Denny is spot on. It's OKAY for someone to just win a race, no gimmicks, no debris cautions, no artificial racing. There is nothing wrong with a team just going out on doing better.
The perception on the race is almost entirely dependent on two factors. How good or bad the coverage is, and who wins. When the coverage doesn't show any of the action outside of restarts, folks aren't going to think it was a good race. Its literally that simple.
i've been going down the rabbit hole trying to figure out what makes a "good" race and i finally had that exact thought, the "what if it's not the race, but piss poor coverage?" It's unlikely that there's absolutely nothing going on, but poor broadcasting could sure make it seem like it
Id say a good race has passing many leaders and a great finish. Look at Atlanta and daytona for comparison. I could rattle off races and you will know who won by how much the top 5 and the best wreck. If it's memorable it's good if it's forgettable it's not.
@@Midwestmo Atlanta was an absolutely garbage race! That race was a sham and media is gas lighting everyone into thinking that was a good race and in turn now anything that isn't a terrible aero race where they junk 95% of the field is an awful race.
I think what makes a race good is all about personal mindset and perception. For me, I walk away from a race and will consider it good if the race was organic and free of controversy. I don't automatically say it's boring/bad if someone dominates like Verstappen. I actually enjoy watching engineering excellence cuz it to me that's the whole point of motorsports. I give restrictor-plate racing it's own category and mindset about cuz they are gimmicky by their nature and tend to have some controversy at their finish.
I watched Gibbs’ onboard camera as Bell closed the gap and flew ahead; SO sad that the broadcast captured NONE of that action. Broadcasts still got a lot of work to do (more on-board action plz)
The problem with these cars from a spectator's perspective is that the edge is so small that we never get to see the cars being wheeled. They either look like there's no slide to the rears or they're spinning out, but no in-between. We want to see drivers make mistakes that don't lead to cautions but lead to passes. We want to see drivers being able to build runs and make passes without any tire advantage. We want to see the drivers be in control of an out of control car. The gen 7 seems to only show us wrecks or stable trains.
Well if u watched u could see cars sliding everywhere even cbell and if u wanna talk Abt making passes cbell literally came from 20th to the lead by 5 seconds but if u say he had a tire advantage fine what about stage 2 where he made up 7 seconds without a tire advantage
Totally agree!! Remember Chicago land 2018 I think when Jr was yelling slide job!! Kyle Larson and Kyle bush! What a great Finnish! I’m not sure they could of over drove these cars like that and not snapped around
do you even watch the races? they are constantly sideways every week and we have multiple guys spinning out every single week in qualifying and then again on their own in the races. that hasn’t happened in at least a decade
@@slixs9775 There were only two cars that could go through the field, all the other cars had to pass in the first 4 laps and go into parade mode. I guess it rally depended on if your a Bell fan or not as far as enjoying the race.
I've watched hundreds of laps of on-boards in the next gen car, and when they step the back end out even the smallest degree, it's a big moment. This was kind of an obvious side effect of going to the big wheel and short sidewall by taking away the springyness of the tire. It just makes the car that much more rigid with no forgivability. This car would immediately race better if they want back to the old tire size.....which they can't do now because they made the brakes bigger.
Pheonix is held to a higher standard than most tracks because its the finale track. If it had its normal spot in the round of 8, or if the championship race rotated tracks, id have no problem with a race like this, but the championship race has to be at a track where the driver can make more of a difference
I hate having so much parity. I think there should be limitations to what teams can do to their cars but it definitely should be loosened up a lot from where it is right now. Right now it’s all about fighting for track position. I’d like to see a stat that shows how early into the run passes happen because I feel like the only time there’s a lot of passing is early in these runs. Later in the run all the cars run dead even
Thanks for answering my ? about how you and others navigate the dogleg. Your insights on that and your truthfulness on many other topics are what I look forward to each week. Now, if I could only get your HR to let me know about the jobs I applied for we could do it together :)
I enjoyed the race. I like seeing Ford come out of nowhere and be real strong on this type of track. Makes things interesting moving forward. NASCAR fans just complain too much.
@@jasonoverstreet870 Phoenix it sounds like? what was crazy about what he said? The race was fine and Ford finished in 5 of the top 10 spots outta nowhere at the end?
Sometimes with this these rules package and charter conversations, I'm convinced Brian France still runs the sport and NASCAR just isn't telling anybody he is
This show has quickly become my go-to Monday evening commute companion. I have an hour-drive home and I love listening to Denny's insight. And the older I get, the more I'm like " You know, he's right!"
Good race i liked it. Tv should focus on pit crew athlete interviews after a green flag stop. It adds a whole new level to the event and the show. It was cool when they did it.
The fact that TV does not cover what is happening throughout the field, discuss the storylines and battle of cars 'not in the lead' is the largest issue. When you go to the track, you see all of the small battles, the comers and goers, because there is always so much going on. Split screen of the typical lead/top 5-10 in one shot and a second shot of through the pack battles. Challenging the broadcast team to spread out their focus will give them the ability to add more vocabulary and variety to the broadcast.
100% agree with take on Jeff Gluck's poll. I don't think most people like Phoenix as a race, but compared to some previous race's there this was an improvement. Not where I want it, but definitely better than recent years.
What more do I want? Networks to cover the RACE instead of everything else. I want to watch a race not all their gadgets. Also, side by side coverage sucks!!!
An all access Nascar like the MLb or NFL network would be the answer. No commercials, have a stream with commentary and one without but no commercials. Cost maybe $100 a year. Id buy that
@@craigdalton2527they make more than our 100$/years with the commercials. IDK that there are enough of us to justify another paid platform. That said, AM radio is free and the MRN/PRN streams are also free. And during the cup race, you can pick an onboard camera to follow.
Denny's not wrong about highlighting driver runs more. Truex Jr. is a good example, when he was out front the booth understandably talked about the strategy of hoping for a Caution flag to get tires and fuel. It didn't come and he had to pit w/o enough laps to work through the field. He came out of pits 20-something and charged thru the field to finish 7th. It looked like if he had another 10-15 laps he would have been back in front, so why not go back and debate the strategy of staying out wishing for a flag versus the reality of needing to pit earlier to have enough laps left to work back thru the field to the front? But, they never mentioned his pace after he pitted. Wishing for a flag shouldn't be a strategy.
Coming through backmarkers on fresher tires in a JGR car... hmmm? Im a Truex fan, yesterday sucked bruh shouldve pit and spent the rest of the race fixing the mistake, which was nice but not crazy and definitely not a talking point till post race atleast.
I would like to see more options on Pit Road. This way, a crew chief and driver can make their car dramatically faster. Also maybe some more options in the car for the driver can change.
Phoenix kinda looked like an old school race to me. It wasnt a bad race a little toyota heavy. I really would like to see 900 hp narrower tires that wear out and as always very little down force we use to have this and it worked. Thanks for the show Guys!
TV never tells the story. I kept seeing Shane move up the pylon through the field at Chicao. But they did not show how he was doing it uintil he as going for the lead. F1 shows us the battles in the field so much better and announcers seem to be excited. Sunday I watched F1, Indycar, and NASCAR. They all had a large winning margin. Indycar had some excitement from the broadcasters, but a gas mileage race is just not exciting. F1 had Bearman, action back in the field, Alonso, and the inteam duel between Hamilton and Russell, Ferrari chasing Red Bull,. etc. It was the best of the day. Phoenix was better than the Indycar race Sunday. Which happens to be unusual. Besides Bell's last run,, I was interested in seeing some drivers who had a bad start to the season perform. There was a story. The announcers seemed bored and we could not see the people moving up through the field. Which I found the most exciting thing when I attended races.
I was on the edge of my seat watching Lewis and Lando close in on bearman, and it was a situation that was developing *every single lap* in real time. Having watched more kinds of racing last year into this year, I’ve learned just how much action goes on away from the front of the pack, and it’s *a lot*. Broadcasts do their fans and the drivers a disservice when they ignore the midfield battles or cars actively moving through the field
I have a new found respect for Denny after regularly listening to this podcast. His inside viewpoints on the ins and outs of the business and the racing is great. I’ve been pulling away from nascar for some time. I can’t stand pack racing anymore. It’s a gimmick. A corporate manufactured race that has taken away so much from what used to be long time race fans enjoy. It used to be about raw power and speed. Every week is about creating the next story line. Bring pack the power and let the drivers handle the cars like they used to. Then the excitement will come back cause now it’s just boring and doesn’t even feel like a big event anymore. That goes for all the tracks.
NASCAR doesn’t want to add HP because Honda doesn’t want it. They’re doing ANYTHING to court them since they’re openly talking about leaving IndyCar because of their engine bills being too high for what they want, and allowing them to have a horsepower package that’ll make it easy for them to build in a short amount of time. There I said it….
I’m from Phoenix, I grew up going to the track back when it was still PIR. I understand why the back stretch entrance was removed and turn 2 was reconfigured. I understand why the road course was removed for better pit facilities. I understand why they relocated the start finish line. I like 99% of the changes over the years. But the dogleg needs grass put back in.
Looking back on the 24hrs of Le Mans. People were going nuts over the raw sound and power of Hendricks Garage 56. Imagine if we had the Gen 4 cars right now, the craz it would cause! I don’t care if someone dominates a race that is racing. I just want to see drivers wheel their car and make tire wear matter and not see aero blocking at tracks like Darlington and smaller!! I want to be able to see someone drive right to the bumper of another car. Show this to Denny
I guess as a die hard Nascar fan, I’m absolutely tired about hearing horsepower, it’s absolutely absurd that NASCAR will not listen to the drivers that are behind the wheel of those race cars and at least try it.. it’s time to pull the lever, I feel like they have tried everything with the aero, I’m tired of hearing about aero, it’s time to make the big swing and listen to the drivers and give them more HP. For God sake, NASCAR at least just try it.
I’m a new NASCAR fan and I’m trying to wrap my head around the HP issue. So right now everyone is running 650…. If it’s increased to 750 wouldn’t the racing be the same since everyone has 750?
Takes more skill racing with more horsepower. It's easier to spin tires and wear em out, it's harder on the brakes... Not everyone can finesse 900hp and it would show who really could.
I want ingenuity, I want separation between the teams. Denny is right here, with nascar evening the playing field then yea, it’s gonna be harder to pass unless you’re way faster. Forced parody is awful. Should be rewarding the better teams, not handicapping them to make sure the mid to bad teams can compete.
"mid to bad teams" "better teams" being rich isnt being better. its also spelled parity. which means evenness in starting conditions (not evenness in outcomes). parity between the teams is actually better for knowing which teams are ACTUALLY good. a team that can afford 600 engineers across 7 different engine building laboratories alone not even counting the rest of the car, is going to out perform even the BEST team of 5 absolute prodigies operating out of your local tire shop. the filthy stinking rich team isn't the better team. when you make sure the 5 prodigies and 600 engineers both have to start from the same equipment, it gives those five guys a half decent shot. bringing nascar at least a little bit closer to how it used to be. Dale sr would support it. he was already fed up with how nascar had become a rich persons sport.
I have to imagine they aren't giving us power because they need the hybrid drivtetrain to be the thing that brings high power back. Hybrids with a big hp gain is going to be easier to sell to fans than hybrids without a horsepower gain.
I like when the cars had more differences under the hood between them for speedways and superspeedways, I feel like road courses are better when you are running a bunch of cars that are nearly identical
I think the reason we hate it is cause it's the championship race. It makes what is supposed to be games 7 for nascar but is a snooze fest. I'd say switch Vegas with Phoenix. Vegas has had a good history in the playoff race and is still warm weather.
I imagine an IMSA style approach of engines isn't too far off? But a season of letting them gung-ho with 750-800 would be fun before sending the current engines off. 😅
TV is definitely to blame in making the race appear worse than it was. Towards the end of the final run, Truex was making up positions like crazy after being the only car to pit under green, but they didn't acknowledge him at all until he had already cracked the top 10. There was also compelling battles on the final lap, but they were locked in Cbell's cooldown lap and pit crew, it's extremely frustrating.
this is totally speculation but i wonder and kinda hope that nascar is waiting for the new engine package to up the horsepower. add hype and excitement, and since attendance is way up and tv is steady right now, they aren’t super worried about making a jump right now when they could wait 9 months for a big jump.
I think you can get a happy medium with having spec cars with comers and goers if we just have alot more horse power and less grip so there's actual skill and more chances for mistakes
Most sprint car guys that have a budget are in between eight and 900 horse and they run those things at least 15 to 20 races before they freshen them up and freshen them up is probably about 12 to 14 15,000
The race wasn't bad, the FOX production was awful though. I miss the days that the networks would go "through the field" and talk about how every single driver's race was going. They followed the strung out 1st through 5th battle without acknowledging some of the chaotic racing that was going on for 18th-25th all race. Hell, they couldn't even get a network interview from Joey after his wreck; they had to rely on Bob's secondhand interview to be played. That's just lazy and negligent. And I'm old enough to remember when there were in-race vignettes (usually less than a minute in an inset window) showing what drivers were like outside of the car, things like showing Harry Gant building houses, or Earnhardt bass fishing, or Kyle Petty doing his cross-country charity motorcycle rides. Here's the bottom line: one of the biggest detriments to the sport right now is the inability for the broadcasts to capture and convey the drivers' individual personalities to the audience. Those are the humanizing things that create fanbases, and maintain fanbases. NBC tried to do this with Rutledge Wood's segments, but their fatal flaw was making Rut the star of each story by putting him on camera and act like a clown....you don't need to do that, just let the reporter tell the story.
The TV coverage wasn't great. More than once they would cut to commercials as a lead change would happen, or anything interesting was on screen. Fox has yet to show pit road speeds this year and every time it annoys me.
I'm curious, can the SMT data be imported as an AI for sim racing? Could a driver go home, and pull up a certain lap and use a ghost mode to follow them? I know the setups aren't going to simulated from that data, but it would interesting to see if they could adjust their own setups to try and change it up and improve
Denny has made some amazing points I'll be honest for me it was one of the more entertaining Phoenix races in a while. We need races like this we need the occasional guy just kicking ass. That's what Nascar is you get the amazing three wide finishes with the race where some guy just dominates and that's okay.
@@stellingbanjodudeAh yes, the TV broadcast problem. I swear F1 fans said the same thing (they actually did with regards to the midpack, and they're right) but fr, the TV direction was once again terrible. Case in point, the final quarter of the stage and the utter lack of focus on Truex managing to make a James Smalls strategy look good for once, with how much of a wash the battle of the lead was going to be the second Bell passed Gibbs. I legitimately didn't even know Truex was top-10 relevant until after he got inside the top-10.
Need 3 push to pass options and 100 HP anywhere up or down as that will b up to teams . Then let the teams tune there engines if nit allowed… Have to try something ! I’m just throwing ideas
My complaint would not be with the race. My complaint would be with Fox's coverage. Sure, show the leaders, but PLEASE show longer shots so we can see the battles.
That race was a good race. Occasionally someone wins by 5 seconds, and that is okay. The people that disliked that race are Hendrick fans. I am looking forward to Richmond and Martinsville. I would like the see these cars with more HP and less mechanical grip.
I agree with the vast majority of what Denny is saying here, and I do think Phoenix was a acceptable race, but that still doesn't mean there isn't some serious issues that need to be addressed. The fundamental next gen car issue of the car being too easy to drive solo (because of the sequential shifter and lack of horsepower) , while simultaneously too difficult to pass in a pack (because of the lack of horsepower and air blocking due to a over reliance on aerodynamics) needs to be solved. Why Nascar refuses to add power back to these cars when teams, drivers, manufacturers, and fans are all asking for it is beyond me. I can only assume it's because the new hybrid engine regulations coming 2026-2027 will likely be sold to the Nascar fanbase as "look how much more powerful these engines are". Tire fallout was much better, this is true. But stage racing never allows this to come to the forefront, unless someone self spins like you did Mr. Hamlin. So that's kinda a moot point IMO. And then then the Broadcast, I'm so happy drivers are catching on to how bad it is when fox broadcasts a race. I'm very curious to see how much more exciting the NBC version of this race is. In many ways, Short tracks with the next gen car have become as luck based as super speedways but in a different way, because its all about getting lucky with cautions to gain a bunch of track position and or time in the pits. Its just this extremely odd middle ground IMO, where skill does matter yet its impossible to win without getting lucky.
I’m soooo sick of these fans complaining. They don’t know what they want. They like Atlanta but don’t want every track to be that way. They always talk about the old days as if they had incredible finishes weekly when in reality they had 9 second leads or lapped up to 6th place.
I don't think it was a bad race but I do feel like the racing at phoenix has gotten worse since they moved the finish line. The restarts are supposed to be interesting with the dog leg right after they go to green but they just aren't.
NASCAR finally showed their cards today on the Morning Drive as to why they are resistant to upping the horsepower, and that is simply they don't want to change the package in the middle of trying to lure in Honda. It's as simple as that.
@UGAfan12132 Brad Moran specifically listed it as a key factor on the show today. It makes sense, NASCAR wouldn't want to advertise that they are doing anything to increase costs when that is the main reason that Honda is potentially leaving Indy.
I felt this race was really bad. Not on part of the racing, but from the coverage by Fox. There’s a ton happening on the track but they make it seem like there’s only a few cars on the track. For the record, Im a #8 fan so that made the day even worse but Fox needs to do something majorly different to add excitement during the race. I was on the edge of my seat so much during the Atlanta race that we bought tickets for the Sept race. After this last race I could care less if we ever go back to phoenix.
Denny. Lifelong Chesterfield County resident here and diehard supporter of yours. Quick comment: Why are you ALWAYS saying, “Fur Shur” in your podcast. We all have our little idiosyncracies. Just asking. Keep that #11 charging forward - this is YOUR YEAR!
Here's the problem with Phoenix. The 1 lap of crazy passing in the dogleg on restarts is a huge tease and makes the rest of the spread out single file racing feel like a huge disappoint by comparison. Before the dogleg gimmick the racing was consistently mediocre but it didn't set any high expectations. You knew exactly what you were gonna get. No one had any high expectations of anything more than a typical short flat track race.
The Gluck poll is: Was it a good race? To answer no doesn’t necessarily mean you hate, it just wasn’t good. Phoenix wasn’t good. It wasn’t awful, but it wasn’t good. The FOX coverage was awful.
I think the fans seeing a driver or team win that they don’t like, also say to fans that it was a “bad” race. If Chase Elliott won, a lot more fans would approve of the race. Sometimes you gotta think of a race like wrestling. If you remember the finish and it was a fun finish or a good guy won, you went home happy. It can apply to nascar too and other sports.
As a fan I enjoy not knowing who or which manufacturer is going to win when watching the race.I easily picked Larson as Vegas winner week before.(good race to watch but sorta knew outcome before start).I did not see Bell as the Phoenix winner!It is nice surprise to have Toyota run well and different winner.I watched NASCAR in the “Heyday “ and seeing only 2-3 competitive cars and winners a lap/2laps or more ahead at end.BORING-unless you were a Petty/Pearson/Allison fan.The rest of cars were field fillers usually.
I decided to watch the IndyCar Race at St Petersburg because I wanted excitement. Phoenix with what NASCAR changed was not going to bring excitement. Once the 1st road course comes, then, you will see excitement....SVG is going to bring that. Kyle Busch spinning out again at the same track, that tells me all I needed to see... He needs a new CC. I want to see passing, not follow the leader!
I was at the race. My opinion is I felt it was boring. I seriously closed my eyes for a bit, I could have slept. In my opinion, the Xfinity race was more exciting.
Fans always want the same thing. CLOSENESS. Period. Fans love Daytona and Talladega. Fans love the new Atlanta. Fans love tracks where cars are in constant tight competition. Track owners need to consult high level physicists, to understand the exact banking and configuration structures that lend towards super close racing. Tracks where cars get strung out are going to increasingly be a relic of history. NASCAR fans want action every lap. That's not possible at strung out mid-sized tracks.
i think passing should be difficult, but not impossible. it shouldnt be like a super speedway where everybody is making meaningless passes, but it shouldnt be like formula 1 where theres only 1 or 2 overtakes a race. i dont mind if i takes a few laps to make a meaningful pass.
I like Phoenix, I don't really mind it, I know the last stage was unwatchable, but NASCAR sold out that track, and Phoenix, AZ is the 5th populous American city, that is a valuable market
I find it hard to believe that Honda is worried about the horsepower number. It's more likely they concerned with having to run a V8. The IndyCar engine package is a twin-turbo V6 making 900 horsepower. Honda makes horsepower, but they don't make a V8. If Toyota can get 300 horsepower from a turbo inline 3 cylinder engine in a production car, they can get the same 900 Honda gets in a TT V6. Changing the engine package would also give more differentiation between the three national series. Put TT V6s in Cup, turbo 4s in Xfinity, and NA V8s in Trucks. NASCAR is supposed to have some association with the cars we can actually go buy (Stock Car is literally in the name). Pick a NASCAR OEM (or rumored OEM like Honda) manufactured car/truck with a V8. For the cars, there's Mustang. That's it. Camaro is dead and Toyota doesn't make a V8 Camry. Toyota also no longer makes a V8 powered truck, not even the near $80k Tundra Capstone. Ford has a V8 option for trucks, but not as a standard configuration. Chevy still does have standard V8 options for the Silverado.
Does more HP mean more fuel use? Only reason I can see why they don't want to do back up. Fuel usage. Politics. Money may not be the deciding factor this time.
I'm not a Denny fan but keep banging the horsepower drum for us fans. I appreciate it.
I'm a Denny Hamlin fan, keep banging the horsepower drum for us. I appreciate it.
I'm a Denny Hamlin fan, keep banging the horsepower drum for us. I appreciate it.
I'm a denny Hamlin fan. Keep banging the horsepower drum. We appreciate it.
The more, the merrier.
@@bighand1530 keep banging it
Denny is spot on. It's OKAY for someone to just win a race, no gimmicks, no debris cautions, no artificial racing. There is nothing wrong with a team just going out on doing better.
The perception on the race is almost entirely dependent on two factors. How good or bad the coverage is, and who wins. When the coverage doesn't show any of the action outside of restarts, folks aren't going to think it was a good race. Its literally that simple.
i've been going down the rabbit hole trying to figure out what makes a "good" race and i finally had that exact thought, the "what if it's not the race, but piss poor coverage?" It's unlikely that there's absolutely nothing going on, but poor broadcasting could sure make it seem like it
Id say a good race has passing many leaders and a great finish. Look at Atlanta and daytona for comparison. I could rattle off races and you will know who won by how much the top 5 and the best wreck. If it's memorable it's good if it's forgettable it's not.
@@Midwestmoif that’s your standard you must not like racing. cause there are a fuck ton of races in every series that are forgettable.
@@Midwestmo Atlanta was an absolutely garbage race! That race was a sham and media is gas lighting everyone into thinking that was a good race and in turn now anything that isn't a terrible aero race where they junk 95% of the field is an awful race.
I think what makes a race good is all about personal mindset and perception.
For me, I walk away from a race and will consider it good if the race was organic and free of controversy. I don't automatically say it's boring/bad if someone dominates like Verstappen. I actually enjoy watching engineering excellence cuz it to me that's the whole point of motorsports.
I give restrictor-plate racing it's own category and mindset about cuz they are gimmicky by their nature and tend to have some controversy at their finish.
I watched CBell's in car camera and it was very workmanlike. I loved it.
I love the editing. Bleep the sh** but keep the fucking in.
I watched Gibbs’ onboard camera as Bell closed the gap and flew ahead; SO sad that the broadcast captured NONE of that action. Broadcasts still got a lot of work to do (more on-board action plz)
Yep the announcers knew it all day that CBell was the car to beat…. Didn’t catch hardly any of him passing on TV. Pitiful
Cool for Denny to shout out AD. He's a good dude
The problem with these cars from a spectator's perspective is that the edge is so small that we never get to see the cars being wheeled. They either look like there's no slide to the rears or they're spinning out, but no in-between. We want to see drivers make mistakes that don't lead to cautions but lead to passes.
We want to see drivers being able to build runs and make passes without any tire advantage. We want to see the drivers be in control of an out of control car. The gen 7 seems to only show us wrecks or stable trains.
Well if u watched u could see cars sliding everywhere even cbell and if u wanna talk Abt making passes cbell literally came from 20th to the lead by 5 seconds but if u say he had a tire advantage fine what about stage 2 where he made up 7 seconds without a tire advantage
Totally agree!!
Remember Chicago land 2018 I think when Jr was yelling slide job!! Kyle Larson and Kyle bush!
What a great Finnish! I’m not sure they could of over drove these cars like that and not snapped around
do you even watch the races? they are constantly sideways every week and we have multiple guys spinning out every single week in qualifying and then again on their own in the races. that hasn’t happened in at least a decade
@@slixs9775 There were only two cars that could go through the field, all the other cars had to pass in the first 4 laps and go into parade mode. I guess it rally depended on if your a Bell fan or not as far as enjoying the race.
I've watched hundreds of laps of on-boards in the next gen car, and when they step the back end out even the smallest degree, it's a big moment. This was kind of an obvious side effect of going to the big wheel and short sidewall by taking away the springyness of the tire. It just makes the car that much more rigid with no forgivability. This car would immediately race better if they want back to the old tire size.....which they can't do now because they made the brakes bigger.
Pheonix is held to a higher standard than most tracks because its the finale track. If it had its normal spot in the round of 8, or if the championship race rotated tracks, id have no problem with a race like this, but the championship race has to be at a track where the driver can make more of a difference
I hate having so much parity. I think there should be limitations to what teams can do to their cars but it definitely should be loosened up a lot from where it is right now. Right now it’s all about fighting for track position. I’d like to see a stat that shows how early into the run passes happen because I feel like the only time there’s a lot of passing is early in these runs. Later in the run all the cars run dead even
Or how many were under green flag pit stops. There were more than 1 of those today
I would much rather see ingenuity over parity every time. When everyone is fast no one is.
And when everyone's super...😂
@@trent7736no one is super 💪
Watch f1. I watch every practice qualifying and race. Only the first 4 or 5 laps are good.
Thanks for answering my ? about how you and others navigate the dogleg. Your insights on that and your truthfulness on many other topics are what I look forward to each week. Now, if I could only get your HR to let me know about the jobs I applied for we could do it together :)
I enjoyed the race. I like seeing Ford come out of nowhere and be real strong on this type of track. Makes things interesting moving forward. NASCAR fans just complain too much.
What race did you watch?
@@jasonoverstreet870 Phoenix it sounds like? what was crazy about what he said? The race was fine and Ford finished in 5 of the top 10 spots outta nowhere at the end?
@@zumpttHe's and NPC NASCAR "fan". Just a whiney moaning never good enough type. Let them be miserable and angry in their life. 😆
@@zumptt He's an NPC NASCAR "fan". Just a whiney moaning never good enough type. Let them be miserable and angry in their lives. 😆
Sometimes with this these rules package and charter conversations, I'm convinced Brian France still runs the sport and NASCAR just isn't telling anybody he is
This show has quickly become my go-to Monday evening commute companion. I have an hour-drive home and I love listening to Denny's insight. And the older I get, the more I'm like " You know, he's right!"
Good race i liked it. Tv should focus on pit crew athlete interviews after a green flag stop. It adds a whole new level to the event and the show. It was cool when they did it.
The fact that TV does not cover what is happening throughout the field, discuss the storylines and battle of cars 'not in the lead' is the largest issue. When you go to the track, you see all of the small battles, the comers and goers, because there is always so much going on. Split screen of the typical lead/top 5-10 in one shot and a second shot of through the pack battles. Challenging the broadcast team to spread out their focus will give them the ability to add more vocabulary and variety to the broadcast.
100% agree with take on Jeff Gluck's poll. I don't think most people like Phoenix as a race, but compared to some previous race's there this was an improvement. Not where I want it, but definitely better than recent years.
Phoenix is better then texas
What more do I want? Networks to cover the RACE instead of everything else. I want to watch a race not all their gadgets. Also, side by side coverage sucks!!!
An all access Nascar like the MLb or NFL network would be the answer. No commercials, have a stream with commentary and one without but no commercials. Cost maybe $100 a year. Id buy that
@@craigdalton2527they make more than our 100$/years with the commercials. IDK that there are enough of us to justify another paid platform.
That said, AM radio is free and the MRN/PRN streams are also free. And during the cup race, you can pick an onboard camera to follow.
Denny I hope your kiddos get better ❤
Denny's not wrong about highlighting driver runs more. Truex Jr. is a good example, when he was out front the booth understandably talked about the strategy of hoping for a Caution flag to get tires and fuel. It didn't come and he had to pit w/o enough laps to work through the field. He came out of pits 20-something and charged thru the field to finish 7th. It looked like if he had another 10-15 laps he would have been back in front, so why not go back and debate the strategy of staying out wishing for a flag versus the reality of needing to pit earlier to have enough laps left to work back thru the field to the front? But, they never mentioned his pace after he pitted. Wishing for a flag shouldn't be a strategy.
Coming through backmarkers on fresher tires in a JGR car... hmmm? Im a Truex fan, yesterday sucked bruh shouldve pit and spent the rest of the race fixing the mistake, which was nice but not crazy and definitely not a talking point till post race atleast.
If they're willing to have teams spend all this money on aero, I genuinely don't understand why they wouldn't consider bumping power.
I would like to see more options on Pit Road. This way, a crew chief and driver can make their car dramatically faster. Also maybe some more options in the car for the driver can change.
That wide part was crazy to watch on TV.
If we're going to expect Phoenix to be like this, like you said Denny, then we need to go back to Miami for the Championship race. Simple as that..
Excellent podcast and race recap. I appreciate your insight. I'm hoping you get top 5 on Sunday.
This is great content ! Thx Denny & team .
Phoenix kinda looked like an old school race to me. It wasnt a bad race a little toyota heavy. I really would like to see 900 hp narrower tires that wear out and as always very little down force we use to have this and it worked. Thanks for the show Guys!
Thanks for the timestamps!
TV never tells the story. I kept seeing Shane move up the pylon through the field at Chicao. But they did not show how he was doing it uintil he as going for the lead. F1 shows us the battles in the field so much better and announcers seem to be excited. Sunday I watched F1, Indycar, and NASCAR. They all had a large winning margin. Indycar had some excitement from the broadcasters, but a gas mileage race is just not exciting. F1 had Bearman, action back in the field, Alonso, and the inteam duel between Hamilton and Russell, Ferrari chasing Red Bull,. etc. It was the best of the day. Phoenix was better than the Indycar race Sunday. Which happens to be unusual. Besides Bell's last run,, I was interested in seeing some drivers who had a bad start to the season perform. There was a story. The announcers seemed bored and we could not see the people moving up through the field. Which I found the most exciting thing when I attended races.
I was on the edge of my seat watching Lewis and Lando close in on bearman, and it was a situation that was developing *every single lap* in real time. Having watched more kinds of racing last year into this year, I’ve learned just how much action goes on away from the front of the pack, and it’s *a lot*. Broadcasts do their fans and the drivers a disservice when they ignore the midfield battles or cars actively moving through the field
I have a new found respect for Denny after regularly listening to this podcast. His inside viewpoints on the ins and outs of the business and the racing is great. I’ve been pulling away from nascar for some time. I can’t stand pack racing anymore. It’s a gimmick. A corporate manufactured race that has taken away so much from what used to be long time race fans enjoy. It used to be about raw power and speed. Every week is about creating the next story line. Bring pack the power and let the drivers handle the cars like they used to. Then the excitement will come back cause now it’s just boring and doesn’t even feel like a big event anymore. That goes for all the tracks.
NASCAR doesn’t want to add HP because Honda doesn’t want it. They’re doing ANYTHING to court them since they’re openly talking about leaving IndyCar because of their engine bills being too high for what they want, and allowing them to have a horsepower package that’ll make it easy for them to build in a short amount of time.
There I said it….
I’m from Phoenix, I grew up going to the track back when it was still PIR. I understand why the back stretch entrance was removed and turn 2 was reconfigured. I understand why the road course was removed for better pit facilities. I understand why they relocated the start finish line. I like 99% of the changes over the years. But the dogleg needs grass put back in.
Looking back on the 24hrs of Le Mans. People were going nuts over the raw sound and power of Hendricks Garage 56. Imagine if we had the Gen 4 cars right now, the craz it would cause! I don’t care if someone dominates a race that is racing. I just want to see drivers wheel their car and make tire wear matter and not see aero blocking at tracks like Darlington and smaller!! I want to be able to see someone drive right to the bumper of another car. Show this to Denny
I guess as a die hard Nascar fan, I’m absolutely tired about hearing horsepower, it’s absolutely absurd that NASCAR will not listen to the drivers that are behind the wheel of those race cars and at least try it.. it’s time to pull the lever, I feel like they have tried everything with the aero, I’m tired of hearing about aero, it’s time to make the big swing and listen to the drivers and give them more HP. For God sake, NASCAR at least just try it.
I’m a new NASCAR fan and I’m trying to wrap my head around the HP issue. So right now everyone is running 650…. If it’s increased to 750 wouldn’t the racing be the same since everyone has 750?
Takes more skill racing with more horsepower. It's easier to spin tires and wear em out, it's harder on the brakes... Not everyone can finesse 900hp and it would show who really could.
@@Just_a_beaver ok makes sense
Need 1,000hp, 10” tire, 15” wheel, roll the side skirts, remove the underbody, remove the shark fins.
I want ingenuity, I want separation between the teams. Denny is right here, with nascar evening the playing field then yea, it’s gonna be harder to pass unless you’re way faster.
Forced parody is awful. Should be rewarding the better teams, not handicapping them to make sure the mid to bad teams can compete.
"mid to bad teams" "better teams" being rich isnt being better. its also spelled parity. which means evenness in starting conditions (not evenness in outcomes).
parity between the teams is actually better for knowing which teams are ACTUALLY good. a team that can afford 600 engineers across 7 different engine building laboratories alone not even counting the rest of the car, is going to out perform even the BEST team of 5 absolute prodigies operating out of your local tire shop. the filthy stinking rich team isn't the better team.
when you make sure the 5 prodigies and 600 engineers both have to start from the same equipment, it gives those five guys a half decent shot. bringing nascar at least a little bit closer to how it used to be. Dale sr would support it. he was already fed up with how nascar had become a rich persons sport.
I have to imagine they aren't giving us power because they need the hybrid drivtetrain to be the thing that brings high power back. Hybrids with a big hp gain is going to be easier to sell to fans than hybrids without a horsepower gain.
I like when the cars had more differences under the hood between them for speedways and superspeedways, I feel like road courses are better when you are running a bunch of cars that are nearly identical
Denny flexing the Grove XXIII hat on the pod always makes me envious
How about a compromise, 900 horsepower on road courses only so people will be more open to them 🤔
I think the reason we hate it is cause it's the championship race. It makes what is supposed to be games 7 for nascar but is a snooze fest. I'd say switch Vegas with Phoenix. Vegas has had a good history in the playoff race and is still warm weather.
I imagine an IMSA style approach of engines isn't too far off? But a season of letting them gung-ho with 750-800 would be fun before sending the current engines off. 😅
Toyota showed serious speed at Phoenix
Damn Jared lighten up, it’s not so serious. Smile every now and then. Captain Serious
TV is definitely to blame in making the race appear worse than it was. Towards the end of the final run, Truex was making up positions like crazy after being the only car to pit under green, but they didn't acknowledge him at all until he had already cracked the top 10. There was also compelling battles on the final lap, but they were locked in Cbell's cooldown lap and pit crew, it's extremely frustrating.
If Nascar wants all of the cars to be the same then that is what is killing the sport!
Nascar needs something like the MLB NETWORK or NFL NETWORK, so we can watch the race with no commercials.
34:26 I’ve been saying it! Nascar needs to open up the engine regs like IMSA has open regs in the GTP and GTD classes
I thought this was one of the best races all year. Very enjoyable and entertaining
this is totally speculation but i wonder and kinda hope that nascar is waiting for the new engine package to up the horsepower. add hype and excitement, and since attendance is way up and tv is steady right now, they aren’t super worried about making a jump right now when they could wait 9 months for a big jump.
I think you can get a happy medium with having spec cars with comers and goers if we just have alot more horse power and less grip so there's actual skill and more chances for mistakes
Most sprint car guys that have a budget are in between eight and 900 horse and they run those things at least 15 to 20 races before they freshen them up and freshen them up is probably about 12 to 14 15,000
The race wasn't bad, the FOX production was awful though. I miss the days that the networks would go "through the field" and talk about how every single driver's race was going. They followed the strung out 1st through 5th battle without acknowledging some of the chaotic racing that was going on for 18th-25th all race. Hell, they couldn't even get a network interview from Joey after his wreck; they had to rely on Bob's secondhand interview to be played. That's just lazy and negligent. And I'm old enough to remember when there were in-race vignettes (usually less than a minute in an inset window) showing what drivers were like outside of the car, things like showing Harry Gant building houses, or Earnhardt bass fishing, or Kyle Petty doing his cross-country charity motorcycle rides. Here's the bottom line: one of the biggest detriments to the sport right now is the inability for the broadcasts to capture and convey the drivers' individual personalities to the audience. Those are the humanizing things that create fanbases, and maintain fanbases. NBC tried to do this with Rutledge Wood's segments, but their fatal flaw was making Rut the star of each story by putting him on camera and act like a clown....you don't need to do that, just let the reporter tell the story.
The TV coverage wasn't great. More than once they would cut to commercials as a lead change would happen, or anything interesting was on screen. Fox has yet to show pit road speeds this year and every time it annoys me.
I'm curious, can the SMT data be imported as an AI for sim racing? Could a driver go home, and pull up a certain lap and use a ghost mode to follow them? I know the setups aren't going to simulated from that data, but it would interesting to see if they could adjust their own setups to try and change it up and improve
The lower HP is all about bringing new manufacturers into the sport.
Denny has made some amazing points I'll be honest for me it was one of the more entertaining Phoenix races in a while. We need races like this we need the occasional guy just kicking ass. That's what Nascar is you get the amazing three wide finishes with the race where some guy just dominates and that's okay.
Don’t know what everyone is bitching about on other media content, I was there there was a lot of passing, Denny nailed it, good info thanks Denny
Certainly not up front for the lead, it was awful on TV
@@stellingbanjodudeAh yes, the TV broadcast problem. I swear F1 fans said the same thing (they actually did with regards to the midpack, and they're right)
but fr, the TV direction was once again terrible. Case in point, the final quarter of the stage and the utter lack of focus on Truex managing to make a James Smalls strategy look good for once, with how much of a wash the battle of the lead was going to be the second Bell passed Gibbs.
I legitimately didn't even know Truex was top-10 relevant until after he got inside the top-10.
Need 3 push to pass options and 100 HP anywhere up or down as that will b up to teams . Then let the teams tune there engines if nit allowed… Have to try something ! I’m just throwing ideas
My complaint would not be with the race. My complaint would be with Fox's coverage. Sure, show the leaders, but PLEASE show longer shots so we can see the battles.
That race was a good race. Occasionally someone wins by 5 seconds, and that is okay.
The people that disliked that race are Hendrick fans.
I am looking forward to Richmond and Martinsville. I would like the see these cars with more HP and less mechanical grip.
I agree with the vast majority of what Denny is saying here, and I do think Phoenix was a acceptable race, but that still doesn't mean there isn't some serious issues that need to be addressed.
The fundamental next gen car issue of the car being too easy to drive solo (because of the sequential shifter and lack of horsepower) , while simultaneously too difficult to pass in a pack (because of the lack of horsepower and air blocking due to a over reliance on aerodynamics) needs to be solved. Why Nascar refuses to add power back to these cars when teams, drivers, manufacturers, and fans are all asking for it is beyond me. I can only assume it's because the new hybrid engine regulations coming 2026-2027 will likely be sold to the Nascar fanbase as "look how much more powerful these engines are".
Tire fallout was much better, this is true. But stage racing never allows this to come to the forefront, unless someone self spins like you did Mr. Hamlin. So that's kinda a moot point IMO.
And then then the Broadcast, I'm so happy drivers are catching on to how bad it is when fox broadcasts a race. I'm very curious to see how much more exciting the NBC version of this race is.
In many ways, Short tracks with the next gen car have become as luck based as super speedways but in a different way, because its all about getting lucky with cautions to gain a bunch of track position and or time in the pits. Its just this extremely odd middle ground IMO, where skill does matter yet its impossible to win without getting lucky.
When he said *69 I knew he was old lol
They need much more horsepower, and I know that for what ever reason, NASCAR is strongly against it!
Maybe Nascar is afraid of engines blowing up and costing the teams a lot of money ???
I’m soooo sick of these fans complaining. They don’t know what they want. They like Atlanta but don’t want every track to be that way. They always talk about the old days as if they had incredible finishes weekly when in reality they had 9 second leads or lapped up to 6th place.
This is exactly what I was saying. When 2nd place was 10 laps down they called the good old days.
Another solid episode, love the perspective here.
C Bell dominated 😮
I think Nascar doesnt want to add more horsepower because it deters more manufacturers
I don't think it was a bad race but I do feel like the racing at phoenix has gotten worse since they moved the finish line. The restarts are supposed to be interesting with the dog leg right after they go to green but they just aren't.
NASCAR finally showed their cards today on the Morning Drive as to why they are resistant to upping the horsepower, and that is simply they don't want to change the package in the middle of trying to lure in Honda. It's as simple as that.
I really don’t buy the Honda being the issue is there a statement from them?
@UGAfan12132 Brad Moran specifically listed it as a key factor on the show today. It makes sense, NASCAR wouldn't want to advertise that they are doing anything to increase costs when that is the main reason that Honda is potentially leaving Indy.
Next Gen Cup cars are the new Spec Miata’s in SCCA . God do they need horsepower!
I felt this race was really bad. Not on part of the racing, but from the coverage by Fox. There’s a ton happening on the track but they make it seem like there’s only a few cars on the track.
For the record, Im a #8 fan so that made the day even worse but Fox needs to do something majorly different to add excitement during the race. I was on the edge of my seat so much during the Atlanta race that we bought tickets for the Sept race. After this last race I could care less if we ever go back to phoenix.
Denny. Lifelong Chesterfield County resident here and diehard supporter of yours. Quick comment: Why are you ALWAYS saying, “Fur Shur” in your podcast. We all have our little idiosyncracies. Just asking. Keep that #11 charging forward - this is YOUR YEAR!
Here's the problem with Phoenix. The 1 lap of crazy passing in the dogleg on restarts is a huge tease and makes the rest of the spread out single file racing feel like a huge disappoint by comparison. Before the dogleg gimmick the racing was consistently mediocre but it didn't set any high expectations. You knew exactly what you were gonna get. No one had any high expectations of anything more than a typical short flat track race.
The Gluck poll is: Was it a good race? To answer no doesn’t necessarily mean you hate, it just wasn’t good. Phoenix wasn’t good. It wasn’t awful, but it wasn’t good. The FOX coverage was awful.
I think the fans seeing a driver or team win that they don’t like, also say to fans that it was a “bad” race. If Chase Elliott won, a lot more fans would approve of the race.
Sometimes you gotta think of a race like wrestling. If you remember the finish and it was a fun finish or a good guy won, you went home happy. It can apply to nascar too and other sports.
thank u for adding timestamps!
Off the top when it comes to horse power. My guess would be insurance liabilities, for Nascar and the tracks.
As a fan I enjoy not knowing who or which manufacturer is going to win when watching the race.I easily picked Larson as Vegas winner week before.(good race to watch but sorta knew outcome before start).I did not see Bell as the Phoenix winner!It is nice surprise to have Toyota run well and different winner.I watched NASCAR in the “Heyday “ and seeing only 2-3 competitive cars and winners a lap/2laps or more ahead at end.BORING-unless you were a Petty/Pearson/Allison fan.The rest of cars were field fillers usually.
I decided to watch the IndyCar Race at St Petersburg because I wanted excitement. Phoenix with what NASCAR changed was not going to bring excitement. Once the 1st road course comes, then, you will see excitement....SVG is going to bring that. Kyle Busch spinning out again at the same track, that tells me all I needed to see... He needs a new CC. I want to see passing, not follow the leader!
21:20 You need to tell the NASCAR execs and rulemakers this. Not the fans.
I was at the race. My opinion is I felt it was boring. I seriously closed my eyes for a bit, I could have slept. In my opinion, the Xfinity race was more exciting.
What platform to ask Denny a question?
Fans always want the same thing. CLOSENESS. Period. Fans love Daytona and Talladega. Fans love the new Atlanta. Fans love tracks where cars are in constant tight competition. Track owners need to consult high level physicists, to understand the exact banking and configuration structures that lend towards super close racing. Tracks where cars get strung out are going to increasingly be a relic of history. NASCAR fans want action every lap. That's not possible at strung out mid-sized tracks.
The absolute disrespect Denny is showing that shoe is the real issue. My guy, save that for the work boots. 😂
As long as these cars are so dependent on aero, fans are not going to like the racing. Air blocking is the worst.
I love this guy
i think passing should be difficult, but not impossible. it shouldnt be like a super speedway where everybody is making meaningless passes, but it shouldnt be like formula 1 where theres only 1 or 2 overtakes a race. i dont mind if i takes a few laps to make a meaningful pass.
34:33 casually pull up to the track with a train engine
I like Phoenix, I don't really mind it, I know the last stage was unwatchable, but NASCAR sold out that track, and Phoenix, AZ is the 5th populous American city, that is a valuable market
I find it hard to believe that Honda is worried about the horsepower number. It's more likely they concerned with having to run a V8. The IndyCar engine package is a twin-turbo V6 making 900 horsepower. Honda makes horsepower, but they don't make a V8.
If Toyota can get 300 horsepower from a turbo inline 3 cylinder engine in a production car, they can get the same 900 Honda gets in a TT V6.
Changing the engine package would also give more differentiation between the three national series. Put TT V6s in Cup, turbo 4s in Xfinity, and NA V8s in Trucks. NASCAR is supposed to have some association with the cars we can actually go buy (Stock Car is literally in the name). Pick a NASCAR OEM (or rumored OEM like Honda) manufactured car/truck with a V8. For the cars, there's Mustang. That's it. Camaro is dead and Toyota doesn't make a V8 Camry. Toyota also no longer makes a V8 powered truck, not even the near $80k Tundra Capstone. Ford has a V8 option for trucks, but not as a standard configuration. Chevy still does have standard V8 options for the Silverado.
900hp is what made a Cup car
Denny needs a win #grumpypants
Here’s a great idea for nascar. Just have everyone start 4x4. 4 wide restarts would be a great idea and nothing bad could happen🤣
Where the More HP gang
Here
Does more HP mean more fuel use? Only reason I can see why they don't want to do back up. Fuel usage. Politics. Money may not be the deciding factor this time.
I hate that I like Denny more and more every episode...
What do I want from Phoenix? For it and the other 20+ tracks the Cup Series goes to not to be the "Championship Race."