Did you make any mistakes on the path to FI that you'd like to share? For the full text of each of the Reddit posts we discussed in this episode, please see the show notes: twosidesoffi.com/how-not-to-fire-1/
My dad died at 40. He was always working hard - trying to save for future and died of a heart attack. There is nothing we wouldnt give to have more time with him.
yikes 5%!!! teachers in my town wait 5-8 years to get a 1% raise then get hit with higher co pays on healthcare and say YAY A RAISE!!!!!!! when they get a negitive raise
Really loving your content guys! My personal principle once I officially start my FIRE journey is still to live life and not over-delay the gratification!
Great discussion. My biggest take away is to strike a proper balance between living in the present and that longer term FI goal. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.
You're welcome, Linda. You've got this! If you've not checked out our earlier videos, we think you will find useful content in there for you as well. Best wishes to you on your journey!
Just discovered you guys and loving the content so far, looking forward to getting caught up on your archived content! Not sure what I’m more jealous of, your FIRE success of the awesome friendship you guys clearly have.
Neh, the problem is however that with both adults working full time with a family is that there isn't much time to spend money on leisure. We have a nice entertainment center at home with loads of peripherals. But we don't really travel. Most days off are just to rest at home. One of the goals once we reach fire is to explore the world a bit. We don't need luxuries anywhere, but just going places and having experiences. Fire isn't the problem though, our jobs are. We're somewhere around 1/8-1/4 of the way to full fire. The goal is to reach a bit beyond the minimum point and then possibly drop down to working 50 % each. We'll be able to keep saving even when earning half as much, so the money we have will keep compounding undisturbed for many years. Fire has never been about torturing ourselves. It's about being deliberate when spending as to what will be useful or bring happiness.
Jason here - thanks, David! Eric is a pro at that stuff and has clearly honed his craft over the years with his 30x40 Workshop channel. I've learned so much from his example. Thanks for your support!
As a side note: keep up the good work gentlemen. My wife and I were born in Maine to humble beginnings and moved to the finger lakes in upstate NY for my engineering job 15 years ago (maybe we passed each other on the mass pike?) We have already hit FI and are on a path to retire in a couple of years once my wife hits 50 and gets her government pension. We are going through all the same things you guys have / are going through: meticulous budgeting to get a handle on our burn rate, when/where to move, getting our 11 and 13 year olds to college, reconnecting with family that we had to move away from, and the ever present question of trying to figure out what you are retiring to and what hobbies you want to pick up. I enjoy your discussions as they are very relevant to me and I wish you guys the best.
To be honest that last dude sounded like a driven confident 27 year old completely focused on an end goal. Absolute blinders on for anything else going on in the world. I wish him luck, but it will be interesting to see if he is happy once he gets there...
I was going to post the same. I feel like that young man - haven’t read his whole post so I’m assuming here - needs to find a young lady with the same Fat FIRE goal, if he’s already discussed his goal with his current GF and she’s not interested. If he finds a partner who is equally focused, the sky is the limit! However, it sounds like he needs to relax a bit a to some balance into his life. The the other poster states - he might reach his destination but will miss the journey.
I made a lot of investment mistakes early on like chasing various trading strategies only to switch as soon as I hit a major drawdown period. Now I just use index funds. Be boring and make money. One word on company stocks/options: Enron. Don't put all your investments in your company stock. Unless you are the CFO, you have no idea what is going on with the company books.
Thanks for sharing, Darrin. We like the boring approach as well. And that's a great reminder about the risk of putting all your eggs in one basket. Cheers
I have only watched a couple videos but I really loved your take on the last segment. I'm not really fire but I'm saving for retirement and acknowledging that not everyone needs to be fire to have value is a great approach to have. That person has some problems
This is a really great video. As someone who is in his low 30s who just made a career change into architecture (which isn't a profession that instantly makes you wealthy despite what many seem to think) and likely not retiring early I have a lot of thoughts about the things that people were sharing in these comments. How realistic is it to reach FI or retire early when starting so late? How much in your life do you sacrifice now to enjoy more in the future? etc. It was a good point brought up that reading and watching too many blogs or TH-cam videos about FIRE can make things pretty overwhelming but I think making this video and reading real comments from real people and sharing your thoughts makes it very relatable and brings everything back down to Earth a little bit. Thanks for that.
Thanks, Michael! The old adage about investing is that the best time to start is yesterday, and the second best time is today. Starting earlier does give you advantages in compounding over time. Starting later doesn't mean you can't achieve your goals, but correspondingly you will need to save more on a monthly basis, for example, than had you started earlier. The question of delayed gratification is also important one, but to your point and as discussed here, it's about finding balance. And that answer will differ for each of us. Best wishes to you!
I'm about to turn 32, 100% debt free, and have a massive head start towards a lavish retirement. The cost: Moving back in with my old man after my ex left me last year. I could easily afford an apartment but I would never get ahead. We get along and I pay no rent. Put 40% of my gross income into HSA/Roth 401(k) while maxing my IRA, while making less than 60k (until recently). I literally do not have any undeployed money to my name other than a few hundred dollars in my wallet that have been there for a month and 70 dollars in checking. I do not have access to any money that is currently invested either. I have zero dollars saved for a house. I drive a 2010 Fusion, that's paid off, and I have no plans on buying a new car, though I desperately want something newer. I wear modest clothing and own nothing fashionable. Future wealth potential does not resonate with women lmao I just look broke while broke guys look rich and they want that money *now* . That being said, with how far ahead I have gotten these past two years, I am going to max my IRA this year, save for a house by 2023/24, and hopefully find a woman before or after that. I'll tune it back up from there. My income *should* cross six figures by then.
My view of investing in individual stocks is that the price is based on popularity and not fundamentals. I tend to go for the boring ones with good fundamentals that no one appears to care about. Get ahead of the crowd. I only just found out about FIRE as i'm about to switch to the RE side. My view of what a good savings rate has been that I want a smooth transition. My spending level is at a level that i'm happy with and that level is going to stay the same as i transition. The only thing i am looking forward to is having more time and not changing my lifestyle. if you are thinking of traveling more when you retire, you should try traveling more now as time allows so you don't have so much pent up demand. i hate goals because they create a mindset of a big change once they are reached. You have to be enjoying the journey because that is where most of your life is going to be spent.
Great video. I'm not into investing (too risk adverse) but the part on saving for FI too hard is a question I often ask myself so your discussion was really thought provoking. thanks.
I really like what JL Collins said in his book: when we have money we don't get to choose whether or not to have risk, only what kind of risk. There is risk in owning stocks and risk in owning cash, they are just two different risks and we have to understand what those are
Young couples may start from the same understanding but as they age, they may or may not be on the same page. Divorce is devastating to personal finance.
I like the fulfillment curve in “your money or your life”, find that balance is key. Having too much was a situation I was in a few years ago, stuff starts owning you. Being in my early 50s, I see each year brings a little less ability and energy, so overly delaying things is not a good idea. I was able to go part time in my current job and that has helped reduce stress and reduced the emotional need to retire.
Hey folks! Love the content and thank you for sharing your experiences. Question, is your FIRE goal include you + partner? Or is that ab individual goal?
Thanks, Christian! We appreciate the feedback. Yes, our FI numbers (first introduced in th-cam.com/video/WMzya-HU8tU/w-d-xo.html) are for each of our households. In other words, yes, those ranges do include our spouses' expenses as well.
my wife and I keep our money separate and it has been the best thing so I disagree quite a bit with saying you have to put the whole thing together. I'm not an exorbitant spender but if I want to spend money on a hobby I don't want to need financial permission. it was her idea, but it has worked quite well for us.
Hey guys could you consider making a video talking about the different levels of FI (lean, FI, chubby, fat) and how to calculate each one? I was under the impression FI was 25X yearly expenses since it considers a 4% withdraw rate (100/4), and somewhere eIse I had read that lean was 20X, while Fat was 30X yearly expenses. Is this accurate? I'm getting mixed information online from different blogs. My wife and I are planning for a 3% withdraw rate so we did 33X yearly expenses (100%/3%) Wish you all the best!
In this video, you had mentioned you need about 5M to be in FAT FIRE. Does 5M account for total assets or excluding your primary home? Thx. Love your videos BTW.
Hate to say this but the last tech dude reminds me of a lot of people working in tech companies, making big money in stocks and/or Bitcoin… especially in SF Bay Area. They are intelligent, motivated and live well below their means. But they are also very self-centered, calculating and judgmental. They jump between companies to bid up their compensation package just like they switch partners to go from good to better (in their own standards) without much loyalty. To some, finding a partner means finding someone to lower living expenses and split rent/down payment and mortgage. They definitely don’t want any dead weight in this case as there’s not much love involved, just business. They value money over people and relationships. And they take joy in accumulating more wealth, having higher titles (social status) and getting ahead of the curve. If they get lucky and end up with any children, the cycle goes on. This just seems really pathetic in my opinion.
Selling Covered Calls on dividend stocks has been great for me. You can get up to 20% returns. There are multiple ways to succeed in getting to FIRE. Just choose the best way for you.
I have ETFs with decent monthly dividends that I would have to pay significant long-term cap gains taxes. Would it still be worth moving to index funds? 40 yrs old.
It's always best to check with a tax professional when it comes to vetting tax optimization strategy. There's definitely plusses and minuses to each. Here's a decent summary: www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/090215/comparing-etfs-vs-mutual-funds-tax-efficiency.asp
Jason here - thanks, Sydney. We're really glad you're liking the channel. To be fair, I'm prone to (really) go on at length. So I fully recognize that sometimes I need to be reined in so that we stay on topic! But I appreciate you looking out for me :) We greatly appreciate your support
I like the protocol projects in crypto. Cardano, Algorand, Tezos, Avalanche and Polkadot are the best. I think Ethereum is a short term hold only as it won't compete long term. Bitcoin is a must
Did you make any mistakes on the path to FI that you'd like to share? For the full text of each of the Reddit posts we discussed in this episode, please see the show notes: twosidesoffi.com/how-not-to-fire-1/
@@THEBTCSTACKER To the moon! Thanks for your support, we appreciate it.
My dad died at 40. He was always working hard - trying to save for future and died of a heart attack. There is nothing we wouldnt give to have more time with him.
yikes 5%!!! teachers in my town wait 5-8 years to get a 1% raise then get hit with higher co pays on healthcare and say YAY A RAISE!!!!!!! when they get a negitive raise
Really loving your content guys! My personal principle once I officially start my FIRE journey is still to live life and not over-delay the gratification!
Thank you! We love your worldview. All things in balance. Best wishes to you
Great discussion. My biggest take away is to strike a proper balance between living in the present and that longer term FI goal. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.
Thanks, PT. Well put!
Thank you so much. I've just started on the FI journey, aiming for FIRE. But so glad I came across this to avoid these mistakes!
You're welcome, Linda. You've got this! If you've not checked out our earlier videos, we think you will find useful content in there for you as well. Best wishes to you on your journey!
Just discovered you guys and loving the content so far, looking forward to getting caught up on your archived content!
Not sure what I’m more jealous of, your FIRE success of the awesome friendship you guys clearly have.
Thanks so much! We really appreciate the feedback.
Neh, the problem is however that with both adults working full time with a family is that there isn't much time to spend money on leisure. We have a nice entertainment center at home with loads of peripherals. But we don't really travel. Most days off are just to rest at home. One of the goals once we reach fire is to explore the world a bit. We don't need luxuries anywhere, but just going places and having experiences. Fire isn't the problem though, our jobs are. We're somewhere around 1/8-1/4 of the way to full fire. The goal is to reach a bit beyond the minimum point and then possibly drop down to working 50 % each. We'll be able to keep saving even when earning half as much, so the money we have will keep compounding undisturbed for many years. Fire has never been about torturing ourselves. It's about being deliberate when spending as to what will be useful or bring happiness.
Excellent points! Thanks so much for sharing and best wishes to you on your journey.
Guys...love the quality of the production. The sound and lighting are fantastic. Good job.
Jason here - thanks, David! Eric is a pro at that stuff and has clearly honed his craft over the years with his 30x40 Workshop channel. I've learned so much from his example. Thanks for your support!
As a side note: keep up the good work gentlemen. My wife and I were born in Maine to humble beginnings and moved to the finger lakes in upstate NY for my engineering job 15 years ago (maybe we passed each other on the mass pike?) We have already hit FI and are on a path to retire in a couple of years once my wife hits 50 and gets her government pension. We are going through all the same things you guys have / are going through: meticulous budgeting to get a handle on our burn rate, when/where to move, getting our 11 and 13 year olds to college, reconnecting with family that we had to move away from, and the ever present question of trying to figure out what you are retiring to and what hobbies you want to pick up. I enjoy your discussions as they are very relevant to me and I wish you guys the best.
Thanks so much for your comment, Andrew, and congratulations on achieving FI! We wish you the best as well.
To be honest that last dude sounded like a driven confident 27 year old completely focused on an end goal. Absolute blinders on for anything else going on in the world. I wish him luck, but it will be interesting to see if he is happy once he gets there...
Racing to the destination but later realises he has missed the journey.
I was going to post the same. I feel like that young man - haven’t read his whole post so I’m assuming here - needs to find a young lady with the same Fat FIRE goal, if he’s already discussed his goal with his current GF and she’s not interested. If he finds a partner who is equally focused, the sky is the limit! However, it sounds like he needs to relax a bit a to some balance into his life. The the other poster states - he might reach his destination but will miss the journey.
I made a lot of investment mistakes early on like chasing various trading strategies only to switch as soon as I hit a major drawdown period. Now I just use index funds. Be boring and make money. One word on company stocks/options: Enron. Don't put all your investments in your company stock. Unless you are the CFO, you have no idea what is going on with the company books.
Thanks for sharing, Darrin. We like the boring approach as well. And that's a great reminder about the risk of putting all your eggs in one basket. Cheers
I have only watched a couple videos but I really loved your take on the last segment. I'm not really fire but I'm saving for retirement and acknowledging that not everyone needs to be fire to have value is a great approach to have. That person has some problems
My favorite fire channel
Thanks so much! We sincerely appreciate your support.
Really love the discussion guys. Thank you so much for sharing
This is a really great video.
As someone who is in his low 30s who just made a career change into architecture (which isn't a profession that instantly makes you wealthy despite what many seem to think) and likely not retiring early I have a lot of thoughts about the things that people were sharing in these comments. How realistic is it to reach FI or retire early when starting so late? How much in your life do you sacrifice now to enjoy more in the future? etc.
It was a good point brought up that reading and watching too many blogs or TH-cam videos about FIRE can make things pretty overwhelming but I think making this video and reading real comments from real people and sharing your thoughts makes it very relatable and brings everything back down to Earth a little bit. Thanks for that.
Thanks, Michael! The old adage about investing is that the best time to start is yesterday, and the second best time is today. Starting earlier does give you advantages in compounding over time. Starting later doesn't mean you can't achieve your goals, but correspondingly you will need to save more on a monthly basis, for example, than had you started earlier.
The question of delayed gratification is also important one, but to your point and as discussed here, it's about finding balance. And that answer will differ for each of us.
Best wishes to you!
I'm about to turn 32, 100% debt free, and have a massive head start towards a lavish retirement.
The cost:
Moving back in with my old man after my ex left me last year. I could easily afford an apartment but I would never get ahead. We get along and I pay no rent.
Put 40% of my gross income into HSA/Roth 401(k) while maxing my IRA, while making less than 60k (until recently).
I literally do not have any undeployed money to my name other than a few hundred dollars in my wallet that have been there for a month and 70 dollars in checking.
I do not have access to any money that is currently invested either.
I have zero dollars saved for a house.
I drive a 2010 Fusion, that's paid off, and I have no plans on buying a new car, though I desperately want something newer.
I wear modest clothing and own nothing fashionable.
Future wealth potential does not resonate with women lmao I just look broke while broke guys look rich and they want that money *now* .
That being said, with how far ahead I have gotten these past two years, I am going to max my IRA this year, save for a house by 2023/24, and hopefully find a woman before or after that. I'll tune it back up from there. My income *should* cross six figures by then.
Love the discussion , hope I had such friends with similar FIRE interests for open discussions.
Thanks
thank you for all the valuable information you are providing for FREE to all of us!
My view of investing in individual stocks is that the price is based on popularity and not fundamentals. I tend to go for the boring ones with good fundamentals that no one appears to care about. Get ahead of the crowd. I only just found out about FIRE as i'm about to switch to the RE side. My view of what a good savings rate has been that I want a smooth transition. My spending level is at a level that i'm happy with and that level is going to stay the same as i transition. The only thing i am looking forward to is having more time and not changing my lifestyle. if you are thinking of traveling more when you retire, you should try traveling more now as time allows so you don't have so much pent up demand. i hate goals because they create a mindset of a big change once they are reached. You have to be enjoying the journey because that is where most of your life is going to be spent.
Lots of great points, Darren. Thanks for sharing!
Great video. I'm not into investing (too risk adverse) but the part on saving for FI too hard is a question I often ask myself so your discussion was really thought provoking. thanks.
I really like what JL Collins said in his book: when we have money we don't get to choose whether or not to have risk, only what kind of risk. There is risk in owning stocks and risk in owning cash, they are just two different risks and we have to understand what those are
This has been a great new recent find. Keep up the amazing content. Love it!
Thanks very much, Matthew! We appreciate your support.
Young couples may start from the same understanding but as they age, they may or may not be on the same page. Divorce is devastating to personal finance.
I like the fulfillment curve in “your money or your life”, find that balance is key. Having too much was a situation I was in a few years ago, stuff starts owning you. Being in my early 50s, I see each year brings a little less ability and energy, so overly delaying things is not a good idea. I was able to go part time in my current job and that has helped reduce stress and reduced the emotional need to retire.
Buenísimo!!!!
Hey folks! Love the content and thank you for sharing your experiences.
Question, is your FIRE goal include you + partner? Or is that ab individual goal?
Thanks, Christian! We appreciate the feedback. Yes, our FI numbers (first introduced in th-cam.com/video/WMzya-HU8tU/w-d-xo.html) are for each of our households. In other words, yes, those ranges do include our spouses' expenses as well.
That SoFLo background tho
This is really valuable content. Subbed and excited to watch future parts of the series!
Thanks so much for your support! We're really glad you're finding it valuable.
my wife and I keep our money separate and it has been the best thing so I disagree quite a bit with saying you have to put the whole thing together. I'm not an exorbitant spender but if I want to spend money on a hobby I don't want to need financial permission. it was her idea, but it has worked quite well for us.
Personal finance is...personal!
Hey guys could you consider making a video talking about the different levels of FI (lean, FI, chubby, fat) and how to calculate each one? I was under the impression FI was 25X yearly expenses since it considers a 4% withdraw rate (100/4), and somewhere eIse I had read that lean was 20X, while Fat was 30X yearly expenses. Is this accurate? I'm getting mixed information online from different blogs. My wife and I are planning for a 3% withdraw rate so we did 33X yearly expenses (100%/3%) Wish you all the best!
Hi Joseph. We've got you covered! There's a two-part series on FI numbers that starts with this one: th-cam.com/video/WMzya-HU8tU/w-d-xo.html
SUCH IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR ME TODAY. THANK YOU!
In this video, you had mentioned you need about 5M to be in FAT FIRE. Does 5M account for total assets or excluding your primary home? Thx. Love your videos BTW.
Thanks, Tony! Investment assets + cash
@@TwoSidesOfFI thx for clarifying that.
Hate to say this but the last tech dude reminds me of a lot of people working in tech companies, making big money in stocks and/or Bitcoin… especially in SF Bay Area. They are intelligent, motivated and live well below their means. But they are also very self-centered, calculating and judgmental. They jump between companies to bid up their compensation package just like they switch partners to go from good to better (in their own standards) without much loyalty. To some, finding a partner means finding someone to lower living expenses and split rent/down payment and mortgage. They definitely don’t want any dead weight in this case as there’s not much love involved, just business. They value money over people and relationships. And they take joy in accumulating more wealth, having higher titles (social status) and getting ahead of the curve. If they get lucky and end up with any children, the cycle goes on. This just seems really pathetic in my opinion.
Selling Covered Calls on dividend stocks has been great for me. You can get up to 20% returns. There are multiple ways to succeed in getting to FIRE. Just choose the best way for you.
I have ETFs with decent monthly dividends that I would have to pay significant long-term cap gains taxes. Would it still be worth moving to index funds? 40 yrs old.
It's always best to check with a tax professional when it comes to vetting tax optimization strategy. There's definitely plusses and minuses to each. Here's a decent summary: www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/090215/comparing-etfs-vs-mutual-funds-tax-efficiency.asp
Crypto is a different beast, requires a different understanding for investment.
another great episode! 🙋🏾♀️🔥
Thank you, Inea!
I love this channel!! But Eric is always interrupting Jason. It irks me and is disruptive. Let each other talk
Jason here - thanks, Sydney. We're really glad you're liking the channel. To be fair, I'm prone to (really) go on at length. So I fully recognize that sometimes I need to be reined in so that we stay on topic! But I appreciate you looking out for me :) We greatly appreciate your support
thanks for sharing ^^
I like the protocol projects in crypto.
Cardano, Algorand, Tezos, Avalanche and Polkadot are the best. I think Ethereum is a short term hold only as it won't compete long term. Bitcoin is a must
Sounds the same as gambling.
Indeed it does