Verge to apply that thermal paste. That job will show his skills are REALLY useful in this world...
I have heavily backed this wonderful and revolutionary heater. I understand that you guys are predigest and bigoted purely because you believe in facts and figures and not the feelings of a new future.
You are outdated in your scientific approach to NEW ideas and that is why my feelings that this is the future of heating tech will be the future.
Mrs EEVblog said I have to work on my feelings...
@@EEVblog HEHE
I hope I'm not making fresh popcorn in vain, I do enjoy a good r/woosh too 😂
Sorry to hear you have backed this. Still trying to understand how proving / disproving using physics and scientific principles is outdated. After all, doesn't the KS campaign do the same thing? If by "feelings of a new future," you mean misleading people and using statistics that contradict themselves, then you may be happy to learn that this isn't the future... this exists now and, unfortunately, is gaining in popularity. As for "predigest and bigoted", yeah, I guess you could say I'm "scam-a-phobic."
@@mrmagoo4547 100% true, Mr Magoo
Love Scam-a-phobic. Thanks for the brilliant comment.