You'll hate me, but this lore is so stupid
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2024
- We need to talk about non-darkside use of Force Lightning, including the supposed light side power of electric judgment. All that and more on today's Star Wars Legends lore video!
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Everyone laugh at Mar for using the wrong image for the Unifying Force
I feel like you could write a character who was a Sith Lord that did more good than many Jedi. What if your personal drive and passion was helping other people?
Even if you became a slave to your more base passions, someone who is driven to help people would end up more like an oathbreaker paladin in D&D rather than a baby slayer.
I agree, this was a problem Legends Canon had thrust upon it by videogame logic, though personally I think this was mainly done because force drain was a new lightning ability obviously more dark locked to Sith(the dark, I use Sith but agree with your rectangle analogy) so suddenly lightning became less locked to the dark side and usable by light side users.
Then from there authors presume that since they CAN use it there MUST be a "light" version, but in NJO it must be remembered the 'Vong were wholly outside the force and thus crept in the same kind of political "life" vs "not life" argument of fetus's in current politics, and so the question was if using lightning on a Vong was actually killing "life" as the Force did not recognize that they were living beings and the Jedi at that point experience "life" as a concept of balance within a construct that did not include the Vong.
I feel like electric judgement specifically is supposed to be like a taser. It's not lethal and is defense oriented. I can see that being a jedi power.
You talking about Darth Marr?
@@DBeskar6605Not at all, I see this rather large portion of the fan base who seem to consider the force "magic" but it is not, the term "space wizard" is used for Jedi to denote relative ability scaling but what they wield is not "magic" but natural energies.
What this means is your Sith Lord isn't some Nuclear power plant, he is a coal mine, his energy based abilities literally warp and distort and "wound" the force, he creates untold butterfly effects throughout the galaxy at the twist of a finger, Jedi abilities in contrast are used like an H-vac system, in Darth Plagious novel a Sith lord controlled his butterflies to create the typhoon that would be Anakin Skywalker, but in general Jedi are the ones thinking about consequences.
Midichlorians support that the force is something of an extradimensional ecosystem, and as such creatures do in fact live there and face consequences for abuse of dark side energies even without noted real world victims.
I like how, in the novel Plaugeis, Palpatine believes that Dooku would never be able to become a full Sith because, unlike Anakin, he was raised by the Jedi and was completely molded by them.
the same reason palpatine would always tell dooku to shut his mouth whenever he mentioned the potential ally obi-wan could be.
He was not completely molded by them or else he would be a Jedi 😭
@@zacvh Or heavily molded by them. Even Anakin and Revan had that spark of light after years of being a dark side user.
@@zacvh Not how it works, dooku was molded by them but was open minded enough to acknowledge their flaws, and he began to heavily disagree with some decisions. its like growing up being raised by your parents then later starting to notice their issues and flaws.
@@mitwhitgaming7722 Well revan never really "fell" to the dark side like most jedi did, he did it willingly and decided to turn, all of that light was gone. He only had a spark of light left because he essentially died a sith and was brainwashed and re-molded as a jedi and then slowly started to remember his sith ways which is why he is seen as someone in between the light and dark sides
so it's not that he had a spark of light left in him, it was forcefully given back to him after he was brainwashed and no longer knew he was a sith at some point or that he was revan
The Jedi Marketing team was on point: It's not Force Electricution, it's, uhm...Electric Judgement.
I prefer the term Force(d) Benevolence myself
I think it doesn’t help that Force Lightning doesn’t leave scorch marks and burns when we see it being used on a person. It looks less like a violent electric flamethrower and more like you’re doing extreme tazing on a dude
The Canon novel Dark Disciple (yeesh) actually has the best and most realistic description of the damage Force lightning can really do. When Dooku electrocutes Ventress with his Force lightning, her described injuries are 100% consistent with real life lightning strike victims (including blood trickling from the nose & ears and Lichtenberg figures).
@@raghuvarv That is absolutely crazy, props on whoever wrote the book in making Force Lightning what should be something brutal and not to be taken lightly.
When Sidious used Force lightning on someone in the "Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison" comic, he completely burns him up.
In the Truce At Bakura, Luke Skywalker was suffering from muscle aches and double vision, plus partial calcification of his skeletal structure. He was hoverchair-bound until he recovered through a lot of rest, meditation and bacta treatments.
Well, even tasers leave a nasty ass mark.
But, what can I say, seems people don't like the jedi stuff to cause damage on people
I can get behind Electric Judgement as a sort of force taser: a nonlethal way of subduing people, quick and mostly painless without long lasting damage or risk of death.
Yeah, that's what I wanted to point out, force taser. There might be situations where Jedi lost his lightsaber and is surrounded by formidable enemies.
"Just don't be a sith, lol."
-Kyle Katarn
Ah sith spit
I always assumed Force Lightning was like the Cruciatus Curse in Harry Potter, powered by the desire to hurt the person. Like with the dark side, the Unforgivable Curses are powered by the desire to hurt and control others, and there's no real way to use them in a good way. You can be powered by righteous anger, but you're still giving into darkness and that's always bad.
Harry was really tip-toe-ing a fine line when he used the sectumsempra. I would rope that in with the unforgivables because its purpose is to do a similar thing.
The sith version is about half electricity balf direct hate-death radiation
That depends on your point of view. The test of every man in a world where anger is just a reality of life is to turn that anger toward doing something productive.
And then there's the Doom Slayer. You go tell him he's wrong, I'm not trying that 😆
Plos electric judgment is him being purely hateful towards evil. It would be cool if Yoda had a green version of it. Impossible tho since Yoda has zero emotion
I can think of 2 of the unforgivable curses that can be used in a good way, one of them may not work and there are probably much better ways to put someone out of there misery that the killing curse but the imperious curse can have quite a few good intention uses, 1 I can think of off the top of my head someone is intent on harming you and under normal circumstances they won’t stop unless you put them down hard or they put you down maybe even for ever but (cast spell) “”GO AWAY!”” End of situation and no one got permanently harmed, think of when we have terror attacks (cast spell) “”STOP! THROW YOUR WEAPON AWAY AND SIT DOWN ON THE GROUND WITH YOU HANDS ON YOUR HEAD THEN GO WITH THE POLICES WHEN THEY COME FOR YOU!”” think how meny life’s something like that could save, so yes there are exceptions.
Maybe force lightning / electric judgment could be used to repower the hyperdrive engine of a medical frigate.
New that's renewable energy!
True force lightning is without a doubt a dark side ability as the objective is to cause as much suffering as possible before ultimately causing death, but weaker versions of it ranging from defibrillators to simple incapacitation could be used by Jedi.
The ot never stated that force powers or light sabers were light/dark specific some nerd wrote a book that said it.
@@rayswiatek5948why would you think that matters? Sides of the force having powers has been safely considered starwars fact for decades
@@calebbarnhouse496 Valid but I think one of the coolest things is seeing how Jedi or Sith adapt abilities of the opposite side of the force, or people like Kyle Katarn who don't subscribe to the same philosophy. The face of 'dark' and 'light' side abilities may be true, but the alternative viewpoints always added a nice little bit of depth to the lore
@@neonthunder3261 sure, but that doesn't change the fact that certain abilities require you to draw in dark side emotions, while some require you draw in light side emotions, and characters that make use of the dark side abilities should have to fight against corruption from the dark side
@@calebbarnhouse496 yea duh lol
A way I could see electric judgement making sense with the Jedi code is if it uses the hate of the recipient instead of the hate of the evoker. This would also fit the name "Judgement" very well. It's not the force user who's harming you, it's your own negative emotions. It would basically use the same principles of generating electricity through negative emotions as force lightning, but the source of these emotions would be different. If used on a decent person, it would have minimal to no effect.
Or, just remember that New Republic jedi are much less dogmatic than pre-empire jedi. They aren't trying to purge themselves of emotions, they harness their emotions for a greater good. Delving into dark side powers when necessary makes more sense for the jedi that Luke trained than for the one Yoda led.
Those sure are some big hoops you are jumping through to make that work lol
I'm honestly surprised that the Jedi version of Force Lightning wasn't something like nerve-numbing electricity. Like, non lethal, non-painful, but can incapacitate an opponent or disable say, a sword arm, or a leg, or cause unconsciousness if it's used full body or just on the head.
Not like a Taser, which still inflicts pain, but almost like a novocaine effect. Mid fight, blast someone's arm, and it goes limp for a while. Makes it harder to fight.
I'm pretty sure a decently skilled jedi can just do most of that already without electric judgment. If they're capable of lifting someone off the ground they've essentially incapacitated them, i don't think individual limb manipulation is off the table either, and I'm pretty sure there's a higher level ability to cause someone to fell nauseated enough that they can't function properly.
Me personally, I kinda dislike the Electric Judgement idea. When developing the ability and deciding to write it into the lore, it feels like they looked at The Empeor in ROTJ and said "Wow, that's cool! We should give the Jedi a similar ability, but less powerful because it's too violent for 'peace keepers'." I think the idea of being a heavy Lightning user is a sign of a fully emersed Dark Sider who is at the peak of their power. You have to draw upon your rage and hate to intentionally cause harm to someone. This flies in the face of the Jedi teachings, so giving them a watered-down version that can be used with NO rage or hate just cheapens the ability, and also removes the consequences of use, as the the more you use the Dark Side, the more it deteriorates your body and soul.
One example that may be a bit niche: Chaos Unison in MegaMan Battle Network 5. While using a Dark Chip outright grants immediate power, it has consequences. Chaos Unison removes the permanent consequences, and lets you use the power of the single Dark Chip you've activated a potential unlimited number of times until th Unison wears off. While there ARE in-game reasons as to why this doesn't corrupt MegaMan, it feels like using it SHOULD cause some side effects during the story, but it doesn't.
Plo btw when he did was in a manner of defending life and it wasn't torturous at all as the guy immediately fell on conscious
I feel like the force lightning Plo Koon used in his story wasn't either of those since it was moreso a taser when he was out of options to save a hostage (if I'm remembering correctly). I was told in the same video that the Jedi did like a dark side power of creating massive storm clouds on planets, which I think we can all agree isn't good if true.
Yeah, in Plo Koon's case, it's the same moral dilemma as tasers - an incredibly painful but not particularly dangerous way of taking someone down, which should not be used when a less violent tool will work, and which is somewhat lacking in effectiveness compared to certain more lethal options (except in specific circumstances). Its use case is fairly limited, but within that use case, it's overall the lesser of two evils. Jaina Solo also suggested using Force Lightning as a makeshift ion cannon to disable an enemy ship without killing anyone, which is another potential use case (though in that particular instance, I think that they were too close to the dark side to be using the Force as a weapon, no matter the reason).
As for Force Storm, there are several different abilities that that could be referring to. One is the ability to create wormholes using the Force, theoretically enabling unaided FTL; this is probably dark side because it messes with the fabric of reality in a way that probably has consequences; another is the ability to summon giant storm clouds, which I've never actually seen, but I can imagine that it would be useful in case of drought; and the third is a name for Tier III Force Lightning in certain games, which is almost certainly not what that video was talking about (though if we're thinking of the same video, I don't think we were told anything other than its name and the fact that it's pretty difficult to use).
Okay I agree with a lot of what you said but a small counter point. I think there are some cases where channeling the force into electricity (which is all force lightning and electric judgement are) would be perfectly fine in Jedi philosophy. Such cases could be using it to short out a group of droids that can’t be dispatched another way safely or perhaps to short out a control panel or even charge or power some machine like we see in the force unleashed games. I agree that using it as an offensive tool against living beings is dark side for sure, but in these cases I can’t see any ethical argument against it by the Jedi (other than they don’t want to encourage use of it at all in case they then use it on living beings) but other than that there’s no reason why it couldn’t be used for these other reasons.
Maybe even using it as a some form of defibrillation
I think things like Force powers shouldn't be viewed as Powers You Can Do and more as a pure manifestation of personal belief. To summon lightning-a level of power that is so far beyond a taser or circuit-shorter as to be an entirely different, painful thing-you shouldn't just need anger or hate, you should need to hold the belief that it is your right to bring down that kind of punishment on someone. You are chaining the universe to your will and deciding "this is right. Bringing an agonizing, paralyzing death to the person in front of me is how the universe should work." In this, there's no small belief to work as a taser or to short-out Droids without the force to grievously harm someone.
a fan fiction I read, and love, has it used as a type of medicine. the planet the story takes place on has a form of blood-born parasite, practically a separate living being, that was very dangerous. Normally kept under control via kinds of medicine's. Extreme cases like the protagonist (Kenobi) got needed more of a surgical tool than a 'cure'. Death of the parasites, to save the human patient, because he did not have the time left for the other methods.@@agiammarco94
@@nickmalachai2227 I agree that makes sense to a degree if we’re talking about the strength of force lighting we normally see dark siders use, but I don’t see any mechanical or moral reason why there couldn’t just be a lesser version of force lighting that can only stun people with no real damage or only affect machines. Of course the lore explanation would probably be that turning the force into electricity in any capacity is inherently dark side, I just think that that’s incredibly stupid reason that doesn’t really make sense.
Maybe Jedi could summon lightning to recharge their batteries on the field.
I'm pretty sure in KotOR using Force Lightning gets you negative light side points. Granted I think any Jedi master would have some level of being able to use Force Lightning. A Jedi uses the Force for defense and knowledge, but never for attack. On the flip side of that coin Luke Force Choked two of Jabba's guards... that is an attack. So... the Force often just acts however a story-teller needs it. Cop out, yes, but still.
I think investing in it gives you a few dark points, but not using it. Spammed that stuff and still had the highest light side score I could get.
@@nickmalachai2227 I think at some point you either become so Light or Dark that you just can't lose that. Not that I disagree with you, it has just been so many years since I've played KotOR and can't learn it as a Jedi on TOR.
@@AlvorReal That is good, I am glad there are people to correct my bad info lol. Either way it was a pretty darn good game, I'm glad people remember mechanics cause usually plot is what I remember.
I just re-watched ROTJ an hour ago and forgot that scene. I was like "wait a minute... did he just...?" And he never saw Vader or anyone use force choke before then so he had to have taught himself it too.
(A neat touch in that D&D-based tabletop system was how most of the light side force powers required training to use, while all the dark side ones could be used untrained, at the cost of giving in to your darker emotions. Quicker, easier, more seductive indeed.)
Oh, I thought this was going to be on the Dark Nest Crisis, not Electric Judgment.
What, you don't like the Jedi take on the Palindrome Zerg? XD
@@moffjendob6796 I hated that trilogy. It made the Chiss the "bad guys" against gd *Zerg*! Even gave Luke a High Templar move. How much you want to bet it started out as pitch Denning made to Blizzard that got rejected.
And they make Crybaby Raynar Thul into a "powerful force user". Dude was always incompetent and weak, yet some Space Bugs made him insanely powerful?
@@justinlast2lastharder749he was never shown to be that weak though, theres no reason he couldn't have gotten that powerful. That being said, any of the other jedi probably would have been even stronger in his position
I didn't remember the Vong writhing in pain when hit with it. The power of Electric Judgement was to use a feeling of Righteousness to either Stun or Instantly Kill an enemy without causing pain. Basically a system shut down where a person would not suffer. You couldn't torture someone with it at the end of the day.
Where as Normal Lightning, Sith Lightning, Dark Lightning whatever people want to call it was fueled to just cause harm and nothing else, and be the most painful experience it possibly could.
Yoda redirecting force lighting back at the user is a perfect example of jedi philosophy. I would expect such a feat is much more difficult for a dark sider because of how they view the force and how they channel it. Dooku blocked it by meeting the redirected lighting with force. His look of surprise wasn't just that yoda could counter his attack he didn't understand WHAT yoda was doing to accomplish it.
I think this is spot on.
Really great breakdown! You got to the root of how the Force and light/dark sides should operate. The “light side” and “dark side” aren’t two arbitrary forces that can or should be equally utilized. The dark side is inherently a perversion of life itself, and tapping into that will twist you. The Force makes up and binds all life, and it’s inherently at peace and is peaceful, and when a Jedi taps into it it’s for selfless means and ends to help others. Something like force lightening inherently taps into something baser and ugly. Even if it may be more effective in the short run you’re going out of your way to inflict cruel pain. And I like what you said about electric judgement having cruel ends even if it doesn’t have hateful means. That being said from what I’ve heard about the ability it seems less torturous than regular Force lightning, but I’m not too knowledgeable so idk if there is a way to make it work with the Light side under specific circumstances. It may be one of those things where it is the last resort. Narratively it can be pretty interesting, as long as the dangers of it are not underestimated.
I think the whole “gray Jedi” philosophy is kinda BS because balance in the force doesn’t mean “light and dark in balance.” That’s not really what George Lucas ever intended. The dark is the imbalance, it’s hate and selfishness and ignorance, and because of its empowering and intoxicating nature it is extremely difficult not to go overboard once you start relying on it. If you’re gonna use a dark side ability it needs to be an absolutely necessary evil never to be used again if possible, not a power trip.
Personally, my headcanon is that it's like the difference between Iroh and Azula using lightning generation in ATLA. With both abilities being essentially the same.
In both cases, it requires a significant degree of skill and focus to do. However, despite their differences in the intent of their bending, and that it does affect the nature of how it's used, lightning generation is something completely independent of those considerations. Azula not being good at lightning generation because she's evil or emotional, but because she can quickly become very cool-headed when she needs to use it.
So, in the context of Star Wars, it's just more sought-out by dark side users because it's just naturally more desirable to them, making it more common among them. But it's ultimately an ability whose "side" is defined by how it's used.
Luke is using the dark side when he uses Lighting in NJO, but as you mentioned it is all about intent, but he can tap into that through Vergere's philosophy, but this is the reason why Luke later drops that philosophy in Dark Nest and dedicates the order entirely to the Light, Luke knows it is wrong
Electric judgement and force lighting are totaly different from each other. Force lighting damages the target while electric judgement stuns the target, pacifying them
So it's just lower voltage Force lightning?
@jayb8934 pretty much yeah. You can kill someone with a taser. But that is not its purpose.
Unless you crank the power setting to max, in which case electric judgment is just recolored force lightning but fueled by pragmatism instead of malice.
What about 'Destroy Droid' where a Jedi basically creates a massive static shock to short out a droid, how does that figure in?
#AskEck I've had the idea for a little while now that Lucasfilm should pursue adapting George Lucas's sequel treatments in comic form and getting Lucas himself to consult on it. This may sound like an out-there idea but Lucas was clearly unhappy that the story of his sequels was never told, he's had a life long love of comic books as a medium and even though he's retired, he's always been happy to consult on projects whenever Lucasfilm have asked him to (Solo, The Mandalorian, Dial of Destiny, etc). For Lucasfilm's part, they're fine with producing non canonical content like Visions and the rumored 'What if?' series. Marvel Comics has also just announced they'll be publishing 'What if?' Alien comics and Dark Horse recently published a comic adaption of one of James Cameron's old drafts for an Avatar sequel, so I don't see why Lucasfilm can't get either company to give Star Wars the same treatment. It could even be nice way to celebrate the upcoming 10 year anniversary of the beginning of the sequel trilogy, taking a look at what it could have been. So, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think it's an idea Lucasfilm should pursue?
Personally I don't see why force lightning has to be a dark side ability. All it is is just channeling force energy to your fingers and coverting it into electricity. You don't have to use negative emotions to do that. Hell, you don't have to use emotions for any force ability, really.
You literally do though. That's the whole point of it. It's pure malice
@@uberness77 No, you don't. You just focus energy to your fingertips and shoot it out in the form of electricity. There's nothing emotional about that. You can do that while being completely emotionless.
So you're saying that torturing people to death is only a dark side ability if you hate the person you're killing? Interesting perspective. I'm not sure I've ever seen the Force defined in quite that way before.
@@samueldimmock694 I'm saying you don't need emotions for it, because there's nothing emotional about turning your life force energy into electricity. You can manipulate life force energy without emotions, that's what I'm saying. You don't need emotions to turn your emotions into electricity, that's why force lightning shouldn't be considered a dark side ability, because you don't need "the dark side" to turn your energy into lightning.
@@Ash-Winchester From the perspective of the force, life is precious in all its forms, it goes through all living things. I feel that a power whose sole purpose is to destroy, corrupt or maim life is a perversion of the force and thus a dark side ability and action, no matter who you're killing or for whatever reason.
I've always seen the concept of Electric Judgement to be less about harming another being than it is about ending a dangerous situation as quickly as possible. I'm pretty sure the passage that coined the term was an account of a Jedi using it to end a hostage situation. It definitely leans towards the dark side, but so does using a lightsaber to cut off someone's arm.
Jacen's usage of Electric Judgment during the NJO books operates by sapping energy, not inflicting pain, FWIW. This is explicit during the Battle of Ebaq 9.
I'm so glad you brought up the idea of video game perspective. In the case of someone like Starkiller, force lightning is certainly more fun and a good game element. However, he's torn between the pure way, and corrupted way of using the force, something not worth thinking about in the middle of a war. Kyle Katarn, 'Revan,' the Jedi Exile, all have the potential to be these 'torn between two sides' figures, who enable the player to skid the line.
Just as Sith Lightning uses one's will to inflict pain, Electric Judgement uses one's will to do justice.
The Sith are torturing you with their own sense of anger and hatred toward you.
The Jedi are torturing you with their own sense of moral superiority over you.
Even though I think Electric Judgement makes sense for the Jedi of the high and late republic who were blinded by their obnoxious hubris, I agree that a power which essentially stems from pride is not a light side power.
I could imagine a light side version of Force Lightning that does exhibit a fair level of restraint and doesn’t make the target suffer. My idea is that it would function akin to a taser, a short, strong jolt of electricity used to quickly & humanely render an opponent unconscious. I could also imagine it would be a largely banned technique because of the near surgical level of control needed & the required knowledge of near countless target species it could be ised upon, as even a slight mishap would lead to accidentally injuring, killing, or causing them to suffer.
Counterpoint: You say that Force Lightning can't be used for defense, but isn't that basically what a taser is?
He's not saying electricity can't be used for self defense. Force lightning itself is not electricity, it only looks like it. Force lightning is sheer hatred and rage given energy form. It's destructive and harmful. It REQUIRES malicious intent. Over the years newer writers have butcher it, like with Rey using it accidentally. But originally, Force Lightning was impossible to use unless you fully knew what it was and how it was used, and intended to use it to cause harm, pain, and death.
Counter-counter point: comparing tasers to force lightning is akin to comparing BB guns to a fully automatic rifle. We use tasers for self defense because they’re usually non-lethal, not too difficult to learn to use, and, most importantly, don’t leave lasting damage which is, ideally, not something you want in a self defense weapon. Pretty sure blasting someone with painful lightning for tens of seconds on end is not self defense. Stunning something with a small burst of electricity to their nervous system IS. Idk, but it’s a fine line I think.
Honestly the difference between the two types of electric conduction weapons in our world would make a pretty good decision between light and dark side. Most tasers are really "stun guns,"they work by taking a point and flooding it with electricity as a form of pain compliance, potentially leaving burn marks. Actual tasers usually use NMI- it creates a circuit between two points, disrupting the nerves, and basically creating the mother of all cramps.
IMO, that leaves plenty of gray area as a way of incapacitating someone with minimal suffering. You could even flip the script and have the light side version work as a contact method, you have to touch them in two spots.
@SWPOTC1298 People in real life, and Jedi i. SW use plenty of lethal things for self defense too.
@@SWPOTC1298 what about Markiplier's Baton Stick with a Taser on the end part like a lighting sword
Unfortunately having so many cooks can lead to inconsistency. For the most part I agree with you.
Certain things that can be done with the Force should (imo) require a specific mindset or emotional state. Something like lightning coming from a thought to specifically cause pain. Not just anger but a desire to pain.
Can a Jedi do it? I think what Yoda was trying to explain is that when you do something it's easier to keep doing it. If you allow yourself to react with anger it will forever be harder to not do it because you allowed yourself to do it. If you indulge in causing pain once you'll think about it again and more often.
I think the reverse also applies. I think for a Sith there's also a temptation to walk down the light path if you've done it. If you love someone or feel sympathy you'll more easily do it again. Either one can generate a reflexive action, or cause doubt. Being conflicted mentally would obviously have your mind trying to do two different things at the same time sapping energy from both or delaying action.
Can a Jedi do it? Probably. But you'd forever be tempted to do it again. You'd be left having to be more mindful you weren't doing it. If you've never punched someone in the face it won't be where your mind first goes to resolve an issue. If you've ever done it and felt satisfied or happy to see someone get what you think they deserve you'll much more easily consider it again. Especially if it's a much faster and personally rewarding option.
It's not that I think a Jedi can't be a Jedi after. Vader becomes a force ghost. I think going to the emotional place and expressing it would create a mental tension you'd never be free of.
The ability to exercise restraint has been a popular theme since Homer’s Iliad.
I wholeheartedly agree with your take on force powers. I suppose it is inevitable that "scale creep" happens as you seek to add more and more content to a franchise. Different creators and different media have different ideas and requirements.
id argue that it could exist but as a means to stun rather than injure
I think the abstract idea behind Electric Judgement is that it's like a stun gun, a controlled discharge meant to incapacitate but not kill, while proper Force Lightning is more like natural lightning, an unleashed burst of rage torturing and killing anything in its way.
Lightning would be a Dark corruption of Electric Judgement, the same way Force Choke is a corruption of standard telekinesis, etc.
Unfortunately in practice it does just get used as "Lightning but it's not evil because it's green" which... is a bit silly, yeah.
I for one completely agree with everything you said. Force lightning requires you to channel your anger and I can't see that being done by a jedi
In addition to it being an inherently dark side power, I think that Force lighting should be exclusive to only the most powerful Force users. There was such mystique around the Emperor in RotJ. This old man who Darth Vader bowed down to. Who seemed to regard a lightsaber as little more than a toy when he looked at Luke's. We knew that he must be especially powerful. Then suddenly we see him completely overpower Luke by casually unleashing a lightning storm from his fingertips! Honestly, since then, the sheer number of characters who have used Force lightning has cheapened it. And yes, I know that all of the people who have used it (or "electric judgement") ARE very powerful Force users, but I still think it became a bit too common.
So using force lighting to jump start my car would be greatly frowned upon by the jedi order
You are wrong about one thing: I don't hate you and almost completely agree! The dark side is seductive even to the writers. Its really interesting to read through the comments here too and see how many different ways people conceptualize the Force. In my mind the dark side is summed up as "exploitive" and damages the force to take advantage of the chaos and energy that results, which is why dark side powers often manifest as violent and seemingly barely under control. The more forceful or damaging a power is the "darker" it is, and channeling the life of the galaxy into pure energy to painfully kill is hard to imagine as being in harmony with the Force. Even if the Force isn't harmed, the fact that it mimics the effects of force lightning still contributes to dark side corruption by giving the user a quick and easy (from their perspective) way to deal with a problem and helps rationalize those kind of dangerous short cuts in the future.
Agreed... I aways considered Force lightning as a Dark side ability, because of the way it is used across all the movies. Ray being able to do it served as a hint of Her dark heritage and that's what made it shocking (no pun intended)
#AskEck What do we know of the development of the Venator? Was it ready at the outset of the Clone Wars or did it enter service sometime after it began? And what did the Republic Navy have before the Venator (and by extension, the Victory) came into service that could stand up to Seperatist capital ships?
Lore ship Versus video request:
Resurgent vs. Starhawk
Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing
World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship
Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail
Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version)
Keldabe vs. ISD II
MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer
Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class
Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser
EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator
Praetor vs. Subjugator
EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III
Gargantua/Aratech 520 Battle Platform vs. A6 Juggernaut
You know, I was literally reading all about the light vs. dark sides of the force, especially concerning lightning for a fanfic I'm working on. Here's the way I like to interpret things:
First, as Yoda states, ANY time a force user utilizes the force for offensive use is channeling the dark side.
However, as Luke and other "grey Jedi" would find out, the corruption caused by using the dark side depends on the emotions channeled to use it.
Force users can, with enough effort and training, minimize (but not completely remove) the corruptive effects of dark side use by controlling their anger and hatred.
So I see offensive force powers that Jedi use, such as Electric Judgement, not as light side abilities but as dark side abilities used without giving in to the corruption of the dark side. Personally, I think that every time the Jedi used the force for combat did channel the dark side, though their philosophy helped prevent falling for the allure (for the most part).
All in all, I do agree that using such a pure discharge of force energy is always a dark side ability. I do think, however, that certain individuals familiar with both sides of the force can use dark side abilities (to a degree, of course) whilst avoiding "falling to the dark side" so to speak.
Idk, using it to stun, distract, throw an opponent off balance, put some distance between you and the opponent, seems like that would not be dark. IDK if just cause you use it, you have to have deadly intent.
Sometimes the Force is not always a mystical invisible intergalactic bubble that doesn't appeared in anything. So there's alot of things that the Force haven't discovered fully. So I don't see a problem of having of Force lightning variations.
I agree on Ploo and other jedi, but isn't Kyle a grey jedi? From my understanding according to Kyle's philosophy there is no good or bad force powers, there is only intent. Like mind control is a light side force, but you could do pretty heinous thinks with it, and you could use force lighting to save someone innocent. Not an expert here, so I could be wrong ofc. Personally I'm more of a lotr guy
I woudlnt say grey, per se. I think gray would mean they dont believe in the LS or DS at all, I think Kyle does, just in different terms than traditional dogma.
@danielvitale7788 perhaps, like I said no an expert on star wars
Nah man force lightning is like that scene in the first Dirty Harry movie when Harry's going to meet with the Scorpio Killer to pay a ransom and he's taping a switchblade to his leg in case he gets double crossed and the chief says to him "A police officer shouldn't even know how to use one of those things!". Dirty Harry style jedis would at least know how to use force lightning if they were in a pinch.
We see the true light side variant of Force Lightnig in the Kotor games, with the ability Droid Stun, using the force to stop a machine from Doing harm. It just happens that this Power manifest itself as lightning.
I remember hearing an electric judgment could be used to stun. If that's true and that's a big. If I don't know, I think it could be used by light siders and be a light side move.
I really enjoy the idea that there can be Jedi that can use it. The main way that you can make it work is the idea that any Jedi who uses force lightning most be in complete control of their mental faculties or they will fall. In the Vong war and afterwards, I enjoy the idea that one, the Jedi are different than before, but they are still not the pure Jedi that they should be. Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade uses the force more like a tool than say, Luke and Jacen, who are force channelers and also have a more spiritual outlook on the force. But even they use it. I think an argument can also be made that the vong war pushed the Jedi into being far more willing to use certain abilities if it meant survival
During the Vong War, a lot of them kind of decided to stop thinking about light and dark because it was irrelevant - the Vong were outside of the Force, after all. Not that they actually did exist outside of the Force, merely outside of the Jedi's ability to perceive the Force; but that wasn't the only mistake they made. And Luke's order, for all of its good features, really didn't understand the Force very well, and that limited them in so many ways. It's kind of hard to learn if your teacher's honest answer to a lot of important questions is "I haven't really thought about it before" or "I'm as confused as you are."
There has been at least one Jedi who used it in a way that was clearly light side. It was a Force taser, and was used as such - a nonlethal way of incapacitating someone who was a very clear and immediate danger to someone else, used when no other nonlethal weapons were available. And the Jedi Council investigated in thoroughly before accepting that it was okay.
my completely head cannoned explanation for electric judgment being 'ok' my jedi standards is that it does damage proportional to the targets inner darkness, in a similar way to vaapad turning a dark side duellists power against them
The dark side has force lightning, the force has force healing
Well, I have always wondered why the Sith don't have a straight up "Mind Control" power to mirror the Jedi "Mind Trick" (just like how powerful Jedi can counter Force Lightning just by absorbing it without damage, like Yoda).
Well, there's the Ezra straight-up mind control part where they tease darkness there. With the Force, I really do think it's a matter of application.
Obi-Wan uses mind tricks to prevent conflict with distraction and illusion, which prevents the loss of life without harming anyone. Ezra (in the example anyways) ends up killing a bunch of people, including the one he mind controlled.
Just like physical Force manipulation - a push, pull, grip, choke, etc. are often arbitrarily considered different despite being the same method in different applications.
It comes down to wo things in my opinion. Intent and application.
Regardless of what school of thought you come from(Vergere, old jedi order, sith, etc) it is pretty commonly agreed upon that a lot of actions can be light or dark depending on intent. Striking down a target with a lightsaber isn't an evil/dark side action in many contexts(self defense, defense of another, etc) but can be when done in other circumstances(executing a defenseless prisoner). Similarly Telekinesis isn't inherently a dark side action, but using it to choke someone to death is. Force lightning being used in its form of electric judgement as an attack design to incapacitate or obtain an advantage to kill an otherwise dangerous foe(such as the slayers, who in the context of the fight at the citadel, could not be taken alive) satisfies the application angle(after all, a force push into a lightsaber slice would come under far less scrutiny)
Intent is the other half of the coin, using any force power for because you want to *hurt* someone rather than because you want to *stop* them will always be a dark side act. Plo Koons usage of electric judgement satisfies the intent angle, since his usage was to incapacitate a hostage taker and care was taken not to inflict undue harm.
I do the Plo Koons usage of Electric Judgement does fail to adhere to the Jedi Philosophy, but just like not all dark siders are sith(and not all dark side actions are inline with sith tenets), not all lightsiders are jedi and not all lightside actions are inline with the jedi code.
I do think there are plenty of "light side" uses of force lightning/electric judgement that fail to satisfy these conditions though.
I've felt like if "Electric Judgement" had something more to distinguish it, it would of been more sensible.
Like if it was a short sharp powerful blast of energy instead of a continuous extensive blast. Something to reduce the extended drawn out pain it caused? or was a sort of less painful stun blast, I might of been more into it.
I feel like at times it was described kind of like that, much shorter and sharper in it's effects to reduce or eliminate the tortuous component that the Sith liked and much more of an instant kill last-resort technique. But I'd have to re-read those books to confirm that.
It is absolutely wild hearing someone, let alone a youtuber, take the stance that (to me) seems way closer to how the force was originally presented to us. Don't get me wrong, I also like the options of dark side powers or similar types in games. But that's for gameplay purposes.
I'd love to see some stories that more strongly resembled how they were originally shown to us.
The only "good guy" force lightning I could understand would be as part of force healing like a force AED to shock a heart back to life. But using it to kill and torture is definitely dark side.
“A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a facsimile, but not true Sith lightning, which, unabated has the power not only to incapacitate or kill, but to physically transform the victim. Force lightning requires strength of a sort only a Sith can command because we accept consequence and reject compassion. To do so requires a thirst for power that is not easily satisfied.”
- Darth Plagueis (Darth Plagueis, Chapter 13: Riders on the Storm)
It’s funny, to me Force lighting vs Electric Judgement is one of the few times I think the argument about intention mattering in the light vs dark question actually works. Judgement always struck me as being about neutralizing a situation as quickly as possible when necessary, and was not automatically lethal. One of the reasons I believed Jedi saw it as so dangerous was because of how easy it would be to cross that line once you’re shooting lightning of wanting to punish and kill.
While I do think this video does do a good job of explaining why Force Lightning should be an exclusively Dark Side power, I do think Electric Judgment would still make sense if it was a non-lethal power. If the idea behind Electric Judgment was that you would incapacitate your target instead of torturing or killing them, it definitely rides the line but I can see how someone could justify that as a Light Side ability. Sort of like using a taser instead of a gun. The main problem here of course, is that Electric Judgment has been shown to be capable of killing.
To borrow from another franchise, imagine using the Force to fire electricity as being akin to shooting someone with a phaser. "Electric Judgement" is the stun setting while "Force Lightning", depending on its intensity, ranges from the heat setting, through the wound and kill settings up to maximum setting that can vaporise a person. It's not nice to zap someone whatever setting you use it on, and should not be your go-to method of conflict resolution, but it's better to have a non-lethal option and not need it than to need it and not have it.
If memory serves, very few Jedi are ever permitted to learn Electric Judgement because of how difficult it is to keep their emotions in the right place to "stick to the stun setting" once they start channelling the Force in a zappy manner. It supposedly requires a very specific temperament, which in the prequel era was only held my Plo Koon.
What if the lore was amended such that only Jedi who have been or are on a path to the dark side can use force lighting/electric judgement due to their closeness to the dark side? Of the ones I know who have used it (Jacen, Luke, and Kyle) they all were dark at one point to varying degrees.
Not a bad idea.
I'm completely with Eck here. Legends has produced some really cool material and sometimes went unbelievably off the rails. And changing the color of force lightning and calling it a "good" version, that's definitly firmly in the latter ballpark. Even if the original "dark" force lightning wasn't simply lightning-colored, but evil-red, it would be silly...
Didn't the NJO address this? It's been a few years since I read it, but I seem to remember that Luke and his Order were taking a new view of the Force due to Vergere's influence that had them all using Force Lightning on a regular basis. Except, after a bit, Luke and Mara(?) realized because of the cost it began to have on their bodies (i.e. Dark Side corruption), that it was a bad idea, and stopped.
You could debate the morality of mind 'tricks' by comparing their use to that of extraordinarily effective pursuasiveness or charm and arguing that their differences are suffciently negligible, thereby qualifying the former as 'neutral'. The only world in which lightning could be ethically employed is one in which we could ensure the reliability of unlawful interrogation techniques for the greater good. Utilitarianism is relatively unexplored in SW canon, though, even when references to 'grey' Jedi are being made.
The one reference to utilitarianism (or more properly aggregate consequentialism, as good outcomes were not defined in terms of happiness) that I can think of was an example of someone who tried to use evil methods for good ends, but arrogance and sunk costs fallacy defeated him - though he did technically succeed in ending the war, by uniting everyone against a common enemy.
I know that in the Star Wars RPG by FFG (now belonging to EDGE) then there was a power that was split into light side and dark side exclusive opposites of each other: Heal was the Light Side and Harm was the Dark Side. They were pretty straight forward in application, with one restoring wounds, and the other damaging wounds.
I would like for the Light Side of the Force to have some sort of parallel or equivalent power to Force Lightning, but not something that's just a color swap of a Dark Side ability.
For what it's worth, Plo Koon's story for how he first used it was just to knock someone out and save a hostage, it came from his sense of justice, he was conflicted about what happened and reported it to the council. He ends up deciding he should continue to learn about the power and shouldn't just neglect its use wholesale. That said, I wouldn't say this is the norm for how lightning gets used by Jedi. And yes, Kyle uses it one because Dark Forces/Jedi Knight are a video game series (the best Star Wars video game series still), but also because it's part of the plot that he taps into the dark side, straight up (taps into is an understatement, if anything).
Then there's the matter of The One's of Mortis. In the past, apparently the Son didn't use his lightning all for bad purposes. Not Jedi or Sith characters, but still.
Addendum on the Plo Koon thing: The purpose was absolutely to save someone else's life, is the major thing there. Not saying it's issue free, but it's about as reasonable as you're going to see lightning being used that way by a Jedi.
The Son is complicated. He was initially described as being the dark, in some unspecified way, and it was implied that this was not evil. It was necessary. But then he was warned not to fall to the dark side, and this warning was given the same way that a Jedi would give it - falling to the dark side is synonymous with becoming evil. This suggests that he was some sort of embodiment/master of the dark side long before he fell to the dark side. Now I"m not saying that mortals could ever be in the same position (though Mace Windu may suggest that they can); but it is an interesting thing to think about.
And it's questionable how reliable our sources on the Mortis Gods are (in Legends, anyway) - one source is ancient Killik records, which were explicitly described as factually questionable; the other is the Clone Wars tv show, which had Ahsoka on Mortis, whereas the records of that event that Luke found did not seem to mention her. Maybe both sources are wholly reliable; maybe one is and the other isn't; maybe neither of them are wholly reliable; maybe the whole thing was falsified by the Architects to cover up their true activities.
I feel like there is a misconception between good & evil vs 'lightside' and 'darkside'. Killing in and of itself is a dark act but sometimes it is required to kill a dangerous person to save others.. Offensive force powers that attack such as lightning are a dark side act but of course it comes down to WHY it is being used that dictates whether the act is actually good or evil.
Say, do you think you can do a video on the assault frigate mark II? There are so few people who mention that ship, and it's one of my favorites!!!
Congratulations on 1 million. Amazing work man.
What about force choke?
#AskEck What is your favorite/most powerful faction in Star Wars canon?
Hey, Eck! Could you cover some cool legends ships that you think should go to canon?
I love this explaining yourself while playing saul goodman clips
I think Force Lightening is inherently different from other attacks because it is Directly using the Force against someone.
You are taking how the Universe Binds Together, and Unraveling it. The intermediary of using a lightsaber instead changes things.
When I got upset with the prequels, and wrote my own "Star Wars Lore", I also said there were "Jedi Priests", like yoda, that had unparalleled abilities with the Force, but could only maintain this connection by never harming a living thing.
On one hand, I can respect being a purist when it comes to force powers, especially where Plagueis, one of best books ever, explains the whole process behind Sith lightning. Still, lightning is cool and seeing more of it would be cool whether it be from Sith or anyone else
I think light side lightning would make some sense if it weren't deadly and painful but uncomfortable and knockdown.
I always pretty much ignored Electric Judgement and other quasi force lightning techniques… I remember the first time I heard of it from Wookiepedia I just didn’t like it, didn’t feel like it fit the Jedi, especially Plo.
I haven't read anything including electric judgement, but isn't Plo Koon's use of it pretty humane? I seem to remember it disabled his target with minimal damage or pain, and he felt no anger when he used it. Please clarify if I'm remembering it wrong, but if so, I think that's a pretty neat bit of lore. Jedi just using green lightning is dumb, though.
I totally agree with you, Force Lightning is way a Dark Side power regardless of who is using due to its nature. Dead on.
3:17 Christ, when did this happen? I must've memory-holed this scene.
In my understanding, electric judgement was like a rightous exorcism. The more evil the target was or the darkside the target tapped into, the more it damaged them.
Plo Koon was and electric judgement user, and arguably one of the purest jedi ever, but Yoda had forbidden him from teaching it other jedi due to it often being a gateway to darkside for people who took enjoyment in using it as a trigger happy weapon instead of a tool only to be used against the most evil targets.
Plo Koon was probably the paragon for what a jedi should be. He was wise, level headed, calm, kind, understanding, open to new ideas, one of the strongest force users and lightsaber duelists, and unrestricted by tradition. He was among the list of specific jedi Darth Sideous needed offworld in order to set his plan into motion.
Imagine Mace Windu confronting Sideous with Plo Koon by his side, a fellow jedi who could match Sideous in combat, resist his force scream, and fry him with lightning that grows stronger with the more evil the target is. Darth Sideous is one of the more evil beings of all time, making him the beat target you could ever hit with electric judgement. I think that's why Sideous wanted him offworld. Sideous doesn't fight fairly, so I doubt he would ever be willing fight someone that could kill him in a fair fight.
Hi Eckhart, can you please do a video on what you think the future of starwars is with the new triology annouced? Would love to hear your thoughts.
I hate how trivialized the lightning became. Lucas, EU authors, and Disney have all been guilty of this. In Return of the Jedi the Force had only been an enhancement. You could choke someone or throw things but this was still the user's intentions. Palpatine being able to use the Force purely as to cause suffering characterized how unsalvageably evil he was. That was a level of corruption we never even saw Vader do. It wasn't even an "attack" since Luke was defenseless. But all the other media ended up treating more like any sufficient dark side user gets generic electrical powers unlocked.
tbh, I always wished that there was a different elemental effect associated with light side usage in the same vein as Force Lightning, like a cleansing flame, or a chilling pulse of anti-energy/stillness, etc. Something that was obviously coded as being the same concept but utilizing purely light side philosophy and methodology.
As someone who never really got into legends content for various reasons, I am not overly familiar with precise justifications given for 'good' uses of Force lightning. However, I also think the concept of Electric Judgement or other light-side use of force lightning to be difficult to justify for many of the same reasons given. I could possibly be persuaded that someone like Mace-Windu, who lives in the gray while still serving the light, might be able to use Force Lightning against droids, or that there could be a light-side ion lightning that only affects electronics, but it would still need to be sold to me as more than just:
"Hey why do the bad guys get all the cool abilities? Why don't we clone some of them and give them to the good guys?"
I mean I think it's almost entirely and purely centered around the emotions felt that the power is drawn from. Sure much of the darksides abilities are centered around pure rage and fear, but it doesn't always have to be that way for some of it. An example that immediately came to mind was when Ashoka was being hunted by Trandoshan. Sure that one other padwan (Calista I think her name is) force chokes a trandoshian out of pretty much a rage fueled break down moment but Ashoka and the two others do it once or twice during one of their escapes and it was treated more like a basic force ability since it essentially is. It's the same sorta mentality behind gripping and pulling something or pushing it, a simple unemotional act. Just because we see sith do it out of anger doesn't mean its necessarily a dark side sorta thing. As was mentioned Saber throwing was once heavily considered a darksider thing to do which on its face is strange as it can have very non-evil utility. Hell in legends there was force version of pyrokensis. So really it's an emotion and intent spectrum that cannot be separated. And the argument that jedi have never had to kill or hurt someone is not a tenable one. I've always taken the jedi using the force for defense never attack to mean self defense or the defense of others, not taking an aggressors role, not just taking subjectively defensive action and making a combat encounter "one sided".
Love this comment, and I think it demonstrates the maturity that seeped into the EU works. I've been re reading the NJO and it is very interesting how Luke is guiding not only the order but dealing with the philosophical differences between Jacen and Anakin, where one almost has a pacifist attitude especially in regards to taking a life, and the other is using the force as more utility but still firmly in the tradition of the light.
I feel like force lightning should not be something that can be used by ANY darksider either. I feel like it needs to be a learned skill that can ONLY be achieved by being a fully evil darkside user. Like imagine Cal Kestis goes "dark" and can suddenly shoot lightning, that's where I have a problem. Someone like Maul would be a great candidate to use force lightning, but despite his evil nature and dedication to the darkside, he never learned the skill.
“Abilities aren’t inherently good or evil … it’s how you use them” - Kyle Katarn
In the book about the swarm war, when Luke used force lightening, the description he made about the effect of using force lightening was it felt like being exposed to extreme heat, that his skin felt like it was shrinking and puckering.
If we take KotoR mechanics into account, lightning is a dark side power, any Jedi can use it but it's easier the more dark side aligned you are and harder to use the more light side aligned you are
The one thing I always come to about the jedi being the generals is that an extremely massive army was created from nothing with specific brain augmentations to make them into perfect soldiers in regards to following commands... but was it possible to create the perfect leaders of them? You can only go so far up the chain of command before someone has to give all the orders, but at what point would you just be cloning a guy who could do as he pleases and then you risk those clones not liking all their brothers being cannon fodder and taking countless of the command following clones and starting his own army which could end up a domino effect and you lose your entire army to him, possibly even becoming a worse enemy... I'm sure you could add an augmentation to the clones not to let this happen but it still leaves the question of who should actually be in command of the troops? I would say absolutely not the youngerpadawan, maybe they can tag along and observe from safe areas and by their mmasters sides as they get older, and as they are closer to being ready to become knights they could join the ranks as privates and move up from there... as for the moment of creation of the army it seems like they had pretty much nobody to lead, you dont want to be like the Roman's and have the rich senators command their own so it might have been the best choice to have the peace keepers most familiar with wars become the generals, at least the most experienced of them and not be so reckless with it, create computer simulations for training and have only the best proven ones be the highest ranking generals and the rest be in lower commands or even simply just be soldiers until they can prove worthy of command. Anyway other than experienced peacekeepers powerful with the force... who else were they going to give command of a brand new massive army of millions to? Because you need a lot of them for such a massive army...
Yeah. The reasoning for why the Jedi shouldn't have been Generals is mainly that they shouldn't have participated in the war directly in the first place. Negotiating, helping innocent victims, enforcing anti-war crime rules..., but not choosing a side in what was fundamentally a stupid war over whether certain parts of the galaxy would be controlled by a corrupt "democracy" or a corrupt plutocracy. And a little bit of tactical "they could have done more good as commandos than as strategists." Having the Jedi more or less in control of how the war is fought, both on a strategic and a tactical level, was a really good thing - in fact, when the Jedi were removed, the war became so much darker that the two halves of the war are referred to as the "clone wars" instead of the "clone war."
"Come to the Dark Side. We have pop-tarts."
Well, pop-tarts make you fat, so 🤷♂️
How I justify force judgement is that it’s not variable in power and is always shot out in its most powerful form to kill quickly.
If there’s a large group threatening to overwhelm and kill a Jedi and everyone they are protecting; instead of a barrier or freeze until they get overwhelmed or something like a push or repulse not likely to kill or knockout a strong warrior like a vong; then force judgement can be used as a lethal last resort.
It should realistically take a clear mind and immense will, especially to not succumb to the dark from killing people with the force. It should take a toll on the Jedi from realizing they had no other choice and be very powerful to kill as fast as possible unlike force lightning that is purposefully variable to allow sith to torture people.
Also rey palpatine is a sith Lord because she has developed ability that manipulates the people around her to sacrifice themselves for her gain.
Plus she gains power the quick Way by stealing it using Force bonds and even with the training she had to do for the third movie, she gained too much power way too fast to be a Jedi.
The Jedi path is the slow path, while the sith path is the fast route.
The only way I could see a good form of force lightning is something that restrains or knocks out a person without killing them or even actually inflicting pain.
It could even be due to the Jedi using their willpower and restraint to use such a powerful yet oddly gentle move.
Maybe call it “Force Shackles” or “Force Binding” or something
I would get behind that idea. Like I said, I think a Jedi can use "darkside" powers, but it takes tremendous willpower and discipline to not let them overcome you. Like look when Luke chokes the piggies, its not out of anger or maliciousness, its merely to subdue them
If you want to get really technical, I think that Electric Judgment is that, and the thing discussed in this video is Emerald Lightning. But I don't know if every Star Wars author follows that rule; people who talk about Star Wars definitely don't.
I seem to remember electric judgment was explicitly non-lethal. I don’t remember where I got that from, but I’ve assumed it was like a force taser.
The end of the New Jedi Order series was so annoying. It completely walked back the idea the Yuuzhan Vong couldn't be touched by the Force. In Traitor, Jacen unleashes Force Lightning and, since the Vong were untouchable, all the Lightning struck Vergere (best NJO character btw). Then in Unifying Force, the Jedi casually Force Push and Lightning the Vong warriors.
Infuriating.