This game is so underrated these days, I mean not a single android or console port of this game exist now, It was in World Snooker Challange games and Virtual Pool but in both games you can only play solo controlling both apponents or with 2 players, no CPU and I've asked many Android game developers to add it but they don't seem to be interested
TheChelnov - I don't want to be "that guy", but I must: Please let this game be "underground". English Billiards is the "singularity" (or the "Holy Grail", so to speak) of ALL billiards, period. For players who dare to perfect this game will have a very solid foundation and excellence for any billiard game you touch. This is why I am not for spreading this game. BUT, if it does happen, then I will not be disappointed on that, either.
It's nice someone is spreading the word on the great game, English Billiards did come first and was first played in the 16th century, although it was different to how it is played today. I thought I would add to the information here which is mostly correct, In general even thought you do get two points for doing it, you do not want to pot the other cue ball, as it stays off the table and you only have two balls until your turn ends, top players make 'breaks' or as you say 'a run' in excess of 500 points, 1000 point breaks are also made, but not last year as in 2020 as the three top world breaks were 660. 587 and '575' 'refereed by me', many go over 200 regularly so they set out to make very large breaks and that cannot be done with just two balls on the table as there is also the 'limitations of hazards' so the best you can do with two balls is 45 points from after the other cue ball was potted. so you do not pot the other cue ball. The head string, as you call it, is really called the 'baulk line' and the area directly behind it is called 'baulk' so yes, when you come to the table with your cue ball in your hand, then you may not play a ball in Baulk until you first hit a cushion out of baulk, so its common to put both the red and your cue ball in baulk at the end of your turn to force your opponent to try to hit one them off a cushion and thereby make an error, on a full sized table, its not as easy as it looks here as the table is huge and the pockets are much harder to put balls in them due to the shape and size of the pockets. Also, when 'in hand' the cue ball must be played from inside the D area, that is the large half circle area as seen on snooker and billiards tables, so were the cue ball forward of the baulk line or outside the D area when played from hand, then that stroke would be a foul. Due to top elite players being too good at some strokes, then some stokes were limited in how many consecutive times you can do it in a row. to go 'in off' the red is worth 3 points, it is also a losing hazard, to go in off the other cue ball, is worth 2 points and that is also a losing hazard, to pot the red, that is worth three point and is 'a winning hazard' and to pot the other cue ball, that is also a 'winning hazard' worth 2 points, but you don't want to play that one as you lose that ball until your turn ends. So all these scoring strokes are call 'hazards' and after an Australian called George Gray went to the UK and played 880 of them in a row, then the English authorities were so alarmed that they restricted hazards to 15, so at or before you get to 16 hazards you must play a canon or any stroke that was a 16th hazard is also a foul. Likewise the greatest player of all time, Walter Lindrum, yes he was also an Australian, he could play so many cannons in a row including breaks over 2000 regularly and he set a world record break of 4137, that canons were limited to 75 and that is just 150 points, so at or before 75 canons, then you must play a hazard as a 76th cannon will be a foul, there were other players who showed that both cannons and hazards needed to be limited too, the limitations of canons was done to stop Lindrum, did it? No. Walter used to play very long games and give 7000 start in professional games, many contemporary players would say "he can't beat me after giving me 700 start" so who won, mostly Walter Lindrum won as he could give 7000 start and win. Also top and other good players rarely pot the red and also go in off it for 6, and very rarely pot and go in off the other cue ball for 4, the reason is that the red goes on its spot and the cue ball is then in hand to play from the D, so that often would mean a much harder next stroke and were they to play that 4 stroke and pot and go in off the other cue ball then the other cue ball then stays off the table until they fail to score, so they then only have 2 balls and 15 hazards is all they can play with two balls, so they don't normally do it as making one score with one ball in each stroke is better, as doing that helps them control the balls and thereby make very large breaks. So the full sized tables called 'Snooker tables' are in fact 'English Billiards Tables' yes they are and the spots on them were put where they are first for English Billiards, but are also used for Snooker as it came second. Now there are other limitations, the red is not always spotted on the spot, which is also the black spot in snooker, as the number of times it may be potted from its spot is just 2, so after being potted twice from its spot it goes on the center spot, a spot also used for the blue ball in snooker and were that spot occupied, it goes onto the Pyramid spot, which is also the Pink spot in snooker. That limitation of 2 red pots from the spot, was due to all the players who could get behind the red and pot it over and over, so that could not be allowed so on top of the hazard limitation of 15, there is also the pot the red from the spot limitation of 2. Also, the spot, which is also the black spot for snooker, in both snooker and billiards, that spot is at the 'top of the table' the baulk line and the baulk area, are at the 'bottom of the table'. If any of you want to see the World Champions play English Billiards and get huge breaks, then do go to the 'World Billiards' page on TH-cam, th-cam.com/channels/wan1g_8gB4c4gL0o8xVl1Q.html subscribe and watch some games as there are hundreds of great games to see there on the World Billiards page, also, you could go to my streaming page, also on TH-cam called th-cam.com/channels/dzv6PMYZh5EbWj3_o-0aYQ.html, subscribe and watch those games, there are a lot of great games to see on the Billiards pages on TH-cam. If you want to read and understand the rules for both games better, then they can be downloaded for free as a PDF from the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Assn web site at wpbsa.com/. N
Hey Philly Fingers , you know? English Billiards was a part of Billiards Seagames too. In Vietnam, It is pretty rare to see someone play English Billiards, I know one place where i can play, The owner i knew was one of Seagames 2003 participant playing English billiards for Vietnam Team
Interesting video What a wonderful way to introduce the game to the Americans Although I would've preferred (since you are introducing the game) that you used proper terminology E.g. - Break - Hazards (Pots or in-offs) - Pot (Winning hazard) - Loser/In-off (Losing hazard) - Baulk, Baulkline and Double-Baulked - The D Also, a few extra rules you should've added: - Potting the red of the spot twice consecutively moves it to the centre spot (after this the red goes back to the spot) - If the spot the red is meant to go to is occupied then it goes on the pyramid spot (pink spot in Snooker) - You are only allowed 15 consecutive hazards (the 16th consecutive hazard is a foul/fault) and this is why players don't pot their opponent's cueball - You are only allowed 75 consecutive cannons (the 76th consecutive cannon is a foul/fault). This is to prevent excessive use of nursery cannons - Your cueball must cross the baulkline at least once between 80th and 99th point every 100 points You forgot a couple things about when you are double-baulked: - You can go into baulk directly provided the cueball had left baulk before first contact (e.g. baulk cushion then side cushion then top cushion then side cushion then a cannon). This rule is little known so I didn't expect it to be in this video - If you miss a shot when double-baulked, the opponents is awarded two points but it is not a foul/fault. Instead it's a miss. This is because a foul/fault allows the opponents to respot the balls (i.e. the red on the spot, the opponent's cueball on the centre spot with the player's cueball in hand in the D) Also, I find it amusing, since you are playing this on an American Pool table, a lot of the shots you are playing here wouldn't be attempted on a full-sized English Billiard table (unless if it the balls are in a certain position or you are attempting a trickshot) e.g. trying to pot a ball over several cushions, both potting a ball and going in-off, doubling the red into one of the baulk pockets in the first shot. Great video regardless P.S. You need to level your table
Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Yes I should’ve add those extra rules but was worried about making the video too long. But all great points. Sadly it’s not played enough here and when it is some rule changes have been made.
@@PhillyFingers Fair enough I suppose since Snooker is hardly played over there then English Billiards must be unknown Here in the UK, this game has been dead since before the war. How did you learn about this game? I never thought I'd ever meet an American that is aware of this game (although I am aware that Mike Massey played this game during the Lindrum Masters in 1999)
@@gurditrehal3348 yes snooker isn’t played much only at few small locations and English Billiards even more rare. I’ve been playing carom billiards or 3 cushion billiards since 1990. I then stumbled upon this game around 1995 playing some older players at the time.
Phily giving the game a better spotlight is why i jump on posts like yours, spreading the word is the best way to keep it alive, Mark Hurst is an excellent player and here he is explains "top of the table", this is the preferred way the top players make breaks as they eliminate the stroke limitations, by going pot, pot, cannon, pot, canon, then they never get near the limitation of 15 hazards, so "Top of the Table" play is how they do it. When the lights go out, Mark has scored 57. At the end they are looking to see if the cue ball is touching a ball, it does happen so when the cue ball does stop touching any ball, then the balls get spotted, its compulsory, red to its spot, the other cue ball goes to the center spot and the player continues in hand for his next stroke. Mark starts with the Drop Canon, to bring the balls together, then he pays some ToftT, for a while and finishes with Nursery canons, canons are limited to 75 so here Mark does not got close to that. Nursery Canons and other close canons were Lindrums main weapon, he once walked the balls 2 1/2 times around the table before he broke down. Being able to play this well is what Billiards players dream about. N th-cam.com/video/Loz4H3U1mio/w-d-xo.html
@@PhillyFingers after two successive pots off the 'black' spot unless you get a pot-cannon in between. Also you can't play from anywhere behind the head string,only from within the 'D'
I like your video, no useless talking like so many others. Could you explain the markings on the table for placing the red and the white when it is pocketed. I'm trying to mark up an 8ft pool table so I can play billiards on it. Thanks
It's a pity English billiards isn't more popular. This game lets us play a LOT more of banks, kisses, caroms etc. that we typically don't play in the standard 8-ball or 9-ball pool. I like this game for just that aspect of it. It's a very good strategy game that tests both offense and defense as well.
Really informative video, and you play well. I only have space for a mini table and when upgrading the balls to a slightly bigger size I came across reds and yellows. So I ordered them lol. Seems like a nice game to play on a small table, glad I found this video
Is this on a bar box? I play English billiards on a full sized table in a club. I'm wondering about getting a table for home but probably only have room for a small one. Obviously it is very different on a small table but it still looks good fun.
Yes a bar box as it’s all I can fit at home. Ideally it’s played on a snooker size 12ft table with rounded corners. Another good option is a Chinese 8 ball table. Same as snooker but at 9 ft.
@@PhillyFingers Thank you. You make great use of your table! I was wondering about a Chinese eightball too. They're the same height as billiard / snooker tables and I could use the same balls - OR use American balls and play a tight pocket game of pool.
Nice to see this great game being explained , thank you doing it .
This game is so underrated these days, I mean not a single android or console port of this game exist now, It was in World Snooker Challange games and Virtual Pool but in both games you can only play solo controlling both apponents or with 2 players, no CPU and I've asked many Android game developers to add it but they don't seem to be interested
I agree. A great game that is dying out.
TheChelnov - I don't want to be "that guy", but I must: Please let this game be "underground". English Billiards is the "singularity" (or the "Holy Grail", so to speak) of ALL billiards, period. For players who dare to perfect this game will have a very solid foundation and excellence for any billiard game you touch. This is why I am not for spreading this game. BUT, if it does happen, then I will not be disappointed on that, either.
@@PhillyFingers Not if the World Billiards Assn has any say in it. N
English Billiards, is the great game, no doubt about it. N
@@billiardsandsnookervideosn8319 I’m hoping it can grow in the US Right now its one of the most unknown games here
It's nice someone is spreading the word on the great game, English Billiards did come first and was first played in the 16th century, although it was different to how it is played today. I thought I would add to the information here which is mostly correct, In general even thought you do get two points for doing it, you do not want to pot the other cue ball, as it stays off the table and you only have two balls until your turn ends, top players make 'breaks' or as you say 'a run' in excess of 500 points, 1000 point breaks are also made, but not last year as in 2020 as the three top world breaks were 660. 587 and '575' 'refereed by me', many go over 200 regularly so they set out to make very large breaks and that cannot be done with just two balls on the table as there is also the 'limitations of hazards' so the best you can do with two balls is 45 points from after the other cue ball was potted. so you do not pot the other cue ball.
The head string, as you call it, is really called the 'baulk line' and the area directly behind it is called 'baulk' so yes, when you come to the table with your cue ball in your hand, then you may not play a ball in Baulk until you first hit a cushion out of baulk, so its common to put both the red and your cue ball in baulk at the end of your turn to force your opponent to try to hit one them off a cushion and thereby make an error, on a full sized table, its not as easy as it looks here as the table is huge and the pockets are much harder to put balls in them due to the shape and size of the pockets. Also, when 'in hand' the cue ball must be played from inside the D area, that is the large half circle area as seen on snooker and billiards tables, so were the cue ball forward of the baulk line or outside the D area when played from hand, then that stroke would be a foul.
Due to top elite players being too good at some strokes, then some stokes were limited in how many consecutive times you can do it in a row. to go 'in off' the red is worth 3 points, it is also a losing hazard, to go in off the other cue ball, is worth 2 points and that is also a losing hazard, to pot the red, that is worth three point and is 'a winning hazard' and to pot the other cue ball, that is also a 'winning hazard' worth 2 points, but you don't want to play that one as you lose that ball until your turn ends. So all these scoring strokes are call 'hazards' and after an Australian called George Gray went to the UK and played 880 of them in a row, then the English authorities were so alarmed that they restricted hazards to 15, so at or before you get to 16 hazards you must play a canon or any stroke that was a 16th hazard is also a foul.
Likewise the greatest player of all time, Walter Lindrum, yes he was also an Australian, he could play so many cannons in a row including breaks over 2000 regularly and he set a world record break of 4137, that canons were limited to 75 and that is just 150 points, so at or before 75 canons, then you must play a hazard as a 76th cannon will be a foul, there were other players who showed that both cannons and hazards needed to be limited too, the limitations of canons was done to stop Lindrum, did it? No.
Walter used to play very long games and give 7000 start in professional games, many contemporary players would say "he can't beat me after giving me 700 start" so who won, mostly Walter Lindrum won as he could give 7000 start and win.
Also top and other good players rarely pot the red and also go in off it for 6, and very rarely pot and go in off the other cue ball for 4, the reason is that the red goes on its spot and the cue ball is then in hand to play from the D, so that often would mean a much harder next stroke and were they to play that 4 stroke and pot and go in off the other cue ball then the other cue ball then stays off the table until they fail to score, so they then only have 2 balls and 15 hazards is all they can play with two balls, so they don't normally do it as making one score with one ball in each stroke is better, as doing that helps them control the balls and thereby make very large breaks.
So the full sized tables called 'Snooker tables' are in fact 'English Billiards Tables' yes they are and the spots on them were put where they are first for English Billiards, but are also used for Snooker as it came second. Now there are other limitations, the red is not always spotted on the spot, which is also the black spot in snooker, as the number of times it may be potted from its spot is just 2, so after being potted twice from its spot it goes on the center spot, a spot also used for the blue ball in snooker and were that spot occupied, it goes onto the Pyramid spot, which is also the Pink spot in snooker. That limitation of 2 red pots from the spot, was due to all the players who could get behind the red and pot it over and over, so that could not be allowed so on top of the hazard limitation of 15, there is also the pot the red from the spot limitation of 2. Also, the spot, which is also the black spot for snooker, in both snooker and billiards, that spot is at the 'top of the table' the baulk line and the baulk area, are at the 'bottom of the table'.
If any of you want to see the World Champions play English Billiards and get huge breaks, then do go to the 'World Billiards' page on TH-cam, th-cam.com/channels/wan1g_8gB4c4gL0o8xVl1Q.html subscribe and watch some games as there are hundreds of great games to see there on the World Billiards page, also, you could go to my streaming page, also on TH-cam called th-cam.com/channels/dzv6PMYZh5EbWj3_o-0aYQ.html, subscribe and watch those games, there are a lot of great games to see on the Billiards pages on TH-cam.
If you want to read and understand the rules for both games better, then they can be downloaded for free as a PDF from the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Assn web site at wpbsa.com/. N
Wow!!
Would love to try this game but would need to have all of the scoring ways listed on a cheat sheet
Hey Philly Fingers , you know? English Billiards was a part of Billiards Seagames too. In Vietnam, It is pretty rare to see someone play English Billiards, I know one place where i can play, The owner i knew was one of Seagames 2003 participant playing English billiards for Vietnam Team
Thank you very much! That was the best introduction video I came across so far!
Interesting video
What a wonderful way to introduce the game to the Americans
Although I would've preferred (since you are introducing the game) that you used proper terminology
E.g.
- Break
- Hazards (Pots or in-offs)
- Pot (Winning hazard)
- Loser/In-off (Losing hazard)
- Baulk, Baulkline and Double-Baulked
- The D
Also, a few extra rules you should've added:
- Potting the red of the spot twice consecutively moves it to the centre spot (after this the red goes back to the spot)
- If the spot the red is meant to go to is occupied then it goes on the pyramid spot (pink spot in Snooker)
- You are only allowed 15 consecutive hazards (the 16th consecutive hazard is a foul/fault) and this is why players don't pot their opponent's cueball
- You are only allowed 75 consecutive cannons (the 76th consecutive cannon is a foul/fault). This is to prevent excessive use of nursery cannons
- Your cueball must cross the baulkline at least once between 80th and 99th point every 100 points
You forgot a couple things about when you are double-baulked:
- You can go into baulk directly provided the cueball had left baulk before first contact (e.g. baulk cushion then side cushion then top cushion then side cushion then a cannon). This rule is little known so I didn't expect it to be in this video
- If you miss a shot when double-baulked, the opponents is awarded two points but it is not a foul/fault. Instead it's a miss. This is because a foul/fault allows the opponents to respot the balls (i.e. the red on the spot, the opponent's cueball on the centre spot with the player's cueball in hand in the D)
Also, I find it amusing, since you are playing this on an American Pool table, a lot of the shots you are playing here wouldn't be attempted on a full-sized English Billiard table (unless if it the balls are in a certain position or you are attempting a trickshot) e.g. trying to pot a ball over several cushions, both potting a ball and going in-off, doubling the red into one of the baulk pockets in the first shot.
Great video regardless
P.S. You need to level your table
Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Yes I should’ve add those extra rules but was worried about making the video too long. But all great points. Sadly it’s not played enough here and when it is some rule changes have been made.
@@PhillyFingers Fair enough
I suppose since Snooker is hardly played over there then English Billiards must be unknown
Here in the UK, this game has been dead since before the war. How did you learn about this game? I never thought I'd ever meet an American that is aware of this game (although I am aware that Mike Massey played this game during the Lindrum Masters in 1999)
@@gurditrehal3348 yes snooker isn’t played much only at few small locations and English Billiards even more rare. I’ve been playing carom billiards or 3 cushion billiards since 1990. I then stumbled upon this game around 1995 playing some older players at the time.
Must be American style billiards. I didn't recognise some of the terms (although I recognise the shots) - and some scoring as well, but I'm unsure
Phily giving the game a better spotlight is why i jump on posts like yours, spreading the word is the best way to keep it alive, Mark Hurst is an excellent player and here he is explains "top of the table", this is the preferred way the top players make breaks as they eliminate the stroke limitations, by going pot, pot, cannon, pot, canon, then they never get near the limitation of 15 hazards, so "Top of the Table" play is how they do it. When the lights go out, Mark has scored 57. At the end they are looking to see if the cue ball is touching a ball, it does happen so when the cue ball does stop touching any ball, then the balls get spotted, its compulsory, red to its spot, the other cue ball goes to the center spot and the player continues in hand for his next stroke.
Mark starts with the Drop Canon, to bring the balls together, then he pays some ToftT, for a while and finishes with Nursery canons, canons are limited to 75 so here Mark does not got close to that. Nursery Canons and other close canons were Lindrums main weapon, he once walked the balls 2 1/2 times around the table before he broke down. Being able to play this well is what Billiards players dream about. N
th-cam.com/video/Loz4H3U1mio/w-d-xo.html
Red ball doesn’t keep getting replaced on the black spot , it moves to the blue spot
You’re right as I do play it a bit differently here. Great point. Can you elaborate on when it goes to the blue then.
@@PhillyFingers after two successive pots off the 'black' spot unless you get a pot-cannon in between.
Also you can't play from anywhere behind the head string,only from within the 'D'
Thanks for the tips. It's a great game indeed. But please, level that table, the falling is ridiculous. 😂
I like your video, no useless talking like so many others. Could you explain the markings on the table for placing the red and the white when it is pocketed. I'm trying to mark up an 8ft pool table so I can play billiards on it. Thanks
It's a pity English billiards isn't more popular. This game lets us play a LOT more of banks, kisses, caroms etc. that we typically don't play in the standard 8-ball or 9-ball pool.
I like this game for just that aspect of it. It's a very good strategy game that tests both offense and defense as well.
English billiards is known in France and other French-speaking countries as "billard français".
Really informative video, and you play well. I only have space for a mini table and when upgrading the balls to a slightly bigger size I came across reds and yellows. So I ordered them lol. Seems like a nice game to play on a small table, glad I found this video
wtf did the white do there :))) 0:28
Is this on a bar box?
I play English billiards on a full sized table in a club.
I'm wondering about getting a table for home but probably only have room for a small one.
Obviously it is very different on a small table but it still looks good fun.
Yes a bar box as it’s all I can fit at home. Ideally it’s played on a snooker size 12ft table with rounded corners. Another good option is a Chinese 8 ball table. Same as snooker but at 9 ft.
@@PhillyFingers Thank you. You make great use of your table!
I was wondering about a Chinese eightball too. They're the same height as billiard / snooker tables and I could use the same balls - OR use American balls and play a tight pocket game of pool.
Man this is confusing can we just play bigs and smalls?