Honestly, I’ve done enough research to know that B4 is not the route for me. I got into accounting to bring home a steady paycheck. I have a wife and kid on the way. I want to be able to experience life.
This past year I've made the biggest sacrifices and it has been rough! Kids are a game changer, one is manageable but the second was the tipping point for me and only because I'm the kind of parent who wants to be involved. You've done your diligence though so you'll do well. Exciting times for you 🙂
As a manager myself, I can't believe some managers would send team emails like that. Like even if the long hours are necessary and inevitable, there are ways to communicate that expectation in a motivating and encouraging way. Maybe empasizing the exciting opportunity this project represents, highlight the potential achievement/learning opportunity for the team and most importantly show appreciation upfront. Instead of putting in a way like "hey you are supposed to work overtime and on weekend so do it" it should acknowledge the additional time commitment people are putting in and really show appreciation rather than taking it for granted. No one wants to work long hours but having a supporting team and manager would make the experience a lot less painful. People don't just leave because of the long hours, they leave because they are putting in long hours in an inefficient or toxic environment and not being appreciated or recognized for their efforts.
Yea it actually pains me to admit that I know a few senior folk who would send messages like that. Completely out of line. 100% agree, people aren't walking into these roles expecting a walk in the park and my fondest memories come from projects where the working environment was super intense BUT we had team leads who were rolling up their sleeves, engaging everyone down to the intern and doing everything they could to make it 'less sucky'. If I've learnt anything over the years it's that a bad manager can make even the easiest of projects unbearable and the reverse holds true
I disagree with that last point. If I'm being asked to work long hours without getting paid for anything outside of 9-5, I don't care how much appreciation/recognition I'm getting. At some point you just have to realise, "sure I'm appreciated but I'm being played now fr". I don't care how much recognition or appreciation I get, I wouldn't let myself be clowned in that way.
@@Bladebreak3r its the only reason why I do my current job. If I don't qualify for OT and don't get a decent bonus at the end of the year i'd just leave. We ain't slaves....pay us properly for the work
Hey Yusuf, I stumbled across your channel accidently through the algorithm but this video is exactly what I needed to reaffirm my beliefs of the Big 4 and IT service sector. I have personally faced all the challenges that you mentioned in my 2 years at LTI as a IT engineer and I can concur to that 100%. Besides your working preferences is nearly as similar to mine which makes it very difficult to survive and stay content with the job in such service industry with really toxic work environments where client ass-kissing is the norm and they literally pay peanuts .There is no peace of mind in these sort of companies even if the pay is good. As Paulo Coelho says "Any thing that costs you your peace is too expensive" and since the day I resigned from the company I have regained my freedom back and haven't felt an ounce of regret . It was the best decision I made and the beautiful smile is back on my face :)Many Thanks for the video man .Peace!
Hey Saif - comments like this really catch me off guard (in a good way!) 🙂 that's a brilliant quote and one that I agree with but with one minor tweak...I feel we need to challenge our state of 'peace' from time to time with periods of uncertainty/challenge in order for us to grow. Of course we need to be conscious of both mental and physical health during this time. Thanks to the algorithm for helping you stumble across this video and keep smiling chief ✊🏾
It's so interesting that during my research for this career I came across so many consultant TH-camrs who hyped up the life, and then after a few months passed they'd post how they quit/left. Just goes to show in-depth research is important cause if I just watched the videos that showed they were happy then I would still believe I wanted this career. Thanks for videos like yours!
Hey Emily! I'm glad you found this valuable - the aim for me has always been to share the things that aren't readily available because like you said, the internet is saturated with 'what you want to hear'. All the best in your search for the career that is right for you!
Sadly, I can relate to a lot of what you said. Got into this journey last year with naivety. Some persons love what they do but personally no big brand or pay should cost me my health, my relationship, my friendships. I was practically breathing and living work. Had to ask to be dropped off some engagements. Planning my exit to get my masters and do what my passions align with.
Hey Wendy! On the bright side, you've come to this realisation after a short period of suffering. I don't know how anyone can love doing 'this' day in day out without having the most shallow perspective. But alas I could be the crazy person. Sincerely hope it works out for you 🙂
Politics.... negative competition, drinking at the pub every day with colleagues, gossiping about colleagues, pretense, hypocritical work culture in Western companies and countries is why the great resignation is here. Everything else....tight deadlines, demanding clients, overwork pale in comparison. So I agree that politics is a problem for some employees but I think it eventually comes back to bite companies in the ....when good hard working honest and dedicated employees quit.
Nice to hear from another Aussie. I interned in big 4 audit and it was honestly horrible. I was asked to work weekends (which I openly refused to do) because they didn’t put enough staff on one of the clients. Most of the grads were not vacationers before (go figure) and apparently from the previous group of interns, less than 30% accepted their grad offers. That says it all really. I’m starting a grad career in industry (with a $15k salary bump and actual work life balance) and I couldn’t be more excited. Thanks for the vid!
Hello comrade 🙂 Wow less than 30% accepting grad offers speaks for itself! So glad you made the quick pivot to industry, hope it all works out for you!
The worst are managers who get pissed when you ask questions that are technical. I am sorry if you don't know the answer, but that gives you no right to bite my head off...
You are spot on....teaching others is a big part of a seniors/managers role. The stigma around asking 'stupid questions' is a real barrier for growth. It plagued me early on until I got to a point where I didn't care what others thought and that included managers because I'd seen enough oxygen thieves to conclude if I was unsure about something then chances were someone else in the room wasn't sure either
You couldn't have said it better Yusuf. On top of that there's also a "It is what it is " rule to the culture and a "If you want to walk, walk vibe". Guess paying the bills keeps us going.
Yes! Seems the only real advantage is we could go back and forth for hours with depressing anecdotes…great conversation 😅 100% and then you’re constantly facing the ‘oh but I’m comfortable’ feels + your ethnic parents guilt tripping you into prolonging the suffering.
Big4 firms are meant to breed strong Accounting leaders. It will weed out those who can't cut the mustard. With so much accounting irregularities going on out there in the corporate world, it needs people who are firm, and who have the strong mentality to drill deep down into submitted workpapers and financials to find things. Whenever I hear/see companies all of a sudden going bankrupt, my first question is: "where were the auditors ?" It takes a span of several months for companies to go bankrupt and it takes sharp auditors to spot and question irregularities early on. When people leave their Big4 firms as Senior Manager, their first position will most likely be as a Controller with another company. Hopefully they will bring that Big4 integrity with them into the company. Personally speaking, all of the companies I've worked in the last 10-15 years have only hired Big4 background people to be their Controllers or VP Accounting/Finance.
I worked as a software engineer for the past few years and recently joined a new company. Main reason being I was un happy with the working hours, which gave me little time for myself. This new company is much more layer back and I feel much more productive and content with my work life balance. Next January they are trailing out 4 day work weeks with no cut to pay!
Nice move!! 4 day work weeks sound like a game changer, I'd jump on an opportunity to do 10 hours a day and have 3 days off every week. Keen to hear how that works out 🙂
The Big 4 culture sucks you into work hours that are too long for you to have a life outside of work. And the pressure and competitiveness makes colleagues treacherous and simply just pains in the arse. I don’t think it’s worth it. There is also a certain haughtiness and cruelty that some people working there can have.
I'm currently thinking bout leaving my job as well. I feel like I'm not good enough for the position, long hours, sometimes work on weekends and I dont see it slowing down soon. But most importantly I feel so stressed and anxious every morning. I even started thinking negative thoughts. I dont know what to do
@Xen0gears515 awh I hear you today I have to decide wlbetween a small company and my intern company ( EY). I have been an intern at EY for 8 months and had a good impression of what would await me there. A lot of days with your coworkers and although I like certain coworkers it can be quiet annoying to spend my whole day with them haha
Yes I can relate as well I'm at Analyst position in audit department in India i work for like 12 hrs or 13 hrs a day but I can only charge about 8 hours and for working these much hours i only get 300$ of money both working on weekends and on public holidays as well. And for working these much i didn't even get any reward or recognition which is why I feel like leaving this organisation and searching for another company.
Hey Tag, that sounds tough and I know the feeling. Thanklessly overworking yourself is pretty common but take comfort in that you should have some pretty good exit opportunities when you decide the time is right. Best of luck
Same here working as an auditor in a firm. You can only charge 8 hrs even if you you worked on it for more than 12 hrs because that's on the budgeted hrs, seems unfair. They don't even recognize the delay caused by the engagement teams themselves. The hrs of waiting. And all that just because of the KPI you have to deal with. Exhausting
my take based on working in consulting for 7 years. pros; you get great exposure to many different companies / sectors. you learn and develop lots of skills including analysis and dealing with clients. cons; its a bit of a pyramid scheme, where you are told that if you work to death, sacrifice personal life, in some instances (tell the small lies to win bids), and put up with some of the toxic environment with backstabbing colleagues, favouritism (its run by partners, and the partners are like little kings and queens, and if they like you you rise if not, no chance). you can feel like a sellable resource, when the resourcing teams try and sell you for jobs (they act almost like pimps i felt just selling me to jobs sometimes without even asking me). for some its a great life, and it suits their personality and temperament. but i got tired of being sold to different clients as the 'expert' on something i knew little about, just because i was on the bench. i also got tired of being under pressure to deliver to unexpected deadlines that the partner had promised, working with lots of juniors who were from disparate backgrounds, emotional states, training and personal goals, to deliver something that was of high quality. sometimes there was no respect from the juniors to those below partners, as they did not see you as important in their career growth. so if you were in the middle between grad and partner, you sometimes got no respect from those above, nor from those below. but again its is very team dependant. if you are in a good team it can really be great. but most people did not want to kill themselves to be partner, and were looking to leave and join a firm in industry as a 'head of' type role.
It's amazing/disgusting what big corporate can get away with. Most contracts will say 'you're required to work base hours + a reasonable amount more to complete all of your work'. How much is reasonable? How long is a piece of string 🤔
@@Yusuf-zm4gn yup. I work at an inv.bank as risk management. While my position is a more humane position with reasonable work hour, my friends at Inv.banking division work like you or maybe even worse. They arent living as humans. Our contract is "8 hrs per day work plus RESPONSIBILITY with clients". I'm so glad as a middle office guy, I have no client at all. But I'll be transfered to retail division next year and though it's nowhere as tough as IB division, the work hour still long. It'd give me a lot of knowledge and experience, but hopefully the workload wont be so bad. I'm wondering what's the exit route and opportunities after this if I dont wanna work at an inv.bank anymore...
@@warcatbattalion I wouldn't stress - IB's in general are well regarded and risk management is a common function in the corporate world. You can move into an industry role in say Banking, Government, Retail, Mining etc. The key is making sure you're not being overworked for extended periods of time. Having clients gives you great exposure and forces you to pick up certain skills that back/middle office operations don't require as much. My biggest learning is if you're not enjoying your role, look for a move internally and then externally. No reason to stay miserable, especially with your IB background there will be no issues
I experienced all of these situations in my first 3 years at Deloitte Consulting. had to fucking run and escape for my life. 1. set up to fail then blamed for failing 2. colleagues that have your back for half a year just to throw u under the bus during end of year reviews 3. escalation threats, shouting managers 4. asked for help during a project but manager asked me to search answers on wikipage on google. 5. no work life boundaries. working overtime is expected and default culture 6. shifting goal posts every year, got great client feedback and excellent performance reviews maxed out scores but never got promoted. (excluding the year where review got sabotaged by peers) 7. 0 salary raise company wide when covid broke out 8. heavily under-resourced projects with unrealistic timelines 9. half the team left in a year.
3:50 that screenshot was happened in hk, when that screenshot got leaked it cause a massive controversy in hk. Also, one of my friends used to work at ey and knows the manager that sent the email, he said the manager should not send an email or leave the schedule in black and white although it’s common for them to have such schedule
Glad that my friend resigned a few months ago and get a new job that does not need to work overtime. I used to work as an esg consultant, it was like hell to me and i glad that I resigned.
Don't start working at a big firm, start working for other companies to gain experience, then work for another consulting firm and only apply at the big 4 when you have enough experience to negotiate! I've had 2 of them approach me so far and I won't go below $115K. Gain experience and know your worth!
@@Yusuf-zm4gn anytime someone in my friend circle mentions having to work late, i suggest they change or switch jobs. life is too short to work long hours.
Consulting doesn't sound so fun... I'm in audit at pwc and while I'm on probably the best possible client in terms of work life balance which has enough work to occupy 90% of my time, it's nothing like your experience. Busy season is 65h/week for five or six weeks, and the rest of the year is 40h. Granted the audit pay scale isn't as generous as consulting.
I spent 2.5 years at PwC and got my CPA while at PwC. I made very little and worked alot. But the brand power alone is worth it. The big 4 brand is superior to any other accounting firm. Full stop.
Hi Yusuf, I’m currently studying a Bachelor of Business (People Management) at Deakin University in Melbourne. I’m curious as to what exposure will be required to get into Change Management consulting or Human Capital Consulting as a graduate? What experiences and skills do consultancy firms like Deloitte look for? What does the interview process entail and are questions more behavioural or case study breakdowns? I would love to pick your brain about the industry and learn from your insights
Hey! I'll preface this response with I'm not overly familiar with that division of consulting but grad level recruitment is fairly consistent. In terms of exposure that is a mandatory requirement, nothing really. Most graduates will receive offers with just their university credentials and a part time employment history of sorts. Some will have involvement in university societies and the smaller minority will have some relevant experience from boutique/small family run consultancies completing research/BD type work. It's definitely ideal to have a loaded CV but there is no real expectation by professional services firms at the grad level In regards to the skills they look for - the piece of advice I give to people at this stage is you really need to impress upon the interviewers how much of a good cultural/team fit you will be. There is no real expectation that you come loaded with technical ability. Grads are a big component of the teams engine room so they like people who come with a can do attitude (no is a forbidden word at the grad level!), are able to adapt quickly (you'll go from project to project crossing over industries while you're at it) and can build rapport easily (you'll work with a raft of internal and external stakeholders from day dot). Really showcase your 'human' side in the interview but definitely show off any technical knowledge as well. The interview process is geared towards the behavioural side of things for the reasons I mentioned above. There are some very light case studies that you might solve as a group as part of an assessment centre or individually as part of a one-on-one interview. All the best with the interview process 🙂
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Thank you. I appreciate the detailed response. Hope to speak with you again, soon. Wish you the best, and I’ll be looking forward to all future content.
Hey Yusuf. Did you just "consider quitting" or "quit" it? Please try to be specific. If you are still in, then there must be a good reason why it outweighed these negatives. Cheers.
Hey Ke - At the time of making this video, I was still working at Deloitte. I have quit now though 🙂 there's definitely a point in the early years where the pros outweigh the cons! Best to get all the learnings up front and when you reach the point of diminishing returns then you leave
Hi would love to know out of interest, which country did you work in, i get it was Big 4, which is generally hard, but sometimes work culture in particular countries are generally rougher.
big 4 applications are opening up now Australia wide. I noticed that you have a background in engineering like me. The work you done during most of your career was mainly consultancy kind of work. How were you able to find an engineering role elsewhere without relevant engineering experience and with only consultancy experience?
Hi Yusuf, do you have any idea what it's like working in the IT department of the Big 4? I was offered a role at KPMG which pays a lot lower than my current job and wondering if it's the right choice for me.
Packing my bags and flying to Europe as soon as borders open 😂 unpaid over time is the norm and extends beyond big 4 world unfortunately....you can negotiate a higher salary upfront but haven't heard of anyone striking up a paid overtime agreement
@@Yusuf-zm4gn I hope unionization comes back to US and gets introduced in Asia too. I don't think it is entitlement culture to have transparent rules on how overtime is handled. Great video, thanks for spreading the word
Hello Mr. Yusuf. I was searching about the work experience in the BIG 4 companies and I came across your video. Your video was very insightful but I have some questions about cybersecurity consulting. May I connect with you to clear my doubts?
Salam! I really enjoy watching your content and was wondering if there is anyway we could connect? Consulting seems super exciting but also a bit confusing and I would appreciate any help! Thanks!
Son of a gun dont worry bro nothing will happen please help other people to get into such situation and suffer please help on the same on new generation
Hi yusuf, this is salman.. i have a good opportunity in another company with a good work life balance. And also i have opportunity in Deloitte, which is best bro. I need good work life balance. How hell is Deloitte. I think we can't spend time with family, praying. Pls say bro
Hi Salman, what level is your offer with Deloitte? While the work life balance will be better at the other company, Deloitte will strengthen your resume and you don't have to stay for too long. This decision should be made based on your personal priorities
@@salmanfaries3064 Nice! I spent a good amount of time in the RPA space. At the analyst level, I'd be in favour of joining Deloitte and building yourself a good foundation. You can definitely make time for prayer and other activities. Once you've done your time, you'll have plenty of opportunities to move into industry roles or other companies where the pay will be higher and the workload won't be as much
The travel isn't too bad and good to get out of your system early (the status credits are a great bonus haha). It only became a probably for me when I had family commitments 😆
Short answer no it’s not worth it same way with IB just don’t do it. Stress is so not worth it and all that extra cash that is not extra ie all the long unpaid hours you will spend in more liquor or cigarettes or other vices that you would’ve otherwise not spent had you not had all that stress. Ultimately you end up harming yourself.
@@420nabzy glad I could help but don't write it off based on my thoughts alone - if you can afford to 'compromise' at this point in your life then you stand to gain a lot from working there 🙂
Actually I'm having 11+ yrs of experience and already a manager. Work life balance is prime importance to me, hence gonna choose anything but Deloitte 😀
Hey Tyson! Sorry for the slow response....not necessarily, some jobs have fairly predictable seasonal patterns, others are consistent year round and the rest is random busy seasons throughout the year
Been thinking of joining deloitte in their supply chain or analytics team.... like you been thinking of that ROI.... I don't mind working long hours ideal I think 7am to 8 or 9pm I'm cool with but getting to fly and chill on my weekends... hate politics, don't mind being social and network but my DNA doesn't allow me to kiss ass and be fake..... I would love to get your advice and ask you some questions on my idealogy vs reality... is there a way I can contact you to ask more questions
Hey Andrea - I wouldn't say there's a limit having worked with junior consultants who were in their 40s/50s. Consultants who start in their early 20s and build a solid foundation early on are on the fast track. They face minimal hurdles by way of other commitments and can embrace the long hours. On the flip side someone coming into consulting with a relevant industry background or something completely left field (I've worked with ex marine biologists!) can also do really well. If you're joining consulting with say a strong background in health, you may start in a junior position but find yourself as a senior manager/director within 5-7 years given your strong subject matter expertise. If your goal is to become a damn good problem solver, work with some bright minds and you're not averse to hard work then age shouldn't be a factor at all in your decision 🙂
@@anzalkhan4869 for sure! Finance qualifications open many doors...most companies turning over more than a few million dollars will have a financial planning function which would have reasonable hours at the analyst levels. Salary would be circa 60-80k (in Australia at least). You could also join the big local banks in just about any of their functions. Plenty of opportunities 🙂
If you have a problem with long hours and collegues do not go to law school. What you describe is a vacation for many professionals. You really have it better than you think.
Hey Aya, think you missed the intent of this one. I'm the last person to glorify long hours but at the same time I don't think too many others have it worse than 15+ hour days 6-7 days a week. Everyone should have a problem with long hours, period. Yes they're a necessary evil from time to time but never a consistent experience. What I described shouldn't be a vacation for anyone unless you're a real masochist
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Lawyers, Bussiness owners and Doctors work long hours all the time. I used to have to work 80 hours a week and on holidays. Nurses too. You really don't know. Anytime you make over 6 figures expect to have to work many hours unless you work for the federal government . The federal government is the only place where people make over 100,000 to 200,000 thousand and only work 40hrs.
@@FlightX101 yes!! The older I get, the easier it becomes to take the high road 😅 only thing I’ll add is there are strict regulations that limit working hours of health professionals for obvious reasons. On the flip side we don’t have regulations/policies in our corner but rather the level of humanity of your superiors…
Hey yusuf, i need your opinion or infact anyone else who has experience with big 4 please help me here. I recently have one offer from EY and i have to join in a month. I will be working in Technology Consulting vertical. I am currently working in Cybersecurity on the technical side. Is it really true that the work life balance is not good over here, i am asking because i have a problem in my right eye and i cannot see anything without lenses. I try my best to bring a balance between my work life and my personal life (say about my health). Would really appreciate your response.
Hey! How many hours a day are you currently working in your cyber security role? What level is the offer from EY? In your situation, I would be transparent about the challenge with your right eye and come up with a suitable working arrangement with your team. Tech consulting and cyber in my experience provide more reasonable working hours
@@Yusuf-zm4gn I currently work in a 9 hours on daily basis and barely we have to stretch it in a month. I have been offered a consultant level designation / role at EY.
@@wayner1098 at the consultant level, you can expect to work 1-2 hours more than your current working hours on average. My two cents would be there's no harm in taking on the opportunity and testing to see if it's right for you. Beyond your working relationship with your current employer, you don't have much to lose and stand to gain an insight into professional services, a strong network and you will increase your skill set/value proposition. Always best to take risks early in your career in pursuit of the perfect role Good luck!
You forgot about lying on your hours to say 40 hours when really it’s 60
Honestly, I’ve done enough research to know that B4 is not the route for me. I got into accounting to bring home a steady paycheck. I have a wife and kid on the way. I want to be able to experience life.
This past year I've made the biggest sacrifices and it has been rough! Kids are a game changer, one is manageable but the second was the tipping point for me and only because I'm the kind of parent who wants to be involved. You've done your diligence though so you'll do well. Exciting times for you 🙂
Same!
As a manager myself, I can't believe some managers would send team emails like that. Like even if the long hours are necessary and inevitable, there are ways to communicate that expectation in a motivating and encouraging way. Maybe empasizing the exciting opportunity this project represents, highlight the potential achievement/learning opportunity for the team and most importantly show appreciation upfront. Instead of putting in a way like "hey you are supposed to work overtime and on weekend so do it" it should acknowledge the additional time commitment people are putting in and really show appreciation rather than taking it for granted. No one wants to work long hours but having a supporting team and manager would make the experience a lot less painful. People don't just leave because of the long hours, they leave because they are putting in long hours in an inefficient or toxic environment and not being appreciated or recognized for their efforts.
Yea it actually pains me to admit that I know a few senior folk who would send messages like that. Completely out of line. 100% agree, people aren't walking into these roles expecting a walk in the park and my fondest memories come from projects where the working environment was super intense BUT we had team leads who were rolling up their sleeves, engaging everyone down to the intern and doing everything they could to make it 'less sucky'. If I've learnt anything over the years it's that a bad manager can make even the easiest of projects unbearable and the reverse holds true
Excellent comment . I would never write a self incriminating email like that.
I disagree with that last point. If I'm being asked to work long hours without getting paid for anything outside of 9-5, I don't care how much appreciation/recognition I'm getting. At some point you just have to realise, "sure I'm appreciated but I'm being played now fr". I don't care how much recognition or appreciation I get, I wouldn't let myself be clowned in that way.
LOL....what kind of email was that xD.
@@Bladebreak3r its the only reason why I do my current job. If I don't qualify for OT and don't get a decent bonus at the end of the year i'd just leave. We ain't slaves....pay us properly for the work
Hey Yusuf, I stumbled across your channel accidently through the algorithm but this video is exactly what I needed to reaffirm my beliefs of the Big 4 and IT service sector. I have personally faced all the challenges that you mentioned in my 2 years at LTI as a IT engineer and I can concur to that 100%. Besides your working preferences is nearly as similar to mine which makes it very difficult to survive and stay content with the job in such service industry with really toxic work environments where client ass-kissing is the norm and they literally pay peanuts .There is no peace of mind in these sort of companies even if the pay is good. As Paulo Coelho says "Any thing that costs you your peace is too expensive" and since the day I resigned from the company I have regained my freedom back and haven't felt an ounce of regret . It was the best decision I made and the beautiful smile is back on my face :)Many Thanks for the video man .Peace!
Hey Saif - comments like this really catch me off guard (in a good way!) 🙂 that's a brilliant quote and one that I agree with but with one minor tweak...I feel we need to challenge our state of 'peace' from time to time with periods of uncertainty/challenge in order for us to grow. Of course we need to be conscious of both mental and physical health during this time. Thanks to the algorithm for helping you stumble across this video and keep smiling chief ✊🏾
It's so interesting that during my research for this career I came across so many consultant TH-camrs who hyped up the life, and then after a few months passed they'd post how they quit/left. Just goes to show in-depth research is important cause if I just watched the videos that showed they were happy then I would still believe I wanted this career. Thanks for videos like yours!
Hey Emily! I'm glad you found this valuable - the aim for me has always been to share the things that aren't readily available because like you said, the internet is saturated with 'what you want to hear'. All the best in your search for the career that is right for you!
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Thank you!
Sadly, I can relate to a lot of what you said. Got into this journey last year with naivety. Some persons love what they do but personally no big brand or pay should cost me my health, my relationship, my friendships. I was practically breathing and living work. Had to ask to be dropped off some engagements. Planning my exit to get my masters and do what my passions align with.
Hey Wendy! On the bright side, you've come to this realisation after a short period of suffering. I don't know how anyone can love doing 'this' day in day out without having the most shallow perspective. But alas I could be the crazy person. Sincerely hope it works out for you 🙂
@@Yusuf-zm4gn thank you
Oh hope things are better for you now. What did you get your masters in?
Politics.... negative competition, drinking at the pub every day with colleagues, gossiping about colleagues, pretense, hypocritical work culture in Western companies and countries is why the great resignation is here. Everything else....tight deadlines, demanding clients, overwork pale in comparison. So I agree that politics is a problem for some employees but I think it eventually comes back to bite companies in the ....when good hard working honest and dedicated employees quit.
Nice to hear from another Aussie. I interned in big 4 audit and it was honestly horrible. I was asked to work weekends (which I openly refused to do) because they didn’t put enough staff on one of the clients.
Most of the grads were not vacationers before (go figure) and apparently from the previous group of interns, less than 30% accepted their grad offers. That says it all really.
I’m starting a grad career in industry (with a $15k salary bump and actual work life balance) and I couldn’t be more excited. Thanks for the vid!
Hello comrade 🙂
Wow less than 30% accepting grad offers speaks for itself! So glad you made the quick pivot to industry, hope it all works out for you!
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Cheers mate, you too!
@@Yusuf-zm4gn I'm part of the 70% who was an intern and will not be accepting the offer.
where are you working now mate?
Very well put together. I can relate to the long hours and minimum sleep especially in my early years at IBM.
Thank you Athar! Hopefully the long hours and minimal sleep haven't persisted 😴
The worst are managers who get pissed when you ask questions that are technical. I am sorry if you don't know the answer, but that gives you no right to bite my head off...
You are spot on....teaching others is a big part of a seniors/managers role. The stigma around asking 'stupid questions' is a real barrier for growth. It plagued me early on until I got to a point where I didn't care what others thought and that included managers because I'd seen enough oxygen thieves to conclude if I was unsure about something then chances were someone else in the room wasn't sure either
When your managers doesn’t know any IAS’s or IFRS’s nor any auditing standards.
🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
You couldn't have said it better Yusuf. On top of that there's also a "It is what it is " rule to the culture and a "If you want to walk, walk vibe". Guess paying the bills keeps us going.
Yes! Seems the only real advantage is we could go back and forth for hours with depressing anecdotes…great conversation 😅
100% and then you’re constantly facing the ‘oh but I’m comfortable’ feels + your ethnic parents guilt tripping you into prolonging the suffering.
Big4 firms are meant to breed strong Accounting leaders. It will weed out those who can't cut the mustard. With so much accounting irregularities going on out there in the corporate world, it needs people who are firm, and who have the strong mentality to drill deep down into submitted workpapers and financials to find things. Whenever I hear/see companies all of a sudden going bankrupt, my first question is: "where were the auditors ?" It takes a span of several months for companies to go bankrupt and it takes sharp auditors to spot and question irregularities early on. When people leave their Big4 firms as Senior Manager, their first position will most likely be as a Controller with another company. Hopefully they will bring that Big4 integrity with them into the company. Personally speaking, all of the companies I've worked in the last 10-15 years have only hired Big4 background people to be their Controllers or VP Accounting/Finance.
I worked as a software engineer for the past few years and recently joined a new company. Main reason being I was un happy with the working hours, which gave me little time for myself. This new company is much more layer back and I feel much more productive and content with my work life balance. Next January they are trailing out 4 day work weeks with no cut to pay!
Nice move!! 4 day work weeks sound like a game changer, I'd jump on an opportunity to do 10 hours a day and have 3 days off every week. Keen to hear how that works out 🙂
Can I know which company you're currently working in?
@@Dara05 could be bolt ; an e-commerce company
The Big 4 culture sucks you into work hours that are too long for you to have a life outside of work. And the pressure and competitiveness makes colleagues treacherous and simply just pains in the arse. I don’t think it’s worth it. There is also a certain haughtiness and cruelty that some people working there can have.
Sounds like someone with first hand experience? 🥲
I agree with you. It drains your joy working in big 4. I would not recommend under any circumstances. It will eventually give you health issues
I'm currently thinking bout leaving my job as well. I feel like I'm not good enough for the position, long hours, sometimes work on weekends and I dont see it slowing down soon. But most importantly I feel so stressed and anxious every morning. I even started thinking negative thoughts. I dont know what to do
@Xen0gears515 awh I hear you today I have to decide wlbetween a small company and my intern company ( EY). I have been an intern at EY for 8 months and had a good impression of what would await me there. A lot of days with your coworkers and although I like certain coworkers it can be quiet annoying to spend my whole day with them haha
I really think it depends on your project, manager, team, and if you're deloitte, talent model.
Damn I love this video of your Yusuf! You are a honorable man, not afraid to speak the truth.
You're too kind! You can sugar coat the truth, tread on eggshells all you want but there's no benefit to living in a false reality 🙃
Great video. Your insight really helped put things in perspective for someone coming into the consulting world.
Glad you found it useful Tim! All the best as you embark on this next chapter 🙌🏾
He is not lying. I've worked for both EY and KPMG and it's all true. Don't forget how disrespectful the Partners and managers can be.
Yes I can relate as well I'm at Analyst position in audit department in India i work for like 12 hrs or 13 hrs a day but I can only charge about 8 hours and for working these much hours i only get 300$ of money both working on weekends and on public holidays as well. And for working these much i didn't even get any reward or recognition which is why I feel like leaving this organisation and searching for another company.
Hey Tag, that sounds tough and I know the feeling. Thanklessly overworking yourself is pretty common but take comfort in that you should have some pretty good exit opportunities when you decide the time is right. Best of luck
Same here working as an auditor in a firm. You can only charge 8 hrs even if you you worked on it for more than 12 hrs because that's on the budgeted hrs, seems unfair. They don't even recognize the delay caused by the engagement teams themselves. The hrs of waiting. And all that just because of the KPI you have to deal with. Exhausting
my take based on working in consulting for 7 years.
pros; you get great exposure to many different companies / sectors. you learn and develop lots of skills including analysis and dealing with clients.
cons; its a bit of a pyramid scheme, where you are told that if you work to death, sacrifice personal life, in some instances (tell the small lies to win bids), and put up with some of the toxic environment with backstabbing colleagues, favouritism (its run by partners, and the partners are like little kings and queens, and if they like you you rise if not, no chance). you can feel like a sellable resource, when the resourcing teams try and sell you for jobs (they act almost like pimps i felt just selling me to jobs sometimes without even asking me).
for some its a great life, and it suits their personality and temperament. but i got tired of being sold to different clients as the 'expert' on something i knew little about, just because i was on the bench. i also got tired of being under pressure to deliver to unexpected deadlines that the partner had promised, working with lots of juniors who were from disparate backgrounds, emotional states, training and personal goals, to deliver something that was of high quality. sometimes there was no respect from the juniors to those below partners, as they did not see you as important in their career growth. so if you were in the middle between grad and partner, you sometimes got no respect from those above, nor from those below. but again its is very team dependant. if you are in a good team it can really be great. but most people did not want to kill themselves to be partner, and were looking to leave and join a firm in industry as a 'head of' type role.
Is it concerning that I felt I was reading my own thoughts 😬
There’s so much truth in your video. Highly appreciated! 👍
How is this even legal...
This much of working hour should be outlawed by international law
It's amazing/disgusting what big corporate can get away with. Most contracts will say 'you're required to work base hours + a reasonable amount more to complete all of your work'. How much is reasonable? How long is a piece of string 🤔
@@Yusuf-zm4gn yup. I work at an inv.bank as risk management. While my position is a more humane position with reasonable work hour, my friends at Inv.banking division work like you or maybe even worse. They arent living as humans. Our contract is "8 hrs per day work plus RESPONSIBILITY with clients". I'm so glad as a middle office guy, I have no client at all. But I'll be transfered to retail division next year and though it's nowhere as tough as IB division, the work hour still long. It'd give me a lot of knowledge and experience, but hopefully the workload wont be so bad. I'm wondering what's the exit route and opportunities after this if I dont wanna work at an inv.bank anymore...
@@warcatbattalion I wouldn't stress - IB's in general are well regarded and risk management is a common function in the corporate world. You can move into an industry role in say Banking, Government, Retail, Mining etc. The key is making sure you're not being overworked for extended periods of time.
Having clients gives you great exposure and forces you to pick up certain skills that back/middle office operations don't require as much. My biggest learning is if you're not enjoying your role, look for a move internally and then externally. No reason to stay miserable, especially with your IB background there will be no issues
Coming from a big 4 consulting myself, can relate to the points mentioned.
Big 4 in Asia does have over time pay..
Sadly US Big 4 won't provide any of them
Oh wow, news to me....do they 'shaft' you with a low base?
I experienced all of these situations in my first 3 years at Deloitte Consulting. had to fucking run and escape for my life.
1. set up to fail then blamed for failing
2. colleagues that have your back for half a year just to throw u under the bus during end of year reviews
3. escalation threats, shouting managers
4. asked for help during a project but manager asked me to search answers on wikipage on google.
5. no work life boundaries. working overtime is expected and default culture
6. shifting goal posts every year, got great client feedback and excellent performance reviews maxed out scores but never got promoted. (excluding the year where review got sabotaged by peers)
7. 0 salary raise company wide when covid broke out
8. heavily under-resourced projects with unrealistic timelines
9. half the team left in a year.
So glad you got out - that's a joke but sadly I don't flinch reading it!
this country seems US right?
Oh wao ... I am about to quit
b4 and this vidoe is last nail .... and very true... cant say much but that is reality .
bragging about being overworked and over-extracted by a corporation is not a flex.
3:50 that screenshot was happened in hk, when that screenshot got leaked it cause a massive controversy in hk. Also, one of my friends used to work at ey and knows the manager that sent the email, he said the manager should not send an email or leave the schedule in black and white although it’s common for them to have such schedule
That's the scary part - it's only controversial because it got leaked but otherwise it's completely normal 😓
Glad that my friend resigned a few months ago and get a new job that does not need to work overtime. I used to work as an esg consultant, it was like hell to me and i glad that I resigned.
No lies told‼️NO lies‼️
Don't start working at a big firm, start working for other companies to gain experience, then work for another consulting firm and only apply at the big 4 when you have enough experience to negotiate! I've had 2 of them approach me so far and I won't go below $115K. Gain experience and know your worth!
can you include booz allen in dat big 4 too?? or is booz different? which sector at booz do dey bench d most? the IT sector? devops engineers?
i live in canada. and i would never work more than 40h. and if i need a promotion, its best to find that at another company
I like your principles! Working 40+ has become so normalised 😮💨
@@Yusuf-zm4gn anytime someone in my friend circle mentions having to work late, i suggest they change or switch jobs. life is too short to work long hours.
Can you do a video on case studies and interviews?
Consulting doesn't sound so fun... I'm in audit at pwc and while I'm on probably the best possible client in terms of work life balance which has enough work to occupy 90% of my time, it's nothing like your experience. Busy season is 65h/week for five or six weeks, and the rest of the year is 40h. Granted the audit pay scale isn't as generous as consulting.
I spent 2.5 years at PwC and got my CPA while at PwC. I made very little and worked alot. But the brand power alone is worth it. The big 4 brand is superior to any other accounting firm. Full stop.
Great video, very informative even after a yea
Most of these problems are part of almost every workplace out there.
Hi Yusuf,
I’m currently studying a Bachelor of Business (People Management) at Deakin University in Melbourne.
I’m curious as to what exposure will be required to get into Change Management consulting or Human Capital Consulting as a graduate?
What experiences and skills do consultancy firms like Deloitte look for? What does the interview process entail and are questions more behavioural or case study breakdowns?
I would love to pick your brain about the industry and learn from your insights
Hey!
I'll preface this response with I'm not overly familiar with that division of consulting but grad level recruitment is fairly consistent. In terms of exposure that is a mandatory requirement, nothing really. Most graduates will receive offers with just their university credentials and a part time employment history of sorts. Some will have involvement in university societies and the smaller minority will have some relevant experience from boutique/small family run consultancies completing research/BD type work. It's definitely ideal to have a loaded CV but there is no real expectation by professional services firms at the grad level
In regards to the skills they look for - the piece of advice I give to people at this stage is you really need to impress upon the interviewers how much of a good cultural/team fit you will be. There is no real expectation that you come loaded with technical ability. Grads are a big component of the teams engine room so they like people who come with a can do attitude (no is a forbidden word at the grad level!), are able to adapt quickly (you'll go from project to project crossing over industries while you're at it) and can build rapport easily (you'll work with a raft of internal and external stakeholders from day dot). Really showcase your 'human' side in the interview but definitely show off any technical knowledge as well. The interview process is geared towards the behavioural side of things for the reasons I mentioned above. There are some very light case studies that you might solve as a group as part of an assessment centre or individually as part of a one-on-one interview.
All the best with the interview process 🙂
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Thank you. I appreciate the detailed response. Hope to speak with you again, soon.
Wish you the best, and I’ll be looking forward to all future content.
100% spot on
Hey Yusuf. Did you just "consider quitting" or "quit" it? Please try to be specific. If you are still in, then there must be a good reason why it outweighed these negatives. Cheers.
Hey Ke - At the time of making this video, I was still working at Deloitte. I have quit now though 🙂 there's definitely a point in the early years where the pros outweigh the cons! Best to get all the learnings up front and when you reach the point of diminishing returns then you leave
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Thank you for the prompt reply and clarifying. Keep making these vids on careers.
@@kehang3731 any time Ke! I've had a bit of a hiatus but will back to share my learnings soon 🙂
Hi would love to know out of interest, which country did you work in, i get it was Big 4, which is generally hard, but sometimes work culture in particular countries are generally rougher.
Hey Taahirah, I work in Australia 🙂
big 4 applications are opening up now Australia wide. I noticed that you have a background in engineering like me. The work you done during most of your career was mainly consultancy kind of work. How were you able to find an engineering role elsewhere without relevant engineering experience and with only consultancy experience?
Hey Moustafa - I haven't worked in engineering. I made the decision to not pursue a career in engineering during my penultimate year of uni
Why don't choose audit instead of consulting? Salaries in management roles are quite the same, but audit has a better work/life balance.
Audit???
You're kidding me.
Thank you for your insight!!!
Any time!!
Hi Yusuf, do you have any idea what it's like working in the IT department of the Big 4? I was offered a role at KPMG which pays a lot lower than my current job and wondering if it's the right choice for me.
Hey Aravind! By IT department do you mean a client facing team like technology consulting or KPMG's internal IT team supporting the firms infra?
@@Yusuf-zm4gn The role was called Technology Consultant - so it should be client-facing
@@originalHigh did you end up joining
How are you right now? Did you choose to work for KPMG? I have just received a similar offer from KPMG ....
Well, since it pays less you would really just be joining for the label
Millennial view on paying dues to gain experience
Is that the Lakers on your screen saver or some college ball team? I've been depressed since Teddy Buckets torched UConn in the tournament...
It's the lakers....I'm a glutton for punishment! Haha I saw highlights, that was a LeBronto-esque game. He was in his bag 😬
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince, read this book, good luck to you.
3:48 I’d sue! This is so against labour standards and laws!
Does this apply to all consulting or just the Big 4?
Generally speaking, yes. However it is more applicable as you go up the consulting hierarchy from boutique to big 4 to MBB.
Omg, life outside Europe is insanity. Why would anybody in their right mind work unpaid overtime? Isn't this negotiable upon signing the contract?
Packing my bags and flying to Europe as soon as borders open 😂 unpaid over time is the norm and extends beyond big 4 world unfortunately....you can negotiate a higher salary upfront but haven't heard of anyone striking up a paid overtime agreement
@@Yusuf-zm4gn I hope unionization comes back to US and gets introduced in Asia too. I don't think it is entitlement culture to have transparent rules on how overtime is handled. Great video, thanks for spreading the word
I've been working for a big 4 in Europe and overtime work was NEVER paid
@@Alicecoopper but in many EU countries that would be illegal, no?
lol...Overtime isnt paid in European Big 4s either...the only thing is at least you get more vacation days (at least in France)
Hello Mr. Yusuf. I was searching about the work experience in the BIG 4 companies and I came across your video. Your video was very insightful but I have some questions about cybersecurity consulting. May I connect with you to clear my doubts?
Sure!
Salam! I really enjoy watching your content and was wondering if there is anyway we could connect? Consulting seems super exciting but also a bit confusing and I would appreciate any help! Thanks!
Wassalam! Glad you're enjoying it Ahmed 🙂 let's connect via instagram, happy for you to dm questions there @theyusrahshow
You're still in a big four "Deloitte "how come you didn't quiet?
Not any more - had to wait for the right opportunity to come up 🙂
THANKS YUSUF
Any time Marco!
Son of a gun dont worry bro nothing will happen please help other people to get into such situation and suffer please help on the same on new generation
Thanks Sunil...will do
Hi yusuf, this is salman.. i have a good opportunity in another company with a good work life balance. And also i have opportunity in Deloitte, which is best bro. I need good work life balance. How hell is Deloitte. I think we can't spend time with family, praying. Pls say bro
Hi Salman, what level is your offer with Deloitte? While the work life balance will be better at the other company, Deloitte will strengthen your resume and you don't have to stay for too long. This decision should be made based on your personal priorities
@@Yusuf-zm4gn analyst for rpa without code
@@salmanfaries3064 Nice! I spent a good amount of time in the RPA space. At the analyst level, I'd be in favour of joining Deloitte and building yourself a good foundation. You can definitely make time for prayer and other activities. Once you've done your time, you'll have plenty of opportunities to move into industry roles or other companies where the pay will be higher and the workload won't be as much
I am also an engineer, I have an offer to be a consultant. Idk if i'm going to take it 50% travel is hard when I am already an engineer.
The travel isn't too bad and good to get out of your system early (the status credits are a great bonus haha). It only became a probably for me when I had family commitments 😆
Pls explain why we need to travel, where to travel wheather for onsite?
Short answer no it’s not worth it same way with IB just don’t do it. Stress is so not worth it and all that extra cash that is not extra ie all the long unpaid hours you will spend in more liquor or cigarettes or other vices that you would’ve otherwise not spent had you not had all that stress. Ultimately you end up harming yourself.
I hear you - what are your thoughts on short stints though? Build up a good amount of experience and the damage should be easily reversible?
Where TF were you when that "juicy" offer landed on my email?!
Serving your sentence?
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Atleast my mind is clear now not to join Deloitte !! 😀
@@420nabzy glad I could help but don't write it off based on my thoughts alone - if you can afford to 'compromise' at this point in your life then you stand to gain a lot from working there 🙂
Actually I'm having 11+ yrs of experience and already a manager. Work life balance is prime importance to me, hence gonna choose anything but Deloitte 😀
@@420nabzy in that case, I support your decision 1000% 🙂
Is every job that busy during winter?
Hey Tyson! Sorry for the slow response....not necessarily, some jobs have fairly predictable seasonal patterns, others are consistent year round and the rest is random busy seasons throughout the year
Oooofff seems like you picked the wrong Big Four my guy... and at the very least had the unlucky hand to be on a team like that..
Been thinking of joining deloitte in their supply chain or analytics team.... like you been thinking of that ROI.... I don't mind working long hours ideal I think 7am to 8 or 9pm I'm cool with but getting to fly and chill on my weekends... hate politics, don't mind being social and network but my DNA doesn't allow me to kiss ass and be fake..... I would love to get your advice and ask you some questions on my idealogy vs reality... is there a way I can contact you to ask more questions
Hey! You sound like a carbon copy of me :) For sure, send me a message on insta @theyusrahshow
U should get good colleagues and senior Managers. See there is no racism and be bold so as not to be bullied and pushed to death.
The same with yours, PwC Assurance.
thanks bro
✊🏾
in your opinion is there a limiti of age to enter as a junior consultant ?
Hey Andrea - I wouldn't say there's a limit having worked with junior consultants who were in their 40s/50s. Consultants who start in their early 20s and build a solid foundation early on are on the fast track. They face minimal hurdles by way of other commitments and can embrace the long hours. On the flip side someone coming into consulting with a relevant industry background or something completely left field (I've worked with ex marine biologists!) can also do really well. If you're joining consulting with say a strong background in health, you may start in a junior position but find yourself as a senior manager/director within 5-7 years given your strong subject matter expertise.
If your goal is to become a damn good problem solver, work with some bright minds and you're not averse to hard work then age shouldn't be a factor at all in your decision 🙂
Interesting... that “actual” email was sent on May 1 of 2021... over three months in the future from today.
😂 I was wondering what was going on for a second until I realised it’s Outlook’s date convention...it was sent on Tuesday the 5th of January
@@Yusuf-zm4gn thank you for the clarification!
@@lyzziez haha any time! A shame for that project team that it’s not an email from the future, could have given them the queue to run 😂
Well, you already have the email. Time to suit the firm for excessive hours and the extra pay you deserve hahahah
Come back
Soon!!
can i get decent pay and still have a life?
I'm sure you could until they figured out your game 😂 but honestly, depends what you would consider 'decent'
@@Yusuf-zm4gn half of what you get paid in a big four but working 40-45 hrs a week?
I mean,are big fours the only options for finance professionals?
@@anzalkhan4869 for sure! Finance qualifications open many doors...most companies turning over more than a few million dollars will have a financial planning function which would have reasonable hours at the analyst levels. Salary would be circa 60-80k (in Australia at least). You could also join the big local banks in just about any of their functions. Plenty of opportunities 🙂
@@Yusuf-zm4gn i see thanks yusuf,Love your content
If you have a problem with long hours and collegues do not go to law school. What you describe is a vacation for many professionals. You really have it better than you think.
Hey Aya, think you missed the intent of this one. I'm the last person to glorify long hours but at the same time I don't think too many others have it worse than 15+ hour days 6-7 days a week. Everyone should have a problem with long hours, period. Yes they're a necessary evil from time to time but never a consistent experience.
What I described shouldn't be a vacation for anyone unless you're a real masochist
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Lawyers, Bussiness owners and Doctors work long hours all the time. I used to have to work 80 hours a week and on holidays. Nurses too. You really don't know. Anytime you make over 6 figures expect to have to work many hours unless you work for the federal government . The federal government is the only place where people make over 100,000 to 200,000 thousand and only work 40hrs.
@@tracyi9152 imi pretty sure he knows. Peak seasons for Mgmt Consulting and Investment bankers can head into the 70 and 80 hour range. We understand
@@FlightX101 yes!! The older I get, the easier it becomes to take the high road 😅 only thing I’ll add is there are strict regulations that limit working hours of health professionals for obvious reasons. On the flip side we don’t have regulations/policies in our corner but rather the level of humanity of your superiors…
Instead of making video, Why you should not join big 4, you must focus on why should we join big 4
Fool, youtube is oversatuated with those kind of videos, continue to be gullible at your own peril
Hey yusuf, i need your opinion or infact anyone else who has experience with big 4 please help me here.
I recently have one offer from EY and i have to join in a month. I will be working in Technology Consulting vertical. I am currently working in Cybersecurity on the technical side.
Is it really true that the work life balance is not good over here, i am asking because i have a problem in my right eye and i cannot see anything without lenses. I try my best to bring a balance between my work life and my personal life (say about my health).
Would really appreciate your response.
Hey!
How many hours a day are you currently working in your cyber security role? What level is the offer from EY?
In your situation, I would be transparent about the challenge with your right eye and come up with a suitable working arrangement with your team. Tech consulting and cyber in my experience provide more reasonable working hours
@@Yusuf-zm4gn I currently work in a 9 hours on daily basis and barely we have to stretch it in a month.
I have been offered a consultant level designation / role at EY.
@@wayner1098 at the consultant level, you can expect to work 1-2 hours more than your current working hours on average.
My two cents would be there's no harm in taking on the opportunity and testing to see if it's right for you. Beyond your working relationship with your current employer, you don't have much to lose and stand to gain an insight into professional services, a strong network and you will increase your skill set/value proposition. Always best to take risks early in your career in pursuit of the perfect role
Good luck!
@@Yusuf-zm4gn Thanks Yusuf