I am probably more excited to cover this character than I have been since I did Morgoth and Feanor in the same video last year. Because I know people will be curious: for now I've made the call to avoid focusing on the Rings of Power series in my videos on this channel. *However!* I did upload an audio track about the show's depiction of Elrond, and some thoughts on the series generally, to my Patreon page. I made it public, so you don't have to pay anything or sign up to access it, you can just click the link and enjoy! www.patreon.com/posts/2-26-23-elrond-79245104 Please continue to be nice to each other in the comments! 🙏😌🙏
As soon as I start my new job in April, definitely gonna have to pay into your Patreon Lexi, man can't wait to hear the fullness of your thoughts on all of Tolkien's Legendarium!
Sorry to bother you about a completely unrelated topic, but I have been having a long debate with Joshua about his saying "Tolkien was a Catholic and a humanist." I took exception to him calling Tolkien a humanist. I tried to explain my Christian understanding of the word and he just said he was right to use it that way. I think of Tolkien as being very close to God. I don't understand how a word that actually refers to a Godless philosophy can be used to describe a devout Christian. I just want to know what your take on this is?
I just listened to your audio on Patreon (the first time I've ever been on a Patreon page). It was thoughtful and interesting, as always. Did I understand correctly that you watched RoP twice? Now, that's dedication. I only watched 35 minutes of it total (first episode, although I'd also downloaded a torrent for the second, which I promptly deleted), in two tries, then gave up in disgust. Much respect.
I thought of it more as a manipulation. He didn’t leave Bilbo an option but he did not force bilbo to do a thing. He even marked his house without permission
Elrond may have had to play the role of Thingol of the 3rd age, but unlike Thingol, Elrond actually wanted Aragorn to succeed despite the bitter parting that it would mean for him, personally. I greatly enjoy Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy and Hugo Weaving's portrayal of Elrond, but I always felt the movies failed to show just how selfless Elrond was for the betterment of all others.
It's subtle and you have to bring some outside awareness to fully get the emotional impact of it, but in the RotK scene where Arwen arrives in Minas Tirith, he's in the background, trying to smile but obviously fighting tears. You could read it as simply "aw, proud father moved by his daughter's wedding-slash-coronation" but when you know precisely what this moment means for him, it's a gut-punch.
@@GirlNextGondor Agreed! I'm one of those that really found Tolkien because of the movies - seeing them before reading my first page. That "proud father" bit is exactly what I took from the movie version on the initial watch. After reading LOTR (and much else, besides!), I realized just how much more there was to Elrond. And most other characters. Don't get me started on Faramir! :) I don't mean to knock the films, either; what they accomplished in ~9 hours of run time is pretty amazing, considering the breadth and depth of Tolkien's work.
I think his "rudeness" in the movies is realistic, as his (adopted) son and (bio) daughter are trying to marry each other. That probably feels way more messed up to him. They didn't grow up together, but they're just both his kids to him!
After the Dagorath, the First Stage of Sauron's repentance and healing is letting Elrond kick the crap out of him every day for three solid Valian weeks.
My feeling about Elrond's behaviour towards Aragorn and Arwen in PJ'S film seemed to me he was unsupportive of their relationship because he did not want to lose his daughter and never see her again. That was my interpretation of the film's decision.
@ecthelionofthefountain8267 you should read the books. Elrond doesn't actively oppose their union. He knows it will be a bitter loss for him, but he lets Arwen make her own choice.
The Dude-Lord Abides. I was watching the Lord of the Rings with a friend who had not read the books, and she asked me what was wrong with Elrond? She said something like, 'He looks like he's either trying to hold in a fart, or is depressed and lets his guard down when the camera isn't on him.' I told her that was a long story and ask how far down the nerd hole she wanted to go. I just told her that when we go out at night and spot Venus or the Morning Star, if you will; Elrond looks up at that same celestial body and thinks, Hi Dad. And, perhaps, once in awhile, his Dad says hi back.
🤣 I have often found myself having conversations with friends who aren't as far down the Tolkien rabbit hole as I am that boil down to, "Do you just want to know if there *is* a reason for this detail, or do you actually want to know *what* the reason is? Because we might be here a while...."
@@GirlNextGondor yeah, it's good to dive into what is different in various portrayals of the character, especially when people tend to find Jackson's movies faithful to the bone, and they are not THAT faithful to the source material(but they are still well made works of art with amazing costumes, music, acting and battles and more), to keep in mind how was the story told in the books by author himself, with all the possible meanings, symbolism and details your work Lexi is as always amazing and full of love to creative process of Tolkien himself
Middle earths top rated Air Bn B host, just love your quirky humour. This was as excellent as I have come to expect from you. I feel that Elrond is a very distant old elvish and otherworldly charecter, however at the same time he is the most human of the elves, as he factually is. full of wisdom experience and knowledge, but light of heart, he represents so wonderfully the human ability to rise above our persoanl tragedies and the tragedies of the world at large. Thanks GNG, keep up the good work.
The more I read the re-read the books the more i doubt that there is any sentence in them that is pointless. Elronds council is directly contrasted with Fëanors oath, I think. It is a binding oath for a monumental quest, with divine witnesses named, it involves a set number of people, and it causes catastrophe by existentially binding these people to their words. Elrond formulates the entire quest as voluntary because of the Noldor's folly. I also wondered why all of the elves in middle earth during lotr seem so nice and wise. Its because all the foolish prideful ones are dead, back in Aman, or sitting in the halls of mandos.
I do not read Elrond's backstory as a mismatch. From my experience, the kindest souls frequently have been the ones who have endured the most. True strength is finding the courage to be kind and welcoming even in a world which has took everything from you, and this is one of the forms of power that Sauron, with all his military might and sorcery and lust for control, will never realize.
Despite his lack of page time in LOTR, Elrond's influence across all of it is woven in deeply and is easier to see when you learn more of his history. Elrond was likely the greatest friend Men had amongst the Elves and no, I am not forgetting Finrod. The Kingdoms in Exile would have been lost without him. Elrond is there in so many of the major events of the 2nd and 3rd Ages that he was probably overall the most influential person in those ages. Despite basically being one of the Noldor, albeit with a very complicated ancestry, he lacks the negative traits that afflicted so many of his kinsmen. He, not surprisingly, seems to be the Elf most like Men. On the other hand, although we know little about them, he reminds me of the Vanyar. I've often wondered what led to him and Elros making different choices and if he ever might have visited Númenor.
Ok but technically he is not a “noldor” in the sense of coming from Valinor or with the rest of the noldor exhiles. He never was in Valinor. He is more Sindar in the sense of not seeing the light.
@@Mr713mexican The Noldor were the 2nd "tribe" of the Elves to awaken at Cuiviénen. They aren't defined by being Calaquendi as those included the Vanyar and the Teleri. Elrond wasn't a Calaquendi but his ancestry was partially Noldorin and he grew up and lived in places where most of the Elves were Noldor.
@@istari0 Elrond and Elros are descended from all three houses of the Elves and all three houses of the Edain, though not equal percentages of each. Calculating whether they are more Noldorin or Telerin, and more Beorian or Hadorian is beyond my mathematical skill. Their Maian, Vanyarian, and Halethian ancestry is small but not non-existent.
11:30 This was Bilbo‘s way of saying „If I hadn’t known I were speaking to him, I would now demand to see the manager!!!“ And this, the only four-star-rating was given to Rivendell
My personal least favorite change is Elrond’s manipulation of Arwen in The Two Towers. Such a huge contrast with his true character…. I love how you point out the inherent interest of his much better character with his tragic history.
Tolkien loved his characters who were orphaned at a young age. Elrond’s youth is traumatic. I could only imagine learning your care taker murdered most your kin and drove your parents into the sea to never return… and still “kind as summer” also loosing his beloved wife to sorrow is equally tragic. He’s an amazingly resilient fellow, which is very admirable. Thanks again. Love your work!
Your video makes so much more sense of Elrond than PJ movies. Elrond’s generosity towards men recalls his heritage & lasting love and honor of his father and brother and grandfather. It makes so much more sense than PJ or ROP.
It's crazy to think about how old and wise and experienced Elrond is yet he's actually very young when taken in context to the rest of the story. I wonder if his father ever took him out to sea when he was a child and if he ever got to explore the rest of the world like his father did.
Most timelines I've seen have him *very* young when Earendil sails off for the last time, but I'd like to think the family got a few sunny afternoons on the water. Later on, during the thousand or so years between the War of Wrath and Sauron showing back up, he lived in Lindon - I'd be very surprised if his dad's old friend Cirdan didn't teach him his way around a boat and make sure he got a few sabbaticals for exploring.
Elrond had the opportunity to witness a lot of bitterness up close from a young age. What little happiness still entered into Maglor's life likely came from his occasional kindness. And that kindness made a vast difference to Elrond and Elros. It makes a lot of sense that Elrond would deliberately choose kindness over bitterness, even knowing there is no escape from hardship in Arda Marred.
I don't think anyone who was at all close (emotionally or physically!) to late-stage Feanorians walks away from the experience thinking that pride, violence, and vengeance can lead to *anything* but misery. Elrond may be the most extreme example of this.
Hi, I am the sole writer for one of the largest LoTR channels here on TH-cam and your videos have been of great help with research, I'm working my way through the history of middle earth now, and you can really see the "ghosts" of former drafts haunting the pages of the published Silmarillion. I was writing about the debate on the oath of feanor and found your channel looking to see if anyone had done a serious video on it. It was very helpful and provided great insight for the script I was writing. Thanks for the work you do!
Thanks man! Glad you found it helpful. History of Middle-earth is dense for sure, but it's *so* helpful in getting an idea of how and why the stories evolved.
Recently found this channel and I have to say I’m super impressed with your analysis and work. I’m halfway through your whole channel. Really appreciate the hard work you put in for our enjoyment. It doesn’t go unnoticed
Your work on this channel represents the deepest and most insightful exploration of Tolkien’s characters that I’ve ever found. The effort displayed here to analyze and present a very ancient and complex character is carried out with not only a masterful grasp of the lore, but also a potent understanding of the nuisances of Elrond’s personality and essence. Thank you for your scholarship.
Once more an excellent analysis. Might I suggest a near-future comparison between Elrond and Thranduil, each has suffered enormous loss--but come out of it with very different attitudes.
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.” Love that one from Eternal E (his hip hop artist name) Keep up the great work Mellon! Ecthelion!
A great line 😄 I know it's Elrond being very wise and profound and all, but in context I tend to read it as the Middle-earth equivalent of "I honestly don't know why I'm surprised anymore. In fact, I'm not *even* surprised. Of course the hobbits have been casually hanging on to the Doom-ring for the past sixty years. Of *course*."
@@GirlNextGondor Elrond is that friend we all have that says " Oh yeah, I knew that. Where you been?" It's like why do I love you? Then they hit you with awesome adivce you think to yourself.." you brilliant bastard!" Keep up the great work. Your hard work shines. I thank you very much Fer it
i feel Elrond is the personification of wisdom and humbelness. He is an observer of the events of time but dosnt play the total passive role. But neither is a a forcefull ruler that put his will on others, as all wise leaders should be!
It was a humorous reference to controversies that bubbled up in the late 90s and early 2000s regarding the treatment and availability of some of Tolkien's late linguistic writings, coupled with disagreements over the legality and ethics of deriving new "Elvish" words and grammatical constructions for the film dialogue. I don't think anyone actually calls it the Great Neo-Sindarin Schism, and with the kinds of discussions we've been seeing lately, it looks pretty tame in comparison.
I'm so glad you decided to make this video, as I've personally never really been a fan any of Elrond's character adaptations (I haven't listened to your TRoP thoughts yet, but one of the few things I was pleasantly surprised about was that Elrond was given empathy, kindness, a sense of humour & the capacity to experience joy - even though I found his overall portrayal as a manipulative covert-agent of Lindon quite unsavoury). In fact, when I first saw FotR I half-expected Hugo Weaving to break into Roy Batty's "I've seen things..." Blade Runner monologue!
At 34:35 the phrase "on the one hand" is used. And...Maedhros is standing behind Elros and Elrond with his arm missing a hand toward us. Coincidence??? I think not. 😁
I made a joke comment about the new TV show before watching this. But this Video is so well done , i just had to post again . This was excellent 10/10 👨🍳's 😘 You Nailed it GNG .... NAILED .......IT 🔨
Brilliant as usual. Hugo weaving was a great match for Elrond and played him masterfully but the dramatic needs of the film caused his character to become almost antagonistic to men. That’s probably the part of the film that o like least and a good support for Christopher Tolkiens view that it would be wrong to translate the stories to film.
Thank you! I'm still wrestling with the conundrum that some changes seem to improve the quality of the *film,* but still create shifts in tone and theme that are subtle, but *pervasive.* I have deep affection for the early-aughts trilogy, so I can't bring myself to think they shouldn't *exist* - but I also understand C. T.'s reservations more as the years pass. Maybe it's not a question of it being *wrong* but *impossible* .
My biggest gripe with the movies is that pretty much all the characters are less than they are in the books. I understand Christopher's position but I'm still delighted we have the movies. I think it would have taken at least twice as much screen time to get everything from the books onto film. No one would have ever agreed to finance that and even then who knows how well it would have worked,
I remember a cartoon version of Elrond being a million years old with a goatee to make any dwarf jealous, telling everyone about "MOON-runes..." I didnt imagine that, did i?
Elrond could have become king of Elves, but he saw the fates of past kings and was like "oh hells naw." Probably sounded better in the high elven tongue.
"The best way to be the High King of the Noldor is to *not* be the High King of the Noldor. Remember that, Elros." "...I"m Elrond." "Do you honestly think I'm going to waste energy trying to tell you two eldritch horrors apart? I have Silmarils to reclaim, boy!" --deleted scene from the 1957 draft of "Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath"
I’m used to listen to these videos in a dream-like state, since the songs and voice itself are so relaxing... but I must say, the “tralalalalee” moments are great! It’s a perfect mixture of lore, delicacy and pure fun. I am a lover of history, and if history was taught this way we would all be relaxed nerds of the past. Btw, when the 1978 Elrond popped out, I couldn’t help but think “Tu quoque Bruto, fili mi”😅
I saw the thumbnail out of context and thought this was an intervention 😂😂😂 (I'm new to your TH-cam channel and its terminology) Though it brings to mind an idea, Elrond the healer rehabilitating those struggling with alcohol addiction somewhere in Imladris! ❤ Don't know of any other canonically addicting substance other than maybe orc drugs...
Such is this hour, that the very stars shine in joy! Bless you Lexi!! What a blessing this return is :) Had to leave a comment, before I'll have to catch up on the whole video
Thank you for sharing the recording with us! I'm always very interested in your thoughts, and honestly I probably trust your opinions more than anyone else's at this point seeing how honestly and thoroughly you're willing to dive to make your analyses and commentary the best they can be.
Heh, Middle Earth's top AirBnB host. Imagine Frodo's review. "Yeah, he got that Morgul shard out of my shoulder, but then I got roped into this world-saving quest that took months and nearly got me killed . . . 2/5 stars."
Elrond is the greatest elf in Middle Earth to have never seen the light of the Trees. In LOTR, he is also our gateway drug to the world of the elves, as he is the most highly respected and powerful elf who is not a deity trope like Galadriel or Glorfindel. He's relatable. I thought the casting of Elrond was perfect. Jackson had to strike a balance between portraying elves as eternally youthful, but also didn't want to alienate an unfortunately all too mortal audience by making Arwen''s dad look the same age as her. So he cast 40-year-old Hugo Weaving, who is simultaneously just old enough to believably be Liv Tyler's father but also a little too young, which still communicates the reality that elves do not age.
What a fantastic deep dive into who Elrond actually is! Wonderful work, Lexi. Just wish we could have more content. I see you are very close to 10K subs. I hope videos like this one will get those lethargic algorithms moving the traffic in your direction so that you can get twice the number of subs within a week or two after Tolkien Reading Day. Those days are critical for Tolkien channel subs to see what other Tolkien TH-camrs are out there.
He may be a side character who we take for granted but so much build-up has been put into Elrond, history and character exposition that he´s like several main characters worth elsewhere.
My thoughts *exactly*; it gets almost hilarious how much mileage you could get out of Elrond but he only ever appears for a handful of pages. Reading some of Tolkien's notes and letters I get the feeling he became a dumping-ground character. So many instances of "probably also Elrond" or "Elrond, naturally, would have been present" or "no one else (except maybe Elrond?)" but naturally the good Prof REFUSES to elaborate.
I wonder if Jackson could have avoided Elrond's Thingolification by just giving the "over-protective parent who wants Arwen to leave Aragorn" role to Galadriel, as Arwen's grandmother. Galadriel fits that characterization of "stern, stereotypically-elvish, not too friendly toward humans" way better. "Whether by the sword or the slow decay of time, Aragorn will die, and there will be no comfort for you." That's Aegnor's sister right there!
Were the text to this video offered I would so order a signed copy at my local independent bookstore. Also thanks for not commenting on the Bezos series to date. Anyway, years ago, after seeing the Ranklin Bass depiction of Elrond 21:44 I was really freaked out when our food co-op hired a new manager I swear looked like a shaved human version of that Elrond. He even walked ethereal. He moved with cat like ease or the way I'd imagine a martial artist might, grounded and light on his feet at the same time. Some 20 years older and a retired navy officer/lawyer in his early 40's he had amazing customer service skills interpreting and resolving customer concerns to the degree our co-op financially stabilized while he was there. Elrond in your video was far deeper than I'd given much conscious thought to. He could have been such a tragic character. Instead he consciously chose to "freak out" the expectations of how a normal person might react with grace that was not weak or meek. Actually, he was more inspiration than I expected.
4:40 Wowowow.... wow. Hold on. That pointy-ear man uniquely represents... A Link to the Past? Hm, I think we have seen more of Elrond heroics than we realize. Man just been bleeching his hair, popping his spirit into another dimension to find and save his princess in another castle all along!
Found the channel a few days ago and you're probably my new favorite Tolkien youtuber. Your voice is really relaxing and the videos are really well produced for a small channel. Keep it up!
Elrond's kind of like certain character actors; the mentor in his case, I'd say. Ubiquitous, but never quite in the spotlight. My mother was absolutely enthralled by Jackson's version of Rivendell, much to her 22yo's amusement. Hooray for being this close to 10,000 subscribers!
Wow! I nominate GNG as the next JRR Tolkien Chair of MiddleEarthStudies at, ideally, Oxford... I learn so much from you, and the subtlety of your analysis is enhanced with the eye-candy artwork you select for us. Thanx so much!!!
Well,@@GirlNextGondor, you've got the vote of this retired cultural anthro prof, for whatever it's worth (prob not much). I think your analyses are both entertaining&profound.
They did your boi dirty in the adaptations for sure. But what they did to poor Faramir is on another level . Insightful video , keep up the good work 😄
I've always hoped that Elrond and Faramir got to hang out in Minas Tirith after Aragorn's coronation. This would be one more thing they could bond over.
Since one of Tolkien’s fundamental influences was northern mythology and culture, the exhibition of Elrond’s courtesy to all is completely understandable.
Not exactly related to the theme of this video but it would have been a hoot if the LOTR movie had done a spoof scene with Hugo Weaving as Elrond, but with the dark glasses and earpiece from his Agent Smith role. "As you can see, we've had our eye on you now for a long time, Mr. Baggns...". That would have been a great extra for the DVD.
He does get to make the decisions since it all is curated (moderated) by him as the host of the council that included the noblest of each people in Middle Earth.
I've always wondered why Elrond didn't succeed Gil-Galad after his fall. He was, after all, Gil-Galad's closest male kinsman, hence his role as the King's herald. His lineage itself, as descendant of both the Kings of Doriath (through Elwing) and Gondolin (through Idril), made him the ideal candidate. But perhaps it was offered/considered but ultimately rejected by Elrond himself. I do not recall ever coming across any reference to this; but then again, I do not own the 'Letters' book, so perhaps it was alluded in that. What's your take on this GNG?
I would have to double check the sources myself but I would say a main reason is there just aren't enough Noldor left to be king of. The Sindo-silvan contingent is certainly not going to let Elrond rule them at this point, Cirdan is manning what's left of Lindon, and if most of the remaining non-itinerant Calaquendi are already at least part-time inhabitants of Imladris, then Lord of Rivendell really is the highest political position left. The same thing happens in Arnor when the "last king" dies; his son continues the line, but under the title of Chieftains.
Perhaps interestingly, before Gil-galad was invented, after the defeat of Morgoth in the War of Wrath: "...but Elrond Half-elfin remained and ruled in the West of the world." (HoMe IV)
Excellent analysis of Elronds character. I love Jackson's films, but some of the characters in them deviate wildly from the books, and apart from Isildur and Denethor, none more so than Elrond. There seems no real acknowledgment that Elrond was 'Elrond the Half-Elven', and that he was a brother to Elros, the direct ancestor of Aragorn. Instead, he was dismissive of the whole race of men because of the choice of Isildur not to destroy the Ring once he took it from Sauron, something everyone in the books and movies says would be practically impossible for someone to do willingly once they possess it. Gandalf for example won't even touch it. I also noticed you ignored completely the Elrond from 'Rings of Power'. Unfortunately, I think character depictions from the amazon series will colour how many people perceive Tolkien's characters as much as previous depictions.
Elrond: Middle Earth's Dad. 😂 I think instead of RoP, Amazon should have written a comedy drama in Rivendell, where Elrond and Glorfindel are constantly trying to rein in the resident troublemakers while taking care of their current guest(s). (Sometimes, Glorfindel *is* one of the troublemakers.) Seriously though, I think your analysis of Elrond's character is great and look forward to more videos!
The three most wisest and soundest elves on Middle Earth during the events of LOTR would be: 1. Cirdan 2. Elrond 3. Galadriel I would trust Elrond above Galadriel as Galadriel still secretly desires power, land and the One Ring. But Cirdan I would trust the most as his temptation is to finally enter Valinor- and this he has resisted for 10000 years plus. And of all the Elves of Middle he is the most faithful to the Valar and Eru Illuvatar.
good to see another rehab video, im disappointed the early ones are no longer available ive always thought they were your best work. plse upload again. thx
After Frodo recovered in Rivendale he asked Sam about what he now thought of elves since he had time to get to know some. Sam’s response was to say that, “there are elves and there are elves.” He went on to explain that not all elves are the same which, if you take the time to read or listen to the actual LOTR book and some of Tolkien’s other works most people would realize. There are dark elves and there are high elves and a few other species of elves that vary in their characteristics. You would never find that out by simply watching the movies which may be fine examples of Hollywood magic are simply not Tolkien. Jackson used the names of Tolkien’s characters and the names of the places in the book but he changed almost everything about the people and the story itself. Personally, I cannot watch the trilogy. What they did to the character of those heroes is just too heartbreaking. Jackson obviously enjoyed making LOTR into a monster movie. Although there were definitely monsters in the story they did not take up the amount of time and expense that was used in that movie.
The difference between Thingol and Elrond, Elrond wanted Aragorn to succeed whereas Thingol definitely did not want Beren to do so. Elrond raised, trained and in every way supported Aragorn's path to Kinghood of all of Arnor and Gondor. God Bless Christopher Tolkien! Directly? Indirectly? A huge influence on my life. Boromir, Beren, Thorin...the most tragic /horrifying story ever... Again. God Bless Christopher Tolkien. Fuck Simon!
Lexi put a post that suspiciously looks like a response to your post. I couldn't copy and paste it here on my phone but I took a screen shot of it and I will try to type verbatim what she posted: GirlNextGondor. 2 days ago. It was a humorous reference to a controversy that bubbled up in the late 90's and early 2000's regarding the treatment and availability of some of Tolkien's late linguistic writings, coupled with disagreements over the legality and ethics of deriving new "Elvish" words and grammatical constructions for the film dialogue. I don't think anyone actually calls it the Great Neo-Sindarin Schism, and with the kinds of discussions we've been seeing lately, it looks pretty tame in comparison. That was the comment I found. when I went back to search for it. It was gone, so maybe Lexi will be mad at me for posting it here😅
The hints that Elrond and Isildur worked particularly closely during the Last Alliance is another little-observed tidbit that really makes things spicy; it actually fits *very* well with the New Line Elrond's characterization. It's one thing to be let down by a random ally, but it *really* stings if the guy who's letting evil survive and dooming everyone is someone you thought you could rely on.
I think the Roman visual cue is telling, but I was surprised not to hear about the Amazon prequel adaptation of the appendices, where Elrond is more nakedly upstart ambitious as a diplomat but also disappointed with his own manipulative elven king. Both he and Galadriel are ambitious but also painfully learning about the dark side of attempting to manipulate or dominate their way to power. On the other hand, their contempt for a hands-off, insular elf rule is plain. They are both hyper-vigilant in their almost obsessive search for the return of the evil deceiver, and at least in their youth served as war generals. As a student of history, I see this as a recurring theme about British kingship, in the relationship of Merlin and Arthur (possibly a Roman-inspired figure), in Alfred the Great and Queen Elizabeth I and their sage war counsels. All of these had to restore old or lost kingly claims without the disaster of too greedily usurping power through violence or conquest, and all of them failed to keep their own hands clean of bloodlust and desperate gambles with their subjects lives and will. Elrond made his power through consistent neutrality and humility, and personal relationships with all and sundry, so I find that one of Tolkien's innovations or evolutions of the Merlin type, the only lord to model a sort of universal fraternity of beings, the sort of politics Treebeard complained was missing. In fact, I find it odd that Treebeard doesn't bring Elrond up as an acquaintance, given his familiarity with the wizards on the council. I can only conclude Treebeard is too bitter to acknowledge any exception to a general lack of unity among the various creatures, or that he is too burnt or cynical about those who pretended to offer that but turned out to be tree-killers.
For me I think the real issue has less to do with HW aging and more to do with all his Elven peers like Orly and Cate, formerly baby faced and now looking rather more mature.
Even in the novels there's so many neat things that aren't fully explored. I'm torn between thinking someone should really write/film/draw an Elrond-centric spin-off, and thinking the mysterious hints and 'unexplored vistas' might actually be the most valuable parts of his character.
Hugo Weaving did a great job as Elrond within the scope of the films, but I think his deep voice and stony demeanor would have been better suited for playing Sauron. You know, had the films chosen to depict Sauron as a person rather than a literal Giant Eye. As for who could have played Elrond in Hugo's stead, I actually think Christoph Waltz would have been perfect. For anyone who doesn't know the name, you might recognize Christoph Waltz from Inglorious Basterds or Django Unchained. He would need to be given long, black hair of course, and would have to change his natural German accent, but he's good with accents. And his face has the kind of approachable kindness needed to portray Elrond while still having the kind of sternness that conveys strength and experience.
I'd never considered Weaving as Sauron but I have to say I like the idea. He'd have to bring more of a flamboyant edge, but he's got plenty of other roles that show he could pull that off. For looks alone, I recently decided a young Pierce Brosnan isn't a bad model.
The movies seem to have Elrond borrowing some of Elu Thingol's character traits re distrust of mortals and his behavior in trying to protect his daughter. Its not nearly as extreme as Thingol, though, or he'd have been banning mortals from Rivendell, locking Arwen in a tree and getting into fatal fights with dwarves over shiny objects. Actually, in some ways he reminds me of Finrod Felagund, if a bit less likely to go charging off on the quest himself. But then Elrond is a lot older than Finrod was during the Silmarillion, and didn't get trapped by a concatenating series of oaths. And I can certainly empathize with Elrond's probable Oath-allergy. Growing up in the shadow of the worst of the Oath of Feanor would be enough to put Elrond off them forever. I actually think reading the Silmarillion had the side effect of making me take oaths and promises more seriously than most, and all I did was read the book, not live through it getting raised by the Oathbound Kinslayers who had killed or driven off most of Elrond's closest relatives.
And she's baaaaaaaaaaaack!!!! TheAnd she's baaaaaaaaaaaack!!!! The Queen of Gondor-I mean the GirlNextGondor, anyways really enjoyed this video and will probably expand my post into a proper one. Anyways, Elrond is one of those characters who is a very intense one, and a very important one in the novels with the movies hardly doing him justice to my mind. Queen of Gondor-I mean the GirlNextGondor, anyways really enjoyed this video and will probably expand my post into a proper one. Anyways, Elrond is one of those characters who is a very intense one, and a very important one in the novels with the movies hardly doing him justice to my mind. I found him too stern and bitter and distant, whereas in the books he's warm, wise and easygoing so that movie Elrond is too much of a departure for my taste. That said, I understand people adore that version so I'll limit my criticism here.
13:11 ... fuck me I would be a bitter hateful bastard... I've read every word and that summary of Elrond's life hurt me in my groin and made me nauseas
Showing a warmer and caring side of Elrond outside of the context of healing Frodo or love for Arwen, is one of the very few things Rings of Power did halfway well that the movie trilogy sort of glazed over.
Elrond is part of the White Council. And there IS an apparent uneventful side quest to deal with the Necromancer....and I say uneventful because it was left out from the story with only a mention. It might have been SOMETHING...and left unmentionable because of something kept secret....but I think not. It DEFINITELY wasn't anything close to what we got in the movie. I LOVED the scene...on it's own...but it was eye candy at the cost of story contuity and logic.
I, too, experienced a bifurcation while watching that scene. One side of my brain is critically evaluating the impact on structure, theme, verisimilitude, etc. The other side is screaming with joy at getting to watch Elf-lords duelling Nazgul.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 82 วันนี้!! คู่เอก | ยอดไอคิว vs อับดัลลาห์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hSsyTl_9bqs/mqdefault.jpg)
I am probably more excited to cover this character than I have been since I did Morgoth and Feanor in the same video last year.
Because I know people will be curious: for now I've made the call to avoid focusing on the Rings of Power series in my videos on this channel.
*However!* I did upload an audio track about the show's depiction of Elrond, and some thoughts on the series generally, to my Patreon page. I made it public, so you don't have to pay anything or sign up to access it, you can just click the link and enjoy! www.patreon.com/posts/2-26-23-elrond-79245104
Please continue to be nice to each other in the comments! 🙏😌🙏
As soon as I start my new job in April, definitely gonna have to pay into your Patreon Lexi, man can't wait to hear the fullness of your thoughts on all of Tolkien's Legendarium!
Can you be nice about pointy eared princlings if youre a dwarf? lol
Sorry to bother you about a completely unrelated topic, but I have been having a long debate with Joshua about his saying "Tolkien was a Catholic and a humanist." I took exception to him calling Tolkien a humanist. I tried to explain my Christian understanding of the word and he just said he was right to use it that way. I think of Tolkien as being very close to God. I don't understand how a word that actually refers to a Godless philosophy can be used to describe a devout Christian. I just want to know what your take on this is?
Really hate ROP.
I just listened to your audio on Patreon (the first time I've ever been on a Patreon page). It was thoughtful and interesting, as always. Did I understand correctly that you watched RoP twice? Now, that's dedication. I only watched 35 minutes of it total (first episode, although I'd also downloaded a torrent for the second, which I promptly deleted), in two tries, then gave up in disgust. Much respect.
Gandalf reluctant to influence the decisions of others? He practically dragged Bilbo out of his house. 😅
If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, he was barely involved.
He simply gave him a little nudge out of the door.
Actually, the more powerful the individual, the less he pushes.
I suppose it depends on your particular definition of influence 😏
I thought of it more as a manipulation. He didn’t leave Bilbo an option but he did not force bilbo to do a thing. He even marked his house without permission
Elrond may have had to play the role of Thingol of the 3rd age, but unlike Thingol, Elrond actually wanted Aragorn to succeed despite the bitter parting that it would mean for him, personally. I greatly enjoy Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy and Hugo Weaving's portrayal of Elrond, but I always felt the movies failed to show just how selfless Elrond was for the betterment of all others.
It's subtle and you have to bring some outside awareness to fully get the emotional impact of it, but in the RotK scene where Arwen arrives in Minas Tirith, he's in the background, trying to smile but obviously fighting tears. You could read it as simply "aw, proud father moved by his daughter's wedding-slash-coronation" but when you know precisely what this moment means for him, it's a gut-punch.
@@GirlNextGondor Agreed! I'm one of those that really found Tolkien because of the movies - seeing them before reading my first page. That "proud father" bit is exactly what I took from the movie version on the initial watch. After reading LOTR (and much else, besides!), I realized just how much more there was to Elrond. And most other characters. Don't get me started on Faramir! :) I don't mean to knock the films, either; what they accomplished in ~9 hours of run time is pretty amazing, considering the breadth and depth of Tolkien's work.
@@missingnola3823a😊😊aa
@@GirlNextGondor he was watching the wedding/crowning of his foster son and his daughter.
I think his "rudeness" in the movies is realistic, as his (adopted) son and (bio) daughter are trying to marry each other. That probably feels way more messed up to him. They didn't grow up together, but they're just both his kids to him!
I never knew I needed the mental image of Elrond suplexing Sauron, or that I'd be so disappointed that it doesn't exist
After the Dagorath, the First Stage of Sauron's repentance and healing is letting Elrond kick the crap out of him every day for three solid Valian weeks.
My feeling about Elrond's behaviour towards Aragorn and Arwen in PJ'S film seemed to me he was unsupportive of their relationship because he did not want to lose his daughter and never see her again. That was my interpretation of the film's decision.
Well, he didn't want her to DIE.
@ecthelionofthefountain8267 you should read the books. Elrond doesn't actively oppose their union. He knows it will be a bitter loss for him, but he lets Arwen make her own choice.
The Dude-Lord Abides.
I was watching the Lord of the Rings with a friend who had not read the books, and she asked me what was wrong with Elrond? She said something like, 'He looks like he's either trying to hold in a fart, or is depressed and lets his guard down when the camera isn't on him.'
I told her that was a long story and ask how far down the nerd hole she wanted to go. I just told her that when we go out at night and spot Venus or the Morning Star, if you will; Elrond looks up at that same celestial body and thinks, Hi Dad. And, perhaps, once in awhile, his Dad says hi back.
🤣 I have often found myself having conversations with friends who aren't as far down the Tolkien rabbit hole as I am that boil down to, "Do you just want to know if there *is* a reason for this detail, or do you actually want to know *what* the reason is? Because we might be here a while...."
Elrond: "My dad turned into a star."
Gandalf: "That's rough, buddy."
The fart theory seems particularly profound. It goes to his very fundament.
I really love Hugo's Elrond - we may like it or not, but his performance is quite iconic
Absolutely iconic - I see the differences between the character from the books and the one Hugo Weaving plays, but I love them both!
@@GirlNextGondor yeah, it's good to dive into what is different in various portrayals of the character, especially when people tend to find Jackson's movies faithful to the bone, and they are not THAT faithful to the source material(but they are still well made works of art with amazing costumes, music, acting and battles and more), to keep in mind how was the story told in the books by author himself, with all the possible meanings, symbolism and details
your work Lexi is as always amazing and full of love to creative process of Tolkien himself
The best part of his performance in the movies for me is during the council, when he looks at the ring, then at Froddo, and says 'It is Morbin' time!
Weaving seems too stern and grumpy to me. His central role as magnanimous host is a little lost.
Hugo did an excellent job with the material he was given. It’s Peter Jackson’s writer that some Tolkien fans take issue with.
Look no further than Isildur and the Men of Dunharrow, and you will understand Elrond's aversion against binding oaths. Stellar video, as always! 👍
Elrond's "NO OATHS" policy is comparable to Edna Mode's "NO CAPES"
Or the Oath of Feanor.
@@GirlNextGondor between distant uncles(maedhros&maglor) and distant nephews (Isildur), NO OATHS is a believable mantra for Elrond
@@dayofayanju9021distant? They raised him! Biologically distant maybe
Middle earths top rated Air Bn B host, just love your quirky humour. This was as excellent as I have come to expect from you. I feel that Elrond is a very distant old elvish and otherworldly charecter, however at the same time he is the most human of the elves, as he factually is. full of wisdom experience and knowledge, but light of heart, he represents so wonderfully the human ability to rise above our persoanl tragedies and the tragedies of the world at large. Thanks GNG, keep up the good work.
The more I read the re-read the books the more i doubt that there is any sentence in them that is pointless. Elronds council is directly contrasted with Fëanors oath, I think. It is a binding oath for a monumental quest, with divine witnesses named, it involves a set number of people, and it causes catastrophe by existentially binding these people to their words. Elrond formulates the entire quest as voluntary because of the Noldor's folly.
I also wondered why all of the elves in middle earth during lotr seem so nice and wise. Its because all the foolish prideful ones are dead, back in Aman, or sitting in the halls of mandos.
I do not read Elrond's backstory as a mismatch. From my experience, the kindest souls frequently have been the ones who have endured the most. True strength is finding the courage to be kind and welcoming even in a world which has took everything from you, and this is one of the forms of power that Sauron, with all his military might and sorcery and lust for control, will never realize.
Despite his lack of page time in LOTR, Elrond's influence across all of it is woven in deeply and is easier to see when you learn more of his history. Elrond was likely the greatest friend Men had amongst the Elves and no, I am not forgetting Finrod. The Kingdoms in Exile would have been lost without him. Elrond is there in so many of the major events of the 2nd and 3rd Ages that he was probably overall the most influential person in those ages.
Despite basically being one of the Noldor, albeit with a very complicated ancestry, he lacks the negative traits that afflicted so many of his kinsmen. He, not surprisingly, seems to be the Elf most like Men. On the other hand, although we know little about them, he reminds me of the Vanyar.
I've often wondered what led to him and Elros making different choices and if he ever might have visited Númenor.
Elrond is what we get when one of the house of Finwe actually pays attention and learns from the past 🤣
Ok but technically he is not a “noldor” in the sense of coming from Valinor or with the rest of the noldor exhiles. He never was in Valinor. He is more Sindar in the sense of not seeing the light.
@@Mr713mexican The Noldor were the 2nd "tribe" of the Elves to awaken at Cuiviénen. They aren't defined by being Calaquendi as those included the Vanyar and the Teleri. Elrond wasn't a Calaquendi but his ancestry was partially Noldorin and he grew up and lived in places where most of the Elves were Noldor.
@@istari0 Elrond and Elros are descended from all three houses of the Elves and all three houses of the Edain, though not equal percentages of each. Calculating whether they are more Noldorin or Telerin, and more Beorian or Hadorian is beyond my mathematical skill. Their Maian, Vanyarian, and Halethian ancestry is small but not non-existent.
11:30 This was Bilbo‘s way of saying „If I hadn’t known I were speaking to him, I would now demand to see the manager!!!“
And this, the only four-star-rating was given to Rivendell
My personal least favorite change is Elrond’s manipulation of Arwen in The Two Towers. Such a huge contrast with his true character…. I love how you point out the inherent interest of his much better character with his tragic history.
Tolkien loved his characters who were orphaned at a young age. Elrond’s youth is traumatic. I could only imagine learning your care taker murdered most your kin and drove your parents into the sea to never return… and still “kind as summer” also loosing his beloved wife to sorrow is equally tragic. He’s an amazingly resilient fellow, which is very admirable. Thanks again. Love your work!
Your video makes so much more sense of Elrond than PJ movies. Elrond’s generosity towards men recalls his heritage & lasting love and honor of his father and brother and grandfather. It makes so much more sense than PJ or ROP.
It's crazy to think about how old and wise and experienced Elrond is yet he's actually very young when taken in context to the rest of the story. I wonder if his father ever took him out to sea when he was a child and if he ever got to explore the rest of the world like his father did.
Most timelines I've seen have him *very* young when Earendil sails off for the last time, but I'd like to think the family got a few sunny afternoons on the water. Later on, during the thousand or so years between the War of Wrath and Sauron showing back up, he lived in Lindon - I'd be very surprised if his dad's old friend Cirdan didn't teach him his way around a boat and make sure he got a few sabbaticals for exploring.
Elrond had the opportunity to witness a lot of bitterness up close from a young age. What little happiness still entered into Maglor's life likely came from his occasional kindness. And that kindness made a vast difference to Elrond and Elros. It makes a lot of sense that Elrond would deliberately choose kindness over bitterness, even knowing there is no escape from hardship in Arda Marred.
I don't think anyone who was at all close (emotionally or physically!) to late-stage Feanorians walks away from the experience thinking that pride, violence, and vengeance can lead to *anything* but misery. Elrond may be the most extreme example of this.
I gasped when I saw it. Been so excited for this one. I’m ready.
It was a long process but totally worth it. Half-elven Supremacy ftw 💖
Hi,
I am the sole writer for one of the largest LoTR channels here on TH-cam and your videos have been of great help with research, I'm working my way through the history of middle earth now, and you can really see the "ghosts" of former drafts haunting the pages of the published Silmarillion. I was writing about the debate on the oath of feanor and found your channel looking to see if anyone had done a serious video on it. It was very helpful and provided great insight for the script I was writing. Thanks for the work you do!
Thanks man! Glad you found it helpful.
History of Middle-earth is dense for sure, but it's *so* helpful in getting an idea of how and why the stories evolved.
Recently found this channel and I have to say I’m super impressed with your analysis and work. I’m halfway through your whole channel. Really appreciate the hard work you put in for our enjoyment. It doesn’t go unnoticed
Thank you! Glad you're enjoying it!
Your work on this channel represents the deepest and most insightful exploration of Tolkien’s characters that I’ve ever found. The effort displayed here to analyze and present a very ancient and complex character is carried out with not only a masterful grasp of the lore, but also a potent understanding of the nuisances of Elrond’s personality and essence. Thank you for your scholarship.
Once more an excellent analysis. Might I suggest a near-future comparison between Elrond and Thranduil, each has suffered enormous loss--but come out of it with very different attitudes.
That would be a good one, and a great chance to look at the political differences between Elven realms!
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.”
Love that one from Eternal E (his hip hop artist name)
Keep up the great work Mellon! Ecthelion!
A great line 😄 I know it's Elrond being very wise and profound and all, but in context I tend to read it as the Middle-earth equivalent of "I honestly don't know why I'm surprised anymore. In fact, I'm not *even* surprised. Of course the hobbits have been casually hanging on to the Doom-ring for the past sixty years. Of *course*."
@@GirlNextGondor Elrond is that friend we all have that says " Oh yeah, I knew that. Where you been?" It's like why do I love you? Then they hit you with awesome adivce you think to yourself.." you brilliant bastard!"
Keep up the great work. Your hard work shines. I thank you very much Fer it
This is a wonderfully exposition of Elrond's character and its portrayal in adaptations. I thoroughly enjoyed this.
So glad you liked it!
i feel Elrond is the personification of wisdom and humbelness. He is an observer of the events of time but dosnt play the total passive role. But neither is a a forcefull ruler that put his will on others, as all wise leaders should be!
It was a humorous reference to controversies that bubbled up in the late 90s and early 2000s regarding the treatment and availability of some of Tolkien's late linguistic writings, coupled with disagreements over the legality and ethics of deriving new "Elvish" words and grammatical constructions for the film dialogue. I don't think anyone actually calls it the Great Neo-Sindarin Schism, and with the kinds of discussions we've been seeing lately, it looks pretty tame in comparison.
This weekend just got better 👍🏼
💖
I'm so glad you decided to make this video, as I've personally never really been a fan any of Elrond's character adaptations (I haven't listened to your TRoP thoughts yet, but one of the few things I was pleasantly surprised about was that Elrond was given empathy, kindness, a sense of humour & the capacity to experience joy - even though I found his overall portrayal as a manipulative covert-agent of Lindon quite unsavoury). In fact, when I first saw FotR I half-expected Hugo Weaving to break into Roy Batty's "I've seen things..." Blade Runner monologue!
At 34:35 the phrase "on the one hand" is used. And...Maedhros is standing behind Elros and Elrond with his arm missing a hand toward us. Coincidence??? I think not. 😁
I made a joke comment about the new TV show before watching this. But this Video is so well done , i just had to post again . This was excellent 10/10 👨🍳's 😘
You Nailed it GNG .... NAILED .......IT 🔨
Brilliant as usual. Hugo weaving was a great match for Elrond and played him masterfully but the dramatic needs of the film caused his character to become almost antagonistic to men. That’s probably the part of the film that o like least and a good support for Christopher Tolkiens view that it would be wrong to translate the stories to film.
Thank you!
I'm still wrestling with the conundrum that some changes seem to improve the quality of the *film,* but still create shifts in tone and theme that are subtle, but *pervasive.* I have deep affection for the early-aughts trilogy, so I can't bring myself to think they shouldn't *exist* - but I also understand C. T.'s reservations more as the years pass. Maybe it's not a question of it being *wrong* but *impossible* .
My biggest gripe with the movies is that pretty much all the characters are less than they are in the books. I understand Christopher's position but I'm still delighted we have the movies. I think it would have taken at least twice as much screen time to get everything from the books onto film. No one would have ever agreed to finance that and even then who knows how well it would have worked,
@@istari0
Great points.
Haha, my eyes are getting so bad that I that the thumbnail read "ELROND KEBAB" at first. 😆
All kidding aside, great content and channel GNG!
I remember a cartoon version of Elrond being a million years old with a goatee to make any dwarf jealous, telling everyone about "MOON-runes..."
I didnt imagine that, did i?
I've been looking forward to a character rehab about elrond do so long!!!
Elrond could have become king of Elves, but he saw the fates of past kings and was like "oh hells naw." Probably sounded better in the high elven tongue.
"A fatanyu lau"? *shrug*
"The best way to be the High King of the Noldor is to *not* be the High King of the Noldor. Remember that, Elros."
"...I"m Elrond."
"Do you honestly think I'm going to waste energy trying to tell you two eldritch horrors apart? I have Silmarils to reclaim, boy!"
--deleted scene from the 1957 draft of "Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath"
@@GirlNextGondor 🤣
I’m used to listen to these videos in a dream-like state, since the songs and voice itself are so relaxing... but I must say, the “tralalalalee” moments are great! It’s a perfect mixture of lore, delicacy and pure fun. I am a lover of history, and if history was taught this way we would all be relaxed nerds of the past.
Btw, when the 1978 Elrond popped out, I couldn’t help but think “Tu quoque Bruto, fili mi”😅
I saw the thumbnail out of context and thought this was an intervention 😂😂😂 (I'm new to your TH-cam channel and its terminology)
Though it brings to mind an idea, Elrond the healer rehabilitating those struggling with alcohol addiction somewhere in Imladris! ❤ Don't know of any other canonically addicting substance other than maybe orc drugs...
Great video! Elrond is the real MVP! Also, I love your credits artwork with Maedhros in utter distress at the burning of the ships. 😂
Such is this hour, that the very stars shine in joy!
Bless you Lexi!! What a blessing this return is :) Had to leave a comment, before I'll have to catch up on the whole video
Thank you dear Squashie, hope you enjoy!
@@GirlNextGondor It will be great, without a doubt :)
Thanks, Lexi! Watching now. 👍
Well worth the wait! Excellent video, as always. Thank you for brightening my day ❤❤❤
Thank you so much! I'm aways happy to brighten days. ☀️
Thank you for sharing the recording with us! I'm always very interested in your thoughts, and honestly I probably trust your opinions more than anyone else's at this point seeing how honestly and thoroughly you're willing to dive to make your analyses and commentary the best they can be.
Heh, Middle Earth's top AirBnB host. Imagine Frodo's review. "Yeah, he got that Morgul shard out of my shoulder, but then I got roped into this world-saving quest that took months and nearly got me killed . . . 2/5 stars."
Elrond is the greatest elf in Middle Earth to have never seen the light of the Trees.
In LOTR, he is also our gateway drug to the world of the elves, as he is the most highly respected and powerful elf who is not a deity trope like Galadriel or Glorfindel. He's relatable.
I thought the casting of Elrond was perfect. Jackson had to strike a balance between portraying elves as eternally youthful, but also didn't want to alienate an unfortunately all too mortal audience by making Arwen''s dad look the same age as her. So he cast 40-year-old Hugo Weaving, who is simultaneously just old enough to believably be Liv Tyler's father but also a little too young, which still communicates the reality that elves do not age.
Can I just say I love the opening music!!! Very interesting and an especially valuable character rehab
What a fantastic deep dive into who Elrond actually is! Wonderful work, Lexi. Just wish we could have more content. I see you are very close to 10K subs. I hope videos like this one will get those lethargic algorithms moving the traffic in your direction so that you can get twice the number of subs within a week or two after Tolkien Reading Day. Those days are critical for Tolkien channel subs to see what other Tolkien TH-camrs are out there.
He may be a side character who we take for granted but so much build-up has been put into Elrond, history and character exposition that he´s like several main characters worth elsewhere.
My thoughts *exactly*; it gets almost hilarious how much mileage you could get out of Elrond but he only ever appears for a handful of pages. Reading some of Tolkien's notes and letters I get the feeling he became a dumping-ground character. So many instances of "probably also Elrond" or "Elrond, naturally, would have been present" or "no one else (except maybe Elrond?)" but naturally the good Prof REFUSES to elaborate.
I wonder if Jackson could have avoided Elrond's Thingolification by just giving the "over-protective parent who wants Arwen to leave Aragorn" role to Galadriel, as Arwen's grandmother.
Galadriel fits that characterization of "stern, stereotypically-elvish, not too friendly toward humans" way better.
"Whether by the sword or the slow decay of time, Aragorn will die, and there will be no comfort for you." That's Aegnor's sister right there!
Were the text to this video offered I would so order a signed copy at my local independent bookstore. Also thanks for not commenting on the Bezos series to date.
Anyway, years ago, after seeing the Ranklin Bass depiction of Elrond 21:44 I was really freaked out when our food co-op hired a new manager I swear looked like a shaved human version of that Elrond. He even walked ethereal. He moved with cat like ease or the way I'd imagine a martial artist might, grounded and light on his feet at the same time. Some 20 years older and a retired navy officer/lawyer in his early 40's he had amazing customer service skills interpreting and resolving customer concerns to the degree our co-op financially stabilized while he was there.
Elrond in your video was far deeper than I'd given much conscious thought to. He could have been such a tragic character. Instead he consciously chose to "freak out" the expectations of how a normal person might react with grace that was not weak or meek. Actually, he was more inspiration than I expected.
4:40 Wowowow.... wow. Hold on. That pointy-ear man uniquely represents... A Link to the Past? Hm, I think we have seen more of Elrond heroics than we realize. Man just been bleeching his hair, popping his spirit into another dimension to find and save his princess in another castle all along!
I really enjoyed this episode, and the audio on your patreon channel was impressive and well thought out. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Found the channel a few days ago and you're probably my new favorite Tolkien youtuber. Your voice is really relaxing and the videos are really well produced for a small channel. Keep it up!
Wow, thank you! 😊Glad you're enjoying them!
Elrond's kind of like certain character actors; the mentor in his case, I'd say. Ubiquitous, but never quite in the spotlight.
My mother was absolutely enthralled by Jackson's version of Rivendell, much to her 22yo's amusement.
Hooray for being this close to 10,000 subscribers!
Hard not to fall for Rivendell, honestly ☺ I'm not a big Lego person but even I was tempted by the Rivendell set. It just looks so cozy!
Thank you, Lexi Gilthoniel, kindler of brighter TH-cam feeds.
Out here making things shiny!
Shining a brilliant light upon Elrond.
Yay! New video!
11:59 He'd want to be comfortable around others singing Trololo with Saruman as the head of the White Council.
Tra-la-la la-lee, here down in the valley!
Wow, I knew that Elrond was fostered by Maglor for a time, but I never made the connection to his feelings about oaths in his exchange with Gimli.
Wow! I nominate GNG as the next JRR Tolkien Chair of MiddleEarthStudies at, ideally, Oxford...
I learn so much from you, and the subtlety of your analysis is enhanced with the eye-candy artwork you select for us.
Thanx so much!!!
You're so welcome!
Given that Oxford is said to have one of the highest pubs-to-people ratios, it would be an ideal setting 😄
Well,@@GirlNextGondor, you've got the vote of this retired cultural anthro prof, for whatever it's worth (prob not much). I think your analyses are both entertaining&profound.
They did your boi dirty in the adaptations for sure. But what they did to poor Faramir is on another level . Insightful video , keep up the good work 😄
I've always hoped that Elrond and Faramir got to hang out in Minas Tirith after Aragorn's coronation. This would be one more thing they could bond over.
Elrond was essentially Google (without all the ads and evil of course).
"Before you start on your journey, my sponsorship agreement requires that I recommend Galadhrim-brand lembas for all your waybread needs."
@@GirlNextGondor
That is so much better than "Brought to you by Pfizer." 🤪
Since one of Tolkien’s fundamental influences was northern mythology and culture, the exhibition of Elrond’s courtesy to all is completely understandable.
Not exactly related to the theme of this video but it would have been a hoot if the LOTR movie had done a spoof scene with Hugo Weaving as Elrond, but with the dark glasses and earpiece from his Agent Smith role. "As you can see, we've had our eye on you now for a long time, Mr. Baggns...". That would have been a great extra for the DVD.
Thank you for another great video. I always await them eagerly!
Great video as usual, cheers!
🍻
Always love your videos. Fine work.
Thank you!
He does get to make the decisions since it all is curated (moderated) by him as the host of the council that included the noblest of each people in Middle Earth.
Heya lexi . Pleasure to hear your voice as always
Pleasure to see your text, Mr. Nolan!
@@GirlNextGondor 😆
IIRC, in The Fellowship of the Ring, Bilbo said Elrond was keeping him there basically for safe-keeping because the Nazgul were hunting for him.
Excellent distillation of an under-appreciated character! Thank you for this newfound appreciation of such a pivotal role.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you for your deep dive on Elrond!
I'm with you he is also my favourite character of the Legendarium 😊❤❤❤
Justice for Elrond🤘
Love your stuff. Eagerly looking forward to your character rehab of the race of orcs.
Haven't read the books in a couple years. Tomorrow I begin again. Thanks
Amazing video as always!
Thank you!!
I've always wondered why Elrond didn't succeed Gil-Galad after his fall. He was, after all, Gil-Galad's closest male kinsman, hence his role as the King's herald. His lineage itself, as descendant of both the Kings of Doriath (through Elwing) and Gondolin (through Idril), made him the ideal candidate. But perhaps it was offered/considered but ultimately rejected by Elrond himself. I do not recall ever coming across any reference to this; but then again, I do not own the 'Letters' book, so perhaps it was alluded in that. What's your take on this GNG?
I would have to double check the sources myself but I would say a main reason is there just aren't enough Noldor left to be king of. The Sindo-silvan contingent is certainly not going to let Elrond rule them at this point, Cirdan is manning what's left of Lindon, and if most of the remaining non-itinerant Calaquendi are already at least part-time inhabitants of Imladris, then Lord of Rivendell really is the highest political position left. The same thing happens in Arnor when the "last king" dies; his son continues the line, but under the title of Chieftains.
Perhaps interestingly, before Gil-galad was invented, after the defeat of Morgoth in the War of Wrath: "...but Elrond Half-elfin remained and ruled in the West of the world." (HoMe IV)
Excellent analysis of Elronds character. I love Jackson's films, but some of the characters in them deviate wildly from the books, and apart from Isildur and Denethor, none more so than Elrond. There seems no real acknowledgment that Elrond was 'Elrond the Half-Elven', and that he was a brother to Elros, the direct ancestor of Aragorn. Instead, he was dismissive of the whole race of men because of the choice of Isildur not to destroy the Ring once he took it from Sauron, something everyone in the books and movies says would be practically impossible for someone to do willingly once they possess it. Gandalf for example won't even touch it.
I also noticed you ignored completely the Elrond from 'Rings of Power'. Unfortunately, I think character depictions from the amazon series will colour how many people perceive Tolkien's characters as much as previous depictions.
She said she would talk about Rings of Power to her Patreon supporters.
@@Enerdhil Yes, i heard her thoughts there
Elrond: Middle Earth's Dad. 😂
I think instead of RoP, Amazon should have written a comedy drama in Rivendell, where Elrond and Glorfindel are constantly trying to rein in the resident troublemakers while taking care of their current guest(s). (Sometimes, Glorfindel *is* one of the troublemakers.)
Seriously though, I think your analysis of Elrond's character is great and look forward to more videos!
The three most wisest and soundest elves on Middle Earth during the events of LOTR would be:
1. Cirdan
2. Elrond
3. Galadriel
I would trust Elrond above Galadriel as Galadriel still secretly desires power, land and the One Ring.
But Cirdan I would trust the most as his temptation is to finally enter Valinor- and this he has resisted for 10000 years plus. And of all the Elves of Middle he is the most faithful to the Valar and Eru Illuvatar.
good to see another rehab video, im disappointed the early ones are no longer available ive always thought they were your best work. plse upload again. thx
After Frodo recovered in Rivendale he asked Sam about what he now thought of elves since he had time to get to know some. Sam’s response was to say that, “there are elves and there are elves.” He went on to explain that not all elves are the same which, if you take the time to read or listen to the actual LOTR book and some of Tolkien’s other works most people would realize. There are dark elves and there are high elves and a few other species of elves that vary in their characteristics.
You would never find that out by simply watching the movies which may be fine examples of Hollywood magic are simply not Tolkien. Jackson used the names of Tolkien’s characters and the names of the places in the book but he changed almost everything about the people and the story itself. Personally, I cannot watch the trilogy. What they did to the character of those heroes is just too heartbreaking. Jackson obviously enjoyed making LOTR into a monster movie. Although there were definitely monsters in the story they did not take up the amount of time and expense that was used in that movie.
The difference between Thingol and Elrond, Elrond wanted Aragorn to succeed whereas Thingol definitely did not want Beren to do so. Elrond raised, trained and in every way supported Aragorn's path to Kinghood of all of Arnor and Gondor. God Bless Christopher Tolkien! Directly? Indirectly? A huge influence on my life. Boromir, Beren, Thorin...the most tragic /horrifying story ever... Again. God Bless Christopher Tolkien. Fuck Simon!
Always makes me so happy to see your videos ☺️
💖 thank you!
You mentioned the Great Neo-Sindarin schism in your ROP section, and now, as a devoted Quenya student, I must know what this was! :)
Probably a reference to the very heated feuds in the linguistic community that were prominent in the late 90's and early 00's.
I hope she clarifies that remark. Maybe it would take a whole video to explain it. 😁🙏
Lexi put a post that suspiciously looks like a response to your post. I couldn't copy and paste it here on my phone but I took a screen shot of it and I will try to type verbatim what she posted:
GirlNextGondor. 2 days ago.
It was a humorous reference to a controversy that bubbled up in the late 90's and early 2000's regarding the treatment and availability of some of Tolkien's late linguistic writings, coupled with disagreements over the legality and ethics of deriving new "Elvish" words and grammatical constructions for the film dialogue. I don't think anyone actually calls it the Great Neo-Sindarin Schism, and with the kinds of discussions we've been seeing lately, it looks pretty tame in comparison.
That was the comment I found. when I went back to search for it. It was gone, so maybe Lexi will be mad at me for posting it here😅
@@Tar-Elenion
You are right as always!
I love his adaption in Rings of Power. They took 'kind as summer' and ran with it ❤️
I was pleased they didn't make him dour or stodgy. Maybe by the end of the 3rd age he's earned the right to be a *little* salty 😅
The bestest friend of Isildooor!
The hints that Elrond and Isildur worked particularly closely during the Last Alliance is another little-observed tidbit that really makes things spicy; it actually fits *very* well with the New Line Elrond's characterization. It's one thing to be let down by a random ally, but it *really* stings if the guy who's letting evil survive and dooming everyone is someone you thought you could rely on.
A comment to help heal Elrond's shattered heart from the witch-blade of the youtube algorithm.
Very much appreciated 🥰
You totally changed my way of seeing Elrond! I already liked him but I love him now❤
I think the Roman visual cue is telling, but I was surprised not to hear about the Amazon prequel adaptation of the appendices, where Elrond is more nakedly upstart ambitious as a diplomat but also disappointed with his own manipulative elven king. Both he and Galadriel are ambitious but also painfully learning about the dark side of attempting to manipulate or dominate their way to power. On the other hand, their contempt for a hands-off, insular elf rule is plain. They are both hyper-vigilant in their almost obsessive search for the return of the evil deceiver, and at least in their youth served as war generals. As a student of history, I see this as a recurring theme about British kingship, in the relationship of Merlin and Arthur (possibly a Roman-inspired figure), in Alfred the Great and Queen Elizabeth I and their sage war counsels. All of these had to restore old or lost kingly claims without the disaster of too greedily usurping power through violence or conquest, and all of them failed to keep their own hands clean of bloodlust and desperate gambles with their subjects lives and will. Elrond made his power through consistent neutrality and humility, and personal relationships with all and sundry, so I find that one of Tolkien's innovations or evolutions of the Merlin type, the only lord to model a sort of universal fraternity of beings, the sort of politics Treebeard complained was missing. In fact, I find it odd that Treebeard doesn't bring Elrond up as an acquaintance, given his familiarity with the wizards on the council. I can only conclude Treebeard is too bitter to acknowledge any exception to a general lack of unity among the various creatures, or that he is too burnt or cynical about those who pretended to offer that but turned out to be tree-killers.
Hugo looked exactly the same to me in the Hobbit and LOTR
For me I think the real issue has less to do with HW aging and more to do with all his Elven peers like Orly and Cate, formerly baby faced and now looking rather more mature.
@@GirlNextGondor Ah. Yes. Though aging rather well I must say.
I've never been really satisfied with the films portrayal of Elrond. This is much, much better.
Even in the novels there's so many neat things that aren't fully explored. I'm torn between thinking someone should really write/film/draw an Elrond-centric spin-off, and thinking the mysterious hints and 'unexplored vistas' might actually be the most valuable parts of his character.
I enjoy your dry humor immensely. Great information. Thanks!
Fine video as always. 😁
Middle Earth's top B&B host... There is an attractive business model?
😂
@@GirlNextGondor
That was such a perfect description of Elrond for the modern traveler to understand.😂🤣😆 Hilarious, but true.
Hugo Weaving did a great job as Elrond within the scope of the films, but I think his deep voice and stony demeanor would have been better suited for playing Sauron. You know, had the films chosen to depict Sauron as a person rather than a literal Giant Eye. As for who could have played Elrond in Hugo's stead, I actually think Christoph Waltz would have been perfect. For anyone who doesn't know the name, you might recognize Christoph Waltz from Inglorious Basterds or Django Unchained. He would need to be given long, black hair of course, and would have to change his natural German accent, but he's good with accents. And his face has the kind of approachable kindness needed to portray Elrond while still having the kind of sternness that conveys strength and experience.
I'd never considered Weaving as Sauron but I have to say I like the idea. He'd have to bring more of a flamboyant edge, but he's got plenty of other roles that show he could pull that off.
For looks alone, I recently decided a young Pierce Brosnan isn't a bad model.
@@GirlNextGondor
Long or short hair?😆🤣😂
The movies seem to have Elrond borrowing some of Elu Thingol's character traits re distrust of mortals and his behavior in trying to protect his daughter. Its not nearly as extreme as Thingol, though, or he'd have been banning mortals from Rivendell, locking Arwen in a tree and getting into fatal fights with dwarves over shiny objects.
Actually, in some ways he reminds me of Finrod Felagund, if a bit less likely to go charging off on the quest himself. But then Elrond is a lot older than Finrod was during the Silmarillion, and didn't get trapped by a concatenating series of oaths. And I can certainly empathize with Elrond's probable Oath-allergy. Growing up in the shadow of the worst of the Oath of Feanor would be enough to put Elrond off them forever. I actually think reading the Silmarillion had the side effect of making me take oaths and promises more seriously than most, and all I did was read the book, not live through it getting raised by the Oathbound Kinslayers who had killed or driven off most of Elrond's closest relatives.
can you do the love story between boromir and all those arrows next
Love this!❤thanks !
And she's baaaaaaaaaaaack!!!! TheAnd she's baaaaaaaaaaaack!!!! The Queen of Gondor-I mean the GirlNextGondor, anyways really enjoyed this video and will probably expand my post into a proper one.
Anyways, Elrond is one of those characters who is a very intense one, and a very important one in the novels with the movies hardly doing him justice to my mind.
Queen of Gondor-I mean the GirlNextGondor, anyways really enjoyed this video and will probably expand my post into a proper one.
Anyways, Elrond is one of those characters who is a very intense one, and a very important one in the novels with the movies hardly doing him justice to my mind. I found him too stern and bitter and distant, whereas in the books he's warm, wise and easygoing so that movie Elrond is too much of a departure for my taste. That said, I understand people adore that version so I'll limit my criticism here.
13:11 ... fuck me I would be a bitter hateful bastard... I've read every word and that summary of Elrond's life hurt me in my groin and made me nauseas
Showing a warmer and caring side of Elrond outside of the context of healing Frodo or love for Arwen, is one of the very few things Rings of Power did halfway well that the movie trilogy sort of glazed over.
Elrond is part of the White Council. And there IS an apparent uneventful side quest to deal with the Necromancer....and I say uneventful because it was left out from the story with only a mention.
It might have been SOMETHING...and left unmentionable because of something kept secret....but I think not. It DEFINITELY wasn't anything close to what we got in the movie. I LOVED the scene...on it's own...but it was eye candy at the cost of story contuity and logic.
I, too, experienced a bifurcation while watching that scene. One side of my brain is critically evaluating the impact on structure, theme, verisimilitude, etc. The other side is screaming with joy at getting to watch Elf-lords duelling Nazgul.
@@GirlNextGondor Don't forget the Istari! Even Saruman was fighting on the right side albeit for the wrong reasons!