I'm loving this channel. Long ago I had quite a library on the sport. It seemed I was alone in this obsession. Even the guys I boxed and wrestled with had little to no interest in the history and evolution of martial arts. I'm no fan of TH-cam, but I can't stay away from this subject. Thank you.
Really enjoying your historical knowledge and articulate narration. Very informative. You should do a series on Irish faction and stick fighting to add to your playlist. You would definitely increase your subs and broaden your audience.
Thank you ladd; I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation. Broughton was indeed a true gentleman of the sport. We should appreciate both his rules and influence. Above I thank you for your documentary. God bless you and your family my ladd.👌👍
I have only recently come across your channel, having been brought here via the inestimable Matt Easton. I confess to being hooked, having been largely ignorant of the development of fisticuffs before the 20th century, which is every bit as fascinating as any of the martial arts involving sword play.
Man ur 1 passionate person on the art of fighting, and the way u tell them is really mind grabbing stuff. Thank you, I'm enjoying ur channel very much and may ur channel grow to a point where u don't have to work anymore and have guest that maybe related to any of these old school stories on prize fighters and give us more stories that isn't documented. I'm sure Mike Tyson would love channel mate so he can learn more about fighting hero's and add to his already endless stories of Boxer's, fighters , Gladiators ect. Well done on find a unique Niche in martial arts (Old School) and unique n original stories. Funny to believe the English were looked upon by rest of the world as having the best fighters in the world. There must be 1000s of great stories ready to be told again. Mick here reporting from Ireland, there has to be a lot of stories on Irish fighters too over the last 300 yrs?? I often wondered where the term " The Fighting Irish" came from? Keep up the good work mate 🇨🇮 👊 🤼♂️ 🇬🇧
Great work! Do you have any videos that deal with the history before this? I was always under the assumption that boxing grew out of the show of people fighting on stage with sharp weapons. Is this true?
Congratulations, another fine video! You're right about rule changes changing the game. in the modern era just look to MMA and see how rule changes have changed it.
That was excellent. One question, can you speak to why the distinction about "grasping by hams, or breaches" when you have the overall rule of no taking hold below the waist? Am I missing something here?
I don't think you're missing anything. I suspect it was simply an attempt to be thorough. That grasping the hams or breaches were specific things that happened frequently and so were mentioned specifically.
Really enjoying your channel, another interesting fighter to do a vid about would be hall of fame Jem Mace, bare knuckle and gloved heavyweight world champion, boxing teacher of Lord Lonsdale, one of the first worldwide sporting stars, father of modern boxing, friend of wyatt earp, Charles dickens...... My Great grandfather x3
Fantastic, you should be on telly. Out of interest, after Broughton's rules, were purring and elbow strikes actually used in fights? Or were they frowned on as bad sportsmanship, even if technically allowed? If using a Mendoza style system that disdains rounds, elbows can make a useful (and safer - for the person throwing the elbow) substitute for hooks. Are you going to cover the Mendoza/Humphries trilogy in your Greatest Asskickings series? Would love to see that.
I have no doubt that they were still used to some degree, but you are right to suggest they were frowned upon. Mendoza and Humphries are definitely going to be making an appearance at some stage!
Great work as always! I don't know much about wrestling, so why are grapples below the waist so dangerous? When I hear that description I just think of a rugby tackle, but I'm assuming it's completely different to that?
Essentially when you throw someone holding their upper body it's the lower body that moves and "hits", when you hold the legs it's the upper body that moves and hits. It's not a hard and fast rule, but when you're fighting on Oak boards, or hard packed earth you can't take the risks you can on mats or spring floors.
Speaking of Broughton's rules, I was wondering if you could talk one day about the Rough and Tumble variant of pugilism, which was supposed to be quite brutal. Back then to my understanding, two dueling men could choose to fight "fair and square" (using broughton's rules) or "rough and tumble" (no rules). This is supposed to be the kind of fighting we see in the Gangs of New York movie.
Understanding the source of these rules definitely gives us some hints about what may have been lost. Especially with ground fighting being restricted. Were there parallels with wrestling at the time for creating safety for the fighters? I'm curious about what the origin of pinning decided the victor, especially today as we see sports like BJJ take especial pride in fighting from the back.
When I hear these stories told, I visualize them and think the BBC should one day do a docudrama series on the history of pugilism in Britain someday- they can just call it "The Pugilists".
Hey! What ever happened to those pugilism gloves you were having made? I paid for two pairs and had a student of mine pay for a pair over a year ago and then you seemed to disappear. When I tried to find out more, I heard from others that they had the same experience. Am I correct in assuming we are all out money and we will never receive either a refund or the gloves?
Ahhh the good ole' days of fighting with fists, and knees, and kicks, and elbows, and grappling.... swords! sticks! A sip of Port during the break! I say we bring back such gentlemanly sport!
A question I often ponder, if Broughton was champion of all England, why were the other 2 disciplines dropped within a generation of teacher to student? Who was indeed the last real champion?
Broughton was a good swordsman in his own right, and often fought with weapons in the early days. As a promoter he put on lots of bouts of swordplay and cudgelling, but times had changed. The public had less appetite for it, and the sport was essentially controlled by The Fancy, and they wanted pugilism, not fencing. So it became a fun exhibition as a sideshow to the real art of boxing.
@@EnglishMartialArts Thanks for the reply and I guess that logic sums it up. I did wonder if any of it coincided with the discouragement of carrying arms ? And it is a shame that somewhere the tradition of winning all 3 bouts wasn't somewhere preserved. Quite obviously fencing could coexist on it's own merit and most surely predated prize/stage fights. It also found it's way into Olympic sports. Cudgelling however, Poor poor Cudgelling. If only there was a Broughton's interjection of British stick fighting.
An interesting question. A few of us had a play with an amateur pugilism ruleaet which kinda works. But the difficult bit is keeping the violene levels low when you include clinching or grappling... Pro level rules would be a very different thing.
Just to be contrarian, I wonder if the “civilizing” of boxing has led to greater brain damage from the sport. Padded gloves and the elimination of many brutal fight-ending techniques has led to more head blows. Banging on a man’s skull with one’s bare knuckles seems like less of a thing. Or am I way off base here?
Nope, 100% spot on. Modern pro boxing does far more damage to your brain than Bare knuckle ever did. It's just people don't see the bleeding so they think it's fine.
@@EnglishMartialArts Similar to American football vs rugby. The latter causes far more superficial injuries but the armored behemoths of the NFL accrue multiple small concussions.
Rugby definitely replaced Cnapan, but I don't think it's fair to say that it was the original version. Similar games were played all across the British Isles throughout the early Middle ages. Good luck against Ireland!
I'm loving this channel. Long ago I had quite a library on the sport. It seemed I was alone in this obsession. Even the guys I boxed and wrestled with had little to no interest in the history and evolution of martial arts. I'm no fan of TH-cam, but I can't stay away from this subject. Thank you.
It's certainly a niche area of interest that's for sure! Glad you liked the video.
Very interesting. Worlds oldest sport.
This channel has rekindled my love of the noble sport. Highly interesting and informative. Boxing is amazing. Can't be beaten.
Really pleased to hear that!
Really enjoying your historical knowledge and articulate narration. Very informative. You should do a series on Irish faction and stick fighting to add to your playlist. You would definitely increase your subs and broaden your audience.
Thank you ladd; I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation. Broughton was indeed a true gentleman of the sport. We should appreciate both his rules and influence. Above I thank you for your documentary. God bless you and your family my ladd.👌👍
Thank you!
You are welcome ladd. Perhaps in future you will have a tutorial for elders. So we may lean to use electronic means more efficiently.😁
I have only recently come across your channel, having been brought here via the inestimable Matt Easton. I confess to being hooked, having been largely ignorant of the development of fisticuffs before the 20th century, which is every bit as fascinating as any of the martial arts involving sword play.
I think of it more as a disease than an interest!
Man ur 1 passionate person on the art of fighting, and the way u tell them is really mind grabbing stuff. Thank you, I'm enjoying ur channel very much and may ur channel grow to a point where u don't have to work anymore and have guest that maybe related to any of these old school stories on prize fighters and give us more stories that isn't documented. I'm sure Mike Tyson would love channel mate so he can learn more about fighting hero's and add to his already endless stories of Boxer's, fighters , Gladiators ect. Well done on find a unique Niche in martial arts (Old School) and unique n original stories. Funny to believe the English were looked upon by rest of the world as having the best fighters in the world. There must be 1000s of great stories ready to be told again. Mick here reporting from Ireland, there has to be a lot of stories on Irish fighters too over the last 300 yrs?? I often wondered where the term " The Fighting Irish" came from? Keep up the good work mate 🇨🇮 👊 🤼♂️ 🇬🇧
Sorry, only just saw this comment! Thanks very much for the kind words.
Great information. Thanks for the lecture.
My pleasure!
Another excellent video! I've been enjoying your musical choices I must say, along with everything else.
I think I've adopted that one as the end theme for pugilism videos!
Great work! Do you have any videos that deal with the history before this? I was always under the assumption that boxing grew out of the show of people fighting on stage with sharp weapons. Is this true?
Pretty much yes. I've done one or two, but am planning to revisit some of it soon.
Boxing also started in Mexico with bar fights at seaports. That's why the mexican style is brawling headfirst.
Every video better than the last
Thank you!
Great videos, this is the second I've seen and it definitely won't be the last. Kia ora from New Zealand!
ReSpekt nach nz,ihr seid Meister im boxen bareknuckle
Your best video so far! This was amazing!
Thank you!
Your channel is so under rated. Wish you nothing but success mate love your videos.
That you Judo Dad?
Also thank you!
A scholar and a gentleman sir.
😊
Congratulations, another fine video! You're right about rule changes changing the game. in the modern era just look to MMA and see how rule changes have changed it.
Thank you!
So..
eye gouging, groin smashing and biting were still allowed, seems reasonable
Yep, what is missing from the rules is quite telling!
Might have been some incentive not to do these knowing they could be done to you (?)
@@michaeleager4635
The same could be said for any attack
That was excellent.
One question, can you speak to why the distinction about "grasping by hams, or breaches" when you have the overall rule of no taking hold below the waist? Am I missing something here?
I don't think you're missing anything. I suspect it was simply an attempt to be thorough. That grasping the hams or breaches were specific things that happened frequently and so were mentioned specifically.
Fantastic sir fantastic
Thank you!
Really enjoying your channel, another interesting fighter to do a vid about would be hall of fame Jem Mace, bare knuckle and gloved heavyweight world champion, boxing teacher of Lord Lonsdale, one of the first worldwide sporting stars, father of modern boxing, friend of wyatt earp, Charles dickens...... My Great grandfather x3
That's a pretty cool family connection!
Fantastic, you should be on telly. Out of interest, after Broughton's rules, were purring and elbow strikes actually used in fights? Or were they frowned on as bad sportsmanship, even if technically allowed? If using a Mendoza style system that disdains rounds, elbows can make a useful (and safer - for the person throwing the elbow) substitute for hooks. Are you going to cover the Mendoza/Humphries trilogy in your Greatest Asskickings series? Would love to see that.
I have no doubt that they were still used to some degree, but you are right to suggest they were frowned upon.
Mendoza and Humphries are definitely going to be making an appearance at some stage!
Nice, thanks mate 👌
Great work as always!
I don't know much about wrestling, so why are grapples below the waist so dangerous? When I hear that description I just think of a rugby tackle, but I'm assuming it's completely different to that?
Essentially when you throw someone holding their upper body it's the lower body that moves and "hits", when you hold the legs it's the upper body that moves and hits.
It's not a hard and fast rule, but when you're fighting on Oak boards, or hard packed earth you can't take the risks you can on mats or spring floors.
Speaking of Broughton's rules, I was wondering if you could talk one day about the Rough and Tumble variant of pugilism, which was supposed to be quite brutal. Back then to my understanding, two dueling men could choose to fight "fair and square" (using broughton's rules) or "rough and tumble" (no rules). This is supposed to be the kind of fighting we see in the Gangs of New York movie.
Understanding the source of these rules definitely gives us some hints about what may have been lost. Especially with ground fighting being restricted. Were there parallels with wrestling at the time for creating safety for the fighters? I'm curious about what the origin of pinning decided the victor, especially today as we see sports like BJJ take especial pride in fighting from the back.
It's all very shrouded and tricky to find any clear information. It's fascinsting though. Maybe one day we'll know more.
@@EnglishMartialArts definitely fascinating! Thank you for your presentation of source material!
Do a great ghama video .
He is the daniel mendonza equivalent in amateur wrestling .
When I hear these stories told, I visualize them and think the BBC should one day do a docudrama series on the history of pugilism in Britain someday- they can just call it "The Pugilists".
Hey! What ever happened to those pugilism gloves you were having made? I paid for two pairs and had a student of mine pay for a pair over a year ago and then you seemed to disappear.
When I tried to find out more, I heard from others that they had the same experience. Am I correct in assuming we are all out money and we will never receive either a refund or the gloves?
Hi Tristan, email me the details of what you ordered and I'll make sure they get to you. I talked about it in an earlier video.
Curious, why is John L. Sullivan considered to be the first true heavy weight champion of the world?
It's mainly about recognition. He bridged the LPR and MOQ eras and much like Figg originally was good enough that no-one disagreed when he claimed it.
Ahhh the good ole' days of fighting with fists, and knees, and kicks, and elbows, and grappling.... swords! sticks! A sip of Port during the break!
I say we bring back such gentlemanly sport!
Er ist zurück
A question I often ponder, if Broughton was champion of all England, why were the other 2 disciplines dropped within a generation of teacher to student?
Who was indeed the last real champion?
Broughton was a good swordsman in his own right, and often fought with weapons in the early days. As a promoter he put on lots of bouts of swordplay and cudgelling, but times had changed. The public had less appetite for it, and the sport was essentially controlled by The Fancy, and they wanted pugilism, not fencing. So it became a fun exhibition as a sideshow to the real art of boxing.
@@EnglishMartialArts Thanks for the reply and I guess that logic sums it up. I did wonder if any of it coincided with the discouragement of carrying arms ?
And it is a shame that somewhere the tradition of winning all 3 bouts wasn't somewhere preserved.
Quite obviously fencing could coexist on it's own merit and most surely predated prize/stage fights. It also found it's way into Olympic sports.
Cudgelling however, Poor poor Cudgelling.
If only there was a Broughton's interjection of British stick fighting.
If you were to create a ruleset today what your it include what wouldn't it include?
An interesting question. A few of us had a play with an amateur pugilism ruleaet which kinda works. But the difficult bit is keeping the violene levels low when you include clinching or grappling...
Pro level rules would be a very different thing.
@@EnglishMartialArts warum? Boxen ist gewalt
Mma evolved into boxing and then devolved into mma
Just to be contrarian, I wonder if the “civilizing” of boxing has led to greater brain damage from the sport. Padded gloves and the elimination of many brutal fight-ending techniques has led to more head blows.
Banging on a man’s skull with one’s bare knuckles seems like less of a thing. Or am I way off base here?
Nope, 100% spot on. Modern pro boxing does far more damage to your brain than Bare knuckle ever did. It's just people don't see the bleeding so they think it's fine.
@@EnglishMartialArts Similar to American football vs rugby. The latter causes far more superficial injuries but the armored behemoths of the NFL accrue multiple small concussions.
If rugby is an English sport because they codified the Welsh Cnapan. Boxing is Welsh cause John Graham Chambers was from Wales.
Rugby definitely replaced Cnapan, but I don't think it's fair to say that it was the original version. Similar games were played all across the British Isles throughout the early Middle ages. Good luck against Ireland!
Boxing was invented in Scotland. It was bare-knuckle. It was not a sport but a means of resolving disputes fairly.
Pretty sure people have been fist fighting since the dawn of our species, mate.
@@hailhydreigon2700 my thoughts to
@@hailhydreigon2700 in fast jeder Kultur wurde geboxt seit bestehen der Menschheit