Everything you say Fr. Kimel is absolutely right. Not merely because it makes sense logically, but because when you speak the truth my spirit LEAPS with a resounding YES! The gospel needs no convincing. One simply hears the truth and is made free.
Yes. His witness has helped me through much difficulty, together with the Torrance brothers, Gerhard Forde, Jim Nestingen, Rod Rosenbladt and Paul F. M. Zahl (and his sons!). God bless.
Love Eastern Orthodox. From their tradition we have a copious amount of the earliest Patristic Fathers who knew and explained that Universal Reconciliation was the gospel.
@@SuperDarkMan12TV Then it's my favorite heresy, and God is a heretic! For God clearly desires that all come to the saving knowledge and power in Christ, God desires and wills that all men be saved. Can we thwart the will of God?
@@rawfish_8.3 of course people can choose “hell”, we see it everyday through infidelity, drug addiction, and every manner of evil there is. The problem, is what we consider “free will” and what it means to choose what we perceive to be “good” vs. choosing what is good. No rationally functioning person consciously chooses to remain in perpetual torment, that is not rational, and we would usually call that a form of insanity. There is no sane person that would sick their face into a fire and remain there suffering intentionally without end. Furthermore, to call God a Loving God and allowing His creatures to choose such an end would subvert what it means to be a Loving Father. Would you yourself allow your own children to choose what destroys their lives in respect to their autonomy? Or would you do whatever it takes to bring them back into life? Another logical issue that arises with your logic, is calling God All powerful. If God wills that no one should perish but is unable to make that a reality then the god if your paradigm is not all powerful.
Thank you so much for doing and sharing these interviews; Fr Kimel's blog has been a treasure for me in times of despair. This interview was beautiful, and it was lovely to see Fr Kimel in person. Thank you both and keep up the excellent work; looking forward to seeing your synthesis.
@@katherinegeorge2400. according to your interpretation of Holy Scripture. Go easy in life, share the Good News God loves you, God is for you, God is with you.
alright brother universalism is the most optimistic belief in Christianity I'm very thankful to have discovered it from my own searching and people posting videos like you. Some call it the "beautiful heresy". He died for the sins of all the world and not just believers.
Interesting. I have been in the "Universalist" camp since 2005 and I have never come across the name of Fr Aidan Kimel. Just looked for his blog and it looks like it hasn't been added to since 2015. Will check it out anyway. Always good to find new things to read. :)
Just in case you found a different blog, here is the link to Fr Aidan Kimel's "Eclectic Orthodoxy" afkimel.wordpress.com/ I am linking it here just because it is added to quite regularly (even today, the 15th of December), so I think the one you found that hasn't been updated since 2015 might be something different.
@@shiningdiamond5046The book of Romans is one of the greatest pieces of universalism ever written. I'm not here to argue. Just to say that universalists understand these writings much differently and that is widely available if you are ever interested.
"Let us struggle with all our powers to gain Paradise. The gate is very narrow, and don’t listen to those who say that everyone will be saved. This is a trap of Satan so that we won’t struggle." --Elder Paisios the Athonite
It is God's will that ALL be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). If we don't listen to those preaching the True Gospel that ALL will be saved, then we would be going AGAINST God's very will. We would be opposing The Almighty God's desire that ALL be saved and none shall perish. That would not be very bright would it.
@@michaelj.frazee9043 But "God wills all to be saved." no more implies that all will actually be saved any more than "God wills all not to sin." implies that all actually will not sin.
Universalists - “All will be saved!” The Lord Jesus Christ - “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. Beware of false prophets..”
This comment is a result of Protestant fundamentalism using literal interpretation introduced since 19th century. A conservative reaction against Enlightenment and later Darwinism etc. Catholicism and Orthodox theology closer to the early Church father's has a better understanding on hell and it's real meaning. Restoration through refining in the crucible of God's love. Most Protestants will ignore critical or correctly said careful Bible study taking into account original Greek and Hebrew. Also it's wrong to apply our 21st century mindset to the culture of Jesus's time. God the Father did not punish His Son for our sin. God the Father co suffered with Jesus laying down His life thus conquering death by the power of the Holy Spirit and reconciling ALL of creation to the Godhead. How often do we not see ALL will be saved and never once do we see the word SOME. This God is easy to love and desirable to draw to. So much more on this subject. For those Evangelical fundamentalists who are questioning with honest hearts there are many voices that are restoring God's never ending love grace and mercy. Maybe start with the brilliant Bible scholar Brad Jerzak who was a Baptist pastor and now is Orthodox. Not that we should make idols of denominational ISM. Shalom and God's peace be upon you ALL.❤️
Hello brothers! Just want to ask a question because I'm wrestling with this. Then why there are passages in Bible that leads to "salvation" like what must i do to be saved.
His wrath is against that which destroys his creatures, His creation. His Wrath, is a Saving wrath even though it may last as long as needed to burn away all the chaff from the wheat of each soul.
Universalists - “God is love, therefore.. All will be saved!” The Lord Jesus Christ - “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. Beware of false prophets..”
@mr.blackpilledbeast572 where does that broad way lead to? “Destruction”. “Destruction” is not “life”. To conflate the two is to do away with every warning of Jesus Christ, which He gives to us in love. If you will not hear the words of the Spirit, you are in danger of this destruction which He speaks of.
Having skimmed through parts of this man’s blog from postings since 2006 on justification to December 2022 on universalism, from anglicanism to Rome to Eastern orthodoxy, I must say I find the trajectory of this man’s faith and theology terrifying.
It’s funny when the Bible can say “the sky is blue” and people say “we are hopeful sky bluests”.. I can read 5th grade English and I believe the Lamb of God took away the sins of the whole world. Wtf does hope have to do with believing Jesus is the savior of the whole world? I think we do this topic disservice when we act like it’s something that has to be “hoped for” or “potentially is true.” - 2+2=4 and that’s not up for debate the same way universalism isn’t up for debate. Would we entertain men’s opinions who differ on 2+2=4? Some would, I won’t.
You think it’s funny? You should consider the context of where the Bible teaches this. If you believe this means that every single person in the world who ever lived will be saved I fear for you. This is the same Bible that speaks of people for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever, people who will be thrown into the lake of fire, people who will suffer the judgement of hell, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
@@doctor1alex Not all Scripture is to be taken literally, especially if taking some verses literally, clearly leads to a contradiction. If something is literal in Scripture, it is this: 1Cor 15:28
only because you come with that presupposition! {if you read a couple books, e.g. That All Shall be Saved or The Inescapable Love of God, there *is* truly another coherent way to put things together, & imo it's quite beautiful and makes sense of everything}
Yes, I totally agree. I like many books, but my favorite is The Inescapable Love of God! If everyone in the church would just read chapter 4, universal reconciliation would no longer be regarded as heresy by mainstream Christianity.
The universalists here say “you’re reading the Bible with presupposition! Just read a couple of our universalist books written by man and you’ll see how to read the Bible differently”. I don’t know whether to cry or laugh or go to war. Yes the Bible is clear at face value. The Spirit of God does not speak obscurely on the matter of the judgement. The Lord Jesus spoke plainly on hell and the fact that many will not see life but are on the broad road to destruction. For those who deny this, your soul is in perilous danger. The words of the Lord Jesus, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’” And many more are the passages on the judgement of the damned, Matthew 25 as one example. For anyone with an inkling of conscience left, flee to Christ and run far from those who would tell you there is no wrath in God. Do not harden your heart, do not subdue your conscience.
Not if you read the end of revelations 22:15 it tells us that outside the city are those that so called ”eternally damned” why are they outside the city if they are in eternal torment,it is a heretical doctrine of the western church,and unfortunately most don't study for themselves,my God that I serve is big enough to forgive and purifies all and he will bring all men to the glory of the father of that was not possible the Christ died in vain and paid for no sin on cross,it's not just hopefully thinking it what's spoken of in scripture from beginning to end and Christ is precisely that the alpha and Omega the beginning and the end as in Adam all die so I. Christ all are made alive.
Yes, you absolutely can Brother Andrew, especially after you study and learn that many of the passages that at first appear to be pointing to ECT or eternal death are in fact mistranslations and contextually crippled. Tradition should be less important than the original root meanings. We just need to continue to research and pray for discernment. If God truly is the very source of love and he is the father of all of his creation, and Jesus was the atoning sacrifice for our sins, then there is nothing we do to save ourselves. We are not saved by works, which includes asking for forgiveness. We are all already forgiven, even before we repent. It's important to try and live Godly, but we can take comfort in knowing that God's judgments are loving and corrective in nature. This will be the return of Jesus when every knee bows, confesses and swears allegiance to God, freely and joyfully. This is God's consuming fire. His love will consume us all!
@@jasonegeland1446 Sorry, but these references to "out of context" and "translation errors" seem to be some wishful thinking when I recall the serious warnings of Jesus Christ to not fall under divine judgement.
Yes you can. And the scriptures actually don't teach infernalism or annihilationism especially when you consider Paul speaking of the destruction of the old self in favor of the new. I'd recommend David Bentley Harts book "that all shall be saved" and I have seen some good interpretation of scripture on the universalism subreddit.
@ brother andrew, I second DBH’s book ‘That ALL Shall Be Saved’. In my opinion it is the best book (outside of the New Testament) that thoroughly explains Universal Reconciliation. One of the major stumbling blocks of both Calvinism and Arminianism infernalists is their inability or unwillingness to understand the nature of God the Father. That is the crux of all of scripture; knowing the character of the Creator. From that foundation one builds their entire theology. Infernalism is quite literally built upon a systematic theology that imbues God with attributes we impute into him based upon a misunderstanding (either willful or neglectful) of the eternal nature and qualities of God.
@@christianuniversalist Well said, Erik. I have That All Shall Be Saved too. I have started it, but have also started 'Flames Of Love - Hell & Universal Salvation by Heath Bradley. I haven't been able to find any other known publication by him, but so far it's very well written, insightful and enjoyable. I've also a copy of David Bentley Hart's 'The New Testament - A Translation, a used copy, but was unaware it was without it's dust jacket, but I kept it anyway and will order it brand new in the near future. I decided on keeping this version so I can help to preserve the other one in mint. My remaining books on the total inclusion through Christ are 'Raising Hell - Christianity's most controversial doctrine put under fire! (very good so far). I nearly forgot to mention my copy of DBH's 'The Story Of Christianity - An Illustrated History of 2,000 Years Of The Christian Faith (There seem to be two different versions, but mine is the one with the old painting of the very angry-looking God on it). Lastly, 'A More Christ Like God' by Bradley Jersak (Brad Jersak, the other Bradley)! Anyway, so much for less is more! All the best!
TO ALL CHRISTAINS: Jesus is God. Jesus is God. He's not merely love, he also hates evil. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23 The WILL OF THE FATHER is for you to stop sinning. Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.1 John 3:4-6 “But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” Matthew 5:44-48 God is faithful and does not lie, if He says “you shall be perfect”, then it is possible through His work in you. Trust in His promise or believe the lie "you can't stop sinning" if you want but the bible does not contain that teaching. Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. 1 Corinthians 15:34 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:1-6 Pray that you will stop sinning through the power of Jesus. He is faithful and you can trust Him. Please do not be one of those who will hear ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. Revelation 3:19
You haven’t met Jesus yet my friend. Soon you’ll understand the mysteries of these verses. Your on a journey like us all and sometimes when you least expect it, you’ll have the eyes and ears to see and hear . God Is love and everything he does is a facet of that truth.
So your saying that people are going to an eternal hellfire torture chamber for the very sins that Jesus died for?? Hahaha, WOW! 😆🤣 THE HYPOCRISY OF MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY KNOWS NO BOUNDS! 🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮
@@backtolifesneakers1 exactly… universalism is very esoteric. Only a select few of us have risen to the level of this heightened knowledge. And that’s essentially what Christianity is: for those with clever enough minds to understand that esoteric wisdom
@@Mrm1985100 That's a repugnant view to think a person could live a painful miserable life then just be annihilated because they didn't make a choice that you did. All bad choices are the result of ignorance or weakness. Sin is a sickness of the rational faculty. God will heal it.
I think anything other than universalism for all things reduces to something like nihilism. Without universal restoration, at some point meaning unravels entirely and God becomes some arbitrary brute reality no more meaningful than God not existing at all.
@@Mrm1985100 If you can't stomach the mere thought of EVERYONE being saved, then why do you always hop on these Christian Universalist channels? These so called heresy hunter's going around on utube bashing the Christian Universalists are highly annoying and in no way Christlike. They claim to love God and yet HATE the message that ALL will be saved, which is the very will of God the Father. (1 Tim. 2:3-4)
In my reading of Orthodoxy there seems to be much disagreement on this subject of salvation. Origen is not a good source as he was condemned for many heresies. Some of Origens heresies were very serious errors. One the subject of universalism I have heard two objections that no one ever seems to articulate. The one is if universalism is true then there is no reason to evangelized people who are lost or in spiritual darkness. The second is if universalism is true then the use of the human will is meaningless. The human will individuates between multiple goods and multiple evils every day we live our lives. If you are saved no matter what you choose in this life, then there are no bad choices. There are no more consequential effects from your sin in the final outcome. I find this doctrine to cause confusion in my mind. One the one hand I see the Bible warning us against eternal judgement and on the other you have the doctrine of the Harrowing of Hell which seems to suggest that people after they have died can believe the gospel of the resurrection and be saved. In the scripture it even says that those who were disobedient during the time before the flood. Jesus was merciful to these people and took them to paradise. At this point I am just trusting in God's mercy. I don't have much else I can do.
One thing to consider is that many Christian universalists still do believe in a "hell" or a period of punishment; they simply believe it won't last for *eternity*. But some believe it could last a very, very long time, or even if a short period of time, that it would obviously still be very unpleasant. Considering the fact that most people obey laws on Earth even just to avoid going to jail, I don't think it's fair to say there are "no bad choices."
@@billyb7465 I think based on my own studies that hell is more of a spiritual eternal condition than it is a place. It could be a place, but the fact that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth shows that it is a condition of remorse. Hell can start here in this life. We all know people who have made such bad choices that they are already in remorse over the decisions they have made. My understanding is that hell is determined by your mode of willing in this life. You can choose life and you can choose death as in Deuteronomy 28-29. It is an interesting subject and I find the early church fathers to be more insightful on this subject than what you get in modern Protestant churches.
Everything you say Fr. Kimel is absolutely right. Not merely because it makes sense logically, but because when you speak the truth my spirit LEAPS with a resounding YES! The gospel needs no convincing. One simply hears the truth and is made free.
Fr. Kimel's blog, and the intellectual and spiritual community the blog has created, has been a tremendous blessing for me.
Yes. His witness has helped me through much difficulty, together with the Torrance brothers, Gerhard Forde, Jim Nestingen, Rod Rosenbladt and Paul F. M. Zahl (and his sons!). God bless.
Thank you. So moving.
Love Eastern Orthodox. From their tradition we have a copious amount of the earliest Patristic Fathers who knew and explained that Universal Reconciliation was the gospel.
Nah, that's heretical.
Yes, spread the gospel don't listen to the christ deniers they deny the power of God unto salvation
@@SuperDarkMan12TV Then it's my favorite heresy, and God is a heretic! For God clearly desires that all come to the saving knowledge and power in Christ, God desires and wills that all men be saved. Can we thwart the will of God?
@@kolasis4994just because he wills and desires it doesn't mean that some people don't out of free will choose hell. Right?
@@rawfish_8.3 of course people can choose “hell”, we see it everyday through infidelity, drug addiction, and every manner of evil there is. The problem, is what we consider “free will” and what it means to choose what we perceive to be “good” vs. choosing what is good.
No rationally functioning person consciously chooses to remain in perpetual torment, that is not rational, and we would usually call that a form of insanity. There is no sane person that would sick their face into a fire and remain there suffering intentionally without end.
Furthermore, to call God a Loving God and allowing His creatures to choose such an end would subvert what it means to be a Loving Father. Would you yourself allow your own children to choose what destroys their lives in respect to their autonomy? Or would you do whatever it takes to bring them back into life?
Another logical issue that arises with your logic, is calling God All powerful. If God wills that no one should perish but is unable to make that a reality then the god if your paradigm is not all powerful.
Thank you so much for doing and sharing these interviews; Fr Kimel's blog has been a treasure for me in times of despair. This interview was beautiful, and it was lovely to see Fr Kimel in person. Thank you both and keep up the excellent work; looking forward to seeing your synthesis.
This man speaks with such tenderness and conviction. Can't believe I'm just hearing of him :O
Stay away, he is heretical and does not know Scripture, nor Orthodoxy.
@@katherinegeorge2400. according to your interpretation of Holy Scripture. Go easy in life, share the Good News God loves you, God is for you, God is with you.
@@JohnHMarsden According to the actual original Church.
alright brother universalism is the most optimistic belief in Christianity I'm very thankful to have discovered it from my own searching and people posting videos like you. Some call it the "beautiful heresy". He died for the sins of all the world and not just believers.
So sorry for your loss.
I have always thought that universal salvation ought to be obvious given that God is love.
Beautiful message. God is love.
Love his blog🔥
God's unconditional love is mirrored through his love and hope towards God.
Thank you, amen.
amen... kind of like my experience.
Interesting. I have been in the "Universalist" camp since 2005 and I have never come across the name of Fr Aidan Kimel. Just looked for his blog and it looks like it hasn't been added to since 2015. Will check it out anyway. Always good to find new things to read. :)
Just in case you found a different blog, here is the link to Fr Aidan Kimel's "Eclectic Orthodoxy" afkimel.wordpress.com/
I am linking it here just because it is added to quite regularly (even today, the 15th of December), so I think the one you found that hasn't been updated since 2015 might be something different.
The book of romans refutes universalism
@@shiningdiamond5046The book of Romans is one of the greatest pieces of universalism ever written. I'm not here to argue. Just to say that universalists understand these writings much differently and that is widely available if you are ever interested.
"Let us struggle with all our powers to gain Paradise. The gate is very narrow, and don’t listen to those who say that everyone will be saved. This is a trap of Satan so that we won’t struggle."
--Elder Paisios the Athonite
It is God's will that ALL be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). If we don't listen to those preaching the True Gospel that ALL will be saved, then we would be going AGAINST God's very will. We would be opposing The Almighty God's desire that ALL be saved and none shall perish.
That would not be very bright would it.
No, it is NOT a "trap of Satan"!
@@michaelj.frazee9043 But "God wills all to be saved." no more implies that all will actually be saved any more than "God wills all not to sin." implies that all actually will not sin.
Universalists - “All will be saved!”
The Lord Jesus Christ -
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. Beware of false prophets..”
This comment is a result of Protestant fundamentalism using literal interpretation introduced since 19th century. A conservative reaction against Enlightenment and later Darwinism etc. Catholicism and Orthodox theology closer to the early Church father's has a better understanding on hell and it's real meaning. Restoration through refining in the crucible of God's love. Most Protestants will ignore critical or correctly said careful Bible study taking into account original Greek and Hebrew. Also it's wrong to apply our 21st century mindset to the culture of Jesus's time. God the Father did not punish His Son for our sin. God the Father co suffered with Jesus laying down His life thus conquering death by the power of the Holy Spirit and reconciling ALL of creation to the Godhead. How often do we not see ALL will be saved and never once do we see the word SOME. This God is easy to love and desirable to draw to. So much more on this subject. For those Evangelical fundamentalists who are questioning with honest hearts there are many voices that are restoring God's never ending love grace and mercy. Maybe start with the brilliant Bible scholar Brad Jerzak who was a Baptist pastor and now is Orthodox. Not that we should make idols of denominational ISM. Shalom and God's peace be upon you ALL.❤️
Hello brothers! Just want to ask a question because I'm wrestling with this. Then why there are passages in Bible that leads to "salvation" like what must i do to be saved.
God is not just love, He is also wrath. However, since all the sins in the world are finite, they are countable, the wrath of God is finite as well.
His wrath is against that which destroys his creatures, His creation. His Wrath, is a Saving wrath even though it may last as long as needed to burn away all the chaff from the wheat of each soul.
Universalists - “God is love, therefore.. All will be saved!”
The Lord Jesus Christ -
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. Beware of false prophets..”
@mr.blackpilledbeast572 where does that broad way lead to? “Destruction”. “Destruction” is not “life”. To conflate the two is to do away with every warning of Jesus Christ, which He gives to us in love. If you will not hear the words of the Spirit, you are in danger of this destruction which He speaks of.
Although I appreciate much of what he shares, Fr. Aidan Kimel will block you if you ask questions that he doesn't like.
Having skimmed through parts of this man’s blog from postings since 2006 on justification to December 2022 on universalism, from anglicanism to Rome to Eastern orthodoxy, I must say I find the trajectory of this man’s faith and theology terrifying.
why?
Terrifying loving....
How so?
It’s funny when the Bible can say “the sky is blue” and people say “we are hopeful sky bluests”.. I can read 5th grade English and I believe the Lamb of God took away the sins of the whole world. Wtf does hope have to do with believing Jesus is the savior of the whole world? I think we do this topic disservice when we act like it’s something that has to be “hoped for” or “potentially is true.”
-
2+2=4 and that’s not up for debate the same way universalism isn’t up for debate. Would we entertain men’s opinions who differ on 2+2=4? Some would, I won’t.
You think it’s funny?
You should consider the context of where the Bible teaches this. If you believe this means that every single person in the world who ever lived will be saved I fear for you.
This is the same Bible that speaks of people for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever, people who will be thrown into the lake of fire, people who will suffer the judgement of hell, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
@@doctor1alex
If God's greatest attribute is truly Love, then eternal suffering of any kind is impossible.
@@nikokapanen82 Not according to the Lord Himself and His people as recorded in sacred Scripture.
@@doctor1alex
Not all Scripture is to be taken literally, especially if taking some verses literally, clearly leads to a contradiction.
If something is literal in Scripture, it is this: 1Cor 15:28
And yet the whole of Scripture seems to say that the wicked will be judged, perish, be excluded from God's kingdom and disappear.
only because you come with that presupposition! {if you read a couple books, e.g. That All Shall be Saved or The Inescapable Love of God, there *is* truly another coherent way to put things together, & imo it's quite beautiful and makes sense of everything}
Yes, I totally agree. I like many books, but my favorite is The Inescapable Love of God! If everyone in the church would just read chapter 4, universal reconciliation would no longer be regarded as heresy by mainstream Christianity.
It actually doesn't. Unless you don't know how to read ancient text. You can read anything you want "into" it.
The universalists here say “you’re reading the Bible with presupposition! Just read a couple of our universalist books written by man and you’ll see how to read the Bible differently”.
I don’t know whether to cry or laugh or go to war.
Yes the Bible is clear at face value. The Spirit of God does not speak obscurely on the matter of the judgement. The Lord Jesus spoke plainly on hell and the fact that many will not see life but are on the broad road to destruction. For those who deny this, your soul is in perilous danger.
The words of the Lord Jesus,
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’”
And many more are the passages on the judgement of the damned, Matthew 25 as one example.
For anyone with an inkling of conscience left, flee to Christ and run far from those who would tell you there is no wrath in God. Do not harden your heart, do not subdue your conscience.
Not if you read the end of revelations 22:15 it tells us that outside the city are those that so called ”eternally damned” why are they outside the city if they are in eternal torment,it is a heretical doctrine of the western church,and unfortunately most don't study for themselves,my God that I serve is big enough to forgive and purifies all and he will bring all men to the glory of the father of that was not possible the Christ died in vain and paid for no sin on cross,it's not just hopefully thinking it what's spoken of in scripture from beginning to end and Christ is precisely that the alpha and Omega the beginning and the end as in Adam all die so I. Christ all are made alive.
Can I dare to be a hopeful universalist in spite of many bible verses who AT LEAST teach annihaltion if not conscious eternal torment?
Yes, you absolutely can Brother Andrew, especially after you study and learn that many of the passages that at first appear to be pointing to ECT or eternal death are in fact mistranslations and contextually crippled. Tradition should be less important than the original root meanings. We just need to continue to research and pray for discernment. If God truly is the very source of love and he is the father of all of his creation, and Jesus was the atoning sacrifice for our sins, then there is nothing we do to save ourselves. We are not saved by works, which includes asking for forgiveness. We are all already forgiven, even before we repent. It's important to try and live Godly, but we can take comfort in knowing that God's judgments are loving and corrective in nature. This will be the return of Jesus when every knee bows, confesses and swears allegiance to God, freely and joyfully. This is God's consuming fire. His love will consume us all!
@@jasonegeland1446 Sorry, but these references to "out of context" and "translation errors" seem to be some wishful thinking when I recall the serious warnings of Jesus Christ to not fall under divine judgement.
Yes you can. And the scriptures actually don't teach infernalism or annihilationism especially when you consider Paul speaking of the destruction of the old self in favor of the new.
I'd recommend David Bentley Harts book "that all shall be saved" and I have seen some good interpretation of scripture on the universalism subreddit.
@ brother andrew,
I second DBH’s book ‘That ALL Shall Be Saved’. In my opinion it is the best book (outside of the New Testament) that thoroughly explains Universal Reconciliation. One of the major stumbling blocks of both Calvinism and Arminianism infernalists is their inability or unwillingness to understand the nature of God the Father. That is the crux of all of scripture; knowing the character of the Creator. From that foundation one builds their entire theology. Infernalism is quite literally built upon a systematic theology that imbues God with attributes we impute into him based upon a misunderstanding (either willful or neglectful) of the eternal nature and qualities of God.
@@christianuniversalist Well said, Erik. I have That All Shall Be Saved too. I have started it, but have also started 'Flames Of Love - Hell & Universal Salvation by Heath Bradley. I haven't been able to find any other known publication by him, but so far it's very well written, insightful and enjoyable. I've also a copy of David Bentley Hart's 'The New Testament - A Translation, a used copy, but was unaware it was without it's dust jacket, but I kept it anyway and will order it brand new in the near future. I decided on keeping this version so I can help to preserve the other one in mint. My remaining books on the total inclusion through Christ are 'Raising Hell - Christianity's most controversial doctrine put under fire! (very good so far). I nearly forgot to mention my copy of DBH's 'The Story Of Christianity - An Illustrated History of 2,000 Years Of The Christian Faith (There seem to be two different versions, but mine is the one with the old painting of the very angry-looking God on it). Lastly, 'A More Christ Like God' by Bradley Jersak (Brad Jersak, the other Bradley)! Anyway, so much for less is more! All the best!
TO ALL CHRISTAINS: Jesus is God. Jesus is God. He's not merely love, he also hates evil.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23
The WILL OF THE FATHER is for you to stop sinning.
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.1 John 3:4-6
“But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” Matthew 5:44-48
God is faithful and does not lie, if He says “you shall be perfect”, then it is possible through His work in you. Trust in His promise or believe the lie "you can't stop sinning" if you want but the bible does not contain that teaching.
Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. 1 Corinthians 15:34
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:1-6
Pray that you will stop sinning through the power of Jesus. He is faithful and you can trust Him. Please do not be one of those who will hear ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. Revelation 3:19
You haven’t met Jesus yet my friend. Soon you’ll understand the mysteries of these verses. Your on a journey like us all and sometimes when you least expect it, you’ll have the eyes and ears to see and hear . God Is love and everything he does is a facet of that truth.
Amen
So your saying that people are going to an eternal hellfire torture chamber for the very sins that Jesus died for?? Hahaha, WOW! 😆🤣
THE HYPOCRISY OF MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY KNOWS NO BOUNDS!
🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮
He is not merely love but totally love.
@@backtolifesneakers1 exactly… universalism is very esoteric. Only a select few of us have risen to the level of this heightened knowledge. And that’s essentially what Christianity is: for those with clever enough minds to understand that esoteric wisdom
For me, it's Theistic universalism or Atheism. I wouldn't worship a god who permits or inflicts eternal hell.
There's also Annihilationism which everyone seems to conveniently leave out but which has by far the most Scriptural support.
@@Mrm1985100 That's a repugnant view to think a person could live a painful miserable life then just be annihilated because they didn't make a choice that you did. All bad choices are the result of ignorance or weakness. Sin is a sickness of the rational faculty. God will heal it.
I think anything other than universalism for all things reduces to something like nihilism. Without universal restoration, at some point meaning unravels entirely and God becomes some arbitrary brute reality no more meaningful than God not existing at all.
@@Mrm1985100 If you can't stomach the mere thought of EVERYONE being saved, then why do you always hop on these Christian Universalist channels?
These so called heresy hunter's going around on utube bashing the Christian Universalists are highly annoying and in no way Christlike. They claim to love God and yet HATE the message that ALL will be saved, which is the very will of God the Father. (1 Tim. 2:3-4)
@@Mrm1985100 The Bible in it's original state in the Hebrew and Greek plainly declares Jesus as Savior of the whole world.
Not one scripture referenced. Very telling lol
He became a universalist cause his son became an atheist
In my reading of Orthodoxy there seems to be much disagreement on this subject of salvation. Origen is not a good source as he was condemned for many heresies. Some of Origens heresies were very serious errors. One the subject of universalism I have heard two objections that no one ever seems to articulate. The one is if universalism is true then there is no reason to evangelized people who are lost or in spiritual darkness. The second is if universalism is true then the use of the human will is meaningless. The human will individuates between multiple goods and multiple evils every day we live our lives. If you are saved no matter what you choose in this life, then there are no bad choices. There are no more consequential effects from your sin in the final outcome. I find this doctrine to cause confusion in my mind. One the one hand I see the Bible warning us against eternal judgement and on the other you have the doctrine of the Harrowing of Hell which seems to suggest that people after they have died can believe the gospel of the resurrection and be saved. In the scripture it even says that those who were disobedient during the time before the flood. Jesus was merciful to these people and took them to paradise. At this point I am just trusting in God's mercy. I don't have much else I can do.
One thing to consider is that many Christian universalists still do believe in a "hell" or a period of punishment; they simply believe it won't last for *eternity*. But some believe it could last a very, very long time, or even if a short period of time, that it would obviously still be very unpleasant. Considering the fact that most people obey laws on Earth even just to avoid going to jail, I don't think it's fair to say there are "no bad choices."
@@billyb7465 I think based on my own studies that hell is more of a spiritual eternal condition than it is a place. It could be a place, but the fact that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth shows that it is a condition of remorse. Hell can start here in this life. We all know people who have made such bad choices that they are already in remorse over the decisions they have made. My understanding is that hell is determined by your mode of willing in this life. You can choose life and you can choose death as in Deuteronomy 28-29. It is an interesting subject and I find the early church fathers to be more insightful on this subject than what you get in modern Protestant churches.