Catalina Island Baron Crash 8 Oct 2024
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My wife and I had reservations for 2 nights at Avalon for our anniversary a few weeks ago. We flew into Palm Springs the night before in order to fly to Catalina first thing in the morning the next day. You have to arrange for transportation from the airport to Avalon in advance as there are only a few services that will transport you between the airport and the town. The fog at Catalina and the weather to the island was terrible. We made the decision to rent a car to drive to Long Beach and take the ferry to the island. I never gave it a second thought about going to plan B but some of my aviation "friends" questioned my decision making. This terrible accident re-enforces that we need to make good decisions and not look back regardless what others think. Keep up the great work!
Live to fly another day…
Be safe.
My fiance and I had similar situation but ended up on Ferry at dusk with several hundred girl scouts...the sea turned into a MONSTER midway.....Helicoptered home...never been on a boat or ship since....traumatic. 😮
I flew there on Saturday and had already decided in my head that I wasn't going to land unless conditions were perfect.
Conveniently, conditions were perfect.
@@RoseSharon7777 I'm sorry helicopters became traumatic for you, though I'm unsure why, (haha, I kid)....
As someone that flies into Catalina on the regular basis I will tell you it’s dicey even during the day. However runway 4 is preferred to depart simply because it is downhill. Night time is suicide. Also the up and down drafts at each end are very significant because of the elevation Mesa type situation. It’s a significant drop off on both sides of about 700 feet. Bad news.
Ive always heard that place wasn't for beginners.
This is an over dramatization. This airport isn't that hard. I've been in and out of there hundreds of times. The problem in this accident was no ground lighting for visual reference and the pilot didn't switch to gauges for reference.
@@chuck_in_socal How can you possibly know that? Sounds like a very experienced pilot. Could have been mechanical problems.
Former local SoCal guy here I whole heartedly agree. I’ve always landed 22 there and always seemed to be in a 17RG. At night no bueno
@@chuck_in_socalthere is nothing overly dramatic here a simple stating of what happened with this accident no matter which way this guy took off the op was prohibited as per the airport info
Thanks. Local CA news had the facts in this case all screwed up, so it's nice to get the truth of the matter.
Local news reports on light aircraft incidents rarely bear any resemblance to reality. Decades ago I was an eyewitness to a crash at the airport where I learned to fly. Later, when the news was talking about the crash my first thought was "holy crap! There was another crash after I left??" They had every single thing except the name of the field wrong. Type of plane, number of occupants, injuries, phase of flight and what the plane hit.
That is typical for CA news!
Came here to say the same. They said it crashed trying to land after coming in from Santa Monica. They also said the plane was owned by a flight school. Clearly they had old info in both cases.
I'm not a pilot, I live in Northern England and work in a factory, but I appreciate your brilliant content and hope you make a huge contribution to aviation safety.
Me too!
Eyup!
Another brit here... albeit a ga pilot..... this is a place to go for flying knowledge. California is no different to some of our areas in the UK. Don't like the subject of fatalities but the learnings are universal
FELLOW BRIT. I live in the US and I would absolutely recommend trying to emigrate here
Very patient and thorough report. Thank, Juan.
Juan is a great reporter with his research and facts.
Sounds like they should have waited for the morning. Get thereitis, very tragic. RIP to the victims and condolences to families. Covered thoroughly as always Juan.
Back in 1966 I had just gotten my private ticket . I wanted to impress the young lady and suggested we fly to Santa Catalina Island from San Carlos California. She seemed excited about the idea. I started checking out my sectionals flight duration in assessment one50 etc. etc. etc. then I noticed on the note going into the airport at Santa Catalina Island, a note that said experienced pilots only. I went and talked to Mr. Vanvleet. My instructor about the experience pilots only business. He looked at me and he said "if you have to ask you or not" I decided not to go to Santa Catalina , for a few more years, it's a horrible, horrible accident and my condolences. Go out to the family and their friends.
Wise! And here you are today, able to share your experience. Hope you had many pleasant and fun flying experiences along the way.
I hope the young lady was impressed with your decision. If she wasn't, oh well. You are here to tell the story.
Flying always requires that you know your limits! I had a similar situation trying to land on Block Island (off Long Island NY). I tried 2 approaches and decided that the combination of crosswind off the ocean, a C-150, and my less than 150 hours meant that I would be taking my date back to home base. A pilot with more experience could have made the landing, but I was not ready.
On taking off from a foggy, unlit runway:
"I lined up on the runway as straight as I could using the only two runway centerline markers I could make out over the nose of the Seneca. There might have been a momentary hesitation in my hands before they shoved the throttles forward but soon I was speeding down the runway. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be. I could barely make out the edge of the runway and the centerline stripes came at me faster and faster. My feet danced on the rudder pedals as I fought to keep the plane going straight down the runway. If things started to get away from me I’d have to jam on the brakes quickly to avoid running off the side of the runway. But I had it. The centerline stripes were coming at me faster and faster, straight and true. As my speed increased I lifted the nose of the plane slightly prior to takeoff, but when I did that the nose blocked the few centerline stripes that were my only visual cues to keep going straight. I was speeding down the runway with my main wheels still firmly planted on the asphalt blind as a bat. Crap. I hadn’t thought of that. I was going too fast to stop so I locked onto the directional gyro compass and used that to hold my heading. An odd sense of calm came over me as I roared blindly down the runway. It was as if I just accepted the situation as unchangeable and could only do what I could do. Instead of trying to haul the plane off the ground early I let the speed build up normally and smoothly rotated into the air. I didn’t feel the plane hit any runway lights so I assumed I’d managed to keep the plane going straight enough for government work. When I saw the altimeter start to climb I raised the landing gear and let out the breath I’d apparently been holding. Dinner was excellent."
McCauley, Kerry. Ferry Pilot: Nine Lives Over the North Atlantic. (pp. 253-254). Kindle Edition.
Best comment so far. Likely what happened sadly.. Loss of situational awareness.
The drop off at the end of the runway seems like a nice little advantage to have if overloaded, but I think like the story above, there were other things that made the pilot unable to make use of it.
Reading that made me wonder. . . That scenario is definitely plausible.
PINC...Always learning something new on your Channel JB. Love it.
Second on that, jossy. I've been a pilot for many, many years but I learn something from almost every one of Juan's reports. PINC. Taking off from a closed airport ... not to even mention launching into IMC without a clearance. Reminds me so much of the Avjet crash at Aspen many years ago. The pilot intentionally began the approach _AFTER_ sunset when the approach was plainly labeled NA at night. NA means Not Authorized. So sad. I'm sure the pilot felt a lot of pressure, whether from others or himself, but how much pressure would the average sane person need to hold a gun to his head and pull the trigger? Not that much pressure in the world in my estimation.
I am based at F46 Rockwall Texas and it has the same issue. You can't see either end from other. Started my training June of 1979 at KADS and my instructor regularly made me do touch/go's and full stops at F46 day and night. I'm so grateful for such a wonderful flight instructor. His exceptional and wise instruction (for such a young CFII of 20) contributed to my 46+ years of safe flying. Thank you Mr. J. Renaud! (you can't teach good judgment, but you can exhibit it to your students)
I was waiting for your explanation of this case
I hope NTSB thoroughly checks the back story.
RIP to those lost.
I trained at John Wayne Airport and had to land at Catalina with a CFI to be allowed to initially rent the FBO aircraft. Since then I have landed and departed there numerous times. Take off with a Cessna 172 is short field, 10% flaps, lift off at VX but stay above the runway in ground effect and pull out the flaps and stabilize prior to departing the end of the runway. It can be tricky. Especially on a hot day. Many of the accidents through time have occurred there due to weight and balance problems and not following the short field procedure just explained. Pilots often depart local airports that are nearer MSL on a warm day on the edge of the weight and balance and depart from Catalina with a higher density altitude at 1,602 elevation on a typical hot day and drop off the end of the runaway when the ground effect disappears. I understand that this accident was a different scenario but even after the correct procedures I explained this pilot still would experience that sinking feeling when you depart ground effect on the west end of the runway. What was this experienced pilot thinking!!
a 3000 foot runway in a 172; Definitely NOT a "Short Field"
@@divingfe You are right but for this runway departing uphill it is treated like a Short Field
I treated it as a short field, even though it wasn't needed. Just added a little bit of safety buffer, and make my new to flying girlfriend a little less anxious.
But I was well below gross.
Operations are prohibited at night.That pretty much sums it up... Play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.Unfortunately , took four other souls
Self-cleaning oven. smh
No night ops is EXACTLY the same first thought that came to me.
(Even when you simulate flying it at night, one sees is way more challenging than expected. )
Who gets on as a passenger though? What's their thought process? Why?
Well... during the day (evening ) they have a fine restaurant and it attracts dozens of transit planes...... it is Pitch Black after dark... PITCH BLACK !
A lot of pilots tend to be "rules don't apply to me" types, and their friends are probably the same @@OMGWTFLOLSMH
Juan, I love that your channel, bottom line is about safety and respecting the plane and the regulations at each airport/landing strip. To the families of these passengers, condolences .
Too many of these events read like "if you can afford a plane, you have too much ego to be allowed to fly one". Obviously there are (many?) exceptions, but that is how it feels. And it's a hobby where only one bad day can kill you and your friends/family. Sad. 😢
It’s a very sad situation for every body involved! I wish there was a way to intervene when decisions like this are being made to go ! But
Instead we just have to hear about the accidents . Thanx Juan for the report !
The reference to Kobe Bryant is a good comparison. The problem was not loss of spatial orientation but rather the foolish decision to fly in poor conditions.
Flew in under VFR, and departed with no IFR clearance. I checked ZLA ERAM Automation and there was no flight plan filed.
in the dark, with no lighting on the runway or field.
Interesting that the iPhone crash alert feature made the initial alert. RIP
sad for the innocent passengers that had no clue
I’ve flown to Catalina many times (actually have flown the 172 in that AOPA video, N660SP). One thing is for sure, it’s a very tricky airport to fly in and out of. Since the restaurant at the airport closes at 4pm, it does seem likely that either they flew there and attempted to return or the pilot made prior arrangements to pick up passengers.
There is a shuttle that runs between the airport and the city of Avalon. Usually runs 5-6 times a day with the last departure from the airport at 5pm.
The scenario that first came to my mind was that the pilot was picking up the passengers. The time on the ground would suggest the pilot had no intention or plans to partake in any type of activity on the island. Five soles suggest to me it was the pilot and two couples.
I only have 18 landings/departures at AVX for the occasional Buffalo burger at the terminal or a day visit down to the marina. I missed the 1700 closure deadline ONCE. The four of us got a room.
And you are still alive. Funny how that works.
If everything was right with the world, there'd be a rule that aircraft crash debris NOT be removed from the vicinity around this runway. This runway is an accident magnet. It's pretty common to fly over here for a look around Avalon, lunch or dinner, drinks for the passengers, and fly back. I remember an outback Australia dirt strip that was a favorite recreational fly-in. Andamooka opal field. The aircraft debris was just left at the impact points. Added quite a bit of charm to the rustic, frontier ambience of the local.
ADS-B data was transmitted, for a flight taking off at night. It would be interesting to look back at logs, and find out if there was more than one flight doing this.
It’s a flight school aircraft, trends would be impossible to ascertain.
@@kmrtnsn I do not mean this particular aircraft, or indeed airport.
@kmrtnsn You didn’t even watch the video. It was NOT a flight school aircraft any longer. This was a private flight.
@@PTANV-x2gactually he owned the defunct flying school that was the previous owner I'll try and post a link
@@PTANV-x2gyeah it didn't post. Google his name and the flight school name
Assuming that was a BE-95-B55 as reported, it would have originally have been equipped with IO-470L engines, not IO-520’s.
It’s a scary runway during the day. Similar to a deck landing on an aircraft carrier
With 4 passengers, the airport rules say no night flying and the airport being closed, what else is there to suggest the pilot put off the trip until morning?"Got to get there" strikes again.
I wonder if the pilot has done this before?
Wow, the press really got this wrong, thank you for your factual account.
1) My guess, given the age, is this Baron was actually IO470 powered. 2) The pilot appears to have been a CFI and former owner of a flight school at SMO.
Not aviation related, but I was a chaperone on my son's school trip to the marine biology camp on the island, and at night, it's so dark. Even to walk from the cabins to the bathrooms, and they had outside lights on them. I can't imagine why anyone would think that they could fly out in that. It's an entire sea of black. We flew in and out of Long Beach and took the passenger ferry.
We took the ferry from long Beach to Catalina at dusk back in the 80s. It was loaded girl scouts. The sea turn horrible midway and it took hours to get there. Everyone was throwing up even the crew. I was barfing blood by the time we made it. I refused to take the ferry back so my fiance was forced to hire a helicopter to get us back. It was awesome! Got a tour of Queen Mary, Spruce Goose Dome, thousands of dolphins jumping out of water, shipyards, etc. Although I've never been on any kind of boat since in 40 years!!! It was that traumatic. 😮
my aunt,uncle owned a hotel in Avalon during 50ties,60ties--we would fly out of compton to this airport,my dad was ww 2 pilot--after 3 or 4 flights my dad said no more--we would take the white steamship after that--more fun for kids anyways-it was sketchy in perfect conditions --this guy reminds me of the guy who took off in snow storm in Id killing most of his family
Yes, it was similarly bad decision making.
Do you mean, the 50s and 60s or the fifties and sixties?
Curious, once you get your head around that there is a hump in the middle of the runway and that you’re aiming at a cliff on approach, Catalina is a fun destination. I’ve never flown there at night but during the day VFR, it no problem.
Short runway, heavy load, maybe the pilot figured he would level off and fly in ground effect to build up speed, not remembering the ground fell away right after the end of the runway? Hard to stay in ground effect when the ground drops off.
The 95-B55 uses the IO-470L, not the 520. Unrelated to the factors that led to the crash. I have over 1700 hours in 95-B55 TC-1908 N300AS all around SoCal, based at El Monte. I've operated out of AVX multiple times including IFR, but ALWAYS LIGHT. You are right about the runway length gradient and the illusions. My rule of thumb is that each 1% of uphill gradient buys you 6 knots of downwind takeoff. This flight broke laws and rules galore (needless to say).
Nice to have a feel for the impact of the gradient. I was thinking it is non-trivial, and 12+ knots is not trivial.
So almost immediately after becoming airborne, he began descending and then CFIT?
If it had been a successful flight would the pilot face any type of consequences for taking off when it wasn't allowed or would he have gotten away with it since no one was there?
The runway is higher in the middle, you can’t see one end from the other
And at night you can’t see anything beyond the landing lights…and if foggy you can’t see Jack 💩
My aunt was a pilot back in the 70s. She flew in once, and that was the end of that. Lol. She recalls the landing was something of a bouncing ball.
The current owner was my flight instructor. He owns Santa Monica Aviation so it looks like he took private ownership of the plane from his company. I hope he wasn't on board. He was a highly experienced pilot and instructor and was instrument rated. During our lessons his emphasis was always on safety. We flew to Catalina as part of my training and had bbq at the airport.
He was on board and was the PIC, unfortunately
@@N1120Ayikes. Hurryup itis
A full loaded, very old unknown engine power, condition, piston twin, on an upslope off a 3,000 ft runway at 2000 FT elevation, fog, full dark, pushed every common aviation decision beyond all reason. Basically bootlegging it against regulations which in this case had good reason to exist.
Only local TV channel 5 news had their facts wrong. Channel 2, 4, 11, and 7 reports was mostly correct.
I run out of fingers counting the mistakes this pilot made, and carried himself and his passengers to their deaths. The last mistake, not establishing and maintaining a positive rate of climb, but that might have been impossible given the load that Baron was trying to lift. Poor decision making all the way around. Tragic beyond words.
It will certainly be interesting to hear "the rest of the story" from the NTSB...
The other thing about KAVX is that the runway is "lensed" or convexly curved. It is substantially higher in the middle than at either end. When landing, you not only have to consider that very low glideslope but then the runway falls out from under you at 1500' along. When you are departing, the aircraft will want to get into ground effect at midpoint but most aircraft do not have Vro at that point.
Wow. I just hiked the Trans-Catalina Trail two weeks ago and stopped at this airport for lunch... you might get away with taking off to the east in the dark since it's just a big dropoff, but going west just makes zero sense.
RIP to everyone lost.
my guess is that the pilot ran into spatial disorientation and lost all visual ground conditions which caused him to crash the plane.
So frustrating and sad at the same time. Even if we forget the non-compliance with the airport ops (taking off after dark), the pilot left absolutely NO margin for error (or for something going wrong). Based on the flight track it sounds like it could be a loss of thrust in one engine - and combined with the at or near max gross - there was no climb performance. Or possibly just simply spatial disorientation. Regardless, as you say, horrific ADM. How do we convince pilots that it CAN happen to them?
As predicted. Let's check it out, analysis and all.
Thank you Juan, the media report's are very inaccurate.
Very big responcibility to be a pilot carrying passengers. My heart goes out to them all. Another tough object lesson for us all. Rules in aviation are in place for a reason.
Ernie Gann famously wrote that “fate is the hunter.” He could not have been more wrong. Arrogance is the hunter, stupidity is the hunter, presumptuousness is the hunter. Pilots sometimes stalk themselves right to their grave. The above is lifted from my “Moondog” book.
Thank you, keep working.
Rules are made for a reason, ignore them at your own risk!
My heart goes out to those experiencing this tragic loss!
Wow 5 people on an old travelair
in those conditions
Taking off at Catalina is like an aircraft carrier and there’s a natural downdraft at the end of the runway. Normally the airport closes at sunset.
OMG - all i keep thinking is the Swiss Cheese effect Juan always talks about, this sounds like a classic mistake, perhaps decision making was under pressure to be else where
i am a big fan of Juan and would suggest all training pilots must watch this channel to get a greater insight to these all too freaquent accidents, some are unavoidable but a lot are avoidable when taking in circumstances, conditions etc, do the maths folks, if in any doubt, don't bloody fly, fog kind of gives me the creeps unless i was instrument rated
Swiss cheese? Seriously? This is borderline homicidal. Pilots' estate beware!!!
Sad to hear this news this morning. Just passed my adx exam yesterday, I've had to study the weather here in SoCal. The marine layer likes to stick around well into midday and rolls in quickly in the evening this time of year. Rip to those onboard.
I wonder if they just wanted to skimp on the landing fees... I've heard from locals that it seems to be almost common practice for some pilots to fly in and out before / after hours in an attempt to evade the fee.
Never flew into AVX, but am very familiar since we spend quite a bit of time on the island. I was so surprised to hear this happened at night. I remember to talking to my flight instructor years ago while training at SNA about AVX and he said, you gotta be real careful there even in perfect conditions. Why would you even attempt this?
I was a passenger on multiple flights to Catalina.
Runway looks scary from the air because it is short and has steep drop offs on either end.
It's a pain to land there during hot summer days because you have to fight the plane down against the updrafts.
Speaking to a a friend familiar, the owner of the well regarded Proteus flight school/hangar operation was apparently also on board and killed in the crash.
This probably doesn't have anything to do with this incident. I do not fly, but have had a lifelong love for aircraft. Years ago a friend of mine and some of his friends flew from somewhere on Michigan's mainland to Beaver Island for a weekend of fishing. He had gone on this trip several times before and knew people on the island. When it came time to go back to the place on the mainland of Michigan where they had departed from, the weather had become bad. My friend told me that he and his fishing friends were in a bar at Beaver Island airport waiting for their plane to come in. While they were there they were talking with a woman, the wife of a doctor, who owned recreational property on the island. She told them that she would never fly to or from the island, but always went by boat. But, because of the weather, the boat wasn't running. She told my friends group that her husband, who was a pilot, had insisted and forced her to have him pick her up by airplane; she was terrified. Eventually the airplane arrived to pick up my friends. But, the bartender, who my friend had known over the years, said, "DO NOT GET ON THAT PLANE!" They were dumbfounded, as he had been a friend. They said, "The plane got here, it doesn't have far to go to get us back to where it came from." Again, the bartender said, "DO NOT GET ON THAT PLANE!" He upset them so much, they didn't get on the plane. A while later the doctor arrived, as I recall it was in a Beechcraft Bonanza. Boyd, my friend, watched as the doctor forced her to board the plane, while she was crying all the time. They set in the bar with their beer and watched as the doctor took off and crashed a few seconds later, neither survived. He told me he spent the rest of his life thanking that bartender.
As I remember, that airport is nothing to be played with. Memory again, but was't the first pilot of the X-2 or was it the 3 killed going into Catalina in a GA aircraft- back in the day? Thanks Juan.
You're thinking of Bill Bridgeman, who as a test pilot for Douglas Aircraft flew the D-558-II "Skyrocket" to Mach 1.88 and 79,494 feet (both records) in 1951.
@@Mikey300 Research says Bridgeman was flying a Grumman Goose amphibian. His body was not found. They flew from Long Beach to the isthmus and, I believe, to Avalon. They stopped flying in about 2000. I have a photo of my sons in our Boston Whaler with the Grumman landing in the background.
A set of sad circumstances all round
We've flown into Avalon Airport a few times. As Juan says, it is very much a carrier landing. They pretty much leveled off the top of a hill and painted a strip onto it. There is no emergency landing around the airport, it's all hills, tight canyons, cliffs and ocean. No handy golf courses or the like. The town of Avalon is a thirty minute taxi or bus ride down a very windy/hilly narrow road. There are no private cars on Catalina. So once the Taxi drops you off at the airport you are stuck. You have to call for transport from Avalon at that time of night. We used to arrange for a taxi to be at the airport to coincide with us taking off from Van Nuyes (our base airport). When we were there 20 years ago Avalon was an amazing destination off the coast of LA/Long beach but flying into it was white knuckle all the way. I'm sorry but the pilot was an idiot.
And yes, I've seen people fly off the end of 22 downwards and disappear from view only to appear on the 'upwind' leg parallel to the runway from behind the next hill over. They were idiots too. We used to watch the fresh food DC3 land there as well when it was flying. It used to take almost the whole runway just to deliver the seafood and salad to Avalon. My flying days are behind me but I still fly into the simulated Avalon on MSFS. It never occurred to me to try and do it at night in the fog with a fully loaded aircraft.
Something our Damphero might not even attempt.
Regardless of whether it was ADM or PINC, the price was pretty damn steep.
Why? Good analysis, Juan.
It’s an upslope on 24 but not mentioned is a “hump” about halfway down. Numerous aircraft have had accidents initiating a go-around after touch down mistakenly thinking they were about to run out of runway. Likewise, a TO at night with only minimal distance illuminated with landing lights, the hump can cause a pilot to attempt an early rotation before the airplane is ready to fly. I’ll wager that’s what happened here and when ground effect ran out, down was his only option. And that’s even a tough option VFR in daylight.
Juan, from what you said it would appear this pilot had the qualifications. However, even accomplish pallets can sometimes poor decisions.
RIP to those who perished and condolences to their families.
I look forward to your update
Thanks Juan
I’ve been to that airstrip before. As noted it’s dicey in daylight. 😢
Power loss on #2 might give the same ADSB track
Sunset on these souls... They enjoyed one last sunset before taking off to the sky... RIP
"I've done zero/zero take-offs before. No problem". Until it is. So freakin stupid.
Based on the departure altitudes, over gross and once out of ground effect they just descended? It will be interesting to see what the FAA/NTSB determine.
When you take off to the west you cant see over the hump in the middle, there was a famous jet crash there; they thought the runway was to short so they aborted, reached the crest and saw it was longer, applied full power but then realized they then didn't have enough room, aborted again but too late, fell off the end of the runway....I have landed there a few times.
I think it was a Lear, and it was a long time ago.
Sounds like they landed after the airport was closes at 5:00pm local time
There used to be a crashed King Air at that end of the runway for the longest time. He didn't have any swiss cheese just a big hole! Suicide.
1. I look forward to the formal report.
2. How is it possible to do weight and balance at a closed airfield in the dark?
I'm not sure I understand your question about weight and balance. W&B calculations are just a bunch of arithmetic. You know your passengers' weights, where you're going to seat them, and how much fuel you have. You also know the empty weight and center of gravity (or moment) of the aircraft. The rest is just pencil and paper work, well, iPad work these days.
5 people in a Barron? If they were big, I’d guess they were near W&B limits.
As an American, I can say they were big.
Very sad report mate ,condolences to all the families hopefully the truth will come out,safe flights mate,🙏🙏🙏👋👍🇦🇺
A S/W departure you are just looking an ocean (no lights), but also the terrain is also uninhabited. You said a Baron is the largest a/c you would take to Catalina, but a DC-3 usually lands twice daily, very fun to watch both. A great restaurant for a burger.
Most don’t like being called a Mr. PINC.
just the lousy tippers
Plane owned by someone in Valley that owns a flight school out of Santa Monica. This Flight from that flight school with 3 instructors and 2 students.
Night would have commenced at 724 pm local. They departed 40 minutes after that. This makes absolutely zero sense. The winds still supported a runway 4 departure, as it was a sub 8 knot tailwind, if NUC was reflective of AVX.
One bad decision……RIP
I know it’s a small portion of flights and safer than driving overall, but this is one reason why I don’t like fly in in GA aircraft, unless I know the pilot and preferably state of the aircraft as well. Seen too many junker aircraft and don’t want my pilot to end up being a cowboy or make decisions like this.
I'm to the point where i could never fly in one of these little planes because I'd be second guessing every decision the pilot made and he'd ask me to please step off the plane so he could take off in peace.
Lately it's been foggy all of SOCAL and even in Tijuana. My mom's flight from Guadalajara had to divert to Hermosillo due to fog. All subsequent flights were canceled or turned around. Additionally, my friends non stop flight from London to SAN diverted to LAX due to fog as well. The fog didn't burn off until the following morning.
RULES - We Don't Need No Stinking Rules. Arrogance will eventually kick your own ass.
Yep, boomer mentality.
@@MattyEngland Troll response it ever. BOOM!
I was a right seat passenger decades ago. We landed in daylight. It's like landing on an aircraft carrier ! We went to the resturant and had buffalo burgerrs for lunch then headed back to El Monte airport. You need to be on your game to usee that airstrip.
What the heck were they thinking? Dan Gryder is not going to like the added victims to the tally . . . No body will
I don’t understand how they could fly into terrain. You should be able to tell when you’re climbing just by looking at the altimeter right?
Yep. 3000 ft runway. like JB says, its like landing on a carrier (without arresting cables of course)..🤪
Sans LSO too.
Maverick "call the ball"
The upslope on landing shortens the landing roll considerably. In calm wind, it functionally acts as an 8 knot headwind.
No mention of a post crash fire?
Is there still a transient acft landing fee?
Insanity.
Never flew to Catalina, but been there, by boat, many times. The airport is in interior of the island. Roads, outside of Avalon, are sketchy. 15mph is the fastest I'd go. It'll will take at least a half hour to get to town (Avalon). A restaurant, on a Tuesday ? Accommodations this time of year should be okay. Lobster divers taking all the rooms ? Not likely. At night they'd be on a boat, or jumping off of one, at their favorite dive sites.
I don't know why the airport has an Avalon address. Two possibilities: (1) That's where the mail is sent, or (2) some crazy Gerrymandering.
28 Sept KFFA fatal x5. N1281F. Why no word on that crash?