In my 40+ years i experience the same. Growing up having bikes with skinny flexy forks and twin pogo sticks on the rear, any modern suspension feels "ok". I learned as a teenager how to strip and service my suspension as i couldn't afford to take it to a specialist. Thankfully back then there were knowledgeable people willing to share information without signing up to a patreon or pay a consultantancy fee which seems to be the norm now. The ktm 890 R suspension is heads above the other adv bikes but far from ideal. I have converted mine to have externally adjustable comp and rebound in both forks, dlc coated legs and slightly more travel. The shock is harsh as standard, having poor shim stacks of very thick shims. A change to the the WP factory piston, new shim stacks, three way compression adjuster and a stiffer spring has worked wonders. It tracks straight, doesn't kick anymore and the range of adjustment is far superior. Ridden back to back I'd go as far to say it works better than the stock Pro suspension on the rally version but at considerably less expense. 240mm is plenty for the majority of people. I use it on mx track and it copes brilliantly. ❤ However, if i was to race rally or ride extremely high speed i would op for the long travel version for extra safety. 90% of adv riders would not be able to tell the difference. I get people ask me which place i recommend for suspension tuning. My first reply is "have you tried all clicker positions, oil levels and correct spring rates ?" The answer is nearly always NO. I have adjusted a friends settings after servicing the fork and shock for him. He asked what mods I'd done as it was "unreal" 😂 There was an evil opportunity there to tell him I'd revalved and done some other mods, and i know of some unscrupulous dealers that do exactly that, because the majority of owners will have not touched a clicker or preload setting since getting the bike and think its a miracle. They tell them its been revealved, put a fancy sticker on and charge a fortune for an service and tweak the adjusters.
I was riding my KTM200EXC with a group. One of the guys was an enduro rider. When we stopped for lunch he said he could see my suspension was terrible. He rode my bike for a couple of minutes, came back and adjusted some things, rode it again, adjusted some more, rode it again, came back and gave it to me. "It's not perfect but that's way better" I couldn't tell any difference.
Im mostly a Jeep guy. And the arguments I get into because most people have no idea what a spring versus a shock actually do on a suspension. On road, spring rate is far less important. But off road, spring rate is king. I don't care if you have $5,ooo custom shocks built, have the wrong spring rate for your vehicle's weight and intent, and that is $5ooo wasted. Thanks for trying to get people to understand there is more than just the brand name of a suspension that makes it either work or falter.
This video is so good and spot on that i would just shake your hand Pavlin. This is a LIGHTHOUSE in the dark of motorcycle marketing which leads us to... I dont know. ADV Style wannabe with loads of fake motorcycles. Oversized, and overweight. But what i can see from my perspective, people are mostly interested in gadgets.Conectivity, bluetooth, cruise controls, tire pressure sensors and LED lights and so on. Who cares for rest. Once again, video is so good il watch it twice!
Well-said Pavlin! Unfortunately. it's more exciting to sell bike with a larger engine and a shitload of electronics (because bike has more power than what most riders can safely handle) rather than sell a bike with good suspension. Power excites, good suspension doesn't. Good suspension is like a good politician/leader - you barely notice the good work it's consistently doing, it provides solid foundations for everything else to work well, and it should be chosen to align with your mission. Sadly these qualities are often overlooked by voters/consumers and politicians/markters exploit this. I upgraded the forks and shock on my CRF300L to Rally Raid Level 1. It has about 40mm less travel than OEM but with the right spring rates, the bike actually gained some ground clearance and it's better to ride everywhere. On road, because the geometry is now correct, it corners like a supermotard and handles in the rain much better. And offroad, it handles jumps, landings and harsh hits very well due to the progressive damping and larger oil capacity in the shock. Was it an expensive upgrade? Yes. Would I do it over again? Yes for sure.
Everything you explain seems very sensible to me, as well as interesting and instructive. Even the big BMW GS have mediocre suspensions, despite their electronic adjustments. The problem of cost containment affects all manufacturers. On the other hand, it is not reasonable to think that with the same spring the suspension can respond optimally to very different requirements (for example driving with or without a passenger, on- and off-road).
You are so right! I would add that having the proper spring rate also improves the ride because the damping of the shock is designed to be progressive, that is, the further that you are in the stroke, the harsher the damping becomes. So not only are you left with only 100 mm of travel in the case of your T7, the damping is in the harshest part of the stroke. This is why it is important to be “up in the stroke” during normal riding conditions.
You are maybe confused, progressive (and digressive) damping rates refers to how the damping reacts to different speeds. Position-controlled damping is normally only found on PDS shocks as there is no linkage to change the shock displacement (and thus speed) for any given wheel movement. Top-level riders routinely change the linkage in combination with valving changes as they work together and can be running a rising rate or a falling rate depending on the track. Most hobby riders who buy a dirt bike and don't ride it hard enough complain the suspension is too harsh on small small bumps and re-valve to progressive damping, someone riding tracks with big jumps and g-outs wants digressive damping and the usual compromise is linear damping.
@@fingerscrossed2317 Sure, the low-speed is often controlled by a bleed hole which by-passes the oil around the shim stack (there are many other ways to do this) and at higher speeds the shims start to blow open allowing the wheel to move up faster, the other way round you can use a shim to close a hole to get the reverse effect. It's complicated in a shock! To get a position controlled system needs either bleed holes in a moving damper rod or more usually like in the WP PDS system an extra piston and valve assembly.
@@jimtitt3571oke, interesting, thanks for explanation. But Tenere 700 doesn't have any of that.,. because hard bumps are giving through. I thought this has something to do with progressive suspension that was making the difference in this. Which suspension has this for the Tenere 700 ?, because this should be a nice upgrade.
Palin, the Aprilla was Defective! The Shims were bent & I just watched your aprilla update. Good job, you knew last year there were problems from the factory. Experience!! Good man, God bless you & your family. Christopher nyc
Agree on all points. I did a suspension upgrade on my bike, with an another shock absorber and cartridge upgrade. From my Mountainbike background I know which great effect a good suspension can cause. So I did it, and was not disappointed. On the one hand stiff and controllable on good tarmac, on the other hand enough to absorb and don’t loose the contact to the surface on really bad tarmac on “high” speed or bumps on gravel road. Yes it is a lot of money for me, but it is also a big step up for my safety because of the control. Ride safe.
"Soft springs, hard ride" I also experienced on my FZ6 2005, but after changed to Hyperpro progressive springs, became "hard spring soft ride", and more stable on braking and cornering. Normal forks with no additional settings option. Worthfull investment definitely. Good luck on your future trips and stay safe.
You got some good points and are definitely correct. But this will mostly (if not only) affect people who want to go on offroad adventures or on a racetrack on regular occassion. The modern bikes have cheap supsension so they can save cost and sell the bikes on a better rate (or make them affordable like Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki). Of course when you customize your bike with everything that is suited exactly for you, it will perform better after you change your suspension for example. But when you make a custom bike, re-selling it is annoying. For exapmle, you spending over 1500-2000€ in the suspension. You will never get the money back that you invest in customizing it. Always keep this in mind. Of course this holds true even for Topcases and side cases or any other things you add to the bike. Regarding your point on the stock suspension. They are not good, this is true. They work fine on a normal road environment in which most of us will ride in. I have a NT 1100 DCT from Honda. The only thing adjustable is the preload for the back. Not the front. The spring is itself are also not the best for my weight (112kg) and my riding style. For my kind of use for normal european roads, they are working fine. If I would "ride hard" or put the bike through abnormal abuse like hard braking, accelerating, drifting, jumping... then yes, It would feel like riding on pudding or that you are about to break the bike. Otherwise of course a good video from you. But I would advise anyone to really think what you want and where you actually ride in. Sometimes we overestimate the type of riding we are doing. I did in the past, customized the hell out of the bike. Best suspension etc. only for me selling it after 2 years as I wanted something new. That is why I am more hesitant on putting too much money into it. Ride safe.
Oh my. Yes i have learned a LOT about suspension. I ride my T7 on single track and the biggest upgrade was my suspension. The funny thing is, I have learned enough that the factory suspension is by far good enough when built to the riding style. For most of us the expensive name brand suspension is massive excess. For my 1290SA-R, the factory suspension is just fine for how i ride it. I have had several dirt bikes and that’s where I learned about how important suspension setup is.
Yes, it is a very important topic. Many do "decorate" their bikes with heavy, passive "protection" of all kind, and neglect the most important ACTIVE safety items - the suspension + tires 🤷♂🤷♂
I'm 51 years old, and since I was in my early twenties, I have been continuously shocked that the dealers/manufactures don't offer as part of the standard buying experience, a bike FITTING AT TIME OF PURCHASE. With all the babble in the advertising about technology, technology, technology, technology, they still happily sell bikes, pre-set-up for a rider of 170 lbs to a guy weighing 300 lbs , and with a straight face. With all the competition of yesterday, today and tomorrow, can one of these companies figure out how to get the bike set up from the dealer for a riders weight? Then the rider gets the "performance" he paid for…🤔👌
Absolutely right! It's amazing really to see how many riders are riding bikes with suspension completely out of tune for their weight, sticking to stock settings and the dealerships are keeping quiet on the topic.
Very true Pavlin. 95% of my research trying to understand things shows me websites & videos just saying the top of the line hardware is simply BEST... which is also the most expensive 😁. Really hard to bypass the marketing on the internet.
Put in the Öhlins Cartridge Kit FSK 114 in my Tenere with 6.5 springs for my weight and it's a superb upgrade! Maybe I will buy the rear shock from Öhlins too.
Great advice.. I never change anything until I figure out what it needs for my own use..Alot of people change things because of a recommendation from someone else. not considering weight riding conditions and ability.
2:07 absolutely, after changing the spring the geometry of the bike becomes properly straight light which results in: the rear wheel is constant in contact with ground. I am 86KG without the gear and probably 95KG with the gear, so yes, changing the spring and setting it to the propper 66mm SAG (or 1/3 of the travel capacity) changed a lot in my case. I agree with you, a lot of people buy expensive bikes, very expensive mods (without even needing them) and never actually go farther than a local Starbuck
I weigh 100kg and I have a Honda transalp, I did exactly what you mentioned and put a stiffer spring on the shock and stiffer springs and valves in the forks. I had the work done by a suspension specialist, because i am not confident enough to do the valveing, and it only cost roughly €1000. It is a big improvement off road, however, even on tarmac, I think the bike rides better.
Great info and spot on.... I have a 2024 tenere 700 and I weigh 225+ lbs...I changed the fork & shock springs and wow what a nice improvement...and for only a couple hundred USA bucks..75nm front forks and 95nm rear shock...
You're so right Pavlin. I've seen £15k bikes that don't have basic sag setup but with £1000 worth of exhaust and luggage. Crazy. Setting up a bike for your weight and spending time and some money upgrading suspension should be the first thing people do when they buy a bike.
My motorcycle 2010 version has basic suspension. I'm heavy and only changed the preload on the rear shock and next up fork oil. Handles most things and I prefer slightly softer suspension. Yep, many people get sucked in to too many suspension upgrades. Thanks Palvin.
I completely agree with you my friend. the right suspension for you is more important than every other topic of the motorcycle subject. thank you for the videos. keep going you're doing a great job. Greetings from Greece
proper suspension is something you don't know about until you try it. And a lot of people try a more expensive motorcycle and realize it's better but they don't think that maybe with a little investment in the suspension, their bike could feel the same. And the dealer of course won't tell them because their job is to sell more bikes. Also as you said, the suspension settings don't do much if the spring is too soft for the riders weight. I am about 85 kg with gear so on my v strom 1050, even a quarter of a turn on the rear compression/rebound screw makes a difference :)
Yes ! Pavlin you are absolutely correct in what you say @ 16:20, because all the tech gurus ( especially doctors and lawyers ) who have invested in super expensive high-tech motorcycles after hours and hours of private meetings in their clubs over hundreds of bottles of beer but have actually never ridden more than the next village for lunch 😆
Rule #47: before complaining about and fiddling with the suspension, check your tire pressure. ;-) Thanks for this video, Pavlin, your views and insights are invaluable!
The thing about the thing, most people that attacked you for stating your opinion on Tuareg's suspension most likely didnt try the better ones so they dont know the feeling. I myself am like that but im aware that im a beginner i can't POSSIBLY know what it feels like to ride anything else than my MT-03 and i dont even realize all the bad things about it cause i dont know any better :) im enjoying it for sure but once its time to move on to something bigger im gonna notice a lot of flaws on it once i've ridden something like Tracer 7 or what ever.
Suspension is a minefield especially if you don't know enough about it. I'm very much an amateur with these things. Due to rider weight I have changed my springs for heavier duty progressive springs. Gives far better control and stops fork dive, and for now I am running with the suggested settings from the spring provider. I'll make small changes if I feel it will assist, but it's easy to undo a change if it's not right 👍🏻
Ehhhh Pavlin, you are so right about the importance of suspension! I can give myself for example: The only reason I wish to change my Honda Transalp 700, is that the suspension is not good for bad dirt roads, which I start to love more and more. The bike is just not designed for that. BUT... it is so reliable that I plan to exploit it to the limit, and then, one day, eventually replace it with better suited motorcycle :)
I totally agree here. Sadly around my town, all we have are motorcycles sellers and parts replacers. I asked two Honda dealers help to replace springs on my AT and both were useless.
Yeah I am a 120kg (without gear) rider on a honda NX500, I've adjusted the preload on the rear but that's it since it's the only adjustment available. I could see a massive difference in how much front dive I was getting on hard breaking just from adjusting the rear preload. And could also see that I was getting bounced less on things like speed bumps. I am looking at changing the front spring and cartridges and the rear for YSS suspension (relatively affordable here in Thailand). I just need to make sure they can adapt the spring rate to my weight. I am still on the fence though cause for now the bike does what I need (very light off-road) and chill riding. But I am pretty sure I would regret not having done it earlier as soon as I change the suspensions...
For your kind of trips springs change should be sufficient. For more off-road without changing the cartridge it make no sense. I totally agree that suspension is critical that's why after my first serious crash I decided to invest in proper set of susp. as a first serious motor upgrade. But don't judge people, they mostly travel tarmac as you but in shorten distances. It is ok for them to use stock.
I would love to hear your comments on the CfMoto 450 MT after a test ride. People are comparing it to the T7 calling it a smaller T7 or half price T7. You would be a great person to give it a review
Definitely for me the proper suspension set up/tuning/customisation is the best possible upgrade after the heated grips (I love them so much). Even though I am the perfect weight of 80 kg. this is without gear and luggage. Maybe 5-7 kg of riding gear is not making huge difference but 15-20 kg. of luggage for long distance travel are already substantial weight that influences the suspension behaviour. In conclusion you can’t have it all 😂 so the best is to set up the suspension, spring rates, etc. to the situation in which you are riding the bike the most. It won’t be perfect but it will give you the the maximum control and comfort in the most road situation. This is without even opening the Pandora box with the different road surfaces, conditions and speed. 😅
Pavlin, you're a true LEGEND! And absolutely right! Kids: always listen to Prof. Pavlin😊😊😊 Thank you my friend, always telling the truth. Btw. Can you tell me please: what is the brand called from your new springs and where did you ordered it? Thank you verry much and ride safe✌🏻🖐🏻
I can relate. I had Africa Twin and whenever I hit in a sudden situation the front brake, it dives in badly. Now, on my TR900 It is better however I feel wavy even on the paved road when I ride over non-flat asphalt 😅 I did some adjustment to the spring preload and the damping to the shock absorber. It improved a bit but still the waving is there and the front suspension feels hard on some small bumps. My question: do you suggest only on changing the springs on the front suspension? or also the shock absorber on the back? My bad that I missed the live stream yesterday. Thanks for the insight and the help Pavlin. P.S.: I am at the same weight level category as you.
43 mm is not bad or worse than 48 mm by itself. Mountain bike gave me very good experience with suspension. I had an enduro mountain bike with 36 rockshox, very good, plush, could survive the jumps. In my XC mountain bike i have a Fox 32 and its perfect, light and refined. The 36 would be too heavy and would loose sensitivity. With motorcycles the same, a good 43 mm ohlins Will be better than a standard 48 mm kyb or showa or even wp. I have the standard Tenere suspension tunned by me, for my weight and riding style and works very good. Im 79 kg 😊
There are very few thorough TH-camrs who know concept of suspension and differences between manufacturers, even less who can explain intricacies regarding road / off road disciplines. Lone Wolf motorcycle club covered many popular adventure motorbikes, is very well known by RU community and has got few ENG videos.
I am on the other end of the scale weight wise. I am 25% lighter than the 80kg rider. Most motorcycle suspensions are in stock form a wee bit too stiff. Any advice on this? I found my CB500F with the spring preload set at the rear at the softest setting OK (I get about 10mm max sag). I have never in my life ever managed to bottom out a bike's suspension. How about a dedicated video for us skinny butt riders?
A problem that has surfaced with the KYB suspension is that some of the Compression legs have been assembled upside down and therefore don't function correctly and damage the discs inside. Apparently this doesn't apply to 2024 model. I suggest your friend gets his forks stripped and inspected as Aprilia haven't issued a recall. Finally the problem didn't affect every bike.
Most people are dishonest with themselves.. the factors are straight forward..how much do you weigh?!, not what you think you weigh or your dream weight, reality. Where do you ride most? Yes everyone is Mr. Adventure but how much time off road does your bike spend in real life vs fantasy of thousands of miles of single track in virgin terrain.. and what does your gear weigh? Bags filled with your stuff.. often Yamaha and Honda have bikes set up for @165-175 pound riders, no luggage and no beer belly, no boots, helmet and riding gear..most American riders are coming in @50+! pounds over that just to start..new springs are an easy and cheap start.
Question.... If I installed stiffer fork springs, does it affect fork oil weight and/or fork seals? Seems like it might.... Thanks for the good video...
Some of the aprilia bikes have the valve pistons installed backwards and that's why they fail. This might've been one of them. (edit: Realized you mentioned this later in the video)
Expert suspension specialist will tell you that changing the springs only is not the best. It will help for a while but its really not ideal. Because the hydraulic part is also made to fit the spring mounted as standard. So it is generally better to change valving and shims at same time as springs. Thats why nowadays you should rather change the whole cartridge on forks and switch the rear suspension unit totally. Changing the spring is just a cheap mods to be able to enjoy your motorcycle better if you are above 90Kg. Standard springs and suspension are generally fine for anyone from 70 to 85kg.
You don't know how good, or bad the damping components are, unless you have proper spring rates. If you have a decent quality suspension (i.e. you didn't buy the cheapest bike out there and you have full adjustability), the internals will be sufficiently good for most people, in most situations. I'm riding with stock forks on my Fireblade. Only the springs are changed. From touring, to city and even some track riding, it's been quite good.
@@johnnyblue4799 My point was that internals are made to work together with the std spring. if you change spring its better to change the rest too. of course it can be just fine if its a minimal change in spring. Everyone has different sensibility to suspension work and adjustment.
@@romroger I'd agree with that if the suspension has no adjustability for damping. If it does and it's not very crappy (if you can feel the difference the clickers make), you can probably make it work with a different spring. Of course, if you're a demanding rider and you can really use the bike to it's full potential, it might not be enough, but for most riders out there, it usually is. It depends on the type of riding too. But before one spends thousands to upgrade the suspension, maybe a different fluid weight will also make a difference.
Does this also apply for street bike? I want to buy middle category naked for road riding and take passenger sometimes, is it worth new springs? for something like gsx8-s or hornet and 110 kg rider.
If you're 110 kg and you also want to take a passenger, a higher rate spring is not worth it, it's mandatory. You might want to get a shock with remote preload adjustment, because the sag will be much different between solo riding and two up. That will allow you to adjust your sag in seconds, only by turning a knob.
A regular bike (not MX) is designed for a 70-80kg rider. If you have more weight, then you set the preload and that is TOTALLY sufficient for 99.99% of all riders. If you are way heavier and have your wife on the bike, then you need s stronger spring. Which means you also need appropriate fork oil (viscosity). Either you do it yourself -> $300-$500 or your mechanic does it $1k-$2k. So either way - worth to adjust the springs ... and you can feel it !
Totally agree Pavlin, People have to understand also that but adding all these gadgets to their bike increases the weight, and by not adjusting the suspension could cause fatigue or failure in the frame, ending the trip prematurely
Problem is that most,if not all ,so called "specialist" start by stating your stock suspension is crap and needs to be replaced with their "pro special"stuff"witch typically always is very expensive.Fact is that most stock suspension when properly adjusted will for 80% of most bikers be completely adequate according to their use of the bike cq style of riding.Only buy what you really NEED guys!
Would be interested to know your opinion of electric suspension. The 2024 Africa twin standard model is available with ES for about an extra £1500, would you be better to spend the money upgrading the standard suspension or going with the electric variation?
@motorcycleadventures it won't help in any way with the rider weight but it makes a huge difference to Comfort as long as it's in the setting. And really sharpening the handling in sport setting
W zeszłym roku posiadałem Afrykę 1100 wersję L z standartowym zawieszeniem i po pół roku wymieniłem wkłady oraz tył na touratecha i poprawa była zauważalna zarówno przez ze mnie jak i pasażera. Ale po kilku wyjazdach z pasażerem zawieszenie już lepiej działało pod pełnym obciążeniem ale niestety mimo to wygoda nie była duża dlatego też moim zdaniem Afryka jest bardziej jedno osobowa. I trochę przypadek sprawił że mogłem przejechać się BMW GS 1200 ( olejak) z zawieszeniem ohlinsa i to doznanie zmieniło wszystko. Postanowiłem sprzedać afryka i zacząłem szukać wersję olejaka z ohlinsem i jakie było moje zaskoczenie że na rynku nie można nic kupić, stąd poszukałem zwykła wersję która o dziwo ma zawieszenie WP. Po około 3 miesiącach stwierdziłem że jednak dużo mu brakuje do Ohlinsa, ale okazał się jeden problem gdyż te zawieszenie przestało być produkowane. I zacząłem poszukiwania co można założyć ale jedynie co można jeszcze kupić do tej wersji to jest zawieszenie touratecha, po kilkunastu dniach nie przespanych i mnóstwie telefonów stwierdziłęm że plusów jest więcej niż jednego dużego minusa czyli ceny. Czas oczekiwania był prawie 2 m-c ale zaraz po wymianie da się odczuć poprawę szczególnie przy pełnym załadunku, zawieszenie działa a nie tylko dobija jak było wcześniej. Poprawiło się znacznie prowadzenie motocykla w zakrętach oraz na nierównej drodze. Dlatego też jak Pawlin mówi zamiast "świecidełek" zainwestuj w zawieszenie które naprawdę da znacznie więcej niż wyświetlacz tft lub inna bzdura.
Earlier this year I bought a new Suzuki GSX-8R. The engine, transmission, handling, safety features are excellent, but it's not as comfortable as I would like for long distance trips. (It's really hard on my lower back.) I've been thinking about bringing it to a mechanic to have the suspension analyzed and changed. But after watching this video I'm wondering if changing the suspension is worth the expense. What do you think? Is there something else I could do to make the bike more comfortable for me?
Watch this video: th-cam.com/video/0HC3vavO-8I/w-d-xo.html It is old but it might give you some answers. If nothing works you can upgrade the suspension.
@@motorcycleadventures Thank you so much, this is excellent advice! In fact, I bought a seat cushion ($35 from Amazon) that made a big difference, without it I would not have been able to take the two trips that I have. I agree with you, the next step would be to improve the seat. I will try that first and then consider whether a suspension upgrade is worth it. Thank you again for the excellent advice!
What does it mean "not as comfortable"? Can you define that? I doubt lower back pain has much, if anything, to do with the suspension and more with the ergonomics of the bike and the way you sit on it. Any previous injuries, or back problems? Your suspension is not adjustable as far as I know, so not much a mechanic can do with it in stock form.
@@johnnyblue4799 The GSX-8R has similar ergonomics to my previous bike, a Honda VFR 800. (Loved that bike BTW, it was totaled when a deer ran in front of me and there was no way to avoid hitting it.) I rode the VFR across the US in 2022 with reasonable comfort. That's one reason why I picked the GSX-8R. But I can't ride it for more than 30 minutes without getting lower back pain the next day. I bought a seat cushion which made a big difference. However I still think the front suspension is harsher than I'd like. (I feel every little bump.) It's a shame it's not adjustable, but I knew that when I bought it. Otherwise it's an excellent bike, the motor is especially good, very user friendly and fun at the same time. It needs a much better seat, I'm thinking over the winter I might try replacing the stock foam with something better.
How about doing a video for us skinny butt guys (60-70 kg weight range) on the other end of the spectrum, what's the positives and negatives of suspension that's too firm? What options are available, also the cost implications would be good to compare?
At just under 70 kg I've found somebikes incredibly soft even for me😂😂....what happens with 100kg on board ive no idea....down in stroke and steers like a Harley possibly...
What if the suspension, especially on the back wheel, does the opposite of bottoming out? It extends to the maximum after you passed a rock, a speed bump or something and you feel it extends to the maximum and hits at the end.
If your motorcycle is not made by a famous Japanese or European brand, 99% you're out of luck finding suitable springs - one more point to consider before buying a 2nd or any next bike (1st one usually doesn't matter, it is temporary in most cases). I have a Chinese bike, CF Moto 300NK, and can confirm that suspension (non-adjustable) is not for my weight (~95 kg with riding gear). Still alright, but could be better. Good suspension for touring-enduro bikes might feel a bit more harsh on straight road, but as soon as you hit uneven ground, all benefits of proper suspension travel (usually 30% up / 70% down) become obvious. Same applies to offroad cars (SUV's), which come from the factory tuned for road.
Hi I am from Saudi Arabia, traveling cross Europe, reached NordCap and returning home. I am currently in Sofia full day today. if you have time, i love to see you . Adnan
@@motorcycleadventures thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, my route is not through your city or nearby. I was always hoping to meet you because I watch your channel and I really like all of your videos.. you inspire me But please, if you visit Saudi Arabia I am in the eastern province. Come and visit us.
Hi iam a 115kilo rider...sometimes i carry luggage and sometimes not...i experience the diving you were talking about and its very annoying because i cant drive as fast as i want offroad....can u tell me where i can learn which kind of springsize i do need?
I've always thought at the same price point fully adjustable suspension would be lower quality than non adjustable suspension as the extra hardware to allow the adjustment carries extra cost.
Aprilia Official made a video about the Rally Raid Tuareg and was a kind of mea culpa. One might have to be a real Tuareg person to note the differences.
If you want to know what proper out of the box off-road suspension should feel like get a ride on a Yamaha WR450. If you want to see what total garbage suspension feels like take a test ride on a Honda CRF300L.
In those days in the late 80s when you were still behind the iron curtain we change on travel mode with 2 persons the rear spring and it works - so simple 🤡
Yeah, no KTM starts with good quality suspension, my Honda CB500X came with the cheapest suspension. I can live without the horsepower but I need suspension. Thanks Rally Raid!
@@motorcycleadventures Need to check some things here then. Love the content. Just had lots of audio drop out. Sorry to be a pain. Damn. computer weirdness ? Thanks so much for reply.
In my 40+ years i experience the same.
Growing up having bikes with skinny flexy forks and twin pogo sticks on the rear, any modern suspension feels "ok".
I learned as a teenager how to strip and service my suspension as i couldn't afford to take it to a specialist.
Thankfully back then there were knowledgeable people willing to share information without signing up to a patreon or pay a consultantancy fee which seems to be the norm now.
The ktm 890 R suspension is heads above the other adv bikes but far from ideal.
I have converted mine to have externally adjustable comp and rebound in both forks, dlc coated legs and slightly more travel.
The shock is harsh as standard, having poor shim stacks of very thick shims.
A change to the the WP factory piston, new shim stacks, three way compression adjuster and a stiffer spring has worked wonders. It tracks straight, doesn't kick anymore and the range of adjustment is far superior.
Ridden back to back I'd go as far to say it works better than the stock Pro suspension on the rally version but at considerably less expense.
240mm is plenty for the majority of people. I use it on mx track and it copes brilliantly. ❤
However, if i was to race rally or ride extremely high speed i would op for the long travel version for extra safety.
90% of adv riders would not be able to tell the difference.
I get people ask me which place i recommend for suspension tuning.
My first reply is "have you tried all clicker positions, oil levels and correct spring rates ?"
The answer is nearly always NO.
I have adjusted a friends settings after servicing the fork and shock for him. He asked what mods I'd done as it was "unreal" 😂 There was an evil opportunity there to tell him I'd revalved and done some other mods, and i know of some unscrupulous dealers that do exactly that, because the majority of owners will have not touched a clicker or preload setting since getting the bike and think its a miracle. They tell them its been revealved, put a fancy sticker on and charge a fortune for an service and tweak the adjusters.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Спасибо за информацию, все верно
Одно плохо что можно у вас заказать в России это другие деньги и порой на порядок больше чем у вас.
I was riding my KTM200EXC with a group. One of the guys was an enduro rider. When we stopped for lunch he said he could see my suspension was terrible.
He rode my bike for a couple of minutes, came back and adjusted some things, rode it again, adjusted some more, rode it again, came back and gave it to me. "It's not perfect but that's way better"
I couldn't tell any difference.
Im mostly a Jeep guy. And the arguments I get into because most people have no idea what a spring versus a shock actually do on a suspension. On road, spring rate is far less important. But off road, spring rate is king. I don't care if you have $5,ooo custom shocks built, have the wrong spring rate for your vehicle's weight and intent, and that is $5ooo wasted. Thanks for trying to get people to understand there is more than just the brand name of a suspension that makes it either work or falter.
Glad to help!
Thanks for all your true words, the same with all electronics that people think will save their lives in all situations
Absolutely!
Ride your bike on your terms! Don’t let the bike take you for a ride 😊
Such an important part of any long trip, because correctly working suspension reduces fatigue and is safer.
Good one.
Ride safe 👍
Absolutely!
This video is so good and spot on that i would just shake your hand Pavlin. This is a LIGHTHOUSE in the dark of motorcycle marketing which leads us to... I dont know. ADV Style wannabe with loads of fake motorcycles. Oversized, and overweight. But what i can see from my perspective, people are mostly interested in gadgets.Conectivity, bluetooth, cruise controls, tire pressure sensors and LED lights and so on. Who cares for rest. Once again, video is so good il watch it twice!
Glad to help!
My Ohlin’s suspension is a game changer. My confidence is up 100%
Good!
Good!
Well-said Pavlin! Unfortunately. it's more exciting to sell bike with a larger engine and a shitload of electronics (because bike has more power than what most riders can safely handle) rather than sell a bike with good suspension. Power excites, good suspension doesn't.
Good suspension is like a good politician/leader - you barely notice the good work it's consistently doing, it provides solid foundations for everything else to work well, and it should be chosen to align with your mission. Sadly these qualities are often overlooked by voters/consumers and politicians/markters exploit this.
I upgraded the forks and shock on my CRF300L to Rally Raid Level 1. It has about 40mm less travel than OEM but with the right spring rates, the bike actually gained some ground clearance and it's better to ride everywhere. On road, because the geometry is now correct, it corners like a supermotard and handles in the rain much better. And offroad, it handles jumps, landings and harsh hits very well due to the progressive damping and larger oil capacity in the shock.
Was it an expensive upgrade? Yes. Would I do it over again? Yes for sure.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Pavlin you are a true academic on adv motorcycle field!
Cool, but I just shared my experience!
Everything you explain seems very sensible to me, as well as interesting and instructive. Even the big BMW GS have mediocre suspensions, despite their electronic adjustments. The problem of cost containment affects all manufacturers. On the other hand, it is not reasonable to think that with the same spring the suspension can respond optimally to very different requirements (for example driving with or without a passenger, on- and off-road).
Exactly!
You are so right! I would add that having the proper spring rate also improves the ride because the damping of the shock is designed to be progressive, that is, the further that you are in the stroke, the harsher the damping becomes. So not only are you left with only 100 mm of travel in the case of your T7, the damping is in the harshest part of the stroke. This is why it is important to be “up in the stroke” during normal riding conditions.
Exactly! Thanks for adding!
You are maybe confused, progressive (and digressive) damping rates refers to how the damping reacts to different speeds. Position-controlled damping is normally only found on PDS shocks as there is no linkage to change the shock displacement (and thus speed) for any given wheel movement. Top-level riders routinely change the linkage in combination with valving changes as they work together and can be running a rising rate or a falling rate depending on the track.
Most hobby riders who buy a dirt bike and don't ride it hard enough complain the suspension is too harsh on small small bumps and re-valve to progressive damping, someone riding tracks with big jumps and g-outs wants digressive damping and the usual compromise is linear damping.
Wist niet dat er ook degressive demping bestond.
Is dat dan het omgekeerde dan van progressieve demping ?
@@fingerscrossed2317 Sure, the low-speed is often controlled by a bleed hole which by-passes the oil around the shim stack (there are many other ways to do this) and at higher speeds the shims start to blow open allowing the wheel to move up faster, the other way round you can use a shim to close a hole to get the reverse effect. It's complicated in a shock!
To get a position controlled system needs either bleed holes in a moving damper rod or more usually like in the WP PDS system an extra piston and valve assembly.
@@jimtitt3571oke, interesting, thanks for explanation.
But Tenere 700 doesn't have any of that.,. because hard bumps are giving through.
I thought this has something to do with progressive suspension that was making the difference in this.
Which suspension has this for the Tenere 700 ?, because this should be a nice upgrade.
I had similar experiences! Good to hear true words in a world full of lies and misleadings ❤
Good!
Palin, the Aprilla was Defective! The Shims were bent & I just watched your aprilla update. Good job, you knew last year there were problems from the factory. Experience!! Good man, God bless you & your family.
Christopher nyc
Thanks for adding!
Agree on all points.
I did a suspension upgrade on my bike, with an another shock absorber and cartridge upgrade.
From my Mountainbike background I know which great effect a good suspension can cause.
So I did it, and was not disappointed. On the one hand stiff and controllable on good tarmac, on the other hand enough to absorb and don’t loose the contact to the surface on really bad tarmac on “high” speed or bumps on gravel road.
Yes it is a lot of money for me, but it is also a big step up for my safety because of the control.
Ride safe.
Thanks for sharing!
Such knowledgeable info being conveyed on this channel. Appreciate you tackling the suspension topic in basic language. So much to learn.🤦
Glad to help!
"Soft springs, hard ride" I also experienced on my FZ6 2005, but after changed to Hyperpro progressive springs, became "hard spring soft ride", and more stable on braking and cornering. Normal forks with no additional settings option. Worthfull investment definitely. Good luck on your future trips and stay safe.
Thanks for sharing!
fair opinion! changing the oil viscosity is also a cheap trick before braking the bank.
You have to do it with the new springs anyway.
Pavlin,I agree in you about expirience all these trips you have...Hours,and hours on motorcycle it really shows .. Congratulations!
Many thanks!
You got some good points and are definitely correct. But this will mostly (if not only) affect people who want to go on offroad adventures or on a racetrack on regular occassion.
The modern bikes have cheap supsension so they can save cost and sell the bikes on a better rate (or make them affordable like Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki). Of course when you customize your bike with everything that is suited exactly for you, it will perform better after you change your suspension for example. But when you make a custom bike, re-selling it is annoying. For exapmle, you spending over 1500-2000€ in the suspension. You will never get the money back that you invest in customizing it. Always keep this in mind. Of course this holds true even for Topcases and side cases or any other things you add to the bike.
Regarding your point on the stock suspension. They are not good, this is true. They work fine on a normal road environment in which most of us will ride in. I have a NT 1100 DCT from Honda. The only thing adjustable is the preload for the back. Not the front. The spring is itself are also not the best for my weight (112kg) and my riding style. For my kind of use for normal european roads, they are working fine. If I would "ride hard" or put the bike through abnormal abuse like hard braking, accelerating, drifting, jumping... then yes, It would feel like riding on pudding or that you are about to break the bike.
Otherwise of course a good video from you. But I would advise anyone to really think what you want and where you actually ride in. Sometimes we overestimate the type of riding we are doing. I did in the past, customized the hell out of the bike. Best suspension etc. only for me selling it after 2 years as I wanted something new. That is why I am more hesitant on putting too much money into it. Ride safe.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Oh my. Yes i have learned a LOT about suspension. I ride my T7 on single track and the biggest upgrade was my suspension. The funny thing is, I have learned enough that the factory suspension is by far good enough when built to the riding style. For most of us the expensive name brand suspension is massive excess. For my 1290SA-R, the factory suspension is just fine for how i ride it. I have had several dirt bikes and that’s where I learned about how important suspension setup is.
Thanks for sharing!
One of your best videos! Thanks for breaking through the BS so many are falling for.
Glad it was helpful!
Yes, it is a very important topic. Many do "decorate" their bikes with heavy, passive "protection" of all kind, and neglect the most important ACTIVE safety items - the suspension + tires 🤷♂🤷♂
Exactly!
I'm 51 years old, and since I was in my early twenties, I have been continuously shocked that the dealers/manufactures don't offer as part of the standard buying experience, a bike FITTING AT TIME OF PURCHASE. With all the babble in the advertising about technology, technology, technology, technology, they still happily sell bikes, pre-set-up for a rider of 170 lbs to a guy weighing 300 lbs , and with a straight face.
With all the competition of yesterday, today and tomorrow, can one of these companies figure out how to get the bike set up from the dealer for a riders weight? Then the rider gets the "performance" he paid for…🤔👌
This will be great, but I highly doubt that any of them will make this effort!
Exactly🙏
Absolutely right! It's amazing really to see how many riders are riding bikes with suspension completely out of tune for their weight, sticking to stock settings and the dealerships are keeping quiet on the topic.
Ja inderdaad,. maar dat is vast wel bespreekbaar (indien mogelijk)
My Austrian Dealer (Loitz/Lauterach) did that for me.
Of course, I asked politely for it during the price negotiations.
Very true Pavlin. 95% of my research trying to understand things shows me websites & videos just saying the top of the line hardware is simply BEST... which is also the most expensive 😁.
Really hard to bypass the marketing on the internet.
Exactly!
Put in the Öhlins Cartridge Kit FSK 114 in my Tenere with 6.5 springs for my weight and it's a superb upgrade! Maybe I will buy the rear shock from Öhlins too.
Thanks for sharing!
Great advice.. I never change anything until I figure out what it needs for my own use..Alot of people change things because of a recommendation from someone else. not considering weight riding conditions and ability.
Glad it was helpful!
2:07 absolutely, after changing the spring the geometry of the bike becomes properly straight light which results in: the rear wheel is constant in contact with ground.
I am 86KG without the gear and probably 95KG with the gear, so yes, changing the spring and setting it to the propper 66mm SAG (or 1/3 of the travel capacity) changed a lot in my case.
I agree with you, a lot of people buy expensive bikes, very expensive mods (without even needing them) and never actually go farther than a local Starbuck
It is what it is!
I weigh 100kg and I have a Honda transalp, I did exactly what you mentioned and put a stiffer spring on the shock and stiffer springs and valves in the forks. I had the work done by a suspension specialist, because i am not confident enough to do the valveing, and it only cost roughly €1000. It is a big improvement off road, however, even on tarmac, I think the bike rides better.
Thanks for sharing!
Great info and spot on.... I have a 2024 tenere 700 and I weigh 225+ lbs...I changed the fork & shock springs and wow what a nice improvement...and for only a couple hundred USA bucks..75nm front forks and 95nm rear shock...
Perfect!
I weigh 210 lbs and went 75 on front 114 on rear(No preload) . Big improvement.
The show must go on!👍!
It must!
You're so right Pavlin. I've seen £15k bikes that don't have basic sag setup but with £1000 worth of exhaust and luggage. Crazy. Setting up a bike for your weight and spending time and some money upgrading suspension should be the first thing people do when they buy a bike.
It is what it is!
My motorcycle 2010 version has basic suspension. I'm heavy and only changed the preload on the rear shock and next up fork oil. Handles most things and I prefer slightly softer suspension. Yep, many people get sucked in to too many suspension upgrades. Thanks Palvin.
Thanks for sharing!
I completely agree with you my friend. the right suspension for you is more important than every other topic of the motorcycle subject. thank you for the videos. keep going you're doing a great job. Greetings from Greece
Glad to help!
Very well said Pavlin! Thanks for sharing. 👍👍
My pleasure!
proper suspension is something you don't know about until you try it. And a lot of people try a more expensive motorcycle and realize it's better but they don't think that maybe with a little investment in the suspension, their bike could feel the same. And the dealer of course won't tell them because their job is to sell more bikes. Also as you said, the suspension settings don't do much if the spring is too soft for the riders weight. I am about 85 kg with gear so on my v strom 1050, even a quarter of a turn on the rear compression/rebound screw makes a difference :)
Agree!
Yes ! Pavlin you are absolutely correct in what you say @ 16:20, because all the tech gurus ( especially doctors and lawyers ) who have invested in super expensive high-tech motorcycles after hours and hours of private meetings in their clubs over hundreds of bottles of beer but have actually never ridden more than the next village for lunch 😆
Well... it is what it is!
Rule #47: before complaining about and fiddling with the suspension, check your tire pressure. ;-)
Thanks for this video, Pavlin, your views and insights are invaluable!
Good tip!
The thing about the thing, most people that attacked you for stating your opinion on Tuareg's suspension most likely didnt try the better ones so they dont know the feeling. I myself am like that but im aware that im a beginner i can't POSSIBLY know what it feels like to ride anything else than my MT-03 and i dont even realize all the bad things about it cause i dont know any better :) im enjoying it for sure but once its time to move on to something bigger im gonna notice a lot of flaws on it once i've ridden something like Tracer 7 or what ever.
Thanks for sharing!
Suspension is a minefield especially if you don't know enough about it. I'm very much an amateur with these things. Due to rider weight I have changed my springs for heavier duty progressive springs. Gives far better control and stops fork dive, and for now I am running with the suggested settings from the spring provider. I'll make small changes if I feel it will assist, but it's easy to undo a change if it's not right 👍🏻
Thanks for sharing!
A very practical topic.very true😊👍.i bought a new rear suspension and im not comfortable.wasted money.i should bought the stock.much better.😅
Thanks for sharing!
Ehhhh Pavlin, you are so right about the importance of suspension! I can give myself for example: The only reason I wish to change my Honda Transalp 700, is that the suspension is not good for bad dirt roads, which I start to love more and more. The bike is just not designed for that. BUT... it is so reliable that I plan to exploit it to the limit, and then, one day, eventually replace it with better suited motorcycle :)
Thanks for sharing!
I'm swapping the rear spring of my V-Strom 800DE for a heavier one. 👍🏻
Good!
Thank you. Ive been struggling with the oem suspension on my 2023 tenere.
Glad to help!
I totally agree here.
Sadly around my town, all we have are motorcycles sellers and parts replacers. I asked two Honda dealers help to replace springs on my AT and both were useless.
It is what it is!
Хвала Павле. Потпуно си у праву. Ћао
Thanks, man!
Correct. If you dont get somewhat correct sag numbers, so that supension sits in its 1/3 upper range, no amount of clicks will fix harshness.
Exactly!
Yeah I am a 120kg (without gear) rider on a honda NX500, I've adjusted the preload on the rear but that's it since it's the only adjustment available.
I could see a massive difference in how much front dive I was getting on hard breaking just from adjusting the rear preload. And could also see that I was getting bounced less on things like speed bumps.
I am looking at changing the front spring and cartridges and the rear for YSS suspension (relatively affordable here in Thailand). I just need to make sure they can adapt the spring rate to my weight.
I am still on the fence though cause for now the bike does what I need (very light off-road) and chill riding. But I am pretty sure I would regret not having done it earlier as soon as I change the suspensions...
Thanks for sharing!
You are so right
Good!
For your kind of trips springs change should be sufficient. For more off-road without changing the cartridge it make no sense. I totally agree that suspension is critical that's why after my first serious crash I decided to invest in proper set of susp. as a first serious motor upgrade. But don't judge people, they mostly travel tarmac as you but in shorten distances. It is ok for them to use stock.
If they never tried the other option is okay.
Very good real world advice, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I would love to hear your comments on the CfMoto 450 MT after a test ride. People are comparing it to the T7 calling it a smaller T7 or half price T7. You would be a great person to give it a review
When I have the chance!
Great video, with simple, direct and real experience.
I appreciate that!
Definitely for me the proper suspension set up/tuning/customisation is the best possible upgrade after the heated grips (I love them so much). Even though I am the perfect weight of 80 kg. this is without gear and luggage. Maybe 5-7 kg of riding gear is not making huge difference but 15-20 kg. of luggage for long distance travel are already substantial weight that influences the suspension behaviour.
In conclusion you can’t have it all 😂 so the best is to set up the suspension, spring rates, etc. to the situation in which you are riding the bike the most. It won’t be perfect but it will give you the the maximum control and comfort in the most road situation.
This is without even opening the Pandora box with the different road surfaces, conditions and speed. 😅
Do whatever works for you.
@@motorcycleadventures Живи и здрави, в тая държава всеки сам си преценя 🥲😅
Точно!
110% TRUE!
Cheers,
Thanks, man!
Pavlin, you're a true LEGEND! And absolutely right! Kids: always listen to Prof. Pavlin😊😊😊 Thank you my friend, always telling the truth. Btw. Can you tell me please: what is the brand called from your new springs and where did you ordered it? Thank you verry much and ride safe✌🏻🖐🏻
My pleasure! www.off-the-road.de/en/tenere-700/wear-parts/suspension/141292/uprated-fork-springs-linear-yamaha-tenere-700?c=157
Thank you verry much my friend!!🫶🏻🤝🏻✌🏻@@motorcycleadventures
I can relate. I had Africa Twin and whenever I hit in a sudden situation the front brake, it dives in badly. Now, on my TR900 It is better however I feel wavy even on the paved road when I ride over non-flat asphalt 😅 I did some adjustment to the spring preload and the damping to the shock absorber. It improved a bit but still the waving is there and the front suspension feels hard on some small bumps.
My question: do you suggest only on changing the springs on the front suspension? or also the shock absorber on the back?
My bad that I missed the live stream yesterday.
Thanks for the insight and the help Pavlin.
P.S.: I am at the same weight level category as you.
You have o change them both, front and rear.
Never knew this . Thank you ! 🆒😎🤘
Happy to help!
Greatly helpful VDO, bro 👍
Glad to help!
43 mm is not bad or worse than 48 mm by itself. Mountain bike gave me very good experience with suspension. I had an enduro mountain bike with 36 rockshox, very good, plush, could survive the jumps. In my XC mountain bike i have a Fox 32 and its perfect, light and refined. The 36 would be too heavy and would loose sensitivity. With motorcycles the same, a good 43 mm ohlins Will be better than a standard 48 mm kyb or showa or even wp. I have the standard Tenere suspension tunned by me, for my weight and riding style and works very good. Im 79 kg 😊
There is no Ohlins 43mm! There is no physical way 43mm to better than 48mm, if they have have the same components inside.
There are very few thorough TH-camrs who know concept of suspension and differences between manufacturers, even less who can explain intricacies regarding road / off road disciplines.
Lone Wolf motorcycle club covered many popular adventure motorbikes, is very well known by RU community and has got few ENG videos.
Ok
9:19 multiple bounces are because of too low damping (especially rebound), not spring 'softness'
It could be, but I am sure it will be way different with stiffer springs. Also, as a stock, these settings are set in the middle.
@@motorcycleadventures yes, it is possible but I assumed the spring rate is correct (the 1st thing to set up in suspension)
The spring rate is correct for 80kg rider.
I am on the other end of the scale weight wise. I am 25% lighter than the 80kg rider. Most motorcycle suspensions are in stock form a wee bit too stiff. Any advice on this?
I found my CB500F with the spring preload set at the rear at the softest setting OK (I get about 10mm max sag). I have never in my life ever managed to bottom out a bike's suspension.
How about a dedicated video for us skinny butt riders?
Pavlin, you're right...the Driver brings the Bike back home, not the Suspension...Joachim, GSA Rider from Germany.
True!
A problem that has surfaced with the KYB suspension is that some of the Compression legs have been assembled upside down and therefore don't function correctly and damage the discs inside. Apparently this doesn't apply to 2024 model. I suggest your friend gets his forks stripped and inspected as Aprilia haven't issued a recall. Finally the problem didn't affect every bike.
He already did it.
Most people are dishonest with themselves.. the factors are straight forward..how much do you weigh?!, not what you think you weigh or your dream weight, reality. Where do you ride most? Yes everyone is Mr. Adventure but how much time off road does your bike spend in real life vs fantasy of thousands of miles of single track in virgin terrain.. and what does your gear weigh? Bags filled with your stuff.. often Yamaha and Honda have bikes set up for @165-175 pound riders, no luggage and no beer belly, no boots, helmet and riding gear..most American riders are coming in @50+! pounds over that just to start..new springs are an easy and cheap start.
True!
Question.... If I installed stiffer fork springs, does it affect fork oil weight and/or fork seals? Seems like it might.... Thanks for the good video...
With the springs you will receive instructions about the oil quantity and grade. No changes with seals.
Some of the aprilia bikes have the valve pistons installed backwards and that's why they fail. This might've been one of them. (edit: Realized you mentioned this later in the video)
Exactly!
Do you consider a test of electronic protection vests from Helite?
When I have the chance.
Expert suspension specialist will tell you that changing the springs only is not the best. It will help for a while but its really not ideal. Because the hydraulic part is also made to fit the spring mounted as standard. So it is generally better to change valving and shims at same time as springs. Thats why nowadays you should rather change the whole cartridge on forks and switch the rear suspension unit totally. Changing the spring is just a cheap mods to be able to enjoy your motorcycle better if you are above 90Kg. Standard springs and suspension are generally fine for anyone from 70 to 85kg.
I know that very well, but as I said a professional made suspension is something that I cannot afford at the moment.
You don't know how good, or bad the damping components are, unless you have proper spring rates. If you have a decent quality suspension (i.e. you didn't buy the cheapest bike out there and you have full adjustability), the internals will be sufficiently good for most people, in most situations. I'm riding with stock forks on my Fireblade. Only the springs are changed. From touring, to city and even some track riding, it's been quite good.
@@johnnyblue4799 My point was that internals are made to work together with the std spring. if you change spring its better to change the rest too. of course it can be just fine if its a minimal change in spring. Everyone has different sensibility to suspension work and adjustment.
@@romroger I'd agree with that if the suspension has no adjustability for damping. If it does and it's not very crappy (if you can feel the difference the clickers make), you can probably make it work with a different spring. Of course, if you're a demanding rider and you can really use the bike to it's full potential, it might not be enough, but for most riders out there, it usually is. It depends on the type of riding too. But before one spends thousands to upgrade the suspension, maybe a different fluid weight will also make a difference.
Can you make a video and show proper suspension adjustment, both front and rear? Maybe together with Plamen. Thanks
Many bikes don't even have any adjustment on the suspension
I might do it in the future.
Another excellent episode. Where are you from?
Bulgaria
Great and important topic! Поздрав
Thanks, man!
Does this also apply for street bike? I want to buy middle category naked for road riding and take passenger sometimes, is it worth new springs? for something like gsx8-s or hornet and 110 kg rider.
Yes, it is the same for any vehicle, bike car, bus...
If you're 110 kg and you also want to take a passenger, a higher rate spring is not worth it, it's mandatory. You might want to get a shock with remote preload adjustment, because the sag will be much different between solo riding and two up. That will allow you to adjust your sag in seconds, only by turning a knob.
This small or bigger changes it's part of the game Pavlin 😉😉
Agree!
A regular bike (not MX) is designed for a 70-80kg rider. If you have more weight, then you set the preload and that is TOTALLY sufficient for 99.99% of all riders.
If you are way heavier and have your wife on the bike, then you need s stronger spring. Which means you also need appropriate fork oil (viscosity). Either you do it yourself -> $300-$500 or your mechanic does it $1k-$2k.
So either way - worth to adjust the springs ... and you can feel it !
Good advice!
Totally agree Pavlin, People have to understand also that but adding all these gadgets to their bike increases the weight, and by not adjusting the suspension could cause fatigue or failure in the frame, ending the trip prematurely
Absolutely!
Problem is that most,if not all ,so called "specialist" start by stating your stock suspension is crap and needs to be replaced with their "pro special"stuff"witch typically always is very expensive.Fact is that most stock suspension when properly adjusted will for 80% of most bikers be completely adequate according to their use of the bike cq style of riding.Only buy what you really NEED guys!
Agree!
Problem is most stock suspension isn't even adjustable.
Would be interested to know your opinion of electric suspension. The 2024 Africa twin standard model is available with ES for about an extra £1500, would you be better to spend the money upgrading the standard suspension or going with the electric variation?
Remember the ES can be adjusted a lot easier.
It will have the same springs inside. No big difference.
@motorcycleadventures it won't help in any way with the rider weight but it makes a huge difference to Comfort as long as it's in the setting. And really sharpening the handling in sport setting
Thank You
Any time!
W zeszłym roku posiadałem Afrykę 1100 wersję L z standartowym zawieszeniem i po pół roku wymieniłem wkłady oraz tył na touratecha i poprawa była zauważalna zarówno przez ze mnie jak i pasażera. Ale po kilku wyjazdach z pasażerem zawieszenie już lepiej działało pod pełnym obciążeniem ale niestety mimo to wygoda nie była duża dlatego też moim zdaniem Afryka jest bardziej jedno osobowa. I trochę przypadek sprawił że mogłem przejechać się BMW GS 1200 ( olejak) z zawieszeniem ohlinsa i to doznanie zmieniło wszystko. Postanowiłem sprzedać afryka i zacząłem szukać wersję olejaka z ohlinsem i jakie było moje zaskoczenie że na rynku nie można nic kupić, stąd poszukałem zwykła wersję która o dziwo ma zawieszenie WP. Po około 3 miesiącach stwierdziłem że jednak dużo mu brakuje do Ohlinsa, ale okazał się jeden problem gdyż te zawieszenie przestało być produkowane. I zacząłem poszukiwania co można założyć ale jedynie co można jeszcze kupić do tej wersji to jest zawieszenie touratecha, po kilkunastu dniach nie przespanych i mnóstwie telefonów stwierdziłęm że plusów jest więcej niż jednego dużego minusa czyli ceny. Czas oczekiwania był prawie 2 m-c ale zaraz po wymianie da się odczuć poprawę szczególnie przy pełnym załadunku, zawieszenie działa a nie tylko dobija jak było wcześniej. Poprawiło się znacznie prowadzenie motocykla w zakrętach oraz na nierównej drodze. Dlatego też jak Pawlin mówi zamiast "świecidełek" zainwestuj w zawieszenie które naprawdę da znacznie więcej niż wyświetlacz tft lub inna bzdura.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Earlier this year I bought a new Suzuki GSX-8R. The engine, transmission, handling, safety features are excellent, but it's not as comfortable as I would like for long distance trips. (It's really hard on my lower back.) I've been thinking about bringing it to a mechanic to have the suspension analyzed and changed. But after watching this video I'm wondering if changing the suspension is worth the expense. What do you think? Is there something else I could do to make the bike more comfortable for me?
Watch this video: th-cam.com/video/0HC3vavO-8I/w-d-xo.html It is old but it might give you some answers. If nothing works you can upgrade the suspension.
@@motorcycleadventures Thank you so much, this is excellent advice! In fact, I bought a seat cushion ($35 from Amazon) that made a big difference, without it I would not have been able to take the two trips that I have. I agree with you, the next step would be to improve the seat. I will try that first and then consider whether a suspension upgrade is worth it. Thank you again for the excellent advice!
Glad to help!
What does it mean "not as comfortable"? Can you define that? I doubt lower back pain has much, if anything, to do with the suspension and more with the ergonomics of the bike and the way you sit on it. Any previous injuries, or back problems?
Your suspension is not adjustable as far as I know, so not much a mechanic can do with it in stock form.
@@johnnyblue4799 The GSX-8R has similar ergonomics to my previous bike, a Honda VFR 800. (Loved that bike BTW, it was totaled when a deer ran in front of me and there was no way to avoid hitting it.) I rode the VFR across the US in 2022 with reasonable comfort. That's one reason why I picked the GSX-8R. But I can't ride it for more than 30 minutes without getting lower back pain the next day. I bought a seat cushion which made a big difference. However I still think the front suspension is harsher than I'd like. (I feel every little bump.) It's a shame it's not adjustable, but I knew that when I bought it. Otherwise it's an excellent bike, the motor is especially good, very user friendly and fun at the same time. It needs a much better seat, I'm thinking over the winter I might try replacing the stock foam with something better.
How about doing a video for us skinny butt guys (60-70 kg weight range) on the other end of the spectrum, what's the positives and negatives of suspension that's too firm? What options are available, also the cost implications would be good to compare?
Please just don't tell me that I should eat more...😄
I only speak from my personal experience, anything else will be just guesses.
At just under 70 kg I've found somebikes incredibly soft even for me😂😂....what happens with 100kg on board ive no idea....down in stroke and steers like a Harley possibly...
What if the suspension, especially on the back wheel, does the opposite of bottoming out? It extends to the maximum after you passed a rock, a speed bump or something and you feel it extends to the maximum and hits at the end.
Check your rebound settings.
If your motorcycle is not made by a famous Japanese or European brand, 99% you're out of luck finding suitable springs - one more point to consider before buying a 2nd or any next bike (1st one usually doesn't matter, it is temporary in most cases). I have a Chinese bike, CF Moto 300NK, and can confirm that suspension (non-adjustable) is not for my weight (~95 kg with riding gear). Still alright, but could be better. Good suspension for touring-enduro bikes might feel a bit more harsh on straight road, but as soon as you hit uneven ground, all benefits of proper suspension travel (usually 30% up / 70% down) become obvious. Same applies to offroad cars (SUV's), which come from the factory tuned for road.
Hi
I am from Saudi Arabia, traveling cross Europe, reached NordCap and returning home. I am currently in Sofia full day today. if you have time, i love to see you . Adnan
I am from Varna, contact me if you come here.
@@motorcycleadventures thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, my route is not through your city or nearby. I was always hoping to meet you because I watch your channel and I really like all of your videos.. you inspire me
But please, if you visit Saudi Arabia I am in the eastern province. Come and visit us.
That’s so right bad setup suspension takes all confidence away from your ride
True!
Hi iam a 115kilo rider...sometimes i carry luggage and sometimes not...i experience the diving you were talking about and its very annoying because i cant drive as fast as i want offroad....can u tell me where i can learn which kind of springsize i do need?
www.off-the-road.de/en/tenere-700/wear-parts/suspension/141292/uprated-fork-springs-linear-yamaha-tenere-700?c=157
@@motorcycleadventures thx😃👍🏾
I've always thought at the same price point fully adjustable suspension would be lower quality than non adjustable suspension as the extra hardware to allow the adjustment carries extra cost.
Not really!
@@motorcycleadventures so adjustable suspension doesn't cost more ?
Aprilia Official made a video about the Rally Raid Tuareg and was a kind of mea culpa. One might have to be a real Tuareg person to note the differences.
Ok
Could you please link the video?
👌👍💪😎
Thanks for watching!
"Hey Pavlin! I also weigh 105 kg. Will the suspension in the Tenere Extreme cause similar issues? Have you had a chance to test it?"
It is basically the same suspension with 20mm more travel and preload, so yes! change the springs and you will understand what I mean!
@@motorcycleadventures but from were to
buy this biger springs ?
www.off-the-road.de/en/tenere-700/wear-parts/suspension/141292/uprated-fork-springs-linear-yamaha-tenere-700?c=157
2003 f650gs ... suspension...adjusted up or down simples 🤣 travel light
Good!
You are the only person I heard saying the Aprilia suspensions are crap...maybe you should focus on reliability issue of KTMs
Well... not anymore, check TH-cam for Aprilia Tuareg suspension problems.
@@motorcycleadventures check out all the videos about KTMs problems and you'll discober that Aprilia is a rather motorcycle.
KTM is even worse, but at least it has better suspension.
@@motorcycleadventures but you said only thr Rallye version
Yes!
👍
Thanks for watching!
👌👌👌👌
Thanks for taking the time!
If you want to know what proper out of the box off-road suspension should feel like get a ride on a Yamaha WR450. If you want to see what total garbage suspension feels like take a test ride on a Honda CRF300L.
Agree!
In those days in the late 80s when you were still behind the iron curtain we change on travel mode with 2 persons the rear spring and it works - so simple 🤡
It will be much better but faraway from what it needs to be.
Can someone explain what this actually means ?
Yeah, no KTM starts with good quality suspension, my Honda CB500X came with the cheapest suspension. I can live without the horsepower but I need suspension. Thanks Rally Raid!
Thanks for sharing!
Something wrong with audio. Keeps dropping out.
Not in my side and you are the only one who complains.
@@motorcycleadventures Need to check some things here then. Love the content. Just had lots of audio drop out. Sorry to be a pain. Damn.
computer weirdness ? Thanks so much for reply.
Ride a bicycle, and get cardio.
🚴🏼🚴🏼🚴🏼
No thanks!
LOL
Thanks for watching!