Sauron, sitting alone on a dais in the Far East of Rhun wearing a loose fitting Red/Gold kimono: "I should continue my master's work and take over the world. To set in order of course."
Sauron: I am the rightful ruler of this world! The most powerful and wisest of beings! No one can hope to match me! Morgoth: 👀 Gil-Galad and Elendil: 👀 👀 Huan: 🐶 Like 20% of the Shire: 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
Our fair lord Mairon spent centuries labouring to aid us after the Cataclysm. Ever his heart was turned toward our suffering, and how he might alleviate it. 🙏
I like the idea that Sauron had no part in any of the in-fighting, territorial struggles, and cultural backsliding going on in the early Second Age. He looked around at the chaos and thought, "The only way people are going to get along and work together is if someone makes them. I guess it's going to have to be me."
One thing that I find interesting is the apparent difference between Utumno and Angband vs Baradur. Morgoth ever delved deep underground, but Sauron went up. He planned so big and high a fortress that he couldn't finish it until the forging of the one ring Maybe he liked his time in Minas Tirith (the one Finrod built) or maybe he was rationalizing; he wasn't a Dark Lord down in hell. He was a lord of order in a mighty tower...
Interesting thought! It could also be that Morgoth's philosophy was one of suffusing his essence through Arda, and so making it porous and filling it with the implements of his malice fitted that. In contrast, Sauron had intended to tower over Middle-earth, as it were (though succumbing to the same problem as Morgoth as his motives decayed). Or it could be down to Morgoth fearing Varda and her stars (and to a lesser degree Manwë and his eagles), seeking shelter from the sky by going underground. Sauron could either see such fears as pointless, or simply rely on the climate of Mordor to shield his base of operations. Anyway, plenty to contemplate.
@EriktheRed2023 I like the fear of Varda thing. It somehow connects. Morgoth could shield himself as he did to cover the sun. But I think he has a more cosmic understanding of the Valar than Sauron; or fear them more as he thinks they would intervene. To some essence Manwe is the air that globes Arda so he went down to Aule's realm. And he understands it better
Of course and thats a good observation. It shows the desire of domination over other minds and wills Sauron wants to achieve since desire to control others should first derive its core from the desire to see all and know all that his servants are doing which only becomes possible once you build a tower you can see everything around. This also perfectly makes sense with Saurons symbol as the Eye. Morgoth on the other hand delves deeper because of his desire to make himself one with the Earth, his desire to corrupt the works of Aule and his desire to shield himself from light. Morgoth is also known for his lust to exert extreme emotions which took the form of ice or fire. Ice and fire is most found within the depths of the underworld
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Eru place The Flame Imperishable into the heart of Arda at the creation? It may have been that Morgoth was seeking the Fire in his delvings. Sauron's thing for skyscrapers could be seen in a similar light; seeking the cold heights and outer darkness to escape the Fire, fearing it. Or maybe he just didn't want his house to smell like orc. Just sayin' 🤔
Have you ever tried to get horror out of a shag carpet after a Dol Guldur party? Dark sorcery? More like orc slime and werewolf droppings everywhere. You'd think an all-powerful "dark lord" could at least house train his filthy underlings.
Sauron discovered weed and then went on a decades long descent into hard drug addiction, and then spent centuries trying to keep clean. Finally after a millennium of drug-induced highs and the misery of detox, Sauron had an epiphany: power would be his drug and the One Ring was perceived. O yes, that and Sauron spent years listening to the death metal of Morgoth.
I remember the shock I experienced when I first read the appendices and learned about Morgoth: "Wait-wait-wait---there was somebody worse than Sauron?? How can that be??" Sauron is a case study of how means (re)shape the ends. Rotten heart, rotten means: rotten results, no matter the "good" intentions expressed. Sauron is the epitome of political cult leaders. I really enjoyed this video! Thanks!
"Sad Dragon Noises." Is there such a sound? I figured Gil-Galad, Galadriel, and Elrond basically had a "this is a little too good to be true" reaction because things felt off although they didn't know what it was. I don't think they suspected it was Sauron; I don't think the Elves realized it was Sauron behind all the evil that had been stirring in the east as well as the being behind the Annatar guise until Sauron first put one the One Ring. Celebrimbor on the other hand, like quite a few before him, was far more interested in learning what he could learn and do than asking if it was really a good idea. P.S. I miss "hey squad."
To be fair, we've grown from 'squad', blown past 'platoon', passing even 'company' (as appropriate as that was), probably in the area of 'battalion', and must be fast approaching 'brigade'.
I like that you bring out that Sauron was not ready for war when he forged the one ring. He might even have not expected it, feeling perhaps, that the peoples of middle earth would thank him. Thanks as ever GNG.
“His vision was always to improve the physical prosperity and orderliness of his subjects.” - He had to destroy Eregion in order to save it. (That’s a Boomer reference.)
GNG: "Kicking and screaming if necessary..." Sauron: Well, if you're going to get TECHNICAL." Btw, while I'm not sure that Numenor would have a Greco-Roman or Arab-Turkish motif, that image at 5:09 is disturbing (in cool way). "Please, please, there's enough of me and my gifts for everyone...yes, EVERYONE..."
I think the artist chose that orientalist style to convey a sense of decadence in Numenor rather than present it as some Near Eastern/Mediterranean civilization
now picturing Lexie doing the Onion's "sickos" meme, and what she's looking at is a household that have succumbed to the universal human craving to comb through the _History of Middle-earth_ series looking for tidbits that may illuminate gaps in the Tale of Years (of course this craving is universal. plus shut up)
It seems to me that Celebrimbor failed to see through "Anatar" because he carried the Fëanorian impulsivity and love of creating (magical) technology. When I think about the Fëanorians, I always hear the famous line from Juassic Park: "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." Celebrimbor was so excited by the chance to learn a whole new magical craft that he was blind to the warning signs that other elven leaders saw almost immediately. He thought he would use the products of this craft to benefit all the elves of Middle Earth. But as the Doom of the Noldor decreed, "To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well".
I think there is perhaps something in that, but also in the fact of Celebrimbor's identity. He is the grandson of Fëanor. He probably did notice the vibes were off, he maybe even suspected that this person was a former servant of Morgoth. After all, a lot of people matching that description were kicking around. It might even have crossed his mind that that this Maia was the being people had known as Sauron. But Celebrimbor also needs to believe in the possibility of redemption, for himself and his family. So he needs to believe that a fallen Maia, perhaps even Sauron himself, could be redeemed. In other words, Celebrimbor might very well have suspected that Annatar was Sauron, but this wouldn't have put him off and made him suspicious. Rather, he would have believed that even Sauron deserves a chance to craft a better legacy for himself.
@@sophiejones3554, I like that! Our ideas actually work together well. Celebrimbor wants to believe in redemption *and* wants to learn this cool new tech, and motivated reasoning takes it from there.
Celebrimbor saw the destructiveness and evil of his parents and relatives, so he bent all his desire towards repairing Middle Earth. Sauron abused this desire.
My biggest disappointment in M-E's story is the skipping of the War of Wrath. The sheer lack of details in a 40 year war bad enough that it destroyed a large chunk of the continent is so frustrating.
@@blacksage2375 I'm sure he would have been up to it. Instead he doesn't even give us the arrival of the Valar's army. He really shortchanged us there and I have always wondered why considering his near obsessive writing about his imaginary world.
Forget the War of Wrath. I wanna know about Lindon and Gil Galad. We know basically nothing about them despite Gil Galad ruling for 2000+ years and Lindon being able to keep Sauron away from the coasts.
Sweet analysis. I've often wondered more about Sauron's past, his philosophy, etc. Interesting how on one hand, Sauron says he wants to bring prosperity to the world while taking the Black Eye as his symbol, raising monsters and despots everywhere he can. It is like in a weird way he has at least some good intentions, or perhaps that is just how he started out?
(18:00) I would actually love to see some stories of the elves, and interactions with early men, in this period. I sort of love the idea of these elves, gifted though they are, as still being relatively primal and "unrefined" as the later become. Imagine if early elves were closer to what we might consider them now; earth spirits. Talented no doubt, but still wild and part of the land. Only when they have exposure and time to settle to they evolve into the high culture we see in the early tales. Then maybe later there's a further evolution where they start a slow return to the early days with a steady -but mindful- degradation back to the earth (like Lothlorien).
I always found it quite interesting that throughout the countless Millennia melkors overall goal went from destruction to domination. A very Sauron thing to do. I always wondered if perhaps the very persuasive nature and power of Sauron didn't passively rub off on his master 🤔
Most Alpha Chad depiction I've seen of him. He's usually more etheral bordering on waifish pretty boy. He would absolutely have a men's self-help grindset guru cult these days. Maybe still does...
Saw this drop on my way home. Like fine wine I waited until I could give it my full attention. The title isn't, by chance, a John Prine reference, is it?
1. Yet another splendidly well-researched presentation which makes sense out of a confused and confusing period in the legendarium. 2. The early Second Age is a lot like the Migration Period in Europe (378-600 AD). Old states crumbling, whole peoples moving across the landscape, new states struggling to be born, few and fragmentary records. As a student of the Goths, the Anglo-Saxons, and the Norse, Tolkien would have been extensively familiar with that epoch in European history. 3. You have collected a lot of Tolkien art to illustrate your presentations and it adds a lot. As your selection demonstrates, a lot of Tolkien art is excellent. A few observations thereon: a.) In my opinion, nobody has yet succeeded in drawing or painting credible orcs. Just draw a fugly humanoid and just call it an orc seems to be the usual method. Part of the artistic problem with orcs, though, may be related to the problem of depicting Elves (see below). According to the most credible theory in the legendarium, an orc is a ruined Elf. But there is no sense of lost grandeur, ruined promise, or corrupted beauty in the standard images of orcs. b.) Does Tolkien say anywhere that his Elves have pointy ears? I read most of his stuff and can find nothing to suggest that they do. I suspect (but cannot now prove--would take work that I don't have time for) that what sets Elves apart in the legendarium is not an obvious visual clue like the shape of the ears or even their tallness and extreme handsomeness/beauty, but a "certain something," a combination of physical perfection and the way they bear themselves and comport themselves. An air, if you will. But that, of course, is hard for artists and filmmakers to capture, so they fall back on the pointy ears. It's easier. c.) Much of the Tolkien art out there is clearly influenced by the Peter Jackson films, and not for the better. I am, among other things, a military historian, and so I know a little bit about armor. The armor in the Jackson movies and art influenced by the same is typically angular, with jagged edges and pointy bits sticking out all over the place. You know the kind of thing I mean. It all looks very punk and Dr. Evil and stuff. But the problem is that armor which is angular and has lots of pointy bits and bobs is also weaker, more brittle, and more vulnerable to penetration. Good, effective armor is actually smooth, well-rounded, and presents as few vertical and angled surfaces as possible. Look it up. This is a gripe of mine, and I am sorry to say that too many Tolkien artists follow the Jackson model and draw armor which would actually be useless in combat. Tolkien was a soldier, and he would spot this right away. d.) As you seem to know, much of the finest current Tolkien art comes from Russia and the Russian-speaking part of the world. One of the finest Tolkien artists is someone from that area who is known online as Phobs. Her work (I think it's a her) is often influenced by the Jackson school and some of it also tilts towards Angbang (say no more), but it is good all the same.
With (b), unfortunately Tolkien DID imply that both Elves and hobbits have pointy ears. It was in a 1938 letter to his US publisher regarding illustrations. According to this Bilbo should have: A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown). -- Letter 27
Re your point (a): Y'know. . . Peter Jackson was attempting this "ruined beauty "with Saruman's Uruk-hai. Their bodies are powerfully and symmetrically built, and they are sure-footed and graceful while running. I found them scarier because they *weren't* scuttling and scampering like the goblins of Moria. Their pursuit along the banks of the Anduin was like watching tigers running down their prey. I've tried imagining them in another setting, say, a science fiction tale where they are just a newly-introduced set of non-terrestrials. Absent the association with some great villain, and, of course, minus the growling and howling. . . seen maybe as a mix of wolf and tiger in the face. . . the Uruk-hai have a predatory grandeur. They could have been the Klingons of Middle-Earth?
Fool, thou maiden of Gondor! Hail Sauron! We his dark minions will gather all of your kind in a dark garage and make you organize our game collections!
The Aldarion slander was not necessary! He was busy helping Gil Galad and Erendis needs to learn there’s give and take in a relationship. Sure he may have spent a lil too much time in Eriador checkin out the proto-butterbur’s brew but who can blame him? Thanks for the vids! This one rocked as per usual!
I'll give him this: possibly a less disastrous parent than Feanor. (And Aldarion being awful, of course, does not preclude the possibility of Erendis being at least as bad!)
I mean ... I _like_ Aldarion, but it's pretty hard not to answer the question "Who can blame him?" with "His wife and daughter, both of whom he spent unnecessary decades neglecting, in the service of his boating hobby." Erendis definitely reacted with unproductive bitterness and spite; but Aldarion had given her a lot to be bitter and spiteful about -- and it isn't like he even deigned to tell her about the reasons he had for being abroad that _were_ actually more weighty than "but my boating hobby."
@@GirlNextGondordid Aldarion's actions directly lead to kin-slaying? Then yup, he clears the low, low bar of "not as bad as Fëanor" (Hallmark should open a new line of Father's Day cards)
Sauron wanted only order, a stable and just order that he believed would be good for all. This was his ideal. This would also be a proof of his repentance. Perhaps Sauron had foreseen that free will would always create conflict, and that this would lead to disorder. In this respect, Sauron can be described as good, but what he inherited was the Arda Marred, that is, the spiritual power (will) of Melkor that spread across Arda. I prefer to interpret this situation as follows: Sauron gained the ability to have control over the "Morgoth-element" phenomenon through his will, and perhaps this caused him to return to the bonds of Melkor that bound him, thus causing a recurrence of his fall.
I do wonder if the elves knew the personage from Mordor was the same Anatar. And i think at least Gil Galad must have known but I can't for the life if me understand why Gil Galad and Elrond didn't insist about him with the others. I mean if you're gonna find him so sus that you won't even let him enter your country, you'd probably have some stronger arguments than "he just feels sus", but clearly the arguments weren't made since "he feels sus" seems to have been Galadriel's only argument and not having anything else seems to be why she didn't do much about it. I can't help but feel she would have done more if she had better arguments...
Whenever somebody gains such a deep knowledge of Tolkiens legendarium, it always makes me wonder how they feel about Peter Jackson’s original trilogy of movies. I found the more you learn about the text the less you tend to like the movies even if the movies were the thing that originally brought you in.
For me at least, the films have their own charm that doesn't compare to the pre-Third Age legendarium. I'm just in for the films' soundtrack, visuals, and character performances (especially the 'little moments' between the main characters). The rest of the legendarium doesn't really impact how I feel about the films, as in I don't feel more positively or negatively about them, rather I just appreciate more what a genius Tolkien is, being able to write characters and fictional metaphysics alike with equal skill
As some who first read LOTR decades before the movies came out, that's never been a problem for me. I love the movies even though there's quite a few changes in them that I think were mistakes.
Hhmmm. I have the opposite response. I suspect, though, my opposite response is *because* I read the texts loooong before the movie releases. The texts are set firmly in my mind, and the movies can never completely disturb the reading experience. IMO, what Peter Jackson got right he got so right that it overshadows what I think he didn't get right. For example, I can reduce my outrage about the "re-treatment" of Faramir and Denethor by focusing on the near-perfect casting, not to mention the gorgeous costuming, THE MUSIC and the scenery and settings. I literally gasped when the Fellowship swung around that bend in the river and we looked up at the Argonath. I re-experienced the moment when I first read that passage so long ago. I appreciated the "call-back." In an odd way, my love for the books helps me give less weight to "imperfections" such as plot and character departures in the movies. I more or less just keep the two mediums separate in my head, then deeply appreciate the occasions when the movie "matches" the books.
I read LOTR decades before the movies and I have never before or since felt the same wonder and gratitude at being able to *see* something I had read and loved. They got a lot wrong but what they got right is an incredible gift for me.
Never made sense that they allowed Morgoths 2nd in command any freedom knowing what he had done. He should have been in chains along w his boss. Maybe sent to Mandos for awhile. He surrendered, they said "OK come with us" He does an Irish goodbye and they're like "Ah it'll be fine maybe he's being a good boy somewhere..."🙄
You don't have to interpret these snippets that way. Eönwe and his forces go to get Morgoth, and after the battle Sauron shows up on his own initiative. He may have been clapped in iron, but not expecting to find him, Eönwë doesn't have a ready-made chain like Angainor for the job, and Sauron gives them the slip. Once he's gone, hunting him down could be considered nigh-impossible as well as outside Eönwê's mandate. Or Eönwë correctly sees that Sauron repents for the moment, and believes that for this repentance to last, Sauron must take the next step of his own volition. This would be an echo of Manwë letting Morgoth free, and be done and fail for much the same reasons.
Why the freak didn't the Tolkien estate hire you to write a pilot series, "What cookin' in the crockpot, honey" ...an epic dietary analysis of how to corrupt an entire continent (or two) starting out presenting beneficial plans. Among the ingredients are; Manflesh (tm) spider bite (24 hr relief) and spiced with affordable helpful gifts (that look so good on your hand). More seriously, I wish they Had asked you to have some input avoiding a hot relative mess.
Don't mean to be sexist or anything else, other than its great to hear a woman talking about this subject as it's usually blokes. That's it don't want a big discussion. It just an opinion
Half of my brain is populated by never-written fanfiction set in the Second Age where party of Avari, Eastern Dwarves and Mannish refugees try to hunt some orcish chieftain/gather desperate help as remnants of Morgoth's army ravage the land. So many stories could happen, so many acts of bravery, so many lives lost - Elvish, Dwarven, Mannish, in those times we know so little.
''He went to Tibet, India, Japan, and studied the eastern philosophy and ideas to preach it peacefully to the people of the west, but they rejected him harshly''
"Arda is a mess, and I just need to rule it."
- Sauron
Sensible policies for a happier Arda
Galadriel: "There was no Maia called Annatar in the train of Aule when _I_ lived in Valinor."
Annatar: "Ooh, sarcasm! _That's_ original!"
@@capitalcitygiant A plan so cunning you could put a beard on it and call it a Curunir.
Sauron, sitting alone on a dais in the Far East of Rhun wearing a loose fitting Red/Gold kimono:
"I should continue my master's work and take over the world. To set in order of course."
Who says you can't take a thousand-year-long sick day every once in a while?
I’m in the wrong line of work. I should have been a dark lord.
@@paulgaras2606 The retirement plans are terrible though, the only one worth its while is the Redeemarc (TM), and it can be a bitch to get.
My boss, unfortunately...
@@tombaynes8524 Try offering him a nice ring.
Right? The boss was in jail. What else was Sauron going to do?
The Ringlord is on a vacay and a soul searching expedition (not his soul).
Going to work this joke into as many things as possible now 🤣
Live, Laugh, Lugburz.
@@coreyander286 ahh gkorious Lugburz, you'll love the nightlife.
5:13 obsessed with this artist's interpretation of Sauron including freaky activities as part of his Melkor fan club on Numenor
Ah yes, the race of Men, who above all else desire... power. Definitely power. Why, what did you think I was going to say?
It's very John William Waterhouse. I love it.
Sauron: I am the rightful ruler of this world! The most powerful and wisest of beings! No one can hope to match me!
Morgoth: 👀
Gil-Galad and Elendil: 👀 👀
Huan: 🐶
Like 20% of the Shire: 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
underrated🤣🤣
Sauron is such an interesting character he changes both a lot and so little between the first age and the third age.
Our fair lord Mairon spent centuries labouring to aid us after the Cataclysm. Ever his heart was turned toward our suffering, and how he might alleviate it. 🙏
I find it so moving how readily he assumes the heavy mantle of authority in service of the greater good.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
I like the idea that Sauron had no part in any of the in-fighting, territorial struggles, and cultural backsliding going on in the early Second Age. He looked around at the chaos and thought, "The only way people are going to get along and work together is if someone makes them. I guess it's going to have to be me."
and from a certain point of view, he wasn't wrong (though he still shouldn't have betrayed and murdered Mairon)
@@gabrielblanchard3921 The road to damnation is often paved with good intentions.
One thing that I find interesting is the apparent difference between Utumno and Angband vs Baradur. Morgoth ever delved deep underground, but Sauron went up. He planned so big and high a fortress that he couldn't finish it until the forging of the one ring
Maybe he liked his time in Minas Tirith (the one Finrod built) or maybe he was rationalizing; he wasn't a Dark Lord down in hell. He was a lord of order in a mighty tower...
Interesting thought! It could also be that Morgoth's philosophy was one of suffusing his essence through Arda, and so making it porous and filling it with the implements of his malice fitted that. In contrast, Sauron had intended to tower over Middle-earth, as it were (though succumbing to the same problem as Morgoth as his motives decayed).
Or it could be down to Morgoth fearing Varda and her stars (and to a lesser degree Manwë and his eagles), seeking shelter from the sky by going underground. Sauron could either see such fears as pointless, or simply rely on the climate of Mordor to shield his base of operations.
Anyway, plenty to contemplate.
@EriktheRed2023 I like the fear of Varda thing. It somehow connects. Morgoth could shield himself as he did to cover the sun. But I think he has a more cosmic understanding of the Valar than Sauron; or fear them more as he thinks they would intervene. To some essence Manwe is the air that globes Arda so he went down to Aule's realm. And he understands it better
Of course and thats a good observation. It shows the desire of domination over other minds and wills Sauron wants to achieve since desire to control others should first derive its core from the desire to see all and know all that his servants are doing which only becomes possible once you build a tower you can see everything around. This also perfectly makes sense with Saurons symbol as the Eye. Morgoth on the other hand delves deeper because of his desire to make himself one with the Earth, his desire to corrupt the works of Aule and his desire to shield himself from light. Morgoth is also known for his lust to exert extreme emotions which took the form of ice or fire. Ice and fire is most found within the depths of the underworld
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Eru place The Flame Imperishable into the heart of Arda at the creation? It may have been that Morgoth was seeking the Fire in his delvings. Sauron's thing for skyscrapers could be seen in a similar light; seeking the cold heights and outer darkness to escape the Fire, fearing it. Or maybe he just didn't want his house to smell like orc. Just sayin' 🤔
"Post-Morgoth metaphysics", "undocumented Maia" etc... as usual, we get some brilliantly worded gems.
"Can you explain that gap in your résumé, mister Sauron?"
Oh he can explain it. The question is whether you should believe it 😂
“It’s actually pronounced ‘Mairon’, people who hated me called me an ‘abomination’.”
"I took some time off to find myself."
I was in Yale.
Excellent! What did you say your name was?
Yohnny Yohnson.
8:29
Elves:"Morgoth has been defeated, evil will never return"
Jeff-Goldblum-Sauron: "Life, eh, finds a way"
Have you ever tried to get horror out of a shag carpet after a Dol Guldur party? Dark sorcery? More like orc slime and werewolf droppings everywhere. You'd think an all-powerful "dark lord" could at least house train his filthy underlings.
Sauron discovered weed and then went on a decades long descent into hard drug addiction, and then spent centuries trying to keep clean. Finally after a millennium of drug-induced highs and the misery of detox, Sauron had an epiphany: power would be his drug and the One Ring was perceived.
O yes, that and Sauron spent years listening to the death metal of Morgoth.
"Sauron was a good guy
He didn't need this shit
So he took a pill, with a Coca Cola
And he swallowed it"
He found the light of that grindset.
Don’t tell me - he ended up working in a surf shack on a beach in Goa ‘finding himself’?
One Ring to Eat with, One Ring to Pray with, One Ring to Love and in the Darkness Bind with.
Babe wake up Lexie just dropped another banger
Straight from the forges of... Aule, yes, definitely Aule, what other forges could it be from? 😅
I remember the shock I experienced when I first read the appendices and learned about Morgoth: "Wait-wait-wait---there was somebody worse than Sauron?? How can that be??"
Sauron is a case study of how means (re)shape the ends. Rotten heart, rotten means: rotten results, no matter the "good" intentions expressed. Sauron is the epitome of political cult leaders.
I really enjoyed this video! Thanks!
"Sad Dragon Noises." Is there such a sound?
I figured Gil-Galad, Galadriel, and Elrond basically had a "this is a little too good to be true" reaction because things felt off although they didn't know what it was. I don't think they suspected it was Sauron; I don't think the Elves realized it was Sauron behind all the evil that had been stirring in the east as well as the being behind the Annatar guise until Sauron first put one the One Ring.
Celebrimbor on the other hand, like quite a few before him, was far more interested in learning what he could learn and do than asking if it was really a good idea.
P.S. I miss "hey squad."
To be fair, we've grown from 'squad', blown past 'platoon', passing even 'company' (as appropriate as that was), probably in the area of 'battalion', and must be fast approaching 'brigade'.
I like that you bring out that Sauron was not ready for war when he forged the one ring. He might even have not expected it, feeling perhaps, that the peoples of middle earth would thank him. Thanks as ever GNG.
“His vision was always to improve the physical prosperity and orderliness of his subjects.”
- He had to destroy Eregion in order to save it.
(That’s a Boomer reference.)
GNG: "Kicking and screaming if necessary..."
Sauron: Well, if you're going to get TECHNICAL."
Btw, while I'm not sure that Numenor would have a Greco-Roman or Arab-Turkish motif, that image at 5:09 is disturbing (in cool way).
"Please, please, there's enough of me and my gifts for everyone...yes, EVERYONE..."
🤣 he can't bear to send a devotee away unsatisfied. Such a stand-up guy.
I also got heavy Mediterranean and Atlantean vibes from Numenorrean architecture.
I think the artist chose that orientalist style to convey a sense of decadence in Numenor rather than present it as some Near Eastern/Mediterranean civilization
I like how this is an indirect bash against the "Rings of Power" show.
I'm sure I have no idea what you could be referring to 🤣
Are you saying Sauron was never Halbrand?!!😱😱😱😱😆🤣😂
One of the things about these videos that fires my imagination is the excellent pictures and art that accompanies the narration.
Well, can't go to bed now. Maybe 38 minutes or so...
Brb, off on a quest to design a recipe worthy to be called Sauron's Crockpot of Moral Decadence.
Crockpot 😂
I’m impressed at the rate you’re able to put out these lengthy, well researched videos. Excellent work.
SHE'S POSTED!!!!!! SHE'S POSTED!!!!!! SHE'S POSTED!!!!!! SHE'S POSTED!!!!!! SHE'S POSTED!!!!!!
LIGHT THE BEACONS!!!
@@procrastinator99
Against Deneathor's wishes
Yes! More Sauron content! yes!
Sauron Supremacy 👁
now picturing Lexie doing the Onion's "sickos" meme, and what she's looking at is a household that have succumbed to the universal human craving to comb through the _History of Middle-earth_ series looking for tidbits that may illuminate gaps in the Tale of Years (of course this craving is universal. plus shut up)
Thanks Lexi!
Thanks Lexi! Always super interesting.
I have not seen a video by you in ages. Happy to one again.
I am such a greatful fan of your content. I always learn something new, thank you.
Absolutely the most detailed and best analysis I’ve seen of Sauron in the second age. Thanks as always Lexi 🧝♂️
It seems to me that Celebrimbor failed to see through "Anatar" because he carried the Fëanorian impulsivity and love of creating (magical) technology. When I think about the Fëanorians, I always hear the famous line from Juassic Park: "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Celebrimbor was so excited by the chance to learn a whole new magical craft that he was blind to the warning signs that other elven leaders saw almost immediately. He thought he would use the products of this craft to benefit all the elves of Middle Earth. But as the Doom of the Noldor decreed, "To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well".
I think there is perhaps something in that, but also in the fact of Celebrimbor's identity. He is the grandson of Fëanor. He probably did notice the vibes were off, he maybe even suspected that this person was a former servant of Morgoth. After all, a lot of people matching that description were kicking around. It might even have crossed his mind that that this Maia was the being people had known as Sauron. But Celebrimbor also needs to believe in the possibility of redemption, for himself and his family. So he needs to believe that a fallen Maia, perhaps even Sauron himself, could be redeemed. In other words, Celebrimbor might very well have suspected that Annatar was Sauron, but this wouldn't have put him off and made him suspicious. Rather, he would have believed that even Sauron deserves a chance to craft a better legacy for himself.
@@sophiejones3554, I like that! Our ideas actually work together well. Celebrimbor wants to believe in redemption *and* wants to learn this cool new tech, and motivated reasoning takes it from there.
Celebrimbor saw the destructiveness and evil of his parents and relatives, so he bent all his desire towards repairing Middle Earth. Sauron abused this desire.
And I thought that I was a Tolkien Nerd! Your research and conjecture are first class!
Absolutely amazing! Loved the Goldberry video too ❤. So grateful for your content.
You had me at "Hey guys..."
Ditto!
Currently the best Tolkien channel out there. Keep on the good work 👏
I can't wait for a video on Sauron's college years.
Thank you, lexi.
"Like a beaver tormented by the noise of rushing water..." Outstanding.
My biggest disappointment in M-E's story is the skipping of the War of Wrath. The sheer lack of details in a 40 year war bad enough that it destroyed a large chunk of the continent is so frustrating.
Methinks even Tolkien would falter at describing battles which leveled mountains and broke the land dow to its foundations.
@@blacksage2375 I'm sure he would have been up to it. Instead he doesn't even give us the arrival of the Valar's army. He really shortchanged us there and I have always wondered why considering his near obsessive writing about his imaginary world.
@@margaretalbrecht4650 Perhaps describing such a destructive conflict hit a little too close to home for his experiences?
Forget the War of Wrath. I wanna know about Lindon and Gil Galad. We know basically nothing about them despite Gil Galad ruling for 2000+ years and Lindon being able to keep Sauron away from the coasts.
Yay! A new video! 🙂
I know I always desired a bit more canon lore about Sauron and his actions before LoTR!
I absolutely enjoyed viewing your video essay as ever your work is enjoyable.
Well done as usual. Thankee kindly.
Sweet analysis. I've often wondered more about Sauron's past, his philosophy, etc. Interesting how on one hand, Sauron says he wants to bring prosperity to the world while taking the Black Eye as his symbol, raising monsters and despots everywhere he can. It is like in a weird way he has at least some good intentions, or perhaps that is just how he started out?
Good intentions don't mean 💩 unless you do the good that you intended to do.
I hope the Sauron Series will continue with the War of the Elves and Sauron and the Akkalbeth.
May god bless you and your work young lady next Gondor ❤❤❤❤ respect form Croatia-Europe ❤❤❤❤
Loved the beaver 🦫 analogy ❤
Ethereal choir singer, benevolent Advisor, blacksmith, vampire, werewolf, armoured knight, self igniting beholder.....even shipwreck survivor (😂non canon)...Sauron aka Cosplay Convention GrandMaster
another great vid
(18:00) I would actually love to see some stories of the elves, and interactions with early men, in this period. I sort of love the idea of these elves, gifted though they are, as still being relatively primal and "unrefined" as the later become. Imagine if early elves were closer to what we might consider them now; earth spirits. Talented no doubt, but still wild and part of the land. Only when they have exposure and time to settle to they evolve into the high culture we see in the early tales. Then maybe later there's a further evolution where they start a slow return to the early days with a steady -but mindful- degradation back to the earth (like Lothlorien).
Extraordinary explanation. Much love and blessings 💗 🙏
I always found it quite interesting that throughout the countless Millennia melkors overall goal went from destruction to domination. A very Sauron thing to do. I always wondered if perhaps the very persuasive nature and power of Sauron didn't passively rub off on his master 🤔
Thumbnail's giving some Big Smug vibes there, no wonder Galadriel told him to keep going.
look at the chin on him though! built like an anvil
Most Alpha Chad depiction I've seen of him. He's usually more etheral bordering on waifish pretty boy. He would absolutely have a men's self-help grindset guru cult these days. Maybe still does...
As always, great video. Is that a picture of your band? Are you the singer? The one who looks like Galadrielvis?
Galadrielelvis is Finrod Felagund, with GNG on drums. The others are Turin Turambar, Sauron, and Maglor.
Perfect timing. ( about to go to bed, early night),
Sweet dreams (hopefully not ones haunted by a glazed yellow Eye wreathed in flame)
@GirlNextGondor 😆 thank you , no eye . To report.
No, no, no! I need to get some work done and THIS appears in my feed! Oh well, take me away please. ^_^
A great and deep dive into the politics of the Second Age. I learned much, as I always do from your videos, Lexi. Keep them coming!
I love gng like Eowyn loves Aragorn
Saw this drop on my way home. Like fine wine I waited until I could give it my full attention.
The title isn't, by chance, a John Prine reference, is it?
Top notch analysis; thank you.
1. Yet another splendidly well-researched presentation which makes sense out of a confused and confusing period in the legendarium.
2. The early Second Age is a lot like the Migration Period in Europe (378-600 AD). Old states crumbling, whole peoples moving across the landscape, new states struggling to be born, few and fragmentary records. As a student of the Goths, the Anglo-Saxons, and the Norse, Tolkien would have been extensively familiar with that epoch in European history.
3. You have collected a lot of Tolkien art to illustrate your presentations and it adds a lot. As your selection demonstrates, a lot of Tolkien art is excellent. A few observations thereon:
a.) In my opinion, nobody has yet succeeded in drawing or painting credible orcs. Just draw a fugly humanoid and just call it an orc seems to be the usual method. Part of the artistic problem with orcs, though, may be related to the problem of depicting Elves (see below). According to the most credible theory in the legendarium, an orc is a ruined Elf. But there is no sense of lost grandeur, ruined promise, or corrupted beauty in the standard images of orcs.
b.) Does Tolkien say anywhere that his Elves have pointy ears? I read most of his stuff and can find nothing to suggest that they do. I suspect (but cannot now prove--would take work that I don't have time for) that what sets Elves apart in the legendarium is not an obvious visual clue like the shape of the ears or even their tallness and extreme handsomeness/beauty, but a "certain something," a combination of physical perfection and the way they bear themselves and comport themselves. An air, if you will. But that, of course, is hard for artists and filmmakers to capture, so they fall back on the pointy ears. It's easier.
c.) Much of the Tolkien art out there is clearly influenced by the Peter Jackson films, and not for the better. I am, among other things, a military historian, and so I know a little bit about armor. The armor in the Jackson movies and art influenced by the same is typically angular, with jagged edges and pointy bits sticking out all over the place. You know the kind of thing I mean. It all looks very punk and Dr. Evil and stuff. But the problem is that armor which is angular and has lots of pointy bits and bobs is also weaker, more brittle, and more vulnerable to penetration. Good, effective armor is actually smooth, well-rounded, and presents as few vertical and angled surfaces as possible. Look it up. This is a gripe of mine, and I am sorry to say that too many Tolkien artists follow the Jackson model and draw armor which would actually be useless in combat. Tolkien was a soldier, and he would spot this right away.
d.) As you seem to know, much of the finest current Tolkien art comes from Russia and the Russian-speaking part of the world. One of the finest Tolkien artists is someone from that area who is known online as Phobs. Her work (I think it's a her) is often influenced by the Jackson school and some of it also tilts towards Angbang (say no more), but it is good all the same.
With (b), unfortunately Tolkien DID imply that both Elves and hobbits have pointy ears. It was in a 1938 letter to his US publisher regarding illustrations. According to this Bilbo should have:
A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown).
-- Letter 27
Re your point (a): Y'know. . . Peter Jackson was attempting this "ruined beauty "with Saruman's Uruk-hai. Their bodies are powerfully and symmetrically built, and they are sure-footed and graceful while running. I found them scarier because they *weren't* scuttling and scampering like the goblins of Moria. Their pursuit along the banks of the Anduin was like watching tigers running down their prey.
I've tried imagining them in another setting, say, a science fiction tale where they are just a newly-introduced set of non-terrestrials. Absent the association with some great villain, and, of course, minus the growling and howling. . . seen maybe as a mix of wolf and tiger in the face. . . the Uruk-hai have a predatory grandeur. They could have been the Klingons of Middle-Earth?
We love Phobs!
Fool, thou maiden of Gondor! Hail Sauron! We his dark minions will gather all of your kind in a dark garage and make you organize our game collections!
The Aldarion slander was not necessary! He was busy helping Gil Galad and Erendis needs to learn there’s give and take in a relationship.
Sure he may have spent a lil too much time in Eriador checkin out the proto-butterbur’s brew but who can blame him?
Thanks for the vids! This one rocked as per usual!
Aldarion never should have married. He was the (lousiest)* husband and father in Númenórean history.
* Spelling edit.😅 Thanks Google.🤬
I'll give him this: possibly a less disastrous parent than Feanor.
(And Aldarion being awful, of course, does not preclude the possibility of Erendis being at least as bad!)
@@GirlNextGondor No one was a worse parent than Fëanor.
I mean ... I _like_ Aldarion, but it's pretty hard not to answer the question "Who can blame him?" with "His wife and daughter, both of whom he spent unnecessary decades neglecting, in the service of his boating hobby." Erendis definitely reacted with unproductive bitterness and spite; but Aldarion had given her a lot to be bitter and spiteful about -- and it isn't like he even deigned to tell her about the reasons he had for being abroad that _were_ actually more weighty than "but my boating hobby."
@@GirlNextGondordid Aldarion's actions directly lead to kin-slaying? Then yup, he clears the low, low bar of "not as bad as Fëanor" (Hallmark should open a new line of Father's Day cards)
Sauron wanted only order, a stable and just order that he believed would be good for all. This was his ideal. This would also be a proof of his repentance. Perhaps Sauron had foreseen that free will would always create conflict, and that this would lead to disorder. In this respect, Sauron can be described as good, but what he inherited was the Arda Marred, that is, the spiritual power (will) of Melkor that spread across Arda. I prefer to interpret this situation as follows: Sauron gained the ability to have control over the "Morgoth-element" phenomenon through his will, and perhaps this caused him to return to the bonds of Melkor that bound him, thus causing a recurrence of his fall.
Sparse, but juicy details.
I do wonder if the elves knew the personage from Mordor was the same Anatar. And i think at least Gil Galad must have known but I can't for the life if me understand why Gil Galad and Elrond didn't insist about him with the others. I mean if you're gonna find him so sus that you won't even let him enter your country, you'd probably have some stronger arguments than "he just feels sus", but clearly the arguments weren't made since "he feels sus" seems to have been Galadriel's only argument and not having anything else seems to be why she didn't do much about it. I can't help but feel she would have done more if she had better arguments...
I'm a simple guy, I see Sauron in the title I watch
What a fantastic video. Of all the channels on TH-cam, yours videos are by far the most in depth and informative.
Good work, for sure
"For a number of verisimilitudinerous reasons" 😂
So excellent indeed!
Im not sure; but I assume no one listened to Ulmo.
Whenever somebody gains such a deep knowledge of Tolkiens legendarium, it always makes me wonder how they feel about Peter Jackson’s original trilogy of movies. I found the more you learn about the text the less you tend to like the movies even if the movies were the thing that originally brought you in.
For me at least, the films have their own charm that doesn't compare to the pre-Third Age legendarium. I'm just in for the films' soundtrack, visuals, and character performances (especially the 'little moments' between the main characters). The rest of the legendarium doesn't really impact how I feel about the films, as in I don't feel more positively or negatively about them, rather I just appreciate more what a genius Tolkien is, being able to write characters and fictional metaphysics alike with equal skill
As some who first read LOTR decades before the movies came out, that's never been a problem for me. I love the movies even though there's quite a few changes in them that I think were mistakes.
"The Eye of Sauron was cool, but... in retrospect, it seems a little tacky?"
Hhmmm. I have the opposite response. I suspect, though, my opposite response is *because* I read the texts loooong before the movie releases. The texts are set firmly in my mind, and the movies can never completely disturb the reading experience.
IMO, what Peter Jackson got right he got so right that it overshadows what I think he didn't get right. For example, I can reduce my outrage about the "re-treatment" of Faramir and Denethor by focusing on the near-perfect casting, not to mention the gorgeous costuming, THE MUSIC and the scenery and settings. I literally gasped when the Fellowship swung around that bend in the river and we looked up at the Argonath. I re-experienced the moment when I first read that passage so long ago. I appreciated the "call-back."
In an odd way, my love for the books helps me give less weight to "imperfections" such as plot and character departures in the movies. I more or less just keep the two mediums separate in my head, then deeply appreciate the occasions when the movie "matches" the books.
I read LOTR decades before the movies and I have never before or since felt the same wonder and gratitude at being able to *see* something I had read and loved. They got a lot wrong but what they got right is an incredible gift for me.
Never made sense that they allowed Morgoths 2nd in command any freedom knowing what he had done. He should have been in chains along w his boss. Maybe sent to Mandos for awhile.
He surrendered, they said "OK come with us"
He does an Irish goodbye and they're like "Ah it'll be fine maybe he's being a good boy somewhere..."🙄
You don't have to interpret these snippets that way. Eönwe and his forces go to get Morgoth, and after the battle Sauron shows up on his own initiative. He may have been clapped in iron, but not expecting to find him, Eönwë doesn't have a ready-made chain like Angainor for the job, and Sauron gives them the slip. Once he's gone, hunting him down could be considered nigh-impossible as well as outside Eönwê's mandate.
Or Eönwë correctly sees that Sauron repents for the moment, and believes that for this repentance to last, Sauron must take the next step of his own volition. This would be an echo of Manwë letting Morgoth free, and be done and fail for much the same reasons.
Why the freak didn't the Tolkien estate hire you to write a pilot series, "What cookin' in the crockpot, honey" ...an epic dietary analysis of how to corrupt an entire continent (or two) starting out presenting beneficial plans. Among the ingredients are; Manflesh (tm) spider bite (24 hr relief) and spiced with affordable helpful gifts (that look so good on your hand).
More seriously, I wish they Had asked you to have some input avoiding a hot relative mess.
Who up conducting flamboyant experiments in post-Morgoth metaphysics?
Good work thanks
Is there fan art of a band of Eastern Orcs pointing and laughing at Sauron's pleasing form?
Him and Tom Bombadil were partying hard 🍻🥂
Don't mean to be sexist or anything else, other than its great to hear a woman talking about this subject as it's usually blokes. That's it don't want a big discussion. It just an opinion
Aldarion really abandoned his family for years only to fail to stop the rise of Sauron, SMH...
Anyone else think it's kinda funny that Sauron generally chose to be a redhead when he assumed humanoid form
Its just fan art
Sauron has many faults but gingerism is not one of them!
Thank 🐑!
Half of my brain is populated by never-written fanfiction set in the Second Age where party of Avari, Eastern Dwarves and Mannish refugees try to hunt some orcish chieftain/gather desperate help as remnants of Morgoth's army ravage the land. So many stories could happen, so many acts of bravery, so many lives lost - Elvish, Dwarven, Mannish, in those times we know so little.
Sauron the warewolf (but not like that)
Sauron the vampire (but not like that)
Sauron the necromancer (but not like that)
''He went to Tibet, India, Japan, and studied the eastern philosophy and ideas to preach it peacefully to the people of the west, but they rejected him harshly''
Wait where’s this from lmao
Sauron went on a bender and starred in Rings of Powers ;p
19:03 "Our" My Favorite renegade Maya is Osse.
Sauron lost weekend 😅
Sauron even got jailed for drunk driving.
No, wait! That was Justin Timberlake.🤪
Sauron (after the War of Wrath): Dude, Where's My Job?
Rad!
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
The period when Sauron's albums stopped selling and he spiraled into self-loathing and drugs....
He wrote Blind Guardian's Nightfall in Middle Earth
Ah yes, the advanced craft that Celebrimbor learned. Like... alloys.
Ahh those years at summer camp were great
He just needed time to find himself
Bro is grinding on his ''hot'' looks