True, but the IBM PS/2 line came out at the same time and ranged from $2500 for machines that few people bought (they had the XT chip in there) to upwards of $5k for the 386 chip. While dealers discounted these prices, the Apple dealers sold Macs at a little bit of a discount as well at that time (believe it or not).
To be honest, at least in Europe, repair was FBR. Changing a complete board instead of individual chips was common. We should not be blinded by the fact that the internals of the "vintage" computers look so coarse. This was state of the art back then, and the right tools were extremely expensive as well as hardware guys were a very rare species - otherwise, Apple would have been dead on arrival. Today repair seems easy and obvious, back then it wasn't.
9:10 and now there are lots of collectors out there re-capping these things, replacing tubes, converting the spinning rust to SD and CF cards, and turning completely busted ones into fish tanks.
"At the time, in 1984, we thought..." (it's 1987). Wow, back then 1 year was like 10 today... typing this on a 10-year-old laptop that still suits me pefrectly 😀
I have a Mac Plus which is upgraded from an older 128K. I love these little machines. Mine has been fully restored so it looks like it’s new and I have it hooked up so it can go online.
Don’t Forget that Gary Kildall was the inventor of CP/M and the owner of Digital Research, ao in many cases he was more knowledgeable than most of their guests.
7:33 Actually only 170K of the ROM was used. The other 80K had digitized pictures of the crew that created the product. To see the slideshow of the pictures, hit the interrupt button and, and the “>” prompt, type “G 41D89A”. Note that the only way to stop the slideshow is to reboot the machine.
Haha, love the, "Feature not a bug," spiel when attempting to sell them on (surely proprietary) multi-function cards, when they ask about there only being one slot. I definitely enjoy when companies try to sell me on overhyped kit, and then go on to backhandedly insinuate that I'm too dumb to know how to know how to fix any component, beyond dusting the screen.
@@JollyGiant19if people dont want it, don't sell it. If people are okay buying a pile of shit at crazy prizes and eating it up like a good little dog, companies will sell it. And as far as I've seen, most people with a computer even programmers don't know, don't care
The obvious reason for “open Macintosh”: no Steve Jobs. Everyone can debate which method was better. Nice to see an expansion board from General Computer. Those were the same guys who created Ms. Pac-Man and the Atari 7800.
It was also the demands of graphic designers. Apple had basically created an entire industry of computer based graphic design firms overnight, something Jobs acknowledged as needing a lot more power than the average user and Jobs did tell Andy Hertzfeldt they might need "an open model" for the graphics market. However I think he'd have likely made a very powerful macintosh for graphics users and standard mac for regular users. But Jobs at least discussed making some kind of open macintosh for graphic designers.
I temember having to Travel to US around this time and added 1 week to my itenary so I could visit CONDEX FALL - VEGAS in November. Great memories, because I purchased a 386 PC that was shipped to me in Australia.
It's a bit ironic that Charlie says that there was no way to provide the internal hard drive as an upgrade path for the 512k & Plus, but GCC (General Computer, the company that made the very accelerator that he just demoed) DID exactly that ... and even did it long before Apple released the Macintosh SE. It was called the HyperDrive and the HyperDrive 2000. The HyperDrive could be installed on a 128k and 512k, and the HyperDrive 2000 on the Plus. On the 128k version, it upgraded the RAM to 512K and added an internal hard drive. On the 512k, it simply added an internal hard drive. Later, GCC provided the upgrade that Apple said they couldn't do on the Plus, the Hyperdrive 2000: a 12MHz CPU upgrade and internal hard drive. GCC wasn't the only one, they were just the first. Other companies released a slew of upgrade boards and efficient SCSI adapters for the 512k and Plus.
I don't think heat was the issue - older harddrives needed a positive air pressure inside them to keep the read/write heads inside the drive to barely hover above the drive platters=P
Very advanced for its time that macintosh II, but the best test for the math chip or "arithmetic co-processor" should have been with a vector analysis program like a CAD app, an AutoCAD R9 Demo should have work, because was the first to run with a math co-processor back in 1987
At 15:45 he says "it's a very complicated document" on a black and white screen. Has he ever seen an even modest Amiga running an Animation at 50 frames per second in Deluxe Paint? Now that's a "complicated document!"
This was a big time because in the 70’s computers were not discrete in their operation but with this you could be completely in control of your reality practically invisibly and nobody would ever notice what you were doing. The biggest challenge would be limitations in storage capacity but if you wanted to keep your machine the 128MB of RAM would be more than enough to run a specialty operating system!
WOW! a 75w power supply! Stack on the peripheral cards! The original IBM PC was 65w, but that did not carry the CRT/monitor load like the MAC does. XT machines went to 130w power supplies IIRC.
The thing that burned power was the hard drive, which the IBM 5150 and the original Macs didn't have. The 5 MB ST506 weighed 7 pounds, drew 47 watts spinning up and 23 watts in use.
I thought the monitor just used AC hotwire bypass and thus didn't carry any load on the power supply itself. Those old power supplies got 60% efficiency, at best, so their actual DC output quite a bit lower than today's power supplies that are in the 80-90% range.
1.2MB/SEC transfer on highend SCSI drive, wow those times back then 😂 I do remember that in 1995 our veterinary customers had “high end” workstations for their practice and they had 40MB SCSI hard drives and a 60MB backup tape and backing up before taking the system apart was the procedure and the backup took 5-10 minutes. These days we download 1GB in less than a minute 😂
@@TechRyze Good point, they didn't explicitly mention safety as an issue, let alone the primary one, for not wanting users to open up the Mac SE themselves. It was probably taken for granted, but watching it now I just assumed the caution was with regard to the customer potentially damaging components out of inexperience. With the Mac II it wasn't an issue of course, not having the CRT built into the computer.
PSA to all clueless Apple haters: CRTs store high voltage, you will get a shock if you touch the proper parts inside. Maybe you should try it, it will shut your stupid mouth!
John Scully added all the add on slots in the Mac 2. Jobs would have gone ape-sh*.T over that idea. Jobs did not want expansion slots. BTW the early Mac's crashed more than Windows 3.0 and 3.1, 3.11 as I had both.
What is the FPU testing software shown at 16:17? Seems to say "Sambrera 161" or perhaps "Sombrero 161" but Googling the names yields nothing. Nothing on Macintosh Garden by that name either.
“Sombrero 161” is the name of the graphing file being demoed. The equation being drawn resembles a Mexican sombrero hat. You can see a few other demos in the drop-down menu when he goes to run it again after applying the arithmetic chip @16:39 That said the app splash screen does show for a second but it’s impossibly blurry. Now I’m on a quest to figure it out…
The Mac II looks great, but you got to look at the price tag, as the woman says. I'm sure other companies could have made impressive computers for that price.
There were plenty of other powerhouse x86 machines at that time. The problem wasn't the hardware, it was the software. You simply couldn't find any alternative GUI based system as elegant as the Mac was at that point in time. And so that was the market Apple specifically catered to.
Geoff Graham Yes, although they were insanely expensive then! Thankfully my university had a room full of them. I remember programming in HyperCard then 😁 , Photoshop 1.0 and MS Word 😉 Ahh, nostalgia
Yeah, it turns out the new Mac SE is not actually open at all since you still have to take it to a dealership for service and upgrades, just like the old ones. 🤔
24:17 One of the first remote hacking? Did those West-German hackers dial into those NASA computers or did they use the (early) internet, back in 1987???
Back then most cities had dialup access into a network called Tymnet, and through Tymnet you were able to access all sorts of government and other sites. I remember randomly trying different addresses and being told I had just connected to NASA, and I needed to disconnect immediately. Tymnet was also used as a means of getting into some of the larger networks like The Source.
Around 2:00 Gary basically says that Apple learned about open architechture (expandable Mac II) from IBM. Totally respect Gary and know about his work since PL/M, CP/M, etc.. But, for once he is dead wrong. IBM learned from Apple; namely the Apple II. Introduce in 1977 and a total success due to this very expandability. The engineers of the original IBM PC (1981) even quote it as an inspiration, and many of them used Apple IIs personally.
I disagree. In 1987 (when the Mac II was introduced) the Apple II line was still in full-scale production and still responsible for most of Apple's income. Expandable models of the Apple II (all except the //c) was introduced in 1977(ii), 79(ii+), 83(iie), 86(iigs), neglecting model updates (iie-platinum in 87, etc..). The series was not terminated until 1993. Apple was into expandability from the beginning; just not the Macs.
All the way back to the Altair, an expansion bus was standard. All the S-100 computers were actually just a bus with cards on it. The Apple II wasn't the first.
Remember also there was a counter-culture going on with Apple when Jobs was around. He hated expandability and ensured the original Mac had no such options. Prior to his departure, a secret team in the Mac division began forming to start initial development on what would become the Mac II line, including expansion ability and something consumers were begging for but Jobs firmly was against - color. They had to operate in secret since if Jobs found out what they were doing, they would be instantly fired.
@@BlownMacTruck ok fair enough. Always knew motherboards were the main one and logic board were called stuff like vga and other cards that they go on the motherboard. Obviously i was wrong.
Apple was doing plug and play in the Mac II in 1987, whereas Windows didn't have plug and play until 1995 and still was having problems. One possible correction: the Apple guy said that the Mac II's graphics system was the best by displaying 256 colors on screen at one time out of a palette of 16M colors. The Amiga 2000 from 1987 could display 4096 colors on screen at one time albeit using HAM (hold and modify) mode.
Mac computers were even more advanced than Microsoft when I was in school early 2000s. Nowadays everything has caught up with it now, so it's not really all that amazing.
@@JaredConnell Speak for yourself. The day our $2000+ Leading Edge Model D showed up the first thing we did was tear the thing open, to see how the insides were setup. What you should have said is computer/tech illiterate consumers, who were the core customer base for CrApple™ products were afraid to open a computer case.
@@looneyburgmusic i said most home users, not people like us who are watching decades old computer shows so we are obviously more technically literate than the average Joe. Most home users are tech illiterate and don't want to open their brand new machine even to install ram or something we all find simple and mundane. Just because you feel comfortable doing it doesn't mean that everyone else does. Just like most people don't feel comfortable working on their cars even doing something simple like changing spark plugs or replacing a belt, they don't want to even attempt it because they don't want to mess it up and cause more damage. Is that really so hard to comprehend? Or you just wanted to share how adept you are at using a screwdriver with strangers on the internet?
Not really arrogance, I think, but a combination of a market, as Apple sees it, for having people pay for these services. Also, more users back in that time wouldn't have been comfortable with opening up their machines.
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 go do some history and do not think about Amiga 500 i am talking hi end custom workstation class the Amiga 3000 1990 -1992 around it could cost you around 18-25k fully custom maxed. mac 2? haha that normal pc compared to that
@@dmtd2388 are you able to understand a written text, I know my English is not perfect. So again and s l o w so even Amiga fanboy can understand, this video is from 1987 not 1990 nor 1992. Where was your Amiga 3000 in 1987? Or all those fancy addons you talk about? Besides the PC in 1990-1992 had already i486DX at 25-50MHz, 25MHz about twice fast as 25MHz A3000 and 50MHz 486DX up to 4 times faster... The add on cards you could buy for PC at that time surpassed A3000 in every possible way, graphics and music including. The only workstation use worth mentioning A3000 saw in that time was Lightwave rendering for Babylon V and Seequest series, which later was finished on PC instead of A3000 for obvious reasons. Even Apple Mac Quadra was faster then A3000, and the NeXT had its NeXTcube with 68040 and DSP56001 totally wiping the floor with A3000. But then again, this video is from 1987! 3 years are a very long time in PC history. And myth Amiga just got born in 1987... So using your words, in 1987 when Mac II came out, the Amiga was like office calculator/home console when compared to Mac... You should really study the history, I dont have to, I lived those times, owning Atari ST and A1000 until I got Pentium (waiting for Apple Performa 5300 with PPC603 nobody could deliver).
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 you should study better cause i am not someone new i grown in those times i still own those machines and you keep talking about 1987 i did not mention anything about 1987 and you compare really a stupid 486 to a custom 68040 a3000 you really must be joking even with crappy software on pc it was nothing used to then office use or dos games, back then even they used the a3000 for pre render scenes for Jurassic Park and then final render farms for silicon graphics mac even copied much of the amiga special on Next tech. I seen all machines tell me back then in 1990 1992 a machine capable of high end 3d render and video editing besides the amiga or sgi none cause my ucle had a studio and had those machines 3000s and 4000s with 68060 even and the mac 2 i seen it and was nothing special then a waste of money if amiga really did not go bankrupt they would had the place of apple now
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 Everything that a Mac did, a PC did for much less cost and that relationship still exists, what the Amiga offered was much more fun at the time, and still has strong support today, I can assure you that today you cannot easily get an Amiga 3000 to buy because they are treasured and used. Who remembers what NEXT was?, it was a failure. Unfortunately Commodore went bankrupt, (and partly because the "market" leaned towards the "professional") but the Amiga was a success, and if there is a great gaming industry today, it is also due to Jack Tramiel's idea "computers for the masses, not the classes"
I met my brother's favorite college professor in the late 1970s / early 1980s and he showed me his Apple //e computer which was one of the forerunners to the Macintosh computers. I liked what I had seen, but I found out that those would always be way out of my price range!!!
@@McVaiohowever Apple did start with the original Apple computers (later referred to as the Apple 1 computers) were the forerunners of both the Apple // computers and the Macintosh computers.
@@wallacelang1374 That's not the definition of a forerunner. The Macintosh was a completely different architecture than the Apple I, II and III (which were also different from each other). Also, the Apple II line and the Macintosh line ran parallel to each other.
@@McVaio if you are going to knitpick about the technical architecture differences between various Apple branded computers (e.g. Apple I, Apple II, Apple III, Macintosh) than why not gripe about how things have changed for Texas Instruments from their desk calculator to their pocket calculator to their TI 99/4a computer system. The technical architecture will always change over time but a computer will still be a computer regardless of what its capabilities are over the years. 🤔
I think people may have been earning more back then, relatively speaking. Pay has been stagnating for a long time, probably in large part due to the downward pressure on the prices of goods we have seen during the same period (thanks to ever cheaper foreign manufacturing).
That's one thing I don't miss about this past era. Computing was very expensive and difficult to deal with if you didn't have enough money for such things. Most of us "normal folks" were relegated to 8 bit floppy disk only machines hooked up to our TVs.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Must have been the early 90s when that started to change. That is when my family, by far not a wealthy one, got a Macintosh. It was an LC. I loved it to bits back then and used HyperCard on it to make a ton of cartoons.
@@ericwood3709 That was a figure that meant that only relatively well off people were ever going to buy an Apple Mac. Computing was terribly expensive, and therefore people were having to settle for an Atari ST, C64 or a games console.
How did anyone ever use a computer with a tiny 9 inch screen like the Mac SE was equipped with? That's just stupid. The first "real" computer my father bought back in the 80's, (Leading Edge), came with a 12 inch monitor; by the time that computer was retired a few years later the 12 inch had been replaced by a 15inch.
I spent hundreds of hours programming on a classic Mac mate, and frankly though a little extra space is useful, it was pretty darn good and still would be perfectly adequate for many tasks. It was a reasonable resolution for the time. 512x342. Love the classic Macs. Very elegant. Shame we've so much bloated garbage today...
It was all about resolution. The PC usually came with an MDA card which could do 720x350 but that was pure text, not graphics. It would stay at 320x200 for graphics until the EGA card came out and it was expensive so not mainstream. The Mac's resolution was always graphics mode so even though it spec'd lower than the tex mode of the PC, it was far better than graphics mode. And the entire GUI on the mac was built on graphics mode which made it suitable for desktop publishing at the get-go. In general, if you needed to do spreadsheet, database, and non-typesetting word processing then the PC was a much better setup and we saw the PC dominate in those areas. It wasn't until graphics tech got much improved and cheap enough where the PC swallowed everything up whole.
And what you mean with that? Look example the Macintosh G4 with the side opening door... That got people wild in the presentation, that you could so easily just open the computer and have easy access to everything... And now, Apple has soldered everything in the M1 and M3 machines, even the SSD is decoded that when it dies, you can't replace it as machine doesn't accept new drive and all your data is gone, as is your computer.
It's why I went bald. I thought to myself: "Who do you think you're fooling. Certainly not yourself". I do get that the struggle is real though. Not everyone looks good completely bald. I was lucky.
Holy fuck was holland already planning that to have their own version of software to distinguisch the good from the bad guy's. Alltrough it was delayed by the dutch police department. But still it's incredible. Also that AIM system for the us military is amezing.
$3699 for the Macintosh in 1987 is the equivalent of $9934 today (2023) lol!
True, but the IBM PS/2 line came out at the same time and ranged from $2500 for machines that few people bought (they had the XT chip in there) to upwards of $5k for the 386 chip. While dealers discounted these prices, the Apple dealers sold Macs at a little bit of a discount as well at that time (believe it or not).
The Mac II was closer to $10K, people who had money didn't hesitate to snap them up.
"And as an Apple Macintosh machine it has all possible ports on it"
😂
@@hallerd Aged like bad wine? Aged like a single mom?
How things change 😂😂
@@sandwichbreath0 How so? I mean Macs still have ports.
@@jetfrog4574 I meant how Apple went on to make sure their products only work with Apple-specific chargers and ports, etc.
"Is that the end of the Steve Jobs era for good?...."
You might wanna pause that thought...
Well, it's over for sure now :-)
Even back then, they were dead against right-to-repair.
To be honest, at least in Europe, repair was FBR. Changing a complete board instead of individual chips was common.
We should not be blinded by the fact that the internals of the "vintage" computers look so coarse. This was state of the art back then, and the right tools were extremely expensive as well as hardware guys were a very rare species - otherwise, Apple would have been dead on arrival.
Today repair seems easy and obvious, back then it wasn't.
9:10 and now there are lots of collectors out there re-capping these things, replacing tubes, converting the spinning rust to SD and CF cards, and turning completely busted ones into fish tanks.
"At the time, in 1984, we thought..." (it's 1987). Wow, back then 1 year was like 10 today... typing this on a 10-year-old laptop that still suits me pefrectly 😀
Pefrectly indeed
I am stunned at how much quality there was in this television series. Gary Kildall himself, all the stars that were featured here - amazing stuff.
I have a Mac Plus which is upgraded from an older 128K. I love these little machines. Mine has been fully restored so it looks like it’s new and I have it hooked up so it can go online.
I notice all the Computer Company representatives on this show were so clear, professional and knowledgeable back then.
Because the users were professional and knowledgeable, too...
Don’t Forget that Gary Kildall was the inventor of CP/M and the owner of Digital Research, ao in many cases he was more knowledgeable than most of their guests.
The host and the program matters. I don't think any serious engineer would want to be guest of those influencers.
So thankful for this channel. I keep coming back all the time.
Ahh the Mac II. The machine I used at my first commercial art job. Fun times 🥰
IIci was the best Mac ever. Other than the C64, possibly the longest product run of any computer too.
@@rabidbigdog I actually bought a IIci, the second computer I ever owned. Did raytracing with Infini-D on it and C++ programming.
7:33 Actually only 170K of the ROM was used. The other 80K had digitized pictures of the crew that created the product. To see the slideshow of the pictures, hit the interrupt button and, and the “>” prompt, type “G 41D89A”.
Note that the only way to stop the slideshow is to reboot the machine.
I wish I could test this out
Haha, love the, "Feature not a bug," spiel when attempting to sell them on (surely proprietary) multi-function cards, when they ask about there only being one slot. I definitely enjoy when companies try to sell me on overhyped kit, and then go on to backhandedly insinuate that I'm too dumb to know how to know how to fix any component, beyond dusting the screen.
And they still do it now 😮💨
@@JollyGiant19if people dont want it, don't sell it. If people are okay buying a pile of shit at crazy prizes and eating it up like a good little dog, companies will sell it. And as far as I've seen, most people with a computer even programmers don't know, don't care
I enjoy watching these old shows. But it takes me hours to get that theme music out of my head afterward.
That guy at the end reviewing the game.. whilst wearing a cape! Hahaha proper DnD vibes right there
The obvious reason for “open Macintosh”: no Steve Jobs. Everyone can debate which method was better.
Nice to see an expansion board from General Computer. Those were the same guys who created Ms. Pac-Man and the Atari 7800.
It was also the demands of graphic designers. Apple had basically created an entire industry of computer based graphic design firms overnight, something Jobs acknowledged as needing a lot more power than the average user and Jobs did tell Andy Hertzfeldt they might need "an open model" for the graphics market. However I think he'd have likely made a very powerful macintosh for graphics users and standard mac for regular users.
But Jobs at least discussed making some kind of open macintosh for graphic designers.
Everybody: Motherboard
Apple: Logicboard
That's because they knew their customers, who thought that they could buy logic with money...
12:36 No need to worry about DIP switches, IRQs or any of that nonsense. Plug-and-play! In 1987!
Amiga 2000 had it too. Was called Zorro
The IBM PS/2 had it too.
1:31 so like how long had Stewart and Gary been awkwardly sat together silently in the dark before we joined them!???
I temember having to Travel to US around this time and added 1 week to my itenary so I could visit CONDEX FALL - VEGAS in November. Great memories, because I purchased a 386 PC that was shipped to me in Australia.
11:00 - The 5th Beatle did a great job explaining,!
The mysterious French 5th Beatle 🇫🇷
TechRyze He should sing "Michelle, ma belle...".
It's a bit ironic that Charlie says that there was no way to provide the internal hard drive as an upgrade path for the 512k & Plus, but GCC (General Computer, the company that made the very accelerator that he just demoed) DID exactly that ... and even did it long before Apple released the Macintosh SE. It was called the HyperDrive and the HyperDrive 2000. The HyperDrive could be installed on a 128k and 512k, and the HyperDrive 2000 on the Plus. On the 128k version, it upgraded the RAM to 512K and added an internal hard drive. On the 512k, it simply added an internal hard drive. Later, GCC provided the upgrade that Apple said they couldn't do on the Plus, the Hyperdrive 2000: a 12MHz CPU upgrade and internal hard drive.
GCC wasn't the only one, they were just the first. Other companies released a slew of upgrade boards and efficient SCSI adapters for the 512k and Plus.
That’s why I make it a point to never say something is impossible.
23:38. "The end of the Steve Jobs era".... oh just you wait :-D
The end of the Steve Jobs 'closed architecture' was for a while over until jobs came back in the late 90s and put a stop to all that
like a cancer he got back in.
@@TheElcentralen If only Apple had drank a bunch of fruit juice!
Oh no, Later Steve would change the fate of Pixar and Apple
@@TheElcentralen Cancer? Very poor taste, and asinine! Steve brought them back from the edge of death to the most powerful company in the world.
I gotta wonder what Gary would have to say today about right to repair.
He created the CP/M the OS which can run on almost everything like Linux today. It had a huge expansion market.
@6:45 "If you have a hard disk you have to have a fan inside the machine" huh, didn't know they ran hot back in the day.
I don't think heat was the issue - older harddrives needed a positive air pressure inside them to keep the read/write heads inside the drive to barely hover above the drive platters=P
@@ojkolsrud1OP was correct, those old hard drives put off alot of heat.
It's weird he starts saying: "This is an orphan named Lisa."
Just like Steve's daughter.
How about KAREN like plankton's computer wife, in spongebob series
Very advanced for its time that macintosh II, but the best test for the math chip or "arithmetic co-processor" should have been with a vector analysis program like a CAD app, an AutoCAD R9 Demo should have work, because was the first to run with a math co-processor back in 1987
At 15:45 he says "it's a very complicated document" on a black and white screen. Has he ever seen an even modest Amiga running an Animation at 50 frames per second in Deluxe Paint? Now that's a "complicated document!"
This was a big time because in the 70’s computers were not discrete in their operation but with this you could be completely in control of your reality practically invisibly and nobody would ever notice what you were doing. The biggest challenge would be limitations in storage capacity but if you wanted to keep your machine the 128MB of RAM would be more than enough to run a specialty operating system!
The prices of new Macs didn't change much...
Not at all really. The mac pro is virtually the same price when adjusted for inflation.
Anyone else love the old into music ?
WOW! a 75w power supply! Stack on the peripheral cards! The original IBM PC was 65w, but that did not carry the CRT/monitor load like the MAC does. XT machines went to 130w power supplies IIRC.
The thing that burned power was the hard drive, which the IBM 5150 and the original Macs didn't have. The 5 MB ST506 weighed 7 pounds, drew 47 watts spinning up and 23 watts in use.
I thought the monitor just used AC hotwire bypass and thus didn't carry any load on the power supply itself. Those old power supplies got 60% efficiency, at best, so their actual DC output quite a bit lower than today's power supplies that are in the 80-90% range.
“This is an orphan named Lisa. Lisa was a big flop as a computer…”
The real-life Lisa knows the feeling… !
When computers had their own TV show
Presented with incredibly childish "music"
@@scp3178 it was 1987 computer show. What did you expect? The FM synthesizer with arpeggios completed the scene.
we never knew it is all about mobile Show
@@scp3178>childish music
Really? It’s goofy and sucks, but “childish”? In what way?
“We’ll be back just after this break”
Doo doo doo do doo dooo do doo dooooo 🎶
20-80 mb of free space there in that hard drives :)
A very large amount of space, even in 1990s
and 1.2MB/sec, very fast...
@@pujaastikaThat wasn't a large amount in the '90s, but 80 MB was a large amount in 1987.
1.2MB/SEC transfer on highend SCSI drive, wow those times back then 😂 I do remember that in 1995 our veterinary customers had “high end” workstations for their practice and they had 40MB SCSI hard drives and a 60MB backup tape and backing up before taking the system apart was the procedure and the backup took 5-10 minutes. These days we download 1GB in less than a minute 😂
Still have my SE with designer signatures inside of it. Drive doesn't work anymore after dropping it.
All of them have those signatures
I want to see him drain the power on the main capacitor from that CRT. That would wake up Mr. Mac Man...
Yep! Not a great idea to hang around inside a CRT for the average user!
@@TechRyze Good point, they didn't explicitly mention safety as an issue, let alone the primary one, for not wanting users to open up the Mac SE themselves. It was probably taken for granted, but watching it now I just assumed the caution was with regard to the customer potentially damaging components out of inexperience. With the Mac II it wasn't an issue of course, not having the CRT built into the computer.
Mac II looks nice even now , wish apple made something like that now
except the price. converting 6400.00 to today's money is almost 17k. wow.
What you don’t like thr $10,000 cheese grater on $100 castors?
Looks like it should stay in the 80s to me
This was the year that VGA came out, as well as the 32-bit 386, making the Macintosh obsolete.
That purple transistor relay though. Could blow any time.
"there is no reason to open it"
"to protect the user"
and the sob says that with a straight face
PSA to all clueless Apple haters: CRTs store high voltage, you will get a shock if you touch the proper parts inside. Maybe you should try it, it will shut your stupid mouth!
@@mojoblues66 The average Mac user was probably too clueless to know that. Apple didn't want anyone dying from trying to upgrade their Mac themselves.
😂
How Apple was against right to repair even back in 1987 with users not able to remove/disassemble their Macs due to proprietary screws 😅😂
I think he said they started using them in 1984 😂
John Scully added all the add on slots in the Mac 2. Jobs would have gone ape-sh*.T over that idea. Jobs did not want expansion slots. BTW the early Mac's crashed more than Windows 3.0 and 3.1, 3.11 as I had both.
All the Mac os ‘s did , 8 and 9 were very buggy , thk god for the stability of x , 7 was pretty solid tbh
The music at 1:30 reminds me of some sort of weird pump. Strange sounding intro music.
What is the FPU testing software shown at 16:17? Seems to say "Sambrera 161" or perhaps "Sombrero 161" but Googling the names yields nothing. Nothing on Macintosh Garden by that name either.
“Sombrero 161” is the name of the graphing file being demoed. The equation being drawn resembles a Mexican sombrero hat. You can see a few other demos in the drop-down menu when he goes to run it again after applying the arithmetic chip @16:39
That said the app splash screen does show for a second but it’s impossibly blurry. Now I’m on a quest to figure it out…
Is anyone else wincing every time he prods the CPU?
The Mac II looks great, but you got to look at the price tag, as the woman says. I'm sure other companies could have made impressive computers for that price.
There were plenty of other powerhouse x86 machines at that time. The problem wasn't the hardware, it was the software. You simply couldn't find any alternative GUI based system as elegant as the Mac was at that point in time. And so that was the market Apple specifically catered to.
Such a nice musical screen saver, like in the series Mechanical Universe
6:02
"...and we'll just turn that around..."
Hard drive failure :(
7:25 No 640K limit! No extended/expanded RAM nonsense! Completely uniform linear address space!
Also no IRQs to worry about when adding in expansion cards. The Mac was always a very user-friendly machine.
It’s almost as good as an Amiga.
Ah, the Mac II, the first Mac I ever worked on..!
It was the Mac II that really kick started things for the Mac.
Geoff Graham Yes, although they were insanely expensive then! Thankfully my university had a room full of them. I remember programming in HyperCard then 😁 , Photoshop 1.0 and MS Word 😉 Ahh, nostalgia
Lol 30 years later and Apple still has the same philosophy of hostility towards end-user service of their products.
Darren Dupre, yes, you can’t even replace the battery on on iPad or iPhone without jumping through a Bunch of hoops.
Did he say $3699 for the SE with hard drive? Ive got one, im rich!
Is it possible to sell it in an auction or to a collector for more $$$$$???
Those leading edge PC’s look great
Your a poopy diaper
As I watch this I think of the computer store Babbage's that died. Nooooooo!
they talked about pre rendered ray tracing in 1987 now its 2019 and we've just recently got real time ray tracing
Ridiculously priced even then!
all apple products were (are) overpriced!!
@@scp3178 The are flagship
Yeah, it turns out the new Mac SE is not actually open at all since you still have to take it to a dealership for service and upgrades, just like the old ones. 🤔
Anyone who could obtain a Torx 15 long screwdriver could open it. The Mac II could be opened without a screwdriver.
We all opened them anyway.
24:17 One of the first remote hacking? Did those West-German hackers dial into those NASA computers or did they use the (early) internet, back in 1987???
Back then most cities had dialup access into a network called Tymnet, and through Tymnet you were able to access all sorts of government and other sites. I remember randomly trying different addresses and being told I had just connected to NASA, and I needed to disconnect immediately.
Tymnet was also used as a means of getting into some of the larger networks like The Source.
Around 2:00 Gary basically says that Apple learned about open architechture (expandable Mac II) from IBM. Totally respect Gary and know about his work since PL/M, CP/M, etc.. But, for once he is dead wrong. IBM learned from Apple; namely the Apple II. Introduce in 1977 and a total success due to this very expandability. The engineers of the original IBM PC (1981) even quote it as an inspiration, and many of them used Apple IIs personally.
Maybe he should have said they relearned it since the original Mac was closed.
I disagree. In 1987 (when the Mac II was introduced) the Apple II line was still in full-scale production and still responsible for most of Apple's income. Expandable models of the Apple II (all except the //c) was introduced in 1977(ii), 79(ii+), 83(iie), 86(iigs), neglecting model updates (iie-platinum in 87, etc..). The series was not terminated until 1993. Apple was into expandability from the beginning; just not the Macs.
All the way back to the Altair, an expansion bus was standard. All the S-100 computers were actually just a bus with cards on it. The Apple II wasn't the first.
Remember also there was a counter-culture going on with Apple when Jobs was around. He hated expandability and ensured the original Mac had no such options. Prior to his departure, a secret team in the Mac division began forming to start initial development on what would become the Mac II line, including expansion ability and something consumers were begging for but Jobs firmly was against - color. They had to operate in secret since if Jobs found out what they were doing, they would be instantly fired.
Lol Dark Castle. If you know then you know.
'The color-computer I have here will cost you about 65 hundred dollars.' - Apple has a long tradition... 😉
Wow what an awsome machine, I wish I would have gotten that instead of my Apple IIGs. !
I wish i had that instead of my commodore64.
+Joshua Tree CA Ahh, that sarcasm :)
Is the man at 5:11 the person Nolan's movie is entitled from?
the man, the meme
"I'm Windy Woods"
18:35 $6,500 !!!
So typical of Apple.
@erik Ok, iSheep.
That's was the price of a decent new car back then.
I still use a powerbook 100 and mac performa 6116cd everyday!
FLOP for FLOP, the Mac was more expensive than a Cray.
Most computers were that expensive back then
Os was amazing at the time
Wait till Stewart sees the ARM macs.
And what 99% of all ARM mac users actually use those craptops for.
The mac guy is sweating brahhhhh
Prices for high perfirmance havent changed. Now its 10 15 and 20 thousand.
One slot. $3800. 😂
I wonder when we went from "logic board" to "motherboard"!
Apple still uses the term.
@@BlownMacTruck still a kind of dated term IMHO don't you think so?
Nikos Kontogouris No. Especially if it’s in active use.
@@BlownMacTruck ok fair enough. Always knew motherboards were the main one and logic board were called stuff like vga and other cards that they go on the motherboard.
Obviously i was wrong.
@@BlownMacTruck at least at the PC eco system
Wow Jan lewis really hit the wall since 1985.
Apple was doing plug and play in the Mac II in 1987, whereas Windows didn't have plug and play until 1995 and still was having problems. One possible correction: the Apple guy said that the Mac II's graphics system was the best by displaying 256 colors on screen at one time out of a palette of 16M colors. The Amiga 2000 from 1987 could display 4096 colors on screen at one time albeit using HAM (hold and modify) mode.
Mac computers were even more advanced than Microsoft when I was in school early 2000s. Nowadays everything has caught up with it now, so it's not really all that amazing.
That. Was my first. Pc a leading edge found in trash and it worked on
Brings back memories. My first real computer was the Mac 512k. Then the Mac SE after that.
First Mac we owned was the LC. 40 MB hard drive!
I recall the lc had 12mb ram but only 10 was usable, I had one 😆 such happy memories
I love the arrogance of that Apple guy. "It was easy for me to open this up, but it isn't something the average user would be good at."
Well he mewnt most home users don't feel comfortable opening up their thousands of dollars systems, something that has always stood true
@@JaredConnell Speak for yourself. The day our $2000+ Leading Edge Model D showed up the first thing we did was tear the thing open, to see how the insides were setup.
What you should have said is computer/tech illiterate consumers, who were the core customer base for CrApple™ products were afraid to open a computer case.
@@looneyburgmusic i said most home users, not people like us who are watching decades old computer shows so we are obviously more technically literate than the average Joe. Most home users are tech illiterate and don't want to open their brand new machine even to install ram or something we all find simple and mundane. Just because you feel comfortable doing it doesn't mean that everyone else does. Just like most people don't feel comfortable working on their cars even doing something simple like changing spark plugs or replacing a belt, they don't want to even attempt it because they don't want to mess it up and cause more damage. Is that really so hard to comprehend? Or you just wanted to share how adept you are at using a screwdriver with strangers on the internet?
Still at it today with the arrogance, acting like end users can't operate a microwave nonetheless an Apple product.
Not really arrogance, I think, but a combination of a market, as Apple sees it, for having people pay for these services. Also, more users back in that time wouldn't have been comfortable with opening up their machines.
Think about today we are watching these videos on a smartphone
Macs and PCs where just office calculators in stoneages compared to Amiga Workstations and SGI
dude, this was 1987, Amiga just started on and the Mac II was already much farther...
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 go do some history and do not think about Amiga 500 i am talking hi end custom workstation class the Amiga 3000 1990 -1992 around it could cost you around 18-25k fully custom maxed.
mac 2? haha that normal pc compared to that
@@dmtd2388 are you able to understand a written text, I know my English is not perfect.
So again and s l o w so even Amiga fanboy can understand, this video is from 1987 not 1990 nor 1992. Where was your Amiga 3000 in 1987? Or all those fancy addons you talk about?
Besides the PC in 1990-1992 had already i486DX at 25-50MHz, 25MHz about twice fast as 25MHz A3000 and 50MHz 486DX up to 4 times faster... The add on cards you could buy for PC at that time surpassed A3000 in every possible way, graphics and music including. The only workstation use worth mentioning A3000 saw in that time was Lightwave rendering for Babylon V and Seequest series, which later was finished on PC instead of A3000 for obvious reasons.
Even Apple Mac Quadra was faster then A3000, and the NeXT had its NeXTcube with 68040 and DSP56001 totally wiping the floor with A3000.
But then again, this video is from 1987!
3 years are a very long time in PC history.
And myth Amiga just got born in 1987...
So using your words, in 1987 when Mac II came out, the Amiga was like office calculator/home console when compared to Mac...
You should really study the history, I dont have to, I lived those times, owning Atari ST and A1000 until I got Pentium (waiting for Apple Performa 5300 with PPC603 nobody could deliver).
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 you should study better cause i am not someone new i grown in those times i still own those machines and you keep talking about 1987 i did not mention anything about 1987 and you compare really a stupid 486 to a custom 68040 a3000 you really must be joking even with crappy software on pc it was nothing used to then office use or dos games, back then even they used the a3000 for pre render scenes for Jurassic Park and then final render farms for silicon graphics mac even copied much of the amiga special on Next tech.
I seen all machines tell me back then in 1990 1992 a machine capable of high end 3d render and video editing besides the amiga or sgi none cause my ucle had a studio and had those machines 3000s and 4000s with 68060 even and the mac 2 i seen it and was nothing special then a waste of money if amiga really did not go bankrupt they would had the place of apple now
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 Everything that a Mac did, a PC did for much less cost and that relationship still exists, what the Amiga offered was much more fun at the time, and still has strong support today, I can assure you that today you cannot easily get an Amiga 3000 to buy because they are treasured and used.
Who remembers what NEXT was?, it was a failure.
Unfortunately Commodore went bankrupt, (and partly because the "market" leaned towards the "professional") but the Amiga was a success, and if there is a great gaming industry today, it is also due to Jack Tramiel's idea "computers for the masses, not the classes"
19:41 Me too, matey.
I met my brother's favorite college professor in the late 1970s / early 1980s and he showed me his Apple //e computer which was one of the forerunners to the Macintosh computers. I liked what I had seen, but I found out that those would always be way out of my price range!!!
It wasn't the forerunner of the Macintosh.
@@McVaiohowever Apple did start with the original Apple computers (later referred to as the Apple 1 computers) were the forerunners of both the Apple // computers and the Macintosh computers.
@@wallacelang1374 That's not the definition of a forerunner. The Macintosh was a completely different architecture than the Apple I, II and III (which were also different from each other). Also, the Apple II line and the Macintosh line ran parallel to each other.
@@McVaio if you are going to knitpick about the technical architecture differences between various Apple branded computers (e.g. Apple I, Apple II, Apple III, Macintosh) than why not gripe about how things have changed for Texas Instruments from their desk calculator to their pocket calculator to their TI 99/4a computer system. The technical architecture will always change over time but a computer will still be a computer regardless of what its capabilities are over the years. 🤔
@@wallacelang1374 I'm not nitpicking. The Apple IIe is just not the forerunner of the Macintosh. The Lisa was.
So what do u do if u want to plug more than one expansion board?? Thus begins the beginning of the end.
4:08 I hate Becky so much! :{J
Apple was against "Right to Repair," _before_ they were against "right to Repair!"
6.5k for a Mac. Turns out Apple has actually managed to drop prices through 30 years of inflation.
2019 mac pro says hi.
Is it true that the German hackers tried to get the V2 files back from NASA?
Anyway, great show, well dressed presenters. Good old times...
19:18 Oh my god. It's Pat from Ghosts!
So the Hacker group Anonymous has been around sin the mid 80s
Wow, that Mac II with a 40 Mb HD was $6500 back in 1987. That's $14444 in today's money!!! You could buy a nice 2nd hand car for that!!
I think people may have been earning more back then, relatively speaking. Pay has been stagnating for a long time, probably in large part due to the downward pressure on the prices of goods we have seen during the same period (thanks to ever cheaper foreign manufacturing).
That's one thing I don't miss about this past era. Computing was very expensive and difficult to deal with if you didn't have enough money for such things. Most of us "normal folks" were relegated to 8 bit floppy disk only machines hooked up to our TVs.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Must have been the early 90s when that started to change. That is when my family, by far not a wealthy one, got a Macintosh. It was an LC. I loved it to bits back then and used HyperCard on it to make a ton of cartoons.
@@ericwood3709
That was a figure that meant that only relatively well off people were ever going to buy an Apple Mac.
Computing was terribly expensive, and therefore people were having to settle for an Atari ST, C64 or a games console.
How did anyone ever use a computer with a tiny 9 inch screen like the Mac SE was equipped with? That's just stupid. The first "real" computer my father bought back in the 80's, (Leading Edge), came with a 12 inch monitor; by the time that computer was retired a few years later the 12 inch had been replaced by a 15inch.
I spent hundreds of hours programming on a classic Mac mate, and frankly though a little extra space is useful, it was pretty darn good and still would be perfectly adequate for many tasks. It was a reasonable resolution for the time. 512x342. Love the classic Macs. Very elegant. Shame we've so much bloated garbage today...
It was all about resolution. The PC usually came with an MDA card which could do 720x350 but that was pure text, not graphics. It would stay at 320x200 for graphics until the EGA card came out and it was expensive so not mainstream. The Mac's resolution was always graphics mode so even though it spec'd lower than the tex mode of the PC, it was far better than graphics mode. And the entire GUI on the mac was built on graphics mode which made it suitable for desktop publishing at the get-go. In general, if you needed to do spreadsheet, database, and non-typesetting word processing then the PC was a much better setup and we saw the PC dominate in those areas. It wasn't until graphics tech got much improved and cheap enough where the PC swallowed everything up whole.
Wow, paying double the price for a colour screen and HDD... We don't know how lucky we are!
Apple still charges a hefty mark up for storage space. Most companies are following along.
Steve jobs philosophy was the worst thing to ever happen to computer industry
The industrial revolution was a disaster for the human race
No, it was the consumer's embracing of him that was. Even so, back then Apple was a very small market share compared to the total.
And what you mean with that?
Look example the Macintosh G4 with the side opening door... That got people wild in the presentation, that you could so easily just open the computer and have easy access to everything...
And now, Apple has soldered everything in the M1 and M3 machines, even the SSD is decoded that when it dies, you can't replace it as machine doesn't accept new drive and all your data is gone, as is your computer.
Computers were waaaay too expensive
I just fixed my 2011 mac mini and got it all souped up after the apple nerd store people couldnt fix it.
How Is Apple Even Still Around?
yuuuuup@@evhvariac2
Because of the mindless consumerism
You gotta have a Fan inside a machine. Mac included :-)
Stewart's comb-over was an epic effort. Today's men would just shave it off lol.
It's why I went bald. I thought to myself: "Who do you think you're fooling. Certainly not yourself". I do get that the struggle is real though. Not everyone looks good completely bald. I was lucky.
Holy fuck was holland already planning that to have their own version of software to distinguisch the good from the bad guy's.
Alltrough it was delayed by the dutch police department.
But still it's incredible.
Also that AIM system for the us military is amezing.