Croatian Really IS a Logical Language, But Why I Stopped Trying
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I can speak languages - French, German, and Russian with relative fluency in years gone by - and my Croatian (with a terrible accent) is good enough for television interviews. Unlike many foreigners, I find Croatian to be a very logical language with few exceptions. But it is the first language I stopped trying to learn - for a totally different reason.
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Why didn't you try to learn literary Croatian? Everyone understands when you speak literary Croatian. English also has a million dialects, but literary English is understood by everyone as well.
He explained everything in his video.
@@marioz2312 he said nothing about that actually.
There is 0 possibility of learning a dialect in a school, so since he learned the dialect, he didn't do it in a school. And if you're not being thought by an actual teacher, you'll gonna learn wrong. It's the same with everything you learn.
@Andrea Holi He explained everything - he lives in Jelsa. That is the only place where he could learn Croatian, because he lives there. He could learn only dialect not official school language...
@@marioz2312 Kaj nemaju škole na Jelsi? 😁
@@LucaAnamaria Kaj da ide s djecom u 1. razred?
I’m Croatian and I agree - even I gave up.
Literally every part of croatia has their own language. The most difficult one, of course, is MEĐIMURSKI, from MEĐIMURJE.
Nobody alive understands what those people are saying… some say you have to be at a certain level of alcohol posioning to understand them.
Yes I agree. I always found Medjimurski to be so much easier to understand afte a litre of Gemist. Cheers Paul
Hahahaha my mother is from medimurje and i can understand a lot of it but i cant speak it. Same goes for my father who is from bosnia😂👌🏻
It’s interesting because we in medjimurje can understand slovenians pretty good, and they can also understand us. The ones that live along the border at least.
Then you should hear Labinjonski from Labin in Istria. We have our own grammar our own translator to croatian and it is only town in Istria with such a distinctive accent and dialect so where ever we go in Istria and when we start talking they recognize from where we are. It is not čakavica nor štokavica but cakavica. But being exposed to such a variety of languages/dialects give us ability to adapt and learn faster other languages.
@@Andre-py9ry I've heard two guys from Buzet talking? It's the oddest thing I've ever heard in my life. I literally couldn't understand a word they were saying.
With all due respect Paul, these are the kind of difficulties which every Croatian is facing whenever he/she travels. You stand the same chance of understanding somebody else's vocabulary as the rest of us. I don't think it should have discouraged you. When Croatians don't understand each other, they simply ask does the word mean.
There are times when i dont understand my grandparents. (One side Kajkavian, other Shtokavian)
You have to learn the Štokavian (Štokavski) dialect. It is the original (literary) Croatian language spoken in continental Croatia, especially in Slavonia.
Yes, Slavonians speak the clearest Croatian in my experience
štokavski is not the original one, it is a literaly language. Its not really good to say thats its original because it was decided by linguists that štokavski is going to be the base of Croatian. i mean the beauty of croatian is the dialects and when we decided to separate from yugoslavia it was urrgent to decide which dialect should be the standard one
@@mary_r_eyes The Štokavian dialect is the basis of the Croatian language, on which other dialects arose. I would say that it is the purest Croatian language and Paul Bradbury himself noticed. If I tried to teach a foreigner the Croatian language, I would most likely bring him to a place where Štokavian is spoken, because we are too small country where every corner has its own language.
@@PaulBradbury As a Slavonian, I sometimes have a hard time understanding Croats from other parts of the country, so you are not alone haha
@@kim__jong__un yes
For several years, I vacationed in Jelsa with my wife and children, and I witnessed the strangest early morning conversation:
P1: Eee
P2: Ee?
P1: Aaaa
P2: Eaa
P1: Aaaa
P2: Aa?
P1: Aaeee
P2: E
And then they parted ways.
After that, for years we went to Komiža on Vis and now mostly to Murter. The same thing happens all the time, the whole conversation using two letters.
Haha, vrh. And sometimes the conversations get really intense. Meet the shortest and most common conversation in Dalmatia, also filmed in Jelsa th-cam.com/video/dJip5NwKHDw/w-d-xo.html
There's one better from Međimurje:
P1: Ju je je?
P2: Je ju je.
hahahahahahahahaha točno u sridu!
as a croatian, this is a tottaly normal conversation
I heard one from Split, with only 5 vowels:
- E!
- O!
- I?
- A...
- U...
as a native Croat i must say if you learn like book Croatian, everybody will understand u and not just in Croatia, but also in Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro...
If you ever hear a person from Međimurje speak, u will understand the meaning of the word dialect, cuz some people say that is an entirely different language (and trust me it is). Its the same like comming to Germany and learning the word Kartoffel (potato) and then come to Austria where they say Eardapfel for the same thing.
And not just those countries, but other countries like Slovenia, Macedonia, and Kosovo since they were taught Serbo-Croatian when they were part of Yugoslavia - but I would guess that older people speak it better than the youth.
We can round it up to say 18 million - which means you can get by in the ex-Yugo countries.
In Međimurje we say kalamper or krumper for potato, in standard Croatian it's krumpir, for rain we say dežč, in standard Croatian it means kiša.
@@KaiserWilhelmReal
"In standard Croatian, it's kiša."*
🤓 Apologies for the correction.
@@KaiserWilhelmReal Seems like you kept the original Slavic word for rain (dážď in my native Slovak, deszcz in Polish, déšť in Czech, etc.).
I love languages and as a Polyglot I wanted to learn Croatian for a really long time, after years of diligent study and living in Zagreb I met a group of local guys that I started to hang out with regularly, and let me tell you, their slang language is almost entirely different language XD, some call it Šatrovački, they invert all common words and break them in half and also have different names/words for every little thing in their culture, so their slang was one of the strongest I came across and most difficult as it was truly like learning another language with different set of rules, the dictionaries out there really don't do justice on how many synonyms this language actually has.
Agree - that is another universe entirely.
Kuiš spiku buraz 😄
Mojne da čašpri! Greetings from Belgrade.
I'm from Zagreb and Šatrovački no one speaks for real, it is only for fun. I'm sure English has that kind of thing. It is just inverted language, where you take a real word and invert the syllables.
Šatrovački is basically the same as verlan in french
The richness of dialect in Croatian language is incredible. I'm part Dalmatian part Zagorec, educated in Zagreb. I came across at least 10 different dialects. It can literally differ from place to place, like you said. And when you speak Croatian you can hear the subtle difference. I live in a place of 4000 people, town next to us already speaks differently.
Yes it is fascinating for such a small country
@@PaulBradbury
Geography is the main reason why we have so many dialects and accents. Of course different influences play a big part(hungarian, turkish, german, italian, slavic) so at times it seems pretty hectic :)
But as someone already said, stokavski would be a way to go.
znaš da postoje i nalazišta pračovjeka,neandertalaca,i u Dalmaciji na nekoliko lokaliteta ali oskudjevaju sa ljudskim ostacima,dakle vrlo malo kostiju na spram svjetski poznatog Hušnjakovog brda i Vindije.
znaš što to znači?
Da su zagorci već tada imali vikendice na moru!
Example word NOW ( croatian SAD) in North Croatia: ZÉ - ZAJ - VE - VEZDA. From ZE to VEZDA is only 10 km distance. In every village it is diferent word, that is just nuts.
@@PaulBradbury if you know CRO history ( harsh terain, poor infrastructer, many wars and divisions of land) it make more sense
Volio bih vas čuti kako govorite Hrvatski. Vrlo ste simpatičan čovjek. Pozdrav iz Zagreba!
Be careful what you wish for. It is not a pleasant experience for Croatian language purists.
@@PaulBradbury Samo budale zamjeraju strancu ako ne govori perfektno jezik. Bio sam 40 godina u Njemačkoj i znam o čemu govorim. Ja govorim uz Hrvatski još Polski, Njemački i Engleski. Nije perfektno, ali bitno je da se komunicira.Srdačan pozdrav!
@@PaulBradbury Purists are overly political people, just avoid them as a type of personality you'd usually dislike lol, because that's actually more that than about actual truth about the language. Purist would scold even a professor of Croatian before he'd found out the person was actually a professor of Croatian. True story. 😂
@@zoom7533jeste li ikada bili ismijavani ili krivo gledani za vrijeme obitovanja u njemackoj kada biste pricali njemacki koji vam naravno ne moze biti savrsen i "tecan" pri pocetku ili su ljudi bili strpljivi i razumni
@@gabz3872 Hvala na pitanju. Ne mogu se sjetiti da se ikad netko smijao, niti me je netko izpravljao u gramatici. Naravno, ako ste nekoga pitali za neku riječ, dobili ste potrebnu informaciju. Ja poznajem naš mentalitet, mi smo skloni nekog ismijavati, i ponižavati ga. Razlika u kulturi, iako moram reći, da današnja generacija Njemaca pod utjecajem medija nije više na nekadašnjoj razini. Pozdrav!
Every language has dialects. When you start learning one officially (in an institution that can give you some kind of diploma), you learn the oficial language. The oficial language is known by all of the people no matter what dialect they are speaking.
But when you start learning a language at home, with people around you, it's a common logic you will learn their dialect because that's what they're using among themselves.
It's not about dialect itself, it's about the richness of the words that Croatian contains.
you dont know shit dude english dialects as a non native i understand them all, german no problem if its a bavarian or a northern german or an austrian or a swiss... croatian dialects are so diverse and different even serbia and bosnia have many but croatia takes the no 1 spog
Well you wouldn't learn English in Yorkshire, would you?
haha, you nailed it. to be fair, Hvar is a place you must have visited.
Man, you got a warped view of our language - islands are very specific, it's like learning English in Ireland, or South Africa, or Hawaii, and being intimidated by many differences from standard British English. These differences can be frustrating, yes, but they're not a reason to stop learning English. Most islanders adapt their speech when talking to Croatians who aren't from their island, and if you can master the neutral TV croatian, you should be able to get around just fine. I think you should reconsider your decision, because speaking with everyone in a country without any trouble is a pretty unreachable and useless goal, and deciding not to put effort in your language learning because of that is just good old perfectionism. As a native speaker of Croatian I can't speak with Istrians, most islanders, and people from Međimurje without them adjusting their accent.
haha, it does get easier on the mainland, but you said it yourself - I can't speak with Istrians, most islanders, and people from Međimurje without them adjusting their accent. Imagine moving to an island and not knowing that was what you were learning.
Nemojte odustati od učenja hrvatskog. Trebate otići i boraviti u Slavoniji i onda ćete sve lako naučiti kako treba
I do find the Croatian in Slavonia to be the easiest to understand, but that could be thanks to the rakija...
There is a specific dialect of Croatian that is actually protected by UNESCO as a world heritage and is spoken only in and around Bednja in Zagorje. This is the famous Bednjanski govor. This is not understood by anyone xD There's actually a clip on TH-cam where a woman is speaking and you have captions written in literal Croatian at the botton so one understands what she's saying. Croatian is beautiful because of these differences ❤️
Yes, you can learn more about it in this TCN article www.total-croatia-news.com/varazdin-county-in-focus/17422-exploring-croatian-cultural-heritage-bednja-language-dialect-in-varazdin-county
Ozujsko Pivo, the beer brand launched a TV ad during a handball or football event, a couple of years ago: this ad involved someone from Bednja talking merrily away in a pub...the other folks could only look at each other in bewilderment. PS If you think Croatia is challenging for its diversity of dialects, try Slovenia, ha!
Of all the places one could try to learn Croatian, this poor dude landed in Hvar 😅 It's almost like a different language there
My whole family is from Split, but my mom had complications during pregnancy so she had to go and stay in a hospital in Zagreb. She always tells me stories about how she had to learn all kinds of new words for objects and stuff
Haha, true story, but then I feel I got a little lucky when I hear some of the dialects on the other islands.
@@PaulBradbury Spot on. I'm from Split and I can remember once talking to a guy from island of Vis. I had to fully concentrate on each word he spoke to try to understand him. Vis dialect is one of the toughest to get any grip on. And then you have Zagora accent with so many words of turkish origin that you start to wonder if you are in Croatia at all. Not to mention Zagorje and Slavonija. Germanic origins in their words is more then obvious. On the other hand Istra is full of Italian words just like Dalmatia allbeit to a slighty lesser degree. It basically tells the story of this region that was always some sort of a border between different cultures at the time.
could be worse though (Bednja)
I think if you move house in Croatia for more than 50 kilometers you are bound to have to learn a bunch of new words. And possibly get made fun of in the process.
@@maiskaj6333 You don't even need to go that far. On Hvar, there are 8 dialect words for chisel.
Just learn the so called "književni hrvatski" the one that is spoken on national TV and radio. Everyone will understand you then.
I was born in Zagreb but I have difficulties understand all those different dialects and there are way too many of them. Heck, in Zagorje two neighboring villages can't understand each other! It's a mess. 😂
Yes, and I have (mostly), but doesn't really help listening to conversations in Zagorje or on Vis...
Oh please, why would he learn a language that only people in Zagreb use? If he learns Dalmatian he is good to go :D
@@MarinaArtDesign He already told you himself why not. Because of dialects. Do you even know how many different dialects you have in Dalmatia alone? Oh and by the way we in Zagreb do not speak like they speak on national TV even though the main TV station is in Zagreb, we too have our own dialect. The fact is everywhere in Croatia people understand književni hrvatski, regardless of their local dialect and that's why it is the best thing for foreigners to learn it. I just don't understand why you "Blitvari" always have some problem with Zagreb? You always act like all of your problems stems from ZG. WTF!?
@@MarinaArtDesign they use standard Croatian in Zagreb, really? :D
Standard Croatian vidjet ćeš - što ćeš jesti?
Split vidićeš - šta ćeš ist?
Zagreb vidla buš - kaj buš jela? (together with vidićeš - šta/kaj ćeš jest?)
@@matekapovic81unfortunately the dialect in Zagreb is slowly dying due to all the immigration.
Man you just need to learn the standard croatian language. The one they will teach you in every class you take in Croatia, i m sure. And then you ll be able to get along even on Hvar i assure you 😁
Completely understandable. As an ESL teacher, I imagine that, if I started to learn English in my late 20s or now in my early 30s (compared to when I really started to learn it, which was at the age of 4 or 5 through Cartoon Network), after moving to England, I'd be floored by the differences between cockney, brummie and other English dialects. Don't feel too bad, many Croatians don't understand each other's dialects as soon as they leave their respective villages or regions, but we make fun of it and get by somehow 😅 In my experience, the most common problem non-native Croatian speakers have is learning the 7 noun-cases (padeži). I was somehow expecting you to mention them, but since you speak Russian and German, I suppose you're familiar enough with them.
Yes I cried in Russia ove the padezi, so was ready in Croatia
Case is what native English speakers find most frustrating about Slavic languages. No such thing in English.
You shouldn't give up on Croatian Language. Don't try to learn every dialect in Croatia because there is so many for such a small Country. Some words are different in dialects but it is easy to explained each "new" word. Good Luck! You are doing very well.
Haha thanks, I am trying - here I am on Podcast Inkubator last night in Croatian
SAT is not "time" but HOUR (...or wristwatch, or clock)
Nemojte odustati 👍🏻
haha, ok
@@PaulBradbury just learn standard Croatian. Everyone understands štokavski.
I felt more or less the same with Slovenian, with 2 million inhabitants and more than 50 different dialects, it can be a nightmare to understand people, but at least by speaking standard Slovenian, you're understood everywhere. I don't fint it as difficult in Croatia, but I think it's mainly because I don't go often to the islands and I stay mainly in bigger cities, which makes standard Croatian mostly enough to understand and be understood. But it's true I had also few occasions not to have a clue what I'm being told!
Haha, I am sure my experience would have been different if I had started in somewhere like Zagreb.
From my experience whenever I travel to Ljubljana, if I use serbo croatian everyone will understand me and either respond in serbo croatian or in slovenian
You should learn "official" Croatian language that everybody knows but nobody speaks, and than expand it with local dialect words when needed.
Its almoat the same as Serbian, while local dialects have Italian, German or Turkish versions of words depending on the area.
But, let's face it, who speaks književni hr? I have to focus and do my best to nail the right pronunciation (I'm 'Istrijan' and I've attended Gymnasium in HR ) let's face it : Serbians/Bosnians sounds much closer to književni HR , and they even don't have to try it! Please no political issues, I'm just talking about languages and phonetics, as I've studied it in university, thank you
If you are Serbian you must know official Serbian. You can use dialect only in private conversation, but not in public, or you will be ridiculed as uneducated. If yоu travel from one part of Serbia to another you must spoke official language. Only accent from dialect is acceptable but words are not. Serbians from Bosnia and Montenegro use ijekavian variant because Serbian offically have two varianats, ekavian and ijekavinan and they use them, but not dialect. Only official Serbian is used in public speech or if you travel.
@@nakkiewildvangst2656 yes it is true that Serbian dialect variants are lot more homogenus than Croatian to the point that most of the Serbian dialects are closer to "Official" Croatian language than most Croats speaks.
U Sloveniji sela znaju biti udaljena tek par-sto metara, doslovno
I svako ima svoj dijalekt (!)
Great video and I totally understand you. But I think it's a shame you gave up on it precisely because of what you experienced - the cultural and historical richness of the language. In my opinion, it's one of the finest treasures we have.
To be fair, it is a lot easier on the mainland
Dear Paul,
Little correction:sat meaning watch, time is to be said vrijeme.
Hatts of for your job
Yes thank you. I always record in one take and knew as soon as I said it that I should have said watch. Thanks for pointing it out.
@@PaulBradbury Actually, you were not wrong. True, "sat" can mean "watch", but it can also mean "hour/o'clock", as in "za sat vremena" (in an hour) or "jedan sat je" (it's one o'clock), AND it can mean "time" as is "kolko je sati?" (what time is it?).
@@7349yt not said that "sat" is used also as unit of time, maybe there could be some confusion. Sorry
Learn štokavian (the basis for the standardised Croatian language) and you'll be understood in the whole country
I'm Brit living in Slovenia, and I struggle with Slovene. At least Croatians say their numbers the right way round and don't use dual form.
Oh we have the dual here too. I first came across it learning Russian 30 years ago, but still haven't mastered it.
Mmh, that does not seem a rational decision to me. There is a standard Croatian, used in the media and understood all over the country, irrespective of dialects. You simply have to learn that. Dialects that are quite different from the standard language probably exist in all languages. You know German. I am a German living in Switzerland. I can sing a song about it, as a German saying goes (ich kann ein Lied davon singen) :-) But although I had a hard time and it took me a few months to understand Swiss-German (or to be precise Berne German) dialect, even in Switzerland the German-speakers all understand standard German, and are able to speak it if necessary. I know Croatia and Croatian a little bit, and I'd say it is the same over there.
Pure Kajkavian and pure Chakavian would be totally different language but stokavian influence was just too strong.
Interesting video.
I agree that spelling is much more logical than in English, but I wouldn't say that there is only a few exceptions regarding the grammar rules in general. It's FULL of exceptions and complex rules. My fiancé is a linguist from Slovakia (who also speaks fluent Czech, Bulgarian and English) and she finds Croatian to be very very difficult.
Also, how come you didn't learn the standard Croatian? No matter where a Croat is from - they ditch the dialect and speak in standard Cro when needed.
From my personal experience, I have found it very logical with few exceptions, but I defer to you fiance's greater experience. Not sure I agree that everyone switches to standard Cro, especially on the islands.
@@PaulBradbury You might be right about the very tiny communities (with very very old and isolated people) not wanting to switch easily... But I really doubt there is any Croat alive who doesn't understand the standard - which is what is used in ALL the schools, in business, all of the media, etc.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that while not everyone knows the Dalmatian word "štipunica" - everyone will know what a "štipaljka" is. You tried to use a local dialect with someone outside its sphere, but if it was the other way around and you said "štipaljka" in Split - you'd be understood immediately.
For reference, I speak only the standard Croatian and my whole family is Dalmatian (including islands); and we converse absolutely normally with each other. I never encountered anyone in my whole life who didn't understand me.
I agree, the amount of exceptions and stupid random rules is huge, even when just talking about one aspect, for example declinations. I remember when we learned grammar in highschool there were more exceptions than rules that we had to learn.
@@Reulon
Islanders and native Dalmatians are special kind. They nor want nor like to speak in standard. Like Cataláns so to say.
@@josipag2185 I know, yeah. But my point is that they CAN. My whole family is from Sinj and Split. We communicate in standard just fine, even if they don’t speak it amongst themselves when there is no need.
I learned to speak Serbian and everybody in the Balkans understands me.
lol
Der Wunschtraum aller Serben "govori bre srbski, da te ceo svet razume"! Das ich nicht lache. Diese eingebildeten, vom Osmanischen Reich, auf der Balkanhalbinsel vergessenen Sklaven, bilden sich tatsächlich immer noch ein, sie würden "verstanden" werden, nur weil der kultivierte Europäer sich zu fein dafür ist, sich mit ihnen näher abzugeben.
lol
The pipe dream of all Serbs "govori bre srbski, da te ceo svet razume"! That I don't laugh. In fact, these conceited slaves, forgotten by the Ottoman Empire on the Balkan Peninsula, still imagine that they are "understood" simply because the cultured European is too fine to deal with them more closely.
In small cities and villages, it is normal to speak in dialect, but the people there will understand you if you speak literary Croatian. The Dalmatian dialect has some similarities with the Istrian dialect, we say also 'miljar' for one thousand :)))
Čuo sam ljude da kažu milja za tisuću ili hiljadu, ali mi je to čudno. Milja mi djeluje kao skraćeno od milijun.
@@unwokeneuropean3590 Vjerojatno od talijanskog mille za tisuću
We talk main croatian language only when we meet people from other regions in Croatia. In every part of Croatia people speak differently with it's own dialect.
2:43 the way he said it
And now I've learned a new 'Croatian' word (štipunica) FYI : we on the west coast of Istria call it ŠČAPIN
haha, SO many dialect words
The language is actually called Serbo-Croatian, and it is spoken in several countries ( Bosnia, Croatia, Montenegro and Serbia). Each country has a main dialect and many regional ones. Incorrectly these dialects are now being labeled as separate languages ( mainly because of political reasons). Can you imagine someone deciding to call English spoken in Australia - Australian or the one spoken in US - American? Basically that is what happened to Serbo-Croatian language. Had you persisted and continued to learn the language, you would be able to understand people from all the mentioned countries and to some extent from Macedonia and Bulgaria.
And Slovenia
@@MathTravels Yes, Slovenia, too. I didn't forget about it, but I have always thought that Slovenian is slightly more different compared to mentioned dialects
Another Yugoslav spreading lies.
Both Croatian and Serbian existed long before "Serbo-Croatian" was artificially created along the process of the creation of Yugoslavia. Language called "Serbo-Croatian" existed only during 20th century, not before and not after. It was politics that created it, not the other way around. And you're also one of those that pull the English variants example as relevant for this case.
How come no one claims there's Bulgarodian or Macegarian? Or Slovakoczechian? Only you Yugoslav fossiles still rant about "SerboCroatian". It's been dead for 30 years (though it never truly lived). Get over it.
If you learn Croatian, You will know Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin because they are all the same language! Slavic langauges are logical, since they follow "Write as you speak, Read as it is written" rule.
I am saying this as a Croat/Serb!
Yes, as I explained in the video
Sat is actually clock and vrijeme is time.
I think only Italy has a similar situation with an infinity of dialects and a commonly spoken language that is used by all in order to be able to navigate this mess.
Haha, you could be right. I have enough trouble with Croatian dialects to explore other languages.
Grandma not knowing what a štipunica is and calling it a štipaljka a moment after is dissapointing to say the least. Because she knew what štipunica is, I know she did. She was just trying to see if you really got it. Sve najbolje Britanac legenda si!!!
The problem is the way they usually teach Croatian in textbooks and language courses for foreigners - it's always just the stuck up formal standard. No colloquial language. And that's not the way people actually speak. Of course, if you land on an island, you have one more language to learn - the local Čakavian dialect :)
Btw. as somebody said below - "štipunica" will not be understood outside of Split (or some parts of Dalmatia), but "štipaljka" and "kvačica" will mostly be understood everywhere. But this is a "house word" that people don't really use much in public. In other cases, people from Zagreb will know a lot of Split words and vice-versa. Or if they don't, they will switch to some kind of standard dialect.
Ne znam odakle si, ali to je jezik kojim sam oduvijek pričao. Iz okolice sam Bjelovara. Nikada nisam koristio čudne dijalekte. Pričam na isti način kao i Saša Kopljar u Dnevniku.
Why is a problem that they teach people standard dialect? I'm not from area that uses standard dialect at home but it's great base for traveling across the country.
Visited Croatia last year. In my 42 years, I have never experienced so many unfriendly people. Two weeks I will never get back in my life.
Then I read somewhere that in the last 15 years somewhere around 500 000 croats have moved abroad looking for better life. Country of a population of 3,5 mill.
Thats true, i feel you. Im from Slavonia, studied in Rijeka and had a lot of friends from Istria. First month I didnt understand them at all 😄 also my cousins from Zadar, they are speaking Dalmatian and sometimes I need to ask them to tell the word on "real Croatian".
But thats also one of the things why Croatia is so unique!
Greetings and dont stop learning :)
“Sat” is watch or clock it’s depend what you saying in sentence. “time” is vrijeme and/or vremena
But the way you can counter dialect is by looking at core of the word, because words have logical naming. Now this wont work fully not even to a good degree, but the more you see the connections it can get easier
But why did you go on learning German? Have you never been in Austria? We have nine federal states with different dialects and there are word which are only used in specific areas and will not be understood by someone from somewhere else.
We Kajkavian CRO learn Croatian from dialectes to standard one all our life.
But you shoul'd learn standard one.
I am not a native Serbian or Croatian speaker, but I will tell you this. If you think Croatian is easier to read than Serbian, you are in for a surprise. yes Serbian is written in the cyrillic script, but Serbians literally have the saying "Write as you speak, read as it is written" or, "Piši kao što govoriš, čitaj kako je napisano". The only thing you need to do is learn the cyrillic script, which I managed in about an hour of learning so the obsticle really isn't as big as you'd imagine.
Da Srbi I engleski pišu kako govore to sam puno puta vidio ...potpuno krivo Al eto
I don't really see a good reason to give up here, to be honest. You could just focus on learning standard Croatian online or with a teacher if you have access to it. It seems your wife is Croatian and you could ask her to teach you the standard. Naturally, you might pick up some local dialectal features and end up inserting them into your standard Croatian, but I think Croats are probably quite used to that (they possibly do so themselves) and you could just clarify what you meant (you could try using different synonyms or looking up the standard term). I have read that standard literary Croatian has some words that are quite different from colloquial varieties, but it's not like they're completely different languages and any language has synonyms. Those two words for clothes peg that you mentioned seem to have a common base, just slightly different suffixation or endings.
The dialectal differences are like how some English speakers say "boot" while others call that part of the car a "trunk". Even if you may only use one term, you understand the other through exposure. And as far as I know, British dialects are even more varied.
Those dialects should be quite similar to each other (at least ones in the same region). When communicating with people in nearby localities, even if they speak somewhat differently, the dialect you learned where you live could possibly be quite understandable to them. And then you can use the standard for talking with people from places further away with overly different dialects. And it's not like the standard is completely different from the dialects (they should at the very least have fundamental similarities).
I do find it easier on the mainland
LOL, you learned Croatian from Frenki! :) I've not seen that man for 20 years, will stop by and say hi when I visit Hvar. A beautiful human being!
Haha. Yes Frenki is a beautiful human but the worst Croatian speaker ever.
@@PaulBradbury definitely! Even I understand only about a half he says. And usually the wrong half. 😊
Ten years with a Croatian wife. But the challenge for me has been vocabulary. In Zagreb I understand many words with a German root, and as a Muslim many words with an Arabic root. But being almost 50 the first time I came here it was more difficult to learn Slavic vocabulary for the first time.
Then added complexity has been declensions, cases, grammatical gender, etc.
The mistake here seems to be learning dialect first as opposed to standard croatian but i suppose its cool to have both
Yes but I didn't know that at the time, as I went straight to Hvar. Things are easier to understand on the mainland.
@@PaulBradbury ye i mean i dont speak croatian fluently but my impression is that in serbia montenegro and croatia every body understands the standard so thatd be what youd go for. But it must be cool to have a dialect on that island
When people ask me how do I know English very well, I reply with: "It's a logical language!". Native Croat here. :)
Sure it wasn't easy but I soaked up the words as a toddler watching Cartoon Network and just learned it as a daily routine, school didn't teach me much English as TV, internet and meeting native English speakers and talking with them.
About the Croatian language it's 100 percent true. I can travel 20 kilometers away from my place in some village and be in a position that I can't understand the locals.
Yes, TV, Cartoon Network and TH-cam have played a big role, as does gaming now
Just learn formal croatian, pretty much everyone in croatia understands it.
Sat is clock, time is vrijeme
Da Ali mi pitamo koliko je sati? A ne koliko je vrijeme.
@@Poreckylife za koje vrijeme? Koliko vremena? U koje vrijeme
@@Poreckylife pitamo i koliko je vrijeme takoder.
As a Croatian woman I say "Razumljivo" (understandable). 😁
haha
Thank you for sharing this. I learnt German in about 4-5 years just by living there and it was good enough to teach children to read in German. I have now lived in Croatia for 7 years and I still can’t hold a decent conversation. I’m starting to wonder what’s wrong with me.
a little gemist or rakija works wonders, I find
What a great video, thank you! 😊😊 Totally understandeable! All this is similar in some other countries BUT the difference with Croatia is that it is such a small country that u drive 10min away and poof a different dialect ... so its all blended Especially dalmatian and istrian part so many dialects 😊😊🍀🦋 continental part is thankfully much different, there can be some words not the same but us in the continental part dont really have "i have no idea what youre saying" moments 😅 or rarely
Haha thanks
Yeah this video just makes sense - even here there are just some dialect words even professors stick with and might not correct you when saying it because it probably also slips their minds.
It reminds me of the time I ( A Dalmatian ) went to Zagreb to take care of some business and when I went to the supermarket to buy some pasta and asked the lady working there where they keep their "Manistra" she was as confused as the businessman you talked to.
Haha, glad it is not just me.
I have this EXACT problem with Croatian lol. (I dont wosh to give up though). I work in a tech company in Ireland, almost all my peers are from every corner of the world. And over the years, I grew to appreciate all the idiosyncratic ways people speak English as they understand how to self-translate.
I've had the softest spot for Croatians, I like how direct and blunt they can be which is refreshing as Irish people tend to be relentlessly polite. I became curious about the language, and as my partner is Croatian with parents that do not speak any English, if I'm ever gonna talk to them it'll have to be in Hrvatski. They're from Benkovac and i need to get used to that dialect.
I was fond of the story of how well your daughter could spell Croatian from the sounds of the words. I am a HUGE fan of the fact that all the letters have the same pronunciation in the words they build. It reminds me of Spanish in that way, especially as there's few double consonants and vowels. English is wonderful to speak and eloquently creative but the word pronunciation conventions are so frustrating even in my 30s.
For as varied and challenging Croatian can be, I've found it easier to grasp than Irish after spending 12 years trying to learn it. Our dialect differences are about as crazy as theirs lol.
Well that's not really a reason to stop learning Croatian hahah nobody said you have to know or understand all the dialects. If you learn standard Croatian, however, everyone will be able to understand you, as everyone knows it and can use standard words to talk to you. It's just that people privately like to talk in their own dialects, just like anyone else. Consider it like Classical Arabic, every Arabic speaking country teaches it in schools, they use it in official documents, however, every Arabic country has it's own version of Arabic as well, which they use in their day to day life. They can talk to other Arab speakers by using Classical Arabic, just how you can use Standard Croatian. It's a really simple concept.
Edit:
And the same can be applied to German, which you said you learned. Go to Berlin and then go to Swabia.... drastically different dialects that use different words as well, it's not just the accent. Or Swiss German, Austrian German.... hell, it goes for pretty much any country. That's what you do when you learn a language, you learn their official standard variant of it.
Yes, standard is a little easier
I fact you were learning the most original form of Croatian language by speaking in the island dialect. I'm from the island of Pag, and we speak similar dialect as people from Hvar.
True. Chakavian/Chokavian/Cakavian, is the only true Croatian only languge. Shtokavian came due to Ottomans from Bosnia, and consider to be Bosnian dialect, Jakov Mikalja described that.
@@josipag2185 hahahahahaa, gluposti. ne postoji "originalno" narječje, sva tri su se razvila u isto vrijeme u ranom srednjovjekovlju. i štokavski nije iz Bosne...
@@luigimini2124
Hahahhaha, ne. Nisam niti rekla originalni, nego ekskluzivni hrvatski. A stokavski je bosanski, ima dosta izvora. Jakov Mikalja, npr. Cakavski se nekad pricao sve do Kupe i u dijelu Bosne. Ali, samo otvori par stranica najstarijih hrvatskih rjecnika da vidis kako je dosao stokavski. Doslono, turskim prodorima, a u Dubrovniku (inace latinskom gradu, koji je iskopao srebro iz rudnika u Bosni i Srbiji i otomanskom savezniku) se smatrao, najljepsim bosanskim dialektom. Uostalom, cakavski je najarhaicniji i ima dosta istrazivanja od struke na tu temu, a ne narodnih bajki u isto vrijeme, lol. I jedni je ekskluzivno hrvatski (ne dalmatinski, s obzirom da je lingua franca bio doslovno dalmatinski, latinski jezik, koji je nestao u 19.st) , s obzirom da se kajkavski de facto smatra slicniji slovenskom, a neki dijalekt stokavskog pricaju osim Hrvata, Srbi, Crnogrorci i Bosanci. Sve je to jako dobro dokumentirano, i zapisano.
@@josipag2185 ovoliko gluposti do sada nisam nigdje pročitao. Hrvatski ima 3 dijalekta ča-kaj-što i svi su jednako hrvatski.
@@croatianwarmaster7872
Only croatian I wrote only, as if not in common with others, as 100% croatian, that is very distinguish, not only one croatian. Croatia has all there ofc, but like I explained, and you have science behind my words, Kaikavian is more close to Slovenian, and Stokavian is well, common for Montenegrins, Serbs, Bosniaks.. and came from Bosnia after all. Not even original croatian, who the hell knows, Croats were warriot small tribe probably iraninas that spoke who knows what before mixing with other populations. Are you illterate? Both of you. Chakavian, the only one that is not in common with Serbs or Slovenes (as linguistics consider Kaikavian very very close to Slovenian, much more then to Croatian, or any Stokavian). As linguistics consider Kaikavian estremely close to Slovenian. And well, Stokavian forms are more similar between each othert then to Kaikavian and Chakavian. I as a native Chakavian speaker, can understand and even find some similarities between Kaikavian and Chakavian. Not much, and if I see them in writings. And Stokavian came from Bosnia, many of the authors explained and described how, in the 15th and 16th century. Even Dubrovnik was first Chakavian. That is why there is no commun literature with Serbia, and one of the reasons why Dubrovnik is today croatian.
I am from Slavonski Brod and the word for a peg is kvačica 😂 However, in a conversation about clothes, where I have an idea of the context etc I would absolutely understand štipunica even though I have never heard of this word until now. The problem is when you take a word out of the context or the is no context whatsoever. If you just told me to guess what štipunica means without any mention of laundry, chances are I would not know exactly but I would be able to guess it is something that can pinch things.
Yes, but then Hvar has 8 dialect words for chisel. It is exhausting. Not that I talk about chisels much.
znaš li što je pjat? sa čime bi poitovjetio riječ u našim kontinentalnim dijalektima da ju prvi puta čuješ? naši dijalekti jesu nacionalno blago,kao i narodne nošnje,folklor,ali dođi u Bednju ili Komižu i trebati će ti Dr Ladan da ti prevede(da je živ...)
Yee i can see it but look If you learn štokavski dialect you are prolly good to go for about 90% of language becouse it is an offical school and goverment dialect ofc there are many variatons of 3 main ones (ćakavski,kajkavski and štokavski) but i dont thats a good reason to give up on it
"Mijori" is used on islands, on coastal Dalmatia is "ijade", "tisuća" is in dictionary
Which other islands is mijori used? Several people i spoke to on brac had never heard of it, for example
@@PaulBradbury parts of Hvar ,and whole Vis
I agree, I'm from Bosnia and every 200 to 300 km we talk more, and I know how it is in Dalmatia, I completely understand you. Learn Bosnian, because then Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins will also understand you. The difference is small.
znaci pricaj bosanski da te ceo svet razume 😂
Seriously, this kind of thing happens in many countries. Maybe all countries. Regional variations are common. I come from county Durham. I bet it wouldn't take me long to say something in English that Paul Bradbury didn't understand.
If you are from Durham you would be absolutely right
Yes, but if you learn the standard Croatian you can easily communicate pretty much everywhere in the country as well as surrounding countries like Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia. Most people tend to understand the standard even if they don't necessarily speak it.
But in Croatia, we do have one standard language spoken, understood by every Croatian (Bosnian, Montenegrian and Serbian also, even though they are not the same languages). It's called Croatian literary language and all the official stuff is written in it. You can hear it on TV, in schools, read in newspaper, books... Using dialect on official basis is considered incorrect. Don't all languages have dialects?
From my perspective, you have chosen the wrong place to start learning a new language, where you got in touch with people that speak a local dialect which happens to be quite different from literary language (or some dialect close to it at least). It would be the same if I started learning English in some northern Scotland village where even people from other parts of UK barely understand what's been said. It's great to enrich your vocabulary and to get to know the complete culture of some country/nation, but first you have to learn (official) basic things. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks our language is phonetically perfect... Phonetical consistency is one of the best features in south slavic languages.
Yes it is much easier now on the mainland. I personally think that while all countries have dialects, it is a lot more intense in Croatia. Just a personal opinion.
Actually, most languages have mostly phonetic spelling systems. The only language other than English that I can think of with a seemingly very illogical spelling system is French. Russian spelling is also a bit illogical with all the ways "o" is pronounced among other things, but it's mostly consistent from what I know.
I completly agree
Plus some words just don't make sense
LAW means ZAKON in croatian, but ZAKON also means COOL in croatian
GRASS means TRAVA in croatian, but TRAVA also means WEED in croatian
Those words are slang. And it makes sense because it is just as joke.
I'm 42, borne and raised in Croatia in area around Zagreb; year and half ago, I started to work in Rijeka and i learn new words daily and it's frustrating at moments.😀 So, I can only imagine how it must feel for a brit 😄😁
haha
im croatian and i agree that croatian is very hard
In my part of Slavonija in Coratia you would say (Kopca) for that laundry thing
In Italy people speak in dialect also, like there is no perfect fiorentino from 13th century. England, the same thing. Spain, also, in many regions. In Catalunya, you have aranes, català and castellano, in Menorca you have dialect! Only France did that crazy centralism thing, that is abnormal situation. But, it is like, if Bosnian guys came all the time in Croatia and can manage, sure could you. That said, any variant of Chakavian dialect is nice, it is my dialect, and it could serve you to if you later want to learn, I don't know veneto or italian also.
P.S.
Stipunica vs. Stipaljka - not a bit difference, but I bet tiramola is the same. And you get two italian verbs also- tirare and molare, and a verb molat in Chakavian.
That's why we have standard Croatian. When you come to Germany, you don't try learning Middelnedderdüüsch at first, but Hochdeutsch.
The video is interesting but I face-palmed a lot.
Here's a fun way to break google translate. English word "lucky" translated to Croatian is "sretan", but "sretan" translated to English is "happy".
Haha Paul, after learning Hvar dialect you decided to change the environment and went to Varaždin - a former Kajkavski capital: :'))
Haha. We must meet and do a language series on this channel together. With the Professor of course.
@@PaulBradbury we sure do, that's going to be like a world cup finale
Štipunica/Štipaljka, we in Zagreb and the rest of northern area would say "Kvačica" and so far I thought it was an official word, but I'm not sure...
My grandfather was from Gorski Kotar in Croatia from a place called Prezid. When he would speak in his dialect it was impossible to tell what he was saying. The dialect is a mix of Croatian ikavica on a čajkavski dialect with mixed words from both Slovenian and Italian. Mind you, I came from a household with mixed dialects - my dad and his family were from the Zadar region, while mum's side, on grandma's side was from Zagorje, and still grandad's dialect was nothing I've ever heard.
haha, thanks for your comment
Greetings from Croatia! Well the easiest dialect would be the Štokavski dialect, it's the easiest to understand.
to je narječje a ne dijalekt. gramatiku mu je napisao fra Bartol Kašić i tiskao u Rimu 1604god
@@zagrepcanin82 Ok
Dont't give up!
Haha. This time next year Rodney
Every Croatian has that problem, much less non-Croatian. I'm Croatian from Herzegovina, married in Dalmatia, ask me how I fared when I firsr met my husband 🤣
As a Croat, even for us it's hard to understand other dialects of our own language sometimes. For example for me it's completely normal to say "katriga" for chair(sjedalica), but my friend had no idea what I was talking about 😆
I was surprised at how many differences there were speaking Croatian in Montenegro. Words such as punica, ajme meni and the king of words, uhljeb, were not understood by the locals I was talking to
Well TBH in Hvar every town or vilige has a diferente dijalect. So i cant blame you im from Hvasr Hvar Krizna Luka
My Croatian is really Bad but when I hear people from my moms Region (slavonia) speak I understand them perfectly and clearly, then if I speak with people on the coast I get confused haha
I'm from Istria and I know 4 different words for SOCKS all in 20-30 km radius from where I live
A sock polyglot. Awesome!
Točno. Fonetički jezik, jedan glas (zvuk)- jedan znak.
Za razliku od npr. njemačkog, u kojem zvuk "č", četiri znaka treba: tsch.
Što se tiče dijalekata, to ste u pravu, može se desiti da idete 30 km do drugog mjesta i da čujete potpuno druge izraze. Svi krajevi Hrvatske su puni toga, a u Dalmaciji ćete naći mješavinu našega jezika, italijanskog, turskog i nešto malo arapskog. U riječima dijalekta. Otočani su još simpatičniji, oni su razvili mjestimice svoj način komunikacije. 😍
True about the islanders
I was expecting something hard from the grammar like continuous verb pairs or some difficult verb tense, but this... yeah, dialects are often tough to the Croatians as well, so don't feel too bad about having difficulties with them. I live near Zagreb and sometimes have trouble understanding people from Međimurje or Dalmatia. Cheers 👋
A litre of gemist always helps in Medjimurje I find
As a Croat, I am surprised at how many comments there are about him giving up on the language and are trying to persuade him to keep going. To me, this video seemed to be more about how in Croatia there is not a single dialect that you can learn and use it almost everywhere. Even as a Croat when I went to high school from Zagreb to Zabok (which is located in zagorje), I was confused for a month whenever I spoke to someone there beacouse of the dialect barrier. What made it worse was that the kids going to that school were also from different little towns around the area, with their own dialects. So I think with this video Mr: Paul wanted to more express how you can never truly learn all of Croatian. As every other town has its slang and sayings that if you drove an hour away from that place people would not understand. And the point of the video is not actually that he full on stopped learning new croatian words. More that he accepted that he will never truly learn that magical Croatian that every Croat will understand. Which is hundred percent fine as we Croats mostly talk with our hands, feet, food and wine. In the end I wrote all this yet I do not know the man so i could be completely wrong.
As long as there is bevanda and gemist we will be fine
Vrboska i Jelsa najljepše mjesto za odmor. Pozdrav iz Osijek!
Yes I agree. Perfection.
You could do without the background music, sir. I like listening to your voice and what you have to say. Greetings from a fellow expat.
ok thanks for the feedback
I'm from Istra and i speak "čakavaski" and Someone from Zagreb May Not understand me
Stuff like this has always just endeared me more to a language. My degree is German and Russian and the (relative) uniformity of Russian compared with German, Swiss German, Austrian German and even the accents and dialects just inside of Germany is immense but all part of the fun!
It certainly isnt dull...
Yes because local dialects are influenced by italian, german or turkish language. So in Dalmatia you have italian influence, in Zagreb German and turkish words are all over CRO lango.
also Hungarian in Slavonia.
The most fascinating thing about this video is the fact there was an apartment in Zagreb for 50 000 euros
Not zagreb but on hvar, back in 2003
great lesson, thank you!- i sent this video to my love in california
Haha, lots more coming if u want to subscribe
Ahhh. Croatia... What a wonderful country... Land of the ancient Kara Ulah or Mauro-Vlahi from the 12th century and later, after the 16th century, they were known as Isto-Romanians. Good Wallachian shepherds with one of the most delicious cheeses of Raguza and Sandzak. Now the people and language are almost extinct.
As a Romanian I can understand Croatian and Serbian because of the Russian-Turkish influence and the inheritance of the old Traco-Irilic words
A bit more on Istro-Romanian here www.total-croatia-news.com/lifestyle/66007-istro-romanian-language
@@PaulBradbury Thank you for the link!
I'm Croatian(half Zagreb half island Pag), you are funny man and you laughed me so well. Cheers 😇
Pag and Zagreb, a great combination
Sat is hour or clock depends on the context, vrijeme is time.
"sat" isn't "time" ...it is a "watch"