Patriarch Kirill of MP stating that Orthodox Christians share "the same God as Moslems" and various priests saying there can be a "good ecumenism" made me realize that the heresy of ecumenism is more rampant than I imagined. Pray that I receive a corrective baptism into GOC.
Thanks be to God this is to be continued, i was baptized and chrismated as an adult into a new calendar church and have only recently even become aware of the GOC, the nearest GOC church is two hours away from me, i have a lot of questions and am looking forward to more information from Metropolitan Demetrius, thank you and God Bless!
@@godsaveus4380Yes, but to be fair it was the opposite with Saint Joseph. I’m not denying that God was acting in either case, as different things are called for different people…
I think that it takes so much energy just to work on our own wretched souls then to worry about the politics/heresies/dissensions/etc around us.. let us be alert,aware& vigilant(Εγρήγορση) but mostly let us pray to God for discernment🙏🏻☦️ Αμήν νάνε ευλογημένο
As you may have noticed, most of the time our Geronta speaks about spiritual matters. But too many people are asking questions, and he does have the responsibility to uphold the faith, and to defend it from heresy, apostasy, and lies.
Aw! Some people feel there is way bigger matters to address. Some people feel this is very important. However, there is the tool of discernment God gives to all who seek Him. This is jot a rigid gift. It moves where God's hand places it to address the workings of good and workings of bad. The church calendar may seem trivial, but-- we must not ignore the big workings evil seeds within the "trivial". Ive noticed in my aging years, how the trivial is muchly used by evil to hide behind as it works maliciously bc it knows that some of us prefer to ignore it. As evil works it's evils behind the trivial, not all of us are blind. We see it's hands lighting small fires of hostility between Believers.. and we know that small fires tend to turn into bonfires.. So, be careful with ignoring the trivial bc it is trivial. God is a man of war. Our avenger. Our Peace. Comfort. Strength. Joy. Truth. Power over all evil. Greater is HE that is in us than it that is in the world!!!!! 🌷🕊🕊🌷
The way that I've heard modernist jurisdictions justify accepting St John Maximovitch as a saint now, is that they invent a new kind of distinction about grace, between canonical grace and charismatic grace. They say that St John has charismatic grace, but no canonical grace - so they say they can accept that he was a personally holy man, but not that he had any canonical standing. However, this makes no sense if you take into account a particular miracle in St John Maximovitch's life, where while he was still alive, a particular sick woman prayed to him to help her, and so what he did was walk through the walls of the locked hospital, to give her holy communion that he had consecrated. You need to be an actual, real, canonical bishop to do sacraments. Even if we grant their idea that St John Maximovitch had the "charismatic" grace to walk through walls, only true clergy can perform the sacraments. If he had charismatic grace, but no canonical grace, then this miracle makes no sense - why would God allow a schismatic non-bishop to walk through walls to give a sick woman a false holy communion?
The church has suffered so much persecution to keep the faith, thank you our beloved Saints pray for us🙏🥰they have a problem because they are children of darkness not light 🙏🥰
I am a former Roman Catholic but left and will be attending the divine liturgy at a rocor parish 2 hours away. I sincerely believe the Eastern Orthodox church is the truth faith. But I am confused on where to go but I do know that my family and I need to be baptized....and be received into the church. But I come across alot of divisions which is confusing for someone just learning. So I ask for prayers
@@arliemariafrom the creed, the symbol of orthodox faith: "In One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church - I confess one baptism" Everyone needs to be baptized if possible. No excuses if it is possible
@@arliemaria Where did you get that understanding if you do not mind me asking? Would it be just RC churches or any baptism this is all confusing to me with the many recent changes. Thank you in advance
Your Eminence, Due to my lack of understanding and experience, I’ve been very confused about this topic. I was received through ROCOR-MP two years ago, and, during this time, have been making pilgrimages to monasteries in the US. I’ve been struggling against my passions, under guidance with my priest, and have received his blessing to pursue the monastic life. I won’t go into detail here about the strange things I’ve noticed at some of the monasteries but I will say, St. Anthony’s, where Elder Ephraim’s tomb is located, has been the only monastery, which I have visited, that I felt fully comfortable at. As of now, I am under guidance of the Elder to remain in the world temporarily, and pay off some small momentary debts before I begin a monastic vocation at any monastery. Considering I am not a novice, I’m still discerning what monastery I feel comfortable with to live out a life in repentance. If it’s Gods will, I will still be making pilgrimages to other monasteries to be absolutely certain this is Gods will. My question’s are more than a few, and I would be very grateful to hear your response(s): Does the GOC believe there is grace within the ROCOR-MP? (an example being the Jordanville monastery) Do you know of any ROCOR-MP bishops that recognize there’s grace within the GOC? If so, may we know which bishop? Does the GOC recognize a sanctity of life in Elder Ephraim of Arizona & Philotheou? If so, then would it not logically conclude the GOC recognizes grace even in GOARCH? If my logic is incorrect about this, how? And please help me understand. Does the GOC recognize the Sanctity of St. Joseph the Hesychast? If so, does this not logically follow that the GOC recognizes grace within even in the EP? If this does not logically follow, how so? If the GOC does not recognize the sanctity of either, why? And why mention Elder Ephraim if it is the case the GOC does not recognize his sanctity, and his spiritual fathers (St. Joseph) sanctity? I have more questions, forgive me.. but I will leave it at this for now. Maybe we will have a discussion that follows in the comments below. In Christ, Matthew
There are too many questions here to be answered on TH-cam. You should email your questions to His Eminence, or better yet, see him in person. His address is gocofamerica@gmail.com
Amén 🙏 Thank you your Eminence! What one supposed to do if there is no Authentic an not heretic Orthodox Church in his city? What is the Orthodoxy of the heart that you mentioned in your lecture? I dream one day there will be a Zar again and He'll be a saint and from Russia will come a new start of Christianity 🙌🕯️☦️
It should be obvious from what His Eminence says that we are not in Communion with ROCOR-MP -- but we are in Communion with the remnant of ROCOR that did not go along with the union. We can hope for a miracle. The Moscow Patriarchate needs to repent of the heresies of Ecumenism and Sergianism as "Old-ROCOR" expected them to. Vladika Averky is the one that said that we need to use the term "True Orthodox" to distinguish between us and the Ecumenists.
Provocative and unfair in what way? For someone with genuine concern this is a legitimate question that deserves a direct response. No beating around the bush….
Prayerful Greetings Bp.Demetrius, It's very praiseworthy and selfless of you to dedicate time from your overwhelming schedule as both Abbot and Hierarch for this most worthy cause in helping out convert Clergymen and those faithful under their guidance in better understanding of both the traditional Rocor and likewise the Old Calendar connection. I would just have to add to your statement about both the Patriarchate's of Jerusalem and Serbia stopping recognition / communion with Rocor. The Patriarchate of Serbia and Rocor were always communion officially, while in Jerusalem - the Monasteries/Convent's always both served upon the antimens and always Liturgically commemorated the Patriarchate of Jerusalem; Rocor Clergymen were recognized but due to administrative red-tape ( Moscow Patriarchate ) they couldn't serve at the Holy Sepulchre. Here is an excerpt of a letter sent by Patriarchate Pavle of Serbia to the IV all diaspora council in San Francisco. "Nonwithstanding the tremendous trials and catastrophes which befell the Serbian Orthodox Church in the XX century - we have in mind the 50-year godless communist yoke in Yugoslavia - the Serbian Church's ecclesiastical and Eucharistic ties with both the persecuted and suffering Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Church diaspora, which temporarily suspended Eucharistic communion with the Church in Russia, never ceased till this day. Thus, by God's Providence, the Serbian Church is the only one of the Local Orthodox Churches which has maintained unbroken, direct and deep ties with the fullness of the Russian Church". synod.com/synod/eng2006/5enprivetstviyepp.html
That's all true except for one piece of important information. On the ROCOR side, there was a break in Communion with the Serbs by many ROCOR bishops. Metropolitan Philaret and his bishops did not concelebrate with Serbian bishops. We have seen no such photographs. We know that there were some Vespers services together. The only time was when Metropolitan Amphilohios served just before the union with Moscow.
@@godsaveus4380 absolutely wrong on your part. You may have your own opinion but you aren’t entitled to your own facts and truth. I’ll just list a few examples, and if you’d like to do some research you’ll find plenty more. Do you know who was the main character in pushing the synod of bishops to speed up the investigation and eventual canonization of Saint John of Shanghai ? Metropolitan Mark of Berlin ( consecrated Bishop in 1982 - meaning He was an active participant in the Synod of Bishops for the 1983 Anathema against ecumenism ) in His own words had the blessing of the Serbian patriarch at that time ( Patriarch German ) to freely serve in Serbia and concelebrate whenever He was in Serbia without needing any prior consent of the Patriarch which He continues to this day. ArchBishop Hilarion ( +2022 ) as the Bishop of the Australian diocese concelebrated with Patriarch Pavle ( + 2009 ) when the Patriarch visited Australia in the late 20th century. For the feast of Saint John of Shanghai and SF , the 5th year after His canonization, Schema-Archbishop Anthony of SF ( +2000 ) hosted and concelebrated with the Serbian Bishops, John of Western America and Longin. The persecuted and much suffering Schema-Archimandrite Panteleimon (+2016) and His holy brotherhood of the Transfiguration of our Lord, in their official letter to Metropolitan Vitaly (+2006) state their canonical reasons for leaving the Church Abroad, one being the recognition and communion with the Hierarchy of the Belgrade Patriarchate ( Serbia ) excluding Metropolitan Christopher (+2010) “ who held joint prayers with some women “pastor “. Do keep in mind that Archbishop Tikhon of SF, Saint John of SF, Schema-Archbishops Anthony of LA and Anthony of SF all came from the same brotherhood in Serbia, while ArchBishop Anthony of Geneva likewise came from a monastery close by called Tuman. Bishop Sava ( +1970 or 1973 ) was the Spiritual Child of the Hieromartyr Saint Nikolai of Ohrid and Zicha (+1956). That is why the Sobor of Bishops ( Top secret ) document was never in full affect, besides being anti/patristic. If you are going to sever communion then you openly as a Church announce it, such as the True Church of Greece and Cyprus under the Presidency of Schema-Archbishop Andrew (+2005) did with Rocor in 1975 , and Rocor did with the resisters-groups in 2007. May all the Saints of Athos / and those who celebrate according to the Russian typikon all Saints of Russia prayerfully intercede for us all.
@@fr.averky7970In Metropolitan Vitaly's Nativity Encyclical of 1986, he says that if any hierarch of ROCOR had concelebrated with Ecumenists it was by Economia and it was not the official policy of ROCOR. After the Anathema of 1983, the majority of bishops would not even concelebrate with Serbs. Perhaps after Metropolitan Philaret's righteous repose, things got lax again.
I have a question. So.. Its said that sts. John Maximovitch and Philaret of NY were GOC. But i saw few days ago old footage (i can send you the link), when they were very old (especially st. John Maximovitch, at one ROCOR church in California, 1965, blessing new cupola. So they were not GOC then because this church is Rocor.
Christ is Risen! No, St. John was not under GOC, but he supported and prayed with the GOC. He was connected with the GOC. The GOC itself stems from ROCOR.
@@OrthodoxTradition Alithos anesti! :) i apologize for not greeting you.. I understand now. I heard from some GOC people that he was in GOC. Thank you for the information! In Christ +
Please would you explain in simple layman's terms why the churches (without a council) thought to follow the schismatic calendar? The new calendar is followed until the time of Great Lent and Pascha, then it is old? The WEST is in Schism and are anaxios ... not the ones who follow the old calendar. It has troubled me since just after I was received in 1996, that I've watched the Ecumenical Pat, Bartholomew cosying up to Rome rather then his brother bishops in other jurisdictions. Behaving like a pope - not a Patriarch. May God help, see and judge, and have mercy upon me, the sinner.
Rome is full of black magic. Look at the Obelisks at the Vatican. This is Egyptian Black Magick. Rome is damned. Why bother with them? Individual RC Priests are not really part of this and often do not understand it. We do not need Rome and Pharaoh/Fallen Angels who run Geneva. This is Lucifer. God help us all.
Metropolitan Demitri.....I like your statement of one using " critical thinking", and individual intelligence as a "Rational Sheep in the Flock of Christ". This is a good sounding board and intelligible tool , that the Orthodox Church prescribes for each her baptized servants to develope within their scope of practice. This is a skill that enables one to prayerfully arm onesself against delusional and wrong views. We Orthodox, are part and parcel within the rational body of Christ....morals, ethics, right behavior go hand in hand with right Christian Orthodoxy views...but....one can not falsely , or mentality rest their consciousness in thinking that they are anchored into right Orthodox " belief and body" , and then make excuses that "personal sins" are to be considered mere pot-holes on the road to salvation, or to consider themselves to be outside of the scope of intelligent judgements from other members of the community, for the sake of preservation of the institution over the individual... How many so-called Right believing Orthodox monastics have we seen in the last decades, behaving like moral degenerative, abusive scumbags , and then continued to proclaim that they were covered in salvation because of mere true-Orthodox Ecclesia beliefs! CULTS ALWAYS have the prescription for it's neophyte members: "You no longer need to think for yourself, but rather, from now on, we ...the supreme leaders will do the thinking for you!!!,...just surrender to our bogus authorities , and we will make your life perfect. Unfortunately, those who surrender their intelligence to demonic personalities , end up being destroyed spiritually and materially. Vinegar looks like Wine, but taste like poison...pure spiritual milk touched by the lips of a serpent is always poisonous to those that partake there of. May our journey go well as we walk in Christ! As I remember you from your youthful sincere devotional attitude as a kid...I think you grew well into your spiritual adulthood....Amen.
Unfortunately, many who say "at least I'm Orthodox" end up being schismatics or heretics. Orthodoxy of life goes hand in hand with sanctification. The whole point is that we must be Orthodox to become sanctified. What's Orthodoxy without sanctification?
@@OrthodoxTradition Well.....let's hope that the mercy of Christ will expand the sanctifiion of the Traditional Church to more cities. Most in the USA have to rest in Economia and form even to preserve what they have in their Church lives.
By God’s grace I have been Orthodox for many years. My church was with ROCOR for many years until we joined with GOC. I remember very well how ROCOR said that we were one in mind and faith with the Greek old Calender church of Met. Cyprian. Then, virtually over night they made a U turn, changed and abandoned GOC! A true stab in the back. But this of course was politically expedient for them. How sad their raison d’etre changed from the Kingdom of God to to the earthly kingdom of man. ☦️☦️☦️
@@byzpaints Prayerful greetings, actually it was 2014 after the repose of Bp. Cyprian. Now the Romanian True Orthodox have anathematized both the teachings of the late Cyprian and Cyprian himself as a heresy widely known as Cyprianism. The Romanian’s have severed communion with the group under Bp. Kallinikos until they receive a Orthodox confession regarding both Cyprianism and the schismatic new calendar. If the late Leonty of Chili (+1972) didn’t uncanonically meddle in the affairs of the True Orthodox Church’s we certainly wouldn’t be in this predicament today where the laity have been suffering for the last past 60+ years, not knowing where the True Church is or what it is, thus giving the ripe opportunity for the new so called “apostles of America,, new calendarist to suck the meek faithful into their schismatic vacuum of apostasy from the True Church and the teachings of the Holy Church Fathers. May God grant us all wisdom.
What is the "Cyprianite" heresy and how does it differ from ROCOR ecclesiology? Cyprian basically followed the line of Metropolitan Chrysostomos, while the rest of his main group of followers were influenced by the Matthewite ecclesiology. Matthewites kept trickling in. Plus, the Romanians had a "worse" history. They were formally in Communion with the present day Metropolitan Onouphry of Kiev, until Metropolitan Hilarion of ROCOR found out and complained to them. The "Cyprianites" also complained! It stopped in the 90's.
@@godsaveus4380 well said brother. Met. Cyprian was a brother of one mind and heart one minute, then, when his and his synods faith and confession had not changed in the least, he suddenly became a heretic! What total nonsense and shame on them. ☦️☦️☦️
My personal opinion is that the issue with Met Cyprian is actually that he refused to be under the authority of any synod. He was defrocked by both the Greek Church and the GOC…
So is Putin Orthodox or not? Why did ROCOR find reunion with the ROC? I'm asking because I've been converting from traditional Roman Catholicism (pre-Vatican II) to ROCOR.
I saw this week that Patriarch Kirill now accepts "theistic evolution." Is this possible? This idea comes from Teilhard de Chardin, a Catholic theologian who even Catholics know to be a heretic. In Teilhardism and the New Religion Wolfgang Smith (mathematics professor and philosopher) utterly destroys the possibility of reconciling evolution with theism (though the Vatican now accepts it). I've been drawn away from Catholicism to Orthodoxy and now find this? For those who cannot study this issue in detail remember that evolution requires succeeding generations to "evolve" over millions (or billions) of years. Since the sin of Adam brought death into the world how could death and successive generations have occurred prior to that time? hardin
Join the GOC under Metropolitan Demetrius. We have not changed and still hold to ROCOR's position regarding the Moscow Patriarchate. Let the Patriarchate of Moscow accept St. John Maximovitch's four stipulations for unity, and then we can all be united.
I'm going to rocor and the Georgian old calendar churches I avoid the modernist districts and I have sympathy for the Greek old calendarists or the genuine Orthodox I can't say they don't have grace in the modernist churches but it confuses me any goc willing to answer questions for me?
@@OrthodoxTradition I'm a catechumen at a rocor parish in Oklahoma and a Georgian Orthodox monestary near me(thank God) what could I read to get a better understanding of the goc, the schism between the rocor and oca recent Orthodox history
Thank you Your Eminence. Today, the loyal Old-ROCOR is the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCA) that was formed in 1920 by bishops who were forced to leave their homeland along with millions of Russian people, all fleeing the horrors of the communist system. The ROCA bishops, clergy, and laity remain loyal to the original mission of an independent ROCA. We are not in Eucharistic communion with the Moscow Patriarchate (MP), the state-controlled official Russian Church. The Moscow Patriarchate (MP) and the current ROCOR (MP) need to repent of the heresies of Ecumenism and Sergianism. The Churches of the ROCA remnant (the part of ROCOR that did not go along with the union with the MP in 2007) are present today in the Diaspora District of ROCA. The list of Parishes is present on the rocana and auroca web sites. The ROCA Churches are located in Australia, New Zealand, St. Petersburg, as well as in the U.S. and Canada. Despite protests from within the ranks of bishops, clergy, and laypeople, on May 17, 2007, a large part of the ROCA entered into Eucharistic communion with the MP with the signing of the “Act of Canonical Communion” and is now known as the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR - MP). A smaller part chose to remain loyal to the historical Russian Orthodox Church and continue the mission of the ROCA. ---------
If the clergy don't concelebrate, the people who do, apart from their respective hierarchs, do so illicitly. This is an unfortunate situation. LET NOTHING BE DONE APART FROM THE BISHOP. Further, and I say this humbly, as i understand the Canons in a case such as that of ROCOR's inception, it is forbidden for the Bishop to abandon his diocese and flee into exile (unless he was forcibly expelled by the government). The bishop may not abandon his flock and claim to be HOLY in so doing. It is tantamount to abandoning your sheep to the wolves. I understand the complexity of this situation in the face of modern day tyranny and Communism but the bishop may not abandon his post. You remain with your lambs to the end. THAT is the superior witness and there can be no other. When our Lord was abandoned at the cross, it was the witness of the WOMEN that was superior. May the Lord have mercy on us all and heal the divisions of the Holy Orthodox Church as soon as possible abd according to his will. Amen
Your opinion is different from the opinion of many truly holy people. On the one hand, there is a plethora of Saints who left their dioceses to pursue the life of holiness; and on the other hand Saint Tikhon of Moscow and the canonical bishops blest ROCOR to flee the godless authority. Truly, may God heal the schisms of the Churches. ROCOR was accused of schism, but they were the canonical Church.
@@OrthodoxTradition Ok. What about the flock? Don't get me wrong, I support conservative Orthodoxy which is a redundant concept I guess. I like this channel but this argument is weak. As for what St. Tikhon of Moscow did, we can't say whether coercion was involved there. After all it would be a great way to purge the Soviet Church from true church men and fill in the gaps with those supporting the USSR. Also, bishops in pastoral roles are not exactly like monks or hermits. They are tied to their flocks. So, when it gets rough is the shepherd supposed to cut and run and abandon the flock to apostates so that the shepherd can pursue "holiness." I am afraid not.
Also, I am in communion with ROCOR and I support the reality of that communion. It is a good thing and I venerate the ROCOR Saints. Time heals wounds it seems. We are living in difficult times and I fear that things will get more difficult and soon. May the Lord have mercy on us!
For the same reason why the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad didn't have a Patriarch. But they did give us Saint John Maximovitch, which was considered a schismatic by the schismatics.
Not fighting from within is ceding territory to actors of bad faith. Running only creates distance. Turning your back on 99% of the Faith is not a fix. It's escapism.
St. Athanasios the Great: “There are certain [ones] who, while they affirm that they do not hold with Arius, yet compromise themselves and worship with his party; I have been compelled, at the insistence of certain most sincere brethren, to write at once in order that keeping faithfully and without guile the pious Faith which God’s grace works in you, you may not give occasion of scandal to the brethren. For when any sees you, the faithful in Christ, associate and communicate with such people, certainly they will think it a matter of indifference and will fall into the mire of irreligion. Lest, then, this should happen, be pleased, beloved, to shun those who hold the impiety [of Arius], and moreover to avoid those who, while they pretend not to hold with Arius, yet worship with the impious. And we are specially bound to fly from the communion of men whose opinions we hold in execration. If, then, any come to you, and, as blessed John says, brings with him right doctrine, say to him, ‘Fare-thee-well’ (2 Jn. 10), and receive such a one as a brother. But if any pretend that he confesses the right faith, but appear to communicate with those others, exhort him to abstain from such communion, and if he promise to do so, treat him as a brother, but if he persist in a contentious spirit, him avoid. I might greatly lengthen my letter, adding from the divine Scriptures the outline of this teaching. But since, being wise men, you can anticipate those who write, and rather, being intent upon self-denial, are fit to instruct others also, I have dictated a short letter, as from one loving friend to others, in the confidence that living as you do you will preserve a pure and sincere faith, and that those persons [who have communion with Arius], seeing that you do not join with them in worship, will derive benefit, fearing lest they be accounted as impious, and as those who hold with them (heretics).” [“Letter LIII. Second Letter to Monks,” NPNF 2nd Ser., IV:564.]
During the Arian heresy, they were denying a central tenet of the Christian faith (saying that Christ was not God), but for a layperson the faith of the New Calendarist and Old Calendarist is the roughly the same (I know from experience...few people have experience with both...speaking about parish life here, not what some hierarchs are doing) and becomes only a difference in calendar. I support both sides, but with what is happening in society, I now choose to be active in my nearest parish as much as possible to guard my children from our godless society, rather than travel to a much farther more traditional parish. Lord, have mercy. @@OrthodoxTradition
Synod of Russian Bishops Abroad 1961 Our Church remains loyal to the use of the Old Calendar and considers the introduction of the new calendar to be an error. Nonetheless, its tactic was always to preserve spiritual unity with Orthodox Churches, even those who have adopted the New Calendar, but only to the degree to which they celebrate Pascha in compliance with the decision of the First Ecumenical Council. Our Church has never labeled the Ecumenical Patriarchate or the Greek Archdiocese of North and South America as schismatic, and never abrogated spiritual union with them. (Letter dated 27 September 1961 from the Synod of Bishops to the True Orthodox Church of Greece) Our Church keeps the Old Calendar and considers the introduction of the new calendar to be a mistake. Nevertheless, according to the policies of Patriarch Tikhon of blessed memory, we never broke spiritual communion with the canonical Churches in which the new calendar had been introduced. (Vladimir Moss, The Orthodox Church at the Crossroads , Ch. IV “The Lifting of the Anathemas [1955-1970]”, The Orthodox Foundation of St. Michael, Guildford [U.K.], 1992; p.119) Synod of Russian Bishops Abroad 1974 Concerning the question of the presence or absence of grace among the new calendarists the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad does not consider herself or any other Local Church to have the right to make a conclusive decision, since a categorical evaluation in this question can be undertaken only by a properly convened, competent Ecumenical Council, with the obligatory participation of the free Church of Russia. (Thirty Years of Trial: The True Orthodox Christians of Greece, 1970-200 pg. 9 by Vladimir Moss) classicalchristianity.com/2013/03/25/rocor-on-the-new-calendar/ Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky 1863-1936 You know the 13th, 14th and 15th canons of the First-and-Second Council, which speaks about separating oneself from a Bishop or Patriarch after his conciliar condemnation. And there is the canon (the 15th), which says that the clergyman is worthy, not of condemnation, but of praise, who breaks links with him [the heretic] for the sake of the heresy condemned by the holy council or the fathers…, and besides ‘when he (that is, the first hierarch) preaches heresy publicly and teaches it openly in the Church’. But this, glory to God, neither P[atriarch] Basil [III of Constantinople] nor [Archbishop] Chrysostom [of Athens] have done yet. On the contrary, they insist on keeping the former Paschalion, for only it, and not the Julian Calendar itself was covered by the curse of the councils. True, P[atriarch] Jeremiah in the 15th [correct: 16th] century and his successor in the 18th anathematized the calendar itself, but this curse: 1) touches only his contemporaries and 2)does not extend to those frightened to break communion with him, to which are subjected only those who transgress the canonical Paschalion. Moreover (this needs to be noted in any case), the main idea behind the day of Pascha is that it should be celebrated by all Christians (that is, the Orthodox) on one and the same day throughout the inhabited world. True, I myself and my brothers do not all sympathize with the new calendar and modernism, but we beseech the Athonite fathers not to be hasty in composing letters (Romans 14). Do not grieve about our readiness to go to the [Constantinople] Council. Of course, there will be no council, but if there is, and if we go, as St. Flavian went to the Robber Council, then, of course, we will keep the faith and deliver the apostates to anathema. But as long as the last word has not been spoken, as long as the whole Church has not repeated the curses of Patriarch Jeremiah at an Ecumenical Council, we must retain communion, so that we ourselves should not be deprived of salvation, and, in aiming at a gnat, swallow a camel… (The Russian Church and the New Calendar by Vladimir Moss) classicalchristianity.com/2013/03/25/met-anthony-khrapovitsky-on-the-old-calendar-schism/
The problem with this is that it is manipulative. You are not being honest about the development of the position of ROCOR which got stricter and stricter under Metropolitan Philaret.
@@godsaveus4380 Certainly no intention of dishonesty on my part. I’m open to considering official statements by ROCOR that explain “the position” to which you’re referring and show an increase of strictness for “the position”. However, Met. Philaret was ROCOR’s first hierarch in 1974, no?
Hmmm.... The last statement you posted from 1974 regarding the issue of sacramental grace did not give an official "affirmative" or "denial" of either. Even though we can find in open letters that various saints and clergyman had stances on this issue, including IM Andreyev (regarding the MP). I think when TOs use to the term "old ROCOR", we are not necessarily referring to the synodal statements put out by the synod of ROCOR during the "glory days", because even then, we can point out have there were some bishops who were "left leaning" in their positions. As Bp Gregory Grabbe said in 1994, the "glory days" of ROCOR were coming to a demise, because they never really ended taking official stands, which eventually led them to union with MP. What we do have though, is the anathema of 1983. Based off how every local synod and council utilized the powers granted by God to "bind and loose" through anathema, it is safe to say that the line was *officially* drawn when that anathema was released. Now, if you want to go the route of, "Well, Met Vitaly clearly said in his Nativity homily that the anathema was only for those in ROCOR at that time.", I would propose that at the core, anathemas have never worked in such a way, especially when it comes to a heresy that is plaguing ALL the church institutions.
@@T_Wozna I don't presume to know with certainty what the True and/or Genuine Orthodox mean by "old ROCOR". I have suspicions by what they mean, and if my suspicions are correct, then the "old ROCOR" would largely be a figment from a romanticized recollection of the past rather than the past itself. I think synodal statements are the best way to discern ROCOR's views - or any local church's views - on a given issue since it is through the synod that a local church speaks authoritatively and official states its position. So the statements I quoted are essential (although not necessarily exhaustive) in determining what "old ROCOR's" stance was on the calendar controversy/ecumenism/"World Orthodoxy" and its proceedings statements/actions. I don't know what "the line" is vis a vis the 1983 anathema, and I don't want to assume what you mean to avoid the risk of putting words in your mouth. I'm also not familiar with what you're referring to regarding Met Vitaly, but in as much as he was an architect of the anathema, his commentary on it is probably relevant to evaluating the anathema's intentions/scope.
Wow. You need to do your homework. Archbishop Auxentios unilaterally gave a "Tomos" without permission from his remnant bishops to this fake "Metropolia." The majority of the bishops of his Synod found him guilty precisely for that reason. He did things unilaterally. That's how he ruined the relationship with ROCOR. May God rest his soul, they say that he repented and wanted to resign and go to the canonical GOC, but his remnant in Boston talked him out of it. You are not in a canonical Church.
The OP here is a former priest of the Metropolia, but I don't understand the purpose of this post. The history of the GOC is complex, and there is no "only one" Synod. This is hostile trolling.
@@godsaveus4380 This isn't accurate either. The Tomos predates the trial of 1985 and was printed in the official publication of the GOC of Greece. He ruined his relationship with ROCOR by baptizing the chrismated Joao Rocha in 1978 with a corrective baptism. There is no evidence any other Bishops would have done differently. The last sentence of the paragraph is also inaccurate, though we hold no ill will towards you.
They condemned sergianism and atheism and only councils decide calendar issues and similar, you can't deny council, ROCOR's council to join is valid it proves the church is free and has normal synod! We need to make it clear to others though, that during communism those churches had invalid synods and had no synodality councils are wrong, including the calendar one, if it was a council at all!
@@godsaveus4380 well, if it's a matter of setting the record straight namely exoneration over slander, then that's something else. I was under the impression that the issue here was the hoodooguru ecumenistist fringe orthodox and the Orthodox Church.
Patriarch Kirill of MP stating that Orthodox Christians share "the same God as Moslems" and various priests saying there can be a "good ecumenism" made me realize that the heresy of ecumenism is more rampant than I imagined. Pray that I receive a corrective baptism into GOC.
May God bring you into the Church.
May our Savior save thee, Geronda and may Panagia shelter thee from the malice of the evil one.
Amen! I echo the same sentiment! Glory to God for our beloved Metropolitan Demitrios. May the Lords loving care be always upon him.
Thanks be to God this is to be continued, i was baptized and chrismated as an adult into a new calendar church and have only recently even become aware of the GOC, the nearest GOC church is two hours away from me, i have a lot of questions and am looking forward to more information from Metropolitan Demetrius, thank you and God Bless!
@@ivansince91And Elder Hieronymos was with the New Calendar and had a revelation and left to join the Old-Calendarists....
@@godsaveus4380Yes, but to be fair it was the opposite with Saint Joseph. I’m not denying that God was acting in either case, as different things are called for different people…
@@ryrocks9487Yeah.
I always learn from your talks. Glory to God!
Glory to God!
Good video. Indeed the old ROCOR was a great light. I became Orthodox through their witness.
God bless you.
This is the True Church. ☦️
Amen!
@@OrthodoxTradition Amen! Love from Loch Lomond, CA.
I think that it takes so much energy just to work on our own wretched souls then to worry about the politics/heresies/dissensions/etc around us.. let us be alert,aware& vigilant(Εγρήγορση) but mostly let us pray to God for discernment🙏🏻☦️ Αμήν νάνε ευλογημένο
Yes, but unfortunately he needed to say this because too many people have questions.
As you may have noticed, most of the time our Geronta speaks about spiritual matters. But too many people are asking questions, and he does have the responsibility to uphold the faith, and to defend it from heresy, apostasy, and lies.
@@OrthodoxTradition Amen!
@@OrthodoxTraditionYou mean so many not too many.
Aw! Some people feel there is way bigger matters to address. Some people feel this is very important. However, there is the tool of discernment God gives to all who seek Him. This is jot a rigid gift. It moves where God's hand places it to address the workings of good and workings of bad. The church calendar may seem trivial, but-- we must not ignore the big workings evil seeds within the "trivial". Ive noticed in my aging years, how the trivial is muchly used by evil to hide behind as it works maliciously bc it knows that some of us prefer to ignore it. As evil works it's evils behind the trivial, not all of us are blind. We see it's hands lighting small fires of hostility between Believers.. and we know that small fires tend to turn into bonfires..
So, be careful with ignoring the trivial bc it is trivial.
God is a man of war. Our avenger. Our Peace. Comfort. Strength. Joy. Truth. Power over all evil.
Greater is HE that is in us than it that is in the world!!!!!
🌷🕊🕊🌷
The way that I've heard modernist jurisdictions justify accepting St John Maximovitch as a saint now, is that they invent a new kind of distinction about grace, between canonical grace and charismatic grace. They say that St John has charismatic grace, but no canonical grace - so they say they can accept that he was a personally holy man, but not that he had any canonical standing.
However, this makes no sense if you take into account a particular miracle in St John Maximovitch's life, where while he was still alive, a particular sick woman prayed to him to help her, and so what he did was walk through the walls of the locked hospital, to give her holy communion that he had consecrated.
You need to be an actual, real, canonical bishop to do sacraments. Even if we grant their idea that St John Maximovitch had the "charismatic" grace to walk through walls, only true clergy can perform the sacraments. If he had charismatic grace, but no canonical grace, then this miracle makes no sense - why would God allow a schismatic non-bishop to walk through walls to give a sick woman a false holy communion?
So weird. It sounds like the man calling Saint John a schismatic is a schismatic!
Finally watched full video. Well done! Eis polla eti Despota
God bless you.
The church has suffered so much persecution to keep the faith, thank you our beloved Saints pray for us🙏🥰they have a problem because they are children of darkness not light 🙏🥰
May God preserve us all.
Thank you for the in depth explanation of the historical situation!
Thanks be to God!
I am a former Roman Catholic but left and will be attending the divine liturgy at a rocor parish 2 hours away. I sincerely believe the Eastern Orthodox church is the truth faith. But I am confused on where to go but I do know that my family and I need to be baptized....and be received into the church. But I come across alot of divisions which is confusing for someone just learning. So I ask for prayers
May the Lord lead you to the truth.
If you were baptized in the RC church you do not need baptism.
That depends. Some do. Some Chrismate. Fr. Seraphim Rose felt they should baptized. @@arliemaria
@@arliemariafrom the creed, the symbol of orthodox faith:
"In One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church - I confess one baptism"
Everyone needs to be baptized if possible. No excuses if it is possible
@@arliemaria Where did you get that understanding if you do not mind me asking? Would it be just RC churches or any baptism this is all confusing to me with the many recent changes. Thank you in advance
Your Eminence,
Due to my lack of understanding and experience, I’ve been very confused about this topic.
I was received through ROCOR-MP two years ago, and, during this time, have been making pilgrimages to monasteries in the US.
I’ve been struggling against my passions, under guidance with my priest, and have received his blessing to pursue the monastic life.
I won’t go into detail here about the strange things I’ve noticed at some of the monasteries but I will say, St. Anthony’s, where Elder Ephraim’s tomb is located, has been the only monastery, which I have visited, that I felt fully comfortable at.
As of now, I am under guidance of the Elder to remain in the world temporarily, and pay off some small momentary debts before I begin a monastic vocation at any monastery.
Considering I am not a novice, I’m still discerning what monastery I feel comfortable with to live out a life in repentance. If it’s Gods will, I will still be making pilgrimages to other monasteries to be absolutely certain this is Gods will.
My question’s are more than a few, and I would be very grateful to hear your response(s):
Does the GOC believe there is grace within the ROCOR-MP? (an example being the Jordanville monastery)
Do you know of any ROCOR-MP bishops that recognize there’s grace within the GOC? If so, may we know which bishop?
Does the GOC recognize a sanctity of life in Elder Ephraim of Arizona & Philotheou? If so, then would it not logically conclude the GOC recognizes grace even in GOARCH?
If my logic is incorrect about this, how? And please help me understand.
Does the GOC recognize the Sanctity of St. Joseph the Hesychast?
If so, does this not logically follow that the GOC recognizes grace within even in the EP? If this does not logically follow, how so?
If the GOC does not recognize the sanctity of either, why? And why mention Elder Ephraim if it is the case the GOC does not recognize his sanctity, and his spiritual fathers (St. Joseph) sanctity?
I have more questions, forgive me.. but I will leave it at this for now. Maybe we will have a discussion that follows in the comments below.
In Christ,
Matthew
There are too many questions here to be answered on TH-cam. You should email your questions to His Eminence, or better yet, see him in person.
His address is gocofamerica@gmail.com
@@OrthodoxTraditionI’m grateful for the response. I will send an email.
@@OrthodoxTraditionwhy don't you make a video going through all those points?
@@orthodoxphronesisdo not be seduced by these men.
Fighting from within is ironically a modernistic idea. There is literally nothing to back fighting from within in a historical context.
It really is an innovation.
Enlightening video. I agree- this is a very unique situation in the church. We should not be lawyers in approaching it.
God bless you.
What's the 1925 miracle that the Metropolitan mentions in the video?
That will be mentioned in an upcoming video.
Amén 🙏 Thank you your Eminence! What one supposed to do if there is no Authentic an not heretic Orthodox Church in his city? What is the Orthodoxy of the heart that you mentioned in your lecture? I dream one day there will be a Zar again and He'll be a saint and from Russia will come a new start of Christianity 🙌🕯️☦️
Your Eminence, can I ask then, am I in Heresy for attending Rocor parishes and receiving Communion there?
I am replying to this comment to hopefully get Geronda's (or a Father to get His Eminence's) attention to answer this critical question.
I would also appreciate a direct answer to this question!!
I think that it's unfair to ask such a provocative question. We want to keep the door open between Metropolitan Demetrios and ROCOR.
It should be obvious from what His Eminence says that we are not in Communion with ROCOR-MP -- but we are in Communion with the remnant of ROCOR that did not go along with the union.
We can hope for a miracle. The Moscow Patriarchate needs to repent of the heresies of Ecumenism and Sergianism as "Old-ROCOR" expected them to. Vladika Averky is the one that said that we need to use the term "True Orthodox" to distinguish between us and the Ecumenists.
Provocative and unfair in what way? For someone with genuine concern this is a legitimate question that deserves a direct response. No beating around the bush….
Prayerful Greetings Bp.Demetrius,
It's very praiseworthy and selfless of you to dedicate time from your overwhelming schedule as both Abbot and Hierarch for this most worthy cause in helping out convert Clergymen and those faithful under their guidance in better understanding of both the traditional Rocor and likewise the Old Calendar connection.
I would just have to add to your statement about both the Patriarchate's of Jerusalem and Serbia stopping recognition / communion with Rocor. The Patriarchate of Serbia and Rocor were always communion officially, while in Jerusalem - the Monasteries/Convent's always both served upon the antimens and always Liturgically commemorated the Patriarchate of Jerusalem; Rocor Clergymen were recognized but due to administrative red-tape ( Moscow Patriarchate ) they couldn't serve at the Holy Sepulchre.
Here is an excerpt of a letter sent by Patriarchate Pavle of Serbia to the IV all diaspora council in San Francisco.
"Nonwithstanding the tremendous trials and catastrophes which befell the Serbian Orthodox Church in the XX century - we have in mind the 50-year godless communist yoke in Yugoslavia - the Serbian Church's ecclesiastical and Eucharistic ties with both the persecuted and suffering Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Church diaspora, which temporarily suspended Eucharistic communion with the Church in Russia, never ceased till this day.
Thus, by God's Providence, the Serbian Church is the only one of the Local Orthodox Churches which has maintained unbroken, direct and deep ties with the fullness of the Russian Church".
synod.com/synod/eng2006/5enprivetstviyepp.html
That's all true except for one piece of important information. On the ROCOR side, there was a break in Communion with the Serbs by many ROCOR bishops. Metropolitan Philaret and his bishops did not concelebrate with Serbian bishops. We have seen no such photographs. We know that there were some Vespers services together. The only time was when Metropolitan Amphilohios served just before the union with Moscow.
@@godsaveus4380 absolutely wrong on your part. You may have your own opinion but you aren’t entitled to your own facts and truth.
I’ll just list a few examples, and if you’d like to do some research you’ll find plenty more.
Do you know who was the main character in pushing the synod of bishops to speed up the investigation and eventual canonization of Saint John of Shanghai ?
Metropolitan Mark of Berlin ( consecrated Bishop in 1982 - meaning He was an active participant in the Synod of Bishops for the 1983 Anathema against ecumenism ) in His own words had the blessing of the Serbian patriarch at that time ( Patriarch German ) to freely serve in Serbia and concelebrate whenever He was in Serbia without needing any prior consent of the Patriarch which He continues to this day.
ArchBishop Hilarion ( +2022 ) as the Bishop of the Australian diocese concelebrated with Patriarch Pavle ( + 2009 ) when the Patriarch visited Australia in the late 20th century.
For the feast of Saint John of Shanghai and SF , the 5th year after His canonization, Schema-Archbishop Anthony of SF ( +2000 ) hosted and concelebrated with the Serbian Bishops, John of Western America and Longin.
The persecuted and much suffering Schema-Archimandrite Panteleimon (+2016) and His holy brotherhood of the Transfiguration of our Lord, in their official letter to Metropolitan Vitaly (+2006) state their canonical reasons for leaving the Church Abroad, one being the recognition and communion with the Hierarchy of the Belgrade Patriarchate ( Serbia ) excluding Metropolitan Christopher (+2010) “ who held joint prayers with some women “pastor “.
Do keep in mind that Archbishop Tikhon of SF, Saint John of SF, Schema-Archbishops Anthony of LA and Anthony of SF all came from the same brotherhood in Serbia, while ArchBishop Anthony of Geneva likewise came from a monastery close by called Tuman.
Bishop Sava ( +1970 or 1973 ) was the Spiritual Child of the Hieromartyr Saint Nikolai of Ohrid and Zicha (+1956).
That is why the Sobor of Bishops ( Top secret ) document was never in full affect, besides being anti/patristic. If you are going to sever communion then you openly as a Church announce it, such as the True Church of Greece and Cyprus under the Presidency of Schema-Archbishop Andrew (+2005) did with Rocor in 1975 , and Rocor did with the resisters-groups in 2007.
May all the Saints of Athos / and those who celebrate according to the Russian typikon all Saints of Russia prayerfully intercede for us all.
@@fr.averky7970Thank you for your response. Are you Matthewite?
@@fr.averky7970In Metropolitan Vitaly's Nativity Encyclical of 1986, he says that if any hierarch of ROCOR had concelebrated with Ecumenists it was by Economia and it was not the official policy of ROCOR. After the Anathema of 1983, the majority of bishops would not even concelebrate with Serbs. Perhaps after Metropolitan Philaret's righteous repose, things got lax again.
I have a question.
So.. Its said that sts. John Maximovitch and Philaret of NY were GOC. But i saw few days ago old footage (i can send you the link), when they were very old (especially st. John Maximovitch, at one ROCOR church in California, 1965, blessing new cupola.
So they were not GOC then because this church is Rocor.
Christ is Risen! No, St. John was not under GOC, but he supported and prayed with the GOC. He was connected with the GOC. The GOC itself stems from ROCOR.
@@OrthodoxTradition Alithos anesti! :) i apologize for not greeting you..
I understand now. I heard from some GOC people that he was in GOC. Thank you for the information!
In Christ +
Please would you explain in simple layman's terms why the churches (without a council) thought to follow the schismatic calendar?
The new calendar is followed until the time of Great Lent and Pascha, then it is old?
The WEST is in Schism and are anaxios ... not the ones who follow the old calendar.
It has troubled me since just after I was received in 1996, that I've watched the Ecumenical Pat, Bartholomew cosying up to Rome rather then his brother bishops in other jurisdictions. Behaving like a pope - not a Patriarch.
May God help, see and judge, and have mercy upon me, the sinner.
Rome is full of black magic. Look at the Obelisks at the Vatican. This is Egyptian Black Magick. Rome is damned.
Why bother with them? Individual RC Priests are not really part of this and often do not understand it. We do not need Rome and Pharaoh/Fallen Angels who run Geneva. This is Lucifer. God help us all.
Metropolitan Demitri.....I like your statement of one using " critical thinking", and individual intelligence as a "Rational Sheep in the Flock of Christ". This is a good sounding board and intelligible tool , that the Orthodox Church prescribes for each her baptized servants to develope within their scope of practice. This is a skill that enables one to prayerfully arm onesself against delusional and wrong views. We Orthodox, are part and parcel within the rational body of Christ....morals, ethics, right behavior go hand in hand with right Christian Orthodoxy views...but....one can not falsely , or mentality rest their consciousness in thinking that they are anchored into right Orthodox " belief and body" , and then make excuses that "personal sins" are to be considered mere pot-holes on the road to salvation, or to consider themselves to be outside of the scope of intelligent judgements from other members of the community, for the sake of preservation of the institution over the individual... How many so-called Right believing Orthodox monastics have we seen in the last decades, behaving like moral degenerative, abusive scumbags , and then continued to proclaim that they were covered in salvation because of mere true-Orthodox Ecclesia beliefs! CULTS ALWAYS have the prescription for it's neophyte members: "You no longer need to think for yourself, but rather, from now on, we ...the supreme leaders will do the thinking for you!!!,...just surrender to our bogus authorities , and we will make your life perfect. Unfortunately, those who surrender their intelligence to demonic personalities , end up being destroyed spiritually and materially. Vinegar looks like Wine, but taste like poison...pure spiritual milk touched by the lips of a serpent is always poisonous to those that partake there of. May our journey go well as we walk in Christ! As I remember you from your youthful sincere devotional attitude as a kid...I think you grew well into your spiritual adulthood....Amen.
Unfortunately, many who say "at least I'm Orthodox" end up being schismatics or heretics. Orthodoxy of life goes hand in hand with sanctification. The whole point is that we must be Orthodox to become sanctified. What's Orthodoxy without sanctification?
@@OrthodoxTradition Well.....let's hope that the mercy of Christ will expand the sanctifiion of the Traditional Church to more cities. Most in the USA have to rest in Economia and form even to preserve what they have in their Church lives.
By God’s grace I have been Orthodox for many years. My church was with ROCOR for many years until we joined with GOC. I remember very well how ROCOR said that we were one in mind and faith with the Greek old Calender church of Met. Cyprian. Then, virtually over night they made a U turn, changed and abandoned GOC! A true stab in the back. But this of course was politically expedient for them. How sad their raison d’etre changed from the Kingdom of God to to the earthly kingdom of man. ☦️☦️☦️
The GOC actually left Rocor in 1994. It wasn't until 2012 that the Cyprianites and GOC reunited after 27 years of schism
@@byzpaints
Prayerful greetings, actually it was 2014 after the repose of Bp. Cyprian. Now the Romanian True Orthodox have anathematized both the teachings of the late Cyprian and Cyprian himself as a heresy widely known as Cyprianism. The Romanian’s have severed communion with the group under Bp. Kallinikos until they receive a Orthodox confession regarding both Cyprianism and the schismatic new calendar. If the late Leonty of Chili (+1972) didn’t uncanonically meddle in the affairs of the True Orthodox Church’s we certainly wouldn’t be in this predicament today where the laity have been suffering for the last past 60+ years, not knowing where the True Church is or what it is, thus giving the ripe opportunity for the new so called “apostles of America,, new calendarist to suck the meek faithful into their schismatic vacuum of apostasy from the True Church and the teachings of the Holy Church Fathers. May God grant us all wisdom.
What is the "Cyprianite" heresy and how does it differ from ROCOR ecclesiology? Cyprian basically followed the line of Metropolitan Chrysostomos, while the rest of his main group of followers were influenced by the Matthewite ecclesiology. Matthewites kept trickling in.
Plus, the Romanians had a "worse" history. They were formally in Communion with the present day Metropolitan Onouphry of Kiev, until Metropolitan Hilarion of ROCOR found out and complained to them. The "Cyprianites" also complained! It stopped in the 90's.
@@godsaveus4380 well said brother. Met. Cyprian was a brother of one mind and heart one minute, then, when his and his synods faith and confession had not changed in the least, he suddenly became a heretic! What total nonsense and shame on them. ☦️☦️☦️
My personal opinion is that the issue with Met Cyprian is actually that he refused to be under the authority of any synod. He was defrocked by both the Greek Church and the GOC…
So is Putin Orthodox or not? Why did ROCOR find reunion with the ROC? I'm asking because I've been converting from traditional Roman Catholicism (pre-Vatican II) to ROCOR.
I'd recommend reading Vladimir Moss' history of ROCOR.
I saw this week that Patriarch Kirill now accepts "theistic evolution." Is this possible? This idea comes from Teilhard de Chardin, a Catholic theologian who even Catholics know to be a heretic. In Teilhardism and the New Religion Wolfgang Smith (mathematics professor and philosopher) utterly destroys the possibility of reconciling evolution with theism (though the Vatican now accepts it). I've been drawn away from Catholicism to Orthodoxy and now find this?
For those who cannot study this issue in detail remember that evolution requires succeeding generations to "evolve" over millions (or billions) of years. Since the sin of Adam brought death into the world how could death and successive generations have occurred prior to that time?
hardin
Join the GOC under Metropolitan Demetrius. We have not changed and still hold to ROCOR's position regarding the Moscow Patriarchate. Let the Patriarchate of Moscow accept St. John Maximovitch's four stipulations for unity, and then we can all be united.
@@OrthodoxTradition Thanks for the reply.
I'm going to rocor and the Georgian old calendar churches
I avoid the modernist districts and I have sympathy for the Greek old calendarists or the genuine Orthodox
I can't say they don't have grace in the modernist churches but it confuses me any goc willing to answer questions for me?
Sure. Thank you for your message.
@@OrthodoxTradition I'm a catechumen at a rocor parish in Oklahoma and a Georgian Orthodox monestary near me(thank God) what could I read to get a better understanding of the goc, the schism between the rocor and oca recent Orthodox history
There is a lot of information. Perhaps you can start at Orthodox Tradionalist website.
Can you name names so that some of us who may not know what is going on ?
These are answers to a specific group of people claiming that we are schismatics.
Many years, Sevasmiotate.
🕊🙏🏼❤️🕊
God bless.
Thank you Your Eminence.
Today, the loyal Old-ROCOR is the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCA) that was formed in 1920 by bishops who were forced to leave their homeland along with millions of Russian people, all fleeing the horrors of the communist system. The ROCA bishops, clergy, and laity remain loyal to the original mission of an independent ROCA. We are not in Eucharistic communion with the Moscow Patriarchate (MP), the state-controlled official Russian Church.
The Moscow Patriarchate (MP) and the current ROCOR (MP) need to repent of the heresies of Ecumenism and Sergianism.
The Churches of the ROCA remnant (the part of ROCOR that did not go along with the union with the MP in 2007) are present today in the Diaspora District of ROCA. The list of Parishes is present on the rocana and auroca web sites.
The ROCA Churches are located in Australia, New Zealand, St. Petersburg, as well as in the U.S. and Canada.
Despite protests from within the ranks of bishops, clergy, and laypeople, on May 17, 2007, a large part of the ROCA entered into Eucharistic communion with the MP with the signing of the “Act of Canonical Communion” and is now known as the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR - MP). A smaller part chose to remain loyal to the historical Russian Orthodox Church and continue the mission of the ROCA.
---------
If the clergy don't concelebrate, the people who do, apart from their respective hierarchs, do so illicitly. This is an unfortunate situation. LET NOTHING BE DONE APART FROM THE BISHOP.
Further, and I say this humbly, as i understand the Canons in a case such as that of ROCOR's inception, it is forbidden for the Bishop to abandon his diocese and flee into exile (unless he was forcibly expelled by the government). The bishop may not abandon his flock and claim to be HOLY in so doing. It is tantamount to abandoning your sheep to the wolves. I understand the complexity of this situation in the face of modern day tyranny and Communism but the bishop may not abandon his post. You remain with your lambs to the end. THAT is the superior witness and there can be no other. When our Lord was abandoned at the cross, it was the witness of the WOMEN that was superior. May the Lord have mercy on us all and heal the divisions of the Holy Orthodox Church as soon as possible abd according to his will. Amen
Your opinion is different from the opinion of many truly holy people. On the one hand, there is a plethora of Saints who left their dioceses to pursue the life of holiness; and on the other hand Saint Tikhon of Moscow and the canonical bishops blest ROCOR to flee the godless authority.
Truly, may God heal the schisms of the Churches. ROCOR was accused of schism, but they were the canonical Church.
@@OrthodoxTradition Ok. What about the flock? Don't get me wrong, I support conservative Orthodoxy which is a redundant concept I guess. I like this channel but this argument is weak.
As for what St. Tikhon of Moscow did, we can't say whether coercion was involved there. After all it would be a great way to purge the Soviet Church from true church men and fill in the gaps with those supporting the USSR. Also, bishops in pastoral roles are not exactly like monks or hermits. They are tied to their flocks. So, when it gets rough is the shepherd supposed to cut and run and abandon the flock to apostates so that the shepherd can pursue "holiness." I am afraid not.
Also, I am in communion with ROCOR and I support the reality of that communion. It is a good thing and I venerate the ROCOR Saints. Time heals wounds it seems. We are living in difficult times and I fear that things will get more difficult and soon. May the Lord have mercy on us!
🙏☦️
Why doesn't the GOC have a patriarch
For the same reason why the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad didn't have a Patriarch. But they did give us Saint John Maximovitch, which was considered a schismatic by the schismatics.
☦️☦️☦️
Amén
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Not fighting from within is ceding territory to actors of bad faith. Running only creates distance. Turning your back on 99% of the Faith is not a fix. It's escapism.
St. Athanasios the Great: “There are certain [ones] who, while they affirm that they do not hold with Arius, yet compromise themselves and worship with his party; I have been compelled, at the insistence of certain most sincere brethren, to write at once in order that keeping faithfully and without guile the pious Faith which God’s grace works in you, you may not give occasion of scandal to the brethren. For when any sees you, the faithful in Christ, associate and communicate with such people, certainly they will think it a matter of indifference and will fall into the mire of irreligion. Lest, then, this should happen, be pleased, beloved, to shun those who hold the impiety [of Arius], and moreover to avoid those who, while they pretend not to hold with Arius, yet worship with the impious. And we are specially bound to fly from the communion of men whose opinions we hold in execration. If, then, any come to you, and, as blessed John says, brings with him right doctrine, say to him, ‘Fare-thee-well’ (2 Jn. 10), and receive such a one as a brother. But if any pretend that he confesses the right faith, but appear to communicate with those others, exhort him to abstain from such communion, and if he promise to do so, treat him as a brother, but if he persist in a contentious spirit, him avoid. I might greatly lengthen my letter, adding from the divine Scriptures the outline of this teaching. But since, being wise men, you can anticipate those who write, and rather, being intent upon self-denial, are fit to instruct others also, I have dictated a short letter, as from one loving friend to others, in the confidence that living as you do you will preserve a pure and sincere faith, and that those persons [who have communion with Arius], seeing that you do not join with them in worship, will derive benefit, fearing lest they be accounted as impious, and as those who hold with them (heretics).” [“Letter LIII. Second Letter to Monks,” NPNF 2nd Ser., IV:564.]
During the Arian heresy, they were denying a central tenet of the Christian faith (saying that Christ was not God), but for a layperson the faith of the New Calendarist and Old Calendarist is the roughly the same (I know from experience...few people have experience with both...speaking about parish life here, not what some hierarchs are doing) and becomes only a difference in calendar. I support both sides, but with what is happening in society, I now choose to be active in my nearest parish as much as possible to guard my children from our godless society, rather than travel to a much farther more traditional parish. Lord, have mercy. @@OrthodoxTradition
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Synod of Russian Bishops Abroad 1961
Our Church remains loyal to the use of the Old Calendar and considers the introduction of the new calendar to be an error. Nonetheless, its tactic was always to preserve spiritual unity with Orthodox Churches, even those who have adopted the New Calendar, but only to the degree to which they celebrate Pascha in compliance with the decision of the First Ecumenical Council. Our Church has never labeled the Ecumenical Patriarchate or the Greek Archdiocese of North and South America as schismatic, and never abrogated spiritual union with them. (Letter dated 27 September 1961 from the Synod of Bishops to the True Orthodox Church of Greece)
Our Church keeps the Old Calendar and considers the introduction of the new calendar to be a mistake. Nevertheless, according to the policies of Patriarch Tikhon of blessed memory, we never broke spiritual communion with the canonical Churches in which the new calendar had been introduced. (Vladimir Moss, The Orthodox Church at the Crossroads , Ch. IV “The Lifting of the Anathemas [1955-1970]”, The Orthodox Foundation of St. Michael, Guildford [U.K.], 1992; p.119)
Synod of Russian Bishops Abroad 1974
Concerning the question of the presence or absence of grace among the new calendarists the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad does not consider herself or any other Local Church to have the right to make a conclusive decision, since a categorical evaluation in this question can be undertaken only by a properly convened, competent Ecumenical Council, with the obligatory participation of the free Church of Russia. (Thirty Years of Trial: The True Orthodox Christians of Greece, 1970-200 pg. 9 by Vladimir Moss)
classicalchristianity.com/2013/03/25/rocor-on-the-new-calendar/
Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky 1863-1936
You know the 13th, 14th and 15th canons of the First-and-Second Council, which speaks about separating oneself from a Bishop or Patriarch after his conciliar condemnation. And there is the canon (the 15th), which says that the clergyman is worthy, not of condemnation, but of praise, who breaks links with him [the heretic] for the sake of the heresy condemned by the holy council or the fathers…, and besides ‘when he (that is, the first hierarch) preaches heresy publicly and teaches it openly in the Church’. But this, glory to God, neither P[atriarch] Basil [III of Constantinople] nor [Archbishop] Chrysostom [of Athens] have done yet. On the contrary, they insist on keeping the former Paschalion, for only it, and not the Julian Calendar itself was covered by the curse of the councils. True, P[atriarch] Jeremiah in the 15th [correct: 16th] century and his successor in the 18th anathematized the calendar itself, but this curse: 1) touches only his contemporaries and 2)does not extend to those frightened to break communion with him, to which are subjected only those who transgress the canonical Paschalion. Moreover (this needs to be noted in any case), the main idea behind the day of Pascha is that it should be celebrated by all Christians (that is, the Orthodox) on one and the same day throughout the inhabited world. True, I myself and my brothers do not all sympathize with the new calendar and modernism, but we beseech the Athonite fathers not to be hasty in composing letters (Romans 14). Do not grieve about our readiness to go to the [Constantinople] Council. Of course, there will be no council, but if there is, and if we go, as St. Flavian went to the Robber Council, then, of course, we will keep the faith and deliver the apostates to anathema. But as long as the last word has not been spoken, as long as the whole Church has not repeated the curses of Patriarch Jeremiah at an Ecumenical Council, we must retain communion, so that we ourselves should not be deprived of salvation, and, in aiming at a gnat, swallow a camel… (The Russian Church and the New Calendar by Vladimir Moss)
classicalchristianity.com/2013/03/25/met-anthony-khrapovitsky-on-the-old-calendar-schism/
The problem with this is that it is manipulative. You are not being honest about the development of the position of ROCOR which got stricter and stricter under Metropolitan Philaret.
@@godsaveus4380 Certainly no intention of dishonesty on my part. I’m open to considering official statements by ROCOR that explain “the position” to which you’re referring and show an increase of strictness for “the position”. However, Met. Philaret was ROCOR’s first hierarch in 1974, no?
Thank you for this.
Hmmm....
The last statement you posted from 1974 regarding the issue of sacramental grace did not give an official "affirmative" or "denial" of either. Even though we can find in open letters that various saints and clergyman had stances on this issue, including IM Andreyev (regarding the MP).
I think when TOs use to the term "old ROCOR", we are not necessarily referring to the synodal statements put out by the synod of ROCOR during the "glory days", because even then, we can point out have there were some bishops who were "left leaning" in their positions. As Bp Gregory Grabbe said in 1994, the "glory days" of ROCOR were coming to a demise, because they never really ended taking official stands, which eventually led them to union with MP.
What we do have though, is the anathema of 1983. Based off how every local synod and council utilized the powers granted by God to "bind and loose" through anathema, it is safe to say that the line was *officially* drawn when that anathema was released.
Now, if you want to go the route of, "Well, Met Vitaly clearly said in his Nativity homily that the anathema was only for those in ROCOR at that time.", I would propose that at the core, anathemas have never worked in such a way, especially when it comes to a heresy that is plaguing ALL the church institutions.
@@T_Wozna I don't presume to know with certainty what the True and/or Genuine Orthodox mean by "old ROCOR". I have suspicions by what they mean, and if my suspicions are correct, then the "old ROCOR" would largely be a figment from a romanticized recollection of the past rather than the past itself. I think synodal statements are the best way to discern ROCOR's views - or any local church's views - on a given issue since it is through the synod that a local church speaks authoritatively and official states its position. So the statements I quoted are essential (although not necessarily exhaustive) in determining what "old ROCOR's" stance was on the calendar controversy/ecumenism/"World Orthodoxy" and its proceedings statements/actions.
I don't know what "the line" is vis a vis the 1983 anathema, and I don't want to assume what you mean to avoid the risk of putting words in your mouth. I'm also not familiar with what you're referring to regarding Met Vitaly, but in as much as he was an architect of the anathema, his commentary on it is probably relevant to evaluating the anathema's intentions/scope.
The GOC in America is not connected with the GOC you belong Bishop or fr?
No Fr, GOCA is under Gregory of Denver. Stay far away from them.
The GOC Metropolia under H. H Metr. John is the only one who has a firm historical & apostolic connection from the GOC of H B Auxentios of Athens.
Wow. You need to do your homework. Archbishop Auxentios unilaterally gave a "Tomos" without permission from his remnant bishops to this fake "Metropolia." The majority of the bishops of his Synod found him guilty precisely for that reason. He did things unilaterally. That's how he ruined the relationship with ROCOR. May God rest his soul, they say that he repented and wanted to resign and go to the canonical GOC, but his remnant in Boston talked him out of it.
You are not in a canonical Church.
No.
The OP here is a former priest of the Metropolia, but I don't understand the purpose of this post. The history of the GOC is complex, and there is no "only one" Synod. This is hostile trolling.
@@godsaveus4380 This isn't accurate either. The Tomos predates the trial of 1985 and was printed in the official publication of the GOC of Greece. He ruined his relationship with ROCOR by baptizing the chrismated Joao Rocha in 1978 with a corrective baptism. There is no evidence any other Bishops would have done differently. The last sentence of the paragraph is also inaccurate, though we hold no ill will towards you.
They condemned sergianism and atheism and only councils decide calendar issues and similar, you can't deny council, ROCOR's council to join is valid it proves the church is free and has normal synod! We need to make it clear to others though, that during communism those churches had invalid synods and had no synodality councils are wrong, including the calendar one, if it was a council at all!
May God deliver us from the delusions of the evil one.
Get over it. One is either Orthodox or one is not. The question is are we saints?
People are asking questions. He needs to answer them.
@@godsaveus4380 people also blab on. They should stop wasting their own time and his.
@@LeutherGreengager-ip1uw Yes but they are confusing people by saying that he is not in the Orthodox Church. That's a serious accusation.
@@godsaveus4380 well, if it's a matter of setting the record straight namely exoneration over slander, then that's something else. I was under the impression that the issue here was the hoodooguru ecumenistist fringe orthodox and the Orthodox Church.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatism
So stupid. There is no relation.