The Dolby Atmos Issue for 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 Setups and What it Means for You!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ม.ค. 2022
- After a week of comments, research, and testing...I have found an issue pertaining to Dolby Atmos 5.1.2 and 5.1.4 setups. What does this mean for you? Check out the video and find out. Last week's video - • Bad Atmos!! Is a 5.1.... What is Auro-3D - • Video Click Show More!
Upmix Bad Atmos Mixes with Auro-3D - • Make BAD Dolby Atmos A...
What does 5.1.2 or 7.1.4 mean? Watch this - • Dolby Atmos Setup & Su...
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I’d say just do what you can with your room and speaker setup. Run the auto calibration, tweak the distance, crossover, etc. Then enjoy what you have. My setup isn’t ideal in my living room and I don’t have a spare room to accommodate it. So my surrounds are slight behind me and off to the sides. They’re pretty close to your head depending where you’re sitting on the couch. My setup isn’t how I’d like it to be but it works well for what I have.
Agreed!! Do what you can with what you’ve got. There’s too many Home Theater snobs that just started with an Atmos system. It’s just funny to me…
Rock...you have the most sensible comment here. Basically... "just use whatever you have to work with, the best you can. And...ENJOY IT!!!"
This is the best comment I've seen thus far! First off to Techo Dad, thank you for all the info in this vid. I also have 5.2.4 set up and my couch is against the wall. I do not have the space to accommodate a 7.2.4 so i calibrated my system to sound the best it can for my given space. it sounds amazing and I'm happy with it! At the end of the day YOU are the only person (and your wife) that needs to be happy with your sound.
Yes your right whatever you have to do to make it work even if you don't like the kind of speakers because in the end you might like those little things because they make it work
@@FatFolksProductions hi James, did you put 2 of the 4 ceilingspeakers right on top of your listening position? My couch is also against the wall and i am a bit struggling how to set them up in my room. I also have the denon 6700. Thanks for the help
I thought in general the receiver would re-route the sounds for the missing speakers in a traditional Dolby Digital setup. So if you have a 3.1 system (no surrounds) then the receiver will re-route the audio for the surrounds to your front left and right. At least that’s how I’ve read it in the manuals of the receivers I’ve had.
You are correct. Speaker setup systems for receivers mix that sound into the channels you do have. You aren't missing any sound, but you are not getting the discrete separation audio effect. You can switch the audio mode to 2.1 stereo, and you will still hear everything.
You are always very informative,you know you stuff Channa 👍🏾
Thank you for this video. I appreciate the content. I have a newly setup media area. Though my sitting space isn't flush against the back wall, I face a similar limitation because I have no full rear wall to place 'back surrounds" (7.1.4). With that being said I am running a 5.1.4. My concern is should I be rethinking using object based sound and maybe switch to channel based sound as you said. I wonder if I could use my rear heights as rear surrounds instead, would my ear level soundstage be fuller? When listening to most atmos mixes, like the bird flapping winged demo, the transition from left, to behind, to right sounds decent. But I'm interested in feedback to know if I can improve it.
Im so glad you are talking about this.
I am getting confused, maybe you can help clarify.
I have a 7.2.4 with a 12x25 room, my couch is against the back wall so I pulled it out a few feet to put rear surrounds behind the couch on stands so they clear the couch, then I put my side surrounds along the sides of the couch, then I mounted rear height speakers on the wall where it meets the ceiling for rear height speakers and in the front I have R625af towers with up-firing drivers in them for the front atmos speakers as I cant mount front heights right now in this room.
So having the X3700h I dont have auro 3d.
But I do have Neural X.
If I am understanding you right, up-mixing certain content will use my speakers more appropriately than a standard mix in some cases.
Where it is 5.1 mix for example on hulu live tv or other or DD+ for example, often it seems like my rear speakers aren't doing anything, my fronts, center and sides seem to do most of the work, unless I play a disc or a game that was mastered in 7.1.
Do I have that right?
What if anything can I do to use my rear surrounds more when watching bitstream/pcm/ 5.1 or DD+ content on live tv apps and other streaming services that offer those formats other than dts:x or Atmos so that I get audio in all my speakers?
And why is it with some things I cannot access Neural x but with others I can.
For example, when I use an app built into my tv WebOs, (I have the 77" CX) I do not get the option on my Denon for Neural X, but when I stream, through my xbx or firestick, I do get the option of using Neural x.
Thank you for any help understanding this a little better.
Be aware: if you watch the activity through f.ex. Trinnovs spatializer graphics, a lot of discs with Atmos actually have objects more or less locked to the channel locations...esp. Disney f.ex. are horrible with this. So, there is a lot of difference from the thinking that went into the Atmos spec and the end implemation of it in equipment and studio mixes. Together with some studios are also locking the mix to 7.1.4. My 2 cents: I would rather have 7.1 instead of .2 overhead whisper tracks...the amount of activity on the ceiling are very miniscule in most movies. The ones with decent Atmos usage are rare.
I agree with the 7.x over 5.x.2 and I’d rather wait to be able to make 7.x.4 possible as I’d rather full ass one thing than half ass 2 things. I want a full 360 degree immersive base layer; I want Atmos to improve on that by adding a “dome” on top of that base layer.
Properly setup, a 5.x/7.x simulates a partial done of sound, Atmos/Auro heights should finish building that dome and not be the only things making that dome of sound if that makes sense.
You should try recalibrating your system, I don't have that problem
It is a shame that there are many Atmos mixes that are like this. But I do think that we are getting more 'good' to 'excellent' Atmos mixes on a more consistent basis. At least with new releases. Now catalog titles, well there is still a long ways to go. My opinion of course.
I have a 7.2.4 system with four physical ceiling speakers (speakers are 30 degrees pre-angled and recessed into the ceiling drywall). When I set up my system a year ago I also noticed very little activity in the heights, however I've noticed recent movies making better use of heights (Dune in particular), and now even my Tidal music subscription gives me atmos mixes. Over the past couple months I have noticed that music mixes are using more height placement too. I plan to buy a 2nd set of in-wall and ceiling speakers for the family room the next time I run across an online sale. I heard that Dolby is trying hard to get Disney to stop treating atmos like a channels and actually use real objects. Some people with 9 bed channels (front wide speakers) notice movement from front to back skip front-wides because the sound was mixed as a channel instead of a moving object.
I have seen consistently poor comments and data on Disney releases. From compressed dynamic range in their sound mix, reduced overall volume as well as washed out colours on what should be an HDR presentation. I can’t remember the term but an article I read talked about some sludge filter being applied to the video because we don’t want it too colourful or something. I tried to watch black panther 4K but the sound issues were so disappointing for me I turned it off. I’d watched blade runner 2049 only a few days prior and that’s an absolute audio and visual treat on a decent system.
Shame on Disney. Improve your game.
I have a system 5.1.2 atmos and I have hooked up my rear speakers to the terminals labeled on avr "Surround" L and R on the back of it . and tow speaker on high roof for atmos ,
2 speaker front
1 center
2 speaker surround rear my seat
2 speaker top middle high
My question is that there are also terminals on avr for a "Surround Back" L and R as well. Do I have my speakers hooked up to the right terminals (or should I hook them up to the "Surround Back" terminals)? Which is better to deliver on the receiver surround or surround back / if you have tow speaker only for surrounded
I've got the same room setup. Just upgraded from a 10 year old Pioneer 820k 5.1 to LX305. Also adding 2 height speakers to my ceiling (haven't done that yet, waiting for the weather to warm up before I cut a hole). So I'll be at 5.1.2. My rear speakers are bi-pole and are against the back wall as is my couch. Thanks for the video!
I have a 7.2 layout and Atmos sounded bad Till I got towers for the back speakers and svs ultra surrounds for the sides. Upgrading the surround speakers to big quality speakers helped allot. I noticed wit Atmos every speaker is as important as your fronts. Sounds amazing now!!
Yes I just discovered this scenario. I recently upgraded my fronts and moved elac bookshelves to the rear or sides. I'm running a 5.1.4 and I can't put into words what it sounds like!. I was using outdated low grade speakers. I wonder if I replace my 4 height channels if I will get this much change in quality? They are small and lightweight. Always learning!
I’ve got a Marantz receiver in an L shaped room open to the dining room. The system allows for 7.2.2 Dolby Atmos, but I can’t put speakers in the ceiling. The sitting area is approximately in the room center. In the rear of the room the speakers all up high above cabinets. 2 subs left and right on the floor. The others at head height.
Should I be moving or replacing speakers? Changing the sound settings?
Techno dad I’m in the same viewing situation as you. My couch is up against the back wall due to room size and functionality constraints. After watching this though I’ve been pondering a way to incorporate a rear surround channel(s). I could at most move my seating row off the wall by 6”. What your opinion on placing a couple smaller speakers mounted on my rear wall just above headrests angled down slightly? Is this still too close? What are my options
Thanks
Greetings! I know this is an old video, but it just popped up in my feed. Not sure of your exact speaker placement restrictions, but would it be possible to aim those side surrounds at your back wall so the sound actually does come from behind the listening position, reflecting off the rear wall? If you have a sheetrock or smooth plaster rear wall behind the couch, reflecting sound off the rear wall should work pretty well. For pretty much all surround formats, if you have five ear level surround speakers, the surround speaker should be placed behind the listening position. If you listen to 7.1 channel native content (Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio), the rear and side surrounds are folded into the surround channels with the assumption that the speakers are behind the listening position. If you don't have a wall directly behind your couch (like if it's an open concept floor plan with another living space behind the couch), then another option might be putting the rear speakers on the ceiling on brackets (behind the couch) pointed directly at the listening position, but I don't know how comfortable you are with snaking more cables. As long as they're lower than your height channels and are pointed directly at the main listening position, this can also work pretty well.
Your idea of switching from an actual immersive soundtrack to a non-immersive track like DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD and using Auro for upmixing might seem like a good idea. And it may actually sound fine on some content. But you won't be getting the actual sounds that have been mixed for the height channels in the height speakers in Dolby Atmos, Auro 3D, DTS:X, IMAX Enhanced or 360 Reality Audio. All of the object based surround formats (DTS:X, Dolby Atmos, 360 Reality Audio, MPEG-H, IMAX) store sounds as objects with meta data used to define the sound's 3D position and motion through space. At playback time, the receiver or processor maps these sound objects into the specific channel configuration of your speakers so it can place all of these 3D sound objects in the appropriate locations in the room. This is how a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X mix can sound pretty good in 5.1.2, while sounding even better in 7.1.4. The extra speaker channels give the receiver more placement specificity - more precision in the 3D mapping of the sounds.
If you opt to use a non-immersive format like Dolby TrueHD instead, the receiver has no positioning meta data, so it has no idea that a helicopter (for example) was supposed to take off from the front, and fly overhead disappearing in the rear. Or that rain is supposed to actually fall from above the listening position. Or that the harmony/chorus vocals in Bohemian Rhapsody are supposed to come from the top right and left corners of the room. All of that height positioning information is lost. You can take that 2 dimensional non-immersive surround sound track and "upmix it" in DTS Neural:X, Dolby Surround or the Auro upmixer, in order to create sound from above, but this isn't actually restoring the height information. The processor is *guessing* which sounds should be placed into the height channels. It's a little like taking a CD, ripping it to 128K MP3, and then "restoring" it to a 44.1KHz/16 bit FLAC file. Technically, you have a 44.1K/16 bit digital file as the end product, but the information that was lost in compression is lost, and can't be recovered. When you opt to use a channel-based 2D surround sound format like Dolby TrueHD instead of a Dolby Atmos mix of the same content, you've lost the actual 3D positioning of sounds and that isn't something that can be recovered or accurately simulated.
Hope this makes sense and I hope you've found a speaker configuration that works for you. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks if you like how your system sounds to you.
I'm setting up a new HT setup and I'm deciding between aura 3D and Dolby Atmos setup. Which would you recommend and why? And is today's AVR upmixing to Aura 3D convincing? Thanks
Interesting topic. I have a maranta 6014 but running only a 5.1 setup. My room has limitations to have back surrounds as my couch is butt up the wall and I can’t place atmos speakers on the ceiling although Can have heights on the wall. I am looking to have at least a 5.1.2 setup so can get a basic atmos system setup, does it makes sense to have two atmos heights in front , will it make my setup better or it’s jus not going to cut it? What’s your suggestion and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks
Hi, thanks for the video. I need some help. I also have a 5.1.4 speakerset ( with the 4 ceilingspeakers) and my couch is also against the wall. Could you show me how did you set up ( small drawing) your room with the positioning of the speakers.
I have the same problem with my surroundspeakers standing next to the couch on earhights. Problem is my positioning of the 4 heightspeakers. Thanks
Thank for addressing this issue, i am struggling to get my back channels behind me, i have room for them above ear heights, any suggestion on this issue, since they are not to the side but instead up, im thinking the will project sound to front wall and then reflect so they are to be considered delayed fronts, which must be terrible. Will try auro 3d when i get new reciever
Awesome videos! I was always under the impression that if you don't have enough speakers on what the channel-based mix entails, then the AVR or processor would just downmix to your current speaker configuration. For example, if I'm watching a 7.1 True-HD Mix, and I only have a 3.1 system, then I was under the assumption that the Denon/Marantz AVR would just take the surround and back channel information and downmix them it to the 3.1 system. Therefore, I wouldn't be losing any audio information, I just wouldn't be hearing it from the correct locations they were intended to be heard from. Am I correct here or do I actually lose the sound information completely?
I think you are correct about your AVR downmixing. Maybe cheaper units don't downmix so they just omit the channels you don't have? In my case, part of the speaker calibration setup is to tell the unit which speakers I have. If I tell it I don't have a center speaker, it does NOT just delete that channel and you don't hear it; it mixes that audio into the other channels.
You are correct, Juan, you will not lose any of the sound information at all. Your AVR will downmix the sound to whatever you have. Naturally, if you don't have rear surrounds you will not hear sounds coming from behind you as convincingly as if you did have rear surrounds, but you will be able to hear those sounds from your side surrounds, and your side surrounds will image the rear sounds the best they can to give you the impression the sound is coming from behind you.
@@frankvee Frank, do the lower-end, "bottom of the line" units also downmix like this?
Thanks! Have 5.1.2 with Yamaha AVR that has virtual surround back mode. Does that help with producing surround back content?
Looking to pair the klipsch reference cinema system 5.1.4 dolby atmos with the Denon AVR-S760H 7.2-Channel Home Theater AV Receiver 8K Video Ultra HD 4K/120 that supports Dolby atmos will I be good to go with Dolby Atmos with the speakers ?
First off, your content is great, it tackles a lot of problems, others just scimp over. You go into details, without being to hairy about it. Im always looking forward for your new videos. Jeep up the good work.
I have a similary setup to yours, I have a pair of bipolar speakers at the side of my listening position, on the back wall, with one side facing me, and the other away. This difuses the sound somewhat, i also use the dsp vitual 7 channel option in my Sony DN1080, I know it isnt the Best, but it helps to be more spacious sounding.
I been on the Surround wagon from arround 2000, so tried some different things, but im no expert. But im at a place in the journey, where it fine enough I think 😁.
My setup is a front stage including a sub from System Audio, a Danish speaker brand. And my rear and rear heights are Gale. It does the job, and make movies great, and that is the most important thing. All in all be happy with what you have.
Hey loved the video, what demo disk did you get?
Check eBay for Dolby Atmos Demo Disc.
Thank you for the follow up video. Where did you get that Atmos demo disc?
I got one from eBay.
@technodad one question I have which I can’t find anything online to help with answering. For my surround speakers front side and rear I have different speakers some with only 2 way and some with 3 way. Which would benefit more the front surrounds, surround rear or surround back.. which will benefit from the 3 way and which is better for the 2 way ?
I have the 5.1.2 setup. Wiht a denon 3700. What happens when i listen to dolby hd/ dts master 7.1, using the options dolby atmos/D sur or dts neural x? Do i get the lost sounds of the speakers behind me that i dont have?
I also have my 5.1.4 setup in living room without the sofa against the walls. My living room is not a single room so it branches out to the dinning room, kitchen and living entry room. My side surrounds are behind my sofa angled at me in center. The sound setup seems to be correct hopefully. I don't think we all need to take speaker setups seriously because sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to make it work in limited room in homes. Most average joes will not spend more than 5k-10k on home theater setup in their living room. I think you already have a great setup and thanks for letting us know how to make it sound better. For 7.1.4 setup I do want rear surrounds but that is 2ft behind my head so is that bad?
I'm just now beginning my Atmos upgrade. I've been enjoying Dolby Digital & DTS since 2001. I'm a budget guy but have always been able to get good sound. The first thing I have noticed about the new surround sound is: I seem to enjoy the older stuff better & I don't like the up-mix. I prefer to turn on Pure Direct. It seems like we have added more speakers while, at the same time, tamped down all surround effects. I just can't seem to find great surround mixes anymore. The Flaming Lips put out 3 albums in 5.1 & Talking Heads released all 8 of their albums in 5.1 (these were all released during the gen 1). I still haven't heard anything since then that even comes close to what was achieved on these mixes. Especially The Flaming Lips albums. The worst part is, you just can't get these albums anymore. I'm lucky to own them. I think the next upgrade needs to be something in the way of programming our own surround mixes. If I could separate the tracks & place them where I want, I think I could make everything sound that good. We should just eliminate the need for surround mix engineering by creating a processor that can allow for this kind of customization. As it stands, surround sound isn't getting better, it's getting more watered down. Just like everything else.
I also have 5.1.2 System with a Marantz receiver that doesn't support auro-3d , the two atmos speakera are located on top of my Front L/R . Is there a way to improve the sound effects of atmos without drilling holes in the ceileing or upmix it somehow ?
I have a 7.1.4 with my listening position against a wall, I just mounted the rears against the wall and the sides more centred along the side, its not ideal but I like the sound I get from the Atmos mix
Hi Chana..
I do have the same setup like you. I too feel that some sounds are not played exactly they are supposed to do.. Thanks for the video.. You are my man you got the exact video which no one is thinking about..
Thank you for watching!
Does the same apply for non-Atmos set ups? Listening to an Atmos track down mixed to my 5.2.0. Sounds better than the 7.1 down mix.
Great follow up video, just a thought Would adding two speakers up above the Side surrounds angling down towards the main listening position assigned as the rear surrounds maybe make up for that effect? Even maybe have them angled downward slightly toed in towards the wall to reflect to the back of your head? And then the two Atmos speakers above in front of the main listening position assigned as atmos or height give you the correct sound? Just a thought!
Sounds like a decent plan as long as you have enough space for those channels to position as far back as possible. I'm not a big fan of reflected audio. I always seem to just hear the speaker where it actually is more then any kind of reflection. We all have to work with what we have though
Hi MASTER :
Thanks for all you video , I have Denon AVR -X 2400 I am very happy when this receiver .
This is my question ….. tho receiver work w/ 8 K tv? Thanks
I have a question I have a Yamaha A6 and a 5.2.4 height speakers …and on the AV receiver info screen it’s showing Dolby atmos/PCM os that what it should say? Or should I look for another setting? Thanks for any info you can provide. I’m using a Roku 4K that is comparable with Dolby Atmos
Does the distance between the Atmos overhead speakers can be 4.5ft or needs to be more? I really don't have too much space if I follow this recomendations. Please let me know. Thanks.
I have a question regarding atmos speaker placement. Does it matter if you choose front heights vs top heights? The reason I ask is because on my RZ50 I have height 2 speakers at top middle but for height 1 it won’t allow me to select top front aka ceiling speaker it only allows for front high. Does it really matter I have set up for front high even though they are actually top front ceiling speakers?
This was helpful for drawing attention to problem I have with back against wall, but was hopeful for simpler solution for us on a budget without pricey AVR and 5 ceiling speakers.
Would you cover using headphones for Dolby Atmos? I find many for gaming but little mention of the best headphones for listening to movies and music. I have tried high-end Bose and Sony and hear the Atmos effect but wondering if I am missing the best true atmos effect.
I been in the home theater hobby since 2000 with my first Sony receiver and yes, we are always learning.I been 2 years with a Denon receiver and I recently discover that changing from "Front Height" to " Top Middle" I can now listen to the info from " front Height" and " rear Height" downmix to the speakers.Another thing, can you test The heights channels in your new Pioneer receiver with any of the dsp modes like Action etc?
I'm confused...but aren't you now going have the behind sounds now coming from above at ceiling level? Or because it's speaker based that doesn't happen. I don't have this problem but would like to understand to help others that might. What setting are you changing on the AVR?
Great info
What your thoughts on connecting side surrounds from the av receiver but placing them in the back surround position
Maybe not placed directly behind but more corner position might sound better
Love ya T. D!! Mahalo for learning and helping us get though all this!! You are the BEST!!
Thank you for watching, Charles!
@@TechnoDad ALWAYS!!!
I have 5.1.4 running an arcam av40 , sitting about max. 0,5 meters away from the back wall my surround speakers are nearly at the corner , i thought when i setup to 5.x
X automaticly all sounds from back coming out on These two i have, so from 7.x.x all 4 surround channels are going to my two on my 5.x.x config. Im that wrong?
Thanks Channa for the videos. I have a very close set up to yours running a 5.2.4 set up and running my surround speakers on each side of my listening position. Previously had a 7.2.2 set up which now I’m regretting that I changed the configuration. What do you think of using the Dolby Surround or Neural X since you mentioned using Auro 3D ?
I am debating going back to a 7.2.2 set up and converting the rear height speakers back to surround back.
I would give it a try and see what you like and what sounds good to you.
@@TechnoDad I have tried both and I find pro’s and con’s about using the upmixer or staying with the format on the source. Being a purist….my mind always says I should be sticking to the original source coding.
Hi guys..I have a 5.2.2 with my height speakers right behind my coach pointing down obviously. I have my little satellites speakers turned sideways. Horizontal. I tried them both ways.(many times). And in my opinion they sound better that way. Plus I turned the height ones up a db or two and it makes a big difference to me. Just something to throw around s. Peace!
I am running a pioneer lsx vx504. I am set up for 5.1.4. For the life of me Im only getting 5.1.2. The amp in a sound set up fires all 5.1.4, but when I stream media, no dice. The amp states it is giving out 5.1.4 and atmos comes up on display. But my front ceiling speakers are off on the display and no sound comes out of them. I am using plex on a firestick 4k max. Any help?
I'm building a 5.1.4 atmos system, and my couch is up against the wall. where should I put my surround speakers?
Cool stuff, definitely learned a lot. I’m on the Atmos 5.1.2 and recognize the issue with my couch against the wall… only comments I get: to bad, maybe you should change your livingroom… So now I will ivestigate the Auro 3D upmixing route… starts with a receiver like a X4700 and extra heightspeakers?
I just purchased a Denon x4800h and looking at ditching my 7.1 setup because really the room layout for it is horrible. Would a 5.1.4 better solution with Auro 3D? Proper rear speakers is a no go and would have a better layout with them to the sides. I have 20' ceilings and would put the height channels towards the top of the wall.
As many others have commented, 7.1 content will down mix to 5.1 with NO loss of content.
This incidentally is why 5.1 surround speaker placement is about 110deg i.e roughly split the difference between sides and backs in a 7.1 setup. If you are experiencing channel loss, you perhaps have in the speaker setup of your AVR, forgotten to set ‘off’ or whatever your AVR terminology is for having no speakers in the surround back position.
This is what I thought also. No content loss . I have 7.2.4 Atmos , but many receivers are 5.2.4 , I am wondering how well they simulate the surround back channels. I will try my Yamaha RX -3070 , set it up on 5.2.4 and give it a try . I will also try a 7.2 , since Yamaha claims they can simulate height without the Atmos speakers (they call them presence speakers if are not placed in the ceiling-front height and rear height ) I am skeptical
HD Audio with CINEMA DSP 3D and Virtual Presence Speaker
CINEMA DSP 3D provides a wide, high and dense sound field. HD Audio format decoding lets you enjoy HD Audio sources. Virtual Presence Speaker delivers 3-dimensional sound without actual use of presence speakers.
Would spacing your couch about 4-5"s from the wall and acquiring a pair of low profile design full range speakers (possibly like a pair of center channel type speakers) and build some stands and mount facing vertical? Firing out from behind the couch? Just an idea that came to mind. 🤷🏻♂️
Can you use in wall speakers in the wall behind your head as you back speakers?
Hey Channah, I'm running a 5.2.4 system as well and this is what I did for my rears and I think it's worked out very well. I use bi-pole speakers placed in the corners of the room I sit slightly ahead of them at 110 degree angle and the wash sound down the front and side walls, the sound from the rears sounds like it's coming from 4 speakers, (technically correct) but you know what I mean.
Nice man! I love bi-poles. They work out so well as surround speakers.
William, I am also in a 5.2.4 setup, with my surrounds at 110 degrees. The surrounds face my main listening position. What do you mean by "and the wash sound down the front and side walls, the sound from the rears sounds like it's coming from 4 speakers"? Are you saying I should point my surrounds differently?
Great content as usual!
Many thanks for this video, it's completely changed my thought process in regards to my room setup. I've been going back and forth between the Sony HT-A9 for simplicity or proper discreet setup using an entry level kit like the Klipsch 5.1.4 kit with an AVR, but i'm in the same situation where my sofa is up against the wall, so i'm not really going to get the benefit of either system and might as well just get a soundbar to improve the general tv audio quality
Well...it is a bit of a strange situation. I don't think it will be bad per se, it's just not going to be optimal with the couch up against the wall. The AVR/Speakers route will sound the best, but if you don't want to bother, then the Sony HT-A9 will provide a good overall experience, but you will need the subwoofer, which then brings you into the AVR/Speakers setup.
According to your thorough explanation regarding the object based, personally, I have got the same room setup where I had to sit against the rear wall, I have got 5.1.2. setup. I remember somewhere Audioholics explained with the guy that mixed the ELP albums, CMIIW, that since the era of Front Height Channel, the object mixes would be put utilizing some coordinate between the centre and main front : then I put my height Channel at the front wall, facing to MLP, somewhere between Centre and Main Speakers, slightly above the screen. For the surround, I’d put it closer to the side walls (compared to the positions of the front mains) angled them to the centre of the room, somewhere above or below the position of the front height speakers (according how the ceiling can accommodate them), then put one or two 3D Diffuser panels at the rear, somewhere higher than the ear level and between the surround positions, plus one or two 2D Diffuser panels on each sidewalls between the main and surround channel of that sides, right after some absorption panel at the first reflecting zone of the main channel that affect the MLP on that wall. Cheers
I am in that situation because is the bedroom but I got the bed a foot out and got the smallest speakers I could find which I hate such speakers but with those little M1s now they about 4 inches behind me I known it's not the best but at least are behind me now and I can continue with the 7.2.4 I'm doing a compromise I wish I could put towers speakers everywhere but I can't for the back surround,now for all highest speakers what is large speakers I always wondered about this?
My surround speakers are flanking me due to the couch against wall issue but the couch has some thickness to it so the speakera are juat a bit to the back of the head. I am going to experiment turning the speaker at an angle to face the wall and see if that gives me a better effect. Anyone in my shoes with just a tiny bit of room whom maybe tried angling the surrounds toward the backwall hoping to get a bounce effect?
Star Trek 'Into The Darkness' intro,
is the only 4K-UHD ATMOS Disc that I use to calibrate all of the Dolby Atmos home theater systems that I install as it has the Best Mix of Treble, Surround, Height, and Bass sounds.
First off I love the content, always have. I'm literally in the exact same conflict right now. My couch is against the wall and I have a 5.2.2 system. My Atmos are in ceiling and I was wondering if I should put two more Atmos on the back wall pointing down kind of similar to yours. Did that make a difference?
Getting your couch off the back wall would be more beneficial for your listening then getting the extra height channels! Knowing I've got an audiophile grade atmos set up, I had to spend nearly £2,000 to get my rear Heights but it was only when I moved the couch an extra foot (2 ft total) from the back wall, was when I really experienced the best audio.
Here's a short 3-minute video of my small room setup...
th-cam.com/video/O_fp8aZiiSM/w-d-xo.html
@@totalplonker824 very nice I like your setup. Yeah that's pretty much about the space that I have but I do see that you have back Atmos speakers as well. I'll post a video on my TH-cam page when I get time and I'll let you know so you can see what I'm working with.
@@totalplonker824 here's the video of my setup. Any advice would be great! th-cam.com/video/49Z2owB_wFU/w-d-xo.html
@@darkashkev5461
Now that is what you call a home theatre screen 👍
first of all, are you able to place the centre channel on the top rack of the av stand without visual obstruction, if not at least get a wedge underneath the centre channel speaker (with blu-tack) so its pointing in the direction of your ears! As far as your rear Heights are concerned.. if you've already got a 9 Channel receiver, then I would utilise its fullest potential but just be aware if you do install rear Heights you're going to have to lower the surrounds to ear level, I had the same problem, here's another 3 minutes short video...
th-cam.com/video/xvdqI5qZa6g/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for posting the video! Wouldn't it be great if anyone posted their setups 😁
@@totalplonker824 yeah that Center channel is too big to set on the top I'm looking at a different stand for that. You probably can't see it in the video but it is actually pointed up at my listening position. If I went ahead and move it to my chair out about a foot. Then moved the surround sound speakers on stands could I do in walls as my back Channel and then put ceiling speakers on the back as well. I do have a Denon 4700h so I have the capabilities of adding two more sets of speakers. Let me know your thoughts
I am always playing with the Atmos settings on my avr as my 2 height speakers are on my sidewall, about 6 feet up, and pointing down at my listening position.
There are 2 settings on my avr that are close to what I have. Front height and mid height.
Going by the graphics on my avr's settings, the mid height looks more like my setup.
I dont really hear any difference between the 2 but I'm a knit picker and am always in the settings changing and tweaking things.
I think when I upgrade to a 5.1.4 it will be easier to setup but that won't be for a while as a good 9 channel receiver is not in my price range right now.
Also my avr is a 2017 model (1st gen atmos) and I believe newer avrs have more dynamic atmos.
Your videos are awesome and I always learn something, looking forward to your next video
I am sitting against the wall. I would like to upgrade my 5.1 system to atmos. Should I get 5.1.4 or just 5.1.2 because rear hight speakers won’t be rear, but above me. Will this make movies better or even worse because of wrong location of the sound.
So I just saw this video for the first time and I have to say, there is another thing that happens in channel based set ups to simulate sound from a certain space in your area, and it’s to emit a certain amount of sound out of two speakers in space to try and make it sound like it’s coming from in between them, this can happen a lot with only having 5.1 and the sounds you need from behind, I used to have only 5.1 and even with them places not behind me but beside me, the processor would use the amount of sound pumped from them at the same time to simulate sound from behind, of course it’s not AS accurate as having the surround back speakers but I have had it seem like it was behind me through that technique
Is there a way you can demo the SVS ultra surrounds in duet mode to reflect the rears off the wall behind you? I have the same setup and contemplating this route but never heard anyone talk about splitting this speaker into two
Hi channa d
If I don't have a avr with auro 3d, then what to optimise listening with 5.1.2 or 5.1.4
Quick question I have 5.1.4 surround sound set up. Will Emotiva BasX A7 work.
I have a Denon 4800h with a 5.2.4 setup and my first 5 are standard and 4 overhead but I've been curious if my rear heights would be better as back surround , dolby sp ,or keep it as I have it setup as rear heights? Keep in Mind my seating position is against the wall like yours. Let me know what you think. Mind my new denon 4800h can do auro 3d , auro 2d ..etc . I do like how my Neural X sound , I think it sounds better than Atmos . I'm open for thoughts and opinion Techno Dad.
Hi channa d
If I watch 90 % movies on OTT Netflix Amazon prime etc, their audio quality over the internet is seriously compressed,isn't it, because of internet bandwidth I beleive. Also they broadcast most content in Dolby digital or 5.1 mode most of the time ,isn't it?
Please correct me if i am wrong
So if it's true what i said, then which Atmos speakers configuration is most appropriate for building my future home theatre?
Pls advise
Not sure how I didn't see this channel before, great video !
Hey, thanks!
My room is:
5.7m long (Sitting at 4.7m from the front)
3.72m wide (Speakers 3.3m L to R a bit back)
2.7m high Sealing
Wanne go 5.1.4
*1m back / 1.65m to each side / at 2.45m (on the backwall above a window aiming at me)
=>H2-L & R [Back height speakers]
* 1.7m or 1.6m Front / 1.65m to each side / at 2.6m (10cm of the sealing aiming at me)
=> H1-L & R
* Rest 1.2m high at 5.1 setup (What i use now)
Would this be ok?
Would be using a DENON AVR-X3800H
I bought a new Dolby atmos vizio 5.1 surround system a few months ago, & I would like to know if you need dolby atmos content to experience it ? I do have premium Netflix & they don't have to many movies in atmos, is their any other atmos content available ? Thx...
What if you’re running a 5.1.4 setup with front and rear heights? Surrounds are on the sides of the main listening area. Both front and rear heights are angled towards the main listening area.
Whenever I want to hear sound coming from all speakers. My current set up is 7.2.4n I just set my X4700h to multi channel stereo lol. When my Apple tv4k movies come in Atmos my Denon switches. Sometimes I chose Multichannel Stereo over Dolby.
I hope someone can help me out here. I watch most of my movies on Apple TV where most of the content are Dolby Atmos ontop of a Dolby Digital 5.1 mix. What happens if I were to play it in like a 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 atmos soundbar? Will it just upmix it to work on all my speakers?
Where did you get "the dude" wall art? I've been searching and searching but I cannot find that print. Keep up the great work/videos, I've learned a great deal about Dolby Atmos from you!
Hi! That's a painting our friend did a while back. Thank you so much for watching!
Well I'm using the Sony str dn 1080 with my rear speakers to the sides but I'm also using the phantom back channels and it works a treat. It is set up in a 7.1.2 config and you really can hear things directly behind you. I tried it with startrek into darkness when the enterprise comes out of the water it sounds like it's right behind you then lifts out and flies up into the height channels then the front. Great processing from the amp
The Star Trek 'Into The Darkness' 4K-UHD intro, is the only ATMOS Disc that I use to calibrate all of the home theater systems that I install as it has the Best Mix of Treble, Surround, Height, and Bass sounds.
for me useing two stereo speakers with voicemeeter as a 5.1 i have the same issue i have one speaker in front of me one behind me (not to the side of me fully behind my head) windows sees my rear channles as side channles so any audio that comes from my rear channles is then mixed to my sides for movies and tv but in games i tested and sounds comeing from behind me i still hear behind me sounds comeing from my surround left and right comes from the speaker in front of me or uses both the front left and surround left together to create the effect of a surround i found this only in garrys mod for the most part and games that support 5.1 work normally any game with atmos is mixed to 5.1 thru atmos but i dont have atmos home theatre setup i assume thats just the decoder used for atmos games in general despite configureation i am thinking about makeing windows think its a 7.1 system and just not have side channles tho
i have the denon x4400h and i have it setup 5.1.2 and using the dolby test files when the sound plays the side surround the denon plays the front and surround and when it plays the surround back it plays my surround.
I am in the same boat, I have a small space, couch against a wall, and no other option for a different arrangement. I have an old 90s Dolby ProLogic2 reciever that is on its way out, and a 5.1 Bose speaker setup...
It has been OK for movies, but definitely could be better, and it sounds pretty rubbish for music. I've been looking to get a new AVR and then some different speakers for over a year now, amd am trying to decide if I should even try for 7.x.x , or 5.x.x, or just go with a better 5.1 setup. I may start with just 5.1, with a modern AVR, and then test out some rear height speakers, or armor speakers on the ceiling , and see if it is worth the upgrade to 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 ... I might buy a 9 or 11 channel unit ,for other features, as I want a zone 2 for outdoor speakers, a second HDMI out for a second screen for times like when we have people over for football or other such occasions...
I wish there was an easier way to figure out what is best in my space before just buying things...anything modern will be an upgrade though. Thanks for what u do trying to help us all learn and make good purchases. Cheers.
@technodad!! Can you run a set of smaller in or on-wall speakers directly behind the couch? That is honestly the best way to get those “point sources“ of sound back into your room. Since it’s so close to your listening position, you also don’t need the typical huge diameter drivers (just set a crossover to 150 Hz or so for those rear channels). Also in a pinch, if there is a triangle of space behind your couch, or you have the ability to move your couch six or so inches off of the wall, you can either put the speakers built into a small “console“ table top right behind the couch, or just lay them on the floor (it sounds like a terrible idea, but in reality, when only let’s say 1 to 5% of the movies sounds are coming from those surround back speakers, there’s more value in getting the sound “out“ of the system compared to it being perfectly at ear level and/or direct line of sight to your ears. Try these last two ideas with a cheap set of throwaway speakers you may have around the house and see how you like it!! (You can use anything like and old set of Bose cube speakers, gallo acoustics micro, or elipson 4” models)
Very interested to hear how this works out if you try it!!
Cheers
-J
I have 5. 1. 4 mine are limited as well, as my Lounge is up against the wall and I have my Atmos speakers mounted high on the wall pointing down at rear and front tilted down , using
A laser pointer to aim the speakers, but I never
Hear from the Atmos front speakers even turned up all the way or even with Auro 3-d
But what happens with an approach like Sony's new HT-A9 with 4.0.1 and the whole Dolby Atmos synthesised by their proprietary '360 Spatial Sound Mapping'?
I was not aware of alot of this when I wired my 5.1.2. I've been learning from your last 2 vids.
Although similar setup to yours, mu couchbis against a half wall with another half of a room behind. No place for war level rears, but curious about trying angled in ceiling just tor rears
Please let me know how you like the current 5.1.2 setup. Where are you 2 height channels located compared to your couch? Do you think the extra 2 speakers for atmos have made it a lot better?
I am upgrading from an old 5.1 system, very old actually, 90's Dolby Pro Logic reciever...and I can't decide what to get other than knowing it will be a Denon AVR and either Polk or Klipsch speakers...
@@isaiahfurrow7414 honestly if my room was able, I would've went to 7.1 instead. I mean some effects are ok and cool, but there isnt a ton of really good atmos movie content. The music content is ok. But now I'm working on figuring out a way to do rear surrounds instead of adding g 2 more height channels
Channa, did you not use something like Audyssey when setting up your upstairs home theater? If so, surely that should have detected that you have no back surround speakers but only side rear surround speakers and therefore know which parts of the 5.1 and 7.1 audio tracks to feed those speakers so everything sounds as it should?
Yeah, the AVR knows there’s no surround back, but it still thinks the surrounds are behind my MLP.
I have a really similar set up to you, currently 5.1 but I’m going to add two higher Channels when I can. My opinion is my set up sounds AMAZING I’m sure others sound better than mine but when I sit down and watch a movie I just enjoy it! As for sounds coming from “the wrong place” I’d far rather hear those sound effects in the wrong place than not hear them at all
I have the 7.2.2 setup and yes my surrounds are on the sides but I put my chair about a foot from the back wall. Cant put a speaker back there but it makes back surrounds a little more recessed. Im running a yamaha 2080 and when I run the test tones it puts the sound in speakers with no surround and back surround blend.Content sounds great.
So i do have a 5.1.2 setup. I don’t have the best room for this, i live in a single wide trailer so my living room shares with my kitchen, but i have my atmos speakers above my tv fireing out like the wall of sound and i like it alot like that and my rear surround are put up on the wall at 7feet in the air i have 8 foot ceilings and there put as if they were flanking my left and right, and i use the klipsch 500sa and from how i can hear it. Thos do a pretty good placement wise that i feel like i would hear objects coming from behind me to the front. I don’t want them too far back because then it would be fireing on the kitchen and I don’t need that. But it’s the best placement i have to get the best surround sound experience at home. Just my thoughts and experience on this and I’m hoping i can get a bigger place soon to correct this and add further channels to the setup.
Am I really missing out not having atmos in my 7.1 system. Do the over head channels really make a big difference. Cost wise.
Thx for your informative videos.
I smell what you’re cooking Channa… I have learned so much from watching the past two videos that you did on this subject and reading these comment sections. This is awesome, LOVE your work my friend… BOOM!!
So my sound is doom, because i have the same set up and also i can't put ceilling speakers. So my setting is a 5.1.2 and i won't ear specials surronding sounds or any real Atmos. Thanks for the infos.
I have an open ended cube of about 10 feet or so. If it's not against a wall, it doesn't fit.
I went with OHMs up front since they are compatiable with wall settings. I used Mirage Nanostats since they are both tiny and omni-directional for the assorted available placements. Placement is everything when you are in a box.
I admire those who can take a speaker and place it correctly. Far away from walls and in an 'infinite' spatial zone.
I have a 5.1.4 with couch on back wall so the question is can I make 2 over head speakers that are closest to back wall the surround back speakers and then ideally install another 2 overhead speakers closer to screen for a 7.1.4 system?
That’s a tough one. I’ve seen people do it but I wouldn’t know how that would affect the sound with those speakers being closer in proximity.
Great video - great question posed too - tbh Iv been focused on the speakers in front of me, two subs and the speakers in my ceiling to try and get the best sound possible for my room because my room limits where my back surrounds go - I can’t really do anything else but upon posing the question the rear sound is most likely the weak point in many systems if it’s a case like mine with my room wall boundaries etc etc
I've got a couch that's just a few inches off the wall. My speakers are mounted to the wall but actually right at 90°. I just had a thought for adding the 2 rear surrounds. What about placing them behind the couch just below the edge and squeezed more to the center?
That's a possibility, but it might be kind of tight.
This is a very interesting video tutorial.. I'll have to test this TrueHD upmixed to Auro3D and verify your findings good sir. Thanks for the assignment! 😊
Let me know how it goes, Mark!
Hi, Just found this video. I have a 12 x 12 ft. room with a window on one side(2nd floor). I really didn't want to hear back sound from the side as well. My solution? I bot a long live edge table, moved the couch forward and put them behind. It also helps the angle for the height speakers. (SVS primes). Your video helped me decide on these.
Next problem. Fitting a 100 inch screen on wall the same size wall. Need room for the height speakers on the top of the wall, towers on the side and a low bureau for the UST projector. That's for next year.
Thanks for your videos, keep them coming!!
Dave
Which of these multi channel technologies do the best job with music? If you can answer, could you include Yamaha Presence as a comparison. I would love a video on this topic if possible. Last time I invested in surround was a couple years ago, and for t=me the sweet spot was DSX Wide. I went with an Onkyp 3007 and 9.2, I'm still pretty happy with it, but I'm not sure how much life the Onkyo has left in it. I think High end Denon is the spiritual successor here, but I'm willing to experiment elsewhere. New Sony, Yamaha etc.
This is a great video I'm using the denon 760h I have 5 speakers 2 subwoff and 2 atmos speakers you just solved a problem for me....
Are you going to buy me a new house so I can add more speakers? Oh no you are not. Okay maybe can we just stop all the stupid comments about how I don't have a proper room set up. Oh yeah don't forget to subscribe. 😅🤣😭. Love you Channa. Even more after this video.
I am adding two in ceiling speakers soon along with an Anthem AVR. In my current 5.1 I do not really feel I am missing anything, other than sound from the ceiling. I am ok with a 5.1.2 set up. The room is just too small otherwise.
Question. I have a similar set up with my listing position being next to the wall. I currently have a 5.1.4 set up. However, my rear two Atmos speakers are on the ceiling right above the listening position. Would it be better to change to a 7.1.2? use the two rear Atmos speakers as rear channels? Please excuse my ignorance.
I'm on the same boat , same situation what do you think
I have a 5.2.4 system with my main listening position up against the wall and rear surround on the side as you described. I always suspected that this was happening… But there are no solutions for my current setup so I deal. Sadly the x3600h doesn’t do Auro 3D do compensate.