Unwritten Dutch rules to follow in the Netherlands | American in the Netherlands
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2021
- When I first visited the Netherlands, I kept making cultural faux pas, mistakes that I didn't realize I shouldn't be making! Now that I've lived in the Netherlands for some time, I wanted to share five unwritten Dutch rules that I try to follow as an American expat in the Netherlands.
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I like to share my experiences of an American expat in the Netherlands. I describe both the unique and everyday aspects of Dutch culture, and life in Holland while enjoying every bit of it!
Blog website: www.dutchamericano.com
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Get in touch: dutchamericanonl@gmail.com
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We use the bell on the bike sparingly, yes. Or else traffic would be a deafening cacophony. Note that, in the Netherlands, hooting the klaxon in your car can actually be fined when police deem that you had no valid reason to use it - the judgment at their discretion.
Same goes with the bell actually! I mean the police won't fine your for it, but in the law it states that ringing your bell without reason is illegal. It can cause confusing and thus danger in traffic because we use it only in "emergency" cases. It was the scare tactic that they used when you had to do your 'verkeersexamen', so you won't be that annoying kid ringing your bell all the time.
@@kemismits6158 At the same time, though, if there is no bell installed on your bike, you're likely to be fined for that as well!
I think I've ever only used mine to indicate that I'm going to pass someone
@@bobosims1848 I mean sure if you brake randomly in the middle of the road that's a dick move cus it's dangerous, but obviously taking off your brakes entirely is also a dick move because that's dangerous in case you do need them :') The same goes for the bell, if there is an emergency it's dangerous not to have it so you have to have it even though you preferably don't get to use it.
Actually I have two bells on my bicycle. One is the ordinary 'ring-ring' for alarm, which I never use.
The other one gives just one 'ping'. I use it (sparingly, I prefer to whistle a happy tune) to warn pedestrins on the narrow bikelanes in the woods around Zeist.
I notice in Amsterdam, probably everywhere in NL, when you are a pedestrian and come to a zebrapad, you should have right of passage before everything else. But, all pedestrians give right of way to bikes. It's like we all know, it's as pedestrian much easier to stop for a moment, than for a bike. Thus we all wait to help cyclists. But cars, they just have to stop. We're out in the weather. ;)
Nah just Amsterdam. The rest of the country simply crosses.
More like most pedestrians expect bikers either not to know the proper traffic rules or to just not give a flying fig about them. Same reason why pedestrians are often also stop at a zebrapad for cars even though they have right of way, cars are just a lot harder and more durable then their own skins. And you never know if the car isn't driven by an asshole who think he's above the rules. (I've had cars honk and gesture at me for crossing in front of them on a zebrapad in the past and once or twice nearly hitting me if I hadn't jumped of in time.)
@@PhoenixNL72-DEGA- The trick with cars in the Netherlands is to not look at cars when you cross. I know I must be careful, but I walk and cars stop but the I and other pedestrians walk with arrogance, the more careful cars, in general, will have to be. The trick also lies in timing. Cars need space to break, not idiots jumping in front of them. ;)
@@KootFloris Yeah, until you encounter an asshole that thinks he's king of the road. Like I said I had to jump of a zebrapad a couple of times, and usually at the other end of it cause the car just refused to slow down at all. (Especially people who drive status car brands like Mercs and BMWs seem to suffer from this, like they are too good to break for others)
And then there are those drivers that honk their horn and make rude gestures if you start passing WELL before they are close to the zebra and are just angry that you had the audacity to not let them pass before you. It might be different in small towns or villages, but in major cities drivers can be aholles. (And I'm dutch as were my parents, grandparents and greatgrandparents)
@@PhoenixNL72-DEGA- But do you live in NL? Because here honking for nothing is forbidden. Can even get you fined. I never had to jump out of the way. But I time carefully and then walk like I own the place. In Amsterdam. But perhaps different cities, different customs. Like in rich neighborhoods with few pedestrians, I'm way more careful.
Even in Amsterdam I never had an issue ordering just something to eat in a cafe. I think it was just the way you said it that was rude, haha. Usually when I do it they say “you want nothing to drink?” and when I reply “No thank you” it’s perfectly fine.
Me too. Not rude at all.
You can even ask for free tap water and there won't be an issue :)
There is a bar in Utrecht (in Neude) where a sign says they don't have a kitchen, and you are invited to go and bring back food. As long as you buy a drink from them.
100% this that first point is just wrong.
Yea, i guess it's pretty much the same all over Europe, except for Italy.
They however have a reason ... the food costs like 10 Euro and the drink 8.
Ofcourse we Dutch prefer to speak Dutch most of the time.
When someone stays long-term in the Netherlands, I find it appalling when that person doesn''t make a serious effort to learn Dutch. Which means reading Dutch, writing Dutch, listening to Dutch, and speaking Dutch.
So true. Keep in mind that you do not have to be fluent as we understand that learning a new language is hard but we want to see you make a effort. If you do we can be patient and help you with words you do not know yet.
Let's face it, most dutch speak Dutch, English and German. But a lot will also speak French or Spanish. If we take the effort to learn your language for the 2 weeks we spend in your country, the least you can do is the same.
I never understood people that come here (French, German, eastern europe, etc) without even speaking english and just demand that we talk to them in their language.
O and don't badmouth a Dutchman in your own language, we may not speak it but we may know how to swear in it.
I can swear in Dutch, English, German, French, Spanish, (Brazilian)Portugese, Russian, Hebrew, Japanese, Italian, Arabic and probably a few more that I forgot but that will pop up again if I hear them.
So...you expect them to go Dutch? 🤣
Well according to my experience having loads of Expats as colleagues is the Dutch in reality don't have the patience for foreigners the practise Dutch by letting them talk Dutch. Every single try lasts half a sentence at most and the Dutch switch to English. This applies to professional AND social life. Foreigners don't stand a chance.
@@endthisnonsense7202 That's true. When talking 1 on 1, it's almost impossible to stop the Dutch person from speak english. We are good in English and we embrace the opportunity to show it off ;) However, in a group of Dutch people with one person not talking Dutch (like work), this person is usually going to mis out on 90% of what's being said.
@@DutchObserver [However, in a group of Dutch people with one person not talking Dutch (like work), this person is usually going to mis out on 90% of what's being said.]
True, but THAT is not typical for Dutch native speakers, it's typical for humans. In any setting where there is a majority of native speakers of any language, that language dominates the conversation regardless of the capability of the minority to speak/understand it. You'll see exactly the same in a group of 2 Frisians and 1 Dutch person in the Netherlands, or for instance 2+ Indonesian native speakers and 1 Dutch person. Two Russians and a Japanese and so on and so on.
Yeah. We don’t stand in “line” but we do go on turn. She came in first. She is before me, done.
Exactly!!
If there is no definite queue, it is sort of 'überpolite' to ask 'Who was the last?'
@@woutbakker7319 you’d simply ask “ is it my turn or were you first ?” But usually we kinda know who came in after us, so if no one is left that we didn’t see come in after us it’s our turn.
You can often see the last person go in before you, so you know you're after them. :D
Most of the the time but there are definitely plenty of “asos” as well.
So the last one is a little bit weird.
Actually it comes down to you being surprised that people in the Netherlands like to speak their own language while being in the Netherlands.
Just wait until she visits France or Germany... "Was machen sie?! Sprich einfach Deutsch! Bist du verrückt oder was?" :D
@@david6054 In France they pretend they do not understand you at all, until you made at least an effort to speak some French words.
The surprising thing for me was that most Dutch people automatically switch to English when needed, especially younger people. Even the people who don't speak English very well at least try to, unlike in countries like France and Germany.
@@NeiloNeil some do, most Dutch people don't but are to polite to refuse. If I found out people are not tourists and live here a couple of years I refuse to speak english. You Never Will become part of society if you don't speak their native language
@@boldvankaalen3896 yea allot of them cant speak it
Nothing rude about denying the things you don't want, you are the customer. Niets onbeleefd aan wanneer je als klant dan reageert met: " Alleen de appeltaart graag".
Totally agree. Not rude at all. I am Dutch and I also sometimes also just order the food. It’s okay really. 😊
However. I grew up around Americans. 😆
Maybe not rude, but definitely weird. Just like me getting weird looks at McDonalds when I only ordered some fries.
I kinda suspect that your girlfriend meant was that "and that's OK" will probably come off as patronizing. Like others said "Just apple pie please", would have been more appropriate.
True. The waitress was rude, not you.
First let me say: thank God we're all different, otherwise we'd be all the same.
1- Cafe's were originally/culturally intended for drinking. Being able to get something to eat is just an added bonus. Having said that, I wouldn't consider it rude if all you did was order a bite to eat. Maybe you should say: just the apple pie, please?
Of course, Amsterdam, being the tourist trap that it is, may have some more unwritten rules. Like trying to sell as much as they can to unwitting tourists.
2- Dutch never stand neatly in line as our British and apparently US neighbors do. Just keep a mental note of who was there first and who arrives after you. And don't forget to ask of the people in front of you if they are already being serviced.
However we do have places where you can draw a number, usually at the butcher's or in government buildings, as you said.
3- Nothing wrong with ringing your bell. It's just that the infrastructure here usually keeps all participants out of each others way. Roads for cars, bike paths for bikes, sidewalks for pedestrians.
4- Obviously, going WITH the traffic avoids more accidents than going AGAINST the traffic...Duh.
Furthermore, in cities, the first traffic law that comes to mind is usually the law of the jungle: show no fear and you will get right of way.
But we do have actual traffic laws, such as yield to traffic from the right etc. Also important to realize is that pedestrians and cyclists are considered more vulnerable because... they are. This is visible in our laws and fines. Hit a pedestrian or a cyclist with your car and you are automatically found at fault and guilty. This may be a difference with the US where cars are 'holy'.
5- Would you rather speak your native tongue in the US, or Dutch? Obviously, the Dutch prefer to speak Dutch. It's our language. Just because we like to show off our skills, doesn't mean we want to do it indefinitely.
An average Dutch grown up has a vocabulary of about 42000 words. A person with a collage education or more knows 60000 words or more. In a foreign language actively knowing 4500 words is considered good, and after living somewhere for a few years you may get over the 10000 words. Speaking a foreign language you constantly realise you are missing details and emotions. That is the reason you prefer your mother tongue!
Indeed, and this is the Netherlands, so that's the home language. Unless there's a lot of foreigners around. Then I've learned to speak English so they may join the conversation.
This is why you should try speaking the other persons language in a conversation. So the American speaking Dutch to a Dutchman speaking English. This way there is very little chance of using a word that the other person doesn't know.
And if you are hearing your mother tongue all day you're thinking in that language, but having to speak in an other all of the sudden. It gets easier and less tiering if you are only speaking the other language for a longer period of time. I always have to get used to the way you move your mouth while speaking an other language 😅
@@ST-vt4nu It takes a while to switch from Dutch to English and back. I often find myself mixing english with dutch or dutch with english words at first like an engine struggeling to get started , but once I get going I'm fine.
@@Scarletcroft I was raised bilingual. Dutch-Frisian. I learned english very young. now I'm 50 and if someone switches from one language to another I don't even notice...
something that happens a lot; I can't remember a word in the right language. so I'm mixing three languages and it's terrible.
What the hell, I have lived in the Netherlands for my entire life and I have NEVER had a bad experience when not ordering anything to drink.
I think she felt bad rather than was treated badly. The waitress was likely confused that her friend ordered a drink and she didn't.
We do use the bell on the bike though, usually when people are blocking the bicycle lane or to give them a heads up that we are going to overtake them. Yes some people take it as rude, but it should be used as a signal that you want to overtake someone if you can't get past them.
For overtaking, I only see people using their bell if space is limited. I've never seen people do that is there is a lot of space (excluding little kids).
I've been a bartender (and patron) in Amsterdam for more years then I'd like to admit and there's nothing wrong with only ordering apple pie. In that situation, it wouldn't even have been a problem if your girlfriend ordered something but you politely declined. And if the waiter made it out to be, that's one of those situations in which you apply a light touch of Dutch directness. ;-)
I'm also verry confused how that was rude, no need to buy and pay for something you don't want. Usually people do also order drinks i don't generaly see people that don't also order drinks but i'm pretty sure that's not needed to not be rude. Even if it might be considdered rude it's fine, saving money is verry Dutch :P.
So true! Nothing rude about you ordering only apple pie. I sometimes use a saying: “welk woord begrijp je niet van ‘nee’?” . Yes, that’s rude. Sometimes people ‘need’ that kind of rudeness. 😅 When they realy don’t listen to you…😊
The bicycle bell thing is entirely true; there's only one commonly agreed upon moment to ring your bell, and that's the moment about 2/10ths of a second before impact, presumably so the other person has an instant to brace themselves.
So true!!
Why ring at all, the bell will ring automatically if you hit them hard enough :')
Oh, something else about the queue thing: you can make good use of the lack of a queue when at a bus stop. If you accurately gauge where the door of the bus will be when it stops, and you position yourself there, you will be, by definition, at the front of the queue.
LOL, so I'm not the only one doing that :-) ?
Yeah, fun sport for teenager boys.
A highlight in the daily commute when you get it exactly right ;)
@@lotteyanson4033 well of course I ALWAYS got it right, PERIOD!
Restaurant owner saying: “They eat me poor and drink me rich” 😄
thats vd valk
@@groenekever No, that's everywhere in the restaurant business. Margins on drinks are 3/4 times the margins on food.
About waiting your turn, just ask: wie is er als laatste? Then you only have to pay attention to 1 person and the next person should do the same. Very common in my hometown at least
Same here, in all the smaller shops like butcher or bakery or at the local outdoor market. Or in the ‘patatkraam’
Yeah and if you tend to forget U usually wil have the person behind you say "no no he/she was here before me. Go ahead"
That is unless the person behind you is a woman that wants cheese :D
@@david6054 she is also a customer🤣
@@MrDanfra I was wondering if anyone would get the reference in English :D
I always track who is already in the room and who comes after me so I have a roughly idea of when it's my turn. And In general it's not a big deal if I get one place in front or someone that got later gets in front of me.
Yeah, that ‘line’ thing, while there’s no line.
I always look for the one that came into the shop after me. So I don’t mind who takes their turn before me, as long as it is not that one person that I’m keeping an eye on. If every one acts to that rule, there’s an invisible line.
Hi Eva, loved the video!
Regarding Dutch traffic, what I usually explain to exchange students is that it’s better to be predictable than to be correct, especially while cycling or walking. We tend to move around each other, but that can only work if all parties roughly know how the rest will move. So, like you said, don’t waver when you want to cross the road, either clearly do it or clearly wait :)
This is where the bell comes in. I would only use the bell when I think someone might do something unpredictable or when they’re in the way. I would ring my bell when people are swerving on the road, when parents cycle with their children (children tend to swerve more often), when groups of people are blocking the road, or when a pedestrian suddenly crosses the street without looking (very annoying :P).
Although it might seem to be the case that we speak fluent English, I feel that it is rarely the case that someone is completely fluent. Speaking a foreign language usually still comes with some difficulties. For example, it is a lot easier to make jokes in your native tongue, especially jokes that rely on language, such as puns. These make conversations more lighthearted and can really help you bond with someone. Also, it is difficult to create subtle nuances in language that help steer the tone of the conversation. Unfortunately, that means that, in my experience, English is mainly used to share information in some way. Which at some point can become quite exhausting without the language-play we tend to include while speaking Dutch ;)
Hear hear on being better to be predictable! The person in front of me being predictable allows me to be predictable to the person behind me, keeping everyone safer :D
The absolute worst is people who cannot seem to make a decision, waffling and making aborted moves, like, I don't /want/ to hit you, but you're making it really hard for me to actually know where you are and dodge you :/
The last rule is so true! Me and my girlfriend speak English on a near-native level. We have a lot of friends who moved here to study and don't speak Dutch (very well). So whenever they come over we speak English to them, but we take absolutely every chance to switch back to Dutch (without being rude of course). This doesn't really make a lot of sense because we're both very comfortable speaking English. I think the main reason is that it takes just a little more effort to speak your second language.
Exactly! I am fluent in English, but Dutch is my mother tongue and I don't need to think about it for a second. I am comfortable in, and have no problem with speaking English, but it is still a tad bit less easy than my mother tongue. I think this goes for most people who were raised in one language and are fluent in a second.
To me it's also just making the sounds. I can speak Dutch with no effort, but in English I stumble over my words, even though my vocabulary is pretty big. There's just some sounds that are tongue twisters to me, even though they don't have to be. Try saying "Short Circuit" for example.
Hi Ava, number 5 on your list blows my mind, since most expats complain about not getting the opportunity to learn to speak Dutch, since almost all Dutch people like to practice their English on expats and foreign visitors, even if the expat is speaking at least rudimentary Dutch. You can find this complaint from expats all over the internet in videos, podcasts and written material. Dutch people are known for switching into English in a heartbeat without even thinking about it, since it is their second language, which they learned in school from grade eight onwards. Also Dutch television does not synchronize foreign programs, but do subtitles instead, which is great for easy adoption of foreign languages like English and German and occasionally even French or Spanish. I have had similar experiences in Germany and in dealing with German business relations. I speak German quite well, but as soon as a German finds out you’re foreign, they automatically switch to English. I think this is a courtesy thing by thus leveling the playing field for both parties. Anyways, keep up the good work and keep posting your interesting videos.
One of many things I love about visiting The Netherlands is that people there never assume you don't speak Dutch. I'm not white, and strangers always start speaking to me in Dutch, and I say I only speak English (I speak other languages, but that is not the point), and they immediately switch to English. It's really nice. Also, the Dutch always treat me like I'm a fellow human being just like them, whereas in Germany, Austria, and France, some people treated me like I was sub-human or something.
Hey Ava :-) Nope .. you can definately order something to eat without ordering something to drink! Just maybe a bit more uncommon but for sure not rude! You are customer so you decide! :-)
About the waiting: You usually just ask: Wie was de laatste? :-)
About speaking Dutch or English when you are bilingual: There is always a language in which you feel more comfortable and you are more capable to express your feelings and opinions. For most Dutchies that is of course ..Dutch! So in a situation at work or among friends the urge to express exactly what you feel or think is dominant over being on common ground with language. And: If I compare my ability to communicate in English or Dutch, I don't mind WRITING English but I prefer talking Dutch if I really want to be well understood. Does that make sense to you? In writing you can "compose" the message just until it reflects your feelings while in speach it is out in the open without any chance to take back what you said ;-) Have a wonderful Sunday Ava!
totally agree!
In the Netherlands there is a saying. "Ze eten je arm, maar drinken je rijk." Which means (loosely translated) "By eating they make you poor, by drinking they make you rich." Which stemms from the old habit that most of the time cafes and restaurants do not earn much on the food. But they do have a big margin on drinks.
Cheers! 🍻
I lived with someone from the US for 10 years My experience that even when your english is good and you have a large vocabulary it is easier to express yourself in your own language when the conversation goes deeper. Special early in the morning during a meeting and you are just awake. Or when your angry or have a disagreement But that is just me. My grandson is 11 and can speak and read English very well. His school starts teaching english to kids when they are 4 years old.
What we (used to) do when entering a busy waiting room, is ask who's the last one in.
So everyone knows who's in front and behind them in line.
The 5th rule also applies for other countries. I'm working in an international environment. In meetings and work we spreak English, but in informal coffee chats Portugese/Brazilian, just speak Portugese. Chinese just spreak chinese when there aren't non Chinese persons around. Similar when Dutch have a coffee chat. I also see it for myself, that i go back to Dutch (outside by work environment) even then there is a non native spreaking person is around.
In my opinion, a country has a language for a reason. So of course when you are in a certain country people prefer speaking that language. You can't expect a country to forget it's own language because it has internationals in it (not saying she expected that), because why would it have their own language to begin with. No matter how fluent you are in a certain language. Speaking in your native language will always be easier.
I don't think it's rude to not order a drink. But they make the most profit on drinks. * Knowing where you are in line is the result of not being as isolated or as much living in a bubble as White Americans -- gasp -- no offense. * An unwritten unofficial rule in Amsterdam (only) is that pedestrians have a right of way on bikers and bikers on drivers. It's the sympathy for the underdog. And traffic lights: red means go ahead, green means watch the scene. * Speaking Dutch is just more gezellig! We feel fake when we need to speak this English that feels plastic, unnatural. Not using our small words as 'wel,' 'toch,' 'een beetje' make it hard for us to express the nuances that we have in Dutch.* In the Netherlands, people don't need so much space around them like USers. So, they don't say "excuse me" whenever they pass someone within 3 feet. It's annoying to have to pay attention to someone saying "excuse me" who doesn't need anything from you. :-) You didn't notice? * Great video! Keep up the good work!
Never ever have I heard of the fact that you have to order a drink in a café with your apple pie, just leave if they tell you otherwise 🤣
Hoi. Ik ben Nederlandse en ik vind jouw videos geweldig. Er zijn zoveel typische dingen waar ik nooit over nadenk. Ga zo door.
It's so nice watching how well you share your thoughts.
You're doing a great job, Ava. I admire your courage and openness.
Hi, if i want just apple pie and nothing to drink i do it and it is not considered rude or cheap.
Hello my name is Remco from the Netherlands 😅
I love these little sneakpeaks into our ways as the Dutch, and am bingewatching your videos atm. I often find myself nodding along, sometimes I'm surprised and I am curious all the time what you will bring up next. For instance, I didn't really know about the drink rule. I guess it just never comes up? The standing in line thing really made me laugh, knowing where you are in line probably is second nature to us. Every ones in a while somebody tries to sneak in line and everybody knows it. But I think odds are less then 50/50 anyone speaks up, we just look at eachother in recognition that the sneaky git is in fact a loony.
Niet alle nederlanders letten op bij het wachten. Ik sta meestal wat te dromen. Daarom vraag ik als het drukker is vaak: "Wie was de laatste". Dan hoef ik alleen die persoon in de gaten te houden.
Not all Dutch are paying attention while in line. Most of the time I'm daydreaming. That's why when it's busy I ask "who was last" when coming in. That way I only have to pay attention to one person. Of course I do watch who is coming in after me. So I know they are not skipping the line. Any attempt to do so will be met with a firm and slightly hostile "It's not your turn". ;-)
As for preferring to speak dutch. The reason for that is quite simple. Most people don't speak English daily so despite the fact that they perfectly capable of speaking english it still takes a little bit more effort and it tires you. Something you must have noticed yourself. If you speak Dutch for multiple hours your brain gets tired and it becomes more difficult.
But maybe that's just me?
Tip with the standing in line, If someone looks badly at you you can ask "Was u voor mij?" = "where you in front of me?", if they say yes, then always excuse yourself. But just knowing the person in front of you helps most of the times. It also may happen that it is your turn without you knowing and then there will be an akward silence which is a small signal that its probably your turn, just ask to be sure when that happens : )
Before I use my bell I usually try to make different noises with my bike, if their is enough time for that. Clicking with my handbrakes or thumping my pedals. Usually that's enough to make people notice. If they don't Ill ring away and even feel justified doing it.
The bell has a purpose, when a 'dangerous' situation is about to happen the bell is there to alert the other person. Just like the horn of a car. You use them only when necessary.
I have a friend who’s from England, and been living in the Netherlands for many years now. Although he speaks and understands Dutch perfectly, he prefers to speak English. So while we all speak Dutch to each other, he speaks English. Works like a charm, we all perfectly understand each other (although often times I find myself automatically switching to English during conversations with him).
Eva, your tips are very helpful in may case, just arriving to The Netherlands
On speaking Dutch... I think Dutch sometime too easy switch to English ;-) In comparison with Germans or French, the Dutch directly switch to English when someone has an foreign accent. The only thing I notice at work is that we like to switch to Dutch if everyone is capable of speaking it... because it is our native language. And I have some colleagues that live now several years in the Netherlands and are capable of at least understanding Dutch. So then the time has comes that we actual should switch, although we still don't... and still speak English in all meetings all day:-D
I am Dutch and I like to watch your videos to learn more about my own country. How expacts see it.
I know a other unwritten role: Wait for people to go out of the train/tram/bus before go in yourself. I don't reminder how if it goes in the USA, but I saw in Italy people didn't do that.
In my corner of the US we are very multicultural, and whether you wait for people to get off first or just push your way on seems to depend primarily on what your native culture happens to be. In my neighborhood, waiting politely will most often mean people pushing around you impatiently to grab up all the seats first.
Just moved to The Netherlands from Brazil, your content is really nice 🙃
Finally, you have learned the time-honored Dutch folk-sport of complaining! Congratulations! And no, I am not being a sarcastic jerk, I mean it.
We do love to complain lol. Even if everything is so perfect there is nothing to complain about, we will complain about that.
In cafes most Dutch people order a drink and don't order something something to eat. (Cake, cookies, bread rolls). Next time just say politiely that you are not thirsty (ik heb momenteel geen dorst maar wil graag wel appeltaart met slagroom bestellen)
Agreed. You don't have to order something to drink. They just ask you if you want a drink first.
A friendly 'Nee dank je' is enough.
Who the hell uses "momenteel"(at the moment) in that situation? That's the kind of thing you might find in a textbook, not on the street. Just use the word "nu"(now) or simply say "Nee bedankt, alleen een appeltaart alstublieft"(No thanks, just a apple pie please.)
I think most bike things are easily explained by thinking of bike lanes as roads in New York City (Or at least the way it's portrayed in films):
If you stand in the bike lane you can expect similar reactions to standing in the middle of the road. And people ringing their bell comes off similarly to people honking their horns. Since you're a New Yorker, I'm curious if the analogy helps you (or if you can think of some obvious way in which it would break down.)
Actually, I noticed this difference as well, one time when I was in Florida. I noticed that USA people have the tendicy to automatically go stand in line. I found this very uncomfy as a Dutch person being used to stand in a group. Mostly when we enter such a waiting area, we mostly simply ask: "who was last?". That way you only have to keep track of that person. Very simple!
The going with the flow in traffic rule is so important. The main thing to keep in mind is: don't be apprehensive. Either do it or don't. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard my parents cuss someone out for not communicating clearly where they are going haha
I also wanted to be able to make a little ring on my bike instead of the usual ring-ring, so I bought a race biker ringer. This gives one single "ding" sound and is way more friendly. The regular ring-ring sounds like "move aside!!". A single ding sounds like "just in case you didn't see me comming".
It is pretty much supposed to mean "move aside".
@@generaldreagonlps6889 for me, not always. More often I just want somebody to be aware of me being there, to prevent an accident, in case they don't pay enough attention to their surroundings.
Regarding the remembering your place in line, I (as a Dutchman) find that it becomes even more difficult at a place like a fishmonger. The sales(wo)man will ask "Who's next?" and then you can look at those that are before you, not realizing that they are not waiting in line, but that they have already ordered and are waiting for their order to be prepared, so you're next in line before you think you are.
When I walk into a shop with people standing around, I always ask the person closest to me if they are the last in line. Either you get a Yes and then know you're after them or they will say "No, he/she is" and you know when your turn is
Hi Ava! Loved your video like always. Just wanted to add to your comment on dutch cafés. I’m a barista myself (not in Amsterdam) and I’ve never noticed the expectation of having to order a drink with your food. Sure wait staff might be a bit confused at first but I wouldn’t say it’s rude at all! Might just be an Amsterdam thing xx
You missed one most Americans get wrong: if you call someone, especially if you call a phone that has multiple possible people who can answer it: identify yourself first before asking for who you want to speak to!
True indeed!
Meh, I'm so used to speaking, reading and writing English, having worked at Universities where there are many international meetings, study material English and so on. Also preferring to have my computer's operating system and applications in English as the Dutch translations are often rather clumsy. I even catch myself thinking in English. As my partner is from the US, I even speak English to our cats :)
Never miss speaking Dutch, even while I appreciate it. I just don't have a preference.
Hi Eva,
nice channel!!
I think that if the waitress/waiter suggest that you should order a drink, it is their way of trying to boost your expenditures. They are supposed to be in a commercial role. But you can order whatever you want, as long as you order something.
About speaking Dutch over English, in my group of Dutch friends (which might not be "standard") we've caught ourselves speaking English when it's just us. And US friends who immigrated and really wanted to learn and practice their Dutch had to remind us to speak Dutch to them, as we switched to English so very easily. But, YMMV as they say :D
What happens to me as an American living in NL. I want to practice my Dutch, but my Dutch friends always want to speak English with me to practice their English!
Your story on the apple pie made me grin. It’s absolutely true: it’s quite unheard of to be in a cafe in the Netherlands and then not order something to drink. The reason for this might be that, originally, there was quite a principal distinction between a restaurant - where you came to eat out - and a bar/café - where you came to drink. Ofc, the coming of ‘eetcafé’s’ and things like that since the 1980s has somewhat blurred this distinction, but a cafe remains primarily a place to drink - and not necessarily to eat stuff. There might also be a more literary reason. Willem Kloos, one of the best Dutch poets from the late 1800s, once famously said “natuur is een mooi ding - maar je moet er wel iets te drinken bij hebben” (“nature is wonderful and all - but you need something to drink with it”). Now, if one of the most brilliant of Dutch poets gives such a recommendation, who are we to disagree to it....?
De drie Graefjes is a really great bakery. Red velvet cake! Anyway, I love watching your video's. We learn so much about ourselves here. :O)
About rather speaking Dutch. I guess it's also to do with a sense of identity, I guess most people are kind of proud of their country and the language is a big part of the identity of a country, so I guess it goes for everyone, not just Dutch people. You can see it very clearly with people who immigrate to an other country but still it's important to them to teach their kids the language of their home country.
I wasn't even aware about the queue situation.. :D
Nooit bij de patatkraam gestaan? Dat is de ideale 'niet in de rij staan' situatie.
@@eefneleman9564 Op de markt net zo.
Of bij de bakker. Je vraagt bij binnenkomst: wie was er laatst? En dan hoef je maar 1 gezicht te onthouden
There are traffic rules in the Netherlands for pedestrians crossing the street even when there is no pedestrian crossing.
The rule of thumb is: if the pedestrian wants to cross the street orthogonal of where the traffic is on the pedestrian has to wait, and on the other hand traffic that would turn left/right and the pedestrian wants to cross that sidestreet then the traffic has to wait.
first of all: i really like your vids! i am dutch, i was wondering about the outsiders perspective so i stumbled upon your channel and have been watching and listening for over an hour now! so kudos for that! now the main reason for my comment: if you like to eat pies i strongly recommend that you visit limburg and order a limburgsche vlaai, imo they are the best! :) small note: people there are not as "hard" and direct there than they are in amsterdam, so keep that in mind ;)
About ordening drinks in a café. I think the waitress was asking because most people go to a café in the first place to get a drink and food second. It is like going to a restaurant and only order a drink and then be surprised the waiter asking what you would like to eat.
I live in the border of Germany and Netherlands and i would say Dutch are the friendliest..they would always speak to me or try to speak in english and i can see the willingness of them to help..a big difference from germans who can speak english..in my first two years here, i have to bring my husband with me everytime i have appointment in Germany (til now sometimes), but i can go out and face people alone and do my errands in the Netherlands without hesitation..All smiles and good vibes in the Netherlands 😎
- From a Filipina with a german husband
People on their phone are not really there. Therefore they are not in the mental Line and they end up waiting for hours.
If you are waiting on tour turn IT is considered rude to be on your phone..
Thanks for posting this video, even though it has been a couple of months already.
1) I used to work in the foodservice and I believe that it is custom to order drinks because that is where the money for the business is. Generally, food is priced at the cost of buying and preparing it, including some of the overhead costs. But the real money comes from the drinks. For example, the price to buy a can of pop was (back in the day) € 0,45 per can (uncooled), and it was sold for € 1,50 (cooled). Of course, this experience is over 10 years ago.
2) Hehe... Yes, this is funny. I do believe it is changing since people are on their phones more. Let's see how this develops.
3) What's this bell-thing you talked about?
4) It is true. This is also one of the reasons why we have so many roundabouts compared to other countries. I think that "Not Just Bikes" has a video on that topic.
5) Yeah... Sorry about that.
I have been alive in The Netherlands for 35 years and working in the food-service industry for 16, and I have never heard of the rule that you have to order a drink with your food. If someone just orders cake, sure, we'll try to upsell you a drink, but it's definitely not weird or rude.
The only instance I can think of that would be weird is going to a fancy restaurant and only ordering a drink.
Regarding the bikes: ringing your bell isn't rude, a lot of cyclists are rude. I've seen so many cyclists looking at their phones or not putting their arm out when they turn that it's no surprise to me that they don't ring their bell when they pass someone. To me it's only normal that you go 'ringring, I'm here, be careful please!', but then again I often feel out of place with a lot of typical Dutch behaviour. :')
I love your videos Ava! As for the preference of Dutch speaking vs English. I think in the street, when an English speaking person is in a shop and tries to speak Dutch, but is not very skilled at it, we appreciate it, but usually prefer English as it works better to be on a more level playing ground. This will be different from most work environments, where you want to communicate on a rather different, more professional level. There most Dutch will definitely prefer to communicate on Dutch. So it is more a matter of what the general level is, and what all that participate in that communication can handle in terms of the level of complexity.
That apple pie without a drink one is so silly. I have to assume that you just put that in to rile up some extra engagement in the comments. And it worked! Well played.
Over here in Winterswijk it's very common to ask who was last when you enter a full bakery for example so you only have to watch one person
Still looking forward to Eva's Dutch Cheese Review.
Good excuse to travel the NL and try all the cheeeeese ^_^
Btw, fun video again. Thnx.
About the "no line"thing: I remember reading somewhere that in Spain (I think), when people enter into a shop or such where people are waiting, you ask out loud "who's last", so you then know that when they have been served, it's your turn. Seems like a practical way of doing that: no line (so you can for exmple already look into the counter what you want) and also no ticket/number system the vendor needs to buy.
In Spain and Greece it was common to place a shoe in the line 😉 and then you can sit down 🤣 waiting for the next shoe to go back to the owner
I am Dutch. I never thought about these things but I think you have a sharp eye about them. By the way, I think you are doing great learning Dutch. It is probably harder for English speaking people than for others since the Dutch will switch to English if they struggle (meaning you don't learn). For other languages the Dutch probably cannot switch, not even for Germans. So I found that native English speaking people usually don't speak Dutch that well. It seems you do and take real effort.
I start to ramble. What I really wanted to say is that your videos are insightful. For me it is useful to keep unintended rudeness in check. Keep up the good work.
That was funny! :-)
Hearing your bike story and how much you enjoy biking here, I'm sure you've heard of the Not Only Bikes youtube channel. It's a Canadian guy who is an urban planner and he's explained these obvious and subtle differences in how Dutch and American and Canadian cities work.
As usual...a highly enjoyable video. Oh...and watch out for the little old ladies trying to sneak in front!
I love the subtle awareness the Dutch have here about the invisible line. However, when people push forward we become quite direct about it and we let you know you have to go back in the line and wait your turn. We can be very frustrated or angry by that behavior.
Ringing when cycling is still used when people are cycling outside of the city. We do that so we let people know we're about to pass them by. But nowadays people have headphones or earplugs and are listening to music, so there's a chance they don't hear it.
Nice to hear your perspective on things!
Relatable
The invisible line is an example of how natural it is to be organized, the same thing in Sweden. This is an important reason why the Netherlands is one of the best functioning countries in the world (top ten in almost all welfare areas).
Here in my home town people usually use the back door, called the poort in Dutch, which is mostly unlocked during the day.
Your second point, while not standing in line, you have to remember the sequence seems identical to me (and as confusing) as a 4-way crossing in the US ☺️
When I have to wait, I just ask "who was last before me?" when I come in. Someone will answer, and then I know to whom I must pay attention.
I am dutch and have always lived in Brabant. I have always learned that you have to ring your bell when you want to pass someone when biking. Everyone does. I haven't heard anything else here. Want to pass someone else while biking? Ring your bell! In all other cases, don't!
Strange to hear that anyone can think differently
Come to Utrecht, really do not keep ringing your bell 10 times per minute ;). As it's crowded and people keep overtaking others, just go, don't ring a bell. Just overtake (somewhat) safely :)
@@CobisTaba well it's obviously different here!
I also never learned that, sorry. IMHO, you just do that when others are blocking you from overtaking savely.
@@vincinoyb9734 That's exactly what I meant to say. When you want to pass someone who's blocking you or just being difficult to overtake, you ring you bell. In the video I got the inpression that you NEVER should ring your bell in such cases. And that seems weird to me
I am from Brabant too, but I think the difference is do you ring your bell when you can't pass and want to pass or always when your passing, even when it's easy. Because I have never seen anyone ringing their bell just to let them know I pass. When someone does I would think it's rude like "what do you want for? You can pass easily, are you expecting me to make even more room for you, because I can't". I live in a village and the unspoken rule is you ring your bell to let people know to make room when they didn't yet. Only use it in 'emergencies'. Basically what Vinci Noyb is saying
I think the ringing the bell thing is because we only use the bell when there is danger or we can't pass. So if you ring the bell at someone as you are passing, it is perceived as you saying: hey I can't pass, even if there might be room
#5: I believe it depends on the region you are in or specific people who prefer to speak Dutch over English. Most people really don't have a problem at all speaking English, no matter the circumstances. Maybe you've met some people who don't feel comfortable enough speaking English all the time. On the other hand: if you do meet people who prefer to speak Dutch, it might help you in your Dutch proficiency faster.
Hi, in cities you go in one direction, you go with the flow, outsite cities you go agains the flow so you can see the treffic and the treffic can see you...that's when there are no walkways..
I live in a Dutch village and ringing your bicycle bell is perfectly acceptable here. In fact, it is common courtesy to ring your bell when you're about to take over another bicycle, or when closely passing pedestrians. This way nobody is surprised (jumpscared) and nobody gets in your way at the very last moment. It's for safety!
We don't have many zebra crossings, but where they are bicycles usually stop for pedestrians. However, there is also an unwritten rule that certain cyclists get the right of way: Old people, the mailman with his heavy load, and mothers with two kids and three grocery bags all on one bike.
The trick is to ask who was the last one coming in when you enter a waiting room
About the lines, you're spot on, it also works like that at the doctor, you just ask who was last in line (wie was de laatste? ) if you want to make it easy for yourself and you keep track of that last person, if that person is in the office you need to pay attention cause youre next and untill that time just enjoy time on your phone :D
Normally ringing with your bycycle bell has a certaint etiqette:)
Ringing one time: When someone is blocking the way (by accident) and you cant pass it or someone didnt hear you coming you ring one time : This is a polite Can i pass please
Ringing twice or a second time : hellooo did you hear me i need to pass? (slightly annoyed or worried)
Ringing 3 times or more equals i am going to collide if you don't MOVE TF OVER RIGHT NOW!!! (Really frustrated or worried)
Also when someone didnt see you in traffic and you almost hit him or it almost hit you you can ring your bell multiple times, 3 or more.
Ringing the bell continuously: Either a dangerous situation let someone know the cyclist is there, or a scolding of a traffic a-hole who almost hit the franctic bell ringing cyclist Or a group of school kids if there are many bells ringing :) .
:D
Usually dutch people move over ASAP with the first ringing of the bell. So only ring it if you absolutely need it :D
English is a second language for us so Dutch is just easier :D For English we need to think more about the english words :D
I love watching video's like yours because it is like a mirror. Its interesting to see which habits we have arent standard in other countries/ Sometimes you think well this is a normal international thing to do, but then it is a local thingy :D
We don t uses signals if we go slower.
Nobody drives slowy if you give a signal you want to drive slowy or to stop.
But if you go to the right or left , it s polite and a rule to use your arm before you make the move.
If there are a lot of people in the shop or somewhere else you can always ask who was the last one that came in and then you know you can go after them
With speaking English for the Dutch. While we're pretty good at it, it always takes more of an effort because we still think and formulate in Dutch and then we have to translate it. Because I'm a musician and regularly converse in English I started to force myself to think in English; that makes conversation so much easier especially with Brits who tend to revert a lot to dialect when they notice your English is pretty good.
In the Netherlands learning how to bike and what your place is in traffic is tought through school very early.
The rule of thumb is wherever you bike you keep to the right side as much as possible so people can pass on your left side.
If there is enough room you really, REALLY shouldn't use the bell. People won't just sway left for no appearant reason.
the second point kinda depends on the situation, i'd say your experience with that is fairly uncommon here in NL as well.
non-queueing waiting rooms *are* pretty common in professional settings, like if you go to the dentist or pharmacy or some government-related stuff you'll find these, but in anything that's marginally fast, and not appointment-based like a supermarket. These still just use queues. though there's possibly a more deliberate effort to "queue in parallel" where possible, so that no single queue is excessively long (it's not uncommon for movie theaters that get pretty busy to have, like, 10 automated ticketing machines, just so there's usually no more than 1-2 people waiting to buy a ticket, and supermarkets will often open a new register when 3-4 people are waiting in line)
usually in these "non-queueing" cases, however, you'll either be called by number, or based on an appointment (so they do actually know and tell you, at least in some form, whose turn it is)
As for the 3rd, ringing your bell isn't rude per se, but it's mostly intended to be used in a similar way to a car horn, so using it in the way you suggest is like honking your car horn every time you go to overtake someone, it's not necessary and might startle them.
on the other hand, it is "more subtle" than a car horn so you would use it when you notice people clearly aren't aware you're there, for instance if two people are cycling side-by-side, blocking most of the bike lane, they're slower than you are, and not moving over to let you pass, or someone's about to cross the road in front of you and looking away from you.
but yeah, it's not generally used "pre-emptively" much
The last one's true, but mainly because not being "pro-active" in traffic tends to lead to a lot of stalemates, where both people are trying to be polite to prevent a dangerous scenario from developing, yet that usually turns the situation more dangerous because you now get into this "jousting" game of who actually ends up going first, which risks you both choosing to go at the same time, this is especially true if you stop for people that are expecting you to continue.
Dutch traffic laws are defined fairly strictly, meaning there's almost always a "correct" order for people to go and stop (one exception is when, on an unmarked intersection, cars arrive on all 4 streets simultaneously and they all want to go straight, because then for all 4 of them the car coming from their right has right of way, but this kind of exception is pretty rare),
in many circumstances, without any signs or traffic signals, emergency vehicles have first priority, then public transit, then cars, then motorcycles, then cyclists, then pedestrians*, BUT the opposite is true for whose fault it is if mistakes are made (if any vehicle hits a pedestrian, it's the vehicle driver's fault almost by definition, for instance),
Within the same "priority", people on your right have right of way, and people going straight have right of way over people making turns, also if you're doing something "unexpected" like parking your car, driving in reverse, or making a U-turn, that makes you drop to the lowest "priority" and everyone else gets right of way over you.
* This is actually not a very consistent priority, a cyclist coming from the right of a car gets right of way, but a tram gets right of way over a car even if the tram is coming from the left and making a turn, a bus pulling out of a bus stop has right of way over cars, but only within cities, and of course an emergency vehicle is even allowed to ignore traffic lights if they deem it safe to do so.
as for the last point, and this might just be a programmer thing, but we actually speak english quite a bit at my workplace, even though we're all dutch natives, though i guess that might be a matter of how constantly switching between dutch and english is more annoying than just sticking to english ;)
Looking into little courtyards where the doors are open! This is a thing that's perfectly OK in Sweden. You might have an errand there or just be curious because it's pretty. If the doors are open, it's fine. If not allowed, the doors will be closed! In the Netherlands, nonono! "Having a look at a cute courtyard is snooping and a violation of privacy!"
Children, through school, get traffic certificates after a testride in some challenging area on their bikes. One of the teaching s is to ride by 'hearing' as well as seeing. At least in big cities. On your bike you use that extra sense.🤠
Very insightful Ava. You might add to the "don't ring the bell all the time" bit that this will not work in Amsterdam all the time. There are too many clueless tourists over there that a) are incapable to sense the bike (remember: this is a Dutch super power) and b) are in the wrong bloody lane anyway. Pedestrians do not go in the bike lane, they go on the footpath. That's why it is called a *foot* path. Or, if you must, a side *walk* .
But I really need to get two things off my chest concerning the apple pie story.
First: I never heard of the compulsory drink with food in a cafe. I would understand if a cafe asks you to order something if you use their facilities. It doesn't need to be a drink.
Second: From your explanation, I totally understand that you just tried to be nice to staff and meant no harm at all. However, at the moment itself I wouldn't have got any of that context. I only could have graded the situation by the combination of the statement of "I think that's okay" with the massive smile. I would have considered that as very demeaning to my team. You didn't mean to, but you basically told the staff they didn't knew what they were doing (by your statement) and that you doubted their abilities or even their sanity (by your massive smile).
If I had someone do that to anyone on my team, there would be *absolutely no reprimande* if that table ended up waiting for half an hour for a cup of tea and two slices of apple pie. I also would have returned the 'nothing is wrong' smile when this table eventually (and understandably) complained and insisted it was just an honest mistake.
I expect my team to be patient and courteous, but within reason. Therefore, there is absolutely, positively, not a single chance in a million years that I would have taken the guest's side here if my team chose to retaliate. You would have gotten my apologies for waiting a ridiculous amount of time, but that would be all. We also would have considered any form of tip 'blood money' and refused to accept it.
Having worked in several restaurants over the years I think the margins on drinks are the main reason why it is weird or rude not to order a drink. In the US, you compensate for that by tipping a lot, which is not common here. In the Netherlands restaurants have to pay the waiters a fair wage and it would not be very profitable if nobody ordered drinks.
I'm Dutch myself, I also experienced some of these things 😂 (I feel you)
About nr 2: if you enter a waiting room and there is no numbers machine, you only have to ask the ppl who are already there who was the last one entered. You don’t have to keep track of the rest, your turn is just after that person. Anyway, that’s just how I do it. When I come in, I say goodmorning/good afternoon and ask the question.
Apple pie and coffee usually go together as in almost all countries and there's absolutely nothing rude about just enjoying your apple pie!
Although, entering a place without ordering anything at all might be regarded as rude for the obvious reason!
Dutch people don't like waiting in general be it in line or not, it's conceived as a waste of time!
I don't know if it still exists, these devices to pull a number in some places, probably not, we hate waiting as it is 😂😂
Most accidents are caused by people hesitating or not making up their minds, so yes, go with the flow and continue to where you're heading and all will be reaching their destination safely!
Living for 13 years in São Paulo and it's pretty much the same here (except the car traffic 😯 It's in god's hands), I guess it's just matter of logic not even cultural !
Keep making these videos, you're good at it and it's nice to see how you perceive things from some different perspectives 👍
If i enter a waiting room, i sometimes ask `who was the last one?` But when it is busy at the market, i mostly leave, because there are always people who go first and i don`t like that. At the bus or train stop, everybody wants to go first, so don`t be upset.
As a Dutch but also Italian I always get in trouble/strange looks/comment about how I just cross the road so confidently (if you understand what I'm saying). My dad (Italian) taught me to do so because in Italy traffic doesn't actually stop unless you more or less just throw yourself in front of it. It just baffles me that you feel people do that here a lot more, while I always get comments that I shouldn't just cross the road without checking to see if the car is slowing down. Had a few close calls to be honest...
Interesting!
Ok couple of things there. Going with the flow as you put it, is made possible by a lot of non-verbal communication. Bikers and pedestrians alike will establish eye contact and use body language to indicate they've seen each other and will yield or expect the other person to yield.
This is also the reason why tourist sometimes get hit, as they didn't understand/follow the rules, or strayed into a bikelane by mistake.
The bell is used when you encounter someone ahead that is obstructing your path. So if 2 people cycle next to each other and there is not a lot of room to overtake them, you ring your bell in advance giving them time to react and clear the way for you. If there's enough space to continue unimpeded, there's no reason to ring it. We're taught that your place on the (bike) road is as far to the right as possible, and overtaking is done on the left. So in general people won't veer to the left.
Having a drink is part of the social construct 'gezellig' which is why a waiter would expect you to order a drink too. If you'd have said something like I'll just have a piece of apple pie please, he/she probably wouldn't have thought twice or perhaps asked you if you would like a drink with that. (This also increases revenue per guest)
As to why Dutch people like speaking Dutch? Well it is their native language, and you'll probably find that Germans, French, Spanish people etc. Will do the same. In fact the French are notoriously proud of their own language and culture. In general though most Dutch people will tend to think it is rude to speak a language that others in their company don't understand and only converse in Dutch to ask a quick question to a fellow Dutchie and then revert back to English. Since you speak Dutch, they won't feel any objection to speaking their own language. They'll likely expect you to indicate when you've failed to understand something and if you don't then simply assume you've understood.
I've lived in California myself and can relate to many of the examples you give from the American point of view. You sharing your experiences of Dutch culture and customs is quite refreshing.
'standing in line?'.... when you're in a situation like that, it's 'normal' to ask "who was last?" :-)
I never do that but rather just make sure anyone whos after me doesnt go before me, anyone that was there before me goes before me so when theyre all done im good to go either way, so just making sure noone that entered after you goes first should also work
That might just be more of a personal preference tho, as someone who doesnt like attracting attention to themself by asking ^^; but it works!
in most dutch cities kids learn at school the trafic rules for riding a bike . about the bell thingy...only use it when you go way faster than others and in front of you are 2 biking beside eachother . 9 out of 10 will they check and form a line so you may pass , the one rule everyone breaks , its not allowed riding your bikes beside eachother and have an conversation.