Thank you for making these videos, I appreciate the support! It baffles me that these companies tries to appeal to makers by stealing from the very same makers..
Kokoni is calling this a translation error and points out that they are technically compliant with the CC license, but they will promise they will be working tomorrow to make sure things are more communally compliant. I'm encouraged by their quick response, and we'll see how they do: www.3dpprofessor.com/2023/01/31/is-the-kokoni-soti-kickstarter-a-scam/
I think the beard looks good on you even if it doesn’t copy well. Not interested in new printers since I bought a Bambu x1c based on your earlier video. My only complaint is that I risk injury doing cartwheels around the room at how easy it is to get great results (and it’s my first FDM printer). Thanks for the Blender channel but it taught me that it’s a little beyond me right now.
Something i noticed in their actual live demo videos is everything has a wide brim to maintain adhesion to the build plate even on prints that take up the entire build volume. I have a feeling thats going to be a huge issue for people.
The upright astronaut sill has MatterHackers logo on it!? Seriously Kokoni, don't you at least want to TRY to hide that you stole all of these models? Thanks for the great video Joe, someone has to try to hold these folks to account.
As a fellow mostly grey bearded dude, digging the beard! I get a real vib that Kokoni is driven by investors, and not 3D printing enthusiasts. Any company starting now that was driven by enthusiasts, that have been around 3D printing, would be aware of these same screw ups that have been made before, and know the community will not tolerate this kind of behavior. But as you mention, their videos are clear that they are not in touch with the community.
Nor are the videos for the community. They're trying to get that new blood and that venture capital money. But, if you ignore the community, kiss any returns on those investments goodbye.
If a CHT nozle, with less than 10° of change in the filament path is extremely hard to retract from, then how do they plan to retract from a 90° filament path? To me, it sounds like they would have to pure all that out the nozzle, which is bad for a printer with such a small build volume
For multicolor I think separating color (CMYK ink) from the volume-filling material until deposition would be the most logical approach. Even something like the Sharpie Colorizer for bed-slingers shows this can work (despite that implementation being very inefficient). And if you do that separation, then that single filament could be pushed up in such an upside-down print-head. I'm not saying that is what it does or even whether it is real or just vaporware, but I do feel there's insufficient evolution in that "colorizer" direction.
Unfortunately, this sort of thing seems to be far too common. I don't know if it's more prevalent in the maker/3D printer community or if it's that we all sort of know about eachother and keep an eye out for things like this? There's definitely a lot of user generated content for scummy companies to steal.
I tend to attribute things like this more to thoughtlessness than active scummyness. Turns out in this case they're willing to make it right. So this could be the beginning of something good.
@@3dpprofessor Unless whoever does this is unbelievably dense, there's no world where thoughtlessness can justify going to a website full of user generated content, downloading it (with licensing info and creator very clearly labeled), and uploading it to a business site or app then explicitly labeling the company as the creator. That, combined with their extremely dubious marketing video, leads me to believe they know exactly what they're doing.
@@BRUXXUS Well, it turns out they actually did save that information. They just hid it a menu deep. If you click on the disclaimer and copyright section and dig through a wall of text, in there is the the information about who made it, and the license it was released under. But it's super buried. However, it seems they will make that more prominent and forward. We'll see how they do.
It seems that they did fix this copyright issue. I can see in the app that the original creator is now finally mentioned. May i reffer to you in my video about the impression that the printer makes to me?
I think they are actually promising CMYK 3d printing, as in mixing the colors cyan yellow and magenta in the hotend to form all colors. This has been done before, Reprap Diamond is an example. But even harder to pull off than changing filaments like an MMU.
I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. There's cultural differences, experience differences, and a multitude of other reasons that play into why people may do a thing. It's how they react when they've been notified of an offense that counts more, and Kokoni has been very responsive so far.
@@3dpprofessor I have noticed on their own videos when people were being very negative they responded positively to each person. That is a small good sign. You are doing important job and trying to keep our 3DPrinting community safe and open for newcomers.
This bs happens all over and its the worse with home diy cnc hobbyists. Ive had a number of small home businesses buy my product, copy it, and resell it without my permission. One day these people are going to step on the wrong toes and someone will hunt them down. In-fact i hope they do. The Chinese are a close second for copying. I was feeding my family of 9, employees and their families. If you’re a hobbyist grow up and learn to design amd innovate your own product. Ever happens again i will drive across the states and show up on their door step.
As you point out, the Chinese have been doing that since time began, and they've been getting away with it for just as long. They make some minor change, and pretend they came up with the whole thing. Distance and a complicit legal system means they'll probably keep getting away with it. It's frustrating, but it's the state of things.
From the comments I read, the only way to get a fully colored print would be to add ink (into or onto) the filament as it is being printed. Perhaps an alcohol based ink for use in PLA. Perhaps like the bubble jet printers. It could have side by side printheads for laying down the color on the current layer. I'm not into multi-colored printing yet, so I don't know how this works in the real world. Some day, I guess. Or would you create a filament mixer from primary colors filaments? Guess I will get out my paints and brushes because I can't afford such a machine. Anyway, I love your channel.
That is certainly an option, but not one that would require 7 materials. I'm thinking this is more about changing filaments like you would by hand, but they're ignoring purge. It's probably more a case of an absolute noob having no idea what they're doing.
XYZPrinting makes an inkjet 3d printer. It has to use their proprietary filament to work and the colors don't look as good as paint. I know there's an industrial printer that can also do this, but I forget the name. I think the largest problem is the base filament is white which affects the final colors.
How dare you to copy my beard! Even the color matches! 😂 Thanks für pointing us to the next case of creator's rights violation! This really pisses me off! People investing a lot of their time and skills for other people to leverage from on a fair basis and then companies like the mentioned just skim the milk to put butter on their own bread! And for some sweet jelly as a topping, they start a Kickstarter so people can even throw money at them! Unbelievale! Again thanks Joe! And keep that beard! (and get a haircut!) 😉
I really do need a hair cut. I was going to make a comment about how I feel about this particular coloring, but considering we share it, I'll just keep that to myself, then.
We fulllly understand how much effort creators put in designing a great model! We value IP protection and copyright protection! We techinically followed the Creative Commons License, but there might be some mislead or confusions so the video might missed the information. We are working to improve the App TODAY by having more transparent displays and show our greatest respect to creators creating these models. Furthermore, we will fill our model library with more in-house designed models!
I've been resin printing for a while, I've wanted to jump over to extruding printing. I want something to make bigger prints, and articulated prints. Whats your recommendation for printers like that?
Personally I am not a fan of tiny printers. I've been in the hobby for about 12 years now. I have 6 fff printers, 2 goo printers, and a laser cutter/engraver. I will not buy a printer that isn't open source. Nor will I pay for software that will not run while not connected to the internet. This company ticks all the wrong boxes for me. Hard pass.
Apparently this one isn't as tiny as I thought. 200x200x200. Kid must have just had big hands. But, again, this isn't a printer for you. It's for beginners who want something easy. And small printers are easy to make real stable.
The probability that this 3d printer will flop is very high. If you had a well working product you will post real video of it not this. And most importantly real prints. This means at best it is an average 3d printer at a premium price point and at worst they will not deliver or deliver a barely working mess and a box of lemons :D
The people making it seem to genuinely want to get into this space and be good players in it, so we'll see. But I honestly don't think it'll deliver on 1/4 of what they're promising, which this community will crucify you for.
I did get the 200mm^3 after. The speed claims are something I'll have to test when the printer comes out (hopefully soon). But the model attribution is something I can put my hands on right now. Now if I get my hands on a printer and it can't do what it promises, then I'll rake 'em over the coals for that.
Did you check with the creator of the models? What if they have purchased it from him and slightly adjusted something so that they can claim it’s theirs? I dunno much about the license of those models but would say that your claim needs to be backed up properly. It can be a wrong one.
This reminds me of videogame companies playing fully pre-rendered CGI scenes to show off their new game, without showing any part of the actual game. Also reminds me of the Bill Hicks skit about marketing and advertising. Thanks for the headsup Professor. Also, 14:08 "I Undedrstand" Hmm 🤔
I missed the typo in their app. That's hilarious. Again, those pre-rendered cutscenes serve the same purpose. The experience of a video game is more than what appears on the screen. Same as the experience of 3D printing is more than the layer lines. So I don't fault the marketers for making the choices they did in trying to present more than a technical overview of the technology. However, if they managed to get 7 color 3D printing working with an upside down printer in this form factor, overcoming the challenges of purging with a 90 degree nozzle turn and the space requirement of purging when gravity can't help, *that* should be something they're showing off proudly. I remember when Carbon cracked fast resin printing, they had a 2 minute talk and did a full print during those 2 minutes, and it was amazing. That does more for a technology than all the investor bait in the world.
You're right! I didn't notice that they skipped out the support under the chin in the video. Well that's just sus. Though, again, I suspect it comes down to marketing. The mess of support under the chin make it look bad, so they took it out for the picture. Again, that video isn't showing the reality of the printer, but what it *feels* like.
Marketing generally runs that thin line between communicating the reality vs promising the world. I don't envy marketers. But I think this is over promising just a little.
color purging could be solved with multi hole nozzles and multiple extruders feeding each color but i can't say it can be done with 90 degree nozzle or even if 7 filement paths wouldn't restrict the movement of the head too much so i say it must be single extruding device with multiple heads or it is purging in some mysterious way on the other hand i would love to buy positron as a retail product
But they do care about the return on their investment. And so if they think the public is going to tank their hard work over IP violations, they will start caring about IP pretty quick
@@buzasandras123 That's not been my experience. Love Chinese people. Well, the majority I know are from Singapore and Malaysia, but still racially and culturally Chinese. But Chinese laws don't do much to enforce IP. That's just the way it is. I can still love Chinese people and criticize their enforcement of the law.
Thanks for this very informative video. I too am now a follower. Love the beard BTW. I was on the fence to purchase this printer but I couldn’t quite do it until I came across your video. Thank you for bringing me back to my senses! I was enamored by the printing speed as compared to my QIDI max-X. But for now, slow and steady wins the race for me. I was concerned about the inverted printing that defies gravity but I never thought about the 90 degree turn the filament would have to make. I didn’t really have the space for another printer anyway! Also, very interesting about their library of prints. Hmmmmm. Two thumbs up.
I'm curious who the Reich Brothers are? Definitely won't even consider backing this KS, but glad that I backed Bambu Labs, they are really taking 3d printing to another level.
Doesn't the positron have a 90deg heater because it tries to be very compact. I doubt they will go for that the printer looks huge. I guess it will just be an average printer, maybe they found a good way to create a multimaterial system.
People have printed upside down before, but yeah, the first fully designed printer to print upside down was the Positron for sure. They basically did take everything from his design and just made it claiming they arent. Even their heated bed is same idea as his.
Oh dear! do they think this community is full of fools and idiots? this is probably why they are marketing this to 3D printing newbies, it definitely did fly under the radar as this is the first I have heard of this machine!
I bet if someone who has their first printer, reverse engineered it and sold it as their own product, Kokoni would soon be jumping up and down about copyright. "It doesn't matter until it is MY copyright you are copying".
Hold on here, I need to get [pushes up glasses] "Well actually" on this comment. That isn't copyright. Copyright doesn't cover functional designs. The only way to protect a functional design is patent. However, they already did crib notes from an open source project, the Positron 3D printer. So if someone were to reverse engineer their printer and make their own, they'd be having happen to them what they already did to someone else.
I don’t know the company, but I agree with you, this was a strange product/ advertisement. 3D model of face photo, came out in 2017, there are several app’s doing this, and making making 3D models from a point cloud is not AI, it’s just an algorithm which has been out many years. When it comes to the 90 degree nozzle, I saw Positron had Phaetus make one that is curved so not 90 degrees, but multicolored with purging tower upside down, not sure that will be problem free. I can not understand why on earth you want to create so many potential problems.
I almost backed the project but this video made decide not to. Thank you for your in depth review of the Kickstarter Project. I've been on Kickstarter for a long time and know that many of the presentations are very often too good to be true, so you always have to be careful. I think that Kickstarter should be more diligent in checking the honesty of the projects on their site in order to protect backers (I've had my share of mishaps). Nontheless, if they repair their App and change the ownership of the models to the real developers I might still back this project.
They have corrected attribution (kind of), and I made a follow up video. But there's still a few red flags. Quite frankly, I would buy a BambuLabs CX1 with AMS. You get an actual functional product and no risk. They very clearly haven't finished developing their ideas because they haven't even shown the mutlicolor printing working.
As far as i have found out on their website, the build size is 200x200x200 mm. But at 19:45 in the video (th-cam.com/video/JjO6NpSnjxE/w-d-xo.html) you say it is 100x100x100. So what is the real build size? 200³ or 100³? 200³ would actually be fine for most of the models one would ever want to print. Of course you wont be able to print helmets and other cosplay stuff, but it will still be enough for most people.
Pardon the multi comment, seems like they're largely targeting people new to 3d printing which makes me wonder if it's nothing much to write home about, printing upside down seems interesting with FDM but also seems like it would create new problems, I think they figured out a clever mechanism, slapped together a bunch of extrudes and made it look pretty. Give me a 7 color stable standardized machine instead any day, if it's not broken don't fix it.
I suspect it's going to be, at best, a decent starter printer, and at worst the GooFoo 2. But, looking at their previous machine, they seem to have a little more savy than the GooFoo people. But I'm holding back judgement for the 7 color system until we see some test prints.
Thanks so much for this video. You’ve got a new follower! I’m not yet a 3d printer owner, but will be buying one shortly (either the Bambulabs or the Creality K1 after it’s release. This was on my radar as a potential contender, but I will not be backing the Kickstarter. This information was vital.
The reason they're giving is stability. With all the weight on the bottom, maybe it can fling things around a little faster? I mean, maybe. But why are they the first to think about that?
on the photogrammetry side, there are new processes like Neural Radiance Fields (NeRF) and nvdiffrec, the former capturing light into a unique volumetric format for light, which doesn't need an AI in the pipeline, the latter using a combination of traditional rendering and an AI to reconstruct a sdf object and texture iteratively from the input photos. NeRFs can be really fast and despite having neural in the name, there is non AI-based software that uses the format to translate models between radiance fields and meshes nvdiffrec however, and other similar solutions that are optimizing a distance field with AI and can get really accurate models if input images are filtered correctly, and I'm assuming this is what they ment by "AI" 3d model generation. Although, it could just be normal COLMAP combined with masking software to remove some noise before photogrammetry. I've made some models before with this process and worked with both Nvidia's instant-NGP github repo and made a nvdiffrec fork a few months ago to automate a video→model process. I can hop on the discord and show off some of my own results, but Google will probably get you more ideal results. I don't know if KOKONI is even using this software tho, the texture capture in nvdiffrec recreates an HDRI for the scene and wouldn't be that shiny...
I'd still love to see them on the discord. I love this sort of things. I wanted to create my own text-to-3D AI instance just to try it out, but it's a huge time sink.
You are riiiiight! Let's welcome open discussion. Our photo-to-3D pipeline is significantly different compared to COLMAP-based method! Which dosn't rely on Structure-from-Motion and Depth-Map Fusion! We have beat Google's performance in the academic paper published by our company. We have a dedicated 3D researchers and engineers. We use end-to-end trained deep neural network to perform the high-fidelity output! The final version will be avaliable at the time the new KOKONI 3D printer being shiped (approximately June). We will make a video in technical details to make it clearer!
Totally random, but I just watched your Christmas lithophane video and realized you are in Hurricane, Utah. Thought that sounded interesting / vaguely familiar and looked it up. I was there a few years ago when I came out of Zion for a bite to eat and there was no fast food! The clientele there was interesting but it was the closest Taco Bell! Thanks for listening to ramblings and I love the videos!
Hurricane has grown up a bit since then, but it's still pretty small town. Though it's gained some notoriety lately with the Freddy Fazbear franchise. Apparently part of the lore took place near here.
@@3dpprofessor Had no idea FNAF had some connection there! I'll have to check into that more. BTW, I'm a big fan of blender since even before the 2.0 series. It's definitely a tool I would prefer to use rather than "Auto-Cad" like tools since it's free and I have more familiarity with it. God bless you and your family and good luck on the new blender channel!
as a model creator it annoys me not just when companies do this but when i go onto Esty members selling my prints that are non commercial and even worse selling bad printed version of my models making my models look bad. and etsy do not make it easy to remove or complain about this. i have to contact the user and threaten then with court action if they don not remove the prints.
almost looks like they are trying to promise what only a replicator level upgraded 3D printer can promise with out knowing that the process for say printing silicates and various compounds for LED crystals would also be able to be pushed to break down into nano particles, items and make one's own consumables. (laser frequency dependent in some cases while others are an arduous separation process that requires break down into the smallest single particulate molecular shapes like completely oxygenation of say copper and carbon to get copper oxide and carbon dioxide so it can be sorted by various different attributes of the molecules into their own containers. ect. )
@@3dpprofessor odd I have been saying a lot of the same things for quite a while, since I am working on that tech with a hope of incorporating it into upgrades to allow that final replicator level capabilities. (some of the copper info I actually accidentally fell into on Robert Murray-Smith's videos years ago then just ran with it adding to things involving similar chemistry and such. Most recent though was solid state vacuum chambering ;) }
@@ThomasAndersonbsf And the fact that you're response seems to have no thing at all to do with that I said cements this. Did someone make an engagement bot that I'm benefiting from?
@@3dpprofessor nope and somehow I am wondering if this is a result of the paranoia over chatbots and deep fakes (not saying its not worrying. but I thought shure (microphone) the new chatbot could get punctuation right. I talk about my replicator stuff because i tend to be a bit one track minded. Mainly because it is incredibly important to me, I honestly think its the one and only way to be sure to avoid some serious issues, (also why that was what I saw in the fundraiser's videos you were talking about in the video, and see it in many other things, or find something that relates to it (hammer and nails sorta thing)
They might be using a version of instant-nerf. There are so many issues with this thing that no one has talked about. What happens when a print fails, it falls into the moving head and most likely breaks things. It's like putting a stick through a bike wheel. Not to mention a ton of other issues.
Thank you for making these videos, I appreciate the support! It baffles me that these companies tries to appeal to makers by stealing from the very same makers..
@@kokoni3d Did you change the "Original Creator" to the actual original creators? If not, don't act like you are doing the right thing.
@@andrewlhoover This is a translation issue, we made the change!
All the best videos start with "This was not the video I was planning to release..."
'S true.
Kokoni is calling this a translation error and points out that they are technically compliant with the CC license, but they will promise they will be working tomorrow to make sure things are more communally compliant. I'm encouraged by their quick response, and we'll see how they do: www.3dpprofessor.com/2023/01/31/is-the-kokoni-soti-kickstarter-a-scam/
I think the beard looks good on you even if it doesn’t copy well. Not interested in new printers since I bought a Bambu x1c based on your earlier video. My only complaint is that I risk injury doing cartwheels around the room at how easy it is to get great results (and it’s my first FDM printer). Thanks for the Blender channel but it taught me that it’s a little beyond me right now.
Something i noticed in their actual live demo videos is everything has a wide brim to maintain adhesion to the build plate even on prints that take up the entire build volume. I have a feeling thats going to be a huge issue for people.
The upright astronaut sill has MatterHackers logo on it!? Seriously Kokoni, don't you at least want to TRY to hide that you stole all of these models? Thanks for the great video Joe, someone has to try to hold these folks to account.
As a fellow mostly grey bearded dude, digging the beard! I get a real vib that Kokoni is driven by investors, and not 3D printing enthusiasts. Any company starting now that was driven by enthusiasts, that have been around 3D printing, would be aware of these same screw ups that have been made before, and know the community will not tolerate this kind of behavior.
But as you mention, their videos are clear that they are not in touch with the community.
Nor are the videos for the community. They're trying to get that new blood and that venture capital money.
But, if you ignore the community, kiss any returns on those investments goodbye.
If a CHT nozle, with less than 10° of change in the filament path is extremely hard to retract from, then how do they plan to retract from a 90° filament path? To me, it sounds like they would have to pure all that out the nozzle, which is bad for a printer with such a small build volume
For multicolor I think separating color (CMYK ink) from the volume-filling material until deposition would be the most logical approach. Even something like the Sharpie Colorizer for bed-slingers shows this can work (despite that implementation being very inefficient). And if you do that separation, then that single filament could be pushed up in such an upside-down print-head. I'm not saying that is what it does or even whether it is real or just vaporware, but I do feel there's insufficient evolution in that "colorizer" direction.
Unfortunately, this sort of thing seems to be far too common. I don't know if it's more prevalent in the maker/3D printer community or if it's that we all sort of know about eachother and keep an eye out for things like this? There's definitely a lot of user generated content for scummy companies to steal.
I tend to attribute things like this more to thoughtlessness than active scummyness.
Turns out in this case they're willing to make it right. So this could be the beginning of something good.
@@3dpprofessor Unless whoever does this is unbelievably dense, there's no world where thoughtlessness can justify going to a website full of user generated content, downloading it (with licensing info and creator very clearly labeled), and uploading it to a business site or app then explicitly labeling the company as the creator.
That, combined with their extremely dubious marketing video, leads me to believe they know exactly what they're doing.
@@BRUXXUS Well, it turns out they actually did save that information. They just hid it a menu deep. If you click on the disclaimer and copyright section and dig through a wall of text, in there is the the information about who made it, and the license it was released under. But it's super buried.
However, it seems they will make that more prominent and forward. We'll see how they do.
@@3dpprofessor Glad to see they made some sort of effort. Still, I don't get a great feeling from their marketing stuff.
It seems that they did fix this copyright issue. I can see in the app that the original creator is now finally mentioned. May i reffer to you in my video about the impression that the printer makes to me?
Thanks for pointing out this shameful action. Now let's hope that they come clean and fix this issue.
We are working to fix them TODAY!
@KOKONI 1 month later and nothing has changed.
Getting a model to stick to that build plate is going to make people quit 3d printing.
judging from the lack of info and vagueness of the launch video, i'd say save yourself some troubles and just get a bambulab with AMS
Thier site says the build size is 200x200x200. Not that that changes any of the points you brought up.
I think they are actually promising CMYK 3d printing, as in mixing the colors cyan yellow and magenta in the hotend to form all colors.
This has been done before, Reprap Diamond is an example. But even harder to pull off than changing filaments like an MMU.
Excellent Video. You showed quite a bit of restraint!
I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. There's cultural differences, experience differences, and a multitude of other reasons that play into why people may do a thing. It's how they react when they've been notified of an offense that counts more, and Kokoni has been very responsive so far.
@@3dpprofessor I have noticed on their own videos when people were being very negative they responded positively to each person. That is a small good sign. You are doing important job and trying to keep our 3DPrinting community safe and open for newcomers.
This bs happens all over and its the worse with home diy cnc hobbyists. Ive had a number of small home businesses buy my product, copy it, and resell it without my permission.
One day these people are going to step on the wrong toes and someone will hunt them down.
In-fact i hope they do. The Chinese are a close second for copying. I was feeding my family of 9, employees and their families.
If you’re a hobbyist grow up and learn to design amd innovate your own product. Ever happens again i will drive across the states and show up on their door step.
As you point out, the Chinese have been doing that since time began, and they've been getting away with it for just as long. They make some minor change, and pretend they came up with the whole thing.
Distance and a complicit legal system means they'll probably keep getting away with it. It's frustrating, but it's the state of things.
From the comments I read, the only way to get a fully colored print would be to add ink (into or onto) the filament as it is being printed. Perhaps an alcohol based ink for use in PLA. Perhaps like the bubble jet printers. It could have side by side printheads for laying down the color on the current layer. I'm not into multi-colored printing yet, so I don't know how this works in the real world. Some day, I guess. Or would you create a filament mixer from primary colors filaments? Guess I will get out my paints and brushes because I can't afford such a machine. Anyway, I love your channel.
That is certainly an option, but not one that would require 7 materials.
I'm thinking this is more about changing filaments like you would by hand, but they're ignoring purge. It's probably more a case of an absolute noob having no idea what they're doing.
@@3dpprofessor Form your video, I totally understood the purge process. I do this when chaging colors. Thank you for your channel.
XYZPrinting makes an inkjet 3d printer. It has to use their proprietary filament to work and the colors don't look as good as paint. I know there's an industrial printer that can also do this, but I forget the name. I think the largest problem is the base filament is white which affects the final colors.
How dare you to copy my beard! Even the color matches! 😂
Thanks für pointing us to the next case of creator's rights violation! This really pisses me off! People investing a lot of their time and skills for other people to leverage from on a fair basis and then companies like the mentioned just skim the milk to put butter on their own bread!
And for some sweet jelly as a topping, they start a Kickstarter so people can even throw money at them!
Unbelievale!
Again thanks Joe! And keep that beard! (and get a haircut!) 😉
I really do need a hair cut.
I was going to make a comment about how I feel about this particular coloring, but considering we share it, I'll just keep that to myself, then.
We fulllly understand how much effort creators put in designing a great model! We value IP protection and copyright protection! We techinically followed the Creative Commons License, but there might be some mislead or confusions so the video might missed the information. We are working to improve the App TODAY by having more transparent displays and show our greatest respect to creators creating these models. Furthermore, we will fill our model library with more in-house designed models!
just put on that ball cap, and break out that penalty marker!
I've been resin printing for a while, I've wanted to jump over to extruding printing. I want something to make bigger prints, and articulated prints. Whats your recommendation for printers like that?
All of them will do articulated prints. If you want bigger, right now I'm impressed with the Sovol SV06 Plus. But there are a ton of options.
Personally I am not a fan of tiny printers. I've been in the hobby for about 12 years now. I have 6 fff printers, 2 goo printers, and a laser cutter/engraver. I will not buy a printer that isn't open source. Nor will I pay for software that will not run while not connected to the internet. This company ticks all the wrong boxes for me. Hard pass.
Apparently this one isn't as tiny as I thought. 200x200x200. Kid must have just had big hands.
But, again, this isn't a printer for you. It's for beginners who want something easy. And small printers are easy to make real stable.
I dig the beard!
In this video review of the SOTA prototype, phone app shows copyright and details button on the bottom: th-cam.com/video/lLPJvChIwpU/w-d-xo.html
Yup. And now they have it on the front, so that's good.
It's still not what I would consider enough, but it's a thing.
The probability that this 3d printer will flop is very high. If you had a well working product you will post real video of it not this. And most importantly real prints. This means at best it is an average 3d printer at a premium price point and at worst they will not deliver or deliver a barely working mess and a box of lemons :D
The people making it seem to genuinely want to get into this space and be good players in it, so we'll see. But I honestly don't think it'll deliver on 1/4 of what they're promising, which this community will crucify you for.
Seems like your more concerned with the models which is an easy fix compared to the claims of 600 mm/s movement. Also the build volume is 200mm.
I did get the 200mm^3 after.
The speed claims are something I'll have to test when the printer comes out (hopefully soon). But the model attribution is something I can put my hands on right now.
Now if I get my hands on a printer and it can't do what it promises, then I'll rake 'em over the coals for that.
Did you check with the creator of the models? What if they have purchased it from him and slightly adjusted something so that they can claim it’s theirs? I dunno much about the license of those models but would say that your claim needs to be backed up properly. It can be a wrong one.
Which models?
This reminds me of videogame companies playing fully pre-rendered CGI scenes to show off their new game, without showing any part of the actual game. Also reminds me of the Bill Hicks skit about marketing and advertising.
Thanks for the headsup Professor.
Also, 14:08 "I Undedrstand" Hmm 🤔
I missed the typo in their app. That's hilarious.
Again, those pre-rendered cutscenes serve the same purpose. The experience of a video game is more than what appears on the screen. Same as the experience of 3D printing is more than the layer lines. So I don't fault the marketers for making the choices they did in trying to present more than a technical overview of the technology.
However, if they managed to get 7 color 3D printing working with an upside down printer in this form factor, overcoming the challenges of purging with a 90 degree nozzle turn and the space requirement of purging when gravity can't help, *that* should be something they're showing off proudly. I remember when Carbon cracked fast resin printing, they had a 2 minute talk and did a full print during those 2 minutes, and it was amazing. That does more for a technology than all the investor bait in the world.
The dinosaur model will not print that way without support under (above) the head.
You're right! I didn't notice that they skipped out the support under the chin in the video. Well that's just sus.
Though, again, I suspect it comes down to marketing. The mess of support under the chin make it look bad, so they took it out for the picture. Again, that video isn't showing the reality of the printer, but what it *feels* like.
I saw that video from the Kickstarter the other day and I thought it was entirely generated using AI. Everything about it felt off
Are they on kickstarter now? I may need to do an update.
I saw this on instagram and spent a good amount of time checking their social media accounts. It felt like a total scam…
Marketing generally runs that thin line between communicating the reality vs promising the world. I don't envy marketers.
But I think this is over promising just a little.
color purging could be solved with multi hole nozzles and multiple extruders feeding each color but i can't say it can be done with 90 degree nozzle or even if 7 filement paths wouldn't restrict the movement of the head too much so i say it must be single extruding device with multiple heads or it is purging in some mysterious way
on the other hand i would love to buy positron as a retail product
the Chinese don't care about IP
But they do care about the return on their investment. And so if they think the public is going to tank their hard work over IP violations, they will start caring about IP pretty quick
Except their own.
@@buzasandras123 That's not been my experience. Love Chinese people. Well, the majority I know are from Singapore and Malaysia, but still racially and culturally Chinese.
But Chinese laws don't do much to enforce IP. That's just the way it is. I can still love Chinese people and criticize their enforcement of the law.
Or maybe it does both
I was just trying to figure out how they finally beat the Purge block
Hopefully we'll get some answer to that soon. And hopefully the answer won't be "Well, we tried, but couldn't do it."
It looks like a resin print lol
Thanks for this very informative video. I too am now a follower. Love the beard BTW. I was on the fence to purchase this printer but I couldn’t quite do it until I came across your video. Thank you for bringing me back to my senses! I was enamored by the printing speed as compared to my QIDI max-X. But for now, slow and steady wins the race for me. I was concerned about the inverted printing that defies gravity but I never thought about the 90 degree turn the filament would have to make. I didn’t really have the space for another printer anyway! Also, very interesting about their library of prints. Hmmmmm. Two thumbs up.
With how laggy meshmixer can get on my gaming rig, I'd love to see a cell phone slice/manipulate a high triangle model lol.
It looks like they are blending RBG to make colors.
It does look like that. Which leads to the question of why they need a 7 color color changer. 5, tops.
I suspect their marketing is over promising.
I'm curious who the Reich Brothers are? Definitely won't even consider backing this KS, but glad that I backed Bambu Labs, they are really taking 3d printing to another level.
Doesn't the positron have a 90deg heater because it tries to be very compact. I doubt they will go for that the printer looks huge. I guess it will just be an average printer, maybe they found a good way to create a multimaterial system.
I would be quite terrified if my prints came alive like in these marketing videos haha.
It's only a Utah Raptor. Not like it's a carnivorous beast intent on biting your head off.
...wait.
Lol
People have printed upside down before, but yeah, the first fully designed printer to print upside down was the Positron for sure. They basically did take everything from his design and just made it claiming they arent. Even their heated bed is same idea as his.
looks like they have rotating nozzles build is 200x200x200mm
Oh dear! do they think this community is full of fools and idiots? this is probably why they are marketing this to 3D printing newbies, it definitely did fly under the radar as this is the first I have heard of this machine!
I'm of the opinion that if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. I'll skip this kickstarter even if they address their theft issues.
This is the first I heard of this company and this printer and from the video you showed it just reeks of a scam.
Just ask yourself: Does this look too good to be true‽ Does the tech involved look consistent? There you go.
Wow that’s nuts. The matterhackers astronaut is pretty bold.
It's a big money grab, little more !!!
If this is how you grab big money, I should get me some of that.
All the artists/designers need to band together and class action these clowns.
Well, this sort of litigation can be tricky especially over international borders.
However, in the court of public opinion, their trail starts now.
Ok for one it’s 200x200x200
Check out my latest video on this printer.
Wooowww......heart piercing💘..... 👍Perfect
That room is so nostalgic to the old videos
That's still where I edit my videos.
I bet if someone who has their first printer, reverse engineered it and sold it as their own product, Kokoni would soon be jumping up and down about copyright. "It doesn't matter until it is MY copyright you are copying".
Hold on here, I need to get [pushes up glasses] "Well actually" on this comment. That isn't copyright. Copyright doesn't cover functional designs. The only way to protect a functional design is patent.
However, they already did crib notes from an open source project, the Positron 3D printer. So if someone were to reverse engineer their printer and make their own, they'd be having happen to them what they already did to someone else.
I doubt a dual ball-screw 3D printer will be affordable
I don’t know the company, but I agree with you, this was a strange product/ advertisement. 3D model of face photo, came out in 2017, there are several app’s doing this, and making making 3D models from a point cloud is not AI, it’s just an algorithm which has been out many years. When it comes to the 90 degree nozzle, I saw Positron had Phaetus make one that is curved so not 90 degrees, but multicolored with purging tower upside down, not sure that will be problem free. I can not understand why on earth you want to create so many potential problems.
They want to make that many problems because it's good bullet points when raising VC money.
I almost backed the project but this video made decide not to. Thank you for your in depth review of the Kickstarter Project. I've been on Kickstarter for a long time and know that many of the presentations are very often too good to be true, so you always have to be careful. I think that Kickstarter should be more diligent in checking the honesty of the projects on their site in order to protect backers (I've had my share of mishaps). Nontheless, if they repair their App and change the ownership of the models to the real developers I might still back this project.
They have corrected attribution (kind of), and I made a follow up video. But there's still a few red flags.
Quite frankly, I would buy a BambuLabs CX1 with AMS. You get an actual functional product and no risk. They very clearly haven't finished developing their ideas because they haven't even shown the mutlicolor printing working.
As far as i have found out on their website, the build size is 200x200x200 mm. But at 19:45 in the video (th-cam.com/video/JjO6NpSnjxE/w-d-xo.html) you say it is 100x100x100. So what is the real build size? 200³ or 100³? 200³ would actually be fine for most of the models one would ever want to print. Of course you wont be able to print helmets and other cosplay stuff, but it will still be enough for most people.
Look like it's actually 200mm^3. Apparently I had it wrong. I was looking at the hand and.. apparently the boy's got big hands.
Pardon the multi comment, seems like they're largely targeting people new to 3d printing which makes me wonder if it's nothing much to write home about, printing upside down seems interesting with FDM but also seems like it would create new problems, I think they figured out a clever mechanism, slapped together a bunch of extrudes and made it look pretty.
Give me a 7 color stable standardized machine instead any day, if it's not broken don't fix it.
Nice x1 btw, looks super convenient, I've yet to venture into multi-extruders still rocking an sidewinder myself lol
I suspect it's going to be, at best, a decent starter printer, and at worst the GooFoo 2. But, looking at their previous machine, they seem to have a little more savy than the GooFoo people. But I'm holding back judgement for the 7 color system until we see some test prints.
Thanks so much for this video. You’ve got a new follower! I’m not yet a 3d printer owner, but will be buying one shortly (either the Bambulabs or the Creality K1 after it’s release. This was on my radar as a potential contender, but I will not be backing the Kickstarter. This information was vital.
Have you seen the new Prusa?
For scanning they just have to integrate Poly-Cam or Luma-Ai.
I think that's what they're thinking, but near as I can see they haven't done it yet.
The other printer of note that prints upside down is the one that fits in a filament box
I can't see the point of printing upside down , why would it print faster upside down ?
The reason they're giving is stability. With all the weight on the bottom, maybe it can fling things around a little faster?
I mean, maybe. But why are they the first to think about that?
I’ve been burnt too many times to back anything on kickstarter any longer.
Possibly a good policy.
Love the new look!!
(12:40) but is it your beautiful life, or your beautiful wife? days gone by?
Same as it ever was.
on the photogrammetry side, there are new processes like Neural Radiance Fields (NeRF) and nvdiffrec, the former capturing light into a unique volumetric format for light, which doesn't need an AI in the pipeline, the latter using a combination of traditional rendering and an AI to reconstruct a sdf object and texture iteratively from the input photos.
NeRFs can be really fast and despite having neural in the name, there is non AI-based software that uses the format to translate models between radiance fields and meshes
nvdiffrec however, and other similar solutions that are optimizing a distance field with AI and can get really accurate models if input images are filtered correctly, and I'm assuming this is what they ment by "AI" 3d model generation. Although, it could just be normal COLMAP combined with masking software to remove some noise before photogrammetry.
I've made some models before with this process and worked with both Nvidia's instant-NGP github repo and made a nvdiffrec fork a few months ago to automate a video→model process. I can hop on the discord and show off some of my own results, but Google will probably get you more ideal results. I don't know if KOKONI is even using this software tho, the texture capture in nvdiffrec recreates an HDRI for the scene and wouldn't be that shiny...
I'd still love to see them on the discord. I love this sort of things. I wanted to create my own text-to-3D AI instance just to try it out, but it's a huge time sink.
You are riiiiight! Let's welcome open discussion. Our photo-to-3D pipeline is significantly different compared to COLMAP-based method! Which dosn't rely on Structure-from-Motion and Depth-Map Fusion! We have beat Google's performance in the academic paper published by our company. We have a dedicated 3D researchers and engineers. We use end-to-end trained deep neural network to perform the high-fidelity output! The final version will be avaliable at the time the new KOKONI 3D printer being shiped (approximately June). We will make a video in technical details to make it clearer!
Soon as the video loaded, first thing I thought was beard looks good on you.
Thank you.
Totally random, but I just watched your Christmas lithophane video and realized you are in Hurricane, Utah.
Thought that sounded interesting / vaguely familiar and looked it up. I was there a few years ago when I came out of Zion for a bite to eat and there was no fast food!
The clientele there was interesting but it was the closest Taco Bell! Thanks for listening to ramblings and I love the videos!
Hurricane has grown up a bit since then, but it's still pretty small town.
Though it's gained some notoriety lately with the Freddy Fazbear franchise. Apparently part of the lore took place near here.
@@3dpprofessor Had no idea FNAF had some connection there! I'll have to check into that more.
BTW, I'm a big fan of blender since even before the 2.0 series.
It's definitely a tool I would prefer to use rather than "Auto-Cad" like tools since it's free and I have more familiarity with it.
God bless you and your family and good luck on the new blender channel!
I fear the nozzle is going to get really messy and burned.
I have similar concerns. Especially when you add color changing.
that looks more like resin printer
as a model creator it annoys me not just when companies do this but when i go onto Esty members selling my prints that are non commercial and even worse selling bad printed version of my models making my models look bad. and etsy do not make it easy to remove or complain about this. i have to contact the user and threaten then with court action if they don not remove the prints.
Looks good!
❤️
almost looks like they are trying to promise what only a replicator level upgraded 3D printer can promise with out knowing that the process for say printing silicates and various compounds for LED crystals would also be able to be pushed to break down into nano particles, items and make one's own consumables. (laser frequency dependent in some cases while others are an arduous separation process that requires break down into the smallest single particulate molecular shapes like completely oxygenation of say copper and carbon to get copper oxide and carbon dioxide so it can be sorted by various different attributes of the molecules into their own containers. ect. )
This feels like it was written in ChatGPT.
@@3dpprofessor odd I have been saying a lot of the same things for quite a while, since I am working on that tech with a hope of incorporating it into upgrades to allow that final replicator level capabilities. (some of the copper info I actually accidentally fell into on Robert Murray-Smith's videos years ago then just ran with it adding to things involving similar chemistry and such. Most recent though was solid state vacuum chambering ;) }
@@ThomasAndersonbsf And the fact that you're response seems to have no thing at all to do with that I said cements this. Did someone make an engagement bot that I'm benefiting from?
@@3dpprofessor nope and somehow I am wondering if this is a result of the paranoia over chatbots and deep fakes (not saying its not worrying. but I thought shure (microphone) the new chatbot could get punctuation right. I talk about my replicator stuff because i tend to be a bit one track minded. Mainly because it is incredibly important to me, I honestly think its the one and only way to be sure to avoid some serious issues, (also why that was what I saw in the fundraiser's videos you were talking about in the video, and see it in many other things, or find something that relates to it (hammer and nails sorta thing)
The Pool's Closed kid in the beginning was my favorite.
Did you mean to post this on a different video?
@@3dpprofessor No
@@JohnJones-oy3md What's the "Pool's Closed kid"?
the beard is 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you. I feel like the dark parts around the side and the darker mustache makes me look like a badger, but I'm gonna try to give it a year.
So here again as with many startups: Fake till you make it!
And if you don't make it, take the money and run.
They might be using a version of instant-nerf. There are so many issues with this thing that no one has talked about. What happens when a print fails, it falls into the moving head and most likely breaks things. It's like putting a stick through a bike wheel. Not to mention a ton of other issues.