I personally don't have a problem with machines containing plastic, but I'm not a huge fan of single use plastic packaging. When buying coffee I always re-use the ones with a zip-lock closing mechanism Getting microplastics into your food is almost unavoidable IMO Might as well not think about it
My problem with plastics is that in time it becomes brittle and these days getting new parts can be a problem. I have some "older" espressomachines and o-rings and seals is not a problem but Steam knobs ( e.g my first espressomachine a Saeco via Venezia has that problem) and other plastic parts that get really hot tend to crack in time .....
@@someguy9520 That's like saying if you live around other people that smoke cigs might as well take up smoking and not worry about it..... there is ALWAYS more you can do for your health, taking the zero care approach is beyond dumb.....
@TheSydguy30 that's really not the equivalent The equivalent would be if you were surrounded by smokers and you would move to a different part of the room. Doesn't help a lot since the smoke/tar is gonna reach you eventually Actively smoking would be like ingesting plastic parts on purpose
I think the upcoming Meticulous Home Espresso and a Flair 58 uses less plastic in the flair case and no plastic in path of heated water in the Meticulous case by using a stainless steal reservoir except for posibly the dispersion screen depending on your selected screen. I wonder how I can plumb in an Xbloom Studio using a glass reservoir and some sort of metal line. Your advice would be helpful. Thanks
As stated elsewhere, the Robot is a good candidate as well. There’s the Delrin spacers where the arms attach, the rubber ring under the base and the silicone ring on the piston - the only point of potential contact with what you’re drinking. I don’t count the the pad because I don’t use it.
A lot of people mention the Robot. I haven't tried it yet, but I did reference it on my blog: tomscoffeecorner.com/best-plastic-free-espresso-machines/
One thing that always amaze me is to know that my cheap DeLonghi (BAR32/ec155/ec220) has an stainless steel boiler and resistance, while the most expensive ones have aluminum or copper, that tends to be way more reactive with water and mineral within it.
I quite appreciate this review. It is interesting to see the insides of these machines / appliances. I am positive it will help making a more educated decision when acquiring an espresso machine. Bravo! 👏🏼
Thank you for the great video Tom! I am a very beginner espresso maker looking for a first machine. I also did not want any plastics, nickel or aluminum. It’s not easy to find a machine that’s safer than most.
For me it is very important to have as less plastic as possible in my coffee mashine. Especially the parts where the hot water is going through. I prefer stainless steel and avoid aluminium and copper as well. Therefore i have been using Bialetti stainless steel moka pots for about 8 years. However I bought ecp3321 this year, removed the plastic part from portafilter and add stainless steel basket. It is not perfect solution in terms of plastics but that is what i can afford. I was suprised that the plastic tank also gets warm due to its position near to boiler. That is why I change the water in the tank after ever coffee i make.
I have an issue with my Calphalon expresso machine, which I have used for several years. Shards and tiny bits of hard plastic are being shed into the coffee. The filter catches the bigger, sharp edged shards, but the tiny ones that look like coffee grains are coming through into the finished product. There is no mistaking the shards with pointy ends for coffee grounds. I kept some samples of the shards. I was doing a web search and that's how I found your video, which I appreciate. I will take the machine apart and take a look at what inside is made of hard, black plastic that is flaking off. • The plastic pieces are all pre filters from inside the machine. I know this because the shards come out when the filter basket and machine filters are all removed and the water is coming directly unfiltered from inside the machine. Some of the shards have branches and are long and curved--- definitely not coffee grounds.
Gaggia has a "frothing jet device" as an essential part of the pressurized PF. FROTHING JET DEVICE... sounds so fancy but it is a small plastic plug that prevents the shot from spraying all over. Mine was not with the machine when I got it so while I waited for the $5 part, I made one out of a ball point pen.
First off Tom excellent video thank you so much !! I feel in this day and age. We can’t trust our government to do the right thing and try to keep us healthy. So I appreciate this comprehensive video you’ve put together. With that said personally, I’m trying to avoid plastics and aluminum. One of your comments is correct. So many micro plastics in our water sources already. A whole house water filtration system is ridiculously expensive, though in the same respect super effective !! I’m a bit of a novice when it comes to brewing, my own coffee and espresso I basically just got into the game so to speak.. but it’s been about 18 months and I haven’t had to pay Dunkin’ Donuts or Starbucks in a year and a half.. I’ve been through about 14 different units. For me, it comes down to mess. So many of the espresso machines as they’re forcing the hot steam through the system end up like a fifth grade science experiment baking soda volcano all over the counter. So for me a system that explodes all over the counter with billions of coffee colored micro droplets is a bit of a dealbreaker. You’ve heard of some people that meal plan for the week and prep their lunches and respective dinners for the week.. well that’s basically what I do with espresso.. I have a jug that goes into my fridge that holds about a gallon and a half with a little 1980s style push button valve to disperse it.. so I basically make a gallon and a half of espresso on Sundays. Let it cool down and put it into the refrigerator and I have my iced espresso drinks for the week.. I’m still in search of the perfect unit , but that’s basically what I do.. I guess it’s become a labor of love/necessity..
this is why i always done my coffee on the stove either in a pot or glass teapot just like the old days parents still brew coffee the old way also with the cloth strainer and pot on stove its the best way hands down
You could have included the Cafelat Robot. The silicon gasket on the cylinder isn't in contact with the water or coffee. The only part on mine is the little silicon handle on the puck screen. If you are completly serious about it, you could remove the little handle or use a aftermarket steel puck screen instead. Cleaning it is a breeze. And the resulting espresso is simply great...
Ahh, I was writing about the 9Barista when you got to it! :) Anyway, plastic doesn't bother me if it's used properly, but I would recommend anyone with a Breville Dual Boiler swap out the plastic shower screen for a metal one. It's an easy upgrade if you plan to keep your machine a long time.
The Giannina (by Giannini) is all Stainless Steel, included the funnel/filter. A bit pricey, but definitely worth it: very high quality, and the clamping mechanism is much easier/safer than a standard Moka. There's one Bialetti made of Stainless Steel, but the funnel/filter is still aluminum...
I just came across a very new study about black plastics being proven unsafe for food (still considered food grade in USA though!) so I'm looking to replace the portafilter at least on my lil delonghi. I might have to give up espresso alltogether and do glass pourover or coldbrews.
This is a GREAT topic! I wonder if the big names will offer to make non-silicon tubes and use copper or metal. They can upsell the feature, and many willing to pay extra for it
Informative! I would want something with no plastic or aluminum in contact with the hot water and coffee. Even nickel-plated is a red flag. How do the Flair machines weigh in?
Hey Tom, love your videos. Very informative. Have a question. Just got the Breville Touch Impress. Noticed after making espressos, it is very difficult to get the used coffee grounds out of the basket. I watched some videos where the puck just falls right out of the basket or takes a light tap. Not with mine though. Any ideas or suggestions?
It might be packed too tight. How many grams are you dosing? But to be honest, I am not sure how to reduce it with the BTI, unless you stop the grind yourself earlier. Good luck!
Hi Tom! I just subscribed to your channel and I love it! I have a question that I would like your opinion on that is off topic, I hope you don’t mind. Will you be doing a review on the Fiorenzato Allground Sense Grinder? I have been watching a lot of videos on this grinder and I am considering purchasing one to upgrade from the grinder that is in my Breville Touch machine. I am hoping to get your input on this grinder first. Thank you so much for all the videos you put out there for us.
Thanks for your comment, and confidence! Well, I have never tried a Fiorenzato, if I'm honest. It's kind of expensive for me to just buy to review, at 800 euros. You might be surprised, but we don't get paid much for views - it's like 3 euros per 1000 views, and that's before tax. I guess the closest thing I've reviewed to that is the Libra, which is quite nice. Anyway, good luck with your grinder hunt!
Gaskets are silicone not plastic. silicone is not plastic per se. it's composition consists of inert compounds that don't leach like common plastics. Silicone is also much more heat resistant than plastics. So the argument can be made that an all metal machine comprising some silicone could be, for all intent and purposes, regarded as a plastic-free machine. And there are plenty of such machines on the market, particularly fully manual levers.
As John Buckman points out in his explanation of the Decent design ideas, an all-metal hot water path inside a machine has its own problems. Whenever you join dissimilar metals such as copper, steel, brass and solder, they expand and contract differently and eventually the joint can crack and leak. And then there's the underlying assumption here: that an espresso machine with plastic parts releases microplastics into the drink. I think that's doubtful because there's so little agitation within those pipes, unlike, say, a washing machine which bangs microplastic particles off your synthetic fabrics. This wouldn't be hard to test. Run a metric buttload of water through a machine, collect it, let it evaporate and weigh the residue. For bonus points get the microscope out and examine said residue, if there is any.
That would not really work. Chemicals in plastics can have hormonal style interactions and so be active at very small concentrations. Also they can be unstable at higher temperatures and break down. Finally they can be mildly volatile or water soluble and escape with the vapor. I would not trust John Buckman on such a subject as he seems to be learning materials science on the fly with his machines. That is not meant to be a disparaging remark. I am just saying his opinions sometimes need verifying and not trusted at face value as an expert opinion.
Well, using differing metals may also lead to galvanic currents, when metals of different conductivity are abutting one another, the induced current flow may lead to corrosion. But that mostly comes into play when there are minerals and salts in the conductive path, like saltwater.
Agree. Also it takes very little ionizing chemical to induce this effect, like impure water. I have seen boats sink on docks when galvanic action has caused a through hull fitting to dissolve. Personally, I would be concerned about lead impurities in the metals ionizing into the water.@@TomsCoffeeCorner
@@TomJones-tx7pb Definitely - galvanic corrosion is a menace in my main field of expertise, bicycles, though less so than it used to be as we're less often putting aluminium seatposts into steel frames. My main point was that all these things are a compromise. Metal parts create one set of problems, plastics possibly another, and some actual data is needed on the magnitude of those problems.
The LP in the video is a premillenium model and so, there is no plastic sleeve into the grouphead. Post Millennium models ( say that have been built since 2000) have the plastic sleeve that you mentioned
Why, it is food grade polymer, if you know anything about manufacturing and can you give some insight about why you are concerned? Nevertheless, I had the issue, contacted Whole Latte Love: they shipped me a new machine before I even shipped my defective one. I also continued to use said machine, you can purge it to the point where the specks are minimal and not noticeable unless looking, it didn't bother me. In reality, there is no concern with plastic nor the polymers being used in 99% of the machines on Earth that are produced by any large-scale manufacturer. Do you go to the cafe and just assume that everything is perfectly clean, no contaminants whatsoever? Why make an issue bigger than it is, especially one that seemingly doesn't even involve you.
@@IT10T Because cancer rates are sky high compared to the pre-industrial era. Now I'm not suggesting the plastic your food touches is the cause. But it is one of many things we encounter daily that simply didn't exist a couple hundred years ago. So, if you could eliminate that variable relatively inexpensively, why not? If you're ok with "just a little food grade polymer" in your drinks, then fine. But don't pretend to be the pragmatist in the conversation just because you've got a higher tolerance for chemicals in your food than someone else.
@@IT10T Food safe does not mean that it is edible, there are many question marks about food safe plastics and within the EU there is constant research into how they affect people and what limit values should apply at the moment, you shouldn't sit and patronize people's concerns about plastic ,since you apparently don't have any knowledge of the matter. European food safety authority, read!
I work in surgery and we have patients quite often that have microplastics (pieces of plastic) in their intestines/ stomach… Not saying it’s only from coffee, but why contribute to the problem.
YES, I make a strong effort to avoid plastic. Its not good to drink from, and BPA is only 1 toxin out of many, and then to add HEAT to plastic....Forget about it!!! That is horrible. Aluminum is OK if under 375F, I think there is off gasing above 400~F or something on some data I read. Also, water is a solvent, the more clean the water the more active it can be on materials. I like borosilicate glass and stainless steel. If I can get 316, I do, but 304 is mostly what I find. All our to go cups and bottles are stainless steel...Our straws are glass or stainless....yet I cannot verify their grade/quality. I dont use the plastic lids. I found one bottle made of ceramic, and another stainless with stainless cap..So there is a stronger push for them, as I see more being available. My coffee canister is glass and has a push vacuum with metal lid on bottom touching the beans. I recommend it..Called "Evap". Try it out, much cheaper, and I like it better than the AirEscape, or whatever the other one I have is.
Good video as always Tom. I like your shirt - is a Linea Micra review coming soon? Compare the Linea to a Dedica perhaps - they are made by the same company anyway. Something like "Do you get a 15 times better espresso if you use a 15 times more expensive machine?" Could be really interesting.
I'd love this but use the Delonghi ECP instead, It has a boiler instead of thermoblock. I make decent flat whites with mine and jokingly call it the 'Micra killer'
That would make a fun video, but I don't know if a Micra is in the cards at its €3500 price tag. But if I WAS gonna buy an expensive machine, it would be a La Marzocco. They're beautiful.
thanks for showing us. I don't assume that plastic is BPA free. If it is non-toxic, why wouldn't Delonghi for example, list these things? It's so frustrating. There are Prop 65 warnings on all the machines practically - however, no one in the company KNOWS why - I guess - Aluminum. I was told probably yes. What does the aluminum do? Does it get hot? (can put aluminum gas into the air.) I don't understand and why no one in delonghi's technical department or otherwise ever knows why Prop 65 - and they send you to the government website to understand Prop 65 but not how it relates. I did see in Florida recently that the boxes of products in Target all had a listing of chemicals on the side that were used in the making of the product. I WISH I could find out once and for all. Lead? Really non-toxic plastic? I love this machine and would love to get it. But ...... what am I purchasing? SO frustrating.
ps. coffee is very acidic and can leach material from plastic, aluminum, steel not a problem - etc. Silicone is usually not a problem either. here's to a future of truly safe material for our children.
Tom, clear hard plastic contains more BPA than the more cloudy white plastic, at least that's my understanding, so although the clear plastic is more aesthetically pleasing, it may not be the healthiest.
Well Delonghi states on their website that their machines use materials without BPA. To be fair, the Dedica has the clear tank, while the ECP has also more of a softer more opaque plastic...
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Dedica probably uses BPS ,bisphenol S (BPS) and bisphenol F (BPF) compounds that share close structural similarities with BPA. It's a game with letters, better or worse who knows!
I have been looking for an espresso machine with no plastic or aluminum. I learned that Profitec Go is plastic and aluminum free. Can someone confirm ?
I think as more evidence is being emerged (which certainly is the case now) there will have to be more manufacturers having to do this and more competition in the space as the health effects of microplastics are detrimental to health so people will obviously want to look for a solution to this problem. I know I am. Also there are a several ones not reviewed that are in fact plastic free (or at least don't come in contact with the water or coffee during any stage, storage or brewing part)
I avoid plastic if I can. It's sad they use plastic in so many things. Should be illegal, aluminium too. But what are the choices? Unfortunatly not much unless you have a lot of money and can buy one of those extremely expensive lever machines - which by the way seems annoying, not as convient as automatic espresso-machines. Hopefully it's not so bad and they have thought about food grade and such. I would asume they've done studies on leaching etc. But yeah.. I don't trust em. They allow a lot of bad stuff to be legal, for example PVC. PVC piping, cables etc.
Hi Tom. I didn't know that saying was biblical. For some reason I thought it was a French saying, like “plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose“, but the google gave me the Ecclesiastes source. @@TomsCoffeeCorner
What you don't understand sir, are a few things here: 1. the reservoir doesn't matter that much - since the water is NOT hot there. Plastic sheds the most when it encounters HOT liquids, 2. silicone is NOT plastic. Silicone is OK - you can heat silicone or cool it - it is nowhere close to being the same as plastic. YOu need to differentiate between silicone and plastic. I would be ok with silicone tubing - that is WAY better than plastic tubing and of course more expensive but reasonable to use. 3. BPA-free means nothing. Why? Because they replace the lack of BPA with other (not yet recognized or regulated) dangerous toxins. So that is a non-starter. So... we would appreciate it if you could re-evaluate your machines with the above in mind. Would be very valuable information to have. thx. I should also add: the only time silicone may be a problem is if someone is allergic to it...
Hi there! If I finish my videos early, I post them first to members, then make them public. You don't have to pay to see them, I think YT is just offering the perk. Cheers!
Please stay away from your water being in contact with aluminum. Plastic housing is immaterial. Rubber gaskets and O rings are not an issue. Boiling aluminum and plastic is a very bad idea.
You can filter it out. Right now my town is working on the replacing the old asbestos-concrete water pipes. I have to worry about micro-asbestos in my water.
@@TomJones-tx7pb Wow. During the winter we have soft local springwater, but in summer the water table runs dry and we get water from the Rhein, duly processed but calcium-rich all the same. I use supermarket bottled water with 3mg Ca/L.
Yes you raise the good point that water utilities shop their water supplies. Just because it is good today says nothing about tomorrow. One year I got an oopsy letter from my utility apologizing for the water having very high levels of lead for the last year.@@johne7100
This isnt nescessarily about climate stuff, for me avoiding plastic is mostly about avoiding things like BPA for their hormonal impact and lower fertility
Every plunger will need some kind of plastic/silicon/rubber as a gasket material. But the LP has some of the least amount of plastic compared to other espresso machines, to my knowledge.
Once you start getting health problems and suffer from them then maybe you will start worrying about it also, of course, we live in a world that we live in, if it's too difficult or too expensive I guess just live your life as stress causes more problems than plastic or aluminum, but if you can choose an option without harmful additions then why not...
Thanks for watching, comments welcome! How important is it to you, to avoid plastic?
I personally don't have a problem with machines containing plastic, but I'm not a huge fan of single use plastic packaging. When buying coffee I always re-use the ones with a zip-lock closing mechanism
Getting microplastics into your food is almost unavoidable IMO
Might as well not think about it
My problem with plastics is that in time it becomes brittle and these days getting new parts can be a problem. I have some "older" espressomachines and o-rings and seals is not a problem but Steam knobs ( e.g my first espressomachine a Saeco via Venezia has that problem) and other plastic parts that get really hot tend to crack in time .....
@@someguy9520 That's like saying if you live around other people that smoke cigs might as well take up smoking and not worry about it..... there is ALWAYS more you can do for your health, taking the zero care approach is beyond dumb.....
@TheSydguy30 that's really not the equivalent
The equivalent would be if you were surrounded by smokers and you would move to a different part of the room. Doesn't help a lot since the smoke/tar is gonna reach you eventually
Actively smoking would be like ingesting plastic parts on purpose
I think the upcoming Meticulous Home Espresso and a Flair 58 uses less plastic in the flair case and no plastic in path of heated water in the Meticulous case by using a stainless steal reservoir except for posibly the dispersion screen depending on your selected screen.
I wonder how I can plumb in an Xbloom Studio using a glass reservoir and some sort of metal line. Your advice would be helpful. Thanks
Thanks Gaggia is exactly what I am looking for at the price point, really helpful. Cant stand the idea of hot water going through any plastic
As stated elsewhere, the Robot is a good candidate as well. There’s the Delrin spacers where the arms attach, the rubber ring under the base and the silicone ring on the piston - the only point of potential contact with what you’re drinking. I don’t count the the pad because I don’t use it.
A lot of people mention the Robot. I haven't tried it yet, but I did reference it on my blog: tomscoffeecorner.com/best-plastic-free-espresso-machines/
One thing that always amaze me is to know that my cheap DeLonghi (BAR32/ec155/ec220) has an stainless steel boiler and resistance, while the most expensive ones have aluminum or copper, that tends to be way more reactive with water and mineral within it.
I quite appreciate this review. It is interesting to see the insides of these machines / appliances. I am positive it will help making a more educated decision when acquiring an espresso machine. Bravo! 👏🏼
Thank you for the great video Tom! I am a very beginner espresso maker looking for a first machine. I also did not want any plastics, nickel or aluminum. It’s not easy to find a machine that’s safer than most.
For me it is very important to have as less plastic as possible in my coffee mashine. Especially the parts where the hot water is going through. I prefer stainless steel and avoid aluminium and copper as well. Therefore i have been using Bialetti stainless steel moka pots for about 8 years. However I bought ecp3321 this year, removed the plastic part from portafilter and add stainless steel basket. It is not perfect solution in terms of plastics but that is what i can afford. I was suprised that the plastic tank also gets warm due to its position near to boiler. That is why I change the water in the tank after ever coffee i make.
link to the stainless steel basket?
for all that just use a glass teapot to make your coffee avoid any metals or plastic easy work
Eli can you tell us where you got the stainless steel basket, please? Thank you!
I have an issue with my Calphalon expresso machine, which I have used for several years. Shards and tiny bits of hard plastic are being shed into the coffee. The filter catches the bigger, sharp edged shards, but the tiny ones that look like coffee grains are coming through into the finished product. There is no mistaking the shards with pointy ends for coffee grounds. I kept some samples of the shards. I was doing a web search and that's how I found your video, which I appreciate. I will take the machine apart and take a look at what inside is made of hard, black plastic that is flaking off.
• The plastic pieces are all pre filters from inside the machine. I know this because the shards come out when the filter basket and machine filters are all removed and the water is coming directly unfiltered from inside the machine. Some of the shards have branches and are long and curved--- definitely not coffee grounds.
I love all your videos and your showcasing the products. Very good channel
Thank you so much!
Gaggia has a "frothing jet device" as an essential part of the pressurized PF. FROTHING JET DEVICE... sounds so fancy but it is a small plastic plug that prevents the shot from spraying all over. Mine was not with the machine when I got it so while I waited for the $5 part, I made one out of a ball point pen.
Very interesting and important topic, I would say Flair-58 is the best when it comes to avoiding using plastic and aluminum.
First off Tom excellent video thank you so much !!
I feel in this day and age. We can’t trust our government to do the right thing and try to keep us healthy. So I appreciate this comprehensive video you’ve put together. With that said personally, I’m trying to avoid plastics and aluminum. One of your comments is correct. So many micro plastics in our water sources already. A whole house water filtration system is ridiculously expensive, though in the same respect super effective !! I’m a bit of a novice when it comes to brewing, my own coffee and espresso I basically just got into the game so to speak.. but it’s been about 18 months and I haven’t had to pay Dunkin’ Donuts or Starbucks in a year and a half.. I’ve been through about 14 different units. For me, it comes down to mess. So many of the espresso machines as they’re forcing the hot steam through the system end up like a fifth grade science experiment baking soda volcano all over the counter. So for me a system that explodes all over the counter with billions of coffee colored micro droplets is a bit of a dealbreaker. You’ve heard of some people that meal plan for the week and prep their lunches and respective dinners for the week.. well that’s basically what I do with espresso.. I have a jug that goes into my fridge that holds about a gallon and a half with a little 1980s style push button valve to disperse it.. so I basically make a gallon and a half of espresso on Sundays. Let it cool down and put it into the refrigerator and I have my iced espresso drinks for the week..
I’m still in search of the perfect unit , but that’s basically what I do.. I guess it’s become a labor of love/necessity..
this is why i always done my coffee on the stove either in a pot or glass teapot just like the old days parents still brew coffee the old way also with the cloth strainer and pot on stove its the best way hands down
You could have included the Cafelat Robot. The silicon gasket on the cylinder isn't in contact with the water or coffee. The only part on mine is the little silicon handle on the puck screen. If you are completly serious about it, you could remove the little handle or use a aftermarket steel puck screen instead. Cleaning it is a breeze. And the resulting espresso is simply great...
I haven't tried one yet, but I will keep it in mind for the future. Thanks for your comment! Tom
Ahh, I was writing about the 9Barista when you got to it! :)
Anyway, plastic doesn't bother me if it's used properly, but I would recommend anyone with a Breville Dual Boiler swap out the plastic shower screen for a metal one. It's an easy upgrade if you plan to keep your machine a long time.
Is there a proper use of plastic with pressurized boiling water where there will be in microplastics in the final drink?
Great video! Would be interested in a video with lower plastic milk frother options!
The Giannina (by Giannini) is all Stainless Steel, included the funnel/filter.
A bit pricey, but definitely worth it: very high quality, and the clamping mechanism is much easier/safer than a standard Moka.
There's one Bialetti made of Stainless Steel, but the funnel/filter is still aluminum...
I just came across a very new study about black plastics being proven unsafe for food (still considered food grade in USA though!) so I'm looking to replace the portafilter at least on my lil delonghi. I might have to give up espresso alltogether and do glass pourover or coldbrews.
Very helpful video. Thank you!
This is a GREAT topic! I wonder if the big names will offer to make non-silicon tubes and use copper or metal. They can upsell the feature, and many willing to pay extra for it
Informative! I would want something with no plastic or aluminum in contact with the hot water and coffee. Even nickel-plated is a red flag. How do the Flair machines weigh in?
Ideally, the hot water path will touch the least amount of plastic in my espresso machine. My Flair 58 does this pretty well :)
Which one you got? 😮
How about the Illy ones? They say the extraction process takes place in the capsule. There are reusable metal cups for Illy.
Hey Tom, love your videos. Very informative. Have a question. Just got the Breville Touch Impress. Noticed after making espressos, it is very difficult to get the used coffee grounds out of the basket. I watched some videos where the puck just falls right out of the basket or takes a light tap. Not with mine though. Any ideas or suggestions?
It might be packed too tight. How many grams are you dosing? But to be honest, I am not sure how to reduce it with the BTI, unless you stop the grind yourself earlier. Good luck!
Love my Gaggia - no plastic to be scared of, but I don’t like the fact it has an aluminium boiler.
Thanks Tom. I think Flair Pro 2 is pretty much plastic free except silicone O ring. I am worried about aluminum boilers in majority espresso machines.
What is the supposed problem with aluminum? People drink out of cans made of the stuff all the time.
@@SVGC2right and those people are the healthiest people for sure 😂. But no for real it’s super bad for your brain. Alzheimer’s speed run.
Hi Tom! I just subscribed to your channel and I love it! I have a question that I would like your opinion on that is off topic, I hope you don’t mind. Will you be doing a review on the Fiorenzato Allground Sense Grinder? I have been watching a lot of videos on this grinder and I am considering purchasing one to upgrade from the grinder that is in my Breville Touch machine. I am hoping to get your input on this grinder first. Thank you so much for all the videos you put out there for us.
Thanks for your comment, and confidence! Well, I have never tried a Fiorenzato, if I'm honest. It's kind of expensive for me to just buy to review, at 800 euros.
You might be surprised, but we don't get paid much for views - it's like 3 euros per 1000 views, and that's before tax.
I guess the closest thing I've reviewed to that is the Libra, which is quite nice. Anyway, good luck with your grinder hunt!
It's crazy how difficult it is to find a coffee maker that don't involve plastics contacting hot water.
Great video! What about the Breville Bambino Plus?
Ohhh, lots of plastic, kind of like the Dedica.
Gaskets are silicone not plastic. silicone is not plastic per se. it's composition consists of inert compounds that don't leach like common plastics. Silicone is also much more heat resistant than plastics. So the argument can be made that an all metal machine comprising some silicone could be, for all intent and purposes, regarded as a plastic-free machine. And there are plenty of such machines on the market, particularly fully manual levers.
Would u, for home cappuccino, rather suggest a Delonghi Dedica or Delonghi ECP? I just cant decide
I'd say they're about a horse a piece. They can both make good milk foam. Dedica is a little easier all around, but ECP makes better espresso. Cheers!
would it work to swap out a plastic tank for a steel one?
As John Buckman points out in his explanation of the Decent design ideas, an all-metal hot water path inside a machine has its own problems. Whenever you join dissimilar metals such as copper, steel, brass and solder, they expand and contract differently and eventually the joint can crack and leak.
And then there's the underlying assumption here: that an espresso machine with plastic parts releases microplastics into the drink. I think that's doubtful because there's so little agitation within those pipes, unlike, say, a washing machine which bangs microplastic particles off your synthetic fabrics.
This wouldn't be hard to test. Run a metric buttload of water through a machine, collect it, let it evaporate and weigh the residue. For bonus points get the microscope out and examine said residue, if there is any.
That would not really work. Chemicals in plastics can have hormonal style interactions and so be active at very small concentrations. Also they can be unstable at higher temperatures and break down. Finally they can be mildly volatile or water soluble and escape with the vapor. I would not trust John Buckman on such a subject as he seems to be learning materials science on the fly with his machines. That is not meant to be a disparaging remark. I am just saying his opinions sometimes need verifying and not trusted at face value as an expert opinion.
Well, using differing metals may also lead to galvanic currents, when metals of different conductivity are abutting one another, the induced current flow may lead to corrosion. But that mostly comes into play when there are minerals and salts in the conductive path, like saltwater.
Agree. Also it takes very little ionizing chemical to induce this effect, like impure water. I have seen boats sink on docks when galvanic action has caused a through hull fitting to dissolve. Personally, I would be concerned about lead impurities in the metals ionizing into the water.@@TomsCoffeeCorner
@@TomJones-tx7pb All good points. Right, then - who's got a mass spectrometer we can use? :)
@@TomJones-tx7pb Definitely - galvanic corrosion is a menace in my main field of expertise, bicycles, though less so than it used to be as we're less often putting aluminium seatposts into steel frames.
My main point was that all these things are a compromise. Metal parts create one set of problems, plastics possibly another, and some actual data is needed on the magnitude of those problems.
Yes it was helpful. Do you know anything about cup machines and plastics?
Your La Pavoni has a plastic sleeve that the water is pushed out by piston before reaching shower screen, unless you upgraded to stainless or brass
The LP in the video is a premillenium model and so, there is no plastic sleeve into the grouphead. Post Millennium models ( say that have been built since 2000) have the plastic sleeve that you mentioned
I do not know why they don't at least make the water reservoirs glass, ceramic or stainless steel.
More concerned about the GCP boiler coating being in my flat white!
Why, it is food grade polymer, if you know anything about manufacturing and can you give some insight about why you are concerned? Nevertheless, I had the issue, contacted Whole Latte Love: they shipped me a new machine before I even shipped my defective one. I also continued to use said machine, you can purge it to the point where the specks are minimal and not noticeable unless looking, it didn't bother me. In reality, there is no concern with plastic nor the polymers being used in 99% of the machines on Earth that are produced by any large-scale manufacturer. Do you go to the cafe and just assume that everything is perfectly clean, no contaminants whatsoever? Why make an issue bigger than it is, especially one that seemingly doesn't even involve you.
@@IT10T Because cancer rates are sky high compared to the pre-industrial era. Now I'm not suggesting the plastic your food touches is the cause. But it is one of many things we encounter daily that simply didn't exist a couple hundred years ago. So, if you could eliminate that variable relatively inexpensively, why not? If you're ok with "just a little food grade polymer" in your drinks, then fine. But don't pretend to be the pragmatist in the conversation just because you've got a higher tolerance for chemicals in your food than someone else.
@@IT10T Food safe does not mean that it is edible, there are many question marks about food safe plastics and within the EU there is constant research into how they affect people and what limit values should apply at the moment, you shouldn't sit and patronize people's concerns about plastic ,since you apparently don't have any knowledge of the matter.
European food safety authority, read!
I work in surgery and we have patients quite often that have microplastics (pieces of plastic) in their intestines/ stomach… Not saying it’s only from coffee, but why contribute to the problem.
Tom, can you try to put the steam wand from the Artista in the Gaggia?
Howdy! What's the Arista?
YES, I make a strong effort to avoid plastic. Its not good to drink from, and BPA is only 1 toxin out of many, and then to add HEAT to plastic....Forget about it!!! That is horrible. Aluminum is OK if under 375F, I think there is off gasing above 400~F or something on some data I read. Also, water is a solvent, the more clean the water the more active it can be on materials.
I like borosilicate glass and stainless steel. If I can get 316, I do, but 304 is mostly what I find. All our to go cups and bottles are stainless steel...Our straws are glass or stainless....yet I cannot verify their grade/quality. I dont use the plastic lids. I found one bottle made of ceramic, and another stainless with stainless cap..So there is a stronger push for them, as I see more being available. My coffee canister is glass and has a push vacuum with metal lid on bottom touching the beans. I recommend it..Called "Evap". Try it out, much cheaper, and I like it better than the AirEscape, or whatever the other one I have is.
What about the ratio coffee maker
I'm equally concerned about aluminum...
If plastic free is critical to someone then how about a Flair 58 or a Cafelat Robot (no milk steaming obviously though)
Good video as always Tom. I like your shirt - is a Linea Micra review coming soon? Compare the Linea to a Dedica perhaps - they are made by the same company anyway. Something like "Do you get a 15 times better espresso if you use a 15 times more expensive machine?" Could be really interesting.
I'd love this but use the Delonghi ECP instead, It has a boiler instead of thermoblock. I make decent flat whites with mine and jokingly call it the 'Micra killer'
That would make a fun video, but I don't know if a Micra is in the cards at its €3500 price tag.
But if I WAS gonna buy an expensive machine, it would be a La Marzocco. They're beautiful.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner What La Marzocco would you buy? (if you were in the market for the "best" and most expensive? The big, big one at 15K?
thanks for showing us. I don't assume that plastic is BPA free. If it is non-toxic, why wouldn't Delonghi for example, list these things? It's so frustrating. There are Prop 65 warnings on all the machines practically - however, no one in the company KNOWS why - I guess - Aluminum. I was told probably yes. What does the aluminum do? Does it get hot? (can put aluminum gas into the air.) I don't understand and why no one in delonghi's technical department or otherwise ever knows why Prop 65 - and they send you to the government website to understand Prop 65 but not how it relates. I did see in Florida recently that the boxes of products in Target all had a listing of chemicals on the side that were used in the making of the product. I WISH I could find out once and for all. Lead? Really non-toxic plastic? I love this machine and would love to get it. But ...... what am I purchasing? SO frustrating.
ps. coffee is very acidic and can leach material from plastic, aluminum, steel not a problem - etc. Silicone is usually not a problem either. here's to a future of truly safe material for our children.
any budget options... diy would also work
Did any new plastic/aluminium/chrome free espresso machine catch your eye?
Just the La Pavoni, Robot, and Flair. But those are old.
Do you know of any plastic free drip coffee makers, or at least a coffee maker that once the water is hot it won't touch much plastic?
Hario makes a glass dripper, but you gotta do the pouring...
Do a pour over with glass
Tom, clear hard plastic contains more BPA than the more cloudy white plastic, at least that's my understanding, so although the clear plastic is more aesthetically pleasing, it may not be the healthiest.
Well Delonghi states on their website that their machines use materials without BPA. To be fair, the Dedica has the clear tank, while the ECP has also more of a softer more opaque plastic...
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Dedica probably uses BPS ,bisphenol S (BPS) and bisphenol F (BPF) compounds that share close structural similarities with BPA.
It's a game with letters, better or worse who knows!
My goal is to not use water that has been sitting in the reservoir for long
We used to call the "mocha pot" a cafetera. Some are cheap aluminum but others are stainless steel. I will not use aluminum.
I have been looking for an espresso machine with no plastic or aluminum. I learned that Profitec Go is plastic and aluminum free. Can someone confirm ?
I've never tried one. Is the water tank also plastic free?
The water tank is plastic. But inside the machine everything seems to be plastic free unless it’s not in touch with hot water
What about the french press?
True, that’s a good example.
I think as more evidence is being emerged (which certainly is the case now) there will have to be more manufacturers having to do this and more competition in the space as the health effects of microplastics are detrimental to health so people will obviously want to look for a solution to this problem. I know I am.
Also there are a several ones not reviewed that are in fact plastic free (or at least don't come in contact with the water or coffee during any stage, storage or brewing part)
Could you fill us in on the plastic free machines please!
Yes I’d like to know too!
Anything any machine you buy,car,plans have plastic.. thank you Tom...
I was the 47th Like on this video! :)
Tom, if you get up to Braunschweig, let me know, we'll grab a coffee.
Sounds like a plan!
I avoid plastic if I can. It's sad they use plastic in so many things. Should be illegal, aluminium too. But what are the choices? Unfortunatly not much unless you have a lot of money and can buy one of those extremely expensive lever machines - which by the way seems annoying, not as convient as automatic espresso-machines. Hopefully it's not so bad and they have thought about food grade and such. I would asume they've done studies on leaching etc. But yeah.. I don't trust em. They allow a lot of bad stuff to be legal, for example PVC. PVC piping, cables etc.
All glass Cory (maybe others) siphon pots. From the 1930s. "There is nothing new under the sun."
Ecclesiastes, nice. 👍🏻
Hi Tom. I didn't know that saying was biblical. For some reason I thought it was a French saying, like “plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose“, but the google gave me the Ecclesiastes source. @@TomsCoffeeCorner
I try to avoid plastic AND aluminium like the plague!
What you don't understand sir, are a few things here: 1. the reservoir doesn't matter that much - since the water is NOT hot there. Plastic sheds the most when it encounters HOT liquids, 2. silicone is NOT plastic. Silicone is OK - you can heat silicone or cool it - it is nowhere close to being the same as plastic. YOu need to differentiate between silicone and plastic. I would be ok with silicone tubing - that is WAY better than plastic tubing and of course more expensive but reasonable to use. 3. BPA-free means nothing. Why? Because they replace the lack of BPA with other (not yet recognized or regulated) dangerous toxins. So that is a non-starter. So... we would appreciate it if you could re-evaluate your machines with the above in mind. Would be very valuable information to have. thx. I should also add: the only time silicone may be a problem is if someone is allergic to it...
Plastic internal hoses and water containers always bug me.
So much plastic, and what about the pfas?
I just want the one that hot liquid doesn’t touch the plastic
Oh I couldn't watch your video the other day unless I paid money.
Hi there! If I finish my videos early, I post them first to members, then make them public. You don't have to pay to see them, I think YT is just offering the perk. Cheers!
@TomsCoffeeCorner OK thanks I've just never had that happen before.
Piston rings in engines are metal on metal.
My grandmother just used a "sock" and poured hot water into the sock.
Please stay away from your water being in contact with aluminum.
Plastic housing is immaterial. Rubber gaskets and O rings are not an issue.
Boiling aluminum and plastic is a very bad idea.
copper is exposure worse than plastic 😅
Silicone and plastic are not the same at all.
Cafelat Robot.
Silicone is not plastic, though.
Cafelat robot 😅
The expensive one
??
Silicon isn't plastic.
It's not, but many silicone polymers are, and that's clearly what we're talking about here.
It's not exactly plastic, no. But it's still a synthetic polymer. Idk, I figure it's still something to be mentioned. Cheers!
People who want their coffee without microplastics had better stop making it with water.
You can filter it out. Right now my town is working on the replacing the old asbestos-concrete water pipes. I have to worry about micro-asbestos in my water.
@@TomJones-tx7pb Wow. During the winter we have soft local springwater, but in summer the water table runs dry and we get water from the Rhein, duly processed but calcium-rich all the same. I use supermarket bottled water with 3mg Ca/L.
Yes you raise the good point that water utilities shop their water supplies. Just because it is good today says nothing about tomorrow. One year I got an oopsy letter from my utility apologizing for the water having very high levels of lead for the last year.@@johne7100
Isnt glas bottled water Micro Plastic free?
@@sam-j3z1yyes
FIRST
Amlumunum
Lol, I prefer the aluminum spelling to the aluminium.
Am I worried about plastic in my coffee machine?.......Errrrr not really, sounds beyond first world problems to me
This isnt nescessarily about climate stuff, for me avoiding plastic is mostly about avoiding things like BPA for their hormonal impact and lower fertility
It's a question that regularly comes up, so I think enough people are thinking about it....
That is only because of narrative@@TomsCoffeeCorner
Doesn’t the La Pavoni have in the group head a plastic sleeve and plunger?
Every plunger will need some kind of plastic/silicon/rubber as a gasket material. But the LP has some of the least amount of plastic compared to other espresso machines, to my knowledge.
Its funny to hear about the stupid things people worry about.
Is leaching from plastic “stupid” to worry about? What’s the reason for calling it stupid?
Uninformed, uneducated consumers enjoy calling the informed and educated consumers “stupid”.
Once you start getting health problems and suffer from them then maybe you will start worrying about it also, of course, we live in a world that we live in, if it's too difficult or too expensive I guess just live your life as stress causes more problems than plastic or aluminum, but if you can choose an option without harmful additions then why not...