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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- Tier list for all buildings and unique buildings in CIvilization IV explained. Opinions may vary based on experience. I play on immortal and deity difficulty and rank the buildings relative to those levels, for pangaea/fractal maps.
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Cuirassiers EXPLAINED
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Engineering Rush EXPLAINED
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Can we get one Immortal game solely based on wonderwhoring? I would love to see Ramesses gaming with Obelisk and Stonehenge abuse and settled prophets with Angor Wat to make on overpowered production capital.
Hah you been peaking at my plans for tomorrows upload??? Louis XIV wonderwhore is coming.
Good deal. Needed this tier list. I always waste too much time building wonders and not units
same..
Statue of Zeus was such an S tier wonder in Civ3. I don't know why they murdered it in this game.
It’s nice to know more about some of the wonders I rarely encounter, though they are mostly B and below anyways
I like the comprehensive look at the wonders. That is, if a wonder is fantastic, but it is nearly impossible to build yourself, it really doesn't have any use, that is you can't build a stategy around it.
Apostolic Palace is quite fun on middle difficulties (noble - monarch) if you have a 1 tile island with 2-3 water resources. It allows you to build the Moai Statues in a reasonable time and just have a silly 1 tile city for no reason at all. There is one strategic reason to build it. If you have a religion no other civ has, this gives you hammers and prevents all other civs from getting hammers. It is a little thing, but can make a difference. However, to play that, it is best to have a Spiritual civ that can last minute swap to your solo religion for a few turns and then back to other religions before everyone attacks you for being in the wrong religion.
I would agrue Stonehenge is overrated. As someone who still enjoys playing at prince difficulty to be a wonder whore, the 2 wonders I never build are Stonehenge and Shwaydagon Paya. I would list them as hands down the 2 worst wonders in the game. For me, Stonehenge in C tier is vastly overrated. I won't fault a C- rating, for fail gold. Perhaps that is what Stonehenge is. If you are building it, it is just for fun (which I will argue is a valid reason as games are meant to have fun). However, once you get some experience in the game it just has no real use except to amuse yourself.
but don't the free monuments when you settle cities count for something since the borders expand much earlier?
Some henge is alright.
Situational.
If you start with mysticism, early religion, a settled great priest gives +1 gold per city your religion is in.
Good list. Only change I would make is moving The Sistine Chapel up behind The Colossus.
It comes on good tech path for Cuirassier rush. Plays well on Pangea with culture war and the border pops on conquered cities is awesome.
Granted, much better to take it off neighbor but very powerful in mounted warfare.
I think on lib cuirassier rush you are only getting 10-20 turns of effect out of it before your neighbor gets bulldozered anyway, so at that point I would prefer the failgold, and not have to make the temples or monasteries. I think this wonder holds more value for slower paced immortal games, especially NTT ones.
The specialists getting culture is the strong part, not the buildings in warfare. All those large pop cities starving can get 100 culture in no time. Building are great too in the core cities. Definitely not priority to build, but I seen you capture it a few time and it helped out big time getting new cities online and holding them.
But yeah, you’re right and you nailed all the top wonders.
Thanks for all the civ content. You make the videos pretty interesting.
@@henrik9658 i value that particular wonder for my very dedicated peacemongering strategy, where i try to get such good relations with all my neighbors that i know they've reached a point where theyre hard coded not to plot war on me.
at that point, i love the chapel for pushing my borders into theirs and even flipping cities.
it fits well with my silly strategy that is nowhere near as good as someone better at the game, so i personally love it.
but yeah, ive seen you warmonger, i know it is better to expand that way a lot of the time. generally speaking, it would be better to have the gold for research or funding armies. i'm distracted by the shiny effect of pushing my borders into people while they can't touch me. its my weakness.
I think that the tier matters purely on the difficulty level, civ chosen, gsme scenario & rules, and map. Any of those category can vastly shift the grades.
Thanks for this wonder tier list. It's going to be very helpful for me. Now I will check out your Deity 61 as suggested for your Colossus strategy. You got me interested :)
This was a long time coming, glad you finally made it!
yes! will look into doing more!
Keep up the Awesome content Henrik, love all your civ stuff. My game has definitely taken a nice leap watching you. 🍻
Great video mate! hope the algorithm gods will look upon you
haven't watched tear list for civ 4 wonders before
Really helpful and support as always😊
Excellent guide. Personally I love building Temple of Artemis in one of my cities with shrine, because it doubles gold output. I found this out by accident.
@@penwithoutasword9459
A coastal city, combined with great lighthouse, the trade guild from Artemis is awesome
Great Library: S++ tier - Always usefull, amazing synergies (Music beeline, Military Tradition beeline, Philosophical trait, National Epic, Representation), cheap, and you can trade off the tech when you are done building it, cause the AI are usually slow getting to litterature, makes the GP creation for Lib race so much easier/faster. Cant say enough good things about it, except maybe its so good it becomes boring always going for it. Of course, in early rush games, getting your horse archers or elephants up faster is still better.
It’s good. I wouldn’t say S+ but maybe A+. The benefit scales with how early you get it and doubles with pyramids. If you can pull off the pyramids, great engineer, Great Library at 300 Bc move, then you have unleashed a monster. If you have to chop 4 forests with no marble and no pyramids at 1 AD, it’s just ok.
@@stt5v2002 What would be the use of a great engineer at that time? I cant think of a single strategy, that relies on procuring an early great engineer.
Great Library is a bit of a win-more wonder, Pyras/GLH can literally save your entire start if you have the opportunity to build
@@SHDK-vq1rxThe pyramids give great engineer points. So if you build them early, there is a chance that your first great person will be an engineer. If that is the case, you can use the engineer to instantly build the great library. That would give you both a very early great library and the representation bonus to the free scientists. That is an S tier great library. Contrast to a great library that comes 400 years later without the representation bonus. .
Waiting for the Pyramids to finish and then waiting for the Great Engineer means the Great Library will be long gone. I dont think Ive ever seen anyone do that. Great Library is so cheap, prechopping will finish it almost instantly anyway.
awesome video! The video we were waiting for so long
Could you do a general buildings tier list? That would really interesting and helpful
yes, probably the next tier list video I do!
Not sure if you have one in your archive already but would be cool to see a Mids game with more of a specialist economy approach in the early game. Curious how effective that is on IMM+
A future Lincoln isolation game should cover this
I do like three gorges dam. In the later game you often have many cities and unhealthiness becomes a big problem. Question - what happens if you build a coal plant and then the dam? Do you still keep the unhealthy penalty from the coal plant?
Let me go test really quick! I'll edit this with an answer soon.
EDIT: No, when I built the coal plant I had +4 unhealthiness from power, and then when I built the Three Gorges Dam that penalty went down to +2 from power. I then removed the coal plant entirely in world edit and it stayed +2.
Thanks for the wonders talk!
A couple of wonders in D tier are map setting dependent. I always play Huge Lakes + Full of resources with raging barbs (had to mod the barbs to they actually inhibit AI expansion instead of giving them free cities).
The Versailles becomes the best wonder the game. This is because you're planning on playing Corporations (mining inc and cereal mills) instead of state prop. The Versailles is so important that I save a GP for it (the tech trades well, wait until Vers is more than half-done).
You start building the Vers in highest production city (with forests saved for the purpose of chopping them into it) near your capitol, while moving your palace to where your forbidden palace would have went.
The Forbidden palace is placed such that your Palace, Vers + Forbidden Palace form an equilateral triangle roughly 30 tiles apart (in side length of the triangle).
LIkewise on a Continents or Big an Small Map with Islands, the Vers goes where you original palace was, forbidden palace built on the same landmass, and the palace itself is moved to the largest island you settle.
For the Chichen Itza, with raging barbs Oracle + CoL is quite common, and makes non-protective or non-aggressive leaders able to expand without having to station 6 unit garrisons against barbs hitting like mack trucks. I get it often as Philosophical in the raging barb games because I'm trying to spam GPs for Shrine, Theology and Divine Right and settling priests with Wat.
Bear in mind I mod barb to be 35% stronger vs the player (the player can't fight them in the open field), so with regular barbs stats, the Chichen itza isn't good, even on raging barbs. Modded barbs though, Chichen Itza helps. I also disable the great wall affect (replaced with +5 experience for units an free walls in every city), since the great wall ruins raging barbs.
Now for Statue of Zeus, again I mod the game so that AI's suffer the same WW as the player, which is the only change I make to the AI in kMod, coupled with the barbs hitting the Ai's for 10% (ensuring the Ai's also can't fight them in the field).
Stonehenge isn't just about the monuments, it's about the fastest GP. On Raging barbs you can't just expand like crazy. So I sit tight making stonehenge, because there's almost no one way to chop forests with raging barbs trucking the player with +35% combat modifier!
It's amazing how all these bad wonders become great when you have to garrison every workable tile on huge map + ragings barbs.
really helpful thanks Henrik
thank you :)
Learned a lot!
Make one for normal buildings as well.
Leaving a comment to support the channel!
Hey! Was browsing for an answer to a question I had regarding "Obsolete Wonders", is it when YOU as player discover the new technology or any of the players/AI currently in game that a wonder goes obsolete? Some answers say it's when you research the new tech and some answers are when any player/AI researches the tech, and I'm confused :)
In regards to obsoleting wonders, it's always when the OWNER of the wonder researches the respective tech that obsoletes it. So, if someone built the apostolic palace, it's going to be in effect until that civ researches mass media. Or, if you built the great lighthouse, you can get the most out of it by avoiding corporations. The other civs' techs will have no effect on your wonders.
@@henrik9658 Thank you sir!
By the way, I noticed that if your development goes good at the beginning at the god AI attacks you fast any advice on how to not get attacked at the beginning?
its nothing to do with your development, just a simple double dice roll.
1st dice roll? "plot or chill" (0.5-4% to plot / turn, based on conditions & personality)
2nd dice roll? "so who shall we kill?" -> spin a wheel. pieces of the pie get bigger for people closer & more annoyed with, smaller for more happier with/farther away
I suggest first of all downloading and installing BUG mod (linked in description) so you can SEE if they start plotting, that will save you having to tediously spam open the trade screen to check if they have enough on their hands or not,
Then if you still have trouble dealing with early wars coming, try not to settle too closely, some very angry and moody civs get annoyed(tempted to kill you - you identify as a "land target") just by having borders NEAR yours, not even touching.
If you DO have an aggressive neighbour near you, and you are worried about being attacked, just tech archery early, it slows you down a bit but will never end your game to just pick up archery. you can use your early barb defense archers to then fortify in your border city later after the barbs are done and you have fogbusted successfully, or just go and put warriors there to replace them and shuffle the archers over.
For the record I very rarely have problems with early dows, it happens really rarely. By 1000bc, where AI usually have a higher chance to start plotting as they finish iron working around this time; you should also have access to your own metal or be close to finishing something to trade for IW.
The thing with early dows is seeing its coming. If you have a sus neighbour who might attack you then go send a warrior to watch their cities for buildup.
@@henrik9658 tnx
It's kinda unrealistic that The Great Wall only costs 150 hammers LMAO. It's probably the biggest wonder in history.
It would have been nice if you had mentioned which ones are good to capture, otherwise I'm really liking the video!
that's true, things like notre dame, spiral minaret, even stonehenge, sistine, statue of liberty are great to capture. and of course the usual S/A tier wonders
live Darius I reaction in the thumbnail
Thanks for that Tier List, I just back to Civ4 after 1.5 year break and enjoying Your content; helpful for noobie like me 😅
I think The Great Wall is not enough for A tier, most of the time we can fog bust with a few warriors.
Shwedagon Paya; could find usage on isolated maps with rich commerce plots and Gold for Double Speed. Simply just hit that Free Religion for 10%.
I know it's not amazing but it could still be on the C tier; actually at this point of game Pacifism will do better coz on Free Religion we not profit much from that happiness boost.
Some Wonders are just situational and depend on player needs.
Anyway sleep time for me, laters ❤
my struggle is city size, and choosing what victory is best i know leaders depend on that but city location also important. ex is 1 flood plain enough for size 6 or 10 and if i have 3 food sources should i build 3 cities or one taking them all
Having you first few cities being able to share tiles can be better.
Does require some micro.
If you had one city build a wonder and working hammers, you could have another city takeover the cottage squares and continue to grow them for the other city.
Also keeps early game distant maintenance costs down so you could have more cities up, easier to defend and more cities to produce units for a rush.
Hey I thought I had a bit of a big brain strategy regarding Versailles, please tell me what you think. On terra where there’s the new world to colonise, I purposely save a great engineer. Settle the Southern Hemisphere of the new world and the northern hemisphere. Obviously maintenance cost is extreme, so build the forbidden palace in one hemisphere, then using a great engineer build Versailles in the other hemisphere. Pretty much wipes out maintenance cost. Then beeline communism, build the Kremlin and take over the new world with universal suffrage. You triple your size in a very short space of time. Then you can either space trace or airlift hundreds of tanks to the old world and conquer. I’m just about to do this as Hannibal on emperor, Going quite well
Yes that's probably the most practical use you will get out of it, though to be completely honest, let's say you lib astronomy, to get galleons and settle the new world, you are from there only 2 techs away from communism itself. Get some universities and observatories up while saving gold, pick up printing press for more economy boost then it's just scimeth straight to communism and bam economy fixed. Id rather use that great engineer to golden age push my way to communism and switch civics to pacifism to get a scientist and bulb printing press or scimeth if needed.
Divine right costs almost as much as printing press!!! It's just such a stupid expensive tech and stupid expensive wonder :(
You will be there at Communism before the maintenance has time to build up and eat you alive with this route.
@@henrik9658 ah yes that makes sense. To be honest I tend to leave state property alone on oceanic maps cause I’ve always assumed the foreign trade routes are too important but forgot that state property would cancel all distance maintenance anyway
It's the most overpowered civic honestly, so much money saved and helps a huge civ snowball further by making them pay nothing for their huge empire. Then it gives a free 10% production boost and a good boost on workshops and mills which is really really REALLY strong.
If I'm not going state property its because I'm trying to use a corporation, and if I'm going to use a corp it's probably going to be mining inc and I don't want to be in environmentalism which stupidly increases corporations maintenance when you already have colonial expenses and distance maintenance so free market it is.
You should make videos about a tier list of cívics or about how to predict tha AI backstabbing and diplomacy
You are the best!
please also rank the national wonders!
I probably won't do a video on it, but here is a quick example I suppose;
S tier (must build in your game) - oxford university, heroic epic, globe theatre(mainly for OP rifle drafting)
A tier (good) - ironworks, national epic, forbiddon palace
B tier (worth building) - wall street, mt rushmore
C tier (can be good but annoying) - national park, hermitage
D tier - none really
@@henrik9658 I'd add Moai Statues to A tier and Red Cross to D tier. I build National Epic almost always and just pump dudes in one city, so the others can work tiles and grow. If i don't have stone I usually skip Oxford.
FWIW Statue of Zeus isn't just good in MP, it tends to get outright banned in serious matches just because the penalty is WAY too oppressive for other players to deal with. You pretty much can never attack the human player who builds it without either investing a ton in reducing war weariness or being so overwhelming overpowered against them that you wipe them out before the WW builds up.
You can also make a halfway compelling argument that despite being the worst wonder in single player it might be worth building still just to deny it from an AI, especially if you have the misfortune of it being built by a vulnerable neighbor.
Don't do MP, but the information is interesting. Thanks!
@@winoodlesnoodles1984 Also worth noting as far as the difference between SP and MP goes, in SP even in the worst case it’s generally easy to peace out an SoZ AI to mitigate the crazy war weariness if it gets too bad. A human SoZ player, however, has no incentive to ever accept peace if they can help it, so if the war weariness starts to get out of hand you’re likely stuck with it.
Also I sort of earlier implied the problem is only when the SoZ player is on the defense, but it’s honestly just as bad when they’re the ones attacking. One of the major advantages defenders get in civ 4 war is that you accrue less war weariness in your own territory compared to an attacker, but SoZ completely flips this on its head. To the point where even unsuccessful attacks can just destroy your economy and there’s really nothing you could’ve done about it.
Civics tier list please! Usage and advantages!
Hmm okay, after the buildings one. Can you believe I actually use serfdom in an upcoming game??
Question: does reaching the obsoletion tech for a wonder make it obsolete just for you, or for everyone? IE if Civ A builds a wonder and Civ B discovers the obsoletion tech, does Civ A continue getting the benefits until it aso discovers the tech, or do the benefits stop immediately?
Someone asked the same question so I get to copy paste!
In regards to obsoleting wonders, it's always when the OWNER of the wonder researches the respective tech that obsoletes it. So, if someone built the apostolic palace, it's going to be in effect until that civ researches mass media. Or, if you built the great lighthouse, you can get the most out of it by avoiding corporations. The other civs' techs will have no effect on your wonders.
Would you kindly do a Great Person Tier List and a Specialist Tier List in a single video? I suspect it would be rather short and easy to do.
Also your Discord link won't work for me. Says it is bad or expired.
something to think about, but here's a quick one:
S - scientist, merchant
A (good but situational) - engineer, spy
B -
C (rarely useful) - prophet, artist
D -
discord.gg/AeTnRQPEUs updated the discord link
If you're going for a cultural victory, does it become worth it to build some of the low-tier wonders just for the culture?
EDIT: I see you answered my question at 13:41, haha
Yup, any of the high base culture wonders become decent for culture victories if they're in your top 3 cities. Some are only +4 which aren't really worth it for that though.
First thump up then watching video..
Would like to see you go for Oracle in a game.
Tomorrows video!
Why are golden ages so good. I know they’re good but idk how good
according to the wiki.
""Increased commerce: Any tile that produces at least 1 commerce will get one bonus commerce. If your civ is Financial, then you get your +1 commerce on all tiles with commerce!
Increased production: Any tile that produces at least 1 hammer will get one bonus hammer.
Increased Great Person birthrates: All cities get a +100% bonus to their rate of Great Person point production.
No anarchy when changing civics.""
Increased commerce means more tech if youre using your slider to research, more gold if youre using your slider to get wealth. Wealth funds armies and it also funds research while youre losing money each turn, and you typically gain the ability to research more the more you build cities and expand those cities and build libraries and whatnot, so earning money while building facilities to boost your research and building more cities and expanding them, then researching while losing money, effectively gains more research than if you just keep your slider at 100 percent science the whole time, or trying to.
and of course, more research means getting techs before your opponent, getting bonuses that exist for researching stuff first, getting wonders before someone else, having an advantage in war, getting key buildings like universities earlier, etc.
great persons allow you to bulb techs, they can also be settled for small bonuses over time for the rest of the game, so more great persons generally means more beakers, more wealth, or more culture or more hammers, depending on the type of great person. a golden age synergizes well with pacifism as well, because it stacks, the great person point generation i mean.
You can change civics fast, which is great because whenever youre in anarchy youre not collecting wealth or researching, so effectively your entire economy is doing nothing during every turn of anarchy.
think of the game like a race with the ai to get gold and research faster, and to a certain extent, hammers and food as well. the more of that stuff you collect and put to good use, the better you do in the race. golden ages do a whole bunch of different things to make your civ move extremely fast, gaining wealth and research and allowing you to change into more efficient and better governments without losing money, and also, superpowering your ability to make great people.
sometimes i go pacifism and build up my cities in terms of granaries and population and farms, and then go for a golden age and also do caste system, so i can run a whole bunch of scientists or merchants in every city, even at a food deficit. i dont care if the city loses a bunch of population that it will easily get back after the golden age, i pull people off of anything that isnt a super good farm, and everyone is now a scientist or merchant, and i run representation so each specialist is generating +3 beakers.
do that in every city, and tell me how good your economy is.
Im very bad at this game. when i do the above thing with pacifism and a golden age and caste system and representation, even i run a decent economy for as long as the golden age lasts.
i like to chain the golden ages together, starting them with taj mahal, and then popping one great person later like a great spy i got early on that i never use, and thats a second golden age, and through generating all these great people points I easily have enough for the 2 i need for the next golden age, and then i generate enough for the next three as well.
so i end up being in a golden age for 4 nearly consecutive golden ages, and its really hard for me not to catch up to the computer civs or surpass them in so doing.
sure, if i dont build a good civilization, this temporary effect will wear off and i will never catch up, but if you use it well, its incredibly powerful.
it probably is nowhere near as powerful as being a strong warmonger with a huge army. If you cant survive an attack, and youre going to be attacked on higher difficulties, then your economy doesnt mean a whole lot. but my second priority after not being destroyed is to make the most of my few golden ages i ever get. thats why the wonder that starts golden ages or extends them are so important to how i play, at my skill level.
whereas henrik really values the stuff that you can realistically get on immortal or deity, and has a much better understanding of the cost benefit analysis of each wonder.
This video was very educational for me, because I know what each wonder does, Ive read the wiki and the civilopedia many times, but my judgment in valuing these techs or these wonders and especially my experience is lacking compared to henrik's.
I know relatively strongly how to turn golden ages into something powerful, but i bet if henrik were to do my exact same strategy he'd find flaws in it while also executing it better, and he knows when a different strategy would be much better or more likely to be successful. whereas i just tend to peacemonger and try to go for a powerful and long golden age every game as my one trick pony strategy. im bad at anything that isnt that.
On average it's a 20-30% commerce boost, 30-40% production boost, 100% great person boost, no anarchy. Really great to gain momentum or catch up to the high difficulty ai with all their bonuses.
To quote Henrik, "Big brain play." As he mentions, if you aren't Spiritual, using golden ages to strategically change government with no anarchy is incredible, saving you lots of production and commerce.
What about Moai Statues, Mt Rushmore, and Globe Theater?
These are national wonders which you can build at any stage when appropriate.
What I would have changed:
1. Hanging gardens - move right, on Hollywood level
2. Three Gorges Dam - move to C
3. Kremlin - move to B
4. Great Library - move to S
5. University of Sankore - move right, before Hollywood
6. Angkor Wat - move left, after Notre Dame
7. Temple of Artemis - move to C, before Space Elevator
2 and 3, sure I can understand that,
4, I disagree, great library is very strong but pyramids and glh are even stronger on another level
Left/right shifts I won't comment on those are very minor and my opinion on those can easily sway with one good game with them.
Versaille is actually the best wonder in the game, use great profits to get to divine right quickly then use a great engineer to build versaille. If you get this wonder early then its pretty much a guaranteed win.
Hello Bismarck is this you?
@henrik9658 I'm not sure if this is a reference to the Franco prussian war?
Nah I just assumed/hoped you were joking about Versailles being good and Bismarck as the AI does a lot of very silly things.
@henrik9658 definitely not joking. The savings in maintenance compound throughout the game. If leveraged early via rush strategy then you're pretty much set
Yes but you can just get courthouses and the forbidden palace much earlier than divine right and save so much more. Or bee line communism and save even more than you can ever imagine. I would rather pop great merchants and get 4k gold if I'm having economic problems, than spend two prophets on divine right! I just don't think it's worth the investment at all. Instead of 2 prophets and an engineer you can also get 3 scientists and get philosophy education printing press and fix your economy with those techs. Building wealth and courthouses are usually enough to fix a broken economy and get you to communism or wherever you need to get to.
The only time I ever build Versailles is if I'm roflstomping AI on a continents map, have conquered an entire continent to myself, and have started invading a second continent. My Forbidden Palace goes on the opposite end of the continent I start on, and Versailles goes on the other side of the ocean.
Even then you can probably tech communism before it's finished building
@@henrik9658 that's very true.
Stonehenge is quite the noob trap. Just play creative leaders, you get literally double the effect *for free.*
But what if i wanna play Julius?
Play him and build settlers instead of wasting time on stonehenges. Build monuments if absolutely necessary
@@henrik9658 Ok. Thanks.
Strongly disagree. Games where I’ve passed on Stonehenge I found to be starting at a disadvantage
:D
Algorithm
this is a comment
I was vibing with you until you talked all that smack about Stonehenge. S tier wonder and I build it every game. Loved the video ha but I have to respectfully disagree.
Maybe for lower levels it's ok but it's really not good for immortal and especially for deity difficulty. Too much early development lost and your great scientist pool is poisoned. To each and their own though.
@@henrik9658 That's true, we all play differently. I find it useful to have the world map centered in the early game. Ganna start you unit tier list soon!!!