The term "Christian Nationalism" is a new term in our society, but what does it mean? Hear from Paul Basden on how it is affecting our culture. prestontrail.org
That is theologically and historically false. If what you say is true...there could only be individual no Christian families, or communities. If Jesus Christ is Lord. Then is good and necessary to pass laws in accordance with this end.
@@felixguerrero6062 It is not historically false. Nations are on a much bigger scale then small communities. And operate differently. Lots of people, lots of different POVs lots of thoughts (even if many of sheepified minds).
@@felixguerrero6062 “there has never been a literal Christian nation in this world. The only Christian nation is the gathered communities of Christian believers all over this world” Alexander Campbell American reformer.
As a devout Christian I really appreciate this vid..great job! I honestly think far too many American Christians have replaced the Gospel with politics, & it pains me to see so-called Christian leaders promoting politics, it dilutes the Gospel!
Thank you for your reply. There's no doubt that politics is with us to stay, and we have to learn as Christ-followers how to be good citizens and good patriots, while still seeking first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.
They have taken Jesus right out of their beliefs and have replaced Jesus with themselves and their insatiable hunger for power. Christian Nationalism is so anti-Christ its not even funny. Any Christian who believes that they deserve a privileged position in the public space by virtue of being a Christian is following something, but it's not Jesus. Christian Nationalism fear and despise Sharia Law for example, yet seem to have absolutely no problem pushing Christian dogma into Government. I mean, what's it gonna be? You can't have it both ways. In my opinion, the greatest threat to the US right now is the rise in Christian extremism.
@@zZavies wasn’t there somebody that said something about give to Caesar what is Caesar’s? At least to that person religious piety and political participation seemed to be separable. If the suggestion though is that a particular religious morality should be enforced via political power, how do we go about deciding what that looks like exactly? Should we go with Catholicism since this is the largest sect of Christians, and force you and your family to go to mass every Sunday by threat of prosecution? Or should we dissolve the military wholesale and outlaw self-defense in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount teaching that we are not to resist evil with violence?
It is so refreshing to hear someone speaking the truth about American history. Our country is not and never has been a Christian nation even if the majority is Christian. You are indeed right, a country can not be Christian but people can. The Puritans and the Pilgrims wanted to create a theocracy but they were not among the Founding Fathers. Neither were the Native Americans, the Spaniards in the Southwest, the French in Louisiana, nor the Russians in Alaska. The Founding Fathers founded our nation with no state religion or an establishment of religion of any kind. It is scary to hear people proclaim that we were always a Christian nation because the Founders were devout Christians who founded America on the Bible. It is scary because it is not true but apparently millions think it is true and they feel persecuted that they can not force their version of Christianity on the rest of us. Thank you from a lifelong student of history.
Thank you so much! I’m your friendly American atheist. I’m the person that keeps her mouth shut to try to get along with my neighbors. I am American too. My parents and grandparents fought against fascism and communism. I value democracy too. I very much appreciated this video. I wish I saw more Christians who believed this way. Thank you for bringing up social media. It’s unfortunate that some people believe almost anything. I like that you gave some useful advice. Thank you.
Jayne, thank you so much for responding to my talk. Thank you also for seeking to be respectful to those who disagree with you (and vice versa). America needs a lot more of that right now. I have several friends who are atheists or agnostics. I respect their viewpoints, but of course I wish they could find a reason to believe in God. Speaking of ... I have 9 brief talks on TH-cam for those who don't believe in God, but are willing to re-consider. The talks are 5-7 minutes long and are entitled "Really Big Questions." I address issues such as why does suffering occur, why believe the Bible, why are Christians hypocritical, etc. I don't appeal to the Bible, assuming that those who watch don't believe it is trustworthy. Instead I appeal to reason. If it sounds interesting, I hope you'll watch one or two and let me know what you think. My best, Paul
I’m an atheist who also thanks you for your honesty. I use to be silent but now proudly say I’m an atheist when I’m asked or if the subject comes up. As a senior I’ve just met too many immoral Christians and too many moral humanists to buy in.
Fair enough, but odd that you would use the word “moral” and give weight to it as a persuasive power. Without God what makes morality moral anyway? Being persuaded by a subjective idea may be. Good enough for you, but the very idea of some kind of objective morality im would indicate some grounding or concrete idea of the concept of good and evil. Without God , I don’t see how good or evil objectively exists . So to accept that morality exists as an objectively reality involving good and evil proves GOD . If it’s subjective , we’ll then who cares it’s just a matter of opinion
Jayne: I am also a friendly American atheist. I agree with you on everything you said. As far as social media, my opinion is that if the cellphone had never been invented, we would not have all of this vitriol and hatred today. I think what most Christians do not understand is that we were once believers, but reason, logic, facts, and evidence led us to obtain better critical thinking skills and, therefore, reject the claims of the supernatural. ☮
Thank you so so much. Your video brought me to tears. Part of the reason I left the church was due to what I now understand as Christian Nationalism. I don't understand all the hatred and demonization of anyone who isn't exactly the same, and I am heartbroken.
I agree that the attitudes many Christian groups have towards anyone not like them is a major turn off. However, Christian Nationalism is another discussion entirely.
By this logic he can't even call the church Christian. Also, he uses heuristics all the time. It's impossible to get through life without them, so his challenge at the end isn't truly a fair one.
The point is a church is a construct. You can't baptize a church. It cannot learn, confess, or reason. It's an idea. The people inside that church is what makes it christian. A person can be Christian, a church is a concept/name, based on what this PEOPLE believe.
Paul! Thank you for this. More churches should do this and speak out against Christian Nationalism. I will be honest. The WORST thing for the Christian message has been the rise of Christian nationalism. It is one of the things that made me start questioning my faith and eventually losing it. Again thank you for this and it is great to see more and more church leaders speaking out about the fallacy of Christian Nationalism.
Irish man here, so no dog in this fight but when a man makes a historical argument and tries to back it up with “I’ve got an advanced degree IN THE AREA of history”…be suspicious and when he doesn’t respond to logical critiques of his position (see comments) be even more suspicious.
It’s actually a mix of both stories really. This nation was undeniably founded by both Christians and some who where on the fringes of fundamental Christian beliefs (but still viewed Christian morality in high regard) BUT none the less founded country on Christian principles. Just because some didn’t claim Christianity (overwhelmingly most did) doesn’t mean we were founded on principles that are divorced from biblical foundations. They established our government so we didn’t have a particular denomination on purpose as the head of government in order to avoid another catholic church style situation in England. This allowed for denominations and religious liberties to thrive (even non Christian religions). It boils down to this.. government makes laws - do we want a government founded on morality found in scripture? Or a morality found in …something… else? It’s not about turning all of the US Christian and rewarding only Christian’s but returning foundations of government to Christian principles so religious liberties can thrive. The countries with the most freedoms today were founded on Christian beliefs. It’s a no brainer.
You can also find proof of this simply by looking at the reasons why some of the early settlers came to the United States and the governments that existed in Europe at that time. Some of the first settlers that came to America were coming here due to religious persecution, simply put their version of Christianity wasn't the predominant version that controlled the government. So why would anyone think that they would be okay with the government of their new land following that same path? On top of that the English King that our Founding Fathers were fighting had his position due to the belief of divine right, it was literally the case that he was King because God chose him to be King. And the church was so powerful that they could literally take a person's land simply by excommunicating them. They would never set up a government where any one religion had that much influence or control over the new government. The sad thing is all we have to do is look at Iran and see what happens when a specific religion gains too much power in a secular government. And now these Christian Nationalists want to do the same thing with the United States, just with a different religion.
Great overview of the facts of American religious history. It should be re-released now, in time for the 2024 election system. Christian nationalist should also read 1 Sammuel Chapter 8.
I'm just a high school graduate and I love history.I took 4 years out of my life to study all the american presidents from Washington to Eisenhower. I love my Lord and savior Jesus and wanted America to be a christen nation, but I came to the same conclusion as you. Thanks for agreeing with me...lol a lot of my friends didn't. Thanks again Grace and Peace to you.
“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition. ~George Washington
There’s a third story, Pastor Paul. A community of Christians who aren’t ashamed of their nationality (ethnos), who love their country and their countrymen, and who seek to vote and act for the health and well-being of their own people, and who desire to see their own nation, along with all nations, recognize the Authority and Love of Christ in all things, for the good of all people. What should we call that?
Stop conflating with constructive criticism of america and calling out the racism and intolerance with being ashamed of America. There’s always been that in American history lol. When u say you love your fellow country men and women then why is taxes to fund socially beneficial programs seen as unfair or irresponsible but when corporations or military gets billions and mismanage their finances not a single complaint? Last point enforcing the authority of Jesus Christ is laughable in its own. If Jesus is God then why does he need you as a sinner to speak for him. Last I checked if Christianity is truly a personal relationship with God God will reveal himself to them. I mean if u truly believe God is all powerful like the fact u can’t even see the irony in that statement in itself is wild
@@Lightlinefisherman It doesn’t sound like you are truly informed on either the idea of Christian Nationalism or what having a relationship with Jesus looks like. I take it from your last paragraph you also don’t have an understanding of the Biblical God… No condemnation here-I was there too, just lots of basic fallacies in your comment that would be cleared up with some reading.
@@Lightlinefisherman Have you read the Bible? The New Testament specifically? Have you read any “real” literature on Christian Nationalism? Not crackpot ideologues, but true believers.
🤔 so are you arguing that an entity/corporation cannot be a Christian, and only individuals? Ok , but an organization can build upon the precepts of Christ or Christianity as they understand it and can be called a “Christian organization” just as much as Saudi Arabia can be considered a “Muslim” nation. It’s splitting hairs. This national founders understood that inalienable rights must have ontological grounding beyond the epistemic limitations of state or human assertion , that grounding was declared to be endowed by our “Creator”. To suggest that the founders believed this creator to allah , Buddha or harryKrishna would be laughable. Whether someone believes in Christ or not , I cannot imagine Christian nationalists disregarding the rights of others when the rights of the atheist , Jew, or otherwise have rights grounded and given by God .
Hey, there, really glad to see more churches speaking out about this issue. I do think it's important to mention some of the more insidious aspects of Christian Nationalism such as racism and sexism. Still, lots of really salient points here. Thanks and God bless.
I appreciate your response. It reminds me of two things that are important. First, every "ism" is idolatry, i.e., we worship something other than God (e.g., secularism, liberalism, materialism, etc.). Second, idolatry always leads to dehumanizing others (read any of the Prophets in the Old Testament). Worshiping the Canaanite god Baal always led to injustice and violence. So, it's no surprise that as an "ism," Christian Nationalism can lead to racism and sexism.
@@fivebrosstopmos You are right that "ism" points to "belief in." What I'm saying is that every "ism" I know of goes beyond simple belief to a deep belief that leads to worship, meaning dedicating one's life to that entity. For example, Communism leads to worship of state-controlled economics; capitalism leads to worship of the free market; ditto for Marxism, humanism, Darwinism, etc. And by "worship," I mean building your life around something and finding ultimate meaning in it. Therefore, "nationalism" means building one's life around one's nation and finding ultimate meaning in it. Nationalism has happened throughout world history in countries on every continent. Since Jesus said, "Seek first God's Kingdom and his righteousness" (Matthew 6:33), I believe nationalism is dangerous and sinful, and must be avoided. We can love our country, but if we are Jesus-followers, we may not worship it ... or anything/anyone other than Jesus. Hope that makes sense. Thanks for commenting.
@@paulbasden8431 That's the way some isms go, in absence of a higher belief, but that is not the way they are required to go. Jesus says seek ye first, which means we may have something second, such as nationalism, especially when we are a prophesied nation.
I do have a deep sadness with how the indigenous people here were treated by many of our ancestors, and I know not all our ancestors were intentionally terrible , but nobody can deny that the indigenous peoples were largely treated terribly. Unfortunately some are still are treated terribly. I think we all have a responsibility to do our part to make sure we treat ALL people with dignity and respect. Period.
They treated one another horrendously. Before anyone got here, they are covered at one another’s land. They all had borders, and they didn’t warn you if you crossed into their border, they killed you. They didn’t build any schools or churches are hospitals, why feel sorry for them?
Quite true. America was not founded as a Christian nation. But neither was it founded as a nation neutral towards religion…and most certainly not as a secular nation. It was founded as a theistic nation. Or basically, as we would describe it today, a Judeo-Christian nation. So, of your two tales, the former is indeed mythological, but the latter is outright historical revisionism. Our founding was far closer to aligning with Christian Nationalism than Secular Nationalism. It’s just a fact.
If founded as a Christian nation (ie. Tribalism) - then why did they treat the Native Americans so poorly? Why wouldn't those founders have wanted to treat them with love and compassion under Christ? I cannot see a nation (ie. physical land-mass tribal construct claiming natural resources for themselves) try to base laws on religion at all. I just don't get the aspects of how Christian and Jewish are all based on land (controllable resources) when isn't the glory to be found in Heaven based on how we treat each other here? Currently "Christian" Nationalists (ie. simply Nationalists) want to put up walls, lock people out and take away rights and base it on writings of sometimes one man who was inspired to write 2000 or less years ago. If Jesus didn't say it - I sometimes don't want to hear it. I am wondering where Jesus said "put up walls, own the land, keep others out and use armed services to ensure tribal success and be sure to tax everyone as much as possible to pay for it all (and don't forget to give 10% to your church as well)."
@@johnmcvicker6728. Your reply, while outwardly appealing, seems unnecessarily naive. Every single country (and semi-autonomous territory) on the face of the earth either has a standing army or is protected by a colonial power or military alliance (like NATO). Everyone has borders, many of them with fences or walls. Pretty much everyone keeps certain people out and prioritizes its own citizens. This is how the world is run. And it is how it has always run.
@@johnmcvicker6728. And my guess is that you are a Christian “Familiyist.” And by that I mean that you have a fence around your house (or a lock on your door). Certain people are let in and others are kept out. If this is not so, publish your address, and my family and I will come squat in your house. But don’t worry, we will thank you profusely for your marvelous personal model of Christian charity!
@@hanssvineklev648 It's great if we like tribalism and that helps us keep economy growing (defending and supporting nationalism times 160 countries). Will this planet ever evolve into a one-tribe world?
@@johnmcvicker6728. My goodness! Would you want it to?? Such a scenario scares me more-much more-than some goofy, redneck white supremacists taking over our country. There would be literally nowhere to flee. A One World government is going to have a particular worldview in order to be stable. And woe to them who think differently! I’m not sure I can think up anything worse than such an eventuality.
Let me preface my comment by stating that I am a relatively "novice" Christian... I have only been attending church as an adult for the past two years, and there is a lot I still need to learn about scripture. One of our pastors recently gave a sermon warning about nationalism and idolatry, that it is basically a zero-sum game in terms of honoring Christ versus loving one's country, for example. And that got me thinking, it is really a zero-sum game? Can we not fully honor Christ while still honoring our mother and father, and by extension our family, our community, and our nation? Did the Great Commission not command Christians to literally disciple the nations of the world? Some would argue that nations themselves can't be "Christian nations" since they don't have immortal souls and cannot be Christian... if that is true, why did Jesus tell us to do it? Pastor Doug Wilson makes a compelling argument along these lines. I am aware of the criticisms of the man that are floating around the Internet, but focusing simply on theology and ignoring that stuff, I'd be curious to hear a rebuttal to his theological argument on the matter, which seems very well reasoned. Thank you. th-cam.com/video/z3xnRKs3CHY/w-d-xo.html
Chris, great point. I agree that "either/or" thinking is not helpful for complex topics. In Luke 20:20-26, Jesus called out his enemies for offering him an "either/or" question when the topic was far too important to limit to a simple Yes or No. Keep up the good work, Paul
The work of the Gospel is to make peace between men and God, and wherever a heart surrenders to God the spirit of militarism and *nationalism* must go. {November 26, *1896* -- PTUK}
@@paulbasden8431 It was a Christian publication out of the UK. Also, plenty of Biblical evidence. Regarding militarism: We are called to be a witness (martyr). The Greek word for witness is martyrion. This is hardly known or respected. Also, Romans 12:9-21 is clear regarding our relationship to mankind. Love is harmless (Romans 13:10). On nationalism: Sadly, Israel failed to go to all nations and spread the gospel. They thought God was only about the nation of Israel, but Jesus showed them He was the Savior of the WORLD. We are told that we’re “strangers and pilgrims on earth” (Hebrews 11:13-16), and we are to have the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:5). Therefore our “kingdom is not of this world” and we are not to fight except to exercise the fight of faith (John 18:36; 1 Timothy 6:12). Blessings
Well, THAT wasn't what I expected! I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation, Sir. It wasn't hazy or maybe. It was verifiable. I'm not a Christian: it's a choice I've made. But it's disappointing to realize, from acquaintances, that so many Christians don't understand the New Testament is about the spiritual, not the corporeal.
So two questions for you as you ask people not to pass on information that has not been verified. How did you come to know about Christianity? how exactly did you verify Christianity?
I agree that a nation nor a business cannot be Christian and the push to make it so today comes out of fear and the desire to protect against the “anything goes” destructive immorality that’s gotten out of hand in our society.
Businesses are not the arm of the government unless owned by the government thus business can turn such places into living breathing profit making churches or a giant toilet seat.
I am a born-again Christian. Not bragging by any stretch. That is just me. This guy is right on target. My home in Heaven is not assured by my citizenship. Pilgrims came here for religious freedom. The separation of Church and State is important. For example, my heart is all for a Christian coach reading Scripture before a football game to his players. But...my blood would boil for a Muslim coach to read from the Koran. You get my point. I don't want teachers praying with my kids, but they better not keep my kids from praying over their noon meal. Mr. Basden is a smart dude. True story...in 1988 while providing security as a young Army NCO in the Honduras, my Food Service SGT came dragging a Catholic priest to me complaining about the priest stealing the garbage. The issue was the regulations state that trashed food remnants must not be consumed. The priest was taking our garbage 3 kilometers to his starving village. The priest left with my blessings to take all of our garbage, with some sacks of potatoes that were more than we could use, every day. Yes, I violated Amy Regulations. I think the priest was a true servant of God, even though I was a devout Baptist.
How about being a Christianized people? The Pilgrims as well as the Puritans had a profound impact upon the Colonization of the country. Your point is well made but it falls short because of the influence of Christianity in early America. Christian denominations came and flourished with their Protestant work ethic. What we have now is secularism, it’s getting hard for businesses to find help. We were a Christianized people, we are no more
I have been a Christian for many years and am exploring the meaning of Christian nationalism. It was mentioned that a county cannot be Christian, only people can be Christians. Question: Is Israel a Jewish state? Is Sadie Arabia a Muslim county? Is China a Communist county? Etc.
Thank God. I'm not a theist, but I appreciate you speaking the truth. I'm terrified at the theocratic arm of the Right, and I'm hoping more moderate Christians speak up! I have a whole family of Christians who are pro-choice. Maybe you can talk about the history of abortion - how the clergy played a big role in opening up the first legal abortion clinic in New York! Really interesting how religious leaders helped women get abortions back in the day - they focused on showing compassion to women in troubling circumstances.
3:27 he also longs to bless all nations, and this blessing comes through Christ, properly. (remember that I am speaking in agreement with you that the church has its role and its role is not to bear the sword). You are correct that we should be more clearly teaching the two kingdom idea that the reformers finally understood was correct (although they took a while to get off the ground with it). The problem comes when you have Christians in government having to understand their role as Christians both within the church and in enforcing the law. That has got to be difficult no matter how theologically astute you are. And I would say the percentage of Christian people who are theologically astute is very small in the first place.
So my take in things is the pilgrims did want to start a Christian nation. This was far before 1776. That background training in Holland and the Mayflower contract and more. So perhaps the uniqueness and exceptionslism of America is where I land in this. That Christian principles are required for a successful nation. And that God will bless a nation that follows him. This video may explain a bit where I stand. th-cam.com/video/1p-CnfnsxK8/w-d-xo.html
I'm an atheist/agnostic who often wonders how this country is going to move forward under the yoke of religious fundamentalism on both the right (Christian nationalism) and left (what John McWhorter calls "The Elect"). Thank you for this video. I really appreciate your focus on truth.
Stop your false equivalency argument, it doesn't make sound like an intellectual. Both sides are not the same. Equivalent of conservative religious nuts does not exist on the left. Liberals never tried to overthrow an election.
@@zartosht06 No, leftists never tried to overthrow an election. But they've vastly succeeded in overthrowing education and "color-coding" people by race. We the see the violence taking place in our cities these days, largely a result of the left's promotion of wokeism. Sure, the extreme right is MORE dangerous, but that doesn't mean that the extreme left isn't dangerous as well.
Thank you for this video. You give me hope for Christianity. I'm a strong Spiritual Christian Mystic, and it's my full unabashed Truth. I wish more authoritarian Evangelicals believed like you. It's infecting our great nation. Blessings.
If anyone wants to read the Jefferson New Testament, it's available online for free. It's fascinating what Jefferson chose to remove , and chose to keep, if you're familiar with the bible. Whether you're a christian or not, Jefferson's deletions are a fascinating look into a truly odd, brilliant man's mind.
The proper duty of government is irrelevant to how such a government was founded. If you are confused that the purpose of the State should be to promote the role of the Church in a proper Church-State relationship, then you should probably read St. Justinian.
"Only individuals can be christians". You really already had the nations vs. christians thing in your head. Well stated. You're so right about the founding fathers and the name of JESUS, or lack thereof. My wife and I spent the last 7 years (pre-covid) ministering to women in prison (Wilsonville, OR). We wanted them to lose sight of us while exalting Christ. We talked of Jesus, and desired to lose self in Jesus. So often Calvary and the cross are forgotten, or spoken hardly at all. And we know that only LOVE will win out because the meek and gentle Lamb has already won the victory! My Dad and brother are huge, huge Trump worshippers (I'm from NW Iowa, district of Rep. Steve King). A very religious community with hardly a mention of Jesus. And as you can imagine it was a difficult upbringing. Someone once stated that whatever is not love is abuse. I left after high school, long ago. Had a conversion in my early 20's and couldn't get enough of the Bible. My Dad taught me one thing through his actions, that is, not to trust no man when it comes to Jesus and the Bible. Yet after 40 years I feel like I'm still in kindergarten in my understanding of the scriptures. ... Some thoughts I believe you may perceive to be true? ... after listening to you: *Popular Evangelical Gospel:* 1. Begins with man's need for eternal security. Thus the appeal is self-centered, and REMAINS so throughout. Never gets beyond egocentricity. *Biblical View:* 1. Begins with the revelation of the love of God at the cross (2 Cor. 5:14). The appeal is to a higher motivation--love and gratitude. Hence, selflessness. *Popular Evangelical Gospel:* 2. The gospel is "good news" of what God will do for you if you do your part, that is, "accept Christ" and thus change your angry God into a "friend." *Biblical View:* 2. The gospel is GOOD NEWS of what God in Christ has already done and is doing for you now. He has drawn you all your life (Jer. 31:1; Jn. 12:32). The gospel motivates to a true heart surrender, a response of faith. *Popular Evangelical Gospel:* 3. The consensus of the people is more important than truth. *Biblical View:* 3. Genuine righteousness by faith is always initially accepted by the minority. True faith imparts a courage that fears no majority or power they may wield. Leads to bearing the cross with Christ. Or we could say: NOT I, BUT CHRIST (Galatians 2:20). blessings, John
John, you are a clear thinker. I value that in anyone, whether they agree with me or not. BTW, have you read any books by Dallas Willard? Some are HARD, others are easier. But if you persist, anywhere you start will bless you beyond words ...Paul
@@paulbasden8431 Paul, all I know is that "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above .." (James 1:17). I'll check out Dallas Willard, thanks.
@@angelammathews82 I consider myself a protestant. It's what Reformer Martin Luther talked about, that we protest anything that's a lie by sharing the truth of the good news of salvation. It's simple, if it's not good news, it's not the gospel. The evangelical movement is definitely a false movement, it's mostly all bad new. They speak a lot of condemnatory language but forget what Jesus said to Nicodemus and to the whole world: "For God did NOT send His Son into the world TO CONDEMN the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:17). The fact that "Christian Nationalism" is arising more so in the USA is such a LIE. Jesus is the "SAVIOR OF THE WORLD" (1 John 4:14). Also, Jesus is clear just before they crucified Him: "My kingdom is NOT of this world. IF My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight ..." (John 18:36). The Apostle Paul, inspired of the Spirit of God plainly said: "For our citizenship is in heaven ..." (Philippians 3:20). Nationalism is anti-Christ (in place of). Which firstly means: Anything opposed to Jesus and His word. Take heart, the Spirit of God is to bring us hope. Remember, there is not one parable of the sheep seeking the Shepherd. The Shepherd seeks the sheep. Here's some more hope. Salvation does NOT depend on us holding on to God's hand; but BELIEVING that God in Christ is holding on to our hand: " For I, the LORD your GOD WILL HOLD your right hand, Saying to you, 'Fear not, I will help you" (Isaiah 41:13). My wife is from the migrant fields of Texas (she was a water girl) and went on to get hers Masters in Nursing. She is short and dark brown and has had to deal with racism in the corporate world her whole working life. So many tears. I can only comfort and encourage her in Christ. That's why we rely on God's word, not this bigoted and racist world. IT'S HERE TO STAY UNTIL THE SECOND COMING. So, when Christian Nationalism rails on black, brown, and Asian people and thinks Trump is going to save them, they have no clue what they are talking about. Here's a "spot on" description of Donald Trump, may he see Jesus. The following Psalm talks about why the prosperity of the wicked seemingly never have to pay up, if you will: "Pride serves as their necklace; violence covers them like a garment. Their eyes bulge with abundance; They have more than heart could wish. They scoff and speak wickedly concerning oppression; They speak loftily. ... It was too painful for me [to see all their prosperity and get away with it]- Until I went into the sanctuary of God; Then I understood their end. Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction. Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors" (read the whole of Psalm 73). .... Follow the truth and hope will embrace us, even with all the diversity. ... Ask the LORD for truth, and He will guide you to a safe church. Blessings!
You need to read the book "Total Truth". In it, there is a ton of discussion about the Sacred/Secular split. That's your problem right there. You're under the assumption that we can be Christian and vote secular...we can be Christian on Sundays, but when it comes to politics our decisions can be based solely upon "the common good." Whatever that is. Does Jesus have all authority in heaven and on earth or just authority in what we've deemed Christian areas of life?
That’s because this man is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He like many other Fabian socialists attacks in small areas and distorts the truth to win many small victories and further the Marxist, collectivist agenda.
Other countries do a very good job of keeping their religion out of their political life. We Americans seem to have a problem with it. American Christians think they know what’s best, so that’s how they justify forcing their beliefs in the rest of us.
Joel, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I don't think it's possible in this world to vote for truth (as revealed by Jesus) every time we cast a ballot. The human fall into sin means our choices are often not as simple as "good vs. evil," because even the good options have been compromised by our sinfulness in certain ways. Don't hear me saying I think all truth is relative - not at all. I believe that absolute truth is in Jesus, who called himself "The Truth." (John 14:6) I do not believe however that we can discern Jesus' absolute truth in every political issue. Paul
It is true that we weren’t founded as a Christian nation, but I believe every elected official who claims to be a Christian has a moral obligation before God to carry out his word.
As well as non-Christians, because they are made in the image of God, and they are accountable to God as well. You’re not allowed to be an oppressor and deny peoples rights if you claim to be a non-Christian. You can’t get away with it because you claim not to be a Christian.
Branson, I appreciate what you said. My goal is to speak the truth in love. I fail often, but I'd like to get it as right as possible on this crucial topic,
@Paul Basden. I actually found this to be a pretty misleading video. 1. What you’re describing is more accurately described as Christian Exceptionalism, and yes, it’s a common myth in conservative Christian circles. I agree that they do indeed exaggerate the Christian roots of the country. 2. But then, you are exaggerating the neutral roots of our country. There were no Muslim founders, no Buddhist founders, and not even any Jewish founders. George Washington was a member of an Episcopal church and most of the founders, including the Deists, were Christian-ish in their practice. Jefferson did not cut the Gospels out of his Bible. He did not cut Jesus out of his Bible. He was fond of Jesus, per se. He just excluded the supernatural. Kind of irrational if you ask me, but it is what it is. 3. There was very little “religious liberty” in either the colonies or the fledgling nation. There was Protestant denominational liberty. Jews and Catholics and Muslims were often second-class citizens. Remember, even a Baptist like Roger Williams had to leave Massachusetts due to religious intolerance. The Anti-Establishment Clause had only federal jurisdiction for a long time, and several of the states retained an Establishment church for quite some time. 4. You are also being rather mean spirited in characterizing Christian Exceptionalists as “Nationalists.” Nationalism is a loaded term in our current society. It implies Anti-Semitism, Anti-Immigrant sentiments based on race rather than legal status, freezing Muslims and Buddhists and Atheists out of the political process, a staunch tribalism of us (pure Americans) vs. them (ethnically and ideologically tainted Americans). It also tends toward advocating violence if things don’t go their way. Many of the folks you are tarring with your broad brush are Philo-Semitic, only oppose illegal immigrants, have no major difficulty with other religions running for office, and are almost too far from turning to violence in the face of tyranny (unlike our founding fathers). Most of them are kindly, patriotic, model citizens, who are incredibly passive if you ask me. They let the progressive crowd roll on over them most of the time. To be true to the facts (which you say you are), our current progressive activists are FAR more likely to be violent. To be fair, these fundamentalists are, quite frequently, more than a little racist in their day-to-day dealings with minorities. They are fairly tribalistic, and they tend toward toward being conspiratorial in their attitudes. I don’t care for their theology. Their hermeneutics run roughshod over clear biblical intent. They often lack basic critical thinking skills. What most of them are not…is dangerous. Those who could be rightly termed Christian Nationalists (such as White Supremacists and January 6th Insurrectionists) are not particularly devout in their “faith.” Often, they have only a very thin veneer haphazardly slopped on. So, no, I didn’t find this video to be fair minded in the least. You can do much better than this!
@@asdfasdf3989 I’m having trouble wondering why you’d even want to know. Best I can tell, the man is a silly little boy in deep need of some serious counseling. He’s sometimes linked with Michelle Malkin, who displays all the symptoms of someone who has gone through a psychotic break. These are thoroughly dysfunctional people way out on the far fringes of society. How are they relevant?
This needs to be heard by everyone. Especially MAGA House republicans who are entrusted with enormous decision making responsibility which affects all of us and our relationship with foreign nations.
Gary DeMar, America's Christian Founding. Or, Stephen Wolfe's The Case for Christian Nationalism- please let me know if you've interacted with these elsewhere.
My first question is who identifies as a Christian Nationalist??? This is new to me. I just started learning about Christian Nationalism. The definitions are not even consistent. Ohhh man....I gotta start a series on Christian Socialism/leftism. This is painful. The speaker urges us to not share what we cannot verify. Well, then I can't share this video. Thomas Jefferson's views aren't anything new & that of Washington & or Adams. But, how many Founding Fathers were there. How many were members of a church? Was membership much harder to attain back then? Moreover, if a nation or university can't be Christian or have Christian roots then how can any group be Christian??? Ie a church (a body of believers) or a missionary group. In "Tactics" by Greg Koukl he notes "Founding Father's were a specific group of delegates to the Constitution Convention. 55 made up the core: 28 were Episcopalians: 8 Presbyterians: 7 Congregationalists: 2 Lutherans: 2 Dutch Reformed: 2 Methodists: 2 Roman Catholics: 1 unknown & 3 were deists." As for being a mixed bag, they seemed to be pulled from the same section.
Christian Nationalism. The irony in white Americans wanting to take back America because they think it belongs to Christians like them without regards to the fact that Christ was born jewish, brown, and from Palestine.
@@mattisonquinn6486 America, like all nations, belong to Christ. And in Christ, "28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Stop lying about us.
Christianity doesn't save People. It should be Jesus who does The Saving and not a religion or traditions. There is no Scripture where God says that all of America will be saved and we will have an all christian cabinet and that there will be a great end time revival. Scripture says the opposite, that there will be a great falling away and christians will fall under a strong delusion and listen to false prophets! If any man claims to be a Christian, than he needs to obey The Bible. Roman's chapter 13 Verse 1 Commands Christian's to submit to and obey the government and the leaders for they have been established you!! Jesus said in The Bible to give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what Is God's! Christian nationalism is totally unscriptual and there is no Scripture to support it!!
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
"A nation cannot be Christian." But, it CAN be founded on Biblical principles. Thomas Jefferson is the one who wrote "endowed by our Creator." He capitalized the word "Creator" on purpose. Let's follow that logically..... Oh, I guess that makes most of the founders CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS.
..... Thomas Jefferson wasn't even Christian. He was a deist, as were many of the others. That's when you believe there is a god, but reject organized religion. In fact, Thomas Jefferson is extremely famous for his rejection of Christianity. He believed that Jesus was a mortal man to the point that he edited the Bible to remove all of the miracles, the supernatural, and Jesus's divinity. That's right, America was founded on Heresy. Bet they didn't teach you that one in school.
So does this mean that the Christianity of early America, and since that time, had no influence on our country's morality, politics, polices, cultural issues, etc.? I honestly think if there hadn't been so much of Christianity's influences, our country would not have had all the freedoms it has enjoyed. Freedom is a CHRISTIAN ideal - our laws are based on Christian principles. Without that we would literally have so much more atheism, humanism, secularism, and all that comes from those false worldviews than we already do. Certainly we have come a long way from what we once were in terms of morality and freedoms once enjoyed, but Christ is still KING and He REIGNS now over all the earth. We need another GREAT AWAKENING like we had in our past. The widespread preaching of the gospel is so needed now more than ever.
Wow, this video really warms my heart. Honestly! I’ve been saying for YEARS that more Christians need to speak openly and succinctly about this topic to other Christians and here it is! I’m an anti-theist and a former believer. How non-believers feel about Christianity should be totally irrelevant though when our democracy is at stake. This is why it’s so important for Christians to speak with their coreligionists about C&S issues like the super dangerous creeping Fascism that is Christian Nationalism (Dominionism has similar issues). The problem, from my perspective, is that these nice folks (many of them non-violent) FEEL “persecuted” by a world that is changing too fast for them. This reactionary movement is emotional, as Trump proved, and has little to nothing to do with actual facts or the real history of our very young country. To fight these fundamentalists requires that CHRISTIANS (not just non-believers) engage on a personal level with those around them and do so with love and honesty. Not more hate or condescension. Use the Socratic method to simply ask questions that help these misguided folks (Cult45 and/or Christian Nationalists) understand that America is a secular nation, and that even if we were to become a Theocracy (like Saudi Arabia, for instance), WHICH SECT of Christianity would we even favor? That fact alone unravels the lies. You already know what questions to ask. What you need is the support and the perfectly rational belief that it’s not “rude” to talk about religion/politics with those you disagree with, especially when the line between opinion and FACT is being purposefully blurred by dishonest actors who only want to manipulate us. I hope to see more pastors speaking against this madness. Yes, SM has lots to do with it but it’s much deeper than that too. It’s what the RW media bubble relies on and 40% of the entire country are still Creationists who reject science outright. It's in AMERICA'S best interest to fight this!
@@paulbasden8431 Why? This is what you got from all that? Do you agree or not that Christian Nationalism threatens our democracy? It's a simple topic. My anti-theism actually aligns with that fact regarding current events. Think about it ..
@@paulbasden8431 Speaking of questions, ask yourself: Why do Christians run from the hard ones we non-believers ask you but the reverse is NEVER true? (Pssttt... It's 'cause you're in a cult.)
In its extreme forms, Christian Nationalism threatens the credibility of Christianity and the experience of democracy in America. That's why I preached on this at the church where I serve as pastor, and why I gave an abbreviated version of it in the TH-cam talk that you watched.
@@paulbasden8431 Apologies for my tone, as I didn’t realize you were the poster and the personal inquiry made it seem like you were avoiding the topic of my thread. However, don’t you consider what SCOTUS has now done to be “extreme”? Wasn’t the 40+ year push to repeal women’s reproductive rights (or LGBT rights, etc) ALWAYS “its most extreme forms”? I was a teen (and a believer) in the 80s when Weyrich & Fallwell were planting the seeds of this mess. Seeds which, let’s be honest now, DROVE the Republican voters for decades. Just like the 9/11 terrorists, their fundie nutjob terrorist goals were FAR surpassed. Wasn’t it extreme Christian Nationalism to place these “Wedge Issues” above all others that might actually affect people’s lives (as we see with Progressive policies on the LW which don’t merely exploit irrational fears)? I appreciate your willingness to be "demonized" by your coreligionists for speaking the truth, btw!
Can you be a fundamentalist without being Christian Nationalist? In all sincerity, I'm asking as a Progressive Democrat, and this isn't the first time this question has occurred to me, because of my former experience playing in the music ministry of the Charismatic Group in the Catholic Church. So, was I a Christian Nationalist (in today's terms) or a Fundamentalist (by membership, at least?
If I’m paying attention to vocal, progressive representatives, if you believe that, your rights are bestowed upon you by God instead of the state, then you are indeed a Christian nationalist if you live in America in this constitutional republic
I vote for progressive adminstrations because I believe in their political goals. If I'm a Christian Nationalist, then I'm not a very faithful one.@@jennyturner3174
It has bugged me for a while just how attached Christians in America are to the idea of America being a Christian nation. When I was younger I was still thinking through the programming that had been put into me from my younger years. I have concluded that most American "Christians" who want to force Christianity on others are not actually followers of Christ. If they were, they would have taken Him saying that His kingdom is not of this world more seriously. Jesus never wanted to force people to become Christians, or to enforce His will onto others. He wants people to choose Him willingly. He wants people to follow His example, being salt and light in the world. Because that is how we become lights that reflect Christ, guiding people toward Him. Forcing our beliefs onto others through legislation and force has done more damage to the world's view of us as a whole than anything the Devil could do alone. Quite frankly, I think that many of the "Christians" that are pushing Christian nationalism are working for the Devil. Much alike those who started the crusades and tried to "convert" the natives of many lands. It isn't a new concept, it is just as destructive and horrific a thought process as ever. I am glad that there are more Christians recognizing the danger that Christian Nationalism poses. We should all be aware and wary. We can't let this thought process proliferate. It must be fought, or we face horrors that could equal or surpass those of the past.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding misunderstanding of Christian Nationalism. Christian Nationalists do not want to force-convert nonbelievers, but we do want to enforce basic Biblical morality onto them, and squash evil pagan religion.
“And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God … and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.” - Abraham Lincoln “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” - Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln Memorial “Whereas, the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God, in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for National prayer and humiliation…” - Abraham Lincoln
Eric, thank you for sharing these wonderful quotes. I celebrate every part of our national heritage where God has been and is being honored. My best, Paul
Education is useless without the Bible. The Bible was America’s basic text book in all fields. God’s Word, contained in the Bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct. - Noah Webster In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people. - Noah Webster, Preface Noah Webster Dictionary, 1828 Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story “I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.” - Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, Harvard Speech, 1829
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; "Constitution of the United States of America" "First Amendment" Webster's ideals are irrelevant
“If you don’t know something to be true, don’t say it.” Great quote. I ask you to live by your own words. Because it doesn’t seem that you realize Christian principles, are what was the foundation for America. Whether or not all the founding fathers were Christians isn’t an argument is it? Probably Benjamin Franklin knew the Bible better than half of the current pastors in America and likely so did Jefferson. Point being that they had a Christian worldview that was probably better than most American Christians, even though they likely did not put their trust in the blood of Jesus.
Eric, I appreciate your response. You make a valid point that I have no desire to deny, because I'm thankful for it. There was indeed a definite Judeo-Christian worldview in the minds/hearts of many who founded our country. For that, I thank God. But in my reading of history, I don't think America was ever established as a "Christian nation." Nor do I think it's possible to have a Christian nation in this world. Paul
@@paulbasden8431 If there can be no such thing as a Christian nation, does that mean there can be no such thing as a pagan nation? Or an atheist nation? Can a nation be pagan in the same sense that a person is a pagan or an atheist? Does that also mean there can be no such thing as a godly nation as David referred to in Psalms?
"A nation cannot be Christian. Only persons can be Christians." A accurate, yet profound statement thats is sadly lost on most ears these days.
America and most of Europe did it for hundreds of years.
That is theologically and historically false.
If what you say is true...there could only be individual no Christian families, or communities.
If Jesus Christ is Lord. Then is good and necessary to pass laws in accordance with this end.
@@felixguerrero6062 It is not historically false. Nations are on a much bigger scale then small communities. And operate differently. Lots of people, lots of different POVs lots of thoughts (even if many of sheepified minds).
@@Windrake101 The principles is true irrespective of scale.
@@felixguerrero6062 “there has never been a literal Christian nation in this world. The only Christian nation is the gathered communities of Christian believers all over this world” Alexander Campbell American reformer.
Thank you, Pastor. I found your video and realized that your church is only 15 minutes from me. I will be joining you for Easter.
Jesus said that Christians should teach and make disciples of all nations.
As a devout Christian I really appreciate this vid..great job! I honestly think far too many American Christians have replaced the Gospel with politics, & it pains me to see so-called Christian leaders promoting politics, it dilutes the Gospel!
Thank you for your reply. There's no doubt that politics is with us to stay, and we have to learn as Christ-followers how to be good citizens and good patriots, while still seeking first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.
@@paulbasden8431 Amen!
They have taken Jesus right out of their beliefs and have replaced Jesus with themselves and their insatiable hunger for power. Christian Nationalism is so anti-Christ its not even funny. Any Christian who believes that they deserve a privileged position in the public space by virtue of being a Christian is following something, but it's not Jesus. Christian Nationalism fear and despise Sharia Law for example, yet seem to have absolutely no problem pushing Christian dogma into Government. I mean, what's it gonna be? You can't have it both ways. In my opinion, the greatest threat to the US right now is the rise in Christian extremism.
The Gospel is the message of Christ kingdom. Everywhere Paul went riots broke out. You cannot separate politics from morality.
@@zZavies wasn’t there somebody that said something about give to Caesar what is Caesar’s? At least to that person religious piety and political participation seemed to be separable.
If the suggestion though is that a particular religious morality should be enforced via political power, how do we go about deciding what that looks like exactly? Should we go with Catholicism since this is the largest sect of Christians, and force you and your family to go to mass every Sunday by threat of prosecution? Or should we dissolve the military wholesale and outlaw self-defense in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount teaching that we are not to resist evil with violence?
It is so refreshing to hear someone speaking the truth about American history. Our country is not and never has been a Christian nation even if the majority is Christian. You are indeed right, a country can not be Christian but people can. The Puritans and the Pilgrims wanted to create a theocracy but they were not among the Founding Fathers. Neither were the Native Americans, the Spaniards in the Southwest, the French in Louisiana, nor the Russians in Alaska. The Founding Fathers founded our nation with no state religion or an establishment of religion of any kind. It is scary to hear people proclaim that we were always a Christian nation because the Founders were devout Christians who founded America on the Bible. It is scary because it is not true but apparently millions think it is true and they feel persecuted that they can not force their version of Christianity on the rest of us. Thank you from a lifelong student of history.
I rarely comment on anything, but just stumbled across this video and really appreciate it!
I'm an agnostic Buddhist but i grew up in the Baptist church. You make me want to visit a church like yours and listen again.
I'm honored! If you do, I hope you find what you're looking for ...
Figures an atheist
Thank you so much! I’m your friendly American atheist. I’m the person that keeps her mouth shut to try to get along with my neighbors. I am American too. My parents and grandparents fought against fascism and communism. I value democracy too.
I very much appreciated this video. I wish I saw more Christians who believed this way.
Thank you for bringing up social media. It’s unfortunate that some people believe almost anything. I like that you gave some useful advice.
Thank you.
Jayne, thank you so much for responding to my talk. Thank you also for seeking to be respectful to those who disagree with you (and vice versa). America needs a lot more of that right now. I have several friends who are atheists or agnostics. I respect their viewpoints, but of course I wish they could find a reason to believe in God. Speaking of ... I have 9 brief talks on TH-cam for those who don't believe in God, but are willing to re-consider. The talks are 5-7 minutes long and are entitled "Really Big Questions." I address issues such as why does suffering occur, why believe the Bible, why are Christians hypocritical, etc. I don't appeal to the Bible, assuming that those who watch don't believe it is trustworthy. Instead I appeal to reason. If it sounds interesting, I hope you'll watch one or two and let me know what you think. My best, Paul
I’m an atheist who also thanks you for your honesty. I use to be silent but now proudly say I’m an atheist when I’m asked or if the subject comes up. As a senior I’ve just met too many immoral Christians and too many moral humanists to buy in.
Fair enough, but odd that you would use the word “moral” and give weight to it as a persuasive power. Without God what makes morality moral anyway? Being persuaded by a subjective idea may be. Good enough for you, but the very idea of some kind of objective morality im would indicate some grounding or concrete idea of the concept of good and evil. Without God , I don’t see how good or evil objectively exists . So to accept that morality exists as an objectively reality involving good and evil proves GOD . If it’s subjective , we’ll then who cares it’s just a matter of opinion
Jayne: I am also a friendly American atheist. I agree with you on everything you said. As far as social media, my opinion is that if the cellphone had never been invented, we would not have all of this vitriol and hatred today. I think what most Christians do not understand is that we were once believers, but reason, logic, facts, and evidence led us to obtain better critical thinking skills and, therefore, reject the claims of the supernatural. ☮
Democracy is evil
Thank you so so much. Your video brought me to tears. Part of the reason I left the church was due to what I now understand as Christian Nationalism. I don't understand all the hatred and demonization of anyone who isn't exactly the same, and I am heartbroken.
I agree that the attitudes many Christian groups have towards anyone not like them is a major turn off. However, Christian Nationalism is another discussion entirely.
You are welcome. I hope you can return to a church and find one that's full of grace and truth. "Both/and" ...
Thanks Paul! This is great, wish You could be heard on every Christian radio station in America, and in every evangelical church!
Thanks for that encouragement!
From kenya🇰🇪.... America needs to get back to its roots,the church needs to be vigilant and stand up
I really appreciate this perspective, thank you!
I am a strong atheist. and I was happy to share this video.
That's not a good thing.
If the infidels are spreading your message, you probably got something wrong.
💯💯💯✝️✝️✝️.... thank u for standing for Truth
Cool. You’re not all nuts. Good to know 👍🏼
Excellent. I have independently verified the points you are making and I will share this video. Thank you.
By this logic he can't even call the church Christian.
Also, he uses heuristics all the time. It's impossible to get through life without them, so his challenge at the end isn't truly a fair one.
The point is a church is a construct. You can't baptize a church. It cannot learn, confess, or reason. It's an idea.
The people inside that church is what makes it christian. A person can be Christian, a church is a concept/name, based on what this PEOPLE believe.
Are there not many non-believers who attend church? Yes. There are. So, no, a building can't be Christian. Lol
We’ll done sir!
Excellent!! Thank you so much!!
I'm glad you liked it ...
THANK YOU! Excellent summary
Paul! Thank you for this. More churches should do this and speak out against Christian Nationalism. I will be honest. The WORST thing for the Christian message has been the rise of Christian nationalism. It is one of the things that made me start questioning my faith and eventually losing it. Again thank you for this and it is great to see more and more church leaders speaking out about the fallacy of Christian Nationalism.
Thank you for evidencing what Christianity is about.You are a blessing.
Irish man here, so no dog in this fight but when a man makes a historical argument and tries to back it up with “I’ve got an advanced degree IN THE AREA of history”…be
suspicious and when he doesn’t respond to logical critiques of his position (see comments) be even more suspicious.
I wish this video could be shown in every church. Thank you for posting this. 🙏
you are welcome! Keep seeking ...
Thanks for the insight.
You are 100% correct. Thank you for speaking the truth--in love.
It must be tough telling the truth while living in a hot bed of Christian Nationalism like Dallas, TX. Keep up the good work.
Powerful message ty sir
It’s actually a mix of both stories really. This nation was undeniably founded by both Christians and some who where on the fringes of fundamental Christian beliefs (but still viewed Christian morality in high regard) BUT none the less founded country on Christian principles. Just because some didn’t claim Christianity (overwhelmingly most did) doesn’t mean we were founded on principles that are divorced from biblical foundations. They established our government so we didn’t have a particular denomination on purpose as the head of government in order to avoid another catholic church style situation in England. This allowed for denominations and religious liberties to thrive (even non Christian religions). It boils down to this.. government makes laws - do we want a government founded on morality found in scripture? Or a morality found in …something… else? It’s not about turning all of the US Christian and rewarding only Christian’s but returning foundations of government to Christian principles so religious liberties can thrive. The countries with the most freedoms today were founded on Christian beliefs. It’s a no brainer.
I really liked your second point.
love this
If laws benefit Christians, then laws will benefit everyone else!
You can also find proof of this simply by looking at the reasons why some of the early settlers came to the United States and the governments that existed in Europe at that time. Some of the first settlers that came to America were coming here due to religious persecution, simply put their version of Christianity wasn't the predominant version that controlled the government. So why would anyone think that they would be okay with the government of their new land following that same path? On top of that the English King that our Founding Fathers were fighting had his position due to the belief of divine right, it was literally the case that he was King because God chose him to be King. And the church was so powerful that they could literally take a person's land simply by excommunicating them. They would never set up a government where any one religion had that much influence or control over the new government.
The sad thing is all we have to do is look at Iran and see what happens when a specific religion gains too much power in a secular government. And now these Christian Nationalists want to do the same thing with the United States, just with a different religion.
Thank you for this great video! Very informative.
Great overview of the facts of American religious history. It should be re-released now, in time for the 2024 election system. Christian nationalist should also read 1 Sammuel Chapter 8.
I'm just a high school graduate and I love history.I took 4 years out of my life to study all the american presidents from Washington to Eisenhower. I love my Lord and savior Jesus and wanted America to be a christen nation, but I came to the same conclusion as you. Thanks for agreeing with me...lol a lot of my friends didn't. Thanks again Grace and Peace to you.
keep up the good work!
“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition.
~George Washington
Look up the origins of thanksgiving. It is a day to give thanks to God for His kind care and protection.
There’s a third story, Pastor Paul. A community of Christians who aren’t ashamed of their nationality (ethnos), who love their country and their countrymen, and who seek to vote and act for the health and well-being of their own people, and who desire to see their own nation, along with all nations, recognize the Authority and Love of Christ in all things, for the good of all people.
What should we call that?
You should check this video out… it counters his points perfectly. More like fills in the holes in his logic.
th-cam.com/video/7dN5KQGEuI8/w-d-xo.html
Stop conflating with constructive criticism of america and calling out the racism and intolerance with being ashamed of America. There’s always been that in American history lol.
When u say you love your fellow country men and women then why is taxes to fund socially beneficial programs seen as unfair or irresponsible but when corporations or military gets billions and mismanage their finances not a single complaint?
Last point enforcing the authority of Jesus Christ is laughable in its own. If Jesus is God then why does he need you as a sinner to speak for him. Last I checked if Christianity is truly a personal relationship with God God will reveal himself to them. I mean if u truly believe God is all powerful like the fact u can’t even see the irony in that statement in itself is wild
@@Lightlinefisherman It doesn’t sound like you are truly informed on either the idea of Christian Nationalism or what having a relationship with Jesus looks like. I take it from your last paragraph you also don’t have an understanding of the Biblical God… No condemnation here-I was there too, just lots of basic fallacies in your comment that would be cleared up with some reading.
@@atschram fallacies? what am i missing here? please explain.
@@Lightlinefisherman Have you read the Bible? The New Testament specifically?
Have you read any “real” literature on Christian Nationalism? Not crackpot ideologues, but true believers.
🤔 so are you arguing that an entity/corporation cannot be a Christian, and only individuals? Ok , but an organization can build upon the precepts of Christ or Christianity as they understand it and can be called a “Christian organization” just as much as Saudi Arabia can be considered a “Muslim” nation. It’s splitting hairs.
This national founders understood that inalienable rights must have ontological grounding beyond the epistemic limitations of state or human assertion , that grounding was declared to be endowed by our “Creator”. To suggest that the founders believed this creator to allah , Buddha or harryKrishna would be laughable.
Whether someone believes in Christ or not , I cannot imagine Christian nationalists disregarding the rights of others when the rights of the atheist , Jew, or otherwise have rights grounded and given by God .
Hey, there, really glad to see more churches speaking out about this issue. I do think it's important to mention some of the more insidious aspects of Christian Nationalism such as racism and sexism. Still, lots of really salient points here. Thanks and God bless.
I appreciate your response. It reminds me of two things that are important. First, every "ism" is idolatry, i.e., we worship something other than God (e.g., secularism, liberalism, materialism, etc.). Second, idolatry always leads to dehumanizing others (read any of the Prophets in the Old Testament). Worshiping the Canaanite god Baal always led to injustice and violence. So, it's no surprise that as an "ism," Christian Nationalism can lead to racism and sexism.
Racism is not a facet of Christian Nationalism, that's White Nationalism.
Sexism is enshrined in the Bible as clear as day.
@@paulbasden8431 Ism simply means belief in, not worship of.
@@fivebrosstopmos You are right that "ism" points to "belief in." What I'm saying is that every "ism" I know of goes beyond simple belief to a deep belief that leads to worship, meaning dedicating one's life to that entity. For example, Communism leads to worship of state-controlled economics; capitalism leads to worship of the free market; ditto for Marxism, humanism, Darwinism, etc. And by "worship," I mean building your life around something and finding ultimate meaning in it. Therefore, "nationalism" means building one's life around one's nation and finding ultimate meaning in it. Nationalism has happened throughout world history in countries on every continent. Since Jesus said, "Seek first God's Kingdom and his righteousness" (Matthew 6:33), I believe nationalism is dangerous and sinful, and must be avoided. We can love our country, but if we are Jesus-followers, we may not worship it ... or anything/anyone other than Jesus. Hope that makes sense. Thanks for commenting.
@@paulbasden8431 That's the way some isms go, in absence of a higher belief, but that is not the way they are required to go.
Jesus says seek ye first, which means we may have something second, such as nationalism, especially when we are a prophesied nation.
I do have a deep sadness with how the indigenous people here were treated by many of our ancestors, and I know not all our ancestors were intentionally terrible , but nobody can deny that the indigenous peoples were largely treated terribly. Unfortunately some are still are treated terribly. I think we all have a responsibility to do our part to make sure we treat ALL people with dignity and respect. Period.
They treated one another horrendously. Before anyone got here, they are covered at one another’s land. They all had borders, and they didn’t warn you if you crossed into their border, they killed you. They didn’t build any schools or churches are hospitals, why feel sorry for them?
My parents told me that it’s a other way of calling it the american taliban.
Good stuff!
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
Quite true. America was not founded as a Christian nation. But neither was it founded as a nation neutral towards religion…and most certainly not as a secular nation. It was founded as a theistic nation. Or basically, as we would describe it today, a Judeo-Christian nation.
So, of your two tales, the former is indeed mythological, but the latter is outright historical revisionism. Our founding was far closer to aligning with Christian Nationalism than Secular Nationalism. It’s just a fact.
If founded as a Christian nation (ie. Tribalism) - then why did they treat the Native Americans so poorly? Why wouldn't those founders have wanted to treat them with love and compassion under Christ? I cannot see a nation (ie. physical land-mass tribal construct claiming natural resources for themselves) try to base laws on religion at all. I just don't get the aspects of how Christian and Jewish are all based on land (controllable resources) when isn't the glory to be found in Heaven based on how we treat each other here? Currently "Christian" Nationalists (ie. simply Nationalists) want to put up walls, lock people out and take away rights and base it on writings of sometimes one man who was inspired to write 2000 or less years ago. If Jesus didn't say it - I sometimes don't want to hear it. I am wondering where Jesus said "put up walls, own the land, keep others out and use armed services to ensure tribal success and be sure to tax everyone as much as possible to pay for it all (and don't forget to give 10% to your church as well)."
@@johnmcvicker6728. Your reply, while outwardly appealing, seems unnecessarily naive. Every single country (and semi-autonomous territory) on the face of the earth either has a standing army or is protected by a colonial power or military alliance (like NATO). Everyone has borders, many of them with fences or walls. Pretty much everyone keeps certain people out and prioritizes its own citizens. This is how the world is run. And it is how it has always run.
@@johnmcvicker6728. And my guess is that you are a Christian “Familiyist.” And by that I mean that you have a fence around your house (or a lock on your door). Certain people are let in and others are kept out.
If this is not so, publish your address, and my family and I will come squat in your house. But don’t worry, we will thank you profusely for your marvelous personal model of Christian charity!
@@hanssvineklev648 It's great if we like tribalism and that helps us keep economy growing (defending and supporting nationalism times 160 countries). Will this planet ever evolve into a one-tribe world?
@@johnmcvicker6728.
My goodness! Would you want it to?? Such a scenario scares me more-much more-than some goofy, redneck white supremacists taking over our country.
There would be literally nowhere to flee. A One World government is going to have a particular worldview in order to be stable. And woe to them who think differently! I’m not sure I can think up anything worse than such an eventuality.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Well said.
Christian Nationalism feels like believers rendering unto Caesar that which belongs to God.
Let me preface my comment by stating that I am a relatively "novice" Christian... I have only been attending church as an adult for the past two years, and there is a lot I still need to learn about scripture. One of our pastors recently gave a sermon warning about nationalism and idolatry, that it is basically a zero-sum game in terms of honoring Christ versus loving one's country, for example. And that got me thinking, it is really a zero-sum game? Can we not fully honor Christ while still honoring our mother and father, and by extension our family, our community, and our nation? Did the Great Commission not command Christians to literally disciple the nations of the world? Some would argue that nations themselves can't be "Christian nations" since they don't have immortal souls and cannot be Christian... if that is true, why did Jesus tell us to do it? Pastor Doug Wilson makes a compelling argument along these lines. I am aware of the criticisms of the man that are floating around the Internet, but focusing simply on theology and ignoring that stuff, I'd be curious to hear a rebuttal to his theological argument on the matter, which seems very well reasoned. Thank you.
th-cam.com/video/z3xnRKs3CHY/w-d-xo.html
Chris, great point. I agree that "either/or" thinking is not helpful for complex topics. In Luke 20:20-26, Jesus called out his enemies for offering him an "either/or" question when the topic was far too important to limit to a simple Yes or No. Keep up the good work, Paul
Well said!
the christians that came to this land, didn't want religion in politics. That's why this country built on
Well done! A very practical and succinct explanation of Christian Nationalism. Thank you!
Well said, humbly and peacefully.
Thank you. That's encouraging to me.
The work of the Gospel is to make peace between men and God, and wherever a
heart surrenders to God the spirit of militarism and *nationalism* must go. {November 26, *1896* -- PTUK}
What book is this?
John, What is PTUK? Paul
@@paulbasden8431 It was a Christian publication out of the UK. Also, plenty of Biblical evidence. Regarding militarism: We are called to be a witness (martyr). The Greek word for witness is martyrion. This is hardly known or respected. Also, Romans 12:9-21 is clear regarding our relationship to mankind. Love is harmless (Romans 13:10). On nationalism: Sadly, Israel failed to go to all nations and spread the gospel. They thought God was only about the nation of Israel, but Jesus showed them He was the Savior of the WORLD. We are told that we’re “strangers and pilgrims on earth” (Hebrews 11:13-16), and we are to have the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:5). Therefore our “kingdom is not of this world” and we are not to fight except to exercise the fight of faith (John 18:36; 1 Timothy 6:12). Blessings
@@JohnJakeWilliam Back at you!
You sound like an Adventist....
Well, THAT wasn't what I expected! I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation, Sir. It wasn't hazy or maybe. It was verifiable. I'm not a Christian: it's a choice I've made. But it's disappointing to realize, from acquaintances, that so many Christians don't understand the New Testament is about the spiritual, not the corporeal.
I'm glad you were pleasantly surprised! There are several other talks in this series that might also surprise you.
My best, Paul
So two questions for you as you ask people not to pass on information that has not been verified. How did you come to know about Christianity? how exactly did you verify Christianity?
Good talk
I agree that a nation nor a business cannot be Christian and the push to make it so today comes out of fear and the desire to protect against the “anything goes” destructive immorality that’s gotten out of hand in our society.
Businesses are not the arm of the government unless owned by the government thus business can turn such places into living breathing profit making churches or a giant toilet seat.
I am a born-again Christian. Not bragging by any stretch. That is just me. This guy is right on target. My home in Heaven is not assured by my citizenship. Pilgrims came here for religious freedom. The separation of Church and State is important. For example, my heart is all for a Christian coach reading Scripture before a football game to his players. But...my blood would boil for a Muslim coach to read from the Koran. You get my point. I don't want teachers praying with my kids, but they better not keep my kids from praying over their noon meal. Mr. Basden is a smart dude. True story...in 1988 while providing security as a young Army NCO in the Honduras, my Food Service SGT came dragging a Catholic priest to me complaining about the priest stealing the garbage. The issue was the regulations state that trashed food remnants must not be consumed. The priest was taking our garbage 3 kilometers to his starving village. The priest left with my blessings to take all of our garbage, with some sacks of potatoes that were more than we could use, every day. Yes, I violated Amy Regulations. I think the priest was a true servant of God, even though I was a devout Baptist.
How about being a Christianized people? The Pilgrims as well as the Puritans had a profound impact upon the Colonization of the country. Your point is well made but it falls short because of the influence of Christianity in early America. Christian denominations came and flourished with their Protestant work ethic. What we have now is secularism, it’s getting hard for businesses to find help. We were a Christianized people, we are no more
I have been a Christian for many years and am exploring the meaning of Christian nationalism. It was mentioned that a county cannot be Christian, only people can be Christians. Question: Is Israel a Jewish state? Is Sadie Arabia a Muslim county? Is China a Communist county? Etc.
This didn't go where I expected!
These are frightening times, so I am delighted that you are speaking up.
Well Said!!!
Thank God. I'm not a theist, but I appreciate you speaking the truth. I'm terrified at the theocratic arm of the Right, and I'm hoping more moderate Christians speak up! I have a whole family of Christians who are pro-choice. Maybe you can talk about the history of abortion - how the clergy played a big role in opening up the first legal abortion clinic in New York! Really interesting how religious leaders helped women get abortions back in the day - they focused on showing compassion to women in troubling circumstances.
3:27 he also longs to bless all nations, and this blessing comes through Christ, properly. (remember that I am speaking in agreement with you that the church has its role and its role is not to bear the sword). You are correct that we should be more clearly teaching the two kingdom idea that the reformers finally understood was correct (although they took a while to get off the ground with it).
The problem comes when you have Christians in government having to understand their role as Christians both within the church and in enforcing the law. That has got to be difficult no matter how theologically astute you are. And I would say the percentage of Christian people who are theologically astute is very small in the first place.
So my take in things is the pilgrims did want to start a Christian nation. This was far before 1776. That background training in Holland and the Mayflower contract and more. So perhaps the uniqueness and exceptionslism of America is where I land in this. That Christian principles are required for a successful nation. And that God will bless a nation that follows him.
This video may explain a bit where I stand.
th-cam.com/video/1p-CnfnsxK8/w-d-xo.html
wow, this is a wise man
I'm an atheist/agnostic who often wonders how this country is going to move forward under the yoke of religious fundamentalism on both the right (Christian nationalism) and left (what John McWhorter calls "The Elect"). Thank you for this video. I really appreciate your focus on truth.
Stop your false equivalency argument, it doesn't make sound like an intellectual. Both sides are not the same. Equivalent of conservative religious nuts does not exist on the left. Liberals never tried to overthrow an election.
@@zartosht06 No, leftists never tried to overthrow an election. But they've vastly succeeded in overthrowing education and "color-coding" people by race. We the see the violence taking place in our cities these days, largely a result of the left's promotion of wokeism. Sure, the extreme right is MORE dangerous, but that doesn't mean that the extreme left isn't dangerous as well.
Thank you for this video. You give me hope for Christianity. I'm a strong Spiritual Christian Mystic, and it's my full unabashed Truth. I wish more authoritarian Evangelicals believed like you. It's infecting our great nation.
Blessings.
FULL AUDIO: "The Statement on Christian Nationalism & the Gospel" th-cam.com/video/AurH6DAgNTo/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for making this crystal clear.
If anyone wants to read the Jefferson New Testament, it's available online for free. It's fascinating what Jefferson chose to remove , and chose to keep, if you're familiar with the bible. Whether you're a christian or not, Jefferson's deletions are a fascinating look into a truly odd, brilliant man's mind.
I almost didn't make it passed the 1st 1:04. Glad I resumed play!
me too!
The proper duty of government is irrelevant to how such a government was founded. If you are confused that the purpose of the State should be to promote the role of the Church in a proper Church-State relationship, then you should probably read St. Justinian.
Separation of church and state completely out the window here lol
I personally wonder how well the speech would go over at any Native American reservation.
"Only individuals can be christians". You really already had the nations vs. christians thing in your head. Well stated. You're so right about the founding fathers and the name of JESUS, or lack thereof. My wife and I spent the last 7 years (pre-covid) ministering to women in prison (Wilsonville, OR). We wanted them to lose sight of us while exalting Christ. We talked of Jesus, and desired to lose self in Jesus. So often Calvary and the cross are forgotten, or spoken hardly at all. And we know that only LOVE will win out because the meek and gentle Lamb has already won the victory!
My Dad and brother are huge, huge Trump worshippers (I'm from NW Iowa, district of Rep. Steve King). A very religious community with hardly a mention of Jesus. And as you can imagine it was a difficult upbringing. Someone once stated that whatever is not love is abuse. I left after high school, long ago. Had a conversion in my early 20's and couldn't get enough of the Bible. My Dad taught me one thing through his actions, that is, not to trust no man when it comes to Jesus and the Bible. Yet after 40 years I feel like I'm still in kindergarten in my understanding of the scriptures. ...
Some thoughts I believe you may perceive to be true? ... after listening to you:
*Popular Evangelical Gospel:* 1. Begins with man's need for eternal security. Thus
the appeal is self-centered, and REMAINS so throughout. Never gets beyond egocentricity.
*Biblical View:* 1. Begins with the revelation of the love of God at the cross (2 Cor. 5:14).
The appeal is to a higher motivation--love and gratitude. Hence, selflessness.
*Popular Evangelical Gospel:* 2. The gospel is "good news" of what God will do for you if
you do your part, that is, "accept Christ" and thus change your angry God into a "friend."
*Biblical View:* 2. The gospel is GOOD NEWS of what God in Christ has already done and
is doing for you now. He has drawn you all your life (Jer. 31:1; Jn. 12:32). The gospel
motivates to a true heart surrender, a response of faith.
*Popular Evangelical Gospel:* 3. The consensus of the people is more important than truth.
*Biblical View:* 3. Genuine righteousness by faith is always initially accepted by the minority.
True faith imparts a courage that fears no majority or power they may wield. Leads to bearing
the cross with Christ. Or we could say: NOT I, BUT CHRIST (Galatians 2:20).
blessings, John
John, you are a clear thinker. I value that in anyone, whether they agree with me or not. BTW, have you read any books by Dallas Willard? Some are HARD, others are easier. But if you persist, anywhere you start will bless you beyond words ...Paul
@@paulbasden8431 Paul, all I know is that "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above .." (James 1:17). I'll check out Dallas Willard, thanks.
Does "your Kingdom come" not imply a Christian kingdom?
If more preachers taught based on the Biblical View, I'd run back to the church. I just can't get down with the Evangelical View anymore.
@@angelammathews82 I consider myself a protestant. It's what Reformer Martin Luther talked about, that we protest anything that's a lie by sharing the truth of the good news of salvation. It's simple, if it's not good news, it's not the gospel. The evangelical movement is definitely a false movement, it's mostly all bad new. They speak a lot of condemnatory language but forget what Jesus said to Nicodemus and to the whole world: "For God did NOT send His Son into the world TO CONDEMN the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:17).
The fact that "Christian Nationalism" is arising more so in the USA is such a LIE. Jesus is the "SAVIOR OF THE WORLD" (1 John 4:14). Also, Jesus is clear just before they crucified Him: "My kingdom is NOT of this world. IF My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight ..." (John 18:36). The Apostle Paul, inspired of the Spirit of God plainly said: "For our citizenship is in heaven ..." (Philippians 3:20). Nationalism is anti-Christ (in place of). Which firstly means: Anything opposed to Jesus and His word.
Take heart, the Spirit of God is to bring us hope. Remember, there is not one parable of the sheep seeking the Shepherd. The Shepherd seeks the sheep. Here's some more hope. Salvation does NOT depend on us holding on to God's hand; but BELIEVING
that God in Christ is holding on to our hand: " For I, the LORD your GOD WILL HOLD your right hand, Saying to you, 'Fear not, I will help you" (Isaiah 41:13).
My wife is from the migrant fields of Texas (she was a water girl) and went on to get hers Masters in Nursing. She is short and dark brown and has had to deal with racism in the corporate world her whole working life. So many tears. I can only comfort and encourage her in Christ. That's why we rely on God's word, not this bigoted and racist world. IT'S HERE TO STAY UNTIL THE SECOND COMING. So, when Christian Nationalism rails on black, brown, and Asian people and thinks Trump is going to save them, they have no clue what they are talking about.
Here's a "spot on" description of Donald Trump, may he see Jesus. The following Psalm talks about why the prosperity of the wicked seemingly never have to pay up, if you will: "Pride serves as their necklace; violence covers them like a garment. Their eyes bulge with abundance; They have more than heart could wish. They scoff and speak wickedly concerning oppression;
They speak loftily. ... It was too painful for me [to see all their prosperity and get away with it]- Until I went into the sanctuary of God; Then I understood their end. Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction. Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors" (read the whole of Psalm 73). .... Follow the truth and hope will embrace us, even with all the diversity. ... Ask the LORD for truth, and He will guide you to a safe church. Blessings!
What about the Red Indian's religion Don't u think they were the actual founder of US
There's a difference between a civilisation and a nation.
You need to read the book "Total Truth". In it, there is a ton of discussion about the Sacred/Secular split. That's your problem right there. You're under the assumption that we can be Christian and vote secular...we can be Christian on Sundays, but when it comes to politics our decisions can be based solely upon "the common good." Whatever that is. Does Jesus have all authority in heaven and on earth or just authority in what we've deemed Christian areas of life?
That’s because this man is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He like many other Fabian socialists attacks in small areas and distorts the truth to win many small victories and further the Marxist, collectivist agenda.
Other countries do a very good job of keeping their religion out of their political life. We Americans seem to have a problem with it. American Christians think they know what’s best, so that’s how they justify forcing their beliefs in the rest of us.
Joel, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I don't think it's possible in this world to vote for truth (as revealed by Jesus) every time we cast a ballot. The human fall into sin means our choices are often not as simple as "good vs. evil," because even the good options have been compromised by our sinfulness in certain ways. Don't hear me saying I think all truth is relative - not at all. I believe that absolute truth is in Jesus, who called himself "The Truth." (John 14:6) I do not believe however that we can discern Jesus' absolute truth in every political issue. Paul
It is true that we weren’t founded as a Christian nation, but I believe every elected official who claims to be a Christian has a moral obligation before God to carry out his word.
As well as non-Christians, because they are made in the image of God, and they are accountable to God as well. You’re not allowed to be an oppressor and deny peoples rights if you claim to be a non-Christian. You can’t get away with it because you claim not to be a Christian.
Can nations be Islamic?
I to am an atheist, and really appreciate this gentleman's comments.
I support christians who are rational decent and support including all regardless of beliefs.
Gooodness when you have to lie to cope
Thank you for this. You are doing Gods work.
This is the most honest video Ive seen on this topic. Thank you.
Branson, I appreciate what you said. My goal is to speak the truth in love. I fail often, but I'd like to get it as right as possible on this crucial topic,
@Paul Basden. I actually found this to be a pretty misleading video.
1. What you’re describing is more accurately described as Christian Exceptionalism, and yes, it’s a common myth in conservative Christian circles. I agree that they do indeed exaggerate the Christian roots of the country.
2. But then, you are exaggerating the neutral roots of our country. There were no Muslim founders, no Buddhist founders, and not even any Jewish founders. George Washington was a member of an Episcopal church and most of the founders, including the Deists, were Christian-ish in their practice. Jefferson did not cut the Gospels out of his Bible. He did not cut Jesus out of his Bible. He was fond of Jesus, per se. He just excluded the supernatural. Kind of irrational if you ask me, but it is what it is.
3. There was very little “religious liberty” in either the colonies or the fledgling nation. There was Protestant denominational liberty. Jews and Catholics and Muslims were often second-class citizens. Remember, even a Baptist like Roger Williams had to leave Massachusetts due to religious intolerance. The Anti-Establishment Clause had only federal jurisdiction for a long time, and several of the states retained an Establishment church for quite some time.
4. You are also being rather mean spirited in characterizing Christian Exceptionalists as “Nationalists.” Nationalism is a loaded term in our current society. It implies Anti-Semitism, Anti-Immigrant sentiments based on race rather than legal status, freezing Muslims and Buddhists and Atheists out of the political process, a staunch tribalism of us (pure Americans) vs. them (ethnically and ideologically tainted Americans). It also tends toward advocating violence if things don’t go their way. Many of the folks you are tarring with your broad brush are Philo-Semitic, only oppose illegal immigrants, have no major difficulty with other religions running for office, and are almost too far from turning to violence in the face of tyranny (unlike our founding fathers). Most of them are kindly, patriotic, model citizens, who are incredibly passive if you ask me. They let the progressive crowd roll on over them most of the time. To be true to the facts (which you say you are), our current progressive activists are FAR more likely to be violent.
To be fair, these fundamentalists are, quite frequently, more than a little racist in their day-to-day dealings with minorities. They are fairly tribalistic, and they tend toward toward being conspiratorial in their attitudes. I don’t care for their theology. Their hermeneutics run roughshod over clear biblical intent. They often lack basic critical thinking skills.
What most of them are not…is dangerous.
Those who could be rightly termed Christian Nationalists (such as White Supremacists and January 6th Insurrectionists) are not particularly devout in their “faith.” Often, they have only a very thin veneer haphazardly slopped on.
So, no, I didn’t find this video to be fair minded in the least. You can do much better than this!
@@HannahClapham What are your thoughts on Nick Fuentes?
@@asdfasdf3989 I’m having trouble wondering why you’d even want to know. Best I can tell, the man is a silly little boy in deep need of some serious counseling. He’s sometimes linked with Michelle Malkin, who displays all the symptoms of someone who has gone through a psychotic break. These are thoroughly dysfunctional people way out on the far fringes of society. How are they relevant?
@@HannahClapham How are they relevant to the conversation or to things more generally?
This needs to be heard by everyone. Especially MAGA House republicans who are entrusted with enormous decision making responsibility which affects all of us and our relationship with foreign nations.
Gary DeMar, America's Christian Founding. Or, Stephen Wolfe's The Case for Christian Nationalism- please let me know if you've interacted with these elsewhere.
Was founded on the Constitution. Separation of church and state.
My first question is who identifies as a Christian Nationalist??? This is new to me. I just started learning about Christian Nationalism. The definitions are not even consistent.
Ohhh man....I gotta start a series on Christian Socialism/leftism. This is painful.
The speaker urges us to not share what we cannot verify. Well, then I can't share this video.
Thomas Jefferson's views aren't anything new & that of Washington & or Adams.
But, how many Founding Fathers were there. How many were members of a church? Was membership much harder to attain back then?
Moreover, if a nation or university can't be Christian or have Christian roots then how can any group be Christian??? Ie a church (a body of believers) or a missionary group.
In "Tactics" by Greg Koukl he notes "Founding Father's were a specific group of delegates to the Constitution Convention. 55 made up the core: 28 were Episcopalians: 8 Presbyterians: 7 Congregationalists: 2 Lutherans: 2 Dutch Reformed: 2 Methodists: 2 Roman Catholics: 1 unknown & 3 were deists."
As for being a mixed bag, they seemed to be pulled from the same section.
In short, Christianity benefits the common good and is the most beneficial to all.
QED.
Let's get moving on Christian Nationalism. Thank you.
Christian Nationalism. The irony in white Americans wanting to take back America because they think it belongs to Christians like them without regards to the fact that Christ was born jewish, brown, and from Palestine.
@@mattisonquinn6486
America, like all nations, belong to Christ. And in Christ, "28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Stop lying about us.
Christian Nationalism has nothing to do with Christianity.
Christianity doesn't save People. It should be Jesus who does The Saving and not a religion or traditions. There is no Scripture where God says that all of America will be saved and we will have an all christian cabinet and that there will be a great end time revival. Scripture says the opposite, that there will be a great falling away and christians will fall under a strong delusion and listen to false prophets! If any man claims to be a Christian, than he needs to obey The Bible. Roman's chapter 13 Verse 1 Commands Christian's to submit to and obey the government and the leaders for they have been established you!! Jesus said in The Bible to give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what Is God's! Christian nationalism is totally unscriptual and there is no Scripture to support it!!
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
"A nation cannot be Christian." But, it CAN be founded on Biblical principles. Thomas Jefferson is the one who wrote "endowed by our Creator." He capitalized the word "Creator" on purpose. Let's follow that logically..... Oh, I guess that makes most of the founders CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS.
..... Thomas Jefferson wasn't even Christian. He was a deist, as were many of the others. That's when you believe there is a god, but reject organized religion.
In fact, Thomas Jefferson is extremely famous for his rejection of Christianity. He believed that Jesus was a mortal man to the point that he edited the Bible to remove all of the miracles, the supernatural, and Jesus's divinity.
That's right, America was founded on Heresy. Bet they didn't teach you that one in school.
So does this mean that the Christianity of early America, and since that time, had no influence on our country's morality, politics, polices, cultural issues, etc.? I honestly think if there hadn't been so much of Christianity's influences, our country would not have had all the freedoms it has enjoyed. Freedom is a CHRISTIAN ideal - our laws are based on Christian principles. Without that we would literally have so much more atheism, humanism, secularism, and all that comes from those false worldviews than we already do. Certainly we have come a long way from what we once were in terms of morality and freedoms once enjoyed, but Christ is still KING and He REIGNS now over all the earth. We need another GREAT AWAKENING like we had in our past. The widespread preaching of the gospel is so needed now more than ever.
I agree with so much of what you wrote above. Thank you for sharing it.
I agree and applaud. The earth is the Lords and everything that's in it
Wow, this video really warms my heart. Honestly!
I’ve been saying for YEARS that more Christians need to speak openly and succinctly about this topic to other Christians and here it is!
I’m an anti-theist and a former believer. How non-believers feel about Christianity should be totally irrelevant though when our democracy is at stake. This is why it’s so important for Christians to speak with their coreligionists about C&S issues like the super dangerous creeping Fascism that is Christian Nationalism (Dominionism has similar issues).
The problem, from my perspective, is that these nice folks (many of them non-violent) FEEL “persecuted” by a world that is changing too fast for them. This reactionary movement is emotional, as Trump proved, and has little to nothing to do with actual facts or the real history of our very young country. To fight these fundamentalists requires that CHRISTIANS (not just non-believers) engage on a personal level with those around them and do so with love and honesty.
Not more hate or condescension.
Use the Socratic method to simply ask questions that help these misguided folks (Cult45 and/or Christian Nationalists) understand that America is a secular nation, and that even if we were to become a Theocracy (like Saudi Arabia, for instance), WHICH SECT of Christianity would we even favor? That fact alone unravels the lies.
You already know what questions to ask.
What you need is the support and the perfectly rational belief that it’s not “rude” to talk about religion/politics with those you disagree with, especially when the line between opinion and FACT is being purposefully blurred by dishonest actors who only want to manipulate us.
I hope to see more pastors speaking against this madness.
Yes, SM has lots to do with it but it’s much deeper than that too. It’s what the RW media bubble relies on and 40% of the entire country are still Creationists who reject science outright.
It's in AMERICA'S best interest to fight this!
If there comes a time when you question the foundations of your anti-theism belief, I'd love to hear about it. My best ...
@@paulbasden8431 Why? This is what you got from all that? Do you agree or not that Christian Nationalism threatens our democracy? It's a simple topic.
My anti-theism actually aligns with that fact regarding current events. Think about it ..
@@paulbasden8431 Speaking of questions, ask yourself: Why do Christians run from the hard ones we non-believers ask you but the reverse is NEVER true?
(Pssttt... It's 'cause you're in a cult.)
In its extreme forms, Christian Nationalism threatens the credibility of Christianity and the experience of democracy in America. That's why I preached on this at the church where I serve as pastor, and why I gave an abbreviated version of it in the TH-cam talk that you watched.
@@paulbasden8431 Apologies for my tone, as I didn’t realize you were the poster and the personal inquiry made it seem like you were avoiding the topic of my thread. However, don’t you consider what SCOTUS has now done to be “extreme”? Wasn’t the 40+ year push to repeal women’s reproductive rights (or LGBT rights, etc) ALWAYS “its most extreme forms”?
I was a teen (and a believer) in the 80s when Weyrich & Fallwell were planting the seeds of this mess. Seeds which, let’s be honest now, DROVE the Republican voters for decades. Just like the 9/11 terrorists, their fundie nutjob terrorist goals were FAR surpassed.
Wasn’t it extreme Christian Nationalism to place these “Wedge Issues” above all others that might actually affect people’s lives (as we see with Progressive policies on the LW which don’t merely exploit irrational fears)?
I appreciate your willingness to be "demonized" by your coreligionists for speaking the truth, btw!
Can you be a fundamentalist without being Christian Nationalist? In all sincerity, I'm asking as a Progressive Democrat, and this isn't the first time this question has occurred to me, because of my former experience playing in the music ministry of the Charismatic Group in the Catholic Church. So, was I a Christian Nationalist (in today's terms) or a Fundamentalist (by membership, at least?
If I’m paying attention to vocal, progressive representatives, if you believe that, your rights are bestowed upon you by God instead of the state, then you are indeed a Christian nationalist if you live in America in this constitutional republic
I vote for progressive adminstrations because I believe in their political goals. If I'm a Christian Nationalist, then I'm not a very faithful one.@@jennyturner3174
I’m an English atheist and you sound like you are making a lot of sense,
It has bugged me for a while just how attached Christians in America are to the idea of America being a Christian nation. When I was younger I was still thinking through the programming that had been put into me from my younger years. I have concluded that most American "Christians" who want to force Christianity on others are not actually followers of Christ. If they were, they would have taken Him saying that His kingdom is not of this world more seriously.
Jesus never wanted to force people to become Christians, or to enforce His will onto others. He wants people to choose Him willingly. He wants people to follow His example, being salt and light in the world. Because that is how we become lights that reflect Christ, guiding people toward Him. Forcing our beliefs onto others through legislation and force has done more damage to the world's view of us as a whole than anything the Devil could do alone. Quite frankly, I think that many of the "Christians" that are pushing Christian nationalism are working for the Devil. Much alike those who started the crusades and tried to "convert" the natives of many lands.
It isn't a new concept, it is just as destructive and horrific a thought process as ever. I am glad that there are more Christians recognizing the danger that Christian Nationalism poses. We should all be aware and wary. We can't let this thought process proliferate. It must be fought, or we face horrors that could equal or surpass those of the past.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding misunderstanding of Christian Nationalism.
Christian Nationalists do not want to force-convert nonbelievers, but we do want to enforce basic Biblical morality onto them, and squash evil pagan religion.
“And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God … and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.”
- Abraham Lincoln
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
- Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln Memorial
“Whereas, the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God, in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for National prayer and humiliation…”
- Abraham Lincoln
Eric, thank you for sharing these wonderful quotes. I celebrate every part of our national heritage where God has been and is being honored. My best, Paul
Education is useless without the Bible. The Bible was America’s basic text book in all fields. God’s Word, contained in the Bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct.
- Noah Webster
In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.
- Noah Webster, Preface Noah Webster Dictionary, 1828
Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story
“I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, Harvard Speech, 1829
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
"Constitution of the United States of America"
"First Amendment"
Webster's ideals are irrelevant
“If you don’t know something to be true, don’t say it.” Great quote. I ask you to live by your own words. Because it doesn’t seem that you realize Christian principles, are what was the foundation for America. Whether or not all the founding fathers were Christians isn’t an argument is it? Probably Benjamin Franklin knew the Bible better than half of the current pastors in America and likely so did Jefferson. Point being that they had a Christian worldview that was probably better than most American Christians, even though they likely did not put their trust in the blood of Jesus.
Eric, I appreciate your response. You make a valid point that I have no desire to deny, because I'm thankful for it. There was indeed a definite Judeo-Christian worldview in the minds/hearts of many who founded our country. For that, I thank God. But in my reading of history, I don't think America was ever established as a "Christian nation." Nor do I think it's possible to have a Christian nation in this world. Paul
The devil knows the Bible better than any of us.
@@paulbasden8431 If there can be no such thing as a Christian nation, does that mean there can be no such thing as a pagan nation? Or an atheist nation? Can a nation be pagan in the same sense that a person is a pagan or an atheist? Does that also mean there can be no such thing as a godly nation as David referred to in Psalms?