As an American that owes my existence in America to immigration, I personally will always be pro-immigration. My view is that it’s not fair for me to pull the ladder up behind me.
@@marshall5912 Likewise, as a non-immigrant, I do not think it is fair to shut one's gates to people in need of shelter and safety. I understand that no country can take in the whole world, there must be an upper limit, but I do not think that any European country has reached that limit.
Unlike a lot of moderate and leftist parties in Europe, the Social Democrat party took the bold and unusual strategy of actually doing what the citizens of their country wanted regarding immigration and it worked. Truly a fascinating lesson.
So, basically, their policy is forced assimilation? As long as they aren't hypocritical about it, there's nothing wrong there. Also, What's their policy on normal immigration?
And then there's Belgium, especially the Francophone part, where the far-right has been shut out of government - and media in Walonia - and the media. And their cordon sanitaire seems to hold, especially among francophones.
The problem that the Far-Right in Walonia has, is that far-right in belgium traditionally also wants the Belgium state to dissolve into Waloons and Flemish, with Brussels being. . . whatever. That idea is very unpopular in Walonia (the french part of Belgium) as it is poorer than the Flemish part, and so there is a wealth transfer that is facilitated by the Belgium state. Then again, Red States in the US also vote against federal programs, despite the fact they benefit more from them than Blue States, so what do I know.
Ok, so I'm Danish; and left-leaning. And it has been very hard to stomach what I regard as all out racist politics from a party that calls themselves socialist. For the past 25 years we have had first the center right in power propped up by further right anti-immigration (or rather, anti-immigrant) parties like the Danish People's Party. Then, when we have had left-wing governments during this period, they have been very eager to copy the anti-immigration politics of the right. And right now we have a coalition government over the center. Sure, it's nice that we are not contending with out and out fascists; but even so, much of their (the social democrats, the current governing party) bullshit is unconscionable, and some of it is downright inhuman.
Tbf nothing in socialism is neither pro or anti immigrants, the fact that social policies, immigration, Social progressivism and environmental/green policies are usually lumped together in left leaning politics is based on correlations rather than link between those issues, and I think the case of Denmark shows pretty well why the Left-Right political spectrum is a very limited tool to describe political groups. I am very interested to know about what inhuman and racist measures the government has taken, the examples in this video look a bit mild to me, but I assume there is more to it.
@@kayemni Socialists tend to be humanists. Idealists. We wanna build a system that's good for humans, all humans, not just the few. That's why socialists tend to be inclusive, but our SocDems are the opposite. I think they've turned their backs on their supposed ideology.
@@Boomerrage32 I agree but the keyword here is "tend", that's a correlation between the positions of peoples. Also, I don't think all anti-immigration policies are inherently not humanist. If you believe that more peoples coming will make everyone worse off, that is a good reason to be anti-immigration (whether this is a correct belief based on sound argument and correct data is another story).
@@kayemni You raise an interesting point. Suppose that there comes a point where the anti-immigration stance brings the most good. If you explore that line of reasoning as a socialist (and I think you must), you might ask the question: If socialism is supposed to be so inclusive that it is for everyone and any given country has a fixed ceiling for how many immigrants it can feasibly house and feed at the same time, is socialism even possible? Can a small country like Denmark achieve socialism by opening its borders to everyone or will socialism have to change in order to remain somewhat true to its original premise, paradoxical as that may sound? If you are a socialist, what are you willing to sacrifice to achieve your dream for a better and a more conscionable tomorrow? If you can't include everyone, who will you exclude? Our SocDems have found an answer to that question that I'm not at all comfortable with but it's not like I've got a better answer so... hey-ho.
@@kayemni About inhuman racist measures, I was thinking about the measures that are mentioned in this video about breaking up closed communities or 'ghettos'. There has been several policies regarding this over the years, but specifically I was thinking about policies instituted in 2018 by the then center right government, but kept by the soc-dems who took power later; so they are supposedly alright with it. It includes measures like tearing down homes affordable by low-income families, increased punishment for certain things if you live in the designated area, punishments or restriction of aid to the family if their children have been involved in crimes or if their children miss too much school (!); and it is possible for an area to get designated as a problematic 'ghetto' even if there are no problems with criminality in the area; but if the people living there are to a large degree from or descendants from 'non-western' countries. Also, the laws against wearing the kind of clothes that cover the whole body including the face (burka) that some muslim women wear. This is more like signaling, since there are like 12 people in all of Denmark who wear this on the regular. So much of the 'anti-immigration' policies could more properly be described as anti-muslim; so there is a problem with bias.
Hey I'm a Danish Canadian and can say that even as an insider, integrating here can be harder than most places. Like, networking is such an important thing and Danes tend to keep to their established friend groups so it can be very slow to build that out, not to mention silent forms of discrimination which can have a real effect. It would honestly be nice if we could at least try to include more positive incentives for people to integrate more instead of things like forced gentrification. How are people supposed to get comfortable with Danish and learn to eat rugbrød if native Danes don't want anything to do with them?
@@spacecanuk8316 You asked how immigrants are supposed to integrate properly when we don't wanna have anything to do with them. The truth is, and it pains me to say this, but... they aren't. The game was rigged from the beginning. We're just not such an open society as we've told ourselves for years that we were. I do not think immigrants have any shaping up to do here, I think it's on us as hosts, but sadly too many people would prefer to put the blame on immigrants instead of taking a good, hard look in the mirror.
This is really interesting to contrast with the US where our "left" wing party decided to go hard to the right on immigration and it backfired spectacularly. Granted, we haven't had an actual immigration crisis here in the states, just periods where our right wing party ramps up rhetoric to turn out voters.
The right wing controlled media here in the states has definitely screwed us on this issue… they just lied to the country about the democrats positions and it worked
@@donaghb7307in a country of how many? The farmers and other businesses are free to turn away the „illegals“ they’re hiring but I don’t see anyone blaming them for what’s basically slavery
@@Venvaneless Many do, and they should, because they are happy that there is a whole lot of illegal immigration. It’s a source of cheap labor. You see the agricultural lobby in many countries lobbying and advocating for immigration.
It is maybe also relevant to note the Danish right collapsed not only due to the social democrats but also due to absurd amounts of infighting. Just of the top of my head there are now about 6 right wing parties compared to 4 centre and left wing parties (My count might be wrong but I know LA, DD, DF, NB, V, K all have very similar platforms)
Also, just speaking as a Brit. If you look at British Future’s research into immigration, you’ll see that the British public thinks that 30-40% (don’t remember exactly) of the country’s current immigration is illegal. In reality its less than 5%. Same story when you look at the exaggeration of Pakistani grooming gangs (JimmyTheGiant made an excellent video on the topic). All of this peddled by our right wing media. However, if you ask people by sector if they want more immigrants. It’s yes, across the board. You average Brit is suffering from severe cognitive dissonance when it comes to this. However, instead of combatting this mass information, Labour and the Tories have been capitulating to the right and its done them no good. This doesnt mean Labour should increase immigration, but they should humanise the conversation. Open up safe and legal routes. Proving no real alternative will be their downfall just like the SDP in Weimar Germany imo. Also, the crux of what I’m saying is that I have a sneaky suspicion these Danish policies are going to come back to bite Denmark in the future. One thing about the UK is that multiracialism has become the norm. Yes we have ethnic enclaves, but those are mostly due to givernment mismanagement in the 60s/70s when the UK basically begged Azad Kashmiris to come to the UK, its not like they got to choose where to buy their homes. And studies show the the UK is getting continuously less segregated. Migration Observatory shows that Brits have become way less hostile to immigration over the decades. Ethnic minorities and Muslims are present at basically every level of British society. This policy of normalisation, I believe has managed to slow (but obviously not completely prevent) our rise in the Far Right. In Denmark, I fear that this is just prolonging the issue. Integration is a two way street.
One minor point of contention. The Danish SocDems are not true socialists. And that's not only obvious because they're SocDems, and not DemSocs, but because even though they're left-wing by the standards of many other European countries, they've been economically centrist by Nordic standards for many years now. It is important, I think, to view things in their proper context. The reality is that the SocDems are on life support at the moment, and there are many reasons for that, the Danish electoral system and the SocDems recent and very foolish decision to enter into an untraditional coalition government with two liberal (right-leaning) parties being just a few of them. Likewise, and I say this as somebody who lives in the Capitol and has voted SocDems on multiple occasions, their very harsh stance on immigration did not exactly endear them to traditional left-wing city-voters. However, I will say one thing, which might be controversial to left-wingers, I certainly take no pleasure from saying this: I do not think it would've been possible for the broader left coalition to win another election in the foreseeable future had the SocDems not toughened their stance on immigration. Public opinion is just not on my side. Anti-immigration sentiment is firmly entrenched in the country, and the only reason far-right parties aren't in charge in Denmark is because the SocDems stole a march on them and cancelled out their entire raison d'etre.
when we filipinos go work in other countries we ensure to assimilate to the host country as much as possible to the point that we dont even share our food (thats why filipino food is not as pronounced as other immigrant groups) we try to blend in really hard
Not everyone, not even all Filipinos, are able to audjust to life here in the west, for many reasons. Some immigrants end up living here in limbo, with their status being uncertain due to the laggard nature of the system, and bc of that end up living an insular, impoverished opportunity-starved life away from the dominant culture, ripe to be exploited by it.
Give what the people want, that is the job of governments. And the US is much more polarised on these issues, as most Dems are pro immigration while most republicans aren't, Europe is different as most people will change their opinions depending on what's happening.
It's a universal issue amongst the political extremes with different approaches. Centrists and corporatists want wage suppression so they want more immigrants. Racists and union workers don't want wage suppression and they both end up being anti-corporate by default. I'm all for literally allowing them to come here, but I want them to get all the same rights, get paid DOUBLE, and that they can't be fired for a year, and if they are they have 2 years to find a job not 60 days and the company has to fucken pay for their unemployment if they can't treat them well enough to get them to not quit. Instantly companies will stop looking at them as a way to fuck over Americans and they'll be way more picky who they are importing. Give them the option to hire Americans or go bankrupt.
@@MrBurnsExcellent From my point of view, our government missed a huuuuge opportunity for well-needed reform during the migrant crisis. We accepted all applicants which almost crushed the application centers. Many workers were left with burnout. What did we get for that? Same thing as before, but more of it. Immigrants were left to their own devices in a more and more austere economic policy environment. Less money for the areas that now needed more than ever before. More poverty -> more crime, people who don't know how things work here were thrown to the proverbial wolves and hoovered up by criminal gangs etc. That was the age of cheap loans, we could have increased the deficit and Keynesied ourself forward to a new era of our once proud welfare state. We had the opportunity at a time of direly needed increase in population. Instead we got tax cuts for the rich and more ammunition for the far right anti-immigration crowd. Really sad Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
before i watch the vid, didnt the social democrats (and not the entire left) of denmark adopted the rights' positions on immigration and restricted it? this vid is not anything original or worthwhile
I live in Denmark, and while we don't exactly have any Nigel Farage types at the helm, we aren't doing great on racism, no. We don't have a remotely progressive government, and haven't had in about decades. We are, albeit slowly, headed in the same direction as the UK.
i would say that if you have smbd like farage, you are in a very very fucked up situation, it might already be too late, but regarding denmark, im aware there was that one guy from denmark who burnt the quran in sweden also lithuania, where im from, it has already been not in a very good place for a while, but with its incoming new conservative party chair who was once a neonazi party deputy, it is rapidly shifting into a more of a bad place. one of the most notable exceptions to the far right european shift might be over most of the western world is essentially a big wheel of "right wing wins elections>things get worse>centrist challenges and wins>things get worse>right wing wins" and so on
@@Grogeous_Maximus you're never going to win against fascists if your goal is trying to suck on their teat. what the socdems did wasn't an attempt to resist the growing current international fascist movement, but to try and capitalize on them. that election win is a pyrrhic victory, not a real one. and the guy in the video is, whether he knows it or not, doing the same thing.
This is part of the reason why I think Bernie would've won 2016 (he was not winning 2020 tho). He was a lot more moderate on immigration than Hillary which would've taken the sails out of Trumps ship. I 100% believe it's worth it to be conservative on immigration to beat the far right because the main problem with the far right isn't their immigration views it's their opposition to institutions.
The 2024 American election demonstrated moving to the right on immigration doesn't work. The Harris campaign attempted to appear more hardline against immigration than Trump, yet it didn't help her numbers where it mattered. Now it's important to note America's issues with immigration aren't the same as Europe's.
Biggest issue is the talk about immigration no matter in the world is dominated by the worst and loudest voices. It's hard to voice genuine criticism at policy without either being called a name by either binary side.
@@itsmealex8959yes it doesn't seem like the US has an immigration crisis. Of anything ij the US migrants are actively beneficial to the economy, in Europe it's bit more messy in recent years
@@pantalaemon Straight to attacks, lol. It’s about culture changing too rapidly and the identity of nations fading away. If this happened outside of Europe, more people would likely be against it.
@ having to surrender part of your political beliefs in order to maintain power to prevent even something worse from occurring is a bitter pill of real politic to have to swallow. The fact that the international right wing media consensus has basically painted all immigration as awful and destroying pure blood or whatever the hell it is they mean is quite sad. I’m a farmer in Nebraska, I work with immigrants every day, some who followed the system and others who didn’t… Most are good people, they’re just trying to support their families, and those people who are salt of the earth. God-fearing good people are gonna have to go into hiding, accept substandard wages, and work hazardous positions because some fat blow heart nationalist politician says they’re the enemy… And there’s not a goddamn thing I can do, the light of God fades and the world grows a little colder
@@amk4956 Thanks for detailing your opinion, I honestly didn't expect you'd do it 😅😂. I agree with most of your points, but then again for Denmark's case, if they sacrificed this part of their positions then maybe it wasn't the most important part of it. This doesn't mean it will work everywhere, the immigration crisis in Europe is bigger than the US so anti-Immigration or being more controlled immigration is a more popular and a bit more justifiable stance. And btw you seem to be a very good-hearted person, have a nice day!
Okay, that's nice, but what is the long term effect of this? Just think about it for more than one second. Let's make a small jump back to 1932's Germany. What if, instead of being your average political parties, both, the SPD and KPD together with the "Zentrum" party started to employ the exact same narrative? Do you think people would have been like "Yes! It's the jevs! Now I will be voting for the SPD instead of the N*DAP!" No, of course not. As a matter of fact, the narrative that the Jevs are the major problem in the world, was pushed by the N*zis themselves. Most people at the time weren't antisemitic the same way Hortler and his party was. Why do I think that? What makes me believe that? It's actually simple, it's working the same way here in Germany and it's even worse this time. Let me explain. The AfD did poor in 2021 compared to 2017. The lost 2% because, guess what? The climate was a totally different one. Instead of pushing the "hurr durr immigrants!" thing, the media and the parties started to focus on climate change and the environment - all parties, because they thought that's what's on ever second voters mind. Your analysis does something that I find kinda strange. It feels like you think "voters" a monolithic block that can't be forged or changed, adapting to new circumstances over time. When the CDU started to use the same "hurr durr, immigrants" media outcry tactics, guess what didn't happen? Unlike in Denmark, the AfD just started to gain massively. Their talking points, their vocabulary and their style of promising the world while delivering nothing got copied left and right to the point that our current center to center left government started to also restrict immigration way harder than our conservatives. And? Did this help? No. They AfD gets stronger, because immigration is not *the* issue. It's just a policy that can be weaponized against the people. Have you ever asked yourself, why the regions with the lowest amount of immigrants are against immigration? Because they have no idea how they are being lied to. The US is another great example btw. From 2016 to 2020, many people didn't care about immigrants because the dems provided an alternate narrative to the one the republicans were pushing. When Biden took office, he just enacted the policies the republicans were asking for all along and it caused the opposite. A left wing party adopts the right wing policies on immigration, thus normalizing the hatred against them. I fail to see the substance in this video, I am sorry for that.
I think the reason these tactics didn’t work in the US and Germany comes down to timing. A lot of people saw the changes as minor-more like a quick fix to appease voters who were frustrated with immigration-rather than a real attempt to solve the problem. Because of that, they didn’t stop people from turning to far-right parties, which were already dominating the conversation. Another factor might be cultural differences. In Scandinavian countries, for example, there’s a lot more trust in the government compared to places like the US or Germany. That trust probably makes it easier for people to accept government policies, whereas skepticism is more common elsewhere, which might have undermined these efforts. Personally, I’m not right-wing, but I do think the way the immigration crisis was handled deserves criticism. It’s a complex issue that can’t just be solved with surface-level changes or by copying far-right talking points.
@max.5032 your last kinda nullifies the rest. I don't mind immigrants. But what I do mind is not even trying to provide any sort of plan for them to integrate and then ask why they aren't integrating. The Ukrainian immigrants have a lot to say about Germany and how hard it is to find work here and that's just unnecessary in my opinion.
If only the us government was as smart as the EU countries. If the democrats here were to take active immigration reform seriously such as deportations, H1B, etc it could be possible the GOP could collapse as they have slowly been doing since 2016 as they have changed into basically a new party the MAGA party. Tho I believe the real issue and the difference between Denmark and the US on immigration is that the US has lots of illegal immigration because the legal path is so complicated and not very well done that some people they’re only choice is to do illegal immigration if the US could reform their immigration policy so that people could integrate into US society in a legal pathway immigration wouldn’t be such an issue on the left and right
@@edgimosanimations3116 I disagree because I don't think that immigration is an "actual" problem in the US, illegal immigrants commit less crimes than most other group, put more money into the US economy than they take and they have other benefits... It's only an issue because people think it is a huge problem which is why it was such an important issue for voters not because it's an actual problem but because everyone says it's an actual problem. The actual solution for democrats would be to somehow control the narrative... It's crazy that everyone talks about how the mainstream media is so left wing in the US and the main issues in this election were whatever the republicans talked about and abortion... I feel like even if Joe Biden was able to make the amount of illegal crossings 0 it would still be a "huge issue". In Denmark and other EU countries I feel like there are real issues with immigration, however that just doesn't seem to apply in the US
Most of the illegal immigration are from destabilized central American countries. We installed pro-US governments that helped rob those countries. Like the 1954 Guatamalan CIA backed coup, support for the contra rebels in Nicaragua in 1980, support for the El Salvadorian military dictatorship, the 1989 operation Just Cause in Panama, etc. These countries are poor and have high inequality because of US intervention in their governments over decades. Also climate change is lowering crop yields. The people are leaving because they're poor & fleeing from instability. The US inflicted this on itself to help corporations make a quick buck. We caused the problem, or at the very least made it much worse than it would have been.
@@jeremyjackson7429This is also true. If we never did a bunch of CIA backed coups that overthrew democratic socialists back in the Cold War. There wouldn’t be illegal immigrants here now. The reason why they are here is because they are fleeing from US funded dictatorships
For me, if you are going to immigrate to a country. You need to learn the language and customs of said country. It sounds harsh but if you want an exact copy of laws/customs/language of your own country you are leaving then you obviously don’t want to leave said country
That’s impossible for any group though. Assimilation takes at least three generations. The first generation will always be foreigners, their children will not be, but they will still be the children of foreigners. By the third generation it’s no longer an ‘immigrant family’
@@TonyGModestoexcept that’s just not the case, a lot of the children of these migrants who were born in Europe also hold similar views and often speak very poor with the native language of the country they live in. For myself it feels as if a lot of immigrants take advantage of European freedoms and then complain about people expressing freedoms such as womens rights, lgbt and want these changed to fit their home country laws. They don’t want to be European, they want to change the culture, language and customs to fit themselves rather than adapt to their new home
@ And the next generation will be less so. This is a lesson that the US learned a long time ago. Your talking about an extremely young immigration wave, it’s barely 10 years old, these processes take a long time to play themselves. This isn’t the first time Europe has lost its mind about immigration either, if you ever get a chance check out Camp of the Saints. It’s a French book written in the 1970s that predicts imminent demographic doom from a wave of Indian immigrants- that in reality gradually dissipated and assimilated over the next few decades without much problem. The reaction now isn’t much different.
@@TonyGModestoI really could not care less if it’s younger immigration. I see this as the tolerance paradox, we cannot be tolerant of intolerance so if you do not want women or lgbt to have rights then you have no space in Europe which is a lot of the views of these migrants. The far right have figured this out and partly why they get more votes. If you want to live in an oppressive religious society then move to one but if you want to live in the freedoms of Europe. You need to accept and adapt to that culture
A lot of people leaving their home country don't wanna leave. Anyone you would call a refugee didn't leave because they wanted to, they left because they had to
“Parallel society”. Yeah, us Americans had that too but we called it “separate but equal”. It was during the Jim Crow segregation era. I’ll be the first to tell ya: it didn’t go well. 😏
Actually it's the opposite. Segregation was forced on African Americans because white Americans didn't want them to integrate and be equal citizens. Parallel society is the opposite, you have large immigrant and refugee groups forming their own separate communities and segregating themselves of their own volition, maintaining their culture, religion, customs speaking in their native tongue etc. And the Danish government and the majority of the public that voted for them want to break up the parallel societies and force them to integrate and become Danish or leave
@@calebayton9073 it's the opposite in a sense, but that doesn't make it good. forcing people to give up their culture and take on yours is still mighty fucked up.
@@Zenkrypt your comment speaks to a deep ignorance about what it's like to move to a different country. You don't speak the language, how are you going to fit in? So you learn the language, but by this point you've had to live in a community of people with the same ethnic roots for years, because you couldn't talk to anyone else. By this point the natives, who realistically never made an effort to engage you or invite you to begin with, probably view you as a shady bunch of outsiders that is best ignored. So how are you going to find your way into their society? Are you going to start giving up your style of dress, your religion, your language, your only social support network (i.e. your engagement with your own ethnic community) to try to fit into their society that's never given you any meaningful opening? The idea is so incredibly one-sided and silly. Real integration is hard work and is a two-way street, and foisting the entire burden of managing that off on the migrants shows that you're not interested in integration, really, you're just interested in them leaving.
People don’t have an obligation to have immigrants because of the sins of their ancestors. Treating immigration as quasi-reparations is a great way to make people more anti-immigrant
@@mohammedsarker5756 the war in iraq started 20 years ago my tigga, that wasn't your ancestors, that was just us. The war in Iraq, the Sudanese civil war, the Syrian civil war and the war in Afghanistan are probably the four conflicts currently driving migration into Europe more than any other factors. And every one of them is at least in part a consequence of Western meddling in Middle-Eastern affairs.
I suppose there's an argument to make here if you squint at this issue, but Denmark was never a major colonial power in the Global South, apart from a handful of very negligible trading posts and towns in India and Africa that were given to bigger European empires by the mid-19th century. It's one thing to make this argument about the UK or France, which did own most of the modern-day Global South within very living memory, but to foist the sins of modern imperialism on Denmark is farcical.
@ this isn't just about Denmark, every privileged nation on this planet is obliged to accept immigrants because every privileged nation exploits the global south. Being an internationalist only when it comes to exploitation is morally abhorrent. Nationalism is putrid and the rise of it is terrifying
@@pantalaemonAfghanistan before the west's intervention was still worse and it gave a generation of those people knowledge of what its like to grow up with the simple things like a stable supply chain and school, and safety. Your anti west rhetoric doesn't stand against groups Taliban and the Assad regime
Have you seen the messaging of Kamela and Biden in the last 6 months? That ship has sailed! Trump was right when he basically wanted to give her a maga hat during the debate 😂
I think for me. I am on the side of making immigration easier. But as far as handling them once they’re here. They should be required to take mandatory English classes and stuff like that. And imo. Any country that they are fleeing from. The country now taking in their refugees should try to help those people fight for freedom against corrupt regimes.
The Democrats are a center-left party. I don't get this obsession of framing them as some from non-committal, centrist, or even actually "right-wing" political group.
If you're talking about the US Democrats, it'd be an interest with accurately reflecting reality in the face of a bizarrely skewed political sensibility. More specifically the US Democrats are a very broad coalition - extraordinary broad - necessitated by its decrepit electoral system. For the same party to contain Joe Manchin, Kristen Sinema and Nanci Pelosi, who would be considered strongly corporatist right-wing figures most other places in the world, and still be considered a left-wing party is just weird. The US is so twisted it equates "Liberal" with "Leftist" - something that would be considered downright hilarious in Australia where it's largest single hard right-wing party is the Liberal party.
They are the more left wing party in a right wing capitalist country. They advocate for state intervention in the economy, which is a modern Liberal take, but I've never seen anyone argue for nationalisation of industries in the US, apart from some people for healthcare, and I think that is the real beginning of socialist, and therefore left wing, economics. Social is different. Also the US operates as an empire in many ways, it is hard to be left wing since imperialism is founded on capitalism.
as a european, i always laugh when people say the democrats are center left. By european standards, they're to the right of most center-right parties on most issues.
@@raggedcritical How is the US's interpretation of liberalism and leftism twisted? Why is it on the US to conform to "global" interpretations of political ideologies (which aren't universal; political ideologies vary widely across the world, even within the same countries), rather than on you to look into understanding what such differences are and how they exist? And why can't you go in-depth about this "bizarrely shewed political sensibility?" Like I agree with you that the Democrats are a broad coalition, but show me how you would consider Joe Manchin, Kristen Sinema and Nancy Pelosi to be "strongly corporatist right-wing figures" in "most other places in the world," especially when Nancy Pelosi is often distinguished by people as being more left-wing than the former two.
Who up sloaning they zone?
You know I am
Sloaning so hard rn
Holy shit he's evolving, he's got thumbnails now
Help, I'm stuck in the Sloan Zone!
The Danish social Democrats are projected to lose anywhere between 13-17 seats out of 50. They aren’t doing too well themselves.
But this is probably not to do with their immigrant stance is it?
As an American that owes my existence in America to immigration, I personally will always be pro-immigration. My view is that it’s not fair for me to pull the ladder up behind me.
Every American, that isn’t indigenous or black, owes their presence in this country to immigration…
@@marshall5912 Likewise, as a non-immigrant, I do not think it is fair to shut one's gates to people in need of shelter and safety. I understand that no country can take in the whole world, there must be an upper limit, but I do not think that any European country has reached that limit.
Unlike a lot of moderate and leftist parties in Europe, the Social Democrat party took the bold and unusual strategy of actually doing what the citizens of their country wanted regarding immigration and it worked. Truly a fascinating lesson.
So, basically, their policy is forced assimilation? As long as they aren't hypocritical about it, there's nothing wrong there. Also, What's their policy on normal immigration?
And then there's Belgium, especially the Francophone part, where the far-right has been shut out of government - and media in Walonia - and the media. And their cordon sanitaire seems to hold, especially among francophones.
The problem that the Far-Right in Walonia has, is that far-right in belgium traditionally also wants the Belgium state to dissolve into Waloons and Flemish, with Brussels being. . . whatever. That idea is very unpopular in Walonia (the french part of Belgium) as it is poorer than the Flemish part, and so there is a wealth transfer that is facilitated by the Belgium state.
Then again, Red States in the US also vote against federal programs, despite the fact they benefit more from them than Blue States, so what do I know.
Ok, so I'm Danish; and left-leaning. And it has been very hard to stomach what I regard as all out racist politics from a party that calls themselves socialist. For the past 25 years we have had first the center right in power propped up by further right anti-immigration (or rather, anti-immigrant) parties like the Danish People's Party. Then, when we have had left-wing governments during this period, they have been very eager to copy the anti-immigration politics of the right. And right now we have a coalition government over the center. Sure, it's nice that we are not contending with out and out fascists; but even so, much of their (the social democrats, the current governing party) bullshit is unconscionable, and some of it is downright inhuman.
Tbf nothing in socialism is neither pro or anti immigrants, the fact that social policies, immigration, Social progressivism and environmental/green policies are usually lumped together in left leaning politics is based on correlations rather than link between those issues, and I think the case of Denmark shows pretty well why the Left-Right political spectrum is a very limited tool to describe political groups. I am very interested to know about what inhuman and racist measures the government has taken, the examples in this video look a bit mild to me, but I assume there is more to it.
@@kayemni Socialists tend to be humanists. Idealists. We wanna build a system that's good for humans, all humans, not just the few. That's why socialists tend to be inclusive, but our SocDems are the opposite. I think they've turned their backs on their supposed ideology.
@@Boomerrage32 I agree but the keyword here is "tend", that's a correlation between the positions of peoples. Also, I don't think all anti-immigration policies are inherently not humanist. If you believe that more peoples coming will make everyone worse off, that is a good reason to be anti-immigration (whether this is a correct belief based on sound argument and correct data is another story).
@@kayemni You raise an interesting point. Suppose that there comes a point where the anti-immigration stance brings the most good. If you explore that line of reasoning as a socialist (and I think you must), you might ask the question: If socialism is supposed to be so inclusive that it is for everyone and any given country has a fixed ceiling for how many immigrants it can feasibly house and feed at the same time, is socialism even possible? Can a small country like Denmark achieve socialism by opening its borders to everyone or will socialism have to change in order to remain somewhat true to its original premise, paradoxical as that may sound? If you are a socialist, what are you willing to sacrifice to achieve your dream for a better and a more conscionable tomorrow? If you can't include everyone, who will you exclude?
Our SocDems have found an answer to that question that I'm not at all comfortable with but it's not like I've got a better answer so... hey-ho.
@@kayemni About inhuman racist measures, I was thinking about the measures that are mentioned in this video about breaking up closed communities or 'ghettos'. There has been several policies regarding this over the years, but specifically I was thinking about policies instituted in 2018 by the then center right government, but kept by the soc-dems who took power later; so they are supposedly alright with it. It includes measures like tearing down homes affordable by low-income families, increased punishment for certain things if you live in the designated area, punishments or restriction of aid to the family if their children have been involved in crimes or if their children miss too much school (!); and it is possible for an area to get designated as a problematic 'ghetto' even if there are no problems with criminality in the area; but if the people living there are to a large degree from or descendants from 'non-western' countries. Also, the laws against wearing the kind of clothes that cover the whole body including the face (burka) that some muslim women wear. This is more like signaling, since there are like 12 people in all of Denmark who wear this on the regular. So much of the 'anti-immigration' policies could more properly be described as anti-muslim; so there is a problem with bias.
Hey I'm a Danish Canadian and can say that even as an insider, integrating here can be harder than most places. Like, networking is such an important thing and Danes tend to keep to their established friend groups so it can be very slow to build that out, not to mention silent forms of discrimination which can have a real effect. It would honestly be nice if we could at least try to include more positive incentives for people to integrate more instead of things like forced gentrification. How are people supposed to get comfortable with Danish and learn to eat rugbrød if native Danes don't want anything to do with them?
Yeah, I think this is going to be remembered as something pretty horrible in the future.
scandinavia is already famous for its racism in the rest of Europe, and that's saying something.
@@spacecanuk8316 You asked how immigrants are supposed to integrate properly when we don't wanna have anything to do with them. The truth is, and it pains me to say this, but... they aren't.
The game was rigged from the beginning. We're just not such an open society as we've told ourselves for years that we were. I do not think immigrants have any shaping up to do here, I think it's on us as hosts, but sadly too many people would prefer to put the blame on immigrants instead of taking a good, hard look in the mirror.
Europeans who worship kings should stay in europe
So they shouldn't go there then or leave.
This is really interesting to contrast with the US where our "left" wing party decided to go hard to the right on immigration and it backfired spectacularly. Granted, we haven't had an actual immigration crisis here in the states, just periods where our right wing party ramps up rhetoric to turn out voters.
The right wing controlled media here in the states has definitely screwed us on this issue… they just lied to the country about the democrats positions and it worked
2 million illegal border crossings in 2023 isn't a crisis?
@@donaghb7307in a country of how many?
The farmers and other businesses are free to turn away the „illegals“ they’re hiring but I don’t see anyone blaming them for what’s basically slavery
@@donaghb7307Nope, just going by the previous years, half will be deported.
@@Venvaneless Many do, and they should, because they are happy that there is a whole lot of illegal immigration. It’s a source of cheap labor. You see the agricultural lobby in many countries lobbying and advocating for immigration.
To fully understand this you must realize that the Social Democrats had lost elections on immigration since 2001 in the wake of 9/11.
It is maybe also relevant to note the Danish right collapsed not only due to the social democrats but also due to absurd amounts of infighting. Just of the top of my head there are now about 6 right wing parties compared to 4 centre and left wing parties
(My count might be wrong but I know LA, DD, DF, NB, V, K all have very similar platforms)
Also, just speaking as a Brit. If you look at British Future’s research into immigration, you’ll see that the British public thinks that 30-40% (don’t remember exactly) of the country’s current immigration is illegal. In reality its less than 5%. Same story when you look at the exaggeration of Pakistani grooming gangs (JimmyTheGiant made an excellent video on the topic). All of this peddled by our right wing media.
However, if you ask people by sector if they want more immigrants. It’s yes, across the board. You average Brit is suffering from severe cognitive dissonance when it comes to this. However, instead of combatting this mass information, Labour and the Tories have been capitulating to the right and its done them no good. This doesnt mean Labour should increase immigration, but they should humanise the conversation. Open up safe and legal routes. Proving no real alternative will be their downfall just like the SDP in Weimar Germany imo.
Also, the crux of what I’m saying is that I have a sneaky suspicion these Danish policies are going to come back to bite Denmark in the future. One thing about the UK is that multiracialism has become the norm. Yes we have ethnic enclaves, but those are mostly due to givernment mismanagement in the 60s/70s when the UK basically begged Azad Kashmiris to come to the UK, its not like they got to choose where to buy their homes. And studies show the the UK is getting continuously less segregated. Migration Observatory shows that Brits have become way less hostile to immigration over the decades. Ethnic minorities and Muslims are present at basically every level of British society. This policy of normalisation, I believe has managed to slow (but obviously not completely prevent) our rise in the Far Right. In Denmark, I fear that this is just prolonging the issue. Integration is a two way street.
Most of the UK was very happy to accept asylum seekers when they came from Ukraine.
If you keep them out you will simply not have this issue, do you think danish people will go out and beg for multiculturalism?
One minor point of contention. The Danish SocDems are not true socialists. And that's not only obvious because they're SocDems, and not DemSocs, but because even though they're left-wing by the standards of many other European countries, they've been economically centrist by Nordic standards for many years now. It is important, I think, to view things in their proper context.
The reality is that the SocDems are on life support at the moment, and there are many reasons for that, the Danish electoral system and the SocDems recent and very foolish decision to enter into an untraditional coalition government with two liberal (right-leaning) parties being just a few of them. Likewise, and I say this as somebody who lives in the Capitol and has voted SocDems on multiple occasions, their very harsh stance on immigration did not exactly endear them to traditional left-wing city-voters. However, I will say one thing, which might be controversial to left-wingers, I certainly take no pleasure from saying this: I do not think it would've been possible for the broader left coalition to win another election in the foreseeable future had the SocDems not toughened their stance on immigration. Public opinion is just not on my side. Anti-immigration sentiment is firmly entrenched in the country, and the only reason far-right parties aren't in charge in Denmark is because the SocDems stole a march on them and cancelled out their entire raison d'etre.
Very interesting thank you!
when we filipinos go work in other countries we ensure to assimilate to the host country as much as possible to the point that we dont even share our food (thats why filipino food is not as pronounced as other immigrant groups) we try to blend in really hard
Not everyone, not even all Filipinos, are able to audjust to life here in the west, for many reasons. Some immigrants end up living here in limbo, with their status being uncertain due to the laggard nature of the system, and bc of that end up living an insular, impoverished opportunity-starved life away from the dominant culture, ripe to be exploited by it.
Nvm that was sad. I mean, I think Harris showed us moving to the right on immigration doesnt work. Also just morality…yk
Harris shows that opening border doesn't work and creating massive inflation doesn't work.
Give what the people want, that is the job of governments.
And the US is much more polarised on these issues, as most Dems are pro immigration while most republicans aren't, Europe is different as most people will change their opinions depending on what's happening.
It's a universal issue amongst the political extremes with different approaches. Centrists and corporatists want wage suppression so they want more immigrants. Racists and union workers don't want wage suppression and they both end up being anti-corporate by default.
I'm all for literally allowing them to come here, but I want them to get all the same rights, get paid DOUBLE, and that they can't be fired for a year, and if they are they have 2 years to find a job not 60 days and the company has to fucken pay for their unemployment if they can't treat them well enough to get them to not quit. Instantly companies will stop looking at them as a way to fuck over Americans and they'll be way more picky who they are importing. Give them the option to hire Americans or go bankrupt.
The problem with that is that without cheap controllable labor the corpos will just outsource everything.
@@Dave-go6pn you are trying to reconcile inherent contradictions of capitalism with bandaid solutions
@@Noo584its literally called tariffs. Or just flat bans. Or arresting the employers. People act like the government can’t ban outsourcing.
@@Dave-go6pn oh, i know they can. they just won't.
"How the Left became the right in Denmark" there i fixed the title for you.
Immigration isn't a left/right issue.
@@augth it most certainly has pulled the historically left part of my government to the right.
true that brother
So you think it should be pro migration?
@@MrBurnsExcellent From my point of view, our government missed a huuuuge opportunity for well-needed reform during the migrant crisis. We accepted all applicants which almost crushed the application centers. Many workers were left with burnout.
What did we get for that? Same thing as before, but more of it. Immigrants were left to their own devices in a more and more austere economic policy environment.
Less money for the areas that now needed more than ever before.
More poverty -> more crime, people who don't know how things work here were thrown to the proverbial wolves and hoovered up by criminal gangs etc.
That was the age of cheap loans, we could have increased the deficit and Keynesied ourself forward to a new era of our once proud welfare state. We had the opportunity at a time of direly needed increase in population. Instead we got tax cuts for the rich and more ammunition for the far right anti-immigration crowd.
Really sad
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
before i watch the vid, didnt the social democrats (and not the entire left) of denmark adopted the rights' positions on immigration and restricted it?
this vid is not anything original or worthwhile
I live in Denmark, and while we don't exactly have any Nigel Farage types at the helm, we aren't doing great on racism, no. We don't have a remotely progressive government, and haven't had in about decades. We are, albeit slowly, headed in the same direction as the UK.
i would say that if you have smbd like farage, you are in a very very fucked up situation, it might already be too late, but regarding denmark, im aware there was that one guy from denmark who burnt the quran in sweden
also lithuania, where im from, it has already been not in a very good place for a while, but with its incoming new conservative party chair who was once a neonazi party deputy, it is rapidly shifting into a more of a bad place. one of the most notable exceptions to the far right european shift might be over
most of the western world is essentially a big wheel of "right wing wins elections>things get worse>centrist challenges and wins>things get worse>right wing wins" and so on
@@Grogeous_Maximus
you're never going to win against fascists if your goal is trying to suck on their teat. what the socdems did wasn't an attempt to resist the growing current international fascist movement, but to try and capitalize on them. that election win is a pyrrhic victory, not a real one. and the guy in the video is, whether he knows it or not, doing the same thing.
on the other side, Sweden turning quite right recently
Yea…. Because of immigration. That’s the point of the video. But they aren’t against most left leaning policies, just immigration
Also Finland. In Finland the populist anti-immgration party is even in the government unlike in Sweden.
I do agree with the anti-parallel society approach. But to do this, you need a manageable amount of migrants.
Such values and more are crucified in the wake of a far-right victory.
Thank you for the European insight!
id like to see a copy paste of this in the uk but the ruling party and population of England is too thick
what in the new thumbnail
Scary isn’t it?
@@Msloan98 What's scarier is that you stopped adding descriptions
If the left must take a far right position on immigration to keep the majority happy, then let them.
Why's this in 480p?
This is part of the reason why I think Bernie would've won 2016 (he was not winning 2020 tho). He was a lot more moderate on immigration than Hillary which would've taken the sails out of Trumps ship. I 100% believe it's worth it to be conservative on immigration to beat the far right because the main problem with the far right isn't their immigration views it's their opposition to institutions.
The 2024 American election demonstrated moving to the right on immigration doesn't work. The Harris campaign attempted to appear more hardline against immigration than Trump, yet it didn't help her numbers where it mattered. Now it's important to note America's issues with immigration aren't the same as Europe's.
Biggest issue is the talk about immigration no matter in the world is dominated by the worst and loudest voices.
It's hard to voice genuine criticism at policy without either being called a name by either binary side.
@@itsmealex8959yes it doesn't seem like the US has an immigration crisis. Of anything ij the US migrants are actively beneficial to the economy, in Europe it's bit more messy in recent years
They beat the right, but what did they lose in the process
Who cares? Ppl don’t want to get replaced.
@@lionelmessisburner7393 nobody's replacing you you absolute dillweed, don't worry -- we don't need another one of you.
@@pantalaemon Straight to attacks, lol. It’s about culture changing too rapidly and the identity of nations fading away. If this happened outside of Europe, more people would likely be against it.
Well… this was depressing
why you think that ?
@ having to surrender part of your political beliefs in order to maintain power to prevent even something worse from occurring is a bitter pill of real politic to have to swallow.
The fact that the international right wing media consensus has basically painted all immigration as awful and destroying pure blood or whatever the hell it is they mean is quite sad.
I’m a farmer in Nebraska, I work with immigrants every day, some who followed the system and others who didn’t… Most are good people, they’re just trying to support their families, and those people who are salt of the earth. God-fearing good people are gonna have to go into hiding, accept substandard wages, and work hazardous positions because some fat blow heart nationalist politician says they’re the enemy… And there’s not a goddamn thing I can do, the light of God fades and the world grows a little colder
@@amk4956 Thanks for detailing your opinion, I honestly didn't expect you'd do it 😅😂.
I agree with most of your points, but then again for Denmark's case, if they sacrificed this part of their positions then maybe it wasn't the most important part of it. This doesn't mean it will work everywhere, the immigration crisis in Europe is bigger than the US so anti-Immigration or being more controlled immigration is a more popular and a bit more justifiable stance. And btw you seem to be a very good-hearted person, have a nice day!
Actually it’s a good thing. Ppl don’t hate leftist policies, they just don’t want to get replaced. Aka they hate immigrants
Immigration* especially illegal
Okay, that's nice, but what is the long term effect of this? Just think about it for more than one second.
Let's make a small jump back to 1932's Germany. What if, instead of being your average political parties, both, the SPD and KPD together with the "Zentrum" party started to employ the exact same narrative?
Do you think people would have been like "Yes! It's the jevs! Now I will be voting for the SPD instead of the N*DAP!"
No, of course not. As a matter of fact, the narrative that the Jevs are the major problem in the world, was pushed by the N*zis themselves. Most people at the time weren't antisemitic the same way Hortler and his party was.
Why do I think that? What makes me believe that?
It's actually simple, it's working the same way here in Germany and it's even worse this time. Let me explain. The AfD did poor in 2021 compared to 2017. The lost 2% because, guess what? The climate was a totally different one. Instead of pushing the "hurr durr immigrants!" thing, the media and the parties started to focus on climate change and the environment - all parties, because they thought that's what's on ever second voters mind.
Your analysis does something that I find kinda strange. It feels like you think "voters" a monolithic block that can't be forged or changed, adapting to new circumstances over time.
When the CDU started to use the same "hurr durr, immigrants" media outcry tactics, guess what didn't happen? Unlike in Denmark, the AfD just started to gain massively. Their talking points, their vocabulary and their style of promising the world while delivering nothing got copied left and right to the point that our current center to center left government started to also restrict immigration way harder than our conservatives.
And? Did this help?
No. They AfD gets stronger, because immigration is not *the* issue. It's just a policy that can be weaponized against the people.
Have you ever asked yourself, why the regions with the lowest amount of immigrants are against immigration? Because they have no idea how they are being lied to.
The US is another great example btw. From 2016 to 2020, many people didn't care about immigrants because the dems provided an alternate narrative to the one the republicans were pushing. When Biden took office, he just enacted the policies the republicans were asking for all along and it caused the opposite.
A left wing party adopts the right wing policies on immigration, thus normalizing the hatred against them.
I fail to see the substance in this video, I am sorry for that.
I think the reason these tactics didn’t work in the US and Germany comes down to timing. A lot of people saw the changes as minor-more like a quick fix to appease voters who were frustrated with immigration-rather than a real attempt to solve the problem. Because of that, they didn’t stop people from turning to far-right parties, which were already dominating the conversation.
Another factor might be cultural differences. In Scandinavian countries, for example, there’s a lot more trust in the government compared to places like the US or Germany. That trust probably makes it easier for people to accept government policies, whereas skepticism is more common elsewhere, which might have undermined these efforts.
Personally, I’m not right-wing, but I do think the way the immigration crisis was handled deserves criticism. It’s a complex issue that can’t just be solved with surface-level changes or by copying far-right talking points.
@max.5032 your last kinda nullifies the rest. I don't mind immigrants. But what I do mind is not even trying to provide any sort of plan for them to integrate and then ask why they aren't integrating.
The Ukrainian immigrants have a lot to say about Germany and how hard it is to find work here and that's just unnecessary in my opinion.
"Socialists"
Yeah Social Democrats
If only the us government was as smart as the EU countries.
If the democrats here were to take active immigration reform seriously such as deportations, H1B, etc it could be possible the GOP could collapse as they have slowly been doing since 2016 as they have changed into basically a new party the MAGA party.
Tho I believe the real issue and the difference between Denmark and the US on immigration is that the US has lots of illegal immigration because the legal path is so complicated and not very well done that some people they’re only choice is to do illegal immigration if the US could reform their immigration policy so that people could integrate into US society in a legal pathway immigration wouldn’t be such an issue on the left and right
@@edgimosanimations3116 I disagree because I don't think that immigration is an "actual" problem in the US, illegal immigrants commit less crimes than most other group, put more money into the US economy than they take and they have other benefits... It's only an issue because people think it is a huge problem which is why it was such an important issue for voters not because it's an actual problem but because everyone says it's an actual problem. The actual solution for democrats would be to somehow control the narrative... It's crazy that everyone talks about how the mainstream media is so left wing in the US and the main issues in this election were whatever the republicans talked about and abortion... I feel like even if Joe Biden was able to make the amount of illegal crossings 0 it would still be a "huge issue". In Denmark and other EU countries I feel like there are real issues with immigration, however that just doesn't seem to apply in the US
Most of the illegal immigration are from destabilized central American countries. We installed pro-US governments that helped rob those countries. Like the 1954 Guatamalan CIA backed coup, support for the contra rebels in Nicaragua in 1980, support for the El Salvadorian military dictatorship, the 1989 operation Just Cause in Panama, etc.
These countries are poor and have high inequality because of US intervention in their governments over decades. Also climate change is lowering crop yields. The people are leaving because they're poor & fleeing from instability. The US inflicted this on itself to help corporations make a quick buck. We caused the problem, or at the very least made it much worse than it would have been.
Exactly. It’s never been an illegal immigration problem. It’s always been about legally immigrating is difficult.
@@jeremyjackson7429This is also true. If we never did a bunch of CIA backed coups that overthrew democratic socialists back in the Cold War. There wouldn’t be illegal immigrants here now. The reason why they are here is because they are fleeing from US funded dictatorships
For me, if you are going to immigrate to a country. You need to learn the language and customs of said country. It sounds harsh but if you want an exact copy of laws/customs/language of your own country you are leaving then you obviously don’t want to leave said country
That’s impossible for any group though. Assimilation takes at least three generations. The first generation will always be foreigners, their children will not be, but they will still be the children of foreigners. By the third generation it’s no longer an ‘immigrant family’
@@TonyGModestoexcept that’s just not the case, a lot of the children of these migrants who were born in Europe also hold similar views and often speak very poor with the native language of the country they live in. For myself it feels as if a lot of immigrants take advantage of European freedoms and then complain about people expressing freedoms such as womens rights, lgbt and want these changed to fit their home country laws. They don’t want to be European, they want to change the culture, language and customs to fit themselves rather than adapt to their new home
@
And the next generation will be less so. This is a lesson that the US learned a long time ago. Your talking about an extremely young immigration wave, it’s barely 10 years old, these processes take a long time to play themselves.
This isn’t the first time Europe has lost its mind about immigration either, if you ever get a chance check out Camp of the Saints. It’s a French book written in the 1970s that predicts imminent demographic doom from a wave of Indian immigrants- that in reality gradually dissipated and assimilated over the next few decades without much problem. The reaction now isn’t much different.
@@TonyGModestoI really could not care less if it’s younger immigration. I see this as the tolerance paradox, we cannot be tolerant of intolerance so if you do not want women or lgbt to have rights then you have no space in Europe which is a lot of the views of these migrants. The far right have figured this out and partly why they get more votes. If you want to live in an oppressive religious society then move to one but if you want to live in the freedoms of Europe. You need to accept and adapt to that culture
A lot of people leaving their home country don't wanna leave. Anyone you would call a refugee didn't leave because they wanted to, they left because they had to
“Parallel society”.
Yeah, us Americans had that too but we called it “separate but equal”.
It was during the Jim Crow segregation era.
I’ll be the first to tell ya: it didn’t go well. 😏
Actually it's the opposite. Segregation was forced on African Americans because white Americans didn't want them to integrate and be equal citizens. Parallel society is the opposite, you have large immigrant and refugee groups forming their own separate communities and segregating themselves of their own volition, maintaining their culture, religion, customs speaking in their native tongue etc. And the Danish government and the majority of the public that voted for them want to break up the parallel societies and force them to integrate and become Danish or leave
@@calebayton9073 it's the opposite in a sense, but that doesn't make it good. forcing people to give up their culture and take on yours is still mighty fucked up.
@@pantalaemon don't come to a country then if you don't wanna be a part of it.
@@pantalaemon I mean if you don't want to be part of the culture, I have to ask, what are you doing here?
@@Zenkrypt your comment speaks to a deep ignorance about what it's like to move to a different country. You don't speak the language, how are you going to fit in? So you learn the language, but by this point you've had to live in a community of people with the same ethnic roots for years, because you couldn't talk to anyone else. By this point the natives, who realistically never made an effort to engage you or invite you to begin with, probably view you as a shady bunch of outsiders that is best ignored. So how are you going to find your way into their society? Are you going to start giving up your style of dress, your religion, your language, your only social support network (i.e. your engagement with your own ethnic community) to try to fit into their society that's never given you any meaningful opening?
The idea is so incredibly one-sided and silly. Real integration is hard work and is a two-way street, and foisting the entire burden of managing that off on the migrants shows that you're not interested in integration, really, you're just interested in them leaving.
What makes anti immigration morally abhorrent is imperialism.
People don’t have an obligation to have immigrants because of the sins of their ancestors. Treating immigration as quasi-reparations is a great way to make people more anti-immigrant
@@mohammedsarker5756 the war in iraq started 20 years ago my tigga, that wasn't your ancestors, that was just us.
The war in Iraq, the Sudanese civil war, the Syrian civil war and the war in Afghanistan are probably the four conflicts currently driving migration into Europe more than any other factors. And every one of them is at least in part a consequence of Western meddling in Middle-Eastern affairs.
I suppose there's an argument to make here if you squint at this issue, but Denmark was never a major colonial power in the Global South, apart from a handful of very negligible trading posts and towns in India and Africa that were given to bigger European empires by the mid-19th century. It's one thing to make this argument about the UK or France, which did own most of the modern-day Global South within very living memory, but to foist the sins of modern imperialism on Denmark is farcical.
@ this isn't just about Denmark, every privileged nation on this planet is obliged to accept immigrants because every privileged nation exploits the global south. Being an internationalist only when it comes to exploitation is morally abhorrent. Nationalism is putrid and the rise of it is terrifying
@@pantalaemonAfghanistan before the west's intervention was still worse and it gave a generation of those people knowledge of what its like to grow up with the simple things like a stable supply chain and school, and safety.
Your anti west rhetoric doesn't stand against groups Taliban and the Assad regime
Woooooah big thumbnail guy now?
This would never work in the US. Taking care of immigrants is too central to left and center right politics.
Have you seen the messaging of Kamela and Biden in the last 6 months? That ship has sailed! Trump was right when he basically wanted to give her a maga hat during the debate 😂
I think for me. I am on the side of making immigration easier. But as far as handling them once they’re here. They should be required to take mandatory English classes and stuff like that. And imo. Any country that they are fleeing from. The country now taking in their refugees should try to help those people fight for freedom against corrupt regimes.
That's what you think, what about voters as a whole? they were the ones that made the left take this stance.
The Democrats are a center-left party. I don't get this obsession of framing them as some from non-committal, centrist, or even actually "right-wing" political group.
If you're talking about the US Democrats, it'd be an interest with accurately reflecting reality in the face of a bizarrely skewed political sensibility. More specifically the US Democrats are a very broad coalition - extraordinary broad - necessitated by its decrepit electoral system. For the same party to contain Joe Manchin, Kristen Sinema and Nanci Pelosi, who would be considered strongly corporatist right-wing figures most other places in the world, and still be considered a left-wing party is just weird. The US is so twisted it equates "Liberal" with "Leftist" - something that would be considered downright hilarious in Australia where it's largest single hard right-wing party is the Liberal party.
They are the more left wing party in a right wing capitalist country. They advocate for state intervention in the economy, which is a modern Liberal take, but I've never seen anyone argue for nationalisation of industries in the US, apart from some people for healthcare, and I think that is the real beginning of socialist, and therefore left wing, economics. Social is different.
Also the US operates as an empire in many ways, it is hard to be left wing since imperialism is founded on capitalism.
as a european, i always laugh when people say the democrats are center left. By european standards, they're to the right of most center-right parties on most issues.
@@pantalaemon
They are more often on the left on most issues than most European center-left parties, so I don't know what you are taking about.
@@raggedcritical
How is the US's interpretation of liberalism and leftism twisted? Why is it on the US to conform to "global" interpretations of political ideologies (which aren't universal; political ideologies vary widely across the world, even within the same countries), rather than on you to look into understanding what such differences are and how they exist?
And why can't you go in-depth about this "bizarrely shewed political sensibility?" Like I agree with you that the Democrats are a broad coalition, but show me how you would consider Joe Manchin, Kristen Sinema and Nancy Pelosi to be "strongly corporatist right-wing figures" in "most other places in the world," especially when Nancy Pelosi is often distinguished by people as being more left-wing than the former two.
Sorry mate, but the Liberal Democrat’s aren’t the third largest party by votes and seats in the UK, Reform come in 4th.
He said by vote share.
Love your vids btw, Sormon
@@Msloan98 Thanks
you sound aussie, you should do aussie politics. example; how the fee free tafe can be a game changer to the economy